Check out our new series "10 Things" where we cover the top 10 things you should know about fish keeping topics!! kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3acpaVjqs-Xqbs
@cassykellogg32164 жыл бұрын
Can you keep a plecos in a tank with sand?
@brigidnativio37724 жыл бұрын
@@sjarvis4839 there's only one thing from Nat Geo at my PetSmart It's a filter.
@isaactooliveTV4 жыл бұрын
I want to have sand in my 30 gallon there are fish in there now, when I remove the water after I’m done adding the sand can I re use the same water to feel it up? Like 50 percent or do I just use new water completely?
@amandajones99173 жыл бұрын
I am wanting a soft smooth sand for my cory catfish. Can someone tell me which kind is softest and smoothest?
@naranza657 жыл бұрын
Yes please make a video about all things about sand in an aquarium. Good stuff my friend.
@ivysolarflare16194 жыл бұрын
naranza65 please dooooo🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
@soggyfries43474 жыл бұрын
Thats how the aquarium world operates add "aquarium" to the title and jack up the price by 75%
@rahuldoes4 жыл бұрын
SoggyFries 3-400%, at times.
@scuds033 жыл бұрын
It's the same thing with forensics equipment
@rebeccaseeley90538 жыл бұрын
You did a great job and hit all the really important highlights like - you can NEVER wash your sand too much!!!! It really makes a huge difference in the tank. And i agree with your choice of PFS versus play sand, play sand is lighter than PFS, thus the PFS will settle more quickly and easily, thus less chances of ruining your filter impellers, always a plus! I think a follow-up video on properly maintaining the sand bed is crucial as it's a little different than gravel but just as important to be kept up properly and those new to sand need to know what to do. Thanks for a great video!!
@lizzi4078 жыл бұрын
Would love to see a sand maintenance video!
@KGTropicals8 жыл бұрын
Your wish is my command, I just put it up on the channel today;-)
@craigwoodhull30287 жыл бұрын
Sand is like another filter. Cheap sand you can get anaerobic Pockets, not live sand. I still stir up a portion every W/C. Cory cats love sand, it does not hurt their wiskers
@MAFishGuyAquarium8 жыл бұрын
I love rinsing my sand in pillow cases. alot less mess and just throw out cases when done. good video kg
@KGTropicals8 жыл бұрын
That's a great idea, I haven't heard of that trick before.
@MAFishGuyAquarium8 жыл бұрын
***** you tank looks awesome
@KGTropicals8 жыл бұрын
Thanks brother!
@tjenkins11268 жыл бұрын
That's a great idea, never thought of that. I just rinse in the bag.
@paulchippington74988 жыл бұрын
Good idea, also once in aquarium I use large sheet bubble wrap on sand then fill slowly the plastic wrap rises with the water good clarity and the substrate doesn't move.
@Tackleberry6578 жыл бұрын
I have been using pool filter sand for the past two years. Great setup, John.
@Eric.schmidt8 жыл бұрын
Love the look of that sand. Let's see a video on the sand maintanance.
@stevenking20882 жыл бұрын
Yes! Sand maintenance videos please!!!
@inventoryking8 жыл бұрын
I agree with the sand John. I over wash my sand so it doesn't screw anything up. Love speeding up the vids as well! 👍
@gains72077 жыл бұрын
Whats up with the intro, i thought i was loading up a porno dvd.
@joshdominguez3414 жыл бұрын
Yo thanks making me laugh 2 years later 🙏🏻
@antman08995 жыл бұрын
I would like to see a sand water change vid!!! I’m thinking bout changing to sand substrate just doing research before the switch
@terrillpitts42227 жыл бұрын
When painting the background I have been using black latex. If u need or want to remove it peels right off! Great video!! Setting up a new tank for my cichlids and really leaning toward sand!
@MrDoozie21 Жыл бұрын
I’m doing my substrate change from gravel to sand today actually and glad I seen this video :) thank you for the great tips. Love the videos you been uploading. Keep on the great work and love how you have the set ups running ❤
@albertoramos19278 жыл бұрын
Please do the sand rinsing video. Also thank you for the great information your putting out there for us hobbies. Keep up the good work.
