SYMPHONIC METAL band debate with Lindsay Schoolcraft | LOCK HORNS (live stream archive)

[@JurgenD]

I don't like symphonic metal, but i watched the whole show. I find the history of metal (all genres) very interesting.

[@gordanlazinica]

Never heard for a lot of bands, now I found a lot of favorites. :D

[@astraeareminiec669]

have you heard of Xandria,Gordan?

[@gordanlazinica]

Yes, but not much of their original work. I liked their cover of Sonata Arctica's "Don't Say a Word", that was pretty much awesome. By the way, big fan of Sonata, Delain, a bit od Temptation, Apocalyptica and Nightwish (can't say I'm die hard fan, but I like some of their stuff). Rest of these guys, don't know them too much. :)

[@umbaradum]

Name initial song

[@Grimeyhoob]

I do like a lot of Nightwish. And generally the vocalists in symphonic metal are ridiculously talented

[@021Sweden]

nightwish and therion next to each other ... finland Vs sweden ... the rivalry not only in hockey xD

[@ToastedCigar]

We need an episode of Finnish metal!

[@NoStLinuxGaming]

I just want to say thank you to Lindsay for putting Virgin Black to the board. They definitely deserve to be there. Hopefully this way more people will learn about that awesome band.

[@aperfect42]

I instantly went to listening to Nightwish's Oceanborn.

[@giantsfan8872]

nAmAri3 i hate symphonic metal but check out nightwish “10th man down”..

[@rafaell.atlanticforest603]

great choice

[@johnpolitis9060]

Another symphonic gothic metal band is Lacrimosa that did style of symphonic metal starting with their album Satura in 1993 or Inferno in 1995 which is before Therion did this with Theli in 1996. Another band in the same or similar style in sound is Saviour Machine with their album in 1993.

[@astraeareminiec669]

wouldn't leaves' eyes fit into symphonic goth metal also ,John?

[@rafaell.atlanticforest603]

Angels Cry - Angra 1993 can be a embryo of the genre?? its a good debate. Theli is amazing !!!

[@PUDNA]

Lacrimosa is gothic metal... I know lacrimosa Because at some point before they became metal, they were Darkwave... My favorite genre.

[@mikeycfc4638]

I think it would be a lot cooler if Sam wore a band shirt associated with the sub-genre when they actually do sub-genres.

[@SharleeAviles]

Or a hawaian shirt

[@snowindafunboots4369]

also a mefieval helmet👊👌

[@Wizerslapski]

After watching this live yesterday, I bought 4 Epica albums today \m/

[@VEGANzUmebies]

Great Want to pick up the new one.

[@bethcooper4094]

Thanks for this show. Have managed to find a whole genre of great metal that I knew existed, but no idea where to start looking. Now I have a tonne of new mental (to me at least) to listen to. wondering if you have heard of Semblant who I stumbled across though listening to the bands on this list? Luner Manifesto is an awesome album and well worth checking out.

[@Wagoo]

It's INCREDIBLE that Xandria got a brief mention then never put on the board.. they are the closest thing to early Tarja Nightwish out there right now. Speaking of which.. she has a solo band..

[@spellman007]

Septic Fleshgod Apocalyptica?

[@evacody1249]

Dude Apcoalyptica uses cello's.

[@spellman007]

Dude, it was a joke.

[@andrastereminiec6201]

LOL

[@astraeareminiec669]

delain, apocoalyptica is a symphonic metal cover band

[@SharleeAviles]

Septic Fleshgod Apocalyptherion

[@MK-oz2lf]

Hope they have Post Metal scheduled in the future.

[@BangerTV]

We do!

[@andrastereminiec6201]

Do you have both symphonic & Melodic power metal scheduled for sometime in the future?

[@Direksone]

Awesome!

[@SouthernCross_]

I've been flooding their youtube comments with this suggestion for 6 months at least.

[@ssejr01]

Nightwish and Kamelot, back in '03 were my gateway into the genre.

