Sweden never locked down. Here’s what happened.

"Sweden is the outlier," says Johan Norberg, senior fellow at the Cato Institute.
Watch the full replay of Norberg's conversation with Reason's Zach Weissmueller and Liz Wolfe: • The truth about Sweden...

[@user-zh9kc7tw4n]

What they forget is that Swedes was so glad that the 2m social distancing was over so they could go back to 5meters.

[@airborneranger-ret]

lol

[@montyalb8788]

I am not sure if I should be giving congratulations or condolences.

[@engmed4400]

I'm American, and have no swedish heritage that I'm aware of. However, now I think I might have to take another look at my family tree because 5 meters seems a bit too close for my taste. 😁

[@airborneranger-ret]

lol @@engmed4400

[@madsam0320]

When I was in my garden, my Swedish neighbor would be tending his own garden on the other side. When I was not in the garden, he will be on the near side, especially if his other neighbors were out on the other side. If we were all out both sides of him, he would be on the middle, but more often than not, just go inside his house.

[@Scoots1994]

I'm a liberal and reasonable guy but what pisses me off about this is that when it was happening I was saying that we had no real idea what the "right" decision was going to be and that it would take many years to actually know which decision was right. I was told angrily and repeatedly that I was a horrible person and akin to a murderer for suggesting maybe Sweden had it right.

[@jimpowell6789]

That's what happens with government and media collaborate to create mass hysteria verging into witch-hunting. Deliberately. Also, "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

[@Test-ju4fy]

The insane backlash tells you something unusual was up.

[@MrVikingmead]

Welcome to the crowd that used the club house in the middle. We only get two name tags to choose from though. Liberal or conservative.

[@kenham6742]

"I was told angrily and repeatedly that I was a horrible person..." me too! Then I started looking into the "right", and the more I dug, the more I found, the Republicans had nearly everything right!

[@bovineavenger734]

​@@MrVikingmeadLibertarian here, we used to be called liberals but then the assylum patients took over the name

[@MMM18092]

As others have pointed out, Swedes adopted a very cautious approach on a voluntary basis. I worked from home, did most of my shopping online, avoided public transport, didn't travel anywhere, didn't visit restaurants (did order some take away) and there were no cultural or sporting events to visit. In the summer of 2021, when things had calmed down, I visited Gothenburg and stayed on the 11th floor of an hotel. You wouldn't believe the number of people who physically stopped me from getting into "their" elevator because they didn't want to share it with a stranger! I ended up walking down 11 flights of stairs a couple of times per day!

[@Botjer1]

It was divided. I and many others did isolate, voluntarily. But I also know many who just didnt care and still went on with life as usual.

[@tbrown9491]

USA did all of that and much more crippling the economy and the govt printing trillions of dollars and then essentially forced and experimental treatment on people.

[@lunarath1]

Yeah I feel like the same happened in Denmark. Although we did have a couple times with a few weeks of total lockdown, it felt like we got over it very quickly compared to other countries. I only remember a few weeks or so of having to wear masks in public transport. People just seemed willing to keep distance from each other, and only leave the house when they actually had to. I remember being a little confused why other countries still enforced masks and even social distancing more than half a year after we went back to living like usual.

[@ivyr336]

You weren't in the majority. The streets were full. The gyms were full. Bars and clubs were full, even more so than usual because of the temporary rules that limited opening hours. Think this result is from our better health compared to Italy.

[@IStevenSeagal]

Some two annoying Swedes on an elevator tried that with me. I jumped on didn't care. I had an appointment and zero time, if they're afraid of me they can jump off.

[@RichardGeiszler]

Sweden understood covid was not the Black Death and acted accordingly.

[@stevemahoney1733]

@@albert7311 Really, how so? If those who died from Covid, not "with Covid' were all at or above the life expectancy age or with cormorbidities

[@catsupchutney]

The issue was flattening the curve so that hospitals had time to gear up. The lockdown was never going to directly reduce deaths, but at least the ER surge would be lessened and people could be treated (and doctors could learn what treatments worked best). I was neutral about the policy and genuinely curious about Sweden's outcome. By the way, some countries like Iceland abort all fetuses with Down Syndrome, so it's their call.

[@stevemahoney1733]

@@catsupchutney The flattening the curve arguement is a non starter. The world lockdown for 2 weeks so the hospitals & such could get ready......then it just continued for another what....50 weeks? In some countries closer to 2 years.

[@catsupchutney]

@@stevemahoney1733 Only two weeks huh? Well I stand corrected.

[@pshehan1]

No it was not the Black Death which killed about a third of the population of Europe, but it was bad enough and thousands of Swedes died because no action was taken.

[@poornoodle9851]

Sweden did a live simulation in a major city in 2010 to test how to respond to a COVID like virus. Many things were learned including that if you close elementary schools, doctors and nurses who are parents have to stay home with the kids and can’t take care of patients. Sweden implemented the lessons from 2010 when responding to COVID. What the health authority hadn’t realized was the degree to which elder care had become privatized during those 10 years. Sick employees went to their jobs in elder homes because they were worried about lost income or being fired. This also contributes to explaining some of the early deaths…

[@annabergman1166]

Also the winter before fewer old people died than usual (don't know if that flu season was milder) so there were more elderly around to get covid and die.

[@koff41]

In elder care they isolated them and if you had any sign of illnes they put the elder in palliative care instantly, yeah concentration cap. Regime saved a lot of money those months.

[@damyr]

Also, COVID related deaths were purposely inflated, in the whole world and especially in the US (because of financial benefits), in order to justify lockdowns, panic in governments and medical organizations, and to avoid possible repercussions. That was confirmed by research of NIH, as well as some other journalist researches.

[@tap10lan]

@@annabergman1166And at the same time as fewer elderly than usual died in Sweden, in Norway the opposite happened, so there were fewer around who were really susceptible.

[@sebastianw9187]

A factor that was rarely discussed was the timing of winter sports holidays. Stockholm was the only densely populated area of the Scandinavian countries that had vacation during week 9 of 2020. This was the week when the outbreak really accelerated around the world (not only in Italy), but awareness was still very low. If you look at the separate regions in Sweden, the numbers tell a clear story -- how it starts is how it ends. Regarding elderly care, one of the main issues was the fact that it was impossible to isolate wards due to architectural planning for a decade focusing on operational efficiency over stopping spread of disease. Once the virus entered a care home, it spread like wild fire. The greatest mistake from the swedish health officials was vagueness in communication. This required people to do A LOT of research to understand what was appropriate actions to take. They also underestimated how hard it is to realise that you have been infected. Even though symptomless transmission was very low, perhaps non-existant, most people with very vague symptoms didn't realise they had been infected until they were tested. A better way of communicating would have been to say, unless you can briskly walk up four flights of stairs without getting tired, you should assume that you are infected. For context, Johan Norberg is a political activist, and even though I think he makes some good points in this video, it is important to remember he doesn't point out that drawing parallells to the situation in the US is not relevant. Sweden is a country with.a stronger public health and social security system. People could afford to follow voluntary guidelines. In the US, the situation for a lot of people was very different.

[@Clembo]

>never locks down >beats the world >refuses to elaborate

[@joedennehy386]

It doesn't beat the world they had 4 times the death rate of new Zealand per capita

[@letoatreides8098]

Elaborate what?

[@annepoitrineau5650]

Did you read the comment of the guy who explained how they actually did it? the poster is called MMM18092 and they describe a situation of volontary isolation: @MMM18092 4 months ago (edited) As others have pointed out, Swedes adopted a very cautious approach on a voluntary basis. I worked from home, did most of my shopping online, avoided public transport, didn't travel anywhere, didn't visit restaurants (did order some take away) and there were no cultural or sporting events to visit. In the summer of 2021, when things had calmed down, I visited Gothenburg and stayed on the 11th floor of an hotel. You wouldn't believe the number of people who physically stopped me from getting into "their" elevator because they didn't want to share it with a stranger! I ended up walking down 11 flights of stairs a couple of times per day!

[@joangordoneieio]

People lost their jobs for supporting the Swedish model.

[@dand33911]

Yup. Huge blessing. People lost their jobs, sold their houses and moved near like minded people. They got debt free, started homesteading. Started their own business. Now we're ready for round 2. Bring it on. The people who didn't cuck and did the right thing need the attention. Not a whining ginger.

[@michaelwallden7261]

and what do U mean by that...that people not should follow sweden ....

[@Bingbangboompowwham]

People don’t own jobs. You can’t lose something that isn’t yours.

[@kmetcalfe]

Some people even lost their life. Who exactly do you think lost their job for supporting Sweden?

[@Noel-lt3ty]

@@Bingbangboompowwham stop being a politician

[@alhumphreys5784]

Sweden actually followed the pandemic playbook that all nations agreed upon. Every other nation went down the wrong road.

[@jeremyradford5103]

If you believe that, then I suggest you look at Sweden's death toll per capita from covid compared to many other countries that did lock down.

[@kmetcalfe]

Really? Most countries that successfully fought off Covid used the American playbook. And couldn't understand why we somehow were the only country with citizens who weren't.

[@jeremyradford5103]

@@albert7311 What has birth rates got to do with covid deaths?

[@unclefatbloke687]

@@jeremyradford5103 STOP changing the subject! alhumphreys was talking about the pandemic responses that each country had planeed for over the last couple of decades. NONE of them had previously determined that lockdowns was a viable strategy. But decades of planning was thrown out of the window, and the lying governements have not explained why to this day!

[@mikaj9884]

@@jeremyradford5103 you mean like UK's 325/100k vs Sweden's 235/100k?

[@Raxxa00]

Most likely, the Swedish approach was the right one for us here in Sweden. It doesn’t necessarily mean it would work as good in other countries. There are so many parameters to take into consideration when dealing with a situation like the Covid-19 pandemic. It’s rather pointless to discuss whether this and that country should’ve handled it like Sweden or vice versa. The important thing is that each country try to learn things from this experience, and use that knowledge to prepare for the next pandemic.

[@TFAric]

If I understood it right immigrants were over represented in the death rates, that might talk to that it is not for all countries. Swedish people are generally very trusting of the government and will listen (sometimes to much) to them.