@grlygirl12648 жыл бұрын
So glad I stumbled across this (and your sand maintenance video). I have one 55 gallon that's empty...I want the background black...so I will be painting it. I wanted sand, but found aquarium sand expensive (and people complained it was too fine). I will get pool filter sand... I also have another 55 gallon that is up and running and I think once I sand the empty one I am going to want to take what's in there out and sand it as well. Now I see it can be done and done affordably. Great video thanks for posting it!!
@benbrown44337 жыл бұрын
excellent! I recently swapped from sand to eco complete without moving any fish. Good luck with your plants and the sand. It seemed to choke my roots out I could only grow annubias and java hence going eco complete.
@williamavongaurd7794 Жыл бұрын
I too was battling the substrate because I wanted live plants. So yes, I’d love to see your cleaning process of a planted sand substrate. Also. I too sent with pool filter sand for its cleanliness.
@ne.laser_jon8 жыл бұрын
A video about sand and rank maintenance with it would be awesome!!! I've been watching most of your videos as I'm getting ready to set up my first cichlid tank and all your videos have been incredibly informative and helpful! So thank you sir!!!
@AquaPeet5 жыл бұрын
Wow! That pool filter sand ree-hee-heally looks nice and natural and beachy in the tanks!! What a great idea and yet so cheap!! It is a great contrast against the brown wood and the grassy plants in the little sand dunes you created, really fit in well... Top tip!! Pool filter sand!!
@garybernstein35394 жыл бұрын
You're the best. I'm a semi newbee to aquariums. You're professional and simple explanations of how to do it all right is amazing. Thanks. Keep up the good work.
@Icealote8 жыл бұрын
Yes please. More sand maintenance videos, especially using a siphon. Always struggled cleaning sand and I took my Black Tahitian moon sand out because I could not get clean without taking so much sand through the siphon. Can you also show how you would clean used sand substrate again without chucking it away and buying new sand as that would be too expensive?
@giakurstenschweizer734 жыл бұрын
I honestly have learned so much from you! I would definitely purchase an e-book of a step-by-step how-to guide for beginners. Unfortunately, there’s so much misinformation out there! My mother went to a small chain local fish store and sold her (an impulse buy for my kiddo) two albino corey cats in a tiny FISH BOWL! One of them has ALL of his/her fins nipped off! I calmly and respectfully educated the owner on the correct requirements. I bought a proper 30 gallon tank (from a more reputable place) for them. So far they are doing fine. I will get more, but I’m trying to avoid stressing them too much since they have been through so much. Finless apparently has a strong will to live. He/she is eating well and Dr Who (my husband named that one) is keeps Finless company.
@roland_the_cursor2 жыл бұрын
How are they today?
@melissaaultman17556 жыл бұрын
Thank you for such a educational video on the sand and how to vaccum it. Now make us a video on what live plants will do well in this sand.
@richardmiller44188 жыл бұрын
Let's see that video of how to maintain a sand substrate. Great series John...thank you!
@iceman82aj2 жыл бұрын
I know this is old video but alot of your videos have helped me out
@Grady2522 жыл бұрын
I found this video and see it is now over 5 years old. How is the sand doing now? Are you still happy with it? I need to do some searches on your channel to see if you have any updates. I am tired of my gravel and love the idea of the sand. I want to move from my Angel tank to a Discus tank on my 125. Also, what color is that blue tank background in the right? I love that look!
@KGcichlids8 жыл бұрын
Looks like you went to town on that tank, great job on hitting the reset button.that should do the trick :) and great shorts! Lol! Thanks for the shout out, I laughed at that😂😂😂
@reddragonstacking52478 жыл бұрын
I would love to see a clip on seeing how to maintaining sand substrate in tanks
@vanschermerhorn71673 жыл бұрын
Watched your presentation of gravel to sand . Great . I have 150 gallon tank that I used Carib sea Super Naturals sand . However with white sand and white holey honeycomb rock I thought I need too break the monotony of white . So when everybody said no I put some small pebbles on top . Looks good .but probably wrong . Hum. Your setup looks neat and clean .
@jlathem568 жыл бұрын
sand video = YES! also could you include black sand in it as well? thanks John.
@bigsky4454 жыл бұрын
Pool filter sand is amazing in the aquarium! Its heavy enough that it doesn't cloud the water & ymir vacuum it like I would gravel & its heavy enough to drop & not get sucked out. Upgrading all my aquariums to pool filter sand!