[@andrastereminiec9631]

Amored, you may like this sub gerne.... and Kamelot is the progenitors of it Mythological power emtal

[@MRmagic11111]

so glad to see Virgin black mentioned here totaly agree with Lindsay. best guest choice i have seen.

[@MRmagic11111]

also your chart is missing Bal-Sagoth

[@MRmagic11111]

apologies I now see bal-sagoth made and appearance in the symphonic black metal episode

[@astraeareminiec669]

MRmagic11111, you mean this Virgin Black? Virgin Black Country of origin: Australia Location: Adelaide, South Australia Status: On hold Formed in: 1995 Genre: Doom/Gothic/Symphonic Metal Lyrical themes: Christianity, Death, Sorrow, Misery

[@grahambilling2135]

Awesome

[@mvunit3]

Thanks guys for giving time for After Forever, Floor Jansen is an OUTSTANDING versatile vocalist and the addition of keyboardist "Joost van den Broek" in their later years took them over the edge with his compositions for orchestra. Bravo! 2 I would have added was; Leaves Eyes and Adagio, would love to hear who Lindsay wanted to add at the end :).

[@astraeareminiec669]

isn't adagio a power metal band?

[@JAG214]

After Forever is a Symphonic Metal band that has strong Progressive Metal influences

[@andrastereminiec9631]

After Forever Country of origin: Netherlands Location: Reuver, Limburg Status: Split-up Formed in: 1995 Genre: Symphonic Power/Gothic Metal Lyrical themes: Relationships, Social issues, Fundamentalism

[@andrastereminiec9631]

After forever is one band that I'd love to see reunite!

[@SharleeAviles]

We don't care

[@erickdraws9563]

@@SharleeAviles speak for yourself

[@horrormaster1980]

After rewatching this episode and hearing some of this bands for the first time, one band that I think should of been added was X Japan you all might hate me for saying X Japan but I think with Yoshiki's musical background influencing the band to almost the ominous feeling especially after listening to their 30 minute masterpiece Art of Life

[@emmanuelskywalkers9272]

I agreed, Lindsay. Nightwish should be on board. Nightwish is very Importing.

[@nickygoods131]

i missed the initial broadcast but i must throw mister Tobias Sammet's AVANTASIAs top hat into the ring. very influential symphonic metal with celtic leans. you can get lost in their catalog let alone the picture all the albums paint as a whole. taking risks, top notch story telling and no apology stylistic approaches AVANTASIA is incredible. lengthy discography but my personal favorite is SCARECROW

[@nickygoods131]

+Marcelo Bassalo I agree with you for sure. I guess I just always kinda rooted them in symphonic hard rock heavy metal too, probably due in part to the dramatics of their approach. \m/\m/

[@andrastereminiec6201]

I missed the broadcast also,nicky nIghtwish is more of a symphonic power metal band what say you?

[@andrastereminiec6201]

what do you think of Trans Siberian Orchestra? Symphonic metal ,or not...

[@Deadsilentjoe]

I would say so..

[@andrastereminiec9631]

nicky, wouldn't Avantasia be more in the symphonic power metal genre

[@andrastereminiec6201]

Could there be a combined subgenre? I think that neo classical& symphonic metal should be combined, because you can't have one with out the other..

[@plantifulalexandra]

How can you not know Haggard? oO

[@dougmphilly]

how did haggard ever afford itself

[@narnia139]

@@dougmphilly 😂🤣 good point...I guess by managing to produce really GREAT music 😁 hope they keep being able to afford themselves!

[@134josu]

Haggard is a German band; however, due to their great success in latin-america, it seems they've moved to Mexico, I've seen them twice in the early 2000's, they played with orchestra and choirs. In addition I'd suggest Lindsay is gorgeous!

[@juliereminiec4937]

Xandria is a very good Symphonic Metal band... Operatic lead vocals / Classical inspired background music & Metal What a great combination

[@Ganters]

Very good episode! However, in the Power Metal Lock Horns, they moved Nightwish, Rhapsody of Fire and Sonata Arctica from Power Metal to Symphonic Metal. Now Sonata Arctica is not even considered anywhere! They could have at least put them back on power metal! This show needs someone who checks consistency...

