SYDNEY BANKS, ALCOHOLISM IS NOT A DISEASE, along with THOUGHT

[@jeanettebarr1282]

Wow this made everything seem so straight forward and simple! I'm plagued by intrusive thoughts and memories (thoughts) from my past and it really hinders my day to day living and this had really helped me see that I'm actually the problem, I'm letting my thoughts control day instead of understanding that I need to be more conscious that they are JUST thoughts. I dont have to let them effect me or let them turn into debilitating feelings.

[@Eye6400]

Excellent! I agree 100% that any type of addiction is not a disease!

[@Jimyblues]

The thoughts come first and they trigger the compulsion - I agree with Mr. Banks-

[@oolala53]

Well, as someone who used to be quite a compulsive eater, I have to say that the bodily urge often came first, and then a thought to defend eating in response. Thought was often in there, but not always first.

[@TheBaronQ8]

​@@oolala53 .... really ?! well how did you become compulsive eater ?! do you really plam it on your body ?! it following certain thought put you in compulsive eater.

[@larryc7209]

As a licensed addiction counselor for 15 years as well as a recovering alcoholic for 27 years, I can confirm addiction is, in fact a disease, although it is now referred to as alcohol use disorder (or another chemical disorder). The key is the obsession/compulsion, even if you are able to control it. As part of therapy, we encourage people to go to AA, NA, SMART recovery, Refuge recovery, Secular Recovery and a few others. Addicts/alcoholics tend to isolate. It is very helpful to socialize with people like themselves.

[@oolala53]

Something that takes advantage of a bias that the brain has by using chemicals that early humans had no way to cope with, is not a disease. And just because someone may need some help in counteracting the thoughts that tell them, they must do what their urges tell them to do also, doesn’t make a disease. In the end, don’t most people get over an addiction to alcohol by changing their thinking about it, and then making different decisions in the moment? Be honest.

[@larryc7209]

@@oolala53 the AMA classified it as a disease in the 1980's. It is better described as a disorder and that's the diagnostic term used in the past few years. Many alcoholics "get over" the addiction with help and ongoing support. That doesn't mean they are cured. The disorder is in remission and come back. It often does. As far as chemicals/bias I'm not sure what you're saying here. Alcoholism and addiction in general is definitely a disorder. The presence of the compulsion is evidence enough. Changing thinking is [part of what I help people do. The resentment and frustration that they can't drink anymore is almost universal. We try to get them to believe that they CAN drink (but probably shouldn't) instead of they can't. The focus changes from being a captive to alcohol to being free of alcohol. The focus is on freedom which is their most important possession. Many things are worked on to change thinking, but this is a big one

[@oolala53]

@@larryc7209 I definitely agree that it is a serious disorder. Compulsive overeating is also a disorder, but it is not a disease. I think, calling it a disease is a problem. You think it would actually help, that people would go oh, I have a disease, I really have to take very strong action against this. But it seems what happens more often is people say oh, I have a disease, therefore, it’s going to be unbearable to recover instead of, yes, this can be an extremely uncomfortable process, and part of it will be facing many beliefs about how your life could not be better without your drug of use. but I’m sure you saw in your practice that when people got very clear that their life was actually more painful using the drug, then it would be to face the pain of giving it up, they made changes. Many people made those changes before they ever got to someone like you, so they don’t seem to count. In any case, I am not saying that people don’t need some kind of help, and I hope you felt you were able to give it.

[@larryc7209]

@@oolala53 I've seen a few thousand people over the years. Many of them came to me after a relapse where they had been sober for a long time; Anywhere from a year up to 26 years. They all displayed the same thought pattern. They stopped paying attention to sobriety and after a while thought they learned their lesson. 90% relapsed after 2-3 months and almost all of those surpassed their past drinking behavior within another few months. I agree that the term disease is not accepted by many. This is because the word disease brings to mind lab tests, x rays and MRI's to diagnose the problem. Technically it is correct but misleading. Disorder is more fitting. Anything in the mental health spectrum had the word disorder, syndrome or condition attached to it as a descriptor. I tell all my patients that complacency keeps me employed

[@bandintheattic]

