Swarovski STC vs. The Field

[@brentduvall]

Thanks guys. STS 65 is what I’ve been thinking

[@mountainstomarshes8966]

This is an awesome review fellas, thanks for the time and effort. I agree about the Kowa 55... wouldn't trade mine for ANYTHING

[@countrymanrandylewis8463]

It's that good??

[@6878ou812]

Just dropped the coin to buy the ATS 65 25-50 spotter after watching this review. Thanks

[@Rokslide]

Very good review guys!

[@ads3453]

Interesting video, I did a similar test the other day at a local store. I tested the Kowa 88A, Kowa 883, Swarovski ATS 80, Swarovski ATX85 and the Swarovski ATX95. While the Kowa's were good at medium range when it came to long range detail resolution the Swarovski ATX95 was easily the best followed by the Swarovski ATX85 and then in Third it was the Kowa 88A. So while I support the little guy (in this case Kowa) they were not in the very top tier performance. I did however get to look at some birds closer range mid range and the clarity was very good with the Kowa 88A. The point I am trying to make here is don't always believe the hype and remember things usually cost more for a reason.

[@James_Jacobs]

I really appreciate you guys doing this comparison! Very helpful!

[@davidcopher4234]

Great review, guys. I love the complete honestly and transparency, it's refreshing in this day and age.

[@cannibalholocaust3015]

I have a Kowa 80mm and bought a 613 kowa cheap on marketplace and found myself grabbing it. Light and can be used with monopod , was a revelation compared to lugging tripod around.

[@thetaysonwhittaker]

This review was helpful for sure, and I'd love to hear more peoples thoughts on this. The ATC was delivered to my house a couple of days back and this review really made me think if I should keep it! In the end I am going to keep it. I feel like you were more sad you didn't see an increase in optical quality over the Kowa55 rather than saying that they were actually about 99% the same optical quality? Meaning, you wanted it to be better than the Kowa 55, but it was really about the same? Once you get over that hurtle and look at the FOV being nearly double and the eye relief being significantly bettter I think I'm still going to keep the ATC. Plus, it's build quality allows me to use a very minimal case compared to the Kowa. My plan is to run the ATC for a year on my backpack hunts and then make a call to keep it or sell and switch to the ATS 65. If I jump to the 65 right now I'll always wonder if the ATC would have been enough for my style of glassing...Thoughts? Also what little I've looked through the ATC compared to my Maven 80, I've been super impressed. Honestly seems more crisp (or easier to get crisp) and still did ok as the light was fading...

[@ExoMtnGear]

Tayson, yeah I just had really high hopes for the STC and in the end I didn't see anything that got me really excited over the Kowa 55. The Swaro ATS 65 though is crazy good! - Steve

[@mysterioanonymous3206]

1 year later now... how did it go for you?

[@mtntomtn]

Fantastic overview guys thanks!

[@craigcowling865]

Can you guys do the same resolution chart, but with Binos? Have the Maven 9x45, and would be really interested in how they stack to swaro and zeiss. I’m in the Boise area, and would be able to donate my binos for a video if you needed a test sample.

[@torreyintahoe]

I just bought a used ATS 65 non HD off of Rokslide. Do you think it would be worth it to buy a 20-50 wide angle eyepiece? Do you think the HD is considerably better than the non HD? I got a great deal but curious where it stands compared to the one you're using.

[@stevenelsbury6474]

Any more commentary on what hunting situations you might want to pick different scopes for? You started briefly talk about sheep vs everything else but it Seems like theres a significant difference between counting tines on mule deer, aging sheep/goats, judging black bears and what kind of terrain you're likely to do those things in.

[@mysterioanonymous3206]

Swarovski markets it as a stalk hunting optic... Make of that what you want.

[@offraed6156]

Sample variation is a big factor. Even the most expensive scopes are variable in optical quality. I mean that small variations in optical quality amongst several samples of the same scope can easily be seen.

[@sinepari9160]

Agreed and why I won't buy optics second hand.

[@feelsgooddoit]

I've heard many times the best sample come directly from swaro and not the retail store

[@madman61756]

Steve looks like the guy from the Exo Mountain Gear videos?? ....I typed that and then watched one and he's the same guy lol!

[@NerdMouth]

Question on the eye relief and field of view difference between the Kowa 55 and the ATC: Is that eye relief and FOV difference held when they are set at the same magnification? What if we back out the Kowa to 40x? I am curious if that is a perceived advantage to the ATC based on the Kowa's superior zoom range

[@SandSArchery]

I will get you the specific numbers at both the low and high-end for each, but I will say it's noticeably different when comparing side by side. The Swarovski is noticeably more comfortable and visually a larger field of view.

[@SandSArchery]

Max zoom exit pupil on the Kowa is 1.3mm VS the ATC is 1.4mm so the ATC retains is edge even at full zoom.

[@NerdMouth]

@@SandSArchery Thanks for looking into that! One question though: given that the Kowa has 5x more power at top zoom, I am imagining that increase in exit pupil would go away if the power was backed off to match the Swaro, right? Or at 40x do the Kowa and Swaro have different FOV sizes and eye relief? In other words it sounds like to me the Swaro only has an advantage because they limited the zoom range.

