SWORDS of AUSTRIA - M1861 Infantry Officer's Sabre & More

[@matusfekete6503]

After 1924 Czechoslovakia adopted this blade for armed forces with new asymetric guard (wide flat bow with two or three - depending on service branch and rank - narrow flat bars). Some were made with old imperial blades. This sword pattern is currently used for honor guard in both Czechia and Slovakia.

[@nilsmadej9091]

Those sabers are almost as sharp as the 'stache!

[@historyandsabre]

Haha, thanks!

[@ramibairi5562]

Very informative video with a unique quality and presentation ! Keep it up !

[@historyandsabre]

Thanks for your strong support Rami, I very much appreciate it!

[@LordRivers]

Absolutely loved this! Very informative and extremely well produced!

[@historyandsabre]

Thanks again very much! You've got a great channel and style yourself :)

[@victoryshieldtacticalllc3534]

Thank you for this! I just purchased one at the flea market for $20 USD. I was confused a bit because the blade on mine seemed odd - almost too new looking compared to the handle and sheath. . I thought it was maybe a fake, but the handle and sheath seemed period correct. The blade is not sharp and seems to be plated (nickel maybe). I think it’s the dress version if it’s real. The interesting thing is that the pommel cap is flat like your fighting version and also has a monogram on the flat pommel cap but everything else resembles your dress version. The blade has a tang stamp but isn’t really legible. It says something like “**iller&C” followed by “Vien” or “Wien” maybe. It looks like some letters have worn off, but I’m not sure. I love buying old blades or bayonets and hearing about the history! Thanks again!

[@historyandsabre]

Hi, nice purchase! The markings on your example would most probably "Tiller & Co" and "Wien". The former was a uniforms ans equipment retailer based in Vienna's famous Mariahilferstraße (No. 22). "Wien" is simply just the German name for Vienna.

[@victoryshieldtacticalllc3534]

@@historyandsabre Wow! Thank you for the reply and the great video!

[@buco5613]

Thanks for the info... I just purchased this swords in austria

[@historyandsabre]

Glad my video could be of help, enjoy your M1861! :)

[@nylemonday8630]

This is wonderful information. You should write a book!

[@historyandsabre]

That's very kind of you, though there are others who are way more knowledgeable than me :) I'm just trying to bring some attention to these objects!

[@pardubiceswordplayassociat2120]

My M1861: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pGnNgp-Ces6qgq8 Overall length: 96cm Blade length: 82cm Weight 795g (1370g including scabbard) PoB: 18cm Blade width: 30mm Back width: 7mm Manufacturer: Johan Zelinka (Vienna)

[@historyandsabre]

Hi, sounds like a fairly typical but certainly well made example! Nice one!

[@eliasnew5478]

I’ve got one with a makers mark on one side of the blade, weyersberg & Kirschbaum in Solingen, and a name and address in Budapest on the other. I imagine that would be the retailer rather than the owner? It’s in decent condition and has got a 1. WW ribbon on it - any idea what it’s worth? Also have you got any advice re maintenance and cleaning of the blade? Cheers

[@historyandsabre]

Exactly, your blade was made in Solingen. The other name would most likely be the sword cutler assembling and finishing all the parts into the final sword. I can't say without seeing it but an average M1861 will go between € 100 - 300 depending the condition and other factors. Regarding maintenence, make sure to wipe it down with some gun oil (or similar) whenever you've touched the blade or other metals parts that are not nickel plated. Cheers!

[@ThiLI0n]

Hi, thank you for the video! How far forward is the balance on the "practical" version? I have one but I'm not used to sabers, so I'm wondering if it has a blade from another saber on it...

[@historyandsabre]

I don't have the example shown in the video anymore but I just checked on a similar M1861: - Mass: 590 g - Blade length: 75.5 cm - PoB: 15 cm

[@ThiLI0n]

@@historyandsabre Thanks for the answer! Then it seems to be within spec :-) Can you recommend a manual suitable for this? I'm Austrian so language-wise it should be fine

[@t030609]

Thanks for the informative video! I have a very similar sword. Hilt is identical to the "fighting-weight" sabre in your video, but the blade is short (75 cm), 28mm wide at the base and only 5mm thick. Overall weight is only 600 grams. The blade has "zimbler" and something else written on it. The sword is in a very poor shape and its hilt is a bit loose. Do you know if I can disassemble the hilt for cleaning or at least tighten it somehow? Would be grateful for any help.

[@historyandsabre]

Hi, thanks for the comment! It sounds like your sabre could be a slightly shorter but still fairly standard M1861, the ones I showed in this video are also on the slighly shorter side. As for the maker, could it be "ZEITLER" from Vienna (Wien)? Sadly, I am no expert when it comes to taking swords apart but I could ask the person I sent the larger one in the video to for restoration. He took it apart completely and re-peened it.

