Swarming Proxima Centauri and Getting Data Back [NIAC 2024]

When we'll be sending probes to other stars, getting there will be only one part of the challenge. How do we get the data back? So, NASA just funded a research that will be aiming to solve this problem through the NIAC program.
👉 NIAC Award "Swarming Proxima Centauri: Coherent Picospacecraft Swarms Over Interstellar Distances"
www.nasa.gov/general/swarming...
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00:00 Intro
00:56 Applying for NIAC
02:54 The Idea
25:43 Imaging planets
30:06 Using tech in the Solar System
38:24 Laser technology
45:30 The reality of NIAC
51:19 Final thoughts
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[@JAGzilla-ur3lh]

It's kinda surreal, watching an interview like this. If it works, if the project goes through and we get close up pictures of the Proxima Centauri system... this man, Marshall Eubanks, will be a full on hero. One of the greatest scientists of all time. One of the architects of a truly landmark experiment that will put humanity in a new era of space exploration. May God be with you as you fight to get this project off the ground, Mr. Eubanks. We all want to see this pay off.

[@roqua]

23:01 Props to this interview in teaching us the term "Roemer delay", which is a delay in the appearance of a transient as observed from Earth, named after Olaus Rømer. I love stuff like this!

[@jamesneufeld6308]

Super neat. I had to Google everything you just said. But really neat

[@roqua]

@@jamesneufeld6308 without Marshall talking about the need to compensate for this delay in our calculations of trajectory for sending micoprobes 4+ light years to Alpha, Beta and Proxima Cen, I wouldn't have had all the pieces ready in my head to understand this either.

[@lyledal]

Woot! NIAC awards interviews! Fantastic!!

[@jewymchoser]

How did we live before KZbin?! Such a great informative video.

[@Yezpahr]

We didn't, pre-YT was a modern Dark Age. People auto-piloted instinctively through the digital fuzzy bubble they knew. Zero useful information was exchanged. Forums / IRC / newsgroups just featured rambling, game chat and hacks/cheats/romhacks. It was magical and scary at the same time. Not knowing if in a 12 minute video of a robot crawling through the Queen's Chamber shaft there will be treasure at the end or there will be a 200++ IQ Bigbrain powermove in the form of a Rick Roll. Truly magical.

[@belstar1128]

we didn't know any better .we just had to read books maybe buy videos like this on vhs if you could afford it .

[@will2023-onCensorshipTub]

You mean before the internet this stuff is not new and you tube dont get me started.

[@belstar1128]

@@will2023-onCensorshipTub before youtube came out watching videos online was possible but it was very annoying and low quality .and most people had very slow internet or weak hardware.

[@mjmonjure]

This is so awesome, we so need people like Marshall to keep us moving forward. I hope we can continue to nurture our children in STEM to get us to future explorations in distant solar systems.

[@David-8x1x8]

A terrific follow up to my favorite interview of this past year. Thank you gentlemen.

[@jimashby43]

What a layman scientist. Fantastic interview. Thanks

[@perilousturtle2171]

Quack! I like your duck!

[@fancifulfilly]

How do you figure "layman"? Did you exert yourself enough to check out the guy's professional background?--obviously not. It's all there in black and white, including the asteroid named in his honor, 30-some years ago for his contributions to science. Whatever your impressions are about NIAC, it is not a program to fund mainly laymen and hobbyists. Unlikely a lay person could do something that requires that much of both knowledge and comprehension.

[@perilousturtle2171]

@@fancifulfilly The guy did not use alot of scientific words to exsplain things as a layman would as if in a room with children. He kinda held back. I liked it as an interview, yet he back tracks alot and confuses stuff...instead of just saying the science term, he exsplains it and still no science term. Simply not the most elagent for those who are older and know what he is talking about before he says it. I presume you have a degree in this science? Cool. Was it on the lower end or higher end of exsplanation? I still enjoyed it. Just slow. I am a layman. Though watch alot, even of lecturers from some of the best for 15 years and did some good highschool. So what. I searsh for theories and watch. Just like you for stuff you have no degree in. I am sure you get indignant too. We all do. But he is on the in crowd and did the interview. Good enough. Gawwwd Fobid we now need a degree to talk about washing dishes let alone science at acoffee shop. Wow Big brother, against freedome of speach. LOL Could you do the interview better? LOL. I bug you no worries. Get mad and freak. Just do not talk to your wife like that over a task you do regularly and do it your way and not a hers. Entitlment. What evs.

