Thumb Rings on Swords - EXPLAINED

Today I'm looking at the thumb ring, its history and its use. Thumb rings were a very common feature on all kinds of swords between the late 16th and 18th century.
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- Image credits (Dussack) Norsk Folkemuseum: digitaltmuseum.no/01102324666...
Lincense: creativecommons.org/licenses/...
- Image credits (Walloon sword): commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
License: creativecommons.org/licenses/...
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[@Overdrawn_]

Main feature of the thumb ring that was not talked about in the video is that it allows to relax your grip when you are swinging and doing moulinets. It is especially usefull with weapons that have far POB You know like dussacks and cavalry sabres. "Polish sabres" most typical pob is around +20cm so very far in comparison to sabres used in 1st half of XIX century. Using the thumb ring allows to create the point of support that perfectly counteracts the inertia that these weapons can create during swings. Imagine that you need to swing around a lead pipe that at the same time is very slippy. It forces you to grip the pipe very hard with your fingers just to counteract the inertia created during swings. Now add a thumbring, all of a sudden slippyness of the pipe does not matter that much as your thumb by itself can keep the pipe from flying away from your hand. Now all other fingers are free from death gripping the pipe and can start working to power the swings.

[@historyandsabre]

Good point about letting the thumb do most of the work. Gripping the sword very tightly all the time (that is when you're not actually striking the target or parrying) isn't a great idea anyway, so I agree with you!

[@midshipman8654]

seems useful. have a decently heavy light cavalry sword, and ive found this a problem when doing moulinets. even slipped out of my hands a few times.

[@AJKecsk]

Exactly this. And one step further - having a strong, stable support by the circle of thumb and forefinger allows you to loosen the middle finger slightly, and the third and fourth fingers completely. These loose back fingers allow you to throw cuts in a completely different way - in Polish fencing, there's an entire art to throwing cuts powered by the motion of closing the (loose) back fingers tightly onto the hilt. It's sometimes called an Ivanowski cut or Ivanowski moulinet.

[@jacl2778]

That's a dapper moustache my dude. Nice.

[@historyandsabre]

Cheers! :)

[@SuperOtter13]

Just out of curiosity. Do you have a favorite mustache wax? Haven't found one im happy with.

[@edi9892]

Well, an Austrian with a short mustache wouldn't fly well today... PS: I got mocked because I'm Austrian, did aquarel, lived in Munich, and had an abusive dad.

[@SuperOtter13]

I have an affinity for thumb rings. Polish Sabres and tessak/dusak are my favorite type of swords aestheticaly. So happy to find this video. Good point about the popularity of thumb rings across Europe eastern asia not just Polish and Hungarian lands.

[@CapitanCarter]

I had a Dussack made for me in 2019, I made sure it had a thumb ring on it. I find that the open top style of thumb ring is not prohibitive in any way, as it is easy to lift the thumb in and out of for point work and keep a nice relaxed grip during cutting. It also allows the Twerhau cuts with the thumb on the flat

[@mikeseymour1792]

I wonder how the popularly of the saber grip over the hammer grip effected the development or popularity of the thumb ring?

[@historyandsabre]

Good question but thumb rings were already out of use for the most part when people started using the thumb up sabre grip, which was adapted from smallsword/foil and spadrion fencing :)

[@SuperOtter13]

So glad I found your channel! Binge watching all the past videos today.

[@historyandsabre]

Thanks and welcome aboard, I'm glad you found your way here! :)

[@alexhannah4216]

Thank you for this. I saw one of Oliver Cromwell's swords had a thumbring and was curious about it.

[@historyandsabre]

You're very welcome! And yeah, English Civil War era Mortuary hilts are a great example of straight bladed British swords which often had thumb rings! :)

[@bman6851]

Quite informative, keep up the good work.

[@historyandsabre]

Thanks, glad you liked it! I will try my best :)

[@wombat3455]

Fantastic explanation, really great!

[@historyandsabre]

Cheers! :)

[@anestischatzibeis]

great analysis!!! you ve just helped me with an order on a blacksmith! no thumb ring for me sir! the thrusting part of your analysis, helped me make that decision, thrusting is important for me

[@Dimetropteryx]

Thanks for this video. Have recently been looking at replicas of Swedish swords and noticed some of them had thumb rings. Wondered how common they were, and ended up here.

