Sword of Convallaria: Is There Value To This Over Standard SRPGs?

[@veldryn01]

The game is free so I don't mind the monitezation. Don't love them either. But my rule is don't spend more than what you would spend on a game that ain't free to play. 🤷‍♂️ For exemple, I paid 31$ for the character selector. It's still less than what I paid for my last night at the movie theater. And it'll give me more than 2h of fun.

[@miorioff]

Exactly, I absolutely agree that people should value things in comparison. SoC's campaign story mode is already worth more than a 30$ to me, so I don't mind paying for it. And it's almost completely void of gacha Sadly high rank pvp will be a whale sea, but it is what it is. It should still be fun at lower ranks

[@calenthebard2051]

So freaking well said in the beginning! Predatory monetization for vulnerable people. Always love your content.

[@CoffeePotato]

@@calenthebard2051 Glad to entertain, thanks!

[@Ehins]

Funny thing I got an add for the game before the video😂

[@CoffeePotato]

@@Ehins Same, funnily enough.

[@OhnoesFroz]

It's not worth picking up this game if you feel like you're going to be tempted to buy into the gacha system. And generally the model for these games is to CONSTANTLY REMIND YOU AND TEMPT YOU to do exactly that. There's usually an entry offer that seems to be a good deal, but it exists to start you spending. Once you start spending it's going to be easier and easier to get you to spend a little more each time. And a little more. And a little more. And a little more. And all of this is fine if you have the money for it and understand how much you're paying for these little dopamine rushes. But if you do not intend to spend, the best way to go about it is to not install a gacha. Save yourself a ton of money and stress and fomo and buy a steam deck for your portable gaming.

[@CoffeePotato]

@@OhnoesFroz Which is why the next video is to only play it on consoles, where you can skip all that.

[@benedict6962]

In the one corner, you have time travel-ish meta commentary exposition mcguffin gacha In the other corner, you have crazy politics rng roguelite radiant historia easy mode And both of them have an unhealthy attraction to explosives. I mean, really? Explosive barrels in your churches? JUSTIFIED IN LORE!?

[@CoffeePotato]

Not gonna lie, I kinda appreciate the fact that a town hires you for defense, and one of the first dialogue choices is "just pack that shit with explosive barrels and let's party". Maybe this is all a weird Chinese prequel to Borderlands.

[@benedict6962]

@@CoffeePotato the barrels are explosive. The spells are explosive. The arrows are explosive. The plants are explosive. Even your super special main character power is "what if actually there was an explosive here uwu"

[@Bandit-do4ko]

Thumbnail is amazing

[@CoffeePotato]

@@Bandit-do4ko Thanks!

[@Eevban32]

You know? "Shiny rocks" sounds like something the fairies would come up with.

[@CoffeePotato]

Or game devs with rent due 🤣

[@Eevban32]

@@CoffeePotato The fairies are the landlords.

[@ktrev34]

If you enjoy the game and give yourself a monthly budget they are not always bad, for example the monthly pack gives you like 30$ value in currency per day for 5$. I usually budget 10$ to 15$ a month, and part of the fun is learning where the best bang for your buck is, but yeah these games can be dangerous.

[@MidlifeCrisisJoe]

I spent too much money already on FF Record Keeper and Brave Exvius back when they both came out, then played the Fire Emblem phone game F2P . . . before eventually spending too much money on that too. I learned there's no way for me to resist all their pressure forever, so I'm done with this monetization model entirely. I don't care anymore if someone comes out with the best game ever at this point, if it uses a gacha model, hard pass.

[@CoffeePotato]

That's fair, and good on you for holding to your limits. Known too many people that couldn't say the same.

[@LenKim-dg9to]

Feh should be sued tbh it’s quite malicious

[@ryanmiller5700]

It's a good game of you can look past the monetization, but a lot of people won't. Just take what the game gives you on the gacha side and have some self control. If you want to play the game for free, you can, because there are some whales out there paying the price of admission.

[@CoffeePotato]

@@ryanmiller5700 Wasn't there some movie dystopia about stuff like this...?

[@ryanmiller5700]

@@CoffeePotato Idiocracy?

[@CoffeePotato]

@@ryanmiller5700 It was some other one, tip of my tongue...