[@fancifulfilly]

@@perilousturtle2171 I never tried to critique either party in this podcast, so why ask me if I think I could do it better? I only noted that it was incorrect on your part to assume the guy being interviewed is a layman. It could definitely come across as an underhanded way of saying you think he isn't really qualified, or that you are disgruntled for some obscure personal reason.. NIAC awards give opportunities to smaller companies, that doesn't mean they select their recipients arbitrarily and capriciously. And I don't argue with people who do things my way, their way, any way. I think you're confusing my comment with someone else's.

[@perilousturtle2171]

@@fancifulfilly Sure. Awards are not always given to the best as it is often given by the majority who fails others. Even if a guy or woman says it better and stuttters, the other person may get the award and the interview. Just how it is. I still liked it. But it was as if me a layman was describing the program. Sometimes sarcasim is more truthful. Me a Jester? Maybe. Though not to hurt always. My only consern is that even a kid would watch it and then be like...GET ON WITH IT! I listend and almost shut it off several times. Simple as that. I see your view. It is science and I respect that. Some interview great and others...have your understudy exsplain it a they helped you alot too and deaerve credit. The older you get, the slower you get and forget. Use the sience words. So...I think it is a bit funny. Enough to enjoy and also laugh. I like you!

[@TanyaCumpston]

If you're looking for a test area with lots of room, the Woomera Prohibited Area (WPA) in South Australia covers an area of approximately 122,188 square kilometers (75,924 sq miles). It’s located about 450 kilometers north-northwest of Adelaide.

[@jamesneufeld6308]

Unfortunately I don't think that would be feasible. I think it would need to be on the equator to limit the effect of Earth's tilt. That way we can have the launch window as large as possible

[@sjzara]

This is one of the most exciting interviews I have seen in a long time. Real practical interstellar probes.

[@BitcoinMeister]

This was a great one! Some thoughts: 1. Webb should take a photo of Pluto and it should be compared to those from New Horizon. It should show the world and convince the funders that nothing beats a flyby! 2, Yes the government does not plan with the long-term in mind. Private funders like Elon can easily be convinced to fund projects that will takes decades to produce results. It will not matter if it is ego driven or there is a profit motive. 3.You can the Proxima mission AND smaller test ones to various objects MUCH closer to us in our neighborhood. The guest addressed how powerful this tech will be for learning about our region. At the end of the show Fraser makes it seem like an either/or choice. Everyone is in fact a winner so one does not have to worry about picking one project over another. Just market it right, get the funding, and have an open mind! Do not worry about the financial constraints of NASA.

[@ChrisMisMYhandle]

What a pair of great communicators. This was a fantastic interview about a really interesting proposal elevated beyond just great by his fantastic audio and camera quality. Thanks for this. Edit: thanks for the great visual edits too.

[@mskellyrlv]

I too saw Saturn V launches: Apollo 14, 17 and the Skylab Workshop. The latter I watched from the crawler way, 3.5 miles from the pad. Wow! Loudest thing I ever heard.

[@gmonteith]

This is cool. I will have to catch the results of this mission in my NEXT lifetime, I guess.

[@AnarchoCatBoyEthan]

Yep, downside of time. I have been watching For All Mankind and I am quite frankly pissed off thinking about how far we could be now if we had actually started back then. We should already have a lunar base!

[@Joenerfhearder]

Could They build a swarm for local missions? A100 probe mission to Saturn to explore the rings would be a nice proof of concept.

[@mrbaab5932]

Haven't we already explored the rings of Saturn?

[@UpperDarbyDetailing]

@@mrbaab5932some. Cassini gave us a lot of data, but we can always use more.

[@HansDunkelberg1]

@@mrbaab5932 After all, the rings of Saturn largely consist of ice boulders. Ice boulders can contain alien microorganisms. If you photograph effluvia of such bodies from a close distance, that can provide a different, and a richer, sort of data than you'll obtain it from other pieces of ice in space which you mostly miss because they evaporate before they reach the surface of the Earth or because their locations are completely unknown.

[@zam6877]

This idea of sending lots to bunch of distant places in our solar system would be amazing

[@KarldorisLambley]

@@mrbaab5932 not really

[@MasonPayne]

Marshall is such a character. Good interview and fascinating topic. Keep ‘em coming!