[@July__Frost]

What a beatiful saber! If I had to choose a saber for real duel I would take something from 19th century, with more advanced hilt, but... This so amazing. Will we see cutting videos with this beaty in future?

[@historyandsabre]

Hi again and thanks! I have a video just on this specific sabre coming up next week and you there will be some some cutting action aswell. I just need to finalise the edge before it's ready. Yes, I a more advanced hilt will of course provide more protection but I generally prefer the look of earlier sabres :)

[@abraxofficial]

@@historyandsabre Hi, sorry that I am late but I need to know what you guys mean by advanced hilt? How is it different from the hilt that you have on this video? Thank you in advance!

[@TheZerech]

The thumb rings seem to be especially popular with cavalry in the 17th century, Walloon swords and sabers of Eastern Europe, like yours, for example. The Wallace Collection A534 series of "military rapiers" is another, beautiful example of swords which are heavy cut and thrust swords (nearly 4 pounds! iirc). In Italy Schiavona have them. All of those are typically characterized as cavalry swords, although, yes, they were also found with infantry, it seems they came from the cavalry to the infantry. I do want to clarify that when people say 'Polish' and refer to the 17th century, and mean Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth they are referring to a state in which ethnic Poles were a minority, between Ukrainians and Belarusians (referred to at the time as Ruthenian) and Lithuanians, not to mention Germans, Jews, Italians, and Armenians centered in cities. I am not trying to diminish Poles or their culture, but I want to clarify that Ukrainians, Belarusians, Lithuanians, Romanians, Croats, and others used those sorts of sabers, for example, as much as Hungarians and Poles did. Think of referring to the whole of the British Isles as English. In Eastern Europe "hussar" sabers were quite common, Turkish, Caucasian, and Persian style sabers were also common. Unique styles developed with many influences and it was a fascinating period.

[@historyandsabre]

Hi and thanks for the comment, I really appreciate your time and input! :) I never intended to go into too much detail in this video regarding political and ethnic considerations so I'm glad you're providing some of that and are also mentioning some other types if swords with thumb rings that I didn't talk about. One thing I'm not so sure about, though, is that thumb rings in general first came from the cavalry to the infantry. The typical Styrian and Southern German Dussak of the 16th and 17th century was predominantly an infantry sword for military and self defense purposes which was very popular also among commoners and farmers. Thumb rings were often seen on cavalry swords, sure, but I don't think we can say for certain in which context - infantry or cavalry - they appeared first and oftentimes the distiction between cavalry and infantry swords wasn't as clear cut historically.

[@ratyoke]

Very interesting video!

[@hschan5976]

Can you make a video about index finger loops on sabres? They seem quite common on originals but are seldom mentioned in sabre manuscripts. Then again i havent read a lot so i might have missed stuff

[@historyandsabre]

I might do that at some point!

[@swordsmen8856]

I have become curious about the Hutton school of saber. He and even a few others said the foil would be best to start with if one wanted to learn saber. I was wondering if you might make a video further explaining the reasoning behind it.

[@historyandsabre]

Hutton's writings are a great resource, you'll find it very intersting! I'll think about making a video about your question, it's an interesting topic for sure!

[@tims1415]

More on this sword brother! I like it.

[@historyandsabre]

Cheers, it will pop up again in my videos I'm sure!

[@user-or5hr6rj1m]

Thank you.

[@edi9892]

I've seen Schiavona with both a thumbring and siderings. If I'm not mistaken, they are quite early examples of complex hilted swords. Regarding the wrist cuts: I guess that they used lighter sabers with a lower PoB and that lends itself to doing very quick wrist cuts, though both the combination of this type of blade and using only the wrist certainly limits the cutting potential, but then again they were used in a time where armor was virtually nonexistent and the only thing that may stop such a cut is thick clothing...

[@raphlvlogs271]

the thumb ring was also found on some English backswords and Scottish broadswords of the early modern era

[@jeremy4655]

I have been putting a lot of thought into which sword to get as my first sharp. Sorry if I missed it. Have you considered doing a comparisson between your reproduction sharps?

