Suzuka's First Proposal Was Nuts | SouthPawRacer's Soapbox

Information in this video was adapted from the following sources:
the-fastlane.co.uk/racingcircu...
www.racingcircuits.info/asia/...
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[@NicolasBeaulieuQc]

The best proposal is to continue this series.

[@ThePhoenixWylde]

A fun series of "Proposed" race circuits in a sim sounds like a blast. Especially that Silverstone layout with the banked Club section, same goes with some of the proposals for Monza.

[@drewgalbraith4499]

ThePhoenixWylde even the OG monza layout is insane by today’s standards

[@Reydriel]

@@drewgalbraith4499 It's downright suicidal to drive on at any respectable speed lol

[@MrMichkov]

Banked Club? From when is this proposal before or after the big rebuild in the early 90s?

[@ThePhoenixWylde]

@@MrMichkov On the "Talking Motorsports" facebook page, in the "Stalled" episode of Silverstone, it was a proposed layout thought of around 2002, so after the big early 90s rebuild, one of the first to think about moving the pits, to where they are now and making club the final corner, due to the seemingly never ending talk of "Is Silverstone about to drop off the F1 Calendar?" Though it was the "Only" good corner change of that layout.

[@mitchell-wallisforce7859]

@@drewgalbraith4499 OG Monza Combined was amazing to drive on PCars 2. Replays were fucked, and the physics were not very enjoyable, but holy moly, the sight of a Group 7 sportscar going over the top of a bridge while a GT car goes through the tunnel before present-day Ascari is a hell of a trip. I honestly wish it all survived to the present day - wow factor aside, I don't actually think that improving the safety standards would necessarily be THAT hard, given the safety of modern ovals AND road courses. Slightly wider front straight to accommodate the, uh, dual straights, a less bowl-like shape for the banking with less banking in general, a SAFER barrier up top and a bit more room on the apron at the bottom and I could see the Monza Combined circuit being a feasible addition to the facility. I'm also biased because....truth be told, Monza mostly bores the $hit outta me.

[@Jimmy_Broadbent]

Yo can we get this as an AC mod?

[@NicolasBeaulieuQc]

Yeah, pls

[@barisaxmax]

JIMBO WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE

[@JT-dv7nb]

Max Beauregard JIMBO is always here

[@The-D33J]

@@barisaxmax He's here to get his dad a beer

[@christianneilanthonywico9874]

OH FECK YES

[@JayOhPeee]

why his hair on upside down lol

[@SouthPawRacer]

it migrated south for an eternal winter

[@nickhargrave6308]

Everything’s upside down in Australia

[@TotoDG]

Just like Matthew Santoro. Funny thing is, he’s Canadian, so it _would_ have migrated south.

[@andre_star7776]

@@SouthPawRacer Things are so different nowadays

[@TotoDG]

Conspiracy theory: he’s _actually_ sitting on a soapbox.

[@Deaconhall]

Would really like this to continue as a series, these are fun to watch

[@82tonypr]

Someone needs to make All versions for sim racing. They all seem so interesting. Suzuka is in general.

[@D_4_N_]

you've made me consider teaching myself to model racetracks for racing sims. i've never even owned a racing sim, but i really want to give people an opportunity to race on that initial Hugenholz draft with the 3 crossovers.

[@82tonypr]

Please do! I would love to drive this!

[@alaeriia01]

Screw that, give us MORE crossovers. How about a giant helix of a left-hander that takes the form of a half-hitch/pretzel?

[@TenorCantusFirmus]

Never heard about John Hugenholtz before, but it seemed to definitely be the anti-Tilke and that's a reason to deeply respect him.

[@uhlnd-tnny2983]

He was also known as Hans Hugenholtz

[@THENAMEISQUICKMAN]

I love track designers who are just happy to go a bit mad.

[@timirving190]

i knew the subs would roll in once the content ramped up again. loving it

[@annadelsiena]

Keep 'em coming! Would love to drive that 1st rendition, gives me the feeling of one of those PS1 racing game bonus tracks that just go nuts with bridges

[@gabem.5242]

Hugenholtz and Honda: "Alright, we have a germ of an idea, but let's use a 3D model of the area to see if we can do it and if we can improve on it." Tilke: "What? Elevations? Topographic clues? CAROUSSELS? HERESY! FETCH ME A COMPASS AND A RULER, I NEED MY MEANINGLESS 90-DEGREE BENDS!"

[@jomillen5131]

Ok, he wasn't that bad

[@RACECAR]

Blame the FIA Grade 1 regs for the designs we constantly get. In short: you want to host F1, you must be as sterile and lifeless as possible with as many meaningless chicanes and 90 degree bends as demanded or determined by the paddock space (Bar a few exceptions).

