SURVIVING to the Merge! BVR Air to Air missile Evasion in DCS World

[@Specter0420]

You are incorrect at 11:45. The relative movement between you and the Su-27 does not drop to near zero and even if it did, the radar wouldn't have issue. When you move perpendicular to the radar beam, your aircraft has the same closure rate as the ground around you, the same Doppler-shift, relative to the attacking aircraft's radar.

[@ricrusso7347]

You are absolutely correct! I was wondering if anybody was going to say something about that too.

[@wikary4284]

True. This is a mistake. But also, Doppler shift goes to zero at zero relative velocity. Like when you match speed with an object you chase. You definitely loose lock this way in the F-14.

[@qdrummer21]

@@wikary4284 However, he cranked into the SU27 and not away. That means the aircrafts speeds are added to one another, not subtracted. So the closure speed will only increase, not decrease to zero. He would need to crank away from the SU27 to decrease the closure velocity towards zero.

[@wikary4284]

@@qdrummer21 True. I was talking in the abstract. Here it's a clear mistake of Spud.

[@crew-rest]

Awesome video! Thank you for the detailed information, personal take and experience and very nice demonstrations. I learned a lot and can't wait for plenty more like it to come!

[@Spudknocker]

I am so glad you liked it and got something out of it!

[@MCF2233]

Beam riding missiles and Semi-Active Radar Homing missiles are very different. Beam riders stay within a beam of some sort of energy going from the mothership radar to the target to tell where they need to go. Semi-active Radar Homing missiles use a seeker that looks for the reflection of the mothership's radar off of the target to see where the target is, then an onboard computer calculates the guidance data based off of that.

[@yes-rq4dg]

Thanks Spud, BVR is really something im behind in since i cant play on mulitplayer but im gonna try these tactics out in a mission. Please oh please keep making tutorials like this, so much better at explaining things not just in a way of how it works but also how to achieve things. Really helpful Also a tomcat always makes a video better ;)

[@ChrisGilcher]

Hey, glad you made it towards Odorsbonkazees! ;)

[@foxalfa83]

Nice video, just a note, Beam riding missiles are a different guidance mode than SARH... Beam rider missiles only try to stay in the middle of the beam radar is projecting, so are effective only against very low maneuvering targets since the missile isn't aware of target motion or range. Only early A2A missiles were beam riders like RS-2.

[@aussiegta8267]

RBS 70 SAM system in service now is a Beam Rider

[@AvengerBB1]

God I can't wait until I get my new throttle tomorrow. Going to have to try some of these out to break it and my new rudder pedals in!

[@komsomolac]

I was always wondering how RWR can discern between different types of aircraft that use the same type of radar. Thank you for clearing this up!

[@projectds3evo]

What a great video! I'm a newby in DCS and you helped me quite a lot! My dream is to fly the tomcat. But I'm very far from that. Thank you once more

[@alexanderryan-jones600]

SD-10 section is actually at 35:05

[@schweizerluchs7146]

👏

[@shaheen-1]

Errr no. I don't know if your oversimplifying it for educational purposes but the relative movement between you and the su27 does NOT drop to zero. The Su27 is still moving towards you with its own speed relative to the ground. What does drop nearly to zero is your speed relative to the ground from the perspective of the Su27 meaning its radar can no longer tell you apart from the ground which is moving towards the su27 at its own speed at all times.

[@Jaznthree]

You know it's a good office when it fly's. Thank you great video.

[@gkourv]

Thumbs up for Spooky's excellent livery!

[@burtpilon1735]

Fantastic man thx and great shot with the Tomcat. How do you get that green control box up please sir.

[@ThroteCHOP]

I've been doing very similar research (?) with an F/A-18 vs Excellent AI. I've found that a Hornet at 25k vs a Su-27 carrying R-27ER's can remain hot to the threat all the way up to bandit shots, defend 45° at .85 mach in the opposite direction of the Bandits crank (I've actually been seeing cranks out of my Excellent AI when I remain hot to the threat) and defeat an initial shot without ever maneuvering more than 45° away from the bandit. Definitely makes it easier to go offensive and hopefully negate any follow on shots from the Bandit.