[@MasterAndreRaven]

It's also worth acknowledging that the Swedish system for workers is more aimed towards the workers not the bosses. If you're feeling sick, you CAN stay home. You call in and don't feel like it's as much of a shameful thing (as it is in America -- bit of background here, I'm a 32-year-old American who recently emigrated to Sweden and have spent half a year here now). You aren't obligated to come in to work. You don't have the looming threat of "We'll find someone else to replace you, so you have to come in" over you at all times. So my understanding of how Sweden reacted to the pandemic is based around the idea that nobody felt forced to go to work if they were feeling sick, helping greatly to prevent the unmitigated spread of the virus. Couple this with the fact that Swedes tend to be very insular people by nature unless they know certain people very well, there would already be an avoidance of others that would have slowed the spread. TL;dr: What happened in Sweden could really only happen in Sweden because of the way that Swedish culture is so terribly Swedish.

[@channie3473]

​@@TFAric The study you're referencing published by the Public Health Agency of Sweden (Folkhälsomyndigheten) does show an over representation of death rates in people born outside of Sweden. One thing to note though is that this was mainly the case for people aged 60+, i.e. seniors, and most deaths were in people with underlying or pre-existing conditions most likely due to lacking access to healthcare in earlier stages of life.

[@TFAric]

@@channie3473 That make allot of sense.

[@olofsandberg1125]

Agree, so sad we dont make it official of how right we were.

[@rayboish]

I live in England and during the Covid lockdown my wife could not get screened for a check for possible cancer as the ward shut for 3 months. I knew at the time that the Government had lost all sense of proportion in shutting down important NHS wards and would have adverse long term excess deaths which we have subsequently seen.

[@janiceworsfold7775]

I was shouted down by my husband for suggesting we let it run and not shut everything down. How he has changed his mind. We will be paying for this and not just monetary for a very very long time. I can't tell you how angry I am at those who did this to us. one big social experiment.

[@trog.lodyte]

@@janiceworsfold7775 This is just the beginning, it ain't over yet.

[@jeremyradford5103]

You do realise there are hundreds of covid related deaths a week in the UK today? The covid lockdowns were necessary to control the spread of the disease but were all at least 2 weeks in being enforced, which meant they were longer and less effective than they needed to be.

[@rayboish]

@@janiceworsfold7775 I said at work that the cure is going to end up causing more deaths than save, they thought I was bonkers !!

[@davidkermes376]

rayboish, if your wife had died during that period how much you want to bet they would have attributed it to covid?

[@ImMacke3000]

As a swede, i think i could explain one REALLY important thing about (most of) us: We take personal space REALLY seriously. You dont really talk to "random people", if you do, youre seen as a weirdo or drunk. We never really sit next to someone we dont know on bus stops, busses, waiting lobbies etc unless ABSOLUTELY necessarly. If youve ever ridden a bus in sweden its usually concidered "full" when half the seats are taken (becuase we dont want to sit next to a stranger) so people start standing

[@BenelliMr]

these are the reasons why I would never like to visit Sweden; I definitely prefer teh south, for the warm weather and even more for the warm culture. I am happy for you if you are happy.

[@DrPotatoX]

THIS, I love my personal space

[@pittan86]

Nah total exagerration. People sit next to each other all the time when one seat is taken and there is a free one next to it. Small talk can happen anytime anywhere, its a matter of degrees compared to other countries. You're not considered weird if you talk to someone you don't know. If you are not acting weird that is.

[@kristofferhellstrom]

As another Swede I don't really understand what you're talking about. Most of us don't have any problems talking to other people. Riding the bus and sitting next to another person if other places are free is just weird. That's standard in most countries.

[@NomineName]

Abit exagerrated, but i generally agree. A buss that is filling up completely will eventually have everyone sitting down and standing up, just to make space - but there is always a midphase that occurs where most people - and i do mean most people - would rather stand than sit next to another.

[@sonnythorelli-hw7rj]

We need to recognize, even if Sweden didn’t close down the society, nor recommended waring masks, there was number of recommendation put in place by authority to limit and slow down the spread. There was 1.5 m distance in queues and between tables at restaurants, no crowds at the bar but guests was seated at same distance. Stores let in a maximum number of customers per square meters, so stores had some fun games and lottery in the queue outside the store to keep waiting customers mode up. Larger events like theaters were closed, though. People did not invite for big parties and weddings only invited the closest family. However, a vulnerability model can probably only work if population have trust in the authorities and believe those make sense. If population lack the trust in authority, it would probably not matter whatever recommendations made.

[@rychei5393]

Bingo.

[@S9999Frank]

One might also do well to remember tha tales from Swedish nurses who were on the verge of breaking down due to being totally overworked during covid, there were also deaths among healthcare professionals. Also, Sweden's old were hit really hard at the start of pandemic, due to insufficient protection from the virus in the old peoples homes. If one compare Sweden to Norway, which had stricter policies, Sweden did not do well at all, but if one compares to much bigger countries with denser population, Sweden did ok.

[@HenrikJansson78]

@@S9999Frank Hmm.. Did you watch the clip? Sweden did better than Norway in the long run. It started out worse, but in the end we came out on top. Looking at the excess death rate we had the lowest in Europe. And that is the number that does not care how you define "death by Covid".

[@krollpeter]

Bingo, too. Swedish people come with built-in natural social distancing, it was easy for them to follow the recommendations. As well, they have trust in their health authorities, because they are not politicised. People of many other countries thought and still think this to be a limitation of their freedom. There was a joke, don't know where it stems from. Swedish government: "We recommend 1.5 m distance." Swedish people: "What ... so close??"

[@krollpeter]

@@S9999Frank And if you count away these mistakes from the beginnings, then Sweden looks not any worth than most other countries, in some ways better. As it is said in the video, it hit Sweden early ... and yes, they did do mistakes with the elderly.

[@RyeOnHam]

Lots of this has to do with the overall intelligence and education level of your average Scandinavian. They are smart and educated enough to understand the way the disease spreads and take reasonable precautions. Also, getting sick in a country of healthy people means you're more likely to survive. Finally, fewer of those infected had the risk factors for mortality. I lost my elderly father to COVID-19, but he was already in a nursing home. The home locked down and even his wife wasn't allowed to be there when he died. The lock-down didn't prevent him from getting sick, though.

[@vedinthorn]

A shotgun is pretty good for getting into locked buildings.

[@HarveyTAS]

By "politics" you mean lying to protect your boss.

[@jimpowell6789]

No, lying to protect the rich investor class, the 0.1% one in a thousand who own 30% of America -- a controlling share invested in all key central elements of the economy -- including media. Liars for hire.

[@michaelplunkett5124]

I’m a physician. The biggest reason the US did worse than many other developed countries was obesity. We matched a lot countries in every thing else but we have 50% obesity and after advanced age, obesity was the biggest (no pun intended) marker for death. (The average European woman weighs 25 lbs. less than her American counterpart. Similar for men.)And the second reason was our poor uptake of the vaccine. Lockdowns and masks were proven wrong, most emphatically by Sweden. And note that neither the FDA, CDC, nor Dr. Fauci funded a single test on masking. They didn’t want to risk losing to “the science.” They preferred faith based nostrums.

[@annathemaanderson4448]

This was the best summation that I have heard. I would give it a million thumbs up if I could!

[@gsadow]

Interesting points. However, I might point out that the difference in obesity rates should be indicated in the excess death statistics. Furthermore, for older people, clearly those who are by far most susceptible to Covid, the vaccination rates in the US were very high. Claims about low vaccination rates in the US ignored the age cohorts.

[@jimpowell6789]

As a physician you should also be aware that America's public health statistics are worse than many third world countries. We come in 37th in healthy child-births, and similarly across the board. And this although Americans pay twice as much per capita as anyone else in the world for "health care." Americans start out less healthy in many many ways, including but by no means limited to obesity. And then, the health care we pay double for is seriously sub-standard. That's why, although we have only 4% of the world's population, we have 16% of its COVDI deaths. Physician, heal thyself. And the start of that, is know thyself.

[@aquaticaaficionado2004]

@@gsadow Really would depend on exactly how they are calculating excess death. If they are using any approximation of the standard calculation (expected subtracted from observed) then obesity would be baked into the cake as it isn't new in the US. I wouldn't put it past the US govt to have some weird method of doing it to benefit some random (big donors) interest group.

[@aquaticaaficionado2004]

@@jimpowell6789 Not sure you would be so adamant about this if you'd ever experienced "free" healthcare or healthcare in "third world" countries. Now WHY do you suppose most "developed" nations that have "free" healthcare also have a black market for healthcare (was ignorant of this too, until I needed it)? WHY do most "third world" and "developed" nations come to the US for treatment for the most serious issues? . . . Most people that complain like this simply would not survive in these other countries because the medical industry (and almost everything else) is not NERFED like it is in the US. When I was in S. Korea and had my wisom teeth removed, they gave me a list of medications to buy at a local pharmacy. I didn't even need a prescription to buy opiates and anesthesia. . . How do think that would play out in the US? We can't even handle weed and alcohol responsibly. At least six nations I've been to will sell the strongest antibiotics OVER THE COUNTER, all "third world" nations. The ONE and ONLY time I needed medical care in a "free" healthcare nation it was outright denied and I had to have a "street" Doc sew me up. Also, this is what happens when lawyers run the country. . . they tell everyone else what is allowed even if they have no clue how to make things work. Oh, and healthcare isn't "free" in ANY nation. Either you pay for it upfront to the governement in taxes, pay a middle man (insurance), or you pay the Doc. Personally I would rather pay the Doc and cut out the other two grifters. . . and please stop with the "third world" narrative, we all know what that alludes to. Most of these nations are just as developed as anything in the west and often times their culture makes them FAR superior. Doctors in the US used to be able to afford independent clinics and they were WAY cheaper. Might want to learn why that went away. . . Educate thyself.

[@mikaj9884]

As a Swede and scientist, I always laughed at Fergusons numbers.. He works with pseudoscience, it's ridiculous that any government would create policy based on it

[@grahambell4298]

And let's not forget that Ferguson was quite happy for his married mistress to break the restrictions his figures were effectively responsible so that she could visit him for sex...

