Tactical Arms - The M4 (Part 1 of 2)

Larry Vickers, co-host of Tactical Arms TV Show on The M4 Carbine (Part 1 of 2).
- • Tactical Arms - The M4... (Part 2 of 2)

[@MrZacfisher]

haha i love how me made sure to tell us its a vickers blue force sling... nice

[@CircleWilliams]

I think this was a vital lesson that if you drop an AR, treat it like already had a misfeed or whatever failure and it'll still work. The AR is no longer that finicky baby that most people think it is.

[@YellowTrashMan]

Can't we all agree they both have great positives in my opinion they are barely comparable.

[@HighSpeedPFC]

Yeah I worked along side alot of NATO and Coalition forces. Those German military types were hella cool. They cleaned their rifle as much as I cleaned mine. Doesn't matter what rifle you're using in a professional military, weapon PMC and cleaning is a must. If you know your fire arms then you would know that the AK also has a dust cover. The G36 bolt group is self enclosed within the chamber. I even saw Georgian conscripts cleaning their AK.

[@AboveMediocrity2010]

I love the full length, no frills, AR15 with A2 sight. With a simple 2 point sling, it carries light for all day humping. Accuracy is renown, and the 55 grain round is effective from the 22 inch barrel.

[@audreymota8423]

AboveMediocrity2010 20 not 22

[@Gaspard129]

There was a test a while back that a guy did showing that his Colt LE6920 would shoot in excess of 1500 rounds without cleaning. All he did was lube the BCG every 200 or so rounds. After the gun finally starting experiencing stoppages, he broke the gun open, took 5 minutes to wipe down the inside of the receiver, lubed it, and then preceded to fire another 300 rounds. They are no where as intolerant of carbon buildup then people say they are.

[@Gaspard129]

Just to be clear, taping the muzzle usually isn't done to make the gun reliable. Its done to keep the bore clear of obstructions. If there is a bore obstruction, and you pull the trigger, the gun will fire, but the barrel will likely burst. This isn't a problem unique to the M4. Bore obstructions can be a serious issue for any gun. That said, yes the M4 requires more maintaince than than some systems. For US soldiers, regular cleaning and lubbing is a non-issue.

[@Gaspard129]

I don't think a lot of you guys understand the tape on the muzzle thing, so let me explain. They tape the muzzle during torture tests to prevent bore obstructions. This is not a problem unique to the M4. Bore obstructions in ANY firearm (even the HK 416 and AK47/AKM/AK74) will be bad news (like burst-barrel bad news). It is just general good practice from a safety standpoint when doing torture tests.

[@Mortablunt]

Facts I've used (Part 4) 27. The AK5 is a modified FNC. 28. The AK5, FNC, and AK-74 are meant for combat ranges of 400M and in, 29. 5.45x39 came about due to Cold War competitiveness on part of generals. 30. AK Side rails are older than Picatinny and even Weaver rails. 31. The AK12 is the first Russian AK developed after proliferation of Picatinny rails. 32. Weapon lights are easier to use than flashlights or headlamps. 33. Optics improve aiming speed and precision. 34. Neither are essential.

[@Mortablunt]

AK Ergonomics: index finger on switch, ring finger on trigger- perfect. Modularity: Optic+bayonet+launcher. What more do you want? Accuracy: USSR required 300M body hits with AK iron sights. Same as US Army M4. Furniture: It won't strangle the cat if that's what you're asking. Capability: The base design has been fundamentally unchanged since 1959. 5.45 was pushed for by generals- not soldiers. AN-94 ain't going anywhere. Most advances assault rifle today. AK-12 is still a big maybe. Developing.

[@geckcgt7216]

5.9 lbs is a bit of an underestimate for the M4 [even without a magazine]. I recently was punching the numbers, and weighing things for a lightweight build and got the following: Plain Jane flat-top M4s (with and M4 profile barrel, the traditional M4 furniture, and no accessories) tip the scale at about 6.3-6.4 lbs empty, and that is without a sight. With a detachable carry handle, it goes to ~6.8. Fully loaded using a PMAG with a detachable carry handle, it's ~8lbs.

[@tonynie1039]

Piston guns aren't used for their reliability, but for their better performance with suppressors. Almost all 416's in use are suppressed 10.5 inch SBRs. While the majority of 14.5 "all purpose" carbines being fielded are still M4's. A while ago the MK16, which was a 14.5 piston carbine to replace the M4, was dropped by SOCOM due to it having "not enough of a performance advantage". Even the SAS, who has access to any European weaponry(G36, 416), choose the C8, an M4 clone made by Colt Canada.