[@vondenzelmann6044]

I wouldn't say about flight model, but electronics of the Russian missiles are pure cr*p. Most of the time you don't need any counter-measures (except for R-73). Notching is really hard word to use for anything that you do against these missiles. I'm deeply convinced that they've modeled the missile and radar capability by some (bad) random numbers and throwing a dice. On the other hand... AIM-120 is way too powerful in the electronics dept. at least by the historical accounts by USAF pilots themselves in 1999. F-15C vs Yugoslavian MiG-29 (with radar and RWR malfunction) in which PK was 33% and that is by keeping in mind that several MiG-29 were by mistake shot down by friendly fire SAM. I'm aware that flight model is great and based on wind tunnel results etc. but as everyone can assume, electronics that you need to simulate are still blackbox but that didn't stop ED to trash non-USA missiles and put AMRAAM several bars above any other missile in DCS (Jeff's missiles are still unkown to me). When you see AMRAAM launched at you, you better be giving your best showtime each single time unless you want to be fried because you will unless you really employ notching to fullest of it's meaning and throw some Ju-Ju curse on it, just in case. One of the surviving MiG-29A from that time evaided 5 AMRAAMs and is still flying today.

[@freddarau]

@@vondenzelmann6044 I know I'm a year late, but Russian missiles suck ass currently both in real life and game. there isn't the capable Russian missile comparatively to the amraam or any European counterparts. the only one that's of note is the r37, and that's a good missile but they can't produce many of them since they each cost 1 mil.

[@JoachimMalling]

Does the radar in any plane detect missile type or how should we know what technique to use if we aren't sure what missiles the enemy planes is carrying?

[@PolarBearSeal]

I really enjoyed this. Thank you so much for these tutorials. Hope you'll fly a Jeff too in the next tutorial!

[@SPFLDAngler]

48:25 "SURVIVING to the Merge!" ..... riiiight.. Thanks for the advice. I think I'll learn from someone else.

[@GM-fh5jp]

Great video mate, thanks for posting.

[@sheevpalpatine80]

Surviving to the merge 101: 1. Don't get caught looking for idols.. 2. Make social bonds. 3. Be useful at camp. 4. Be useful in challenges, but not *too* useful or you will be targeted as an individual immunity challenge threat. ...oh wait.

[@zooweemama911]

Ah yes, our great emperor, I will use these tactics to crush the fledgling rebellion. Thank you for your dedication to the galaxy, choose me as your next apprentice.

[@magsmafia]

Good vid Spud, thanks for info and time you put into your videos!

[@Spudknocker]

Neil Mags no problem dude I hope it helps you out!

[@phil73805]

Excellent video! Thank you!

[@mbowski]

Hey Spud. Really love the channel. Learning a lot from your videos. I'm a WW2 guy and don't know a lot about BVR tactics. Would like to start flying moden jets. Could you do a video implementing real scenario tactics. I mean, combine defensive and offensive using the same scenarios.

[@fxhockeyrocks2]

Its alot of the same tactics if your flying spits and typhoons when it comes to the guns part anyways

[@freemandiy]

Very useful, thank you so much. Especially for the SD10 spam

[@Spudknocker]

Glad it was helpful!

[@rpersen]

This is just amazing, thank you!!

[@handsomechocolatebar276]

Great content. Thanks dude

[@harris8205]

thanks very detailed tut!

[@lesrae1]

Very useful for this rookie, many thanks :)

[@Spudknocker]

Glad you like it!

[@rev8947]

One thing for your vids that might help is putting on Russian icons. This changes f10 icons from the semi-circles that don't show heading well to other ones that I find to show the heading of aircraft much better, and once the new symbols are learnt, you can tell the type of aircraft your looking at.

[@DemonLordGamingAC0]

2:32 and except the fact that they start dumping countermeasures the instant you fire a missile (even if TWS or smokeless or many miles out of visual range)

[@jamielonsdale3018]

51:30 This is not the ideal way to defeat a forward-aspect IR missile. While your method is effective at defeating one missile, you bleed too much energy due to the high radius of the roll. A low-radius barrel roll timed well is the most effective method to both dodge the missile and retain enough energy to do it again.

[@SPFLDAngler]

Considering a few minutes before that he got hit by a missile, AND left it in the video. I don't think anyone should follow his advice.

[@derek7968]

Great video!

[@Phoenixmaster131]

4:02 what?!?! How does it come, that Jester is actively slewing the radar to the right and left with the enemy? Is this new and only in the beta or did I always make something wrong`? For me it is always dead center...

[@Spudknocker]

TWS Auto is a new mode for jester

[@StoneCoolds]

Only play the beta servers, is where the pros hunt and eat cookies ^.^

[@ilejovcevski79]

Yep, latest open beta introduced TWS Auto, now we can both fire Fox 3 and crank without a human RIO.