@kelseymullenix65093 жыл бұрын
This is…just what I needed! I’m doing exactly this today! Thank you!
@duaneheller81658 жыл бұрын
I would LOVE to see a "maintaining sand aquariums" video!My issue with sand is removing all the droppings which seems to be needed 2-3 times a day. There has to be a better way. If you want to know how I am doing it I would be glad to post a description. Just let me know.
@sheliaglover565 Жыл бұрын
I haven't tried this yet but I had my husband buy me a small orange juice strainer it has very small holes in the screen I thought would be perfect for sifting the sand and removing debris my section siphon doesn't have the power for me to stand it upright and work I have to keep it late down to drain the water
@ericj15008 жыл бұрын
thanks for sharing friend and yes I would like to see a video on sand maintenance pal.
@tattoodude86075 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video , being a new aquarium owner I need all the help I can get
@kritykat698 жыл бұрын
I would love to see a video on maintain sand. I had a huge loss in my 60 gallon over a period of 3 months an many failed attempts to treat the fish. I have 2 cichlid left and a common pleco. I've decided to break down the tank and start from scratch. While in that thought process, I'm thinking of getting a 75 gallon and building a double stand and using the 60 to grow my 20 gallon saltwater. That being said, I hate cleaning the sand. gravel vac while doing water changes has been so easy. my 20 and 10 gallon have sand. I hate the look of gravel and prefer the look of sand, but it's kind of like carpet vs wood floors. What am I not seeing in my gravel? I can see the dirt on top of my sand! so I'm hoping the switch and I'm painting my tanks black :) will be a huge improvement. I'm still not 100% positive I'm ready for a bigger saltwater, but I know I'm ready for a bigger freshwater and have alternate plans for the 60 gallon if the saltwater does not work out :) so long story short. Yeah, how do I keep sand pristine clean and recommendations of clean crew for both fresh and saltwater.
@borisbuliak36264 жыл бұрын
My only tank with just sand is clean as a whistle. Do not disturb the sand while doing water changes, I stir it lightly about twice a year. The plants and panda Corys together with sponge filter keep it extremely clean. You may want introduce a pathos plant 🌱 in a ciclid aquarium. Hold it up with egg crate or thru a small hole in the back plastic. It’s a way to introduce a plant in a plant hostile tank imo
@lyndabalkoski18852 жыл бұрын
Yes please show more on maintaining sand thx!!
@eugenedanker23773 жыл бұрын
I set up a new 36 gallon three weeks ago, and last Saturday "remodeled' my 60 gallon tank. I used Caribsea Floramax in areas where I will add plants, and Topfin gravel, although the "gravel" is actually sand. I didn't want extremely fine sand because it packs too hard. The Topfin is still safe for corys and will allow some air circulation.
@johnatella84985 жыл бұрын
I am going from a 75 bare bottom to a 125 gallon sand tank. I have three hang on the back filters producing a flow of about 800 gallons an hour. If I just move my water, filter, plants, driftwood, and fish to the 125, do I need to worry about cycling it if I now have sand in it? My plants are Anubias, Java Fern and some floating plants. I also have twelve 3-4" Discus, some tetras, and 2-3 Bristlenose plecos. I am thinking that if I do nothing to the filters, I am fine. I am also thinking of just adding a very thin layer of pool sand (1/2 to 3/4ths of an inch). WIll be adding some Amazon Swords and will probably have to get rid of my bristlenose as they seem to eat more plants than algae. Thoughts?
@EmilyPepperman5 жыл бұрын
Yes... please videos on maintaining sand substrates. I love the look of sand and want to give my Corydoras sand as well. :-)
@Ninja80218 жыл бұрын
I have learned so much from you John as a new person to the aquarium hobby. You are extremely informative! I have a question or request for a video; Bigger filtration vs Tank Size. I have a 30G tank, and random websites are stating that manufacturers overrate the filtration power. Your opinion will greatly be appreciated! Thank you!
@gina77598 жыл бұрын
I would love to learn about sand and maintenance of sand aquariums!
@williamfeltner83568 жыл бұрын
John u need to put some Al Borlin shorts on the website, they'd sell like hotcakes lmao
@joeymolnar84508 жыл бұрын
really want to see that sand video!