[@Musashiprodigy]

Yes I do. If something clogs the barrel it will cause it to explode. It doesn't matter what weapon it is. Regardless of what weapon it is, if something goes down the barrel it will be so small that it will not effect function. Look at Daniel defenses test they don't tape the barrel.

[@kobuksonhwacha]

@m1garand1943 Option 1: Unload and disassemble your weapon. Take a bore brush and snake it down your barrel, tapping out the obstruction. Option 2: Sling your primary and transition to your sidearm, which is what you really should be doing if your primary goes click for any reason and the enemy is within 50 yards. Option 3, and the most likely scenario: You're pulling the trigger so fast that you send a fresh round right into that obstruction, and the gun explodes in your hands.

[@Mortablunt]

Have you heard of a country called "Finland"? It's a first world country with very good SF that uses AK-type rifles (almost all their arsenal is Russian and they actually had a choice). Sweden uses AK-based guns in SF. Bulgaria (NATO & EU) uses AK in SF. Poland uses AK in SF. Hungary uses AK in SF. Greek paratroopers recently adopted AK-74. Berkut uses AK-74. These are all modern European nations.

[@Mortablunt]

Facts I've used (part 1) 1, The AK's "shepherd's crook" is not a stress-bearing part. 2. The AN-94 isn't a serious contender for a standard issue assault rifle. 3. The AK-12 is still in development and it is unknown as to how it will be issued. 4. The AK has many more derivatives than the AR. 5. Eugene Stoner spent decades working on the Stoner 63, but never finished it. 6. Troops still report problems with their M4's & M16's. 7. Piston AR's have AK influence. 8. ACR has AK influence.

[@Musashiprodigy]

actually the AK-74 with 16 inch barrel produces 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 meters. An M4 with it's 14.25 inch barrel will produce 1 inch groups at 100 meters. Because the AK-74s cartridge is a bit smaller in diameter, you can't use as heavy bullets in a 545, so no that it makes a difference the 556 will "do more damage"

[@lgdurocher]

Piston guns are heavier, recoil a little harder, and simply transfer heat and carbon build up just a foot or so farther up the weapon. It may not fowl in the action but it foils in the piston and the piston still requires semi-regular maintenance. More moving parts means more friction and those parts will need replacement where a DI gas tube just gets broken in like a good ole pair of boots. A general rule in life is that when there is less parts, they're are less things that can go wrong.

[@Gaspard129]

Anyone who truely knows their weapon, and is armed with an m16/m4/ar15 will know how important keeping the dust cover closed when you are not fighting. That being said, yes, I agree that Larry should also test it with the dust cover open. It can't be closed all of the time. Also, Ive started this before. The taped muzzle isnt to improve cyclic reliability. It is a safety precaution. A bore obstruction in ANY rifle can cause catastrophic barrel failure when fired.

[@Mortablunt]

The FNC, which I think is a brilliant weapon that doesn't get even a tenth of the praise it deserves, shares some mechanical similarities to the AK design. The action, bolt, and gas system resemble a technologically advanced version of the Kalashnikov's system.

[@lgdurocher]

Actually it still is because a taped muzzle doesnt increase reliability. A barrel is a barrel and if the barrel of an AK was clogged just like an M4's the barrel would still blow up. Reliability doesnt include the barrel. He was just taking extra steps to ensure his safety

[@Mortablunt]

2 AK variants are still on the regular arms list for GROM. Image search for "GROM Beryl" and you will get pics. You're still ignoring the bit about Finland. Look up "Winter War". Finland had a choice between Soviet and Western guns. They chose Soviet for everything. Ultimately, it's easier on logistics and money to buy a proven gun your ally already uses than develop your own, hence the M4 is dominant in the West. Remember: "Better is the enemy of good enough."

[@theblabla417]

the elite part about it is that they still completed the mission even tho the pilot messed up.

