Tabletop CP: BA vs CoC Comparison Part 1- Bolt Action

[@kasparolesen1515]

Remember the Soviet national rule of them being able to reroll failed Morale Tests. Will possibly make a huge difference.

[@simonvesterlundguldberg6418]

I like these battles were the armies isn't composed of too many points, it makes the games a lot more micro, and I personally think that it is a good way to show of a smaller skirmish

[@ModellingforAdvantage]

interesting project, watching with interest.

[@Kevin.Mitchell]

I'm a fan of both games, it's great to have different games to play with my forces that scratch different itches so to speak. Looking forward to seeing the CoC version of this battle - will your hot dice streak continue? Well done both of you for making this fun to watch.

[@guylawrance2216]

Can’t believe how every aspect of everything you do has improved so much since you started out. Well Done. You have come a long way since the huge chocolate bar stone walls ! The way you are going you may even beat Andre fairly one day ! 😁 Best Wishes From London 👍

[@tabletopcp]

Guy Lawrance thanks guys! Oh and I beat andre all the time! 😂

[@guylawrance2216]

Tabletop CP - Seriously though what an improvement your painting, posing, vehicles, bases and scenery now is spot on 👍 Your camerawork, production and narrative have got so professional too !

[@tabletopcp]

Guy Lawrance thanks guy! I appreciate it 🍻

[@guylawrance2216]

Tabletop CP And I appreciate what you do too 🙏

[@stephenpodeschi6052]

Those prayers to the dice gods you put in last week are still paying off...lol It looked like a Soviet repulse until those kills kept coming in for Fritz. I did like the classic Travis 5 hits with the MG..( smug quote) then 5 ones.... ( "Oh Crap" quote..) .....Still Andre there's time for a Soviet counter in the Chain of command encounter to come , well done to you both....cheers

[@WargamingWorld]

Wow! What rolling! Look forward to watch CoC you really can’t roll again like that! Great report as always

[@StuartMcDermid]

One of these games is Warhammer WWII. The other is a reasonable simulation of certain aspects of WWII that although swingy due to some of the dice rolling choices rewards good tactics and gets around the problem of concealment elegantly. I’d rather see games that occupy the same space contrasted.

[@HeadHunterSix]

Funny, I always thought that the toxic, elitist attitude was something I left behind when I quit 40k. Didn't find that in BA, I guess I know where it went.

[@redcorsair14]

At 18:00 or so, you forgot that damaging an infantry unit in a building gives a +1 to the target number needed. Thus regulars needed a 5 to wound them not a 4.

[@jvcpaints]

It was the addition of the medic that tipped the scales in favor of the Germans obviously. lol. Travis was definitely throwing rocks on the kill rolls. Interested to see how this goes in CoC.

[@tabletopcp]

JvC Paints lol I think you may be right!

[@vonSchwartzwolfe]

Fun game to watch. Well done.

[@THE-UFO-MAN]

were did you get the different colour bases from, they look cool, for captains, NCOs, ect. let me know if you can.

[@tabletopcp]

Got ‘em off eBay years ago. They were part of a board game. Haven’t seen them in a while. Check the 3d print market

[@get_the_lead_out]

The grassy areas look really cool. How did you make them?

[@tabletopcp]

Jim Johnson I didn’t make them. My friend Cole did. It’s teddy bear fur painted various shades of brown and green.

[@get_the_lead_out]

Awesome! Time to go hit the yard sales for cheap teddy bears so I can carve them up [evil sociopathic laugh]😈

[@Flowerz__]

Any recommendation on which is better or I should say more fun? Or which is more realistic? I really want to get into these games but I’m very torn. I love the warlord games presentation but I don’t really like/understand why they have you pull random stuff out of that bag. I do not like that.

[@tabletopcp]

Chain of command is more realistic. Both are fun. The order dice mechanic for bolt action is a lot of fun. I was out off by it for a couple of years before I decided to give it a try.

[@Flowerz__]

@@tabletopcp thanks for the reply! I’m gonna watch these comparison videos you did and maybe make a decision. Can you use the warlord games miniatures for chain of command? They seem to have great figures.

[@tabletopcp]

@@Flowerz__ yeah of course. That’s the beauty of historical games. You can use the same minis for all of them.

[@tabletopgeneralsde310]

Cool idea and so true, nobody will go from CoC to BA and will say that is the better game.

[@tabletopcp]

Tabletop Generals not in my experience. But they doesn’t mean a lot of people won’t play both.

[@tabletopgeneralsde310]

@@tabletopcp, playing both is cool. Both have it strong points, cheers mate.

[@pbeccas]

I did.

[@brettlynam5048]

I play both and I enjoy both. They are definitely geared for a different experience however. CoC is more realistic and gritty whereas BA is more “arcadey”. I think I enjoy CoC more, but sometimes I like playing a game of BA since it offers more chances of lucky rolls, odd pairings of forces and choices of units etc. Very interested in how the CoC version of this goes.