[@chriswilliams8607]

Me too, it was shocking and appalling how lobbyists and cargo-cult "scientists" influenced and corrupted almost all governments, i would have never thought that it could be possible as this crap was so obvious an organized crime pulled off by the usual suspects like Gates, Fauci, Drosten..... how on earth could people not get suspicious once scientists like Ioannidis, Bhakdi and hundreds more were defamed, silenced, censored and threatened.... we are witness to a total failure of society and medical science. Fallout of this totalitarian and terrible crisis will be noticeable for decades. The socio economic impact has already killed 30 million people worldwide and millions more will die as a result of lockdows, mask terror and the largest medical experiment ever conducted which turns out to be a total failure.

[@ramonbril]

Government is mafia. So not ridiculous at all.

[@joshuarichardson6529]

It's called "scare-mongering" and the authorities have been using it to take away people's liberties since the French Revolution and the "Committee of Public Safety".

[@sdrc92126]

I made my own models and came up with very similar numbers, but that was in January 2020 using the values from the initial Lancet paper when it was published (15% mortality and r0 of 6.5 IIRC). I think by March 2020, more data were available (Diamond Princess and Italy) and shown to be extremely skewed to the sick and elderly and that the whole thing mostly a nothing burger.

[@Ricehigh85]

I think it is important to note that it isn't as if Sweden didn't have social distancing measures. I don't know the full story, as I only moved here in the latter half of the pandemic, but even then there were mask mandates many places - including on my job. Places with any social activity such as gyms, climbing centres or concert halls, would have a limit to how many people could be there and a mask mandate. My girlfriend who lived here during the entirety of the pandemic worked from home that entire time, which was normal to do if you had a job that would allow it. Sweden had looser restrictions than other countries, like Norway, where I lived before, but it is far from the case that there were no restrictions, even if not a full lockdown.

[@PennyAfNorberg]

mask if you had symptoms and needed to go out is i remembers correctly.

[@matthenley3886]

There were lots of measures in places. Things like cinemas/nightclubs/gyms were closed gatherings over a certain amount were not allowed. Universities all went to distance learning. Other places like shops/restaurants/bars had a limited capacity based on their size. Also it’s important to note that even though you could go to bars and restaurants most people didn’t, I went to some during civic and they were pretty much empty! So yes there was no lockdown but it was very far from life as normal

[@sebastians1770]

@@matthenley3886 Where do you get this from? I moved back to Sweden from Italy in the beginning of the pandemic and during the time I was in Stockholm, which was the whole pandemic, I could always go to gym and nightclubs. The only weird measure was that in the nightclub we were not allowed to walk around or dance, but stay at the tables with our groups.

[@matthenley3886]

@@sebastians1770 I lived there during the whole pandemic. Nightclubs were closed for sometime then reopened but the dance floor was off limits so they weren’t really operating as a nightclub ( plus there were limits on the number of people and like you say, table service only). Also gyms weren’t closed for the whole time but they were for periods. What I’m saying is there were a lot of measures in place and people weren’t living ‘normally’ even if they could to some extent. I went to bars and restaurants during Covid and they were very empty most of the time.

[@Mordred952]

i honestly didnt notice it at all but never had to wear masks or anything of the sort. but i live in the countryside

[@buneres]

One thing to remember is that all cultural activities in sweden where under severe restrictions during the pandemic. Most theatres closed, most concert venues, most restaurants, sporting events etc. So there was a kind of a lock down, but it was never official, since it was mostly regulated by distance mandates making it impossible to keep open.

[@emptyforrest]

also the swedish culture already practiced social distance before the pandemic. and even our biggest cities isnt as densly crowded as other large cities in the world. trying to mimic our aproach would be impossible for almost every other contries for these reasons.

[@ivyr336]

Clubs, gyms were still open. Our restrictions are barely worth bringing up since they barely existed. And they came very late. Can always look up old articles of the scientists that wee mad at how nothing was done.

[@dallysinghson5569]

Clubs and gyms are inhabited by the young and healthy.

[@dallysinghson5569]

City density is no big deal as communical disease is spread by personal closeness, not density of buildings.

[@vet2238]

Impossible, we all know no people ever do a reasonable thing unless the government makes it mandatory! ;)

[@markdevine7934]

In Sweden, the social welfare system allows for things like parents staying home with kids (and still receiving an income), staying home from work if you feel at all sick (and still receiving an income and not risk losing your job), and universal healthcare that doesn't stop people from seeking medical treatment. Swedes also are generally healthier, eat healthier food and get daily exercise by doing things like biking to work.

[@sebastianluther]

How did you survive the pandemic without a vaccine? Healthy food, sun, and exercise.

[@sebastianluther]

No - I like the European way. If you are sick - you stay at home. Not like Asia. Masks are necessary there, because it is expected to show up sick. Masks should have never been mandatory in Europe. We love the freedom way.

[@eriklarsson3188]

Most mothers stayed at home with their children, and afterwards most of them wanted to remain at home with their children. I don't know what it was like in other countries such as England, Germany etc.

[@AakeTraak]

@@sebastianluther Yes, no healthy people died of covid. At least noone who lived to tell me about it.

[@peterp4037]

nah, sweden already has digital id and they are almos cashless for years. That is the real reason.

[@Perisa79]

And also not to forget, many countries counted deaths different. And some stopped counting when the numbers started to look bad..

[@GF-qb3uo]

Different methods of data collection make many comparisons between countries well nigh impossible if one is honest.

[@MrHarumakiSensei]

@@GF-qb3uo if people can't observe in their own experience that significantly more of them are dying than usual, it's not a pandemic.

[@petramaas8574]

Other countries increased the number of deaths by counting every person that tested positive for COVID-19 as a COVID death, even if the cause of death was clearly something else, like a gun shot. The aim was to spread fear.

[@ricardomroberto]

This is true but is why there is also a graph of total excess deaths in the video

[@GF-qb3uo]

@@petramaas8574 The US did its fair share of the same. Only recently have the powers that be started to acknowledge that there was a difference between dying "of COVID" and "dying with COVID." We also had totally unrelated deaths categorized as COVID deaths--e.g., a car accident death in FL was an egregious example (Newsweek, "Florida Man Killed in Crash Listed as COVID-19 Death, Raising Doubts Over Health Data"). This is what happen when the gov't sets up a system of perverse incentives.

[@emameyer]

small correction. at 1:50 you say "from COVID19". it's actually "with COVID-19". very few, healty people without any other serious condition died from COVID-19.

[@frodej6640]

The question is "how does people die?". Then how does people die from the flu? How does people die from covid, or with covid? If you look into this you will find that people who die from old age have a ton of different serious problems, and it is usually unclear which one was the straw that broke the camels back. But they usually put something on the certificate and thats that. This changed with covid. Before you died from whatever cause the doctor think it was, to putting covid on the certificate if the person was positive regardless of what was the probable cause. The flu and covid is supposedly causing a respiratorial infection which is of no problem for most people. For those who ended up in hospital because of "the flu", 99% was treated and survived if they got to a good hospital. The problem is that - some - develop complications like pneumonia or ARDS. The question I have is how these was identified and treated before and after "covid". As long as nobody want to go into the detail and actually detail what covid is and how it actually causes death, it will be a pointless discussion.

[@paulsoxl7739]

🎯

[@cobrellie]

Agreed … I have been correcting people about the difference between dying from Covid and dying with Covid …

[@andrewkimber6183]

this is a huge correction! the deliberate use of 'from' rather then 'with' led to terrible lockdown policy being maintained

[@randomgeocacher]

Yup. And “death with Covid” tells you how good you are at testing / detecting Covid in the dead. Sweden having low excessive death and moderate Covid death likely means we tested the dead much better than many countries with lower Covid death numbers.

[@petewerner1494]

Herd immunity has really been observed in the Amish and Mennonite communities. Take that as a very serious lesson!

[@DrJohnnyJ]

Herd immunity kills millions. Take that as a serious lesson.

[@petewerner1494]

You'd better get your head out of that box you've been taught out of and investigate with an open mind!@@DrJohnnyJ

[@Test-ju4fy]

Notice the way the interviewer brought up that the policy wasn't about "heard immunity"? Remember what a dangerous word that was? You absolutely weren't allowed to believe that heard immunity was possible; this was supposed to be a magical, terrifying new disease for which immunity could never exist.

[@robovac3557]

Please tell me you know its herd?

[@johnsmithers8913]

​@@robovac3557 Don't be a grammar N@zi. It isn't attractive. Most people write these comments on their cell phones at their desk during work. The rush combined with auto-spell makes any comments with no spelling or grammatical errors a miracle.

[@kmetcalfe]

Herd immunity is not a strategy. It’s a reflection of total incompetence. It requires people to have gotten the virus, rather than protect against it, which is not smart considering how easily it spread, and able to kill and hospitalize several vulnerable groups.

[@NotQuiteFirst]

@@robovac3557 I heard immunity is to be desired

[@robovac3557]

@@NotQuiteFirst You heard correctly my friend.

[@EterPuralis]

Honestly kinda miss pandemic Sweden... there were no people out for no reason, so i could go to work and have the entire street to myself! So relaxing

[@DIProgan]

Your Swedish vibe checks out

[@aliceberethart]

I agree that it was quite relaxing in that regard. I remember taking the subway every morning and none was on it. And when the pandemic ended my morning commute turned from calm to chaos. 😂

[@carls8286]

Yeah.. I idnt really notice it... The office was a little more empty than usual..

[@Partrik]

I agree, especially during the fall and winter months when I commuted two hours a day in the dark and had my own train car and ate candy and watched movies. Winter is long, but I would've liked to stay in that situation a little bit longer...

[@jattikuukunen]

I'm finnish, and I think 2020 was honestly the best year of this decade so far. Every year since then has been worse and worse for me personally. For me, 2020 was also better then a few years before it.

[@kevinlytle6215]

Stark contrast indeed. Reason and real science over political bias.

[@azsunburns]

Covid unveiled how pompous humanity can be when wrapped in authority.

[@7duke77]

My takeaway from the real data is that Sweden's approach proved that total lockdowns are ineffective, but wise recommendations combined with very specific limitations (like temporarily ceasing large gathering such as concerts, sports games, et. al.) is the best balance in managing a viral breakout.

[@deek0146]

Everyone saw the sense in some restrictions, like closing concerts etc. Total lockdown of society was madness and everyone could see it except the politicians.