[@lgdurocher]

Very true and thats happened to his..he usually just racks it and it works unless its a double feed..actually most malfunctions are due to the magazine so he would beat the hell out of it. Idk i just love the weapon i think its awesome and i one of the best things in the M-4 is that its flexible and eventually will be upgraded. The 416 owes its exsistance to the M-4..its just an M-4 except w/ a gas piston

[@Gaspard129]

Agreed, own semi-autos of both. Its been several years since i've given my Bushmaster AR-15 a proper clean (Iusually just bore-snake it) and the WASR-10 allows pleasantly surprises me in the accuracy department (2" at 50 yards with shit ammo, you can't ask for much more than that).

[@lgdurocher]

Well full automatic isn't an option in our military for assault rifles unless you are part of a special forces team anyways. Also keep in mind the 416 is nothing more than an M-4 with a piston which is actually saying alot of the M-4/M-16 system considering that even todays most high tech weapons model after 48 year old tech. No matter what the Ar-15 design will never die because it is so versatile. Kinda like its arch enemy the AK

[@fakemail4suckers]

Who? The guy in the video? That is Larry Vickers. He is Ex Army and his former unit was DELTA. He is also one of the most respected firearms instructors in the US.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

>for professional who hits a target with m4 and after 5 mins goes to have a cup of coffee, sand probably doesnt matter And it doesn't during combat either if you have quality parts on the AR15 design and spare lube. Check out the Filthy rifle, it got to several thousands of round without cleaning and only wear parts were replaced (bolt lugs broke once).

[@Gaspard129]

Not quite. Its so that no dirt or debris get into the bore. Bore obstructions can cause potentially catastrophic increases in internal pressure.

[@kobuksonhwacha]

@PanterausfG That being said, for the big Army I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement. In my opinion, the M4 is a specialist weapon unsuited for the lowest common denominator, and as a general infantry rifle there are better options available, with the bureaucracy keeping them from the troops. However, in the hands of well trained, disciplined soldiers, the AR platform has proven itself a light, ergonomic precision tool that exceeds the capabilities of most other rifles today.

[@kobuksonhwacha]

@PanterausfG The empty chamber, again, is for safety purposes. In a live fire situation, of course the weapon would be carried with a round in the chamber, but if dropped or immersed, the round could be damaged and made inoperable. Therefore, manually ejecting the round and cycling a new one from the mag is not a bad idea, and takes less time than pulling the trigger and THEN performing immediate action. Sure, you lose a round, but you gain time in return, which is oftentimes more important.

[@Gaspard129]

See my earlier reply to ITSbigwillystyle. Also, don't know if anyone left you in on it, but the G36 is a neat-looking piece of junk for several reasons. The polymer frame and barrel trunnion are very susceptible to warping after brief, rapid fire. The stock optics are trash (low light transfer, very narrow field-of-view). The magazines are basically just a novelty that tend to drop bullets while in their mag pouches.

[@quangleuc5142]

Nice manual video: change of ar-15 into m4 carbine with full option. How it look so sweet

[@Mortablunt]

Facts I've used (Part 3) 16. Sweden uses AK derivatives, even in SF. 17. Bulgarian SF uses AK. 18. Polish SF most commonly uses AK's. 19 Hungarian SF uses the AK. 20. Greek airborne uses the AK-74. 21. Ukrainian Berkut, Alfa, and TITAN use the AK-74. 22. GROM still has and uses AK's. 23. Logistics, money and politics make it easier to adopt rather than create arms. 24. Weapon choice has huge political meaning. 25. GSG9 is not a military unit. 26. The FNC is an AK derivative.

[@waffenmacht]

@PanterausfG I own a version of all the rifles you listed except for the G36 (with the melting handguard). All are very reliable combat weapons. The M4 is used in real long 24/7 gritty combat everyday with excellent results. It WAS made that way...period. A few other points, the dust cover is a nice addition, I wish my FN Mk16 had one. Vickers taped the barrel to prevent a mud obstruction, which can cause damage to the weapon or operator if fired...thats true for ALL the weapons you listed.

[@kobuksonhwacha]

@PanterausfG The gas piston design, from a mechanical standpoint, is certainly CLEANER, which has a positive effect on reliability under certain circumstances. It is also less stable, less accurate, more fragile, and much more difficult to repair. You seem to have missed the point where I said the DI M16 was chosen IN PREFERENCE to the piston FAL, regardless of whether either weapon is reliable (which they both are). The "panicked" procedures which you refer to are all sound safety measures

[@rajbiswas9077]

No matter how cool it looks the omega rails still feels like a cheese grater

[@deviavenator]

listen people... we all know that the m4 plat form is not very reliable... but you know what.. ammo is light and it damn accurate! so keep in mind that every one has a specific needs when using a gun!