[@ACSMEX]

@@CoffeePotato The guy is right (depending on how well you can play by going full F2P). I have like 1600 hours in Black Desert (its HEAVELY monetized) and have not spend a penny. Let the whales whale, the game is structured in such a way that people spending money do not diminish my experience and actually improves it, since the way it works is that they buy stuff with real money and then put it the markethouse so I can get it for in-game currency. They get a lot of silver from F2P players, and F2P players get cash-store customes and stuff. As long as you dont get paywalled, the model works fine.

[@CoffeePotato]

@@ACSMEX Depends on what it is, though. A game like this is made in a pick up and play format, but all of the menus to get the game launched past the updates and gacha stuff scream MMO or other sit down experience. Even OSRS has less startup time, and that's weird to me. I want to play it, but have to go back to dealing with the kids or something but the time it's done throwing stuff out. The game itself seems fine, and *so far* I've found the gacha to be relegated to it's tumor box, but those menus are a bummer.

[@SundayMatinee]

I play a few gacha games - started with Genshin, then HSR, then Wuwa, and now SoC. Yes, gacha games prey on those who are susceptible to gambling addiction. But personally, I enjoy optimization - seeing how much you can do with limited resources. And that's basically what a gacha game is. The game limits you in resources using a daily stamina system and by a wish system. I take those limitations and see how well I can build my account while enjoying good gameplay, good art, good music, and a good story if possible. I've done all this while strictly limiting my spending on the games. I only buy the $5 monthly pass that is the best value to get wish currency (except for Wuwa, where I splurged once to buy a battle pass for the battle pass weapon). I see this as a fair compromise to support the game and pay for my entertainment. At this pace, I pay $20 per month for literally hundreds of hours of gameplay. Compare that to paying for multiple streaming services to mindlessly watch hundreds of hours of garbage, and it's a no-brainer. And, if you're very disciplined, you can play all these games for absolutely free - just deal with what the game gives you. If you're not mentally strong enough to prevent yourself from "paying to win," honestly, that's not a deficiency in the game. It's a deficiency in your personal character. If you find this to be the case, certainly don't play gacha games, and instead reflect on why it is you are susceptible to predatory mechanics. 🤔

[@YurGa1980]

2 minutes in and this is exactly it. It feels like they made an actual game first and then just had to slap all that free to play stuff over it so the game ended up being almost totally split between real game and mobile game. Like most non-basic mechanics aren't even the same between those two game modes. Edit: it gets pretty hefty if you push the difficulty, though you can always just do easier missions.

[@zipperman6045]

From my perspective anyone who claims to care for the video game industry shouldn't support this and since player numbers are a key metric just playing it is supporting it.

[@KidArkx]

No, that would just injure our chances at more games like this. If we get more strategy mobile games they can cause competition which would hep

[@CoffeePotato]

@@zipperman6045 That said, their average dollar per player drops significantly if no one pays for anything. This deal feels more like a compromise experiment to me, I haven't seen 7-8 pop ups in a row for anything.

[@CoffeePotato]

@@KidArkx I'd like to see more Into The Breach style stuff. Some brand makes it free. Already got Netflix, so that's nice. It's a pretty gross market overall.

[@KidArkx]

@CoffeePotato I'd like to add as a mobile player for years. People need to learn self control. I've spent maybe 800 dollars on mobile games since college 10 years ago and ive had tons of fun and made hundreds if not thousands of summons. Some people spend 800 in a week the complain about tiers and the game being predatory. I do suppose they are good at psychological manipulation, but the onus is on us for self control.

[@calenthebard2051]

​@@KidArkxthere should be protections in place. Gambling is limited to adults in real life. This shit should be regulated too. No excuse. People do get hurt by the psychological tricks and if you think they should just learn self control you really need to research how addiction works on the brain. You're not the target audience if you're not pulled in in that way.

[@user-hr5di5fg8b]

Have you played valkyria chronicles the 1st and 4th games?

[@CoffeePotato]

@@user-hr5di5fg8b I've played the first and the PSP one.

[@user-hr5di5fg8b]

@@CoffeePotato the 4th is good as well you should check it out it always on sale as well.

