Tainted Grail Kings of Ruin Review - They Fixed EVERYTHING in This Prototype!

[@4469luis]

I wish you were given more Kickstarter and gamefound games to review. You guys are way better at reviewing games than those other channels.

[@kanalune]

I definitely feel like their reviews come from a more sincere place and they aren’t afraid to point out the bad things. Very refreshing from the extremely positive reviews from other channels

[@kaijuh]

BoardGameCo And Quackalope feel attacked by this comment lol Those guys are the undisputed kings of Hyping everything.

[@nihilistick]

Quackalope might be the worst review channel ever. That dude overhypes every single thing if he gets pocket money for it@@kaijuh

[@Jsleezy_2000]

I can’t believe I look forward to hour long board game reviews! You guys are killing it. So entertaining and funny while still delivering outrageously good insight. I’m here for it!

[@CB-yh3db]

I had seen so many Kings of Ruins previews I was going to skip on this one. Glad I didn’t. This one was by far my favorite. I love the personality you infused into this review.

[@Shelfside]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Rokku82]

The amount of effort you have put into this review is insane. Not only did you discuss the pros and cons of Tainted Grail / Kings of Ruin but you also give good critical feedback and possible ALTERNATIVES!!! to fix these potential issues. So many others just give a high level preview with catchy sound bites and hardly handly critical feedback. I hope Awaken Realms deep dive into this video and take all your feedback into consideration because I truly think it would lead to an even better game. Props guys!

[@vlowolvtake1797]

I love Daniel's enthusiasm😍

[@djfusion2808]

I’m loving the massive production quality increase lately guys, great introductions!

[@Gooch337]

This is fantastic. Not only funny, but full of real pros and cons. Well done guys

[@biglew031]

Great vid! Need y’all to do more Kickstarter/Game-found content. Really not many others that do reviews on crowd funding games. You guys give great insight what these game are and can be. Appreciate ya.

[@Shelfside]

That's the plan! Thanks for watching!

[@beakerkell]

Man, this was the review I needed. My first video of yours and I will definitely be watching others now!

[@mathieulabrosse8671]

Really love the energy and sometimes vulgarity in the video, feels like a friend showing me a game! Keep it up!

[@rabbit11comics39]

You guys have quickly become my favorite game reviewers. Daniel always has me laughing my ass off. So good.

[@blackemerald]

Loved this video, you've covered stuff in KoR that other reviewers haven't and given me far more to think on regards backing the game. Also you're style is great, I've subscribed and watched a good few hours already. Thanks for putting so much effort into your videos and analysis!

[@Shelfside]

hey awesome to hear, got lots more stuff coming! -Ashton

[@ryokunn1]

I watched this video when it first dropped months ago, and I’ve come back to watch it again (and your FoA reviews, again) while trying to decide what to add to my pledge. Great reviews, very informative, and love the constructive criticisms. These have helped immensely, and are also entertaining in the best way! Would love to see reviews for TLK and AoL 2.0 when that comes out. Hope you do more TG content!

[@Shelfside]

Awesome man! Yeah more reviews on the way, I think we'll try to get AoL 2.0 :) -Ashton

[@TableTopMagpie-Lee]

"They fuckin' did it!" mate, I absolutely cracked up at that! 🤣

[@francispham6113]

This was an amazing and comphrensive video, you could not have done a better job! Definitely convinced me to buy :)

[@toaofpi]

I just watched your Tainted Grail review, followed by the second mini review once you finished it, and now this, all back to back, for over two and a half hours of Tainted Grail reviewness. And I still have no idea whether I want to late pledge or not, and if so what to get. But you've done a great job with the videos! Now to go check out other stuff on your channel...

[@yesmadx]

Me too man. I live in another country with strict taxes on importing, so I'm trying to get only the necessary. Which would be either the FOA Expansion, while purchasing the base game here to skip taxes or buy the KOR base w/ stretch goals, that would make an even bigger box with higher change of a big taxes. FOA seems flawed on reviews, but even so, it is well ranked on BGG. Which means that can be a decent fun. Probably. KOR fixes a lot of problems but stands at a higher costs to me, which I don't know if it's worth because I don't own FOA. There is also the chance of a company in my country bringing KOR as retail, as happened with FOA. Tough decision to make.

[@Shelfside]

Be careful when it come to bgg scores for kickstarter exclusive games because that means it got less exposure from the general board game public and instead has inflated scores from people who were either already inclined to like it or are already superfans who keep up with all the kickstarter updates. If you like the aesthetic and story hooks of Tainted Grail, I'd say first and foremost figure out if you like the cardplay, and if you do I'd highly suggest KoR over FoA, which at this point I'd only recommend if it turns out you're a big fan of Tainted Grail and want even more after playing KoR -Daniel@@yesmadx

[@biobauerelke4549]

One of the best videos about boardgames i saw in the last months. WOW! Keep going!