[@gamegoof]

Starshot is the ONE THING that gets me excited, REALLY EXCITED 🤤

[@fisheye42]

Great talk; interesting subject... Fun analogies: A swarm of micro sailing ships, flinging pizzas, back to awaiting buckets. 😊

[@Mamertas1]

So it was hard to get it (or I've possibly missed it) how they plan to power those tiny probes for twenty years? Any transmission of information needs quite a lot of power. We won't be able to detect so weak signal from the probes.

[@martin09091989]

Yea, I can't see either how you would power those! Only chance is some sort of nuclear battery/generator withe some microwatts of power... Then you need some sort of accumulator for a burst of power, powering some sort of sensors, a brain and then a transmitter... And all that in within 10g 😵

[@gitmoholliday5764]

Once they are moving there wouldn't be much to slow them down like an atmosphere right ? maybe an occasional dust-particle or some gravitational pull.. like the moon circling earth, a moon or comet doesn't need some outboard motor to keep moving also.

[@georgespalding7640]

@@gitmoholliday5764 They're talking about power to transmit data from one probe to the other or back to earth.

[@marshalleubanks2454]

Beta-voltaic nuclear batteries are the current prime candidate for a power source.

[@John-dh1gh]

Now, develop a swarm that can configure itself with self assembly into a bigger more finctional unit.... basically like sending jigsaw pieces. Self assembly into a mother probe which then assembles all the other pieces being seen... sounds like those von knoman (sp) probes.

[@HansDunkelberg1]

Perhaps this would require too many lasers at once too appear as reasonably payable. If you send a later probe at a higher speed, you'll have to brake it when it reaches a probe sent earlier. Of such a braking you could need a too high amount with the distances between the probes being as big as one laser array alone lets them be. But if I remember correctly that self-achieved accelerations of several hundred meters per second are envisioned as lying in the capacity of a probe, your concept would indeed seem to make sense. A division of the overall travel time by the minimum intervals achievable with one laser array, compared with a division of 60,000 km / sec by a few hundred meters per second, would indeed seem to result in a scenario in which a much smaller difference of the speeds than a few hundred meters per second could remain when the probes come close to the destination. With speed corrections achievable by a probe on its own in the realm of a two-hundredth of the overall speed or so, you'll easily surpass, by such a fraction, the fraction of twenty years made up through a few minutes.

[@Srfingfreak]

I wonder if it would be a good idea to launch progressively larger probe swarms as "relay" vehicles 1) First batch - lightest and fastest, capable of 1 photon per month to Earth but better local communication 2) Second batch - serves to co-ordinate and direct the First batch, relays signals to third batch 3) Third batch - serves to relay signals back to earth, perhaps a "chain" of probes launched annually to "fireman bucket" the data back to Earth. Maybe you could be launching First/Second Batch swarms the whole way through, as well, so that you could slowly build a probe swarm near the destination or at each "node" for greater reliability.

[@jamesneufeld6308]

Now I can't stop imagining our solar system branching out in tendrils of nano sats to every star

[@frrapp2366]

even if the relay idea isnt valid you could do specialty probes with each successive wave. each wave with different sensors each working off the previous waves data for tracking ect. wonder if the probes would be able to curve back with gravitational pull?? even if your curve is 2 or 3 times the size of the solar system

[@AnarchoCatBoyEthan]

WOOOOOOO!!!!! i am incredibly interested in the whole alpha centari system. One of my favorite star systems, I love it. I got starfield recently and while alpha centari is featured prominently I was super depressed about the lack of Proxima!

[@georgespalding7640]

How ironic it is that the most difficult part of sending a probe to the nearest star might be trying to figure out a way to get the discovered data back to Earth in a coherent form.

[@bitbucketcynic]

The only solution I see is launching microprobe after microprobe every few weeks until the first ones get there going at 0.2c, with the probes acting as relays/repeaters/signal boosters, daisy chaining the signal all the way back to Earth.

[@roqua]

@@bitbucketcynic Seeing as how we must launch 1000 for 10 to make it, sending that number every three weeks would amount to 1000 X 17 a year X 20 years = 340,000 probes.. the project cost would balloon pretty quickly. (Not that it is necessarily impractical to keep a train of probe launches going, but the frequency probably has to be a serious consideration)

[@SuperBaburu]

How about sending a train of space craft that can talk to each other so data is relayed from each craft back to earth?

[@frasercain]

The problem comes if the chain gets broken at any point. This is much more robust.