[@juliereminiec4937]

wouldn't Nightwish be a combination of Symphonic & Power Metal?

[@Ganters]

@@juliereminiec4937 Yes, I'm not arguing what genre the bands belong to, just that Banger should have consistency between episodes what band belongs where.

[@Obssy]

How about an episode featuring metal bands using non-conventional instruments as main instruments? Like Resolution 15 who uses electric violins instead of guitars? Just an idea, i'm not sure if there really are enough bands like this out there to warrant a whole episode, but it's definitely a subject worth mentioning.

[@TabithaReminiec3399]

How about a segment of Lock Horns on Symphonic Power Metal ? Nightwish may be a better fit on this type of chart...their keyboardist Tuomas said it best : "We are a power metal band." but they also have symphonic elements in their sound. Both Nightwish & Xandria could be the two bands that provide a bridge between the two subgenres !

[@molexroots]

Thank the gods Lindsey mentioned Virgin Black. I immediately check out the first album I came across on KZbin "Sombre Romantic". Oh man. I'm hooked. Any album recommendations for Virgin Black? What should I avoid?

[@PrimateNine]

This is my favorite show on KZbin. Period.

[@andrastereminiec9631]

Sam, could there be a symphonic power metal branch added to the metal family tree?

[@TonyHookedonVanlife]

First symphonic metal I ever heard was "Wormwood" by Tristania and it absolutely blew my fucking mind!!

[@LilRocker2005]

What about Lacuna Coil???

[@metalmatt1396]

+Banger are you guys going to still do the episode on death/doom metal?

[@pipiepoopie]

Whatever happened to Tristania in this list.

[@TheGmorq]

I can agree with this list! Nicely done. I just feel like I have to write these stuff :D Intrestingly Waltari released in 1996 crossover spectacle: Yeah! Yeah! Die! Die! Death metal symphony in deep C. They played live with orchestra and alto opera singer (+ Tomi Koivusaari from Amorphis). The show got mainstream medias attention in Finland. Album also has some other random genres in it but Waltari was known for that craziness. However I understand that Waltari isn't on this list, but their album should be recommended for one of the milestones of symphonic metal. And yes, Emperor made album In the Nightside Eclipse in 1994 which clearly has symphonic influences. I'm pretty sure that they have also opened boundaries for bands in other sub genres too.

[@nestorgonzalez]

amazing episode!!! LOTS of fun moments, I want to watch it again ! :D

[@luisreynamboarcos2958]

why did't you talk more about Epica? Now adays, they are the most important band in the scene.

[@darkslayer366]

I'm late to this and this isn't related to Symphonic, but would you do an episode discussing the Visual Kei genre. It came up in Glam, but i think it deserves a branch. Drawing from glam, goth, industrial, and even death metal, it is a very interesting genre. The case could be made that Visual Kei is more of a fashion statement than a musical genre, but I still think it should be mentioned. Originating in Japan, but not limited to it, VKei is a sub-genre that I think is underappreciated in the West. As for the Legend, it could only be X Japan. Their sound and look pushed the boundaries of heavy metal in Japan.

[@MrMSelwyn]

I'm so mad that I fell asleep! This whole episode devolved into the argument I made on the symphonic black metal episode, that maybe we need to split symphonic and symphonic extreme to avoid a million symphonic sub-sub-genres with two bands each.

[@katrinareminiec6838]

Kamelot is a Symphonic Power Metal band. They belong on both branches.

[@giantsfan8872]

Katrina Reminiec i hate symphonic metal but i do like kamelot if that makes any sense....i think theyre more power metal...thats kinda like saying edguy is symphonic because of “theater of salvation”

[@andrastereminiec9631]

hey,Lindsay, i have a question for you.. Would a operatic half range/ocative be ok to use in symphonic metal?

