Combat Shooting, NOT Point Shooting | Aim With The Body, Confirm With The Sights | Tactical Rifleman

I'm NOT big on Point Shooting. The argument that it is "faster" out to 10 yards is flawed. First, it has been proven to NOT be faster. Second, what about if the threat presents at 12 meters? Are you now gonna start looking for your sights that you never practice with? FAIL.
However, if you ALWAYS train with your sights, if at the moment of truth you are too scared to acquire them, your muscle memory will present the firearm to the correct direction to get you hits.
Proven. It works.
We hope you enjoy the long-winded video. TR
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[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Imri is an outstanding teacher! I had the honor of training with the pistol for three days and over 24 hours of instruction total and Imri dramatically improved my Handgun accuracy and proficiency.

[@primecombattraining5888]

Thank you brother.

[@cipesp778]

Cheers!!!

[@kevingraham8535]

I have the upmost respect for y’all because all of you never “act” as if you are perfect as so many others do, are constantly learning WHILE teaching, and explain in ways that anyone can understand.

[@TacticalRifleman]

Thanks for the support.

[@RobinP556]

Great video and even though my shooting stance is entirely different there are still good takeaways from this video. And in case anyone is curious, my shooting position is different because of my disability, a T-4 paraplegic, not because you’re wrong and I’m right. I’ve worked on a shooting stance that’s squared with the target and more like what most experienced shooters use, but I have to do all kinds of wonky repositioning in my wheelchair before I can even draw.

[@TacticalRifleman]

Robin, we love you

[@KingMusa99]

Without even knowing each other I can tell spite all of that your determination & mind are STRONG!!!! 🤟💯

[@mikepeterson9362]

Yeah, I'm one of those old guys. I'm a former MP5 instructor who was taught initially by Phil Singleton back in the HK ITD's early days. He used to say "You're operating in a blackened condition, looking for black sights, and because you're wearing a respirator you can't use a bloody stock anyway." That's how ITD taught point-shooting back then -- it was an R3-sling on an MP5A3, stock collapsed, pushed out symmetrically at your chin, and never the sites to be seen. And they had a point, he wasn't wrong. What the 22nd SAS had pioneered back in the day was a quantum leap (sorry Team 6, no offense). But Bill Rogers wasn't the only one who did tests back in the day. We now know that if you "point shoot" WITH sites on your weapon, you will shoot WAY better than if you "point shoot" without. In other words, we ripped sites off of guns completely and retested. It turns out that without even mentally focusing on the damn things we all shot WAY better just by having that protruding metal on the tops of our slides and/or receivers. In other words, the peripheral vision does a LOT of work, even if we don't mean it to. Or even train it to. And they asked every last one of us to the damn man, we never consciously looked at them. But just like a good woman, you sure miss 'em when they're gone. This video is a good lesson. Although a few years kinda slow, LOL. :-) Love you brothers, thanks for the content.

[@TacticalRifleman]

Thanks for sharing and thank you for your service, TR

[@mikepeterson9362]

@@TacticalRifleman Thanks man, I really appreciate that. Too kind. Karl, can you do me a favor? Can you tell all our fellow knuckle draggers out there that we aren't trying to impress Muslims anymore, and that it's finally okay to go out get a damned shave. That would be great. :-).

[@dr.iglesia9102]

Ive been doing d exercise dry fire in my room..you fine tuned my drills..iron sights here..more power chief..

[@darklyripley6138]

I’ve been teaching point shooting for years, but not exactly in the way mentioned. We more focused on point shooting with rifles in CQB. Which is something that makes way more sense than point shooting with handguns. Though that’s not to say that we point shooting with handguns doesn’t work. I also kinda disagree on using your body to point you in the right direction. Stance really is a subjective thing. It comes down to what is comfortable, and what works for the individual shooter. So to say “Take this type of stance, and align with the target” doesn’t sit well with me. Unless you’re going to specifically work with people who use other stances, and help them adapt while keeping said stance, I wouldn’t recommend it.

[@johnmassey2309]

I could not demonstrate proper technique better. Repeat, Repeat again. Great video.

[@Rif_Leman]

Imri: Understanding "control hand" vs support hand has resulted in a HUGE improvement in my pistol shooting.