[@Nomad77ca]

@@frasercain Perhaps a chain of small warms? Would also give you data over time rather than a single flyby.

[@petevenuti7355]

​@@Nomad77ca not a bad idea, send them out in clusters. Of course if we do that and anything goes wrong we know what they will call it.

[@bozo5632]

​@@frasercainMake a denser chain that can still function with a percentage of dropouts.

[@GhostofReason]

@@frasercainTrue, but a chain of swarms allows for robustness and signal strength

[@kai4314]

You can tell Marshall's an MIT alum! It's always a pleasure listening to him talk; he makes for a wonderful science educator!

[@marksweeney7051]

Fascinating interview. Marshall is very well spoken and easy to follow. Not all scientists can get their points across so well. Excellent job, Fraser.

[@fep_ptcp883]

10 grams is very, very light for a probe with camera, battery and transmission capability

[@CoffeeFiend1]

They need to be scaled up really. We have the obvious issue of 'Smaller Probes = More complex but need less push' or 'Bigger Probes = Less complex but need greater push'. So is it harder to make the probes smaller/lighter or to make lasers more sophisticated/powerful? I'd argue that one of these can be overcome with brute force volume whilst the other can't. It would be hard, expensive and take up a lot of space but we could brute force the laser solution, it's an engineering infrastructure issue. The 10g advanced computers working together in a swarm.... Honestly a lot harder, we can't brute force that, it's something we need phenomenal advancements in that are pretty much getting into the nano and quantum realm.

[@neilbond2483]

Great interview. Marshall's enthusiasm is contagious 👍

[@babyoda1973]

Persistence pays off and it's easier to endure when you have passion

[@qcjoey2000]

Seems like for such a monumental project, the principal invetigator, should be more specific. I'm still rooting for you

[@njm3211]

How about doing a small scale test run to Pluto as a proof of concept?

[@LucasFerreira-gx9yh]

send it to Eris or other kuyper belt object we havent seen

[@fep_ptcp883]

Could send it to Uranus

[@bobmcarthur5468]

Great interview. What a great idea.

[@zapfanzapfan]

Might be a good idea to look for very small meteorites hitting the Moon or our atmosphere at 0.2 c.

[@prankfurter]

What a wonderful guest. Truly enjoyed this, and excited to see how this all comes together.

[@davidmcsween]

Kicking off NIAC season in style

[@malikaikinn1153]

Dr. Marshall Eubanks would make a good Snape doppelganger

[@rJaune]

What a fascinating interview! It's funny you talk about Dr. Turyshev, because he reminds me of him. I'm very interested in the testing of these concepts on Earth and in system. There could be so much interesting science on the way to being able to get to Alpha Centauri!

[@HebaruSan]

If we build the superlaser on the far side of the Moon for safety reasons, it'll have significant idle time unless we send missions across the ecliptic for it to target throughout a given month. What other interesting systems would fit nicely with Prox Cen?

[@marshalleubanks2454]

Well, assuming Alpha Centauri planet candidate 1 is confirmed it will have a high priority. Of course, the visibility of Prox and Alpha are largely the same, so it doesn't solve this problem. Luhman 16 is another candidate. A binary brown-dwarf system at 6.5 lights also in the far South, and about 4 hours in Right Ascension from Alpha Centauri. I'm very interested in the biological potential of this system.

[@RonLWilson]

Wow! That is really cool!

[@redcirclesilverx4586]

This is killer, great interview!

[@NorthernChev]

Marshall gets my vote for "Most Interesting Man Alive, 2024".

[@philochristos]

Good interview.

[@signumscaler]

Thank you again for these type of video's.

[@helgekumpfert4011]

about 21.5 years

[@HebaruSan]

An apostrophe is not needed to alert the reader that an "S" is coming up at the end of a word

[@helgekumpfert4011]

@@HebaruSan - this is a global community with many non-native speakers

[@ken7165]

That is so cool!!!

[@savetheplantet5799]

Dude im freaking out on this one!!! Yesssss!!!!

[@keithsextonakathebluerose]

Smaller follow up microsatellites to relay and boost communications, spaced at intervals of two years apart.

[@user-gg1dm4cj2c]

Fabulous interview Fraser!!! Jerry in Brazil

[@rogerdudra178]

An interesting perspective.

[@savetheplantet5799]

Also absolutely cannot wait for whatever niac interviews tome. I am a SPONGE right now

[@JamesCairney]

This was good.