[@JAG214]

Without Symphonic Metal there would be no Symphonic Black Metal, Symphonic Gothic Metal or Symphonic Power Metal

[@jerkorulez]

I think it should be the other way Death metal, black metal and power metal bands introduced classical music to metal which open the path to symphonic metal

[@JAG214]

You could say that but for this argument the topic start with Symphonic Metal which lead to the other Symphonic subgenre in Metal

[@brucenatelee]

What about epic doom metal, hence Candlemass' "Epicus Doomicus Metallicus?"

[@zerazara]

If you are gonna add Fleshgod Apocalypse, you might as well add Dimmu Borgir.

[@mastermorphis]

Virgin Black is a great recommendation. Just bought 2 of their albums!!! Powerful stuff....Thanks Lindsay....

[@marcosagrero2866]

Is that Daniel interviewing Alexi Laiho?

[@husq48]

I think Virgin Black fits more in the goth scene, along with Saviour Machine, both great bands!

[@Marinlucho]

From Colombia. I agreed with you! Nightwish is from my generation and they have amezing lyrics

[@christopherkelly8925]

Celtic Frosts Into the Pandemonium started it. Then Paradise Lost Gothic. Then Therion. Then Emperor in the Nightside Eclipse. Then came the female fronted Theatre of Tragedy,Tristania,Nigthwish,After Forever, Epica, and Sirenia and Within Temptation

[@astraeareminiec669]

I have a question for lindsay schoolcraft. If Leaves' eyes is a symphonic metal band, why do they still have the beauty& the beast vocals from Gothic metal? COuldn't leaves' eyes be a symphonic gothic metal band?

[@Doctor_Rockter]

Glad the technical thrash pioneers Believer got at least one bare mention. I'm a fan of everything *but* Believer's full-orchestra-and-opera-singer symphonic songs, but they should be acknowledged as one of the very first (possibly actually the first) to do this full on: specifically, it was the song 'Dies Irae' on the 1990 album Sanity Obscure and the 'Trilogy of Knowledge' tracks on the 1993 album Dimensions. Again, I'm not a huge fan of those particular songs (or symphonic metal generally - sorry) but most of Believer's fans and various critics consider them to be watersheds and highlights.

[@corpusc]

Sins of Thy Beloved should be on here

[@rupertwarjri9533]

There should have been estatic fear I think but i dont know plz let me know if it should have been there in the chart or not somebody plz

[@daultonwurst77]

The left out some great bands like leaves eyes and after forever

[@astraeareminiec669]

I have a question for Llndsay Schoolcraft; Is there a big difference between symphonic metal & symphonic power metal?

[@holveragtz]

took you long enough to add rhapsody but at least you got it! but what about avantasia and some other bands that you took out of power metal cause they were "too symphonic"

[@katrinareminiec6838]

Sam , how about doing a segment on Symphonic Power Metal?

[@363Magi]

was that Theater of Tragedy at the start? What song and band was that?

[@DrummerJez86]

we need one on folk metal ... korpiklaani, ensiferum, alestorm , eluveitie, finntroll ... (although where is the line between folk, viking, pirate sub sub sub sub x10 genres ) but just fun drinking metal that sounds kinda like polka basically

[@darkslayer366]

They did one already.

[@DrummerJez86]

hmmm .. can't find it ... must search more

[@matthewlawlis2421]

Should Power Wolf be on the list. They aren't traditionally symphonic but the vocals as well as their organ/keyboard are very based around liturgical choir music.

[@astraeareminiec669]

Septicflesh Country of origin: Greece Location: Athens, Attica Status: Active Formed in: 1990 Genre: Atmospheric/Symphonic Death Metal Lyrical themes: Fantasy, Mythology, Occultism, H.P. Lovecraft Current label: Season of Mist Years active: 1990-2003 (as Septic Flesh), 2007-present

[@cheloydp9838]

I love watching this. in someways it helps me explore more bands under symphonic metal :D

[@robertouttamyndx4400]

Virgin Black FINALLY !!! Even for a Christian Band as well !!