[@RJFlyer]

40:27 I wasnt aware that radar missles dont like flares...

[@ricrusso7347]

Did he ever drop his drop tanks? I don't think he ever did. I get he wants to use all of that fuel in the tanks but once you go defensive and before the start of the cranking maneuvers your going to want to drop those tanks!

[@ilejovcevski79]

It depends. If you are really tight around your neck yes. But especially in the F-14, ditching the tanks is a last resort.

[@Gamidia]

Amazing video, amazing channel!

[@dalienie]

Just so useful!

[@Kraken9911]

Generally speaking the first crank for simplicity should be gimbal limit to limit horizontally? Would take time trying to think about heading degrees other than general direction of bandit for SA.

[@reload54]

I know this video is old but was wondering what settings you use for Chaff/Flares as I run out super fast

[@davehaag8175]

Great video...AZZZ Always!!!!

[@Spudknocker]

dave haag haha thank you! I’m glad you liked it!

[@magicsharkwizard4577]

Yeah nice. I prefer the Jeffs with only two Sd's so I don't get shot down.

[@Spudknocker]

Lol yes I agree haha they are rather pesky

[@mirandaab972]

As long as you can defeat the Phoenix, you can defeat that Chinese rocket

[@monkman911]

Great video Spud, I always enjoy and learn from your tutorials. How do you get the missiles to show up as dots so that you can visually track them? Thank you in advance!

[@sloppydog4831]

Cool video. Very informative.

[@johnnybravo5758]

Are you kidding me! Yes VF-111 Sundowners paint scheme! Omar still lives!

[@navard1778]

Fantastic video

[@VisualBasic6]

Why is there an audio cut around 1:15 ?

[@ilejovcevski79]

One final note Spud, blowing out the blowers helps as well, you know what i mean ;D

[@ericandi]

Does the F/A-18C have a joint helmet mounted cueing system like the F-16? If not, it would make a great mod for the F/A-18C. I wish I knew how to code.

[@muttleyjones2]

Yes it does in real life and in DCS.

[@lunar_angel3482]

I think I understand: cranking = breaking the missile’s ankles

[@ronfish7477]

Hi. Awesome video. Hope I don't run into any JF-17s. My F/A-18 has a recurring problem with one of the main gear doors and the nose gear door blown off. I cannot find any way to fix this in the manual. DCS give no help as they say they cannot answer in game questions. Any ideas? I watched your raid on the airbase leading a bunch of F/A-18 pilots and that is my ambition, but I can't figure out this problem.

[@ShadowGJ]

I'm overall just a beginner, but isn't it important to also fire a counter-offensive missile of your own to force the attacker into going defensive to some extent? It feels sub-optimal to go full defensive right away while letting the enemy sip his tea and prepare a follow-up shot while you sweat and pull Gs. Even if your counter-offensive launch is hasty, it should maybe delay follow-up shots a bit, enabling you to more easily keep the bandit on his toes after trashing the first enemy missile.

[@Raven-sv4es]

Nice and excellent Video. Keep it up

[@Spudknocker]

thanks man

[@gregpruitt1647]

Do I need a 4k or 1440 monitor to see a missile dot in the sky like you are seeing?

[@pierrelofinusound3020]

Excellent ! one question though....Those Chinese SD10 are not combat proven IRL so how sure are the intel about these specs ?

[@Spudknocker]

Hey guys! This guide should give you all the tools you need to effectively evade Air to Air missiles in a BVR Engagement! It is a long one so use the timestamps below if you need to skip around! Semi-Active Radar Guided Missile Evasion - 0:55 AIM-120C Active Radar Guided Missile Evasion - 16:37 SD-10 Active Radar Guided Missile Evasion - 35:00 Forward Aspect IR Guided Missile Evasion - 49:08 If you like this content please consider supporting us on Patreon! Every bit helps keep the channel goin' and growin'! www.patreon.com/Spudknocker

[@ericandi]

Why don’t we get RWR indicators in multiplayer? Isn’t the RWR real equipment in these fighter jets?

[@chazflyz]

Which aircraft? If you start from a cold and dark cockpit, and forget to turn on the RWR, you will never see or hear the warning indications.

[@talks7795]

how much chaff did you release each time? what's your countermeasure setting?

[@tonicarrera9647]

Another great useful video. One question, what is a pilot snipe?

[@XCougar85X]

Very nice video. Question how do you softlock in the F-18? Not with the TDC down?