[@t030609]

@@historyandsabre I managed to disassemble mine. The cap on the end of the hilt simply unscrews, and underneath is the peened tang end. So far attempts to peen it further were quite unsuccessful, unfortunately. Even though I have peened literally hundreds of rivets in my life. I am considering disassembling the whole thing, cleaning it and then putting it back together. Will be a lot of work, but doable.

[@historyandsabre]

@@t030609 Thanks for letting me know, do you have any idea at all for why it didn't work?

[@esgrimaxativa5175]

thanks for sharing! This model served as an inspiration for some Spanish sabers. Here's a few links. vicentetoledo.es/sites/default/files/SABLE%20Academia%20General%20Militar%20modelo%201883.pdf vicentetoledo.es/sites/default/files/SABLE%20General%201882.pdf These Spanish sabers are around 500-600 grams and are not considered simply dress swords; there was another one for that. Spain was quite involved in colonial warfare/skirmishes at this time in North Africa, Cuba, and the Philippines.

[@historyandsabre]

Thank *you* for sharing, that wasn't on my radar at all. The inspiration is very apparent. And sure they were functional swords (I think I said that in the video if I remember correctly). It's just that the lighter one was clearly made as an easier to wear example. Are you aware of any first hand accounts of (colonial) Spanish warfare involving this type of sabre? Thanks again for watching!

[@jeremy4655]

Do you think the knuckle bow was enough protection for sabre on sabre or sabre on spadroon combat? Seems quite interesting that earlier swords of Europe and those without contact with drastically different styles of swords use were fine with such simple protection.

[@historyandsabre]

It definitely offers less protection but is easier to make and also easier to wear. Also, roughly before the 16th century, the most common European fencing systems used retracted guard positions, which also changes the dynamic in that regard. Speaking of later military swords and sabres, it's hard to tell what is "enough" without looking at their various intended use cases. Just from my fencing and from anyone else's I know is that you'll definitely get hit in the hands while using only a knucklebow.

[@jeremy4655]

@@historyandsabre brilliant thank you

[@pardubiceswordplayassociat2120]

Can you help me idetify reg. of my M1861? Is marked "1.J.R. 50" and remarked "TR 1574". Could it be "Tiroler Jäger-Regimenter"?

[@historyandsabre]

Hi, J. R. could be "Infanterie Regiment" as the capital *I* was commonly written in a similar fashion as *J* in Fraktur. So your sabre would have been used by the k.u.k. Infanterieregiment „Kaiser“ Nr. 1. TR could mean different things, so I'm not sure about that one. Really not an expert here!

[@pardubiceswordplayassociat2120]

Vielen Dank!

[@PotanCZ]

​@@pardubiceswordplayassociat2120 If you bought in the "Czech auction" - its really not impossible to be IR1, since it was stationed in Austrain (now czech) Silesia - so its not really suprising, that somebody from CZ would have it in possesion as heirloom for sale. But there is a thing, that Austrains tended to "number" ther regiments as "Infanterie Regiment Number X" and not "Number X Infanterie Regiment" . And in that case, IR 50 was "hungarian regiment" - not impossible, but quite far away. Also there would be question what that 1 would stand for. Which brings me to it, if its not 1JR 50 and not 1IR 50, but LIR 50, as Landwehr Infantry Regiment 50 - but there were fewer then 50 Landwehr regiments. So were back as at the start - nowhere. :) But if we go with IR1 theory, whats the 50 at the end? For the "Tyrolean sabre" - It would not be TR as Tyrolean, but more likely TK as Tyrolean Kaiserjäger or even more likely just as FB as Feldjäger-Bataillon. Also I have no idea what that 1574 would possibly stand for. :)

[@Skankhunt-uf4nd]

Where can i buy it

[@historyandsabre]

Auctions, sellers and private sellers all over Austria, Hungary ans all the other nations that were formally part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. It's a really common sabre still and you can get a decent example for 100-200€.

[@Skankhunt-uf4nd]

@@historyandsabrei have one in pure condition, my grandfather hawe taken it from austrohungarian officer after he kiled him in battle

[@Skankhunt-uf4nd]

@@historyandsabre actually great grandfather

[@ramibairi5562]

Are you aware of any historical accounts on the use of Austrian swords/sabres in action?

[@historyandsabre]

I'm not aware of any but I haven't really looked into it to be honest. I might do so in the future :)

[@ladis-jc3bd]

Look e.g. for some pics from the Austrian-Prussian War in 1866 or photos/pics from WWI. Especially from the WWI thery're plenty of them.

[@mundog5217]

Anywhere I could by u new/reproduction pf this sword

[@historyandsabre]

Well, WCK makes them for the Austrian army, for instance. They are not meant to be used as swords, though. Also VB Swordshop in Hungary made a couple of these for the Hungarian army recently. Honestly though, there are so many antique M1861 around that you can buy. A decent example will cost you 100-200€. Cheers.

[@pavlevasalic]

I have such a narrower model!

[@historyandsabre]

Nice, they are pretty!

[@baldieman64]

Interesting comparison: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKuqmqehiZ2bfc0