[@roadrunner00721]

Just discovered your channel for this review. You got a new subscriber! Loved the video

[@primusinterpares5767]

So happy for Tainted Grail! Such an impressive improvement!

[@barryc6785]

Put a large 🌞 for start of day & 🌝 for end of day, an ‼️ for triggers at the top of the card

[@Shelfside]

Actually a great suggestion lol -Daniel

[@blizzyblake]

I never thought I'd watch an hour review on a game. You made it interesting and compelling to keep watching! Thank you! I agree with everyone else here, most thorough and interesting review for a game EVER!

[@leviberruezo5862]

First of all, What an amazing video! thank you for your work. I wanted to ask something. I have never played tainted grail and I normally play more dungeon crawlers type of games. Now, should I start with Kings of ruin? or Fall of avalon 2.0? Just because I have heard that there is more encounters on fall of avalon. Thank you in advance!

[@Shelfside]

Good question! We haven't played Fall of Avalon 2.0, so can't speak too much there, but if you're looking for a more streamlined experience, KoR definitely more like that with the less open-world-ness. Again, only speaking from our experience on the prototype :D -Ashton

[@george-dm]

Too fun and enjoyable to watch. Straight to the point with your little touch that gives us really nice reviews. Thank you a lot!

[@Copterman]

Excellent review. You guys should have tons more subscribers. Keep it up!

[@Shelfside]

Much appreciated!

[@jakubmarkiewicz1769]

One of the best review/comparison I seen in long time. Good job Sir.

[@sd3693]

I hope the "Fall of Avalon 2.0" update incorporates some or all of these fixes back into the original game.

[@wolfmathes5684]

great review. wish I had seen this when the game was still available for purchase ^^

[@nathalievazquez4708]

My favorite TG:KoR review by far.

[@adam551982]

So uh, did they make those time narkers congruent? One looked circular and the other was an hr glass. Hope they fixed it.

[@osman_ajmal4011]

First video I've seen of your channel, and this was an amazing review. You've definitely sold me on this game even though I've never heard of it before, and I'm actually considering picking it up now!

[@Shelfside]

awesome to hear! It's definitely an awesome story -Ashton

[@adam551982]

Id like to add how right you were about the trick to writing rulebooks; dont make goofy rules that arent intuitive to begin with. It really is that simple. So many devs make this error and its frustrating to have to continuously read a rule to pound it in to my head bc it is not intuitive at all. Cheers for that comment, ill be repeating it to all these crowd funding devs in the future.

[@_The_Rake]

I have TG: The Fall of Avalon and have yet to play it. I'm wondering how much of the 2.0 changes match the improvements in Kings of Ruin and whether it's worth buying.

[@Shelfside]

Unfortunately we don't know the exact details of the 2.0 changes beyond the component list (new rulebook with new mechanics like fast travel, hundreds of cards to replace old ones), so it's hard to say for sure -Daniel

[@Eric-f4b]

Many complain about the grinding. But geez, do people have no own fantasy to use? What is more easy, to sell a game or use a simple house rule? 🙄

[@PresterJohn19662]

Gréât review, makes me feel better about backing. Never played the original but I had to get it now. Well done

[@dsaashley]

what a superb review. I sold my TG because of the grind. backing this. Any thoughts on whether the update fixes issues in the original campaign

[@vinnieyang5422]

That was amazingly through yet super entertaining!

[@ericdaoust8789]

I never write KZbin comments but thank you for this review, It seems that what I disliked with the original is mostly fixed and what I like (story and combat, yes I really like the combat) stayed.

[@RatWithaTool]

"Huge knight with small horse" got me to tears.

[@samardzicemir]

Great video! I'm only 26 minutes in and you already got a new subscriber :) Quick question, since there are so many pro's over the Fall of Avalon, should I still get FoA (as I really want to)? I would hate it if the gameplay is so different that I ended up not liking it over KoR. Basically, what is the difference between FoA and FoA 2.0 that they are releasing? What will be improved in FoA 2.0, if anyone knows?

[@Shelfside]

Unfortunately don't know, Awaken Realms still hasn't released further details on what 2.0 FoA changes. All they've said is wider generalizations like a fast travel system, less resource costs for less grind, better balance, etc. but no specific details as to what's being changed. -Daniel

[@samardzicemir]

@@Shelfside still sounds good enough to try it out. Thank you!

[@theoverzealouscollector8198]

Great job- just subbed I just bought the first game, does the 2.0 rules for It fixed some of these issues ? Thanks

[@petestead2737]

They are doing a 2.0 update pack in the current kickstarter that addresses some of the grind issues

[@tasujturlaj5272]

Those two-sided location cards, where you can explore both sides - it's like Upside-Down in Stranger Things!

[@Roufus55]

I was 100% excited before this video. Now I'm 10,000% excited.

[@realarete9544]

Wow, great work on this video. Subscribed. Also, digging the new look for TG in the form of KoR.