[@SoloRenegade]

Sweden did what long established science has always said to do

[@Theactivepsychos]

That’s not true at all. In the U.K. the lockdowns took the hospitalisation rate down and “Acting two weeks earlier would have reduced cases by 93%, resulting in between 26,000 and 43,000 fewer deaths.” Many people in the U.K. had no socially aware behaviour and this created a situation where enforcement was necessary. Sweden didn’t have that issue and their citizen by and large acted sensibly and maturely.

[@aquaticaaficionado2004]

Completely depends what kind of "viral breakout." If it is respiratory and has a low death rate for the young and healthy, like covid, then MORE concerts would have been the best strategy while isolating the vulnerable. We KNEW early that it was the elderly and obese at risk and STILL pretended like we didn't know. MORE concerts while isolating the vulnerable gets the healthy to acquire immunity and denies additional opportunities for mutation. Epidemic burns itself out before it can trickle into the vulnerable community. The way we did it allowed it to trickle from one community to the next using the healthy as a resevoir with multiple mutations along the way. We have many studies that have put out paths like this, and we ignored them and pretended everyone was vulnerable when they KNEW who was and wasn't. Then we stoked FEAR.

[@Theactivepsychos]

@@aquaticaaficionado2004 you’re ignoring the fact that the first wave saw even young and healthy people hospitalised and the lockdowns and shutdowns were to prevent hospitals being over run. This was what they said at the time, after e fact and in the analysis of the events.

[@KentMLewis]

Anyone who did a modicum of research knew in March 2020. We were lied to, and Reason had it wrong then. Still waiting for their admission of error.

[@magnusdanielsson2749]

Whats even more interesting is how some countries still have very high excess deaths. And strangely almost no one talk about it.

[@garthdryland]

Not hard to see why. Those with high deaths either got vaccinated well after disease set in or not much at all in comparison to countries like Sweden

[@Baard2000]

​@@garthdrylandhigh vax rates often go along with very strict lockdowns. Which of both contributed in what percentage to excess deaths. Pro vaxx will state very often we dont know. Anti vaxx the accuse vax . Probably the truth lies in the middle

[@mynameismynameis666]

yeah, f.e. american schoolchildren

[@magnusdanielsson2749]

@@garthdryland one would think so but a big share (in the UK almost half) of the excess deaths are in the 0-49 age group. And some of countries with lower excess deaths at the moment like Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria etc had very low vaccination spread. So its still a bit strange Id say. (To be clear Im talking about the current/recent excess death from 21 when most people were vaccinated and omicron was dominant until now when the figures still are high in many countries)

[@gottagowork]

​@@magnusdanielsson2749 Bulgaria is even waaaaaay higher than US cumulatively, Hungary slightly less cumulatively. Both during significant parts of the pandemic ranking waaaaay above even the US (per capita) in excess deaths from all causes. Maybe lower excess deaths now are because so many of them already perished? New Zealand managed to shut Covid out and are extremely well fully vaccinated, and they're at around net 0% excess deaths cumulatively with nothing special showing up isolating back to January. Source: Ourworldindata. What's yours? 🙄

[@utoobuser206]

The reaction to covid caused WAY more harm than any possible good and still continues

[@teijaflink2226]

Tegnell was actually part of helping to stop the spread of Ebola too. I'm not saying Sweden did perfectly (no one really knew what would be best though) but the disrespect he got in the beginning specially was ridiculous considering the expertise and experience he actually had behind, specially compared all the sudden internet pandemic experts.

[@grandroyal66]

It was a manhunt.. but he repeated: Vaccinate, keep distance, stay home if you're feeling ill, no big events and that wearing a mask was only needed for healthcare personnel. Most important: Vaccination. That this video did not mention anything about? Rarely no one knew or heard about someone refusing to take the vaccine. But they thought they were many thanks to some flat earth KZbin channels spreading disinformation and straight up lies. We had only a few brainwashed morons that believed in Trump.

[@Sahira-123]

Go back in time and do some research about this whole thing and the so called swine flu...they are not honest at all...check out the conferences were 1000 medical, professors etc held this year. NOT ONE single report in media about that!! :) Läkaruppropet, sjuksköterskeuppropet and many sites about the side effects. Horrible reading here in Sweden as all over the world...I wonder: when police arrest children, elderly and parents for playing football outside on our national flag day but totally ignored the thousands of football supporters, roaming the streets of Stockholm after a big game, and concerts were held around Europe but not one single case of covid was ever reported! It does make you wonder...Tegnell was hired by the state. Go back in time and listen to the pandemic we had 2018.....not many knows about that since media kept silent. And read up on the former state epidemiologists; some good reading there, folks!

[@Merecir]

Well, in the beginning he did make ridiculous statements, like that there were no direct flights between Sweden and China so there were no need for regulating those flights.

[@huldu]

If covid would have turned into ebola I'd suspect most people in Sweden would be dead today.

[@martenthornberg275]

There's a P1 documentary about him that you should listen to before spreading the idea he helped stop Ebola.

[@BadUncleIke]

Does anybody still wonder why people question authority? Perhaps it's because they really don't know what they are doing.

[@hattorihanzo2275]

Fauci and Cuomo were a deadly duo.

[@kevindarroch7332]

And Bill Gates? And did he make money on some of this?

[@Bingbangboompowwham]

Not as deadly as Trump. At least Fauci was trying to give good advice. Trump couldn’t care less if people inject bleach into their veins.

[@Hirnlego999]

No, Trump was He downplayed something very deadly and sent a lot of his supporters six feet under way too early

[@Hirnlego999]

@@kevindarroch7332 Gates was one of those who warned about a coming pandemic. Obama/Biden as well. Trump obviously didn't listen

[@MikieSWE]

As a teacher in post school education, during the pandemic outbreak, late February, we closed down the school for 3 weeks, and had distance education before the guidelines came up how to be distanced, keep clean, dont touch anyone,dont touch anything that anyone else touch, dont touch your own face, and spirit hands. We never used mask in school. We used the policy if you feel cold, stay home, until feel ok again. All other preschools, schools had their shutdowns for weeks and months. Clubs and restaurants was closed. When the restrictions lifted, restaurants had 4 seats per table and least 2m distance to next table. Our school was the only one that never closed down, except the early 3 weeks when no info was available. In the fall when the covid was going down somewhat, I knew our policy in Sweden and the one in our school, was the right way of thinking. How the result was going I had no clue of, but I was never worried. I am amazed about these numbers even I suspected Sweden wasnt that bad that people and media described. I am very happy that we got some high level science in Sweden that show, knowledge, good thinking and strategy pays off.

[@jermainemyrn19]

They did better than us because they're better than us. It's that simple

[@ForTehNguyen]

they definitely are healthier. Covid exposed how unhealthy the US was, huge majority of the deaths were people with multiple comorbidities (diabetes, overweight, heart disease). People in countries that are less obese had less deaths as a %

[@Mrbfgray]

US numbers were automatically inflated due to incentives, med institutions were paid to label a fatality Covid regardless that said individual was morbidly obese, dying of cancer or cardiovascular disease or whatever but also had Covid.

[@shuriken4852]

The thing that is not taken into consideration, is what the isolation for almost 3 years did to many people. The suicide rate here in Canada went from 2.7% of adults to 4.2%.

[@mka4pol]

Unfortunately, your little Napoleon wasn't among them.

[@jefferymadison1287]

@@mka4pol our baby-faced hitler.

[@robertleng781]

Many no doubt assisted by the government themselves

[@honestchris7472]

@@mka4pol we were not in isolation for three years, we had patches of it for a few months at a time.

[@MA-ik7ys]

and the economy suffered

[@flaps1000]

The people responsible for Sweden’s response during COVID should get some form of Nobel prize. Their bravery in the face of the onslaught from the media (like the smug questioning shown here) in favour of freedom and civil liberties was incredible. The fact that they have now been entirely vindicated is a bonus, but even if they had not been, it was important for the world that someone put a higher value on these things and didn’t just throw away the hard won freedoms based on an excel spreadsheet.

[@user-je3sk8cj6g]

That will never happen. Mainstream media won't touch that subject ever, in no nation in this world. This KZbin video will probably be one of the few sources to ever talk about it.

[@gusvalour]

Nobel prize for what? 3 generations from now people will forget all about this detail. People hardly even remember what was done during the Spanish flu, or that babies were dying and people were becoming crippled before the measles and polio vaccines. Well, maybe for the masses like you.

[@John-ok8ts]

They were not vindicated. Sweden may have not had state forced lockdowns but people still socially distanced etc. Plus the lockdowns were to prevent against the unknown. Had what happened in Wuhan or even Italy occurred what would you have said then? Thankfully they got lucky and virus mutated to something less deadly far quicker than expected

[@honestchris7472]

There is a big difference between Sweden and the UK, Sweden is almost twice the size of the UK and only has ten million people, compared to the UK that has sixty seven point three people. We are far more condensed as a population and the virus was not so easy to contain. The same applied to all large countries with a lower population. Another thing is that if people had stuck to the rules that were made to try to contain the virus, perhaps we would have had fewer deaths.

[@rainydaytodayey3071]

​@@honestchris7472I think your right about that. Different societies need different strategies to cope with these situations. The way Sweden acted was right for us, it doesn't mean that it would have been right for the UK.

[@The-Jokes-on-You]

Imagine what all the numbers would really look like if the deaths were counted properly & not financially incentivised & manipulated.

[@theonetocomeifyoubelieveit]

yeah even in sweden numbers are manipulated. For example everyone who got the vaccine and got sick within 2 weeks did not count as vaccinated. And if they died it counted as covid related death not vaccine related.

[@andycapsphotos]

As a Swede myself, I can say that Swedes are socially distant as it is, and I think that is the largest factor overall.

[@preppen78]

It was life as usual here in Sweden - as little social contact as possible

[@anotherelvis]

And furthermore the elderly don't live with their children, so they were able to self isolate.