[@Mortablunt]

Facts I've used (part 2) 9. The HK416 & HK417 were influenced by the Kalashnikov design. 10. The Sig 55x series of assault rifles all use the AK action. 11. More Armies and nations use AK's than AR's. 12. Many factions use both AR's and AK's. 13. A significant number of special operations groups use AK's regularly. 14. Military gear choice and procurement is more about money and politics than quality. 15. Finland had a genuine choice of firearms, and they went with the AK.

[@TaZ101SAGA]

Not everything is about defending yourself. It's also about having the freedom to own something that you want to own, if you are safe with an object there is no reason you shouldn't be allowed to own it.

[@Musashiprodigy]

Also look at what Larry Vickers (former Delta/CAG) says about the 416 (which he helped create) " I don't necessarily believe that a piston AR is the right platform for everyone, but I still think that for short barrel applications, the piston ARs has a lot of merit" (Like the SEALs MK.18 416) He stated that in the April Book of the AR-15. Look at him now he runs a school and still uses standard AR/M4s when he helped design the 416. So do you know something he doesn't?

[@Mortablunt]

No, I remember reading a comment by you a while back that you would upload a video of yourself using any weapon in the USMC arsenal.

[@Musashiprodigy]

People who use the AR/M4 are professionals who use take care of their weapon systems. Ever heard the expression take care of your gear and it'll take care of you? The AK has endured the test of time because it is simple to use and you don't necessarily have to take care of it. But as far as modern weapons go, it is lacking. The AR/M4 is by far the most used weapon by SOF ever in history for a reason It is one of the most ergonomic, modular, accurate, capable, reliable (not durable) weapons ever.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

>A lot of G.I.s died in Vietnam because their rifles jammed and were unable to fix the problem in time Don't forget that many of those received their rifles DAYS before the battle (Khe Sanh) and basic training was completed with the M14. There was also a lack of cleaning kits and procedures, the barrels were not chrome lined (the M14 had that) and the powder used was not to spec. The M16's failures could have been avoided.

[@Musashiprodigy]

Not for SOF units it's what works the best and what will make them the most capable or mission requirements. Never said GSG9 is just a special unit.

[@barnabywylde2224]

Which would make the m 4 carbine equal to the other tested rifles & considering that the new rifles were prepped for the test & the M 4 carbines were just old & not maintained to specs, yet still functioned at 98.5% I'd say that was pretty good. Online New York Times article Examining Complaints about America's rifle by C. J. Chivers gives a very accurate assessment of how the M 4 carbine functions in the harsh battlefields of Afghanistan. Hint: in 3 months C. J. saw 1 minor stoppage.

[@Gaspard129]

No personal experience myself, but from what I've read, the G36 is really a sub-par AR-18. With the polymer barrel trunion and other issues, the gun overheats very quickly, and the zero will wander significantly. Not to mention, the standard optics are cheap and very dim. The Washington Metro Police apparently got so sick of them they had them all replaced for AR-15's.

[@lgdurocher]

I totally agree with you there and even if the M27 was equipped with 100 round beta mags they are known for poor reliability. I think the M249 SAW should remain in service or the newer Mk48/Mk43 design should take its place

[@Musashiprodigy]

Well considering the AK and ARs barrel life is around 15,000. and an AK retainer pin would break before reaching that (that is why Krebs and others have improved on that piece) the AK has about 1 or 2 K rounds on it without cleaning. Any weapon can malfunction as it is. And AK malfunctions such as a stuck case in the receiver can be much more problematic than any AR malfunction, such as a failure to feed, or double feed, they are both fixed in seconds or under a minute if you train.

[@brandonl8039]

All taping the muzzle does is prevent shit from getting into the bore, which will cause any gun to explode if gets blocked off. Even the AK. It really is just to make sure he doesn't blow his face apart on accident because of a bore obstruction.

[@DKGate7Ultras]

i dont mean fire 5 mags as soon as possible, i mean just an amount in random time. I want to mention the gas that stays in the gun (m16s rotating bolt keeps a lot of gas in the gun)

[@kobuksonhwacha]

@m1garand1943 Chambered round: agree, but if one were to pick up a submerged/dirty weapon, racking a fresh round into the chamber would likely be a decent idea. Taping off the barrel: agree for most conditions, but dedicated amphibious warfare units will often put "shoot-through" muzzle covers over their weapons at the beginning of engagement. Draining water: see chambered round argument. Closing dust cover: many train to close the dust cover after contact for this reason (i.e. Jason Falla).