@juniorkhan6507 жыл бұрын
Joey Molnar i would assume, alot of the bacteria lives in the substrate
@thelitepredator5 жыл бұрын
hey thats a great video idea i would totally watch maintenance on sand substrates
@TrishsOrchidLife5 жыл бұрын
Getting ready to set up a new tank so cleaning sand would be great- thinking of using
@d.j.crigger91265 жыл бұрын
What is your thoughts on using black diamond blasting sand? I'm seriously thinking about changing from creek pebbles to the black diamond blasting sand. A 50lb bag is under $10 from tractor supply store.
@vapelounge61107 жыл бұрын
awesome video. AS ALWAYS!! stumbled across this bc tomorrow I was planning on going to home depot because it's 5 mins from my house right by my local pet shop to get some quickrete pool filter sand then goin to grab some dwarf african cichlids for a new 55g that's been cycled for a Lil over a week now. but has new gravel in it and out of 20 years I been into fish keeping I've always wanted a sand substrate but been afraid of it for some reason but was wondering how to go about converting it so this helped. and it looks beautiful man. love ur videos Bro, I watch all ur vape related videos as well. keep up the awesome work, an I love ur passion an knowledge for your wet pets!
@joseCalderon1976 Жыл бұрын
I used pool filter sand in my 75g African chiclid tank. I might try the black diamond sand from tractor supply for the black substrate look that I want
@thomasashe26815 жыл бұрын
I love the tanks. Looks so great with the sand.
@stevec4411 Жыл бұрын
I'm about to swap out my Home Depot pea gravel substrate to a sand because I want a Ray in my 210. This video helps so thanks! Also, unless I'm wrong, you purchased 240 lbs. of pool sand not 160. Not that it matters but that caught my attention
@RickySutphin7 жыл бұрын
I know this was over a year ago, but it turned it great. Thanks for sharing.
@danielmcsween8847 жыл бұрын
*240 pounds
@stonigee79976 жыл бұрын
Daniel Mc Sween Right? I was like huh???
@her2095 жыл бұрын
6 bags x 40 lbs bags = 160 lbs Huh?
@SunSparkle88 жыл бұрын
I would love to see a video about maintaining a sand aquarium. I'm thinking about changing my aquarium to sand from gravel. Thanks for this video it was very helpful.
@Xavier_9158 жыл бұрын
It's looking good John! I might do sand next time I set up a tank...👍👍
@paultrow71084 жыл бұрын
Regarding fish piling up the substrate: to quote from one of Richard Pryor's routines, "The monkey live here, *****, you visitin'."
@erickvillalva89595 жыл бұрын
Awesome Video!!!! inspired me to retouch my existing tank with some background paint
@joserogriguez38942 жыл бұрын
Your tanks look amazing. Lots of work but lots of fun as well. Love your videos and your advises
@johnmorris22318 жыл бұрын
John, I am planning on Caribsea live freshwater sand when I set my tank up. Definitely would be interested in cleaning and maintenance video. Thanks for your videos!
@duenasj8 жыл бұрын
So what's the final verdict? Which substrate do you recommend, gravel or sand?
@Facts_Are_Facts_Are_Facts5 жыл бұрын
It says in the title, changing from gravel to sand.
@borisbuliak36264 жыл бұрын
Am personally leaning more and more towards sand, at first I was hesitant. I am also experimenting with both gravel and sand in my tanks, way more natural looking. 60-40 or 70-30 ratios in favor of sand. Rocks and plants, in over ten years I have yet to stick any wood in my aquariums. That will change when I set my 10 gallon rack.
@daveclifford78952 жыл бұрын
Great video . Could you put gravel in first with a layer of sand on top ? Would this help keeping the tank cleaner ? Or would the waste still get through to the gravel ?
@DeVor-Art Жыл бұрын
I'm going to be using the CaribSea cichlid sand. Some people have said not to rinse it because it removes beneficial bacteria and to use the biomagnet packet to help clear the tank. Is this correct or should I still rinse it?
@stclairstclair5 жыл бұрын
As a kind of fish dumb-ass i would like to share two things, The Magic Eraser for glass cleaning, For hoods and plastic parts Crusted over in hard white water deposits Soak in a pan of vinegar! I had filter parts i was ready to throw out that came clean after soaking for a few days (it will eat rubber)
@VK4VO8 жыл бұрын
Nice project John,, I just finished my new tank a couple of weeks back. A new 90 with PFS as well. It looks fantastic. My sand was very clean to start with, a few rinses in a bucket and I had zero cloudiness when I filled the tank.