[@snowman8241]

I live in Sweden, and have experienced all of the Covid-19 pandemic here. My point of view has, since the pandemic started, that a pandemic is a long distance race and not a sprint. When you participate in the Vasa ski race (90 km/56 miles) it is a bad idea to spend all of your energy climbing the first hill, you must pace yourself so you have enough energy to cross the finish line. In the same spirit, it is a bad idea to panic and lock yourself up when a pandemic breaks out. It is necessary to take on some amount of risk in order to handle a pandemic, since it lasts about three years. But the key word is CALCULATED RISK. I did go to the shop in order to buy food etc, but I made what I could to avoid shopping during rush hour. I canceled some activities, like bowling, as they were an unnecessary risk. I also kept an eye on the Covid-19 deth statistics, and was more careful during high risk times and relaxed when the number of cases was down. I traveled less, but during times with low number of cases I did visit my family. I feel that this is a viable strategy, and that it avoids unnecessary infections while preserving mental health. Edit: corrected spelling

[@calvinloh2460]

You're much different from many of these anti-vaxxers and anti-lockdown people. THEY want to go to parties, disco and concerts everyday if they're given the chance. Sad to say, many countries are dominated by people like them.

[@Knightmessenger]

It would have helped if people had given an accurate prediction of how long the pandemic would actually last and what it would take to end it. Total lockdown for 2 weeks is doable. Two years is insanity.

[@osj237]

@@Knightmessenger I did read about epidemics and pandemics on Wikipedia, and it was obvious that it would take years rather then weeks. In combination with other sources, I decided that an expectation of three years of pandemic, or possibly more, would be reasonable. To be cautious, but taking calculated risks when necessary, seemed to be the best solution. I still practice some measures, like planing a menu for the coming week and trying to shop as few times as possible. I also avoid shopping during rush hours and on days where others frequently go out to spend their money.

[@jmrm01]

​@@Knightmessenger A pandemic of a new disease is more like a sprint than a long distance race. In March 2020, when most of the world shutdown, there were no known treatments for CoVid. The death rate from CoVid was much higher than six months later, or a year later. Sweden did a poor job of identifying deaths due to CoVid. The Excess Death Rate greatly increased (Excess Deaths is a comparison of the number to deaths during a particular time period to the average number of deaths in that same time period in previous years). Deaths in Sweden exceeded its neighbors who had stricter lockdowns. As you say, the Swedish government did issue guidelines for social distancing. Enough people followed those guidelines that the economic slowdown during the first pandemic wave in Sweden was similar to economic impacts in surrounding countries. So, the economic cost was similar, but the death toll was higher. The pandemic does come in waves, and between waves and in later waves it is appropriate to loosen restrictions. Once doctors learned to treat CoVid, the percentage of fatal cases started to drop.

[@calvinloh2460]

@@Knightmessenger To be fair, many places had only short lockdowns at first. They only started shifting to longer lockdowns when hospital systems couldn't cope with the infectivity and fatalities. Too many news stories of hospitals kicking out patients with minor issues to make place for covid patients and their assisted breathing systems. Every time public health officials thought they managed to get a grip on covid, a new wave of infections showed up. It wasn't until vaccines finally showed up that the tide started turning.

[@lynnex17]

Free societies do not have medical tyranny. Any decisions to lock anything down or restrict behavior ought to remain with each of us..as individuals, businesses etc to consult with medical experts and act according to our own situations,..needs and preferences.

[@chadparsons50]

💯

[@direwolf6234]

when does public health become a shared responsibility ??

[@ancabostinariu6550]

Hard to believe

[@kmetcalfe]

Yet I bet you would change your mind in a second if you knew a parent was going to let their highly infectious child go to school in your child's class. Hell, you probably wouldn't even accept a parent letting their kid with lice knowingly sit next to yours. Or a waiter who tells you he never washes his hands after using the restroom because disease is just a myth spread by the big-Soap industries. It isn't medical tyranny to restrict dangerous behavior that spreads among the unwilling and unknowing.

[@chadparsons50]

@@direwolf6234 are you conflating/confusing public health and individual health? If something is truly the black death most people will respond with a corresponding amount of caution imo.

[@JoseFernandes-gf8gc]

Give that man the Nobel prize!

[@20alphabet]

I should get a No Bell prize. Never liked doorbells. I much prefer knockers, BIG, ROUND KNOCKERS.

[@PennyAfNorberg]

Which price? They are serval, and the covid vaccin renderad a medicine price this year.

[@68Tboy]

I still don’t have any personal friends or family members in my immediate circle die from Covid. I’ve had friends of friends die, or family of friends die. But no one I knew personally knew. To put this in perspective nobody during the Spanish flu could have said that. My great grandmother didn’t go to school for two years after the Spanish wrecked her town and she saw bodies stacked up in her neighbors yard.

[@elib9002]

And I knew people personally who died of the v4× And you see them all over TV now. Nobody on TV died of the 60v1d

[@trog.lodyte]

Important distinction is died from or with, they skewed the data to push the narrative.

[@xxxBradTxxx]

Same here, my 60 year old parents got it and survived

[@larrywillard844]

In March 2020 who knew if COVID-19 was worse or weaker than the Spanish Flu? It did spread fast. New York City had bodies stacked up at one point (that city hit early in March2020). During the next years many of us did get COVID, but did not die, I am uncertain what percent of Spanish Flu infections did or did not result in deaths, in comparison. My mother died with COVID Spet2022. Why didn't your great grandmother go to school for two years, self-isolation or lock down?

[@68Tboy]

@@larrywillard844 I'm sorry to hear about your mother. I hope you got to see her before she passed. We actually did know COVID was not as bad as the Spanish Flu very early. I worked in a COVID Working Group for a major military command. I sat in all the meetings and had all the data the CDC and other agencies were pushing out. It was crystal clear very early that this was a disease that affected the elderly. The Spanish Flu had 3% mortality rate for people aged 18-40. CODID was in the inverse in that people between 18-40 had a very low chance of dying, less than one percent, and children it was statistically not even present. We knew this immediately, because the virus hit China, then Italy, and then a US Aircraft Carrier. No one died on the carrier out of 3,000 cases. New York did not look at the data that this was an elderly virus. They were worried their hospitals would overflow so they sent everyone including the elderly back to their homes. This was the worst thing they could have done, and luckily something no other state did saving hundreds of thousands of lives. My great grandmother self-isolated. I There has never been a lockdown of healthy people in world history until COVID. In the past people were very good at guaranteeing sick individuals, which is the appropriate response. The lockdowns were wrong scientifically and pushed on us by evil leaders that did not follow their own rules.

[@mikemcconeghy4658]

If only we had been given the option to try whatever Sweden did, just imagine how many lives might have been saved. Oh, wait, we have actual data on that. Never mind.

[@SineEyed]

Who is "we"?..

[@SoloRenegade]

@@SineEyed not Sweden

[@SineEyed]

@@SoloRenegade thank you Capt Obvious..

[@SoloRenegade]

@@SineEyed ask a dumb question, get a dumb answer...

[@SineEyed]

@@SoloRenegade it wasn't a dumb question, fuckface. Because if it isn't the Swedes, it could be literally anyone else in the world. Every single other "we" was on the table. So you can't give me that shit..

[@Cvfdsx]

A Swede that lived and worked in Denmark under the pandemic here. We, in Denmark, in opposition to Sweden, had a total lockdown. BUT my personal experience is this: As a special needs teacher I was forced to go to work every day (except the very first month as I recall.) During that period I never satt alone in my commuter traincar. Where as my sister, who lives in Stockholm, sat alone in her subwaycar almost every day. Stockholm has a population over 1.000.000. My little town has less then 70.000🤷🏼‍♂️

[@someoneelse.2252]

And your point is.....?

[@jochenehmen6108]

@@someoneelse.2252 I guess the obvious point is: Sweden had no forced lockdowns but the people did what the lockdowns where supposed to achieve anyway by themseves, of their own volition.

[@krollpeter]

@@jochenehmen6108 Exactly. They did what was needed to do without extra laws, unlike the silly Germans.

[@Fufiloofa]

@@someoneelse.2252 central areas of Stockholm city during what is normally rush hour was emptier than on a early sunday morning during the first months of covid. It was spooky, so yeah it was very much a voluntary lockdown in many ways.

[@apackwestbound5946]

I am with you I do not understand the original poster's comment either; I want to but do not. Two sisters living in different countries, both used "subwaycar" (public transportation) during the Covid-19 pandemic. The sister in Stockholm (Sweden-not locked down) sat alone in her subwaycar. The sister in Denmark, was locked down, was not alone in the subwaycar.@@someoneelse.2252

[@jayski9410]

I have to say that I think the pandemic was over blown. I worked as a TSA officer all thru it and you can't social distance in a job like that. You're doing pat-downs right up close and personal. You're also going thru people's belongings. And we had many international passengers from China in full hazmat suits. But we were ordered not to wear masks early on, so as not to alarm the public. Then when the policy in Washington changed, we were ordered to wear masks or we'd be fired. And even though they say it affects the elderly more, I was 68, 69 and 70 during that time. As far as I know I never had Covid or if I did, I didn't know it because I had no symptoms. I'm still working to this day and I've never had a sick day in the last eight years. So for me, it was much ado about nothing.

[@Joao-id4dn]

I wouldnt say covid was "nothing", though i do think it was exagerated for political reasons, and that was really bad, cause the political manipulation made people skeptic about a disease that was definitely real and killed a lot of people, even considering the official numbers might be inflated

[@larrywillard844]

There were fewer USA military deaths in WWII than in the US from Covid. Please don't be so dismissive. With all the unknowns are we really blaming those that hopefully thought the virus might, maybe, somehow be contained or minimized until best treatment practices were determined (or vaccine produced)?

[@skinny1968]

​@@larrywillard844I think you will find the US has one of the most unhealthy populations in the world which might be an issue. Especially when compared to a country like Sweden.

[@skinny1968]

I know one person who died "of"covid personally and they had several co morbidities. Lung issues ,diabetic were the worst. Just my own experience. My wife and I haven't got it but our grown children have had it several times with no issues.

[@allananderson949]

​@@larrywillard844 You never quarantine healthy people

[@DrLynch2009]

Uruguay never locked down. Check it out.

[@johnl5316]

FLORIDA did not lock down.......I never worea mask unless an establishment required it. I did not socially distance. I am now 73. The state forbade vax mandates and forbade compulsary masks in schools, which were open......The vulnerable elderly in nursing homes were provide extra security

[@LibLibertyLibertarian]

If reporting is accurate Uruguay did better than the US per capita.