[@PTDavidRodrigues]

First Swaro X I heard wasn't good. Do you know if was a "lemon" or it suffered any accident?

[@ryanmurphy8327]

Thanks for the great review. would love to see this 10 x 42 bino but add the 12x42 nl in there to see if the $ is worth it.

[@ryaniam22]

I know the internet likes to shit on them but I still think the zeiss 65 (even then older green and silver ones) have better resolution than any swaro 65 or swaro 80. Meopta made them with zeiss coatings added. They have killer resolution. Still outperforms the newest leica 65 and it's 20 years older design. I think the kowa and meopta are closer to zeiss quality than swaro. But this new swaro is so small I gotta say I'm a big fan even if its not quite as punchy as a zeiss. However I do wish kowa would add their 25-60 eyepiece to the 55mm kowa because everyone would trade 2-3 oz for a bigger fov. In that regard the new swaro easily beats the kowa.

[@aaronthibault5771]

Would be interesting to know when the changes were made to the Swaro ATS...im still so stuck on a decision to go spotter or 15's or both...

[@jackwagon1798]

Really like my kowa 664.

[@jeremylee6357]

Thank you for the great review! Really enjoyed this! Had a quick question: Have you guys caught any word of Kowa coming out with an updated 77A/77S version anytime soon like they did with the 88 series? Thanks!

[@SandSArchery]

We have not heard anything about that..sorry!

[@chuauzikpuia4658]

How I wish I could get my hands on one of these! 😭😭😭 Currently I own a Nikon Prostaff 5 20-60x82. It serves me well but, man, I want to know how much better are the really really high-end scopes.

[@countrymanrandylewis8463]

I have the higher end of the Nikon line, Nikon monarch ed-82-S and it is tact sharp asf at all ranges colours pop really well and ca is almost unnoticeable. 60x is sharp asf too but it loses 4% of the brightness still sharp though UNFORTUNATELY i only have the standard eyepiece and at 60x the eye relief is kind of a pain in the ass so well it's nice bright and sharp, but im going to get a headache in 2 minutes trynna squint my eye at that magnifications eye relief. They do have a wide angle eyepiece which is pretty crazy but its 600$ 😂😭

[@countrymanrandylewis8463]

But all in all Nikon monarch ed-82-S and ed-82-a is a killer line it's pretty damn good it's all you ever want a spotting scope to be but it doesn't go past 60x kowa and swaro have extenders so just keep saving up for the top!

[@kennethswenson2132]

What’s the year of manufacture on the ATS 65?

[@vhauser416]

What're the chances you guys can get your hands on an older ATS and compare it to this newer version? It seems odd that swaro would make such dramatic changes yet not advertise it.

[@cannibalholocaust3015]

Leica and Swarovski put latest coatings available as they develop them so two models a few years apart may have differences. It’s not advertised per se but something fairly well known.

[@jamesjahoda1613]

Thanks for the advice. I'm shopping for the 554. What's in the bush? The dog looks birdy...

[@SandSArchery]

good guess!

[@stevensaunders4982]

Great review. I am looking to buy my first scope with weight and backpack size being a major factor. I like the ATC over the 553 because of the wider FOV and eye relief, but I do like the fine focus wheel on the 553. The ATS 65HD sounds like the sweet spot. I was considering the ATX 65 because of the flexibility of being able to add a larger objective lens in the future, but it sounds like the ATS has a sharper image over the ATX. Do you think there is big weight difference between the 65 ATS and the 65 ATX, and is there a huge image quality difference between the two lenses? Thanks!

[@ads3453]

Keep in mind a working ATX is superior to a ATS. I recommend you try them out in person to confirm your view is the same. However the key difference as well between the two scopes is the eye piece. The ATX range was designed to primarily serve as a Digi scoping setup, so the eye pieces are very wide and feel a little different to the rest of the scopes which are designed to primarily be looked through by the human eye. This is why trying these scopes out is very important especially when eye fatigue also plays an important part of any purchasing decision.

[@MrTurkan26]

This is a really good and well needed review. Thanks guys. I am very surprised at the underwhelming nature of the STC compared to the Kowa 55 given how: new it is, heavier it is, wider FOV and larger eye relief. I am also very surprised the ATS 65 really is as fantastic to this day even with the Kowa's and STX/ATX in the equation. Very surprising. Here in Aus the STC is the same price as the ATS 65. The only benefit left of STC over ATS is now weight. 50oz compared to 34oz = which 1lb difference. Significant for sure. Still a tough decision for me. Annoyingly with spotters it seems like you need to own and run different sizes configurations to really learn what is best for an individual but who has that kind of money. My instinct was NL Pure 10x32 + STC 17-45x56 + Ultralight tripod would be a powerful, ultralight optics system but now am reconsidering the STC for the ATS 65 instead

[@mountainstomarshes8966]

Try to find an old magnesium bodied Swaro 65 dude!

