Swashbuckler in Player Core 2 - Winner of the Most Improved Class Award

[@LightningRaven42]

What I find it impressive is how hard Paizo fumbled the tease for the Swashbuckler. The class received a lot of great changes and the only interesting thing they actually showcased was the Bravado Trait. Aside from that, they showed a terrible Finisher (the throw-weapon one) that's only made good by another feat (the Quick Draw feat that enables a Interact to Draw+Strike/Finisher). And that's it. So many more interesting feats to showcase, such as "Get Used to Disappointment" or the bonkers Illimitable Finisher. Not to mention the free skill increase. I'm glad the first impression didn't stick, because this class is even better now and much more in line with the best designed classes of the system.

[@jessiada]

Swashbuckler was my first PF2e class and where I fell in love with the game, but damn was it frustrating to play sometimes. I'm so happy they fixed it!

[@gabrielrockman]

I still go for Panache every turn because Trip, Disarm, and Grapple are all incredibly useful actions (I have the Gymnast Swashbuckler). If I Trip an enemy, that enemy will have to waste one of their three actions on their turn to get up. If one of my allies gets a turn before their turn, that ally will get the benefit of attacking a prone enemy. If anyone provokes an attack of opportunity before the enemy's turn, the enemy has the -2 penalty to the attack for being prone. DIsarm, like Trip, will usualy cost the enemy 1 action, which if you outnumber the enemies in combat, it's like 12 actions versus 6 or 3 actions, so using 1 of your 12 actions to take away 1 of their 3 ot 6 actions is huge. Disarm also has a potentially encounter breaking Critical Success effect, especially when the DM describes your opponent as holding a magical item in their hand. And Grapple also costs them one or more actions, which again is useful if your party outnumbers the enemies. It also makes it very difficult for them to run away, or to chase your squishy allies. Even Tumble Through is situationally extremely useful, such as allowing you to move to a spot where you're flanking the enemy, and your ally will get their turn before the enemy gets a turn. Your ally will be very grateful if you make the enemy off guard to them without them having to spend an action to move. You can also use Tumble Through to get yourself out of a position where your enemies are flanking you. I haven't used Shove or Reposition yet, but there may come a time where moving an enemy will be very helpful. I really like how I'm not just moving and attacking in combat, but I get to consider tripping, disarming, grappling, shoving, and repositioning as well. It's also fun to talk to the DM to get a better description of the enemy to find out whether or not I can even trip or grapple them. Last week I actually grappled my own shadow to keep it from running away (we faced an enemy that separated my shadow from me). It's a lot more fun than playing a fighter that just moves and attacks during combat and doesn't really give much thought to any other actions.

[@MeatbagSlayer]

No Mist Finer here, but we certainly got combos.

[@joshuaturnquist5538]

Dirty Trick is a general feat, not just Swashbuckler only? I think I know a Triggerbrand in my friend group who would appreciate that, since it adds utility and scales off thievery.

[@Fogelhut]

It's a Skill Feat, even! Gotta be Trained in Thievery, though.

[@jonathanbennison9220]

I think, the Gymnast, Using assurance athletics, As 3rd or later actions, To shed MAP, And grab or trip an enemy, to impose off guard... Or even shove them for positioning... Can use assurance to target a weaker save, And Gain Panache at end of turn, to benefit from in future actions. Maybe. Even strike, assurance shove, then Stride with Panache speed. Could be a thing.

[@spider0804]

I am a Fighter / Wrestler currently and probably switching to Swashbuckler / Wrestler so I will get panache from doing what I am already doing, so yes.

[@jonathanbennison9220]

Excited.

[@valvadis2360]

Maybe Bravado actions are better as your third action instead of first, since even if you fail on them because of MAP, you will still have Panache in your next turn to use a Finisher and try a Bravado action again?

[@MrTallFrog]

Probably depends on what that actions is. If its a maneuver you may end your turn prone if you crit fail which would be more likely since it is affected by MAP.