[@jimpowell6789]

Not only Uruguay. Nearly every country in the world did better. America has 4% of the world's population and 16% of the COVID deaths. What does this say about our public health? What does it say about our "health care"? What does it say about "our" (that is, the pharma corporations') public health agencies? About our corporate corrupted media? About our prostituted political class?

[@johnl5316]

different countries counted differently. There is very bad metabolic health in the US. It had nothing to do with health care.@@jimpowell6789

[@sexysilversurfer]

@@jimpowell6789it says more about the corrupt food industry and health care costs in the US. Make people unhealthy with processed food and then enslave them with high medical insurance, the 1% win both times.

[@z1mt0n1x2]

Sweden had no laws that could support a pandemic shutdown of the country, if anything we had laws that works against such an event.

[@johnvahl762]

How many people in Sweden have had the virus multiple times (different strains)? I know at least 1 person that has had it 3 times and was fully vaccinated. I was fully vacinated and caught it in December of 22. It was like a cold or flu in intensity.

[@hanneskarlbom6644]

My sister did, and I who hadn't taken it due to health reasons didn't get it at all.

[@jimpowell6789]

I know many people who had this experience. It is well established that the "vaccine" does not produce immunity -- which is what vaccines are for. And there is no reliable clinical study to show that the frequent claim, that the vaccine reduces severity of the illness, is true. Not only that, but the medical establishment and the media continue to collaborate to prevent any such independent study. Because the billionaire pharma vampires have already made hundreds of billions of dollars on this poisonous hoax, and they like it that way.

[@Jenseduca]

I didn't take vaccine and I was sick once with temperature 40c my girlfreand on the other hand took all 3e vaccines and was sick with covid prior and then got covid again about a year after. So I guess its all very individual.

[@dand33911]

I never took any shots or wore a mask, and I never got the coof.

[@eugenefirebird8938]

Probably the vaccine reduced the severity by giving your immune system a preview of corona so it could react more quickly, even though the vaccine was for a slightly different strain.

[@christophercharles3169]

Excess deaths are the appropriate barometer for determining the true impacts of covid and related health policies. There is no doubt Sweden got it right. It shouldn't be that difficult for people to understand that protecting the most vulnerable and allowing the rest of society to function normally, thereby expediting herd immunity in the population is the right way to go. A faster natural immunization of the population provides a safer environment for the vulnerable much sooner than hiding in ones basement and waiting for a vaccine would. Unfortunately, there are many cowards out there who would rather inspire fear in everyone and shut society down. Humans being what they are, will learn nothing from the last 3 years.

[@slsikorm]

Or even better measure lost life year normalazied to 90year.

[@aisolutionsindia7138]

not really, the correct benchmark is the number of infections per 100 people per month or something similar, if people are still able to survive the pandemic it cant be fully attributable to policy. this is a classic case of bad stats driving policy

[@christophercharles3169]

@@aisolutionsindia7138 Fear mongering is what this benchmark was used for during the pandemic. Cases mean absolutely nothing if people aren't dying. It should never have been used as the metric for making policy decisions.

[@christophercharles3169]

@@slsikorm That might make some sense.

[@aisolutionsindia7138]

​@@christophercharles3169 i would still disagree, the objective was to reduce the chances of overburdening the healthcare system, in fact thats the only controllable objective, deaths arent controllable via macro policy measures... no policymaker can legitimately claim the credit for low death rates

[@JaharNarishma]

There are some extremely important factors in play. Sweden's politicians didn't have the legal room to make a proper lock down. They used what means they had and made restrictions on places where people tend to meet. Bars had restriction, gyms had restrictions etc. There was a heavily implied public lock down, with daily updates on every reputable TV channel and radio station. I think the practical effect was similar to a proper lock down.

[@freesk8]

Thanks, Reason, this is really important.

[@nelyrions1838]

Note for people. We still had social distancing, more than usual. But its important to look at Sweden from multiple views. We have a culture of people living far apart, people move out relatively early and generally we have a lot of space for each individual. Other cultures people live more closely together, usually with grandfathers and grandmothers that are susceptible to Covid. It's also a matter of personal space, culture of intimacy and interaction. Some cultures hug and kiss very often between family members and close friends. We do not. Our older generations tend to stay in elderly homes. I think factors like this is what played a part in the success. Which is also why the same measures that works for Sweden, not necessarily works for other countries. Which also explains why immigrants in Sweden was one of the groups that got hit the hardest.

[@PJxpanterx]

"Some cultures hug and kiss very often between family members and close friends. We do not." This is nonsense, well the hugging part, all my family members and friends hug every time we meet.

[@asoul3919]

@@PJxpanterx You are an exception. I very rarely hug my parents. We never try to inititate such things. Only my grandparents get hugs, once when we meet and once when we say goodbye. It would be strange to behave any other way.

[@PJxpanterx]

@@asoul3919 Ok, I feel sorry for you :/. That doesn't sound like a fun life to live... Maybe you could try and give your parents/best friends a hug? We are around 30 persons at my work and somtimes we give each other hugs, like when someone comes back from vaccation.

[@TheAccidentalViking]

It has a great deal to how they counted the death in their elderly that contracted covid in the sykehjem also.

[@asoul3919]

@@PJxpanterx That sounds weird

[@BurnLikeAFlame]

Sweden didn't have a lockdown, but it did have recommendations and a load of measures implemented by businesses and the people. It's the huge difference between a sane country and third world nations like the United States of 'Murika... the people actually think of each other, and are willing to voluntarily do the right thing. 'Murikans can't do the right thing even when it's required of them because "me! me! me!" is all that matters to them. - Former third-world 'Murikan, multi-decade Swede now

[@2vnews902]

Government COVID interventions and policies caused more deaths, data shows?

[@mufflejoy]

Sweden had the issue that elderly homes were not properly protected in the beginning. This has been acknowledged and lead to a very high mortality rate in the beginning. This then became a politicized issue in OTHER countries eager to justify their approach - to the detriment of a measured rational approach.

[@PaulStringini]

Even though I never surrendered my liberty during the lock down masking madness, the psychological wounds that this outrage has inflicted on me will never heal until we actually punish the people responsible for this. Lock downs and health procedure mandates are human rights violations that should be punished retrospectively.

[@elbuggo]

If lockdowns and face diapers had worked, they would have banned it. It was deliberate pure fear porn theater.

[@peetsnort]

In What shook me up was how easily British people rolled over at the fear of the breathing disease. I didnt comply with the mask or syringe but I still got caught out. My brother died in cape town and I had to conduct the funeral by zoom. Because of the travel restrictions. Then my father died. But I still couldn't travel. Then my mother died and the restrictions were over but there was nobody there to mourn her. So I am still shook up. And not in the elvis way. The British establishment is a ruthless mafia criminal enterprise. So don't be surprised if you're their next shake victim

[@elbuggo]

@@peetsnort Were you brother, father and mother purebloods too? Or did they get all their boosters and everything?

[@peetsnort]

@@elbuggo my brother was pure. He was training for seniors squash tournament in Poland and had a freak accident by swallowed cold water down the wind pipe causing a heart attack. The parents were pure but 90 a 92 respective.

[@elbuggo]

@@peetsnort Ok, thanks.

[@eds032456]

Thank Goodness for Sweden!! Hurts since my heritage is Norway 😇

[@jennybodin3710]

Why? Norway and Sweden are pretty much the same thing. ❤

[@jeffgerndt2813]

With no lock down, people kept up regular Dr. visits

[@Refat_swordfish]

I work in one of the biggest warehouses for the biggest grocerystore-chain in Sweden. We where told to use social distancing, but officialy we all knew it was impossible with 300 people per shift working closely together to support the people with food. All working in the same isles touching and helping eachother to reach and so on. We pretty much all got the virus in some form. I had it three times, but then, being in my late 30:s and working a physical job I was lucky and was´nt that sick. The funniest thing with the pandemic was the toiletpaper-shortage. We had a large room roughly the size of 3rd of a footballfield where we allways stored the toiletpaper-pallets. This room was NEVER empty. The ONLY reason people THOUGHT there was a shortage was because people panicked and horded paper much faster than the stores could order it.

[@jkleylein]

Sweden's excess death rate could be to attributable to actually reporting correct statistics instead to the inflated numbers other countries were trying to generate to excuse their horrible abuses. In my country medical professionals were encouraged to report anything remotely connected with covid as a covid death, even without testing to back it up. Most covid deaths were deaths _with_ covid rather than deaths caused by covid. Someone who falls off a cliff whose body tests positive for covid is NOT a covid death, but things like that were reported as such.

[@celluskh6009]

Excess deaths =/= covid deaths Excess deaths is deaths above expected average, regardless of cause.

[@anthonyburke5656]

Wow, just look what happens when politicians inform the population and request, not demand, rational informed actions by the population. I’m actually surprised and tend to think a lot of the non Swedish data has been “massaged” by their governments.

[@Jeff-cn9up]

You can rely on them having done it. Because of fearful fearmongering, incompetence, and unethical impulses.

[@stimpen12]

I'm a Swede living in Sweden. We did not have a lock down but it's not like it was business as usual during the pandemic. I worked from home for about two years. We got almost all our groceries and other stuff delivered to our home. We had all family gatherings outside sometimes in the winter with snow. The few times we actually went to a store we went at hours with few customers and so on. Some periods there where restrictions regarding how many that could visit a store at the same time. But yeah if you wanted to you could live on almost as usual and don't adapt to the pandemic. Also there where probably many who could not work from home and had to go to work and socialize against their will.

[@nenadlacmanovic3046]

Sweden was experiment

[@Simon_Laserna]

Same for me. My entire company decided we were going full remote for about 2 years. We got food delivered, and if we needed to go out we only did so every 2 weeks so we could take test etc, and wore masks etc. It felt crazy when the family met up and we were standing out in snow... Obviously there were people who could not work remote, and many who actually kept on living as usual. Though bars / clubs were mostly closed, and restaurants had to cross every other seat to force social distancing. Personally, I think it makes a lot of sense. Everyone who are slightly introvert could "take the bullet" by staying home which made it possible for people who were more extrovert to not get depressed.