[@Gaspard129]

If you can find recent videos of him (they're aren't too many), he's lost something like 70lbs. He's not looking to shabby anymore.

[@Gaspard129]

It might seem like a useless test for the M4/AR15, and in some ways it kind of is. An M4 with the dust cover closed doesn't have a lot of places for sand to get in. The importantance of that test however, is that test has caused other firearms to fail, even Ak's occasionally. Rough sand can get into the reciever and physically block the trigger group, or get in the magazine from the reciever and block the mag follower, jamming the gun

[@Zdrajev]

" I hope you didn't mean AKs are supposed to be individual SAW. Both the AR15 and AK are assault rifles and are supposed to be used on single for the most part." I agree, but it is not always the case in combat. A lot of G.I.s died in Vietnam because their rifles jammed and were unable to fix the problem in time. To make myself perfectly clear: I respect the M4 for its innovation (not to mention that I find it the most beautiful firearm there is), but you cannot deny its flaws, same goes for Ks

[@billdncn]

I believe it is attached to the handguard cap at the front of the hand guard. That is not an Omega Rail

[@Mortablunt]

IIRC, they don't just reissue worn old rifles as they are. Also, the Army banned the usage of anything other than USGI magazines. Yes, that includes your P-mags.

[@Mortablunt]

I was referring to standard issue stocks on the main infantry rifle that were either adjustable and/or folding. The M1 Carbine was not THE standard infantry weapon in the main rifle caliber. I made an error. The NVA (East Geramny) made camo uniforms standard starting in 1956. Charles Beckwith, the founder of Delta Force, was hit by a 12.7x108 and survived. Shot placement is important, but with the exception of ideal sniper shots, predicting how the target will react is not an exact science.

[@Gaspard129]

The point is its a borrowed word, so generally, the native language's pronunciation takes precedance. Honestly, both pronunciations are used so often now, that both are correct

[@Mortablunt]

From what I gather, what a nation uses is more dependent upon its politics than anything else. Both guns are world class weapons, so it's a matter of preference, politics, and economics. States that want to be politically linked to the USA, or don't have a choice because we're either occupying them (Afghanistan+Iraq) or have them under our thumb (Japan) tend to use AR or at least 5.56. Nations that don't want to be linked with us choose AK's and combloc rounds. And GSG9 is police, not military.

[@HighSpeedPFC]

An M16A2/A4 with its 20inch barrel takes more use of the 5.56 then an average rifle length G36 with an 18.5 inch barrel. An M4 has a 14.5 barrel as opposed to a G36K with a 12.5. Longer the barrel the better muzzle velocity for the 5.56. Despite what people think the 5.56 is fully lethal out to 300meters even out of an M4. Have a lot of my battle buddies accounts where even if they didn't drop at first, they tended to bleed out and die slow. Combat effectiveness is objective.

[@MrZacfisher]

ive seen one fired immediately after being removed from water and i thought someone was going to die, it completely blew off the shell deflector and most of that area of the gun was blown open, we figured the water was still in the gas tube, listen to mr vickers completely vent your ar15 if it gets submerged

[@Mortablunt]

My mistake, I intended to say middle on the trigger. Side rails came before even weaver rails. AK12 first new AK developed since proliferation of rail systems. Are Picatinny rails actually a vital necessity? All modern AK's have folding stocks, which are even more compact than telescoping stocks. Modern AK's don't have the burning handguards problem. What did I say about pistols again; I didn't mention pistols anywhere. Before you get cheeky, remember that AR's are meant to be mass produced too.

[@billdncn]

The rail LV installs is not free float. it is simply a drop in. The barrel is not free floated with this simple add on.