[@longiusaescius2537]

@Rif_Leman what's that mean?

[@jerryj3047]

yup this is exactly how we trained back then. You will be surprised how off you are when you open your eyes. Great video 👍👍

[@doms.6701]

Personally I'm not comfortable going out to 10m in "point shoot". I've practiced point only upto 5m but regularly practice at 7-20m. When I practice point shooting I pretend at 5m the target is moving towards me. So in my mind they start at 5m but when I pull the trigger they would be within 2m. But my range allows holster drawing. Still very new to real world practice. I've been shooting for well over a decade but within the last 2 years I've trained for an actual threat. Not just having fun at the range like I did in the past. Great video and definitely something I'll be adding to my training, whenever I get the money for rounds 😂

[@Twisted_Pair.]

Thanks Karl and Imri for the great emphasis on using your sights during training. This will help my point shooting. Thank you so much for making this video. Much appreciated!! TR LEADS THE WAY !!

[@DarkysLPs]

I really can't get over how similar he looks and talks like Norm Macdonald

[@compulsivegunbuyer]

Never noticed this before

[@Blackout22442]

Finally someone agrees!

[@thedonuteater5474]

I just don’t see norm in Karl. Just don’t Not even close. That just me tho

[@Marcos-eh8ik]

I always think the same thing.

[@DarkysLPs]

And don't get me wrong it's not meant to be in bad faith, I love Norm, it's just an observation

[@agentfranks1093]

yeah i got taught point shooting for cqb its training till the point you know exactly where your rifle is so you can fire with reasonably accurate in spit second scenarios before you can get your eyes behind your sights

[@joshlampe3458]

Great video. This reminds me of when I started shooting shotgun competitively and learned the sights are only there to confirm you've mounted the gun correctly; you should never aim a shotgun, you point it.

[@VigilanteMind]

Never thought of it that way. I always sucked shooting clay.

[@joshlampe3458]

@@VigilanteMind That's likely why. It was like a lightswitch when I was taught to do that a decade ago. Most clay guns have two beads for sights, they should make an 8. As long as you lock in the upper body, head, and gun it's as simple as looking and following the bird. It should all move as a unit. Mount the gun, confirm the 8, then pull.

[@VigilanteMind]

@@joshlampe3458 Thanks for that

[@vincegordon6830]

Excellent teaching video! Thank you Imri and Karl!

[@dgkallday897747]

This is wild i littleraly just wanted to hear a debate on the subject of point shooting for my own technic building and these guys poped right up. Great work guys loved this detailed explanation confirmed all my own preferences thanks!

[@matthewserkert4401]

Great stuff! Thanks Gents.

[@TacticalRifleman]

You are welcome

[@davesunhammer4218]

I like how Carl's "bad shooting position" is still so ingrained TR that it's better than most people's best shooting stance. Eat it, Breathe it, Live it. "Put yourself in a bad shooting position, Carl." *Carl slouches shoulders* Ha! Someone teach Carl how to slouch below the waste. Maybe put 70% of his weight over one foot or the other, put the other foot back or not the proper distance apart, etc...

[@teardroprenatls]

Thank you for sharing this, it has helped me a lot. Just starting shooting in December 2022. I have taken two classes and one 1:1 training. You two covered what he did not. So thank you!!

[@realspitkenny5561]

Good stuff gentlemen. Those steps from 3 to 4 helps.

[@russellridge8623]

Good info. A- for Imri. Never said “ Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast”. 😂 Great job Imri.

[@norseman6306]

Great information presented - thx Imri and Karl! Solid!

[@TheTruthis5285]

As always, I love the content of your videos!!! Old dogs like me CAN learn new tricks! Thanks my brothers!!

[@paulcritchfield6958]

Great information! Thank you

[@victormaxwell5947]

Very cool 😎 Thanks guys.

[@juliomaldonado4028]

I never miss!

[@garypatterson7031]

I really enjoy your videos . I always learn something. They are not the typical gun videos most people put on UTUBE. The let me show you how great I am videos.

[@TacticalRifleman]

Thanks for watching, TR

[@shotgunaaron]

Digging it! Good info!