@didleydo4 жыл бұрын
I use both sand and gravel. I put the sand down for my plants and then add the gravel on top. This has worked well.
@judasjunior65034 жыл бұрын
Does the gravel sink to the bottom?
@reptileguy84583 жыл бұрын
Black background and tan pool sand substrate. Hmmm.....I was going to go with a white sand. ( African cichlid mix) but I think I like the pool sand look better. I too have my sides and back painted black.
@ScottM8 жыл бұрын
Great update and sand maintenance video sounds great.
@aptbid20075 жыл бұрын
I never thought of painting the back of my 125, great idea. Now what to do with my fish while I work on my only tank?
@PULAG3 жыл бұрын
Do you recommend moving fish to another tank before switching substrate or can I do it with them in there?
@danielwcheng63814 жыл бұрын
Hey thanks for the video...but I got a question concerning a broken tank...I have 55 gal tank where plastic center broke. and ofcourse the front glass is now bulging out a bit, Using 24in vise I kept the front and back glass from bulging. But now here's the question are there any tips/resource you can recommend about transferring plants from the 55 gal established tank to a new one? My plan is to move from a 40 gaL bowfront to a new standard 75 gal 4 fish: Jack Dempsey, Pleco and T-Barb and Synoditis cat. Then reestablish the 40 with plants from the 55 and eventually move the 55 gal community tank fish to the 40 bowfront.. What do you think?
@RadicalMT158 жыл бұрын
Nice looking tank John. I really like that half moon rock you have there. By the way... No disrespect here. Your wife have a beautiful black hair. Good luck with this new re-do for the Discus.
@darrenparsons19888 жыл бұрын
looking good boss. cost me a fortune in black aquarium sand for my 5ft but will probably get pool filter sand for my 3 new tanks.
@hotchnerpittman35668 жыл бұрын
I used multipurpose sand, washed it about 14 times, put it in the tank, let it sit for a day (it was so cloudy It looked like I poured milk in the tank) the next day it was crystal clear. Play sand is fine, as is sands other than "pool filter sand" don't let people tell you that you're limited to one kind of sand because in reality sand is all made from the same compound: Quartz. Just different grain sizes.
@hugocarreon65232 жыл бұрын
One question. Wouldn’t draining all the water ruin your cycle of the tank? Do I keep some of the water and poor it back when I fill it back up?
@camronthomas394 Жыл бұрын
Yes a sand substrate video please !
@dlaw19543 жыл бұрын
I'm late for this one, but can confirm that play sand takes literally forever to clean. My wife and I made the "mistake" of using it for her betta/neon planted tank, the water still clouds up during water changes no matter how careful we are.
@dwainkitchel13168 жыл бұрын
I added 1/3 sand covered bottom to my L260 set up, i am old school and sand scares me with the chance for anaerobic bacteria pockets...but i am adjusting slowly. The other 2/3 are gravel and plant substrata and the a layer of styrofoam for my rockwork to set on. Would love to see the further videos you spoke about. Have enjoyed this series on the tank tear down thx!
@michaelthemootz27977 жыл бұрын
Hey I'm sorry if this has been asked but I've taken quite the interest to the stand you made. Do you have a video on how you built it, dimensions and such? I've got a 125 and a 75 that I wanted to stack but my stand I'm using doesn't permit that.
@brukernavn16 жыл бұрын
Play sand often has a lot of silt in it to keep more moisture so it sticks together better
@Cyberchild1015 жыл бұрын
Lighthouse on a rock island some open water more rocks and a shipwreck but a realistic shipwreck would be sweet
@teaforthree14 жыл бұрын
Sand looks great, I want it for my new tank as I like corycats. But how do you grow plants in it?
@kinglyzard4 жыл бұрын
Very easily in my experience. They need fertilizer though
@providedjoker26498 жыл бұрын
Very informative n helpful. I'm going to do my 55 gallon tank that exact same way u showed us!! THANK YOU!! 👍👍
@cmchamp135 жыл бұрын
I got 50lb bags at Home Depot for $5
@AlphaAussies5 жыл бұрын
Do you have to do anything to it before putting it in the tank?