[@Bandit-do4ko]

I played the first one and really liked it. How was #4?

[@user-hr5di5fg8b]

@@Bandit-do4ko 4 is good it really should have been the proper follow up to 1, since 2 and 3 way different games.

[@ceasec]

Yeah, I get your opinion, and I think that’s valid. On the other side, I think gachas can be monetized in a way where people can get immense value out of playing them as a live service game, and the amount they do or don’t pay doesn’t need to be egregious. Here’s a comparison: if I play an MMO with a subscription, or I buy cosmetics in a game, or I pay for DLC, these are methods for monetizing a game. Gachas have pulls. If I pay $10 a month or $60 (price of a game), that doesn’t seem appalling to me. On that note, I could decide not to pay anything at all ever and still engage with the game.

[@CoffeePotato]

@@ceasec Yeah, I agree completely. Look at OSRS. It's basically an MMO SRPG, and has been going strong for decades on that formula.

[@xZeke97]

I've been playing for a few days now, as a gacha its pretty horrible, the rate is good but the pity is absolutely horrendous (ive put 120 pulls into col+berryl and gotten 3 col, i need 180 for beryl pity) Game is fun though, ill play it casually for now.

[@curtismanning6129]

Gacha games have probably the worst monetization possible, I hate this economic system with passion, and I don't understand those players that I call "gacha hunters" that jump from gacha to gacha every two weeks. With that said, sometimes I do play games despite them being gachas, because the gameplay is actually good. That's the case with Sword of Convallaria. I love everything about this game except the fact that it's a gacha. They did try to release a story mode that has almost no ties to the gacha system, which they didn't have to do. And the story mode loop is very well done, I like the rogue like touch that they added. Monetization is bad, as excepted, but at least in this game I can have fun with the less rare units because most of them are good enough to clear the content. To fully enjoy a gacha you have to mentally defeat the gacha system and not "care" about all these daily quests, shiny rewards that will at some point make your head go crazy and be willing to spend a few bucks and that will be too late. Enjoying this game is possible, but we have to proceed with caution. But damn, so far I'm having a blast.

[@VictorJapaXD]

It is bad but isnt the "worst monetization possible", and you know the worst, gacha nowadays with the regulation that happened and with the market and the audience developed as it is, is way better than the worst, which is EA with EA FC, and 2k with NBA 2k. Both games use the same monetization, and its miles worst than any gacha could ever be nowadays. Well you cant beat the Americans is this type of monetization, and i thought that korean MMOs were bad, until i played EA FC and NBA 2k again because of game pass, but... my goodness it literally is cassino, you don have pity system, they dont show the actual rates, only the proximity, like

[@curtismanning6129]

@@VictorJapaXD For EA FC is a gacha, but yeah it's the worst. Only lasts one year too

[@lorenzorizzoni807]

Even if the single player side is good, the context is still problematic. Vast majoriity of poeople that starts just for the non gacha cotent, will at least try the gacha at a certain point and a percentage of them will get into it, it is bound to happen. To me this seems like just a more refined gateway drug into gachas. I see a lot of classic jrpg content creators thst talk about this game, exposing gacha to a potentially new audience.

[@troysean9377]

Does it force you to put your credit card on the game for it to work?

[@minakoarisato1506]

​@troysean9377 no I just went to Google play, hit install, when the game loaded up it asked if I wanted to link account or use guest. I picked guest and then played through tutorial then promptly ignored gacha mechanics.

[@troysean9377]

@@minakoarisato1506 exactly. It's always up to the person who's playing whether he wants to use his money or not on a game that he enjoys. These people make it seem like gachas are forcing people to lose money. I played Epic seven for years without spending money lol. Lots of content for free. This game looks just as good especially to people who likes tactics games.

[@megaspacewaffles]

Hate to say it but yeah, I agree with the first person. It doesn’t require your credit card to play. You can play a gacha with success without spending anything

[@ancientrunekrp6895]

You know it's bad when the best deal is actually the 30 dollar option to pick the unit you want

[@Scatterblades]

They make full fledged srpg game, then slap gacha into it 🤣 i just hope that they just create a premium game than making the premium game only a part in a mode (spiral of destiny), that is basically what we will aim to do in the game despite our grinding in normal mode, which not really help us in spiral of destiny since all get reset anyway.