[@Stoney_AKA_James]

Great points/instruction! Remember, it's "perfect practice makes perfect" and not practice makes perfect

[@TacticalRifleman]

Too true

[@terryqueen3233]

What an excellent drill for memory. I'm sure I'm going to try this. Stay vigilant!

[@Iseevideo101]

At a school I first attended that is no longer in business, at least not as that entity, we performed what seemed to be a few thousand repetitions. And on the third day we stayed until night came. Then after some more with lights, we did it without light. Everyone shot better than in daylight or with a flashlight. Front Sight Focus.

[@jasondubois3399]

I know this video is a little old and this comment probably won’t be seen, but there was one thing that I felt like saying. The idea that under high stress, when your body reverts to fight or flight, that you won’t be able to take your eyes off the threat to look at the sights, has been debunked plenty of times in real world examples. The NYPD’s infamous “Stakeout Squad” was involved in over 200 face to face gunfights with armed criminals during the time that the unit was active. Throughout the course of the unit’s history, two officers in particular were involved in more shootings than any of the others. Jim Cerillo and Bill Allard. Both of these gentlemen reported that in the midst of a gunfight, they were focused so hard on their front sight that they could count the serrations on it. Ultimately it comes down to training. Under stress, we revert to our training, so if we train to use the sights, then we will use the sights.

[@TacticalRifleman]

I agree with you that military tier-1 and tier-2 units that trained constantly were able to use their sites. I can’t speak for LE units; but I have seen hundreds of failures during force on force training, due to lack of training. That is the number one advantage of a red dot optic on either rifle or pistol, is that it allows you to leave your focal plane on the threat. Thanks for watching, TR

[@kevinunger1540]

Good training video. Thank you.

[@thedonuteater5474]

Poor Karl. Keep trying man you’ll get the hang of shooting some day. 🤣

[@leokoch1169]

I like the close eye technique and finding your target and going slow.Good practice training. Thank you.

[@MichaelGalt]

That is an absolutely great video. No bs, to the point, extremely clear and helpful. Thank you.

[@TacticalRifleman]

Glad it helped! Thanks for watching, TR

[@gmz1997]

Great video guys! Love the channel. I''ll say this thou, everyone is right and no one is right. lol On the my flat range I train in all and my final one, two, three round drill is point and fire, front sight post then front and rear sights in rapid succession. Exercises all three approaches in one drill at the end of a training day. My goal with the above mentioned drill is at 5 to 10 yards 8" circle, 5" circle or less and bullseye for the final shot. Why doesn't anyone talk about the effects of being the first to fire in the man-on-man situation? Being first to fire, will have a profound effect on the bad guys level of engagement with a hit on any part of the body. I say this because in a CCW situation for a citizen, the threat is presented when a weapon is out or being drawn down on you. Seriously behind the power curve. But that is the legal reality. A buddy and me, with only a pair of shorts on, no shirts, stood off against each other with two airsoft pistols. Like idiots, we stood our ground and from a draw fired at each other. Well that hurt. Next engagement had us moving. If either of us was late on the draw, it had a profound effect. So, strip down guys and demonstrate it. lol It will change your perspective quickly. No one can predict their body alarm response nor realistically asked their mind to remove their eyes from the threat in that situation. It's like stopping the knee reflex test at the docs office. Not going to happen so don't rely on defeating it no matter the amount of prep. So I say practice all three and don't rely on one approach. Because next year, that doctrine will change. lol Again guys great video with lots of great information.

[@TacticalRifleman]

I'm all about firing from retention and firing on the way up, during draw, when threat is in close proximity. However, those drills are a waste if you haven't mastered your well-aimmed draw. Thanks for watching, TR

[@longiusaescius2537]

Huh

[@keithbrown9198]

Makes perfect sense, great practical advice. Thanks!

[@samuelhorowitz5029PLUMBCRAZY]

Thank you for pointing the steps out. I am taking my daughter for her first lesson at a range. I want her to know what how and why. She has a vet. Teaching her. I have taken her out but I thought it would be best to have a professional teach her everything.

[@TacticalRifleman]

Glad it was helpful!