[@macca-of1yc]

I went from BA to CoC but still play both, BA in our community is played more often and is easier to get into, i prefer Chain personaly as its balanced

[@nheather]

Great game and explanation. Looking forward to seeing the CoC version. Where did you get those coloured rings that go on the bases to indicate leaders?

[@tabletopcp]

Nigel Heather the CoC version is over on the Paint All The Minis KZbin channel right now! The rings are part of an Conan the barbarian board game at one point. Got them off eBay.

[@Nobleshield]

I played the old version of BA and it was a good game, but it's like.. I already play 40k. The entire reason I wanted to get into historical gaming was to *not* be playing games designed like 40k around list building and competitive tournaments with people who don't care about historical accuracy; I get you really can't get total accuracy but listening to someone talk about how they are going to field 30 armored cars because it's the most cost-effective unit in the book is like... that's not how you should approach a historical game and those games shouldn't be designed around tournament play. It's a reason why even though I play FoW and it's a fun game, it doesn't sit well with me. BA is the same way although I would absolutely play it and probably enjoy it. For the sort of "beer and pretzel" game that you just throw together a list and go down to the club/game store, there's already 40k.

[@tabletopcp]

Nobleshield sounds like Chain of Command May be more your style then.

[@Nobleshield]

I'm actually very interested in CoC, I think one guy in my local group has said he's played it before so hopefully when all of this stuff blows over and we can go back to normal CoC will be on the menu to try.

[@corvusboreus2072]

@@Nobleshield I thoroughly recommend Chain of Command if you want a ruleset that gives a reasonable approximation of attempting to employ realistic tactics within the frictions of combat. It allows synchronised cooperation between units but restricts the ability to use every tool in the belt at once, and factors in things like the reluctance of soldiers to act with determined aggression in the face of withering enemy fire. The army lists are centred upon period infantry manuals, meaning that the basis of any force is a historically correct platoon (in variant forms). As a bonus, the groundscale is clearly defined (12 inches = 40 yards), meaning that horizontal to vertical scale distortion can be minimalised (15mm figures are a perfect match) , and that people who are inexperienced with wargaming but educated in realities like the relative ranges of various firearms can fairly easily get an instinctual grasp of what to expect from each unit or element The campaign building supplement ('at the sharp end') adds a whole extra dimension to campaign play (one of my favourite aspects) as the consequences of previous battles (things like accumulation of casualties and achievement of objectives) affect not only available resources but the morale/opinion of both the troops on the ground and the brass above. Overall, as someone who has had basic training in infantry tactics, chain of command is about as close an approximation as any wargame rules set that I have encountered.

[@paulspaintshed3511]

Interesting idea but the two games aren't really comparable. One is designed with competitive games very much in focus while the other is designed for a more friendly game where reality of tactics is at the forefront. Although both designed at the same level they are vastly different imho.

[@jamesharms748]

Agreed. They are designed for different styles of play. Someone's dice are going to be looking to get even 🙃

[@BootsontheTable]

Nice to see how this works but I am confused why the Russians lose their special extra unit, but the Germans keep their extra MG dice and leader rules...... I see this sort of thing in some small competitions and it seems inconsistent.

[@BootsontheTable]

@@DentedHelmet578 i have seen a number of small scale competitions where the same things happens, free units are not allowed, but the Germans still get their characteristics. As a mainly German player I dont mind, but it seems a little tough on the others!

[@tabletopcp]

Boots on the Table with Dom in CoC the german MG does fire more shots than the russian MG and at this point in the war the German platoon in CoC also has better commanders than the Soviets so it worked out fine that way. To give the Soviets the free squad they would either need to have one inexperienced squad replace a regular or have five squads which would throw off the platoon composition.

[@BootsontheTable]

@@tabletopcp yeah I get that, but in BA its a game balance thing. But hey your scenario - which was very good btw!

[@billchristo7894]

This is great. Thanks. What did you use to make those road pieces? You guys have great terrain.

[@tabletopcp]

Bill Christo cut some sheets of wood to size, roughed up the top with a wire wheel then textured and painted.

[@billchristo7894]

Tabletop CP balsa wood? Any warping? They look perfect for BA or CoC. Or any 28mm game

[@tabletopcp]

@@billchristo7894 its a hard board, sort of like a very hard plywood. They can warp for sure.

[@HeadHunterSix]

I think every time someone says CoC is more "realistic" than BA, they should be forced to write 500 times: "When you _hit_ a target in Chain of Command, there's at least a 33% chance that the hit is a Miss." Where I come from, those words are opposites and there's nothing realistic about the concept. It can still be an enjoyable game, and it's OK to like both, but you can't build any truly realistic model of combat on that principle.

[@toyvendor6073]

awesome board and report. What company are those buildings from?

[@tabletopcp]

Toyvendor these are from 4ground. Their eastern front range.

[@karln524]

A good game but the Germans had a medic and you forgot to have him try to save men each time you took a loss.

[@samb2052]

Looks like the Russians missed the inexperienced squad. If I remember right, when they’re deployed in a building, they’re as good as veterans.

[@GrimDan1789]

argh, buildings are hard cover and -1 to wound.