[@Autobotmatt428]

nice burn. also thank u for your service

[@Musashiprodigy]

No the M16 does not have more "power" the extra barrel length adds velocity so the round will tumble and fragment in targets at longer ranges. Which can be rectified by a heavier grain bullet. The 556 and the 545s internal performance are almost exactly identical. They both tumble and fragment in a target. look at Martin Facklers work on ballistics. It shows there is basically no difference. And with heavy bullets in the 556 it will produce larger wound cavity's and more wound channels

[@Musashiprodigy]

Vickers even said, a piston AR (416) is not for everyone it should only be used if you have these criteria a lot of full auto fire, or short barrel with suppressor. Like the SEALs 10 inch barreled 416. Or the Marines M27 416. While the SEALs still use the AR/M16 in the SPR role and the Marines use them for every other rifle. You can still find plenty of pics of SOF with M4s. They get faster split times and less weight. Even when the 416 was first fielded it had problems. Get some experience kid

[@m1garand1943]

@kobuksonhwacha sure, but showing the steps required to recover from getting a barrel obstruction on both platforms would be a better test and a better show

[@HighSpeedPFC]

The M16 / M4WS are more reliable then people give them credit ( speaking from personal experience ). Unfortunately it is over blown by the media and its initial problems in 1965 ( there are a myriad of reasons for that ). Yes I took care of my weapon but I didn't keep it immaculate. Most I'd do is wipe and drop CLP on the BCG and buffer assembly. I only really took apart the BCG when I was bored. Most of the my issues were from bad feeding because those STANMAGs were old hand me downs.

[@Gaspard129]

Yep, the original M16 was a failure of the McNamara years. They almost couldn't have fucked up worse. They changed the powder spec. They didn't chrome-line the barrels (against Eugene Stoner's wishes). They didn't issue cleaning kits. The original M16 stands as an example of the failure of McNamara's bureaucratic bean-counters. The M16A1, introduced in 1968, rectified almost all of these problems, and the complaints disappeared almost over night. The M16A1 was lightweight, accurate, and reliable

[@Musashiprodigy]

regardless of the weapon as a matter of fact. The Tape is to prevent something that would hinder any and all weapons

[@Mortablunt]

You've never seen me troll in earnest. How was my first post here troll bait? AK has many more derivatives than AR. It has so many that there is a Wikipedia article solely dedicated to listing them. It's still incomplete. Eugene Stoner was such a great genius that even 55 years later, the mightiest nation on earth still can't get his design totally right, and he spent decades of his life trying to get the Stoner 63 right, which he never did. Truly great designs don't need continued improvements.

[@Autobotmatt428]

nice burn dude. also thanks for you service

[@Mortablunt]

Yes, Musashi, it is possible to use an AK as I have described. You claim to have AK's. Try it out- I think you'll be pleased. Troops get flashlights because it's the easiest way to use a light with a gun. Optics make it easier to aim. Neither is essential. Marines took headshots because that's the only shot they were presented (chest shots are preferred almost universally), and Marines being marksmen, they managed to successfully take those shots. Anyway, name the study you keep citing.

[@lgdurocher]

Very true again the AK definately posts better reliability but I hope i dont sound bias, I'd rather take an M-4 to war. And yes the M-4 was deemed the least reliable in the dust test but those 882 stoppages were out of 60,000 rounds meaning the M-4 functioned 98% of the time in dust. In addition, 25% of all malfunctions were due to magazines, NOT the M-4 itself. And all these new gas systems being created can and probably will simply be incorporated into the M-4 design. Colt invented the piston.

[@STLSNIPER]

When you removed the handle with the iron rear sights and you replaced them; Do you use the rear sights and the fixed front sights through the view of the aimpoint you have installed? I have a Bushmaster M4 and want a better rear sight. Thanks.

[@MailmanJustin]

Yes. It's called a co-witness. But you don't use the irons and the optic together, though.

[@Mortablunt]

Welcome to part 1 of the longest AR professional grade fanwank.

[@barnabywylde2224]

The extreme dust test is debatable; full-sized rifles vs carbine M 4, NEW rifles vs old M4s not capable of cycling required rate, old magazines vs new mags, semi-full autos vs semi-3 shot burst ( m4 ). Tester did not understand the 3 round burst so some "stoppages" documented weren't really stoppages. Plus 2 other tests with different (competent) testers the M4 had better results, MUCH better results i.e. 148 class 1 jams in test 1 & 111 jams in test 3. There were 3 dust tests all together.

[@schifty1]

"This weapon will take care of you, if you take care of it." Well, you know what? An AK will take care of you, even if you don't take care of it.

[@schifty1]

@JUKEBOXX1990 Yes, I would too. It is just the premise that sometimes you don't have the time to clean your weapon in battle, and it needs to work every time it is needed.