[@samuelhorowitz5029PLUMBCRAZY]

One thing I think is Great is every time I have commented you have replied. Thank you! You don't get that from all .. I have learned so much from what you all put out. Just want the say Thank you!

[@TacticalRifleman]

Appreciate it

[@hvyduty1220]

Love your channel.....

[@benjaminhurley1823]

We should always be aware of where the rounds are landing at all times so it doesn't really matter if you use sights but you better have a system that you can be 85% sure the round is gonna hit the target

[@MW_2628]

Awesome teaching video! But the audio is just sooo bad. Would be great if you guys could change that. Thank you💪

[@TacticalRifleman]

Yeah, sorry about that.

[@SkinnieHehe]

So point shooting is orientating your body combined with muscle memory to not have to look down the sight to know where you’re shooting?

[@sennest]

Super solid information, the best there is!😎👍👍🙏🙏

[@crafty714]

Thanks!! This video helped me tremendously!!!!!

[@TacticalRifleman]

Glad it helped!

[@Hardrock4040]

Tons of content, I personally like Practice or dont carry. I would like to see more everyday real life skills. I've watched every self defence video I can find for years. Never do people get to grip with both hands, one hand is already in the fight or they just get ambushed. LEO's, military, clearing buildings is not what concealed carry people are doing. Distance shooting, there's a few cases. But for EDC, that makes you the the one defending in court. Recently I've gave up target shooting, been doing it 50 years. I switched to hip shooting. Fast draw, first round on target, one hand. Can we get some tips on that? I've hit a wall in the .70 range but have seen it done in the .5's. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[@jeepn0811]

Great video!

[@selfpolicing]

Worldclass! Thanks!

[@mikepayne5032]

👋

[@reddevilparatrooper]

No shit I will agree!!! Sights on target no matter how focused you are but you will be able to put sights on target also with multiple threats and shoot them if need be. I believe in point shooting into a target looking through or slightly over the front sight and engaging them. You may aim low but hit close to center mass. Aim for their balls or slightly above it works in close range. Hit your target and deal with them to make sure they feel it or drop like a sack of potatoes... You will end up shooting at not the right position and shoot from where you are at because of getting your ass kicked or have no choice to engage.

[@SheepDog44]

Good job men 🇺🇸

[@doejohn8674]

Excellent drill! And you can do a lot of it without ammo.

[@VigilanteMind]

After watching this video... My personal opinion, train in both.

[@user-xp5vi6oy4g]

This subject always has had reputable trainers with sometimes very different views. Each of them will insist that only their method is proven the best. They back that claim up with good examples. All of us being individuals, we may need to find THE one method that's perfect for each of us. I plan on trying all ways. "Point shooting," ... "Front Sight Shooting", "Shooting From The Hip", ... "Weak Hand," ... "Strong Hand", ... "Both Hands", ... And even aiming the pistol with NO Sights installed. I don't do any competitive shooting. I'm strictly wanting to hone fast accurate self defense shooting. I believe that if I am consistent in doing each of these, I should have an appropriate defense response that I can totally rely on in any situation.

[@peters303]

In your closing Karl, it boils 👎🏼 wn to 🚃 Ng and repetition Rob Leatham and also Ernest Langdon did similar posts. Many military also refer to point shooting as in CQB scenario you may not have that split second to align sights and take a full aimed shot.

[@TacticalRifleman]

Sorry, I don't watch other channels. I don't want to get accused of stealing other's content. I have several more years worth of worthless content up in my brain. Thanks for watching, TR

[@thickseed]

@@TacticalRifleman We have no proof that you don't watch others' content.

[@Fer-De-Lance]

Karl, is Bill Rogers the only one who performed a test/study? Thank you and have a great day.

[@TacticalRifleman]

Nope… lots of people have, including us, but Bill Rogers was the legend that taught me.