[@xduckxer2092]

Great interview, thanks!

[@colleenforrest7936]

Would it be possible to send up a series of relay swarms between us and alpha central that can take a spread out signal and resend the data from a point source again ( which will naturally spread out) to the next swarm in the relay

[@Joenerfhearder]

Would these probes also be capable of listening for radio signals? Send some cameras and some receivers on separate probes in the same swarm. Could Swarms be sent as a string of pearls where each pearl communicates with the probes in front and behind?

[@Corvaire]

You can use the originating lasers as reductive drag (side mirror sheets that point back onto forwarding surface.)

[@jdcjr50]

Thank you.

[@progkarma944]

Great Interview! My brain is exploding!

[@gabrielsanchez5553]

Listening to Severus Snape talking about a space project is amazing.

[@prehistoricbody]

So exciting!

[@RichardWilliams-MMB]

Great idea - amazing its funded. I'd sign up for a Fraser / Marshall weekly podcast. Is that a thing? Can that happen? 🙂

[@pupupoopface]

This may be a stupid question, but can will the astral wind “push back” on the laser sails when they get close to Centauri, or will the gravity be more powerful when they get there?

[@danlewellyn6734]

On the Fermi Paradox; you seem to assume one answer and not diminishing probabilities. At best the hypothesis that we are "alone" has simply not enough data. Actually there is virtually no data, just a logic exercise.

[@anniealexander9911]

Oooh. Triton. Go look. I love your interviews with Dr Eubank. I remember in the previous interview there was discussion about Proxima B's orbit and how we know little about it. I think there is still an outstanding question of just how gravitationally bound Proxima Cen actually is to Alpha Cen A and B. The orbit of Proxima Cen around Alpha Cen A and B is pretty long. If Proxima Cen is also only weakly bound will these 2 issues make it even more difficult to predict the position of Proxima Cen in 24 years in the future and, therefore, also Proxima B? Are the telescopes in Australia the only ones that can even see the Proxima system? What happens if Proxima Cen has a temper tantrum as the swarm is either passing through the system or attempting to move into orbit around Proxima B? And, finally, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Trappist system are all airless barren rocks. If that is indeed the case do you think that funding might dry up for projects specifically focused on Proxima B? As much as I find the Trappist and Proxima systems really exciting they have always seemed like hell worlds.

[@kirkwagner461]

Curious what the attrition rate of these will be during the trip? Hope I live long enough to see.

[@CompanyBusinessCards]

This was super interesting.

[@clydecox2108]

Great content.

[@petevenuti7355]

Now hopefully I live long enough that I see the fruit of this endeavor!

[@marenpurves4493]

Hope they don't make the same mistake as the EHT when transferring data over the internet, having to preserver the directory structure. If nothing else works, put it in the file name. Preferably put the info which part of the swarm it came from in to the file when you save it.

[@anderswallin3883]

If we can set up a factory station in earth's orbit, with some kind of launch system on in, we could do stuff like this way cheaper in the future

[@drinkxyz]

Marshall is awesome to hear from

[@patrick247two]

Send the probes. Gives us a target to overtake.

[@frrapp2366]

could say the starlink constellation be rotated outward to form a super receiver / telescope ??

[@ripn929707]

For sending photons at that distance be aided by something like how noise canceling headphones work? Have the sending cube sat observe the background photons from the oposite direction as earth, then send a signal of photons that cancel out, or somehow play off of the light spectrum they are traveling with? Then when the light patern changes, as observed on earth, they could more easily see a pattern. And yes, I understand that light and sound are different, i am using noise canceling technology because, its the closest analogy i could think of.

[@rdbchase]

Sure, never mind getting the swarm to Proxima Centauri -- building a 100 GW laser and a swarm of 10 g spacecraft capable not only of surviving acceleration by that laser but also of performing useful observations once they arrive is child's play; let's pretend all that's done and that the only problem is sending data back to Earth. Let's not -- sure hope the NIAC grant is for studying the entire concept. I'm way more interested in TFINER (Thin Film Isotope Nuclear Engine Rocket), especially the cost of producing adequate amounts of Thorium-228 for it. Oak Ridge National Laboratory says that it "produces large quantities of Th-228", but the context is medical research, not propulsion. 100+ km/s isn't enough to get to Proxima Centauri in a reasonable length of time, but it could revolutionize the exploration of the Solar System.