[@Quintinohthree]

@@RACECAR Yeah, um, Zandvoort says you're wrong.

[@Eeter26]

Istanbul park? Sepang? He makes good tracks, the problem is what he has to work with. There’s pretty much no way to redesign yas marina into a good track. He just did the best he could with the location he was given.

[@illdeletethismusic]

@@Quintinohthree Zandvoort is a renovation of an existing track, with specific exemptions from the design rules if you want to argue about tracks that were designed from scratch and following the rules, you can say that Istanbul Park and Circuit of the Americas are good creations, however placed along tons of garbage along the lines of Abu Dhabi and Sochi

[@tharbeapancake]

One of my top 3 tracks in the world alongside imola and bathurst!! Really enjoyed this one! Love from southern california 💞

[@shauncaratozzolo3803]

Nothing beats the current Suzuka, basic, fun and has a mix of everything

[@bmoney2011]

Of all the people who deserve more than 10k subs, it's you Rhys. You rock. I know, I know...the whole "I only upload once every Harvest Moon"...but seriously, you are most deserving of this milestone! Enjoy your life and we'll all be here, ready and waiting for your next (mis)adventure in the sim racing world!

[@alaeriia01]

I still want a track that topologically is a knot.

[@stefanosrigopoulos8868]

Found that channel just yesterday and omg, i ve been addicted. You re the absolute best, keep it up!

[@484berkshire]

Hugenholtz's first design is probably my favorite. I'd love to see modern racecars trying to negotiate that 1st hairpin. It just seems so absurdly tight and I can imagine so many track-blocking accidents similar to what we get at Macau.

[@alvarosouviron1674]

I love these new circuit history videos. Cant wait to watch more of them. Keep up the good work!!!

[@raffriff42]

Love the editing on this.

[@viggojrndale6956]

If they maked the first idea with 3 crossovers the legendary crash in the chicane between senna and prost would not happen

[@paolostrada93]

Loving the deluge of content right now dude keep it up

[@Alex_Mac_]

These videos are great, glad to see more content out of this channel. That downhill uphill carousel would be the interesting one in my opinion.

[@samstratten1331]

Great work as usual mate.

[@weakhandshake]

I’m so glad that you are making videos on a regular basis again

[@1RacerXer]

Absolutely love these!

[@benjaminwildeaudio]

Really nicely presented and edited!

[@AdrienMinot]

Next one : Mexico ! There's a lot to say... 👌😉

[@drunk3n_m0nk12]

Very much enjoyed! Thank you sir.

[@jsikokotvisto]

Please make more videos like this. I really love them and even i learn something. Silverstone or Monza might be a good idea on this type of video.

[@jkarhiaho]

Didn't expect seeing the name of my local race track (Ahvenisto) in the video. It's definitely an interesting track!

[@CountFisco]

Holy shit you're already at 12.1k? Great to see your channel finally get what it deserves man.

[@normalviewer740]

You’re channel is awesome! Please don’t let up, channel growth can explode if you continue regular upload and interact with viewers. I’m heading to COTA in a few weeks and am excited for something so amazing! Hope to see more of your content!

[@apexgt4]

I like this new series!! Keep it up unless you need a break lol

[@tdyerwestfield]

I really enjoy these videos.

[@BlackPawn14]

Fun fact about Hugenholtz designs: He had been playing around with the concept of "stadium" sections, with slow corners near large grandstands, well before Tilke. His bread-and-butter, however, seemed to be putting slow corners behind the pits, within sight of the fans at the start-finish grandstands. Examples being the Hockenheim Motodrom, and Jarama's Turn 4. Zandvoort's Turn 4 (which is actually named after him) also follows this trope, although he wasn't actually in charge of that design. Apparently, he had that in mind for Suzuka for a while, hence the bizarre hairpin in the early versions of the design. I guess he eventually decided it made the circuit too complicatd, so he settled down with the esses instead.

[@Legend13CNS]

I love these proposed circuit videos so far! I'd be interested to see one on Autopolis if possible since they ended up with such an interesting layout.

[@ovt8454]

Loved it. Also, please bring back super serious track guides

[@yindyamarra]

I just found this channel, love it

[@88ights]

ahhhhhh glad you're back.

[@josephbourgeois9058]

Your content is super duper duper duper good. More plz!

[@grandicellichannel]

*PLEASE, CONTINUE THIS SERIES!!*

[@nattiedraws]

we need more of these, more

[@katkatkatomg]

Damn upload crazy!! im lovin it

[@dom_wings]

Now that's what you call a figure of triple eight track

[@NINj49989]

Really enjoy this series, please keep them coming! Another really interesting track would definitely be Fuji Speedway, which was originally going to be a 4km banked Speedway circuit for Japanese NASCAR races. Add a couple changes, bish bash bosh, we have our current course.