[@robertouttamyndx4400]

Lindsay yes they are Christian. They and Saviour Machine did many Christian Goth and Metal shows in the 1990's.

[@SharleeAviles]

Music and religion are 2 different things, you can be catholic or muslim and do some great music.

[@astraeareminiec669]

why isn't Xandria on this chart.? I love the fact that they use different types of music on their records as background ..their lyrical themes are superb & their lead singer has a beautiful voice..

[@daultonwurst77]

When I listened to virgin black I could've sworn there albums were recorded live. I think all studio albums should be recorded live.

[@ZX9RDan]

I... really like...what... you are...doing. Good episode...and nice to... see Lindsay appear...on...the show!. A bit of sarcasm here, but, really, good work. I do get a bit annoyed by the excess of pauses when you speak to the camera, but thankfully, you don't do that when speaking to guests, and it sounds so much better. Not wanting to be a ass. It's meant as constructive criticism. Still a fan!

[@sebastianh9534]

Gave this video a like when virgin black was mentioned. Never thought of them as symphonic, but of course they are!

[@Marinlucho]

Haggard is a insane one but Im not sure for this branch

[@SharleeAviles]

They belong, they are not so metal but definitely has some metal on their songs.

[@PierrickTranouez]

Dear Banger, Great show, thanks. I find the interlacing artefacts from the close-up camera quite distracting and messy. Could you please deinterlace your video before uploading it or even better shoot it progressive? It would be much appreciated.

[@esotericwarpedagogics3112]

Where's Xandria?

[@andrastereminiec9631]

Xandria is a symphonic power metal band

[@SharleeAviles]

Germany

[@karimkhatib5640]

In my opinion Savatage should have been on that list. They are founders of symphonic/ opera metal. Cheers from Beirut Lebanon

[@MajorTom696]

this list seems about richt. (not fully) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_symphonic_metal_bands

[@chestbuster1987]

Do you have a bird or something flying around the studio hitting the mic!? Tell the sound guy to stop slapping that thing..

[@TabithaReminiec3399]

Kamelot is a combination of symphonic metal & power metal.

[@victorfranco4506]

And some prog metal vibes

[@Slipknotyk06]

I don't think these ladies were even out yet at the time of this video, but Exit Eden is an excellent new symphonic metal band.

[@carlosjtorotorres5451]

That’s exactly right; only that Exit Eden is actually an international Symphonic Metal VOCAL QUARTET

[@dougmphilly]

the first band that turned me onto this was 'therion' but 'nightwish' brought it to a higher level.

[@ieatstheinternet]

Not even a mention for Van Canto? They are like a gate way drug to it.

[@SharleeAviles]

van canto plays suck metal

[@kothrising4762]

Fleshgod Apocalypse is upthere but no Dark Lunacy? Devoid was released back in 2000 by Metal Blade... also No Tristania? my wife is upset about it

[@ManyMiniMinnas]

Hehe... Where would one put Sigh, out of curiosity?

[@TabithaReminiec3399]

there's a sub genre of symphonic metal,which needs to be spoken of on lock horns... Symphonic power metal... Nightwish, Blind Guardian& Yngwie Malmsteen obviously are the first three shoots on this branch.. Nightwish for their introduction of the soprano voice to metal Blind Guardian ( for their use of classical sounds in the background on their lps) Yngwie Malmsteen for his incorperation of fugus, symphonic & appregios into power metal... playing classical pieces on the electric guitar isn't easy

[@dommguard]

Why is the audio so bad? Spoils my joy... NVM, seems it got fixed after some time.

[@robertouttamyndx4400]

My Legend is a Tie between 3rd And The Immortal and Theater Of Tragedy !!!

[@katrinareminiec6838]

How about a sumphonic power metal branch , Sam? ( to imitate James Brow ) PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE !

[@SharleeAviles]

It's symphonic already, power, black, death, no matter what, symphonic is the point

[@eliallday532]

too many bands that are missing in this sub genre. bands like midnattsol, fairyland, avantasia, stratovarius, xandria, elvenking, pathfinder, ayeron, savatage, Virgin Steele, symphony x, Luca turilli solo projects, kaledon, holy knight, dark moor, leaves' eyes any many more. symphonic metal needs a sub sub genre.