[@muttleyjones2]

You lock once while in TWS mode, if you lock twice it switches to a STT lock.

[@thedude5-6]

Those sd10 missiles are no joke

[@sadfunda]

tacview would be nice but it literally halves your fps (r5 1600 gtx 1060, usual 60-80fps with tac its barely 30 sometimes)

[@lexmatthewtheurbanavenger8538]

I plan on going to the recruiting office and become a naval aviator

[@firmaneffendi2801]

Hey Spud, can you make a tutorial of BVR SARH vs ARH, since new 120C somehow trashing the red side (except jeff) or trashing the legacy Flanker (Russian 27 not a J-11), lately I've been having some badluck on those old birds Maybe a 27S vs 16C new 120C will be a great fight :)

[@paulordbm]

I need to know: what label mod are you using? I like the minimalist labels (to some extent) but the instant IFF because of the blue/red color is something I'd like to have the option to remove. Thanks!

[@abaddon3744]

Should be an option to just remove them - Shift + F10

[@FlyleapStudios]

In this section I'll be teaching you how to deal with SD-10's. First step: Get blown up.

[@MrChatoh]

Awesome video and explanations. But one thing that catches my attention most is how easily you/i could see the bandit and his missiles in plain view out of a considerable range whereas in most of the times i'm on BVR i cant really see any of them until they're like 5 or less NM from me... Idk wether i'm just blind or there is any Aliasing issue or bad resolution (16:10 aspect ratio). Actually i never managed to see a radar missile coming at me with internal view, even after it lost his lock :s

[@MrChatoh]

I also noticed that there's apparently a white dot below enemy missiles, specially at 48:26... Is that some sort of label or editing?

[@ytdlder]

Yeah, I'd like to know that too; as no one replied to you, that's probably never gonna happen 😞 I too have "dots" as label, but it's only blue/red at very close distance. It's not enough to see a far away jet or a missile...

[@emtom5080]

~12:00 yo wtf? Relative speed dropping to 0? You were closing to the enemy, but at an angle, and turned towards him, that increased relative speed! How it could drop to 0? That doesn’t make any sense. Described by you mechanics sounds like you could just fly straight to the enemy and it won’t lock you. Isn’t the silence of rwr caused by its own limitation, as it can’t(?) look down? And that happened while you were turning, showing the planes belly to the missile.

[@abaddon3744]

Great video, but I’m a little confused - in the video you say during Semi-active/active radar missiles that they are being fooled by flares, but since they don’t use IR guidance systems… How would they be fooled by flares?

[@SPFLDAngler]

He misspoke. He does that a lot in this video.

[@chikokishi7030]

why silence at 1:20?

[@jungletroll3844]

probably some form of censorship forced by some company for whatever reason

[@user-xo5zh9xb5b]

Aim-54 not evadable? :D

[@Parabueto]

Just turn cold at 35NM at or above 30k. An AIM 120 from a F-16 in SAM is actually the scariest thing in BVR right now. The AIM 54 is much more draggy than the 120 so it's actually less dangerous at long ranges and high altitude.

[@Thumper770]

How can chaff throw off a 120 before it goes pitbull? It's not being guided by the seeker head. It's being guided by the radar in your plane ( Riding the Beam ). The chaff would have to spoof the radar to throw the missile off.........right? So, dumping chaff before a 120 goes pitbull is just wasting chaff.

[@armsupwithlawrence]

The JF 17s stoopid SD10 brought me here -,-

[@iuriius]

32:20 Let me help you --- Or Joe Nick E Ze

[@278utkarsh]

Someone please help me with SD10 ranges at all altitudes.

[@278utkarsh]

SD10 burnout time ??

[@yavok]

You are a god!

[@johnnybravo5758]

Hey , not trying to make fun but your way badass, slow down on the caffeine. Hey F-14's excite me too but please throttle back a bit so us newbys can keep up.

[@speedeemee]

Why do AI tend to pop airbreak after launch?

[@robkelman4704]

I can't avoid the ground most of the time. We'll see about missiles... Great vid though.

[@neovo903]

I actually won a BVR fight with a tomcat in the Jeff, I hit him with a 61 mile sd10, the shot was legendary

[@colderwar]

The Jeff and it's missiles in DCS are a complete work of fiction. Like the Communist Chinese and the Pakistani's are going to provide honest data about the jets capabilities...