[@odiesdad01]

You should cut the tie strap tail flush with the head of the strap. The small bit you left will be sharp and will cut your hands/fingers.

[@ArmorKingEmir]

AN-94 is for spetsnaz and AK-12 is still an AK. for professional who hits a target with m4 and after 5 mins goes to have a cup of coffee, sand probably doesnt matter, but if there is gonna be any weapon in the world that I can trust my life, its gonna be AK ...

[@lgdurocher]

Gun maintenance is a military requirement of the firearm..fact is any gun can and will break down if you don't treat it properly so why risk it? My father is an Army Soldier and he loves his M-4. "If you take care of it, it will take care of you".

[@JUKEBOXX1990]

@schifty1 thats understandable but as long as you cleaned it the day before it will work even if you got it dirty still..this is 2012 not 1965 ar 15 m4 m16 are very reliable now a days

[@Musashiprodigy]

And I have told you before, guess you forget. USGI magazines account for over 75% of the malfunctions they experience, that's why SOF use PMAGs or or magazines. Also there are a lot of worn out Colts still in service

[@chizhr]

"This weapon take care of you, if you take care of it". AK take care of you if you don't take care of it !!! Feel the difference. It fires, because non of the mud, sand, get into the gun, once when it does get, the game is over.

[@theblabla417]

the m4 is a good weapon just not reliable in extreme conditions unless of course with out the tape. but if hes so elite like you say he is he should know that if he coming out of the water or getting his gun out of the water while an enemy just saw him , the guy isnt ganna wait for him to drain his gun

[@Mortablunt]

I found that it was a faster way to manipulate the weapon, so I altered my fingering. You can find more online. Folding stocks are meant for storage, carrying, interiors, and vehicles. Let's ask Carlos Hathcock if he needed an adjustable stock during his sniper career. To get around LOP issues with gear, start with a stock that is a bit too short while you're in just a shirt. Honestly, it's not much of a problem, even when I've gone from shirtless to bronezhilet with all plates. Cheap=/=bad.

[@TheHorta]

Impossible to co-witness with that sight / optic setup.

[@Musashiprodigy]

Your missing the point. They don't tape them every time. That is isn't even practiced in the military anymore. It was mainly done in Vietnam due to the high humidity. And non chrome lined barrels which AKs had. It was done in this test to prevent a clog in the barrel. Not to beef up reliability. Look at EAG tacticals filthy 14 test. The AR is VERY reliable. It will shoot till the barrel needs replacing

[@MrZacfisher]

you think you know what your talking about,the only problem the m16a1 had was it was rushed into serviced and issue improperly, they issued ammo with powder that gummed the rifles up, they had no chrome lining in the chamber or the barrel, now they do, the ammo is cleaner burning ammo too, theres a reason the ar15 platform has been around for so many years and no matter how many new rifles the army tries they never replace it and they use 5.56 the high pressure round not .223 know your shit

[@m4rk37]

@esh325 everyone in the military flips the dust cover up after shooting and flips the saftey back on. thats why the dust cover is there.

[@Mortablunt]

I just got back from WIki. It ain't there. According to the editor, the figures were removed because they were wildly different numbers and did not come from a contemporary military source. Anyway, the crook isn't a stress-bearing part. So long as it's in correctly and you don't screw with it, it's content to just sit there until kingdom come. You said "kalsh". I'd like to know what that is, lol.

[@Gaspard129]

Where are you getting that they are trained by the SAS? They were created in the late 70's after the US realized that it didn't have a direct-action counter-terrorism force like the SAS. They are not trained by the SAS. They do however train together from time to time so that they are prepared to do joint operations.

[@Mortablunt]

If I were taking discussion seriously, I'd be doing it on a forum instead of KZbin comments.

[@mrslothguy]

Love the way it looks. From what I read though it did the worst in terms of stoppages in some test.

[@supernewportman100s]

you right most people do not know anything about that issue

[@Musashiprodigy]

That's why larry Vickers who helped make the 416, still prefers the AR/M4. Your bit about water in the chamber is not true, neither is the bit about recoil

[@Ichliebegermany]

thank you for serving out country man!

[@Musashiprodigy]

He is former Delta/CAG the best counter terrorism unit in the world. He has trained more special operations guys than anyone else in American history. What exactly he is talking about that doesn't know about? And do you have any more experience than him on this subject? Please tell me