[@seasonallyferal1439]

Love the NIACs

[@Bitchslapper316]

The book deaths end had a entertaining version of this idea. The propulsion was different but it was also a tiny probe with a low mass they had to expend a lot of resources on to reach %1 light speed. They ended up sending a human brain.

[@frasercain]

Oh yeah, I remember that.

[@bozo5632]

Send mine, I'm hardly even using it.

[@Jedward108]

It's hard to visualize these 10g probes, what kind of systems, power source, etc.

[@Jamii.pages.]

Imagine, a swarm of probes approaching our solar system and earth...I wonder what we would make of it, coming from an unknown origin...

[@aardvarkmindshank]

Surely you could steer these things at least to some extent while enroute. They would have some thrusting maneuvering capability right? Seems strange to only rely on the direction setting at launch.

[@frasercain]

Yes, you can steer them a little bit in space.

[@royparrish2515]

Would a swarm of small sats be capable of acting like a larger Telescope, when viewing within a few AU's from them? They could be used to do 'virtual' flybys of lots of objects (like multiple asteroids) without doing the actual flybys?? Just use a burst to send them out and they can be used to do large scale detailed surveys of the Solar system, maybe.

[@AthiktosOfficial]

Why not use a nm range that is outside what the star's spectrum may be? Would that make it possible to read anything in that missing portion of the spectrum?

[@RobertSputnikWranglerVtoroi]

our point design in the arXiv paper utilized 432-nm diode laser, commercially available. At that color, Proxima's blackbody curve is very low, so an acceptable amount of noise in our link.

[@revmsj]

I can’t wait…

[@LaurentLaborde]

where does the material to make a galaxy come from ? how did the star form in the specific region of galaxy and not elswhere ? a supersupernova the size of a galaxy ?

[@seanhewitt603]

A couple dozen thousand primordial super stars (100,000 solar masses each) and they'd only take up 2000 light year wide spiral or cloud, exactly as the jwst is showing us...

[@LaurentLaborde]

@@seanhewitt603 so, the dense center is from primordial star and the external part was built over time ?

[@stevenswitzer5154]

From the jump I have replicator apprehension. What if they go, become sentient, and come back to conquer?

[@DeviantPlot]

Helm, to the Oort cloud!

[@srabonx]

Marshall, I absolutely love your idea. Is there anyway to work with you?

[@geoffhoutman1557]

Fraser, could you please do a video on how easy (or hard) it is to get direct view photos of Prox B from JWST? I know it can see infra red and some visible light spectrum colours, so why hasn’t it happened? The public would love it, or is it on the “to do” list already competing with hundreds of other projects for scope time Cheers G

[@jim.franklin]

The issue is the sensitivity of JWSTs detectors and how bright Proxima is to the detectors. Although dim to the human eye, Proxima would flood the detectors due to the angular separation between the star and planet. Fraser did a video in this within the last two weeks - have a search for it.

[@jim.franklin]

The issue is the sensitivity of JWSTs detectors and how bright Proxima is to the detectors. Although dim to the human eye, Proxima would flood the detectors due to the angular separation between the star and planet. Fraser did a video in this within the last two weeks - have a search for it.

[@nuwave4328]

Re large telescopes vs probes: there's no replacement for displacement.

[@man_at_the_end_of_time]

I'd say start "closer" with these technologies. A swarm to Saturn and then out towards the Oort cloud?

[@389293912]

The laser can send a time sync signal along with the power.

[@nerufer]

hey Fraser, forgive my ignorance, but how do these tiny probes slow down once they get to proxima centauri? Ok, so I'm halfway through the interview and I understand they will simply zip through and take a picture and send them?

[@marshalleubanks2454]

The short answer is that they don't, they fly through the system, and all the good stuff happens in less than an hour. The end of "Box of Rain" comes to mind "Such a long, long time to be gone And a short time to be there"

[@RobertSputnikWranglerVtoroi]

they don't, they just fly by - remember, delta v is in the exponent of the rocket equation, so deceleration to achieve rendezvous doesn't double the problem, it squares the problem.

[@iliyanz_]

Can additional swarms act as repeaters?