[@buckw65]

I think they are trying to promote the other side of what actually happened. Sweden had a high and fast vaccination rate as we did in Canada. I believe listening to the authorities was the best logic.

[@markkeneson6806]

I think it is safe to say that there were definitely people who did not work from home during the pandemic in Sweden. How else would your groceries and other things have been delivered to your home?

[@Simon_Laserna]

@@markkeneson6806 I do not think anyone is arguing the opposite. It certainly was not as black and white. The point is just that it was clearly not business as usual. Many people who had an opportunity to make society safer did so with the intention of making the environment safer for those who could not.

[@Servant_of_Christ]

Remember that here in Sweden we where counting "with covid" not "by covid". If you got hit by the bus and had covid or the common cold you where a covid death.

[@wstavis3135]

Ferguson's model always irritated me. Even though he never released the underlying code, it was obvious that he had static modeling. People act in a much more reasonable manner: if there is an actual problem, people will act differently, they will change their behavior. The fact that most people did not really change behavior, overall, show there was never a personally perceived danger by most people.

[@jasondashney]

I'm Canadian, and when the government will announce that masks could come off, 75% of people had them off on day one. I don't believe for a second that it's because they trusted the government.

[@bernadettesandoval3990]

As Ivor Cummins and his guests repeated regularly, the Diamond Princess quarantine provided the numbers necessary eliminating the usefulness of models. The bureaucrats clung to the models like Gospel

[@yasi4877]

@@bernadettesandoval3990 Yes, the Diamond Princess saga in Yokohama and Ruby Princess in Sydney disproved the notion of global susceptibility. Of 3600 people on board, exposed to viral laden air and in daily close proximity to other passengers for weeks, 600 tested +ve and about 12 died. 3000 walked off those vessels unaffected.

[@eugenicferlie]

The first chart is dated July 1, 2020, while the second is dated July 2, 2021. Just fyi.

[@aquaticaaficionado2004]

And?. . . it makes the case that much stronger of how wrong those projections were. The second chart was CUMULATIVE meaning all the deaths were on it and it NEVER reached their projections.

[@Wbops1995]

What do you mean by “AND” - he misread the graph, and it’s a good thing to point out since. Not an argument for or against the data.

[@iaindennis3321]

Neil. F needs to face a court of law and account for his incompetence

[@Imevul]

The one major thing that I as a Swede think Sweden did incorrectly, is the lack of worker support. Johan here talks about people voluntarily taking measures to reduce the spread, such as working from home, but there was little government support for empowering people to take such voluntary actions. If your employer had the policy of following local government guidelines, they could easily not allow you to work from home and you were out of luck. Contrasting that with Norway which mandated companies to have people in non-critical roles stay away from the office, those companies were quick to implement the infrastructure necessary to support remote work for those people. I saw this with my own employer, where in Sweden remote work was not allowed since it was neither recommended nor demanded from the government, but in the rest of Scandinavia, staying away from the office was enforced, and infrastructure upgrades to allow the entire workforce to work remotely was finished in like a week. (VPN, routines for IT support, HR, etc.) I expected Sweden to at least get to a middleground, where the guidelines would be that companies had to allow people in non-critical roles to work remotely if they requested it, thus giving people the option to take voluntary measures as they see fit. With the policy Sweden did implement, the only people with the option to work from home were people with a benevolent employer and people in high positions. You can bet that in many cases the C-level people stayed away from the office for a while to reduce the risk to themselves and their families, and the rest of the workforce got told "no".

[@indiradinah7715]

The first couple of months before we knew how deadly this new disease were was really scary. I work in a school with 900 people - no social distansing possible. Both kids and teachers got sick, almost all of us. I was really scared. After a few years, knowing what we know now, I am very happy that the kids did not have to stay home for years.

[@kevincaruthers5412]

There were 900 of you. All got sick. How many died? (Seriously, I would like to know)

[@enginerdy]

@@kevincaruthers5412in a school the age is skewed low, the casualties from that event would be disproportionately hidden in the form of deaths and serious illness of parents and grandparents of the children

[@kevincaruthers5412]

@@enginerdy But that doesn't answer the question. You merely point out some potential confounding issues.

[@anderssalming6162]

I worked at a school in Sweden with 300 children and staff through the whole pandemic. Not one person got seriously sick. Most of the staff got flu like symptoms. Some of the younger staff didn’t even notice that they had it, they only knew because they got tested for antibodies. The kids weren’t more sick than any other year with the flu etc.

[@enginerdy]

@@kevincaruthers5412 no that is the point. That’s the entire point. The school is a vector of infection for populations who are much more vulnerable than the children. If you choose to ignore that, you’re ignoring a significant and assured impact of keeping schools open. You can say you don’t care about those impacts, and that’s for you to say, but you cannot ignore them and be making an honest assessment.

[@kirgise88]

My admiration to the Netherlands! When we went on holidays there from Germany in the middle of Covid it was a breathtaking contrast to home. Many other Germans told me the exact same story. Yes, the Dutch did have certain measures but it did NOT seem like some freaked out dystopia as it did in Germany. People there seemed so balanced and reasonable. It was literally escaping an authoritarian system. Sounds polemic, but it's really not. Seeing now how tremendously much lower the Dutch death rate was compared to ours is just mind blowing.

[@Navajoias-ur6sn]

Excess deaths 9000 🤔

[@terra7066]

Sweden has 10 420 000 inhabitants , Portugal has 10 330 000 inhabitants. Death rate in Sweden 2 322 , death rate in Portugal 2 612.

[@stanweaver6116]

The Swede made the relevant point about midway through the talk, that Sweden decided that it was to late for mitigation measures to stop the virus.

[@peterbockholm3176]

Here's a different angle from the discussion. In Sweden we have far less Kevins, Karens and antivaxxers per capita or which ever term of comparison you want to apply. There's also a different mentality of following the wishes of shops of any kind. We are very disciplined when it comes to standing in line, the recommended distance between person was 1,5 meters. Shops had decals on the floor with that distance to stand on and everyone excepted it and if someone didn't he got reprimanded from the others. Instead of locking down we choose a smarter way. And it worked since we don't have those mentioned above. We chose trust, people don't want to become sick and by following simple rules based on common sense we obviously succeeded with that. Also most people got vaccinated when the vaccins came.

[@arthurmccann1084]

The pandemic response never had anything to do with healthcare. “Tackling” climate change has nothing to do with climate.

[@yasi4877]

Spot on!

[@dillcarver7731]

The recorded cause of death varies wildly. My father died during the pandemic, he was overdosed with morphine (which he was allergic to) after a knee replacement operation. This led to damage of internal organs which led to a stroke from which he died. He was recorded as a Covid-19 related death. We have no idea why and the hospital have not explained that conclusion. Years ago I saw something about heart-disease fatality figures in different countries. Turned out that in one European country any death over the age of 67 was reported as natural causes whereas another European country would record the perceived cause of death (pneumonia, heart failure etc. etc.) at any age up to 100 years old plus. I don't think international reporting of deaths relating to this, or that is accurate. Governments and organizations love to manipulate the figures.

[@BCSTS]

Imagine CDC following science instead of politicians !

[@Hirnlego999]

It's the other way around, politicians like Trump downplaying the threat, although the bastard almost died to it himself

[@jup52]

I agree with the Sweden Model. We had horrifying mask laws, lock downs, police raids, arrests and forced vaccinations but I think our death rates were worse. There are still some fair questions about Sweden , how healthy was the population ( particularly obesity). Did they use antivirals and anti- inflammatories? These were banned in my country although now the government is very quietly treating covid with ...anti virals and anti inflammatories ( they won't say which ones).

[@PennyAfNorberg]

Take your vaccine if you want to follow the swedish model.

[@billbadson7598]

1:42 _"...from covid19"_ WITH covid19

[@monikaboros1526]

My opinion as I lived in Sweden in that time: people was concerned, but not panicked, even in the stores everyone kept distance, preventive health care is better, than in other countries, Swedes are not the hugging type people generally, like Italians. The traficcompanies did not want to spare some money, so the public transport provided the possibility to travel without crowded busses. Everyone had proper masks, and almost everyone followed the rules. The health ministry is generally trustworthy so not much people doubted that there is issue or pandemic at all, comparing other countries where people tend to think they now itt better and believing in conteos instead of facts. As there were no lockdown, people felt better generally, so other viruses, like flu, magsjuka could spread normally, so immunanswer was better, plus people likely went out to the nature and that also was good for health. Thank you Sweden to be my host at that time! 😊

[@anotherelvis]

In Denmark the official goal was not to lower the death toll. The goal was to make sure that hospitals always had capacity to treat all incoming patients. So at least we had a transparent strategy, but in retrospect we should have had shorter lockdowns.

[@larsjrgensen5975]

I do not think Denmark could have done it noteworthy better then they did. We where living almost normal lives when many other countries was still running full distance, mask and testing. It was weird to hear people talking about having a spot in the house to wash all the groceries and change clothes, to not spread to the other people in the house up to a year after Denmark stopped forcing mask and begun closing down test facilities, because they where not needed anymore.

[@PerMejdal]

The Danish government handed the situation the absolutely best way they could. Given the information available. Sweden took a huge gamble, and had the virus just been slightly more infectious or deadly. It would have been a catastrophe. Denmark did a fast lockdown (2 weeks before UK). Then assessed the situation, and then did a gradual reopening. Spending its infection-budget on what was most important first.

[@johannas.l.brushane2518]

I also recall one a bit older doctor who often was in the news in Sweden (don't recall his name) who commented of the negative psychological effects of lockdowns. Maybe he has a greater impact than many believe? I follow a group of runners where a lot are from UK and it was so weird because some seemed to appear as more aggressive and just stressed when mundane things just got to become more difficult there were shopping slots for various essental workers. People started to sound like stasi informers watching eachothers if someone had a too long of a run than the "allowed" time to be out, or god forbid they split the allowed time into two different times. In Sweden they also noticed a significant less amount of cardiac emergencies in the larger cities when a lot of people worked from home (less stress when not being stuck in a car at rush hours?).