And would you agree with this assessment of antidepressant addiction? As always, to avoid the nastiness of withdrawal from this medication, you need to start taking it again. Sounds logical to me. Not to mention that it never did anything to alleviate depression in the first place. Antidepressant withdrawal is possible if you abruptly stop taking an antidepressant, particularly if you've been taking it longer than four to six weeks. Symptoms of antidepressant withdrawal are sometimes called antidepressant discontinuation syndrome and typically last for a few weeks. Certain antidepressants are more likely to cause withdrawal symptoms than others. Quitting an antidepressant suddenly may cause symptoms within a day or two, such as: Anxiety Insomnia or vivid dreams Headaches Dizziness Tiredness Irritability Flu-like symptoms, including achy muscles and chills Nausea Electric shock sensations Return of depression symptoms Having antidepressant withdrawal symptoms doesn't mean you're addicted to an antidepressant. Addiction represents harmful, long-term chemical changes in the brain. It's characterized by intense cravings, the inability to control your use of a substance and negative consequences from that substance use. Antidepressants don't cause these issues. To minimize the risk of antidepressant withdrawal, talk with your doctor before you stop taking an antidepressant. Your doctor may recommend that you gradually reduce the dose of your antidepressant for several weeks or more to allow your body to adapt to the absence of the medication. In some cases, your doctor may prescribe another antidepressant or another type of medication on a short-term basis to help ease symptoms as your body adjusts. If you're switching from one type of antidepressant to another, your doctor may have you start taking the new one before you completely stop taking the original medication. It's sometimes difficult to tell the difference between withdrawal symptoms and returning depression symptoms after you stop taking an antidepressant. Keep your doctor informed of your signs and symptoms. If your depression symptoms return, your doctor may recommend that you start taking an antidepressant again or that you get other treatment. With Daniel K. Hall-Flavin, M.D.

[@taheya]

Wonderful x

[@ScottH.]

Neuroscience has proven how addiction changes your brain. Tell an alcoholic or addict to just think happy thoughts and they'll laugh in your face. Of course you have to think thoughts before you drink or do drugs but those those thoughts are attached to strong desires and the circuitry of you brain actually changes when strong cravings occurs. Parts of your brain stop working properly and other parts of your brain take over where they normally wouldn't which make it very difficult to not give into the addiction. You're fighting against your own programming and more times than not you're programming wins so its much more complicated than saying its only thought. I agree that sadness, jealousy and other destructive emotions can be relieved at times by seeing those emotions for what they are but you also have to take into account that people that are always angry have becomes wired to be that way over time and to rewire yourself to be less angry and reactive is going to take time. Understanding your thoughts and how useless most of them are has to be a major factor if anyone wants to make meaningful changes in their lives though.

[@bandintheattic]

This guy was a freaking genius.

[@bandintheattic]

@ShannonFreng exactly.

[@bandintheattic]

@ShannonFreng i wasn't either but i just needed 1 word.

[@bandintheattic]

@ShannonFreng Actually, I saw it as an opportunity to experience life from a totally different perspective.

[@bandintheattic]

@ShannonFreng yes,sorry, people tend to treat you differently if they assume you're going to be a girl.

[@janice1293]

But what about black outs memory loss and kosikofs disease? And cirrhosis of the liver?

[@danoconnell4536]

can this help with bipolar

[@oolala53]

It seems to me it’s not enough to change the thought. You have to believe it.

[@liz8913]

All addicts of any kind have one thing in common, it’s not their fault, they are a victim of circumstances, other people, genetics, you name it! Until they take responsibility for themselves and stop blaming others they won’t have a lasting recovery.

[@jopem100]

I don’t agree with this an alcoholic will drink if they are happy or sad, if it’s raining or the sun is shining. Alcoholics drink to overcome a craving beyond their control … 🤔

[@ScottH.]

True. Its not like everytime an alcoholic drinks they're thinking about their parents getting divorced when they were little or being picked on at school. They drink because they have an uncontrollable compulsion to drink despite all the negative consequences. Yes, its used as an escape a lot of the times but its an escape from the intense cravings which only get worst the more they drink. They're stuck in a vicious cycle and no amount of happy thinking is going to stop an alcoholic that's hellbent on having a drink.

[@oolala53]

@@ScottH. He didn't say you have to have happy thoughts. He said positive thoughts. When I was coming off compulsive eating, there were times the urges felt terribly strong and I thought I was going to jump out of my skin. I didn't say, no, you don't feel that, you're fine, you're happy. I said to myself that if I gave in, I would make the habit stronger and the habit had already made my life miserable for 40 years. The only way to reverse it was to hold on even if it meant crying or whatever I had to do to divert myself. For serious alcoholics there might be some temporary medication to help. I also don't think he's implying you could not use support groups to increase motivation and reinforcement for living without the drug that so many other people accept. A lot more people die every year from the effects of overeating than from alcohol, yet there is so much push for it.

[@RobertBenoit-t4f]

They're weak...afraid of themselves