Syil X7 / 22MA : Aluminum roughing recipes and some comments on limit seeking

[@paulboon2285]

As a newer cnc machinist. This info helps a lot. It’s tough to ask questions on Practical Machinist (yes, after searching) without some self righteous dude making you feel stupid. Most threads on there end up brand bashing. Syil included. If you try to fact check assumptions like “made with Chinese components” etc, you’re called a fanboy. Most Syil owners have been helpful and willing to share ideas and info. As always, thank you for sharing Chuck. Looking forward to more X7 content!

[@cskovach]

I’ve experienced the same thing on the PM forums. If I had listened to their advice as someone interested enough in the trade to consider buying their first machine, I probably wouldn’t have done it because if you don’t have 6 figures worth of machines, 80 years of experience and a dozen or more customers beating down your doors for parts you’ll never make it according to them. But ya gotta start somewhere and they certainly did too. The key is in having enough courage to give yourself a chance to figure it out and to see what happens. The learning curve is brutal but once you understand the basic principles you will struggle a lot less (at least that’s what I’m telling myself!). If you develop a good process, you will make a lot less mistakes and over time become a lot more efficient. Glad you found the video useful. If there’s anything else in particular you’d like to see let me know

[@eloymarquez4783]

Welcome to the trade! Thank you for sharing.

[@cskovach]

Thank you sir. I've got a lot to learn but I'm having a good time with it

[@easttexasengineering3489]

25% spindle load is nothing brother. Your cut sounds spot on.

[@cskovach]

I’m really curious to try something like a KOR5 or a similar tool from helical. If I were to run it at 8k where I have a little more torque maybe I’d be able to access more of the available spindle power. It seems ridiculous to have 75% headroom on a cut like this, based on spindle loads anyway. Curious to see how much more I can get out of it.

[@dutchr4zor]

@@cskovach We typically run the KOR5 in our Haas VF2SS at 12k RPM, 1mm WOC, 80mm depth, 0.15mm FPT. It's about 100% spindle load. (the KOR is in a 32mm Hydroforce chuck)

[@cskovach]

@@dutchr4zor what diameter tool? 80mm is deep. Since the video the max I’ve worked up to on an actual part was with a 1/2” helical hvalc5 5 flute chip breaker. 8000 rpm at 1.25” deep, .075” stepover and 300 IPM. If I recall correctly it read around 35% load on my machine but it’s more torque limited than hp limited up top.

[@EZ_shop]

Interesting discussion.

[@empireages241]

Your carbide drill D16mm was at 70m/min and .25mm/tooth ? impressivewhat those X7 can do.

[@brendanmmann]

Hydraulic holders are not a bad option for holding roughing tools. I usually get Schunk but they are all pretty good.

[@Hanal503]

In general ...the holder is not a problem....but the tool must have trough coolant for accuracy and high speed.... ! Rough and rest rough....there is the problem.

[@durangotang1681]

Maybe a little much but still impressive. That was a .075 step over you said? G wizard really helped me when I was coming up with recipes in 17-4. Was really worried at first about breaking tools and haven’t broke one yet. Can’t wait to follow your journey with this machine. How do you like the control? I run centroid acorn on my mill. I’ve worked with Fanuc at my last job and hurcos controllers. I was looking at the specs between the Siemens and the syntec as far as the motors they offer but I couldn’t find if they were using different brands or what. If I remember the syntec model had higher kw ratings.

[@cskovach]

Yes sir .075". The control has been great. I've never run a machine before and was able to figure it out with a few hours of seat time. One major pro is that all the parameters are unlocked on it - so if you need to change a setting during repairs or maintenance it's all available to you. The only real hangup with it at this point is that it doesn't have factory supported probing screens but there is a gentleman working on that as a passion project. Maducerules on youtube. As far as I know, Siemens uses all Siemens servos and Syntec uses all Syntec stuff. Both offer 3 year warranties on the control, drives, and motors. Not sure if there's a power difference or not, they phased out the 808 Siemens control in favor of the 828.

[@durangotang1681]

@@cskovach yeah when I was looking at quotes the Siemens model was substantially more.

[@thedroolfool]

How about trying the same cut with a 1/4" endmill? That should give lower torque demand for the same power output.

[@cskovach]

It’s an interesting thought. Tool deflection would be pretty severe though since you’ve got probably less than half of the total tool cross section as the 1/2” em 2XD deep on a 1/4” cutter with .010” per tooth and 30% stepover at what would be borderline steel SFMs sounds like a great recipe for breaking tools, but maybe 3/8” would do it

[@monsieurb24]

i use hsm advisor , put a spec of motor in parameter , max spindle , descrition tool for tool length outpu length of cut dia material , good luck have fun :)

[@monsieurb24]

put spec for max cut feed

[@cskovach]

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll have to check it out

[@benjaminpauza159]

Power is Force Dx Dt. not just Force dt. The max torque of the motor is likely not at full power. Cool test though

[@cskovach]

That is true. But the simplification works because in this application, torque (work) is not a function of time. The motor runs at a constant rpm during the cut and has a defined torque available at that rpm. If you had spindle rpm variation following say a sinusoidal pattern throughout the duration of the cut like what some machines do to prevent resonances from taking hold, then yes - integrate away. Thanks for the comment. Been a little while since I’ve dusted off calculus-based physics!

[@benjaminpauza159]

@@cskovachsure. I guess I was thinking more from the perspective of MRR being the goal. Then you’re thinking more about power than just the torque required per chip. I’d be interested to see what happens with this setup as you increased the feed or used a larger cutter. It might be a worthy experiment to throw a cheap end mill at.

[@cskovach]

@@benjaminpauza159 right, MRR is the goal. Torque is only part of the conversation because it seemed like I was reaching a point where I didn’t have enough, given the loss in rpm. Definitely need to do a lot more testing. I’m getting pretty close to the maximum feed which is 393 IPM on this machine, so from there tooling selection will be my only real knob to turn to maximize MRR.

[@emilioking69]

Reducing step over in half and increasing the depth of cut to 1 in might be better.

[@cskovach]

You’re probably right. Got some tools and materials coming and will be doing some more work on it.

[@Hanal503]

That tool ..is for finishing...not for roughing.For roughing you must use ...end mill rough profile!...or or...insert cutter.

[@cskovach]

I'm aware of that now. This was an early video testing what I had. I have since added a helical 5 flute chip breaker tool in a shrink fit holder for roughing operations. Probably worth doing an update video.

[@Hanal503]

@@cskovach yesss...you dont inspire people like this,😅😅😅😅

[@cskovach]

​@@Hanal503 I made it known that I'm new to the trade. Plenty of "inspiring" content elsewhere from people who know way more than me. If you have a cut you'd like to see attempted on this machine let me know and I'll post a video.

[@MrUberJoker]

You need to check at what RPMs is your max torque available. You have the lowest amount of torque at 10k RPM range. Max torque range should be 1200-6000 rpms and then droping

[@cskovach]

Yes that was the whole point of the video