[@piajander8921]

Well, I had to take 50% sick leave with depression due to work from home. We (in Sweden) were told to stay home, not shop if we could help it, keep our social circle to a minimum. Don’t hug or shake hands. There was a big difference between people who cared about others, family, colleagues, strangers, we were alone and lonely. And those who didn’t care, like my asshole colleagues who were out partying every week, went shopping when they were sick etc. Rules were mandatory but not enforced and it took it’s toll mentally.

[@user-mv6he6gl8m]

Probably Dr Johan Gisecke, mentor of Dr Anders Tegnell who was in charge this time around.

[@johannas.l.brushane2518]

​@@user-mv6he6gl8mYes, that was him.

[@DugrozReports]

Too bad we can't have calm, reasoned discussion like this in the main stream media here in the US. Or really any form of media in the US (including the far-right).

[@kenfriedland4603]

The obesity rate in Sweden is 20%. In the US it's 40%+.

[@Redmanticore]

13% of adults in the world are obese. 39% of adults in the world are overweight. One-in-five children and adolescents, globally, are overweight.The global mean BMI for women in 2016 was 25 - just on the threshold from the WHO’s ‘healthy’ to ‘overweight’ classification. This has increased from a mean BMI of 22 - in the mid-range of ‘healthy’ - in the 1970s.

[@ChopperChad]

Maybe this: Nature Journal published a study on 11 Apr 2023 that said 78% of U.S. death and hospitalizations were people with BMI over 25%. And as BMI increased, so did death rates. It was particularly severe for those over 30% BMI and over 65 yrs old.

[@yrdjuret]

Tegnell informed everybody in a very clear way. That helped enormously. We were carefull in ways other countries weren't always because we got the information that was available in a very clear way. So we could make informed decisions on how to protect ourselves. And the advice we got on how to act as a community to protect each other was as good as it could be. I believe much was because of Tegnell's calm and capacity to not muddle up anything when communicating. He always stuck to facts as he understood them. Sweden is a country where people hug each other very often, but we stopped doing that for a while.

[@BurninSven1]

That mother Tegnell all he did was looking at the freaking statistics and talked crap. I am ashamed that he actually is a sweed and whats worse is it looks he lives in Ostergotland pretty close to here

[@huldu]

The only thing that worked well was people keeping a distance and it only worked for half a year to a year depending on where you live. It's not like a virus like covid is going to magically disappear. So basically we're still back at square one and covid is rampant but does it matter? No not really. For most people covid is a small nuisance at most. It bothers us less than a flu. With that said I do really hope that they can come up with an actual WORKING vaccine so elderly people who are in the risk zone can go on living their lives without being terrified of going outside. At the end of the day we're all going to get older and that's just the sad truth. We might be fine today but what about tomorrow? No, I don't think the vaccine for covid right now is good at all. I stopped taking the boosters after the second one I think. I've had covid many times and I picked up the first one back in march of 2020.

[@liiiinder]

Also worth mentioning is that the Swedish stats is not "death by covid19" its more like "death with covid19" so the real number of deaths is actually even lower. Or moved over to the "excess rate" which would explain why that number is lower.

[@gandalf8216]

That statistic, no matter the country, is completely useless due to issues with definitions. It's not even proper data gathering, because the same data could be collected using a variety of definitions for what that data is. Meaning, we don't know how many died - could be none - who the f knows?

[@chalphon4907]

Swedish politicians listen to and followed the advice of their experts and scientists instead of panicing and putting forward policies that the experts was in agreement on wasn't necessary.

[@paulbolton2322]

All praise the light bringers of common sense. Not so common. 🇸🇪👏👏👏 🌟

[@Genlearnman]

Key diff between Finland and Sweden are two: 1. Health. Sweden's population probably eat healthier food => better resistence to viruses. 2. Finland is more centralized (collectivistic) compared to Sweden. Italy's death by Covid death rate was at first glance explained by age, but later by malnutrition.

[@TuDawid]

1. To Finland? BS.

[@johanponken]

@@TuDawid Exactly "probably eat healthier", BS.

[@Zayphar]

@@johanponken I call BS.

[@aquaticaaficionado2004]

Food doesn't convey resistence to viruses. . please report back to middle school.

[@darkgalaxy5548]

Last time I was in Italy, I didn't notice any malnutrition anywhere. They must have hidden them.

[@johnwaldmann5222]

Sweden has a very different culture than the uk. They typically live alone, and spend much less time in close contact in crowded pubs. The model assumed common culture and behaviour. They also have a fully functional health system and far fewer homeless than the uk.

[@Mosern1977]

My gut feeling is that pubs, bars, concerts are potential hotspots for spreading these kinds of viruses, compared to a lot of other places. So the lack of UK pub culture in Sweden absolutely will affect the spread.

[@frodej6640]

Yes the virus is very dangerous in a pub, but not in crowded grocery store, or other places 🙄Also note that absolutely no infection was traced back to grocery store, and none of them got closed because of infection. You are allowed to think...

[@windywaz]

Umm, does anyone notice that the northern European nations were less affected than southern European nations? Makes drawing conclusions more difficult in my opinion.

[@hugoingelhammar6163]

One big factor not taken into account here is the mental health issues that comes with locking a whole nation down for 2 years. Studies have shown that loneliness is more harmful to health than smoking. So no wonder more people died from the Covid infections than in Sweden. Here we at least had some kind of social life, even though it was comprimized

[@Azraiel213]

I'm just shocked that individuals are better at making decisions than distant, unelected bureaucrats with a spreadsheet and the very best science taxpayer money can buy. 😂

[@Hirnlego999]

They aren't, if the government didn't push for vaccines few would take 'em

[@Lenakickan]

In Sweden there was a joke regarding social distancing: "I wish we didn't have to keep a 2m distance any longer and could go back to 4 m."

[@PennyAfNorberg]

5m

[@privatechannel8462]

Really enjoyed lockdown, it was so relaxing. We had the best time.

[@murrayarmstrong499]

I just tried to find out whether Sweden followed the WEF instruction to governments to keep care-home residents out of hospitals. It seems that they did and as a result, about half of Swedish covid deaths were care-home residents, according to the BBC. I came to the conclusion long ago that this policy was used by governments to achieve frighteningly high numbers of deaths in the early days of the plandemic. This made it easy for them to introduce all of the other nonsense that followed.

[@magnuscarlsson9969]

Well even before the pandemic, nursing homes was called 'deaths waiting room' since elders who end up in these facilities died within a year. Anyone who knows anything about the nursing home situation in Sweden could see this problem coming from miles away. Only the really frail and sick elders gets assigned a position in a nursing home, the rest are encouraged to live in a normal home for as long as possible. This have caused a massive issue with over-reliance on palliative care, instead of calling an ambulance they give the person morphine and let them die in bed. Combine morphine and a virus which primarily attacks the respiratory system and you basically sentence these people to death no matter what.

[@jamesharmon3827]

It's always the weak that are the most vulnerable, well except for the Spanish flu. It's not a surprise. It only took a couple of months of data to figure out.

[@sdrc92126]

"to achieve frighteningly high numbers of deaths" winner

[@martenthornberg275]

@@magnuscarlsson9969 They also quickly decided to change the hospital triage rules so that people would be prioritised based on age, i.e. younger should be prioritised higher if there was a lack of hospital places (and Sweden already had the lowest hospital capacity in the OECD before the pandemic). The elderly who died in nursing homes were given a large dose of morphine without even meeting a doctor, so they were never tested for covid and therefore did not end up in the official covid statistics.

[@magnuscarlsson9969]

@@martenthornberg275 Yeah it's a bit of a mess... and what really infuriates me was the blatant negligence of the authorities in this specific area, not only during the pandemic but also the decades leading up to it. It's mostly a result of this constant efficiency and savings mantra which have persisted for a long time now. No emergency preparations, poorly educated staff, staff shortages, heavy reliance on temporary workers etc. But i suppose there's no choice considering the immense budget deficits due to various reasons... Many tend to blame the poorly handled migration policies which haven't really worked out and that ain't the migrants fault.

[@mufflejoy]

20-20 hindsight is always interesting. You also have to factor in that Swedish population has a fair amount of discipline and that "social distance" is not a ISO standard in all countries.

[@Yinyara]

And that most Swedes trust their government and followed the advice to vaccinate.

[@SPDLand]

Swedens hero was Anders Tegnell. He took all the shit and up to this day takes all the shit while staying strong in his right judgements which saved the country and will most likely never get the credits but deserves a statue.

[@Ragnemalm]

We had a LOT of restrictions. Social distancing, yes. No large gatherings, all big events were cancelled. Most teaching on distance, all that was at all possible, which means all lectures, all lessons and most laborations. And yes, we were recommended to wear masks, especially when shopping. We were not forced to stay at home at all times. On the contrary, people went outdoors more than ever, but that was in the forests, where we could go with all the social distancing required. So I think "not locking down" is a bit of an exaggeration. Right?

[@Hirnlego999]

Yes, it's utterly false. Many types of events were closed for a very long time, like theater shows. Couldn't visit elderly at eldercare easily at all etc..

[@Mosern1977]

As a Norwegian (with a Swedish wife), I remember the somewhat different approaches taken by Norway and Sweden at the time. (The countries are pretty similar in other respects). What really happened was that the Swedes killed all their old and weak a year or two before the Norwegians did. In 2020 the excess death toll by Sweden was way higher than in Norway. In 2022 it was way higher in Norway than Sweden (but at that point, people were fed up with Covid - and nobody cared). To paraphrase a famous quote: Never before has so many, sacrificed so much, for so few.

[@jonathanshjrne3690]

@Mosern1977 Sweden had extremely low death rates in 19, the 1500 "excess" deaths the following year doesn't account for that.

[@johns9969]

Same in Canada. We locked down hard, got vaccinated, went out, and the elderly death rate spiked. Then we locked down again. We had stats of vax v unvaxed (wieghted) at 4months, the vax overtook. Then the stats were pulled down. I took screen caps...

[@martinliehs2513]

​@@johns9969I noticed that as well. Only the scary data was presented. Any data that countered the prevailing narrative was quietly removed.

[@stevemahoney1733]

@@martinliehs2513 Besides having the counter data pulled down / removed, those who challenged the Gov't "status quo" were quickly demonized in a variety of ways.

[@openallnight2113]

Did Norway also commit "midazolam murders" the same way Sweden did at the onset of the plandemic? Actively prune the elderly from the population?