[@JC-np2zs]

@@TacticalRifleman Thanks! Has any of this been documented? I've read Bill Rogers book and he indicates his testing was using 1920's style one-handed point shooting. There is no question, that in all but close range niche applications, modern techniques are more consistent than 1920's one-handed point shooting techniques. But there are lots of kinds of point shooting. COL Applegate taught the isosceles stance many decades before Bill Rogers caught up to him. COL Applegate taught both conventional sighted and 2-handed isosceles point shooting. COL Applegate ran extensive shoothouse studies documenting in "Kill or Get Killed" his methods were far superior to conventional techniques during WW2. "Bulleyes don't shoot back" documents some of the extensive combat success of COL Applegate's students. Roger Philips Point Shooting Progressions built on COL Applegate's work and as far as I am aware Bill Rogers never tested his techniques against either COL Applegate's or Roger Philips techniques. World Champion Ben Stoeger sounds an awful lot like Roger Philips in his discussion of pistol sighting techniques: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIjLpnhpmL-bfLM I would love to see a Ben Stoeger vs. Bill Rogers shootoff.

[@Slave-nl8xn]

Nice.

[@blcarcher6964]

Great video and Topic ,front site target sugar squeeze

[@WorkingKNeun]

Great video! I totally get your point!

[@thereisnoneRighteous-but-GOD]

Great video, thank you both!!

[@TacticalRifleman]

Our pleasure!

[@joeck30]

Good stuff!!

[@GetMeThere1]

Great video. This is my go to channel for anything SERIOUS, for the simple reason that I know, if what you're recommending didn't work, you'd be DEAD instead of making the video.

[@TacticalRifleman]

Thanks for the support. Strength and Honor, TR

[@peteperkins3859]

I'm not on board with the statement that using the sights and point shooting are the same. It takes a trained shooter with good vision, 3 tenths of a second to aquire a sight picture. Point shooting is much faster.

[@TacticalRifleman]

You missed the whole point of the video.

[@SgtEaglefort]

haha, is "bad guy" the censored version of what he wanted to say?

[@TacticalRifleman]

Yes

[@joshuaborne4721]

Imri what is the manufacturer of the pants and their model pleas.

[@TacticalRifleman]

Josh, that sounds a little "gay," but I will ask Imri for you. TR

[@DARTHDANSAN]

Super helpful

[@hansblitz7770]

How important is it for a dot on a pistol? Especially a carry pistol since I won't be allowed to put one on the work gun? I know it is an advantage, but I also do not feel like clicking brightness from noon to night, I'd probably forget, and I don't mess with the gun unless I need it, training, or administrative. It is like I'm in denial, but dots look like a damn star to me anyway, I just don't want to mess with it. How much am I missing out?

[@primecombattraining5888]

Don’t get pressured into a red dot. They can be a wonderful tool but they don’t solve the world’s problems. If your grip and presentation are not great a dot can be even more confusing for many people. Also, people who try to take a shortcut by going to red dot without mastering iron sights will find it harder to acquire the dot quickly. Thanks for the question.

[@hansblitz7770]

Thanks dude.

[@Jay-ho9io]

If you're not going to be allowed to have it on the work gun, I don't see the return on investment, on putting it on something else. I try to keep my personal tools as similar to my work tools as possible. Hope that helps. Be safe.

[@gregwright392]

Great info as usual!

[@TacticalRifleman]

Glad it was helpful!

[@butchie2752]

I’m not an expert, but I think they make point shooting more complicated than it needs to be.

[@matthewtemkin4726]

Ain’t that the truth.

[@igaraider]

Yea fr

[@stuartb9194]

LARPers take note

[@TacticalRifleman]

We don’t do LARPers here. They are too cool

[@richardkut3976]

How does Jerry do it?

[@HawkmanWalker]

How is aiming with your body different from point shooting? That is literally what combat point shooting talks about. That you need to aim with your body primarily rather than looking for sights.

[@davom5858]

Karl, what iron sights are you run'n with the Holosun HE509 ACSS Vulcan Reticle?

[@TacticalRifleman]

Trijicon

[@mariosmith8456]

It seems like what you're calling point shooting is what Us in the competition world call Target focus. It's much easier with the dot For sure but any A class or above irons shooter is probably going to shoot a human-sized Target at 25 yards Target focus, he's still using his sights he's just focused on the Target and the irons are almost in his peripheral. It's the same for red dot Shooters who put tape over their optic so you can't look through the glass. The guys that shoot an ocluded dot will shoot an 8in plate at 50yds with the window of their dot Covered.