[@joshuaturnquist5538]

Yeah, but crit fails don't give panache, and I think some of them have crit fail effects like the weapon not returning on a throw.

[@jonathanbennison9220]

10:26 Gain temp Panache, even on a failed Bravado attempt. That is a big deal. Essentially means you spend the action, to gain Panache. If you succeed on your check, you can sustain Panache longer... But even on a fail you can follow up the 'failed tumble' with a finisher? Makes failed Bravado seem like a Feint...

[@jonathanbennison9220]

6:06 "rather play a rogue" Sounds vaguely familiar.... Hahaha😂

[@jonathanbennison9220]

11:12 Compare Rogue Sneak Attack vs Swashbuckler Precise /. FINISHER Now. So rogues can land 1d6 sneak attack at low level. But swash can add +2 on similar qualified strikes. If they have Panache, they can deal 2d6 instead. With a low level finisher. Which should be enough to push past the Rogue baseline averages, when the finisher lands. The Rogue can roll low on 1d6, but should average slightly higher than flat 2. And the Rogue and swash can activate precise and sneak and Panache with many of the same actions. Ie. Tumble. Ie. Trip. So the action tax isn't necessarily high. A rogue might benefit slightly more easily from allied actions. Ie. Ally flanking, ally trips or grabs enemy. Ally otherwise leaves enemy off guard. Rogue profits free action tax rebate. The swash, will benefit the same for precise, but not gain free Panache.

[@jonathanbennison9220]

4:34 OK. They pulled out Precise Strike. So it's standalone and always on now. But upgraded, inside a finisher. OK.

[@RedsByrd]

I find it weird that you keep mentioning the minimum damage bonus from 2d6 being only 2, when that is a rather unlikely outcome. The average, and most likely out come is 7. So yeah if you use the finisher you could get no damage boost at all over normal precise strike, but most likely you’ll get a damage boost of 5. Which is substantial. Not to mention the half damage on a miss. And yeah you still have to make 2 checks to get the panache and finisher off, but the first check just has to not critically fail and you have a permanent +1 so it’s a low bar to clear. Even if you fail both the skill check and the attack roll you STILL deal so damage. And the success effects of the bravado actions are still decent. I think bravado is definitely still worth going for, and it’s now on par with spellstrike in termd of power and flair! Swashbuckler is what i’ve started with and im super happy

[@jonathanbennison9220]

7:56 Great Point. Definitely good advice to any Player / DM Move the speed bonus note, into Panache directly.

[@kryptonianguest1903]

When you say that panache might not be worth it, do you mean Tumble Through specifically? Because the sub-class specific ways to get panache are useful actions for their standard benefits, even to classes that don't get a bonus to the roll. So, swashbuckler's should be gaining panache as a side-effect of doing useful things that they would do anyway if panache didn't exist.

[@RebelThenKing]

Tumble Through for sure, but also the something daring that the GM deems worthy of panache, and even your subclass abilities. I'm more so thinking about more minor encounters, where you might prefer to simply stride, strike, strike or stride, strike, defensive action against multiple targets. I do think the key difference might be whether the swashbuckler is the party's main front line character or a secondary front-liner. If you're the main front line character your party might want you to consistently strike, but if you're a secondary front liner, taking those additional actions that can have some debuffing effects and set you up for a killing blow would be the way to go.

[@AndrewDavenport-v1r]

Swash

[@jonathanbennison9220]

5:34 Slightly better at a skill related to your Bravado style. Presumably including Tmuble Through. OK. Circumstance bonus equals Aid Ally. So no need with this active, to seek help. Status bonus. Please. Circumstance +1? Give it to someone else.

[@Offbeaten]

Why would I skip panache when it's so easy to get? I call my enemy a smelly poopoohead, get panache, stab them for extra damage. Run away.

[@jonathanbennison9220]

9:54 Woah Woah Woah. +1 equals moderately easier to gain Panache. Much easier goes a step too far.