[@lloyd011721]

does this require online to play? or can i just pop it on my deck and go offline and play?

[@MrDisaster2000]

I can't say with 100% certainty, but I'd say not as it seems to require access to the servers to play.

[@seapeajones]

Online.

[@TexasOmertosa]

I would like to know why you specifically seem to have such a distaste for gacha games. I consider this one of the most generous games in the gacha industry, but even if it weren't I wouldn't have such a hatred for it. I don't understand why this business model seems to disgust you to your very core. Plenty of games have predatory business marketing, but it all comes down to how you feel in the end... For me, I'm paying for dopamine, and I acknowledge that. I love to see my favorite characters in skins that I bought them, I like to unlock cool characters that are close to my heart, and seeing someone like you have such a hatred for this business model makes me sad that you are not able to appreciate it in the same way as I do. If you're unable to look past the business model, I understand, but why continue hating so hard for a game that isn't forcing you or anyone else to play?

[@CoffeePotato]

@@TexasOmertosa I grew up around addicts of various kinds. Anything that causes that nightmare through any means is immediately distasteful to me. It's frustrating, because the single player mode is a legitimately good game. While I was raised by an alcoholic and pill addict, and saw several people ruin their lives to gambling...I also saw several people get divorced because of one "oh it's just a couple bucks" micro transaction spiraling into an expensive divorce causing sunk cost fallacy nightmare. Yes, people should control themselves, but some are just programmed to be hyper vulnerable to this stuff. Just like how I *should* write a script, but that's just not in my wheelhouse 😆

[@TexasOmertosa]

@@CoffeePotatoThank you for your response, I am able to see why someone in your situation would despise gacha games. It’s a shame more people can’t have a healthy relationship with these kinds of games

[@CoffeePotato]

@@TexasOmertosa Depends on the game, though. I'm in it for the mechanics, and I see what I like on the single player side of this one. War of the Visions? Nothing but number crunch. Not a fan of number crunch.

[@HenriqueRJchiki]

This game is actually pretty sad, you can see they were trying to build an actual game and were forced into making it a gacha by suit executives. The story mode of this game (SPIRAL MODE, THE ONE YOU USE KEYS TO ACCESS NOT FOOL MODE) is pretty okay especially since its free, but you quickly find it's obnoxiously easy to the point you can auto all stages with no problem (I was maxed mercenary company level and I did select the publish option every rank up so literally max possible difficulty) also incredibly repetitive you'll see the same maps and enemies all the time not to mention it is incredibly padded with boring and useless content. Such a shame.

[@courve]

I don’t think this works for people who aren’t actively trying to get gacha’d. I played final fantasy brave exvius, and I’ll defend that game to the end of universe as being VERY generous to free players, and never really making you want to spend money to feel “normal”. Even so, it was still just gacha BS. No amount of accommodations can mask the flavor of what it actually is. You still feel chewed up and spit out once you finally quit even if you never paid a cent.

[@RatedB1]

Selling hope yikes XD

[@Fleshlight_Reviewer]

Mobile games 🤮

[@CoffeePotato]

@@Fleshlight_Reviewer Unless it's like Into the Breach, XCOM2 or OSRS. Those are good use cases for this.

[@megaspacewaffles]

So if Resident Evil 7. lol “Mobile Game” Isn’t really an insult anymore I feel

[@YuriDSC]

Currently the majority of gamers and most successful games are on mobile. Get used to it, lil bro.

[@HappyMutantSpeaks]

Into the Breach is epic but FTL is a true masterpiece.

[@megaspacewaffles]

@@HappyMutantSpeaks true! I love Into the breach

[@YuriDSC]

Bro barely managed to string 5 sentences together without kakling like Harris... You buying this game doesn't keep the lights on, them putting it in a gacha format does. It's not 2004 anymore and we're not in Kansas, Dorothy. As a f2p I see absolutely no issue so far.

[@cesare4214]

Lol you have kids, a car, a house too, right ? But no internet on your phone ? 😅 And you judge a game depending if its online or not in 2024 ? You use public wifi's to play games, are you homeless ? 😂