[@eduardoarrudaalvim6220]

This became one of my favourite channels quickly.......

[@tomreid15]

Love your vids

[@fac_jumanji8662]

Congrats on 12000 subs

[@MrValtsku98]

Great video! Ended up going trough some other videos too. Quality content, subscibed.

[@UzzyT.]

Great video, I’m glad you learnt your right from your left!

[@potatopotato5354]

This was great. Agree with many other commenters that given the limited number of tracks with lots of proposals, maybe you could also cover changes to circuits. Maybe chuck in some satellite images, even Google Street view for some circuits that use real roads. I love this shit

[@Ralyertheonly]

The stadium part of the second layout proposal looks great. The first proposal is so crazy, the first trun with a bridge ... A deadly idea

[@maxxeriomin]

Thank you for the video. Actual design is ok, most of the corners and their combinations are unique. I'd like to see some modifications in chicane area, maybe wider approach and tighten entry.

[@Clyman974]

New sub here, just wanted to telle you that you remind me of the EverydayAstronaut, except you're into sim. Great channel by the way, can't wait to see you hit 100k sub and more 👌

[@MrRofl131]

Suzuka needs to be left exactly as it is, I love it this way

[@CBadger]

What about Interlagos and the changes throughout the decades as a suggestion for the next video? That one has changed a huge amount since its inception.

[@Quintinohthree]

The track has had two layouts. Almost entirely incomparable layouts, sure, but only two of them, the only changes between the major updates have been to pit lane and to sections of track that are used as alternative layouts.

[@bubblefroggy1]

Thanks for the very informative video!! Suzuka as it is now is indeed a very coherent and enjoyable track. The dangerousness of that "straight" back to the "start" in the "three bridges" version!!! With an old Spa-style "Masta" kink maybe? ... and why not a good old Nordschleife-like jump as well for good measure... so people can really have something to gape at from the top of the Ferris wheel.

[@F1Legend33]

Suzuka is my favorite circuit of all and I view it as the ultimate f1 track

[@granturismorobert8886]

The Spoon corner's past iterations are madness

[@jeffreytenthije]

4:52 This is what you get when you ask a new person to racing to draw the circuit after being it shown once

[@adrianpenatesuarez1718]

When does this Mario Kart DLC get released?

[@fordtindleton6057]

I stg southpawracer is literally the most underrated racing youtuber on the whole planet

[@sagetk2981]

When I saw the second proposed layout I wanted to faint from pure joy

[@petouser]

7:22 I really like the way they designed 130R. Looks really challenging, even for F1. Even so is the approach towards the hairpin.

[@SYGRRazza999]

Please do more Japanese circuits as they have a easy top 10 circuits that are phenomenal to drive that apart from Suzuka, Fuji, Twin Ring Motegi and Tsukuba, no one knows about. And I think they deserve more recognition.

[@haryosoo]

What did I just miss... I really like this series a lot. Got a bit of an idea here: how 'bout revealing some of the boring tracks' proposals (like Sochi or Yas Marina)? What if those tracks had really some unfulfilled potential to be good? BTW I also miss ur super serious track guide series, maybe Yeongam next?

[@blackflagqwerty]

Suzuka is one of the great classic racetracks I hope no one ever fucks with the design!

[@sadmanh0]

the last one just before official old Suzuka is my favourite

[@Tauva]

This series is great. Just race track content in general is great anyway.

[@richard92251]

As a Ferrari Fan I can only say: there is no need for the chicane or the Esses. Just go straight through, it’s way more fun 😂

[@germanenglishengineer2054]

Well, if you want to see 230 miles an hour for the first corner, I guess that could be arranged.

[@TheLaXandro]

Would be cool to have some of those prototype tracks recreated in simulators. The third design (after the tri-bridge) looks very fun.

[@titusstanding5993]

Now they need to make this into a circuit on racing games

[@AntTheMeepasaur]

I actually quite like the first half of that second proposal, though it falls apart a little after the esses. I wouldn't really have many complaints if that first half made it to the final design. It doesn't do enough to make me prefer it over what we got though (and besides, that section looks more suitable if it were designed a decade or two later rather than the early 60's). I've also got a couple of suggestions. The first is that when you do the individual overlays, you compare the proposal to the original layout and not the current one, as it gives a better representation of how the proposals transformed over time to create the final design. The second is that maybe for future videos like this, you look at how a particular track's layout has transformed over the years rather than just the proposals, because there aren't too many tracks that have the number of proposals that Spa and Suzuka have (Birmingham and the Nurburgring GP-Strecke are the only ones that to mind). Tracks like Le Mans, Monza, Silverstone and Sebring have changed dramatically over the years and I think that would be very interesting to look at.

[@manuelgrothe608]

Formula One and WEC should Race at Mobility Resort Motegi for the Japanese Grand Prix while MotoGP revs up at Suzuka Circuit

[@r.l.7852]

so funny and informative... great..

[@veronviper06]

I kinda wanna do that first one (the original concept) and the triple crossover

[@elmurcis1]

That 1st design seems to be kind of extreme but same time has to go with cars at that time (design is based on something and that something most likely is what is outside of window at current time with maybe some slight increase in speed but not -10 s per lap) and that could actually be some real fun (and challenge for engine with that loong flat-out part) with much lower downforce/grip cars.

[@liamgbooth]

If you're taking suggestions was there any previous proposals to the Nordschleife? Or on the other end of the likeable scale, the Autódromo Juan y Oscar Gálvez in Buenos Aires? Great upload 👍

[@nikogamingadvanced6478]

If you connect the two long straights on the first design, it makes Auvs

[@MrFungi]

Have you ever looked into Road America for wacky proposals? It's a fast paced track and looks like it might have had some crazy rough designs at first.

[@puthsicatsinananpat6628]

Damn, those end section though.

[@ilikecakeandbiscuits]

The old versions still look a lot more flowing than a new Tilke monstrosity

[@RoyalMela]

Ahvenisto is the Suzuka of Europe. Shorter, slower, but just as FUN!

[@rtrojosh]

"the hond and the hoog went to work.." *immediate regret*

[@hunterwithashblossom2131]

*Circuits with threatening auras*

[@PescaraProductions]

Whats the betting that 1st design of Hugenholtz's was meant to have mental turn 1 banking like Fuji once had

[@bowlchamps37]

The hairpin as well as the S curves in sector one were a direct result of Mika Hondas (the mother of Soichiro) collection of hairpins and addiction to them (older hairpins were straight on one side and had 3 curves on the other side). Since Japanese like to incorporate sth personal into sth that should outlast his and their life, it is believed that he "ordered" those parts of the track to be there. I don´t speak Dutch but German which is quite similar, so I understood 80% of the story.

[@malikemad4]

Hey I love your videos dude keep doing what you're doing , and btw i noticed your comedy is similar to RCR's did he inspire you in any way ?

[@s2korpionic]

The first one. I like the first one. I really do. So wacky. And keep the rice fields. Adds charm.

[@GarkKahn]

Can you make a video about potrero de los funes or interlagos please?

[@alexandrepohlmann7490]

I hope you try Interlagos... because... I mean... so many changes in almost 100 years!

[@THEDonnyB]

Iracing should make some tracks out of these designs.

[@der1cho]

The ninja only needed one cut (overpass) to make a kill[er track]

[@Tom_Hadler]

Hugenholtz also had a big role in Zandvoort I believe

[@sayf_m]

That long and fast right hander could have been tamborello v2

[@csykes23]

So after all the proposals, the first Suzuka was built pretty much as it stands today, obviously without all the safety protective Armco (though it did have some) and run-off zones. It also didn't have the final chicane, meaning it was pretty much flat-out from Spoon to the first corner, which would've been ridiculously scary when you consider the sweeping downhill right-hander the chicane cuts in half....

[@MrMichkov]

130R and the final corner arn't flat for most of the lifetime of Suzuka. 130R is comparable to Eau Rouge in terms of being flat, so by the mid 2000s. Than again it was reprofiled back in 2002 opening up the corner to provide more runoff.The final corner without the chicane would be similar, most of the time down a gear or two, especially considering that the turn in is over the crest where the chicane is today. In summary, challenging very fast but not so much flat.

[@csykes23]

@@MrMichkov considering the classes of cars that would have been racing prior to 1982, the run from Spoon to Turn 1 would've been pretty much flat in most of them.

[@MrMichkov]

That goes for most just not flat corner given the higher numbers of lower category racers. Keep in mind 917s and Group 7 car exist pre 82

[@xander1052]

I'd love to drive these in AC, they all seem like solid designs - xander for r/racetrackdesigns

[@FadeingPally]

What do you think about the KymiRing? New track in Finland

[@patrickmillar7908]

Love this, I’m in the process of starting a dissertation about race track design & architecture. What’s your source? @southpawracer

[@gabem.5242]

Google "gdecarli" ;)

[@patrickmillar7908]

Gabe M. Amazing thank you

[@SouthPawRacer]

My sources are in the video description :)