[@MasterTricking]

i have the Swarovski CL Pocket 10x25, NL Pure 10x32 und now want to buy the ATC

[@ryaniam22]

In your experience does a bigger objective really help resolution in daylight? Or does it only become a factor in low light or once the distance becomes huge? Because in your video at 1000 yards even the ats65 at 50x appears to have the same resolution as the kowas at 60. Maybe miles out the bigger objectives pull ahead a bit. Is that the case?

[@matthewspeers2809]

If you had to buy one spotter, which would it be? Generally hunting purposes. I have the NL Pures, more glassing with those. Looking at the 55 or 77 Kowa, both ATSs, or lower power ATXs.

[@SandSArchery]

For me that is easy. The Kowa 77mm is hands down the most versatile. Its excellent in every situation, and the dual focus is huge in low light. The only downside is that its heavier than the ATS. Second would be the ATS 65 w/ wide angle eyepiece, and i would only choose it over the 77mm if weight is the most important spec. -Rob I know that Steve would choose the ATS, for him weight is always the priority.

[@peternelson9865]

I’m curious about the Swarovski ATS, what year the one your looking through was made, and what year do you think that Swarovski made the upgrade in optics?

[@SandSArchery]

Hey Peter, its about a year old. We have been doing comparisons for quite some time, and this was the first model that we saw improvements.. I have tested a couple new models since then and confirmed the "upgraded" performance!

[@jacob9675]

Thanks for doing this review fellas. For the ATS, would you go with the 20-50 or the 20-60 eye piece?

[@SandSArchery]

The 25-50x is what we recommend. The 20-60x is tough to focus up top, and the wide angle of the 25-50x is very nice!

[@ryaniam22]

I wish they would put the wide angle eyepiece on the little kowa 55 instead of using up all the shittier 20-60 eyepieces that nobody wants anymore

[@joshuawarren6792]

Maybe I missed this in the video, did I hear at the end that you guys believe the ATS to OUT PREFORM the ATX????

[@SandSArchery]

With what we have seen in the last few direct comparisons we've done between the ATS 65 and the ATX 65 the short answer is yes. The ATS is producing a sharper, cleaner image than the ATX. This was not the case a few years ago when we last did a detailed review so something has changed in the ATS to make it better. - Steve

[@jackwagon1798]

Kowa 77 vs Swarovski atc?

[@dezscott46]

Would be nice in the real world to try all the scopes you would love to own . Was thinking about changing my nikon ed82 and ed60 both with ds fixed eyepieces the 82 giving me x 30 and the 60 giving me x 24 the 60ed been straight used mainly in bird hides but on two separate outings I tried 2 atx 85 scopes and I was truly disappointed. Yes they were zoom eyepieces put the image wasn't a patch on my scope they were no were near as sharp or bright if was really like looking through a none ed scope .Not tried the kowa 88 yet but would like to with the latest fixed eyepieces.... at the moment you can by the body and the eyepiece separate which works out in price the same as buying it with the zoom eyepiece. As any body tried this scope yet would love your comments on it

[@cannibalholocaust3015]

Nikons ED82 is as good a scope as you will find, the ED III 60mm was reference scope in its class. Fantastic optics let down by poor field of view zoom EP. Monarch 82ED is latest updated model and it’s alpha killer on a “budget”.

[@cannibalholocaust3015]

Downside with Nikon is service is nowhere near the level of Swarovski. Leicas customer service is catching up to Swaro now as well I’ve heard. For peace of mind I’d go for either of those.

[@claytontarics4521]

59 ounces for the Kowa 883 - I think that might be a typo. Listed as 4lb 1oz on the website.

[@gacklehacks]

Is kowa going to bring back the 77?

[@SandSArchery]

We haven't heard anything about them bringing it back.

[@nonetheless01]

So ats 65 or kowa 77 if buying new in 2024?

[@SandSArchery]

Well there isn't a Kowa 77 anymore. So it's really between the Ats 65 and Kowa 66. Both very good. A little weight savings and money with the ATS. The Kowa's Resolution seems to be a hair better at low light. We also all agree that the focus system - fine and course of the Kowa is our favorite feature.

[@nonetheless01]

@SandSArchery I see kowa 77s routinely, not sure why you say they don't exist .

[@SandSArchery]

Yes you may still be able to purchase the 77 on some sites, they have stopped production on them however.@@nonetheless01

[@nonetheless01]

@SandSArchery ok , well you should probably get one while you can then because it's compact enough physically to be pretty easy to live with in the mountains and is better than the true compacts at everything else.

[@KevinWood44]

Dont mean to start this debate but iphone camera SUCK compared to Samsung. The camera on the new Samsung 20 Ultra is LEAPS beyond ANY other phone camera. Get one if u want to be able to compare spotters or just digiscope. Apple atarted those "we hate green bubble texts" to make people think Android phones were subpar and they absolutely are NOT!!

[@SandSArchery]

I've been telling Steve to get a pixel for years...

[@KevinWood44]

@@SandSArchery I have never used a Pixel I can only speak about the Galaxy's and they are amazing cameras/phones. Iphones warp their colors, especially their greens and it makes every photo look so bad IMO.