[@TacticalRifleman]

Yep, it’s called the Benden Aiming Concept and was how some of the original red dot optics were designed to be used. Thanks for watching, TR

[@avjeeper7006]

Where is your training located?

[@TacticalRifleman]

You can find our different training locations at tacticalrifleman.com

[@kansquatch]

👍

[@davidmann2988]

Point shooting with a red dot sight..... huh

[@ltwilliamsjonathanrussell8941]

What if you have the ability to forgo the gross motor skill or flight stage and you can stay in an ambidextrous technical a technical State what what what what what what what do you do with that kind of person I don't go gross motor skills I go find motor skills when I'm under a heavy stressed there's nobody even talking about that everybody's the same in your opinion they go grow some other skills when they get stressed the f*** out and it's like not everybody's like that I go find motor skills when I get stressed

[@frankraia4915]

🙏🇺🇸🙏

[@johnhalpin1847]

Good Video as far as purpose and issues. That is a bad example with the turning eyes closed you did, because you take the eye-hand coordination out of the equation which is a primary element of point shooting- natural point of aim. Not good analysis and the lining up of shoulders and hips on rotation is a factor in isosceles stance. I totally agree with locked wrists, however that is different dependent of firearm and angle of grip. Raising rear sight by adjusting grip angle or possibly as I observed and I maybe wrong is support handle middle finger in contact with trigger guard and index further out and also in contact. I think this may raise his front site. Just having support hand index finger in contact may lower front sight without having to consciously raise rear sight and change his grip angle. .

[@jerryj3047]

I have to disagree with you. We trained the same way and it work. It is about building muscle memory for lining up your body on the target. You going to shoot always up or down depending on the pistol like CZ against the Glock, because of different grip angles. Larry Vickers has a video about my unit 😎😎

[@johnhalpin1847]

@@jerryj3047 So you think doing the drill eyes closed doesn't take the eye hand coordination out of point shooting. I actually think you proved it does. I understand the concept of point shooting and muscle memory as I use it myself, it was developed to start with eye hand coordination, however if you have your eyes closed how do you verify that your muscle memory is correct, without verification as you also pointed out you would be creating a muscle memory that was incorrect. So Muscle memory and eye hand coordination are very important in NPA or POA shooting. You can't at least in shooting create a proper muscle memory with out eye hand coordination verification.

[@jerryj3047]

@@johnhalpin1847 It is an old technique that which Vietcong used also . You are correct it does mess up your eye-hand coordination but after a while, your body adjusts and you line up always perfectly on target . For example, you will be able to shoot in the complete dark on target just by hearing the noise

[@johnhalpin1847]

@@jerryj3047 OK Grasshopper LOL I'd hate to be the one testifying I shot at a noise without Identification of target or threat. LOL Not trying to argue but you did indicate you need to hand the eye hand coordination along with the muscle memory to make it work, then I guess if you want to shoot blindfolded or in the dark I guess, just not something I would do for various reasons. Even at the end he recommends sights are there for a reason use them which is best however depending on the distance point shooting does work. On a silhouette I can keep everything in the 9 ring up to 40 ft and7- 8 ring out to 75 Point Shooting, granted using sights I keep everything in the 9 ring. However I've been doing this for 30 yrs.

[@jerryj3047]

@@johnhalpin1847 As I said it is an old combat technique I agree is not suited for pew pew shooting

[@larrymarsico4059]

👊💪🤙🇺🇲

[@dilorenzopiero5162]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@clintonmclean9621]

p̷r̷o̷m̷o̷s̷m̷ 💃

[@christopherflynn6743]

He who questions training only trains himself at asking questions "Mystery Men"

[@BeingFireRetardant]

Ummm... some training just sucks.

[@bomber101581]

Who teaches "only" point shooting?

[@TacticalRifleman]

There are instructors that swear by it. Always steer clear of them.

[@bomber101581]

@@TacticalRifleman no I'm asking who. I know plenty of instructors who teach some version of point shooting in the context of when we need sights and when we don't. But who teaches "only" point shooting? Because I'm not aware of any.

[@thickseed]

@@bomber101581 Same here. I think there may have been some exaggeration.