[@shaynegrieve]

Firstly, one of the most comprehensive and consistently entertaining board game reviews I’ve ever watched. Been hunting for more content just like this. You had me so amped and keen, but knowing the fight mechanics are tedious/repetitive has made me grow ever so slightly skeptical. Do you feel they can tweak this or is the train left the station?

[@Shelfside]

I think it's fine as is if you enjoy it, but I'm someone who found it be meh in the first place, and after finishing the first game, it's just tiring for me personally since there's no fundamental changes. If this is your first Tainted Grail game, I don't see it as an issue since there's drastically less fighting in Kings of Ruin! And even if you do eventually get sick of it, hopefully that's from having a Tainted Grail campaign under your belt lol -Daniel

[@Kelfecil]

Thank you so much for making this HUGE video with so many well-explained criticisms for both pros and cons! We are now 100% sure that Tainted Grail is not for us. We enjoyed Etherfields for the first 5-6 hours (despite how bad the rules and learning them is with the game) but Tainted Grail just feels like "great story, boring mechanics". It was quite clear that you both loved the story in Tainted Grail and that was pretty much it. 😅

[@Ahatch0788]

I think Tainted Grail combat would benefit from being a deck builder like Tainted Grail Conquest

[@jeremyacker7765]

Was recommended your video and it was great, instant subscribe.

[@stevenamamoto585]

Glad to see corrections of things that drove me from the game. For me though I found the world was not one that I wanted to explore.

[@Anarchosyn]

Hah, your 'announcer voice' affectation is pleasant to listen to. Solid preview.

[@travisengland3882]

Will you be doing a review on Tainted Grail Core 2.0?

[@Shelfside]

No plans for it rn, but if Awaken Realms is down, so are we! -Daniel

[@piotrjasik2835]

You need to play ISS Vanguard - yeah it's a different setting, but the writing is on the same level as Tainted Grail, and the gameplay part is literally your suggestion - simplified to dice rolls and map movement, with lots of ways to manipulate the dice. I'm just a couple of sessions in, but I already like it more than Tainted Grail and don't feel like I will skip the gameplay loop just to get to the next story bit

[@Shelfside]

well that sounds awesome. Hyped to play that one! -Ashton

[@Arnikoochak]

Thank you very much! I do hope you review Tanares Adventures sometime!

[@emanuelsantiago6734]

This is what i needed considering the new kickstarter. Idk if fall of avalon 2.0 fixes all the issues with the 1st game but thinking i may back for Kings of Ruin and play Avalon through the future digital version. Either way great work as always

[@tasujturlaj5272]

I usually watched videos at 1,25 speed. Not this one - it's 0,75

[@sluukes]

Love the energy and humour Daniel!

[@williamgarcia-medina9989]

Nice battlestar galáctica poster

[@sharkey1337]

That Pokémon battle at the start sold me on a sub! 😂

[@roodkaak771]

best review of this game bar none. absolutely loved it.

[@SeanUCF]

Curious what you guys think about the video game version compared to the board game version.

[@Shelfside]

I bought conquest a while back during a steam sale but haven't played yet so I may get around to that, but I mostly care about getting the first person fall of avalon cause it looks like tainted grail skyrim edition lol -Daniel

[@SeanUCF]

@@Shelfside Yeah I just saw Fall of Avalon on steam the other day. Looks interesting for sure. I got to spend some time on Conquest recently and it's really good! Basically slay the spire but in more of an open world/Diablo 1 type of setting. Best Deck Builder I've played on PC so far.

[@Maspital]

Would you recommend getting Fall of Avalon with the new 2.0 changes? :) Also, great video!

[@Shelfside]

Cant say for certain at this point because we don't know the specifics, just that the rules have changed and that a bunch of cards are replaced thanks to the component list of the 2.0 upgrade kit (it's just a bunch of cards and a new rulebook) -Daniel

[@F.S.P.73]

This review is gold!

[@CB-yh3db]

Whoa special FX are phenomenal.

[@CarstenBernstorff]

OMG love your review style .... soooooo subbed :) great work

[@Shelfside]

Much appreciated!

[@mateuszkiszlo1059]

Tainted Grail, but now it works!

[@michaelbewick6047]

did they ever release this update in the uk. i cant find it anywhere :/

[@Shelfside]

It's not out yet, but should be shipping to its backers fairly soon iirc, dunno about when/if it hits retail -Daniel

[@kennethdwyer3143]

Exceptional review, great job

[@SarimRune]

Thanks for this. Your critiques of the original game mirror my own exactly. However, I never actually could bring myself to finish it. I don’t suppose there is anything in the new KSer that will improve the original game, retroactively?

[@RolandIronfist13]

Theres an update pack for rules and stuff. You can see it on the page.

[@dextersamson8286]

@@RolandIronfist13 it doesn't update FoA to KoR gameplay. Don't spread misinformation.

[@BradLacke]

@@dextersamson8286 The update pack is designed to improve the old game retroactively…which is literally what OP just asked about. I think