[@christophercarter6962]

Eli covarrubias symphonic black metal, symphonic death metal.... the list goes on dude

[@mikeycfc4638]

Symphonic Black metal is a great example.

[@james12cool]

Thanks for the names I well check them out

[@MajorTom696]

agreed, Ayreon is progg imo. also missing are Rage, Ancient bards, Lunatica, Visions of atlantis.

[@andrastereminiec6201]

SAvatage& virgin stele are power metal bands

[@plantifulalexandra]

Why does everyone love Xandria so much? Being German that's one of the bands I started with, today I think they kinda suck, they're so soft and chliché. Except for the first album, that one's great. :)

[@diego17th]

Septic Flesh is the greatest. Period!!!

[@Wagoo]

Hey guys, turn off interlaced video on your cameras if you can!.. this works well for CRTs but basically looks horrible on any modern display. It's the jaggedy lines on sideways motion ..

[@miquelparis9208]

I was the one from Barcelona!

[@astraeareminiec669]

Why isn't within Temptation on this chart..? their early lps were the progenitor for the genre

[@dougmphilly]

'mother earth / ice queen' fantastic stuff

[@the6ig6adwolf]

I sure hope they include Metallica S&M

[@SharleeAviles]

No

[@hatchrisghost]

When is the new LIVE stream??

[@MATCHLESS789]

I absolutely love Nightwish (except for Angels Fall First, Human Nature and half of Endless Forms Most Beautiful albums) but weirdly can't get into any other symphonic metal band. I don't know what is it - whether it's composition or production or something - but absolutely majority of it sounds like, uhm.. air, empty calories, all garnish and no meat or potatoes. I have a theory (which I don't know whether it's correct) that the reason why Nightwish doesn't have that issue is because they use an actual orchestra so they're restricted by realities & practicalities whereas most symphonic metal bands don't have the budget for an actual orchestra and they use virtual instruments, which means there's no restrictions when it comes to both composition and sound. It seems like there's simply too much of the symphonic part because whatever layer you come up with you can just throw on top, disregarding the fact that it would require 200 people orchestra and is simply not realistic.

[@imahimfan]

Ohhh thanks for introducing me to Haggard!!

[@astraeareminiec669]

Both Kamelot & nightwish can fit on to two branches of the metal tree.. symphonic metal & power metal

[@astraeareminiec669]

KAmelot is a symphonic power metal band..like Nightwish

[@evacody1249]

In the case of Delain they also don't have the time out right to do that.

[@noumene301]

Sam go listen "haggard in a pale moon's shadow" worth knowing it... search live to see the full orchestra playing

[@andrastereminiec6201]

I suggested that both sam& Lindsay school,craft should listen to Nightwishs' lps.. As they aren't a symphonic metal band at all

[@selfstudier9940]

Er, dey is.

[@astraeareminiec669]

Self,Nightwish Country of origin: Finland Location: Kitee Status: Active Formed in: 1996 Genre: Symphonic Power Metal Lyrical themes: Love, Nature, Astrology, Religion, Fantasy, Beauty Current label: Nuclear Blast Years active: 1996-present

[@MrTR909]

Septicflesh is from Greece

[@evacody1249]

I would say to Lindsay that costs a lot of money. If Delain and Kamelot had the money they would do what Nightwish are doing.

[@Marinlucho]

what about Dimmu Borger?

[@Chuloloc]

Awesome. Thank you, Sam. Hail Banger TV.

[@abhisheknambiar3655]

sam i think you should start an instagram account as it will help more peple come to know about this amazing channel

[@BangerTV]

Thanks! Find us at instagram.com/bangerfilms

[@astraeareminiec669]

Why couldn't I find Schoolcraft when I went to Metal-archives.com?

[@SharleeAviles]

Cradle of filth, search there