[@neovo903]

@@colderwar do you have the jeff? Edit: Here's a few stats on that launch 99.5km (61.8 freedom units) shot missile peaked at 4.65 mach at 20,210m (66305 ft) and hit going 3.01 mach I was at about 35k ft and mach 1 when I fired, I manually lofted the missile 12°

[@Rahj2001]

@@neovo903 what the hell is The Jeff???

[@neovo903]

@@Rahj2001 JF-17 Thunder www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/thunder/

[@Spudknocker]

Anglo Spanish Racing I dunno man, it’s a pretty large missile it’s like like halfway between the Sparrow and AMRAAM size wise, even with crappy electronics a big enough rocket motor will make it get up and go. Just look at the R-27’s they go fast as crap but have terrible tracking

[@FalcoGer]

If your goal was to kill that jf17 to protect some asset you just failed by turning cold and going defensive. You should put him on the defensive, not let him hunt you all across the persian gulf. Your chance of killing him at this point is practically 0 while he can take all the time he wants, monitoring your aspect and as soon as you try and turn around give you another missile to deal with, fulfilling whatever mission he has.

[@StoneCoolds]

Spudnocker you may be the first one i see doing a loop dodge maneuver, to evade missiles in close range I learnes that one back in the days of Lock On, with the mig-29 and i still use it, is a lot more effective and looks amazing from the enemies prespective hehehe It also works at 10 and 2 o'clock, you can just do the loop, or crak towards the enemy and in a same fluid movemt you start the loop, but if you do it a second later you are dead lol

[@HotaruZoku]

So with competent pilots, BVR missiles are basically...grenades. You throw them out to dislodge an enemy without ever expecting it to get a kill. Huh. Ah well.

[@AIRWARFAREGROUP]

OMG drop tanks, oh I forgot...it’s a video game. Spudknocker, come by Tactical DCS sometime to chat tactics sometime bud!

[@new_comment]

thanks for this vid, I don't know what to do in BVR the looks are all thats going for the f-14 now, after the update that destroyed the flight model.

[@twisted4872]

Nice

[@matka5130]

thx

[@celricaviation]

Thanks for the great video - Problem is - in multiplayer on most servers you do not have the option to look on the f10 map from where exactly the missile is coming or when it is launched :/ But the manouvers you show are really great! Thank you so much - I love your vid‘s

[@ParasFtl]

learning because just in case ...

[@melvynarmstead7394]

Hey peoples! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Sooooo I'm looking for help to get me into the DCS world....I'm starting completely cold! I'm looking to pay for someone in the New Jersey area to help me recommend a HOTAS, computer, VR and help me download DCS and bind the game controls to the HOTAS... I'm not advanced computer savy so I don't feel like 2 learnin curves!....got a decent budget so this could be a good project for someone! Hit me up of you can help!

[@FalcoGer]

The radar explanation wasn't quite on point. The way it works is the radar has to filter out the ground. It keeps track of aircraft with a speed gate. The reflected radar energy is red shifted or blue shifted by the moving target and then recombined with the emitted frequency, which gives a lower frequency. Measuring that frequency gives the target's speed. Imagine the radar seeing a spectrum from blue to red, with green being 0 speed. Anything coming towards it is blue, anything flying away is red. The entire ground would be a solid block of green. If you move perpendicular to the radar, then you become green as well as you have 0 closure speed, or more accurately the same closure speed as the ground behind you. This tactic also helps with chaff because if you are above the enemy aircraft you will still be a green target in front of a non reflective sky (say black from the radar's point of view). Of course chaff will very quickly loose all speed once it's launched, showing green. If you're still head on with the enemy or flying away, chaff will still be disregarded by the radar as you are clearly the moving target. There was a really good video explaining this, but I can't find it anymore.

[@Nathanx42]

yeah amraams made me quit dcs multiplayer from how broken they are

[@utley]

ordizbonkadizzy

[@PolarBearSeal]

Still waiting for part 2. :[

[@Empinada]

You just spent 56 minutes to explain notching and f-pole and didn't even manage to fully explain two topics that should take ten minutes apiece. Also, who tf runs from an sd-10 at 50nm? They might be fast off the rail but they fly like bricks and slow down quickly when you force them to maneuver. Using a proper f-pole above mach 1 you should almost always be able to get your own missile off at around 26nm with enough time for your missile to go active before being forced defensive.

[@dutchholland6928]

damn SD-10s......

[@Bleideris0]

Too complicated, but at least you can fly in jets

[@itialianpasta]

Annoying asf keyboard