[@historyandsabre]

Nope, I haven't (yet)! It's on my list, I just haven't been able to put out a lot of videos recently. I will absolutely look at the Windlass 1796 in an upcoming video!

[@HobieH3]

Would you say that they fell out of favor as the training emphasis moved towards foot combat/fencing and away from mounted use?

[@csscszcsgv]

Really good video i just wonder how many soldiers had their thumbs broken due the saber "paluch" haha

[@dzmitryart3429]

Hi! I have seen some small black dots (marks) and lines on the blade of many sabers on youtube, is it okay in general?

[@historyandsabre]

Do you mean superficial rust or manufacturing marks?

[@jellekastelein7316]

It's interesting that they used half a thumb ring with the protective part removed after the whole one was invented. I don't practice HEMA, but that's not a weight issue, I'm guessing. Is it because your thumb can get caught and break in combat? Or is it the increased focus on thrusting?

[@shaneshackleford6960]

I wonder if adding a nagel on the other side of the thumbring will balance it better.

[@Riceball01]

It might, but it would come at the expense of comfort when being worn. There's a reason why swords/sabers with just a simple knuckle bow or an asymmetrical guard were common, that was so they could be worn more comfortably. The British took this one step further with a model of spadroon that actually had a folding guard on side so that it was it would be flatter on that side and more comfortable to wear and would possibly also rub less against your uniform.

[@TheEzio1991]

Is there a specific way you contacted Szabla Polska? I havent been able to get in contact with anyone.

[@historyandsabre]

I used a combination of Facebook and Email for correspondence but they were pretty slow at getting back to me either way.

[@romanista77]

Where do you get sharp sabres? I’ve found it hard to find good reproductions with nice handling/ distal taper.

[@historyandsabre]

Good question, this is what most practitioners or collectors struggle with! The sabre you see in this video was made by Szabla Polska and it also has very little distal taper. That's fairly accurate for what it wants to be, though. I have already filmed a video talking just about this sabre will which be up soon. Keep an eye on the channel next week and you'll learn all about it! :)

[@michaelvillasis1264]

@@historyandsabre Can't wait for your video about this szabla! Great stuff :)

[@wlewisiii]

@@historyandsabre I am looking forward to seeing that. I have looked at (I believe) the maker of that blade and had concerns about accuracy and usability.

[@historyandsabre]

@@wlewisiii I can tell you right away that the sabre is neither perfect nor cheap but I can see myself using it for a long time!

[@edi9892]

@@historyandsabre I've noticed that there aren't any decent replica of Austrian blades. This includes Bauernwehr, Dussack, and military sabers.

[@loudradialem5233]

If you strike something hard with it, won't the shock hurt your thumb?

[@historyandsabre]

It can be dangerous when you're getting disarmed or lose your sword for another reason but usually not.

[@-Bile-]

I had no idea styria was in austria. Id heard of it from castlevania, thats a really cool connection.

[@edi9892]

It's Steiermark in German. Fun fact: Romania was partially inside the Austrian Empire. Many Romanians today claim to be Germans from Siebenbürgen, which is like an Iranian calling himself a Persian... Also, Austrians had no small part in the vampire craze. For one, we had a princess that couldn't be in the sun and was buried in essentially a safe and had a S-ton of concrete poured on top. On the other side, soldiers in Romania freaked out over the sounds of a decomposing corpse and decapitated and burnt it, which encouraged the vampire fear that was already out of control... Another weird fun fact: in the same year in Vienna, A. H., Stalin, Tito, Freud, Einstein, and a whole bunch of others were seen in the Caffee Central. It's a weird idea that they might have actually met there and potentially even talked to each other...

[@historyandsabre]

Yep, now you know! :)

[@thrownswordpommel7393]

You get a sub for the mustache. Is it period accurate though ?

[@historyandsabre]

Thanks! Well, the way a moustache naturally grows is always the same, so I'd say yes haha.

[@nickvandop3916]

I found the thumbring to be pretty painful when using the sword

[@historyandsabre]

I'm *not* an expert on using thumb rings but I can tell you it shouldn't hurt!

[@haidernet6112]

Sword wide size

[@andrejmucic5003]

Men must learn to shave.

[@historyandsabre]

Wise words.