@BUJU20075 жыл бұрын
@@AlphaAussies probably just wash it. Put it in a bucket and fill with water. Mix it up and throw out the dirty water. Repeat until the water looks clear.
@hooftrim45895 жыл бұрын
can one run a" reverse flow" undergravel filter, with fine sand?
@JohnJames.5 жыл бұрын
@@hooftrim4589 , I would say no, I used cheap play sand , and nothing gets through
@brigidnativio37724 жыл бұрын
Wow
@allisonbehringer27908 жыл бұрын
Great video... Sand maintenance? Yes please!
@cyrvanessa2 жыл бұрын
Help! We made the rookie mistake of dumping the sand right into our 45 gallon tank. It is winter in Canada so running the hose outside is not an option, anyway to salvage the water in the tank?
@Mreye455 жыл бұрын
You can put the the sand in a pillow case and rubber band it to the hose. Way more efficient.
@MacHamish3 жыл бұрын
Yup, definatly rinse the sand outside as you do not want to get sand in your house plumbing system.
@vvv12274 жыл бұрын
Awesome video Sir only my suggestion was you could have use window film for your background glass just my suggestion anyways beautiful video Greetings from India 🍻🍻🍻
@lucashuff11534 жыл бұрын
What is the best paint to use on the back of the Aquarium, something that doesn’t scratch off very easy. I’m fixing to get a new tank Saturday and was gonna pick up a Black color for the background. Does it have to be a paint for acrylic? Also can I keep 4 full grown Angelfish in a 37 gallon tall? I’ve got 10 Corydora’s also, but if it’s good to go with the 4 in a 37, can I put a few schooling fish with them, or just stay with my soon to be new setup?
@joselavoy85914 жыл бұрын
after like 10 vids that i prefer...u had it all ty for everything! i had to subscribe now!..also new to fish keeping.. i didn't know it would be a thing for me :")
@FishingFloridaWater2 жыл бұрын
I switched to sand for my 10 gallon I'm liking it compared to gravel. I found all kinds of stuff under the gravel it I had just cleaned that tank a week before I removed the gravel the gravel had green stuff under it and fish poop was bad.
@djneoda15353 жыл бұрын
LOOKS GREAT GREAT video Thanks for the advice Peace ✌
@samvelez89414 жыл бұрын
I just recently bought a 110 gallon tank extra high I have about twenty-four African I have three canister filters running on I think it's a little bit Overkill but it does the job well then I got some plans hanging on the back some bambooand I just want to know if this tank is capable of holding that many fish or should I just get another tank and separate some let me know what you think appreciate it
@j.bishop7888 Жыл бұрын
Hey there, my tank is healthy but I hate the large size substrate that came with it (second hand) it has served us well for years, but it is large and gaudy. I prefer more natural colours in a much finer size. How do I change it out? I have contemplated just adding the finer gravel as a top dressing. My Cory Dora’s, mollies and mystery snails happily breed in this tank and I don’t want to disrupt their happiness… thoughts?
@kingraider83185 жыл бұрын
Quick question is that a home made stand for the 2 tanks and 2 filters or is there a place I can check out to purchase one?
@susannesteele5355 жыл бұрын
Sand maintenance would be a great topic.
@vanschermerhorn71673 жыл бұрын
What type or name brand of paint are you using ? I am watching your video on you cleaning and preparing the tank that is laying on it's side . I just purchased a 6 ft. tank 18 inches tall 24 inches wide . Haven't been able to find background scenery . Can you help or I have no choice but to paint . Thank you
@oliviaholly93822 жыл бұрын
hi only just discovered your channel and im sooo glad i did!! i have sand substrate and live plants but was told by the fish store i needed the aquarium soil, this has made my tank super messy :( do you use soil with the plants that are in your tank? i have plant nutrient drops would this make up fir the soil? thanks youre amazing :)
@kylecarter55028 жыл бұрын
I love pool filter sand. it's in every tank I have except my saltwater tank. oh and on a side note. 6 bags of 40lb sand is 240lbs.
@buelliganx13 жыл бұрын
I'm glad I'm not the only one that caught that lol
@kylecarter55023 жыл бұрын
@@buelliganx1 lol yup. surprising too. they are usually pretty good with their math.