[@hitchensghost]

" 1 order of magnitude is engineering, 2 orders of magnitude is physics, 10 orders of magnitude is theology" - Marshall Eubanks

[@garylcamp]

I really want this to bear fruit as it is the only practical way to go for many years if at all. 1) As for communication, why not use that enormous laser power we use to propel the sails to also communicate with Earth. just reflect the laser beam back to earth or not to make ones and zeros. The craft get twice the momentum kick by reflection than absorption so it cost only what it takes to change the reflection direction slightly and coordinate the signal. Kind of semifor. Might be done with electrically controlled deflection. 2) As mentioned, string out the sails over a long distance to make a relay string for mesh. 3) at the final destination, use the local starlight to power some deceleration and/or comm to Earth. 4) this system can be used over years to other stars and for other experimental work. A UN or all Earth supported (united) scientific system like the large hadron collider funding/support, only bigger. 5) Likely possible to use the solar wind initially to boost the sails out of the system. Add lasers in a long term production to cut the cost impact initially.

[@cyrusthevirus9878]

Maybe using the frequency of the planets core ?

[@mrbaab5932]

Fresnel lenses are bo wheres diffractio limited and typically have poor imagery for imagining systems. If you are just using fresnel for power collection they are fine. A 100um thick fresnel lens 1m in diameter is going to have 1000s of zones. Also the thinest part of the zone is going to be around 50um and may rip under its one weight.

[@richardsylvester6483]

How do they slow down when they get there? Or do they just whiz past and hopefully manage to take a snap and send it back before disappearing into the void?

[@frasercain]

It's just a flyby. So, just a day or so of observations.

[@Ozzyfrog78]

Congrats to Marshall Eubanks! And thanks for these chats Fraser Question: what stops us from focusing or deflecting the sun's light instead of using lasers? If I applied the Lorentz factor properly, a 10g travelling at 0.2c would be carrying a serious 9.39 x 10^14 punch. That's small earthquake material ! Better not be in the line of sight of those discarded probes.

[@richardsylvester6483]

yeah are we sure there's nobody living there? might end up accidentally peppering someone's planet with WMDs, could be taken the wrong way.@@Ozzyfrog78

[@RobertSputnikWranglerVtoroi]

see above

[@alexisdespland4939]

why no repeater station part way there.

[@couldntfindafreename]

Gradual development would be nice. Using 1MW lasers to fly by Solar System objects. Increase the power and weight / swarm size / target speed from there. Once it works we (Humanity) learn a lot from the results and can make a bigger plan. After that it would be a good next step to build the solar gravity lens telescope using this technology, which requires high speed to reach about 1000 AU distance.

[@HansDunkelberg1]

Why should Sun or Moon get into the way of transmissions from Proxima Centauri? Isn't Proxima Centauri fairly close to the south celestial pole?

[@executivesteps]

Declination is - 60 degrees. Below (south) the Antarctic circle it’s circumpolar and never sets. The Sun and the Moon will never get close. There won’t be any interference from the horizon or the Moon or Sun. It’s odd that he hasn’t even thought that through.

[@ciflaudin9755]

I think its wort it if we get one hd picture of something there.

[@Roguescienceguy]

Question. Doesn't Jupiter, being a massive body itself, do some gravitational lensing? I would suspect that the focal point is not that far out. The alpha Centauri swarm could do some work while on its way out while passing the focal point of Jupiter and once again when at 650AU

[@jack504]

The sun is a thousand times more massive than Jupiter. Not sure Jupiter is any good for lensing. Even less likely on the way. Trajectories are an art in themselves

[@Roguescienceguy]

@@jack504 thanks for answering and I know what you know, but it would be nice to hear from guys who actually did the math on this. Like, what mass is the bare minimum for meaningful lensing. About the starshot project. I don't think these will travel through space the way we were used to actually.

[@marshalleubanks2454]

The minimum gravitational focal point for planets tend to be pretty far out. The minimum Gravitational Focal Length for Sun = 548.20 AU or 0.0087 lyr Jupiter = 5793.31 AU or 0.0916 lyr Earth = 15259.27 AU or 0.2413 lyr

[@Roguescienceguy]

@@marshalleubanks2454 awesome. Thanks Marshall. Actually makes sense that the focal point would be further given less gravitational mass = less bendy🫣

[@marshalleubanks2454]

@@Roguescienceguy Yes. And the same is true on the other end. We don't know the mass of Proxima b, but it's presumably similar to the Earth's, and so its minimum focal length is about the same. Proxima (the star) is pretty dense, so its minimum focal length is 90.8228 AU, or 2.5 hours from the minimum encounter. We are working on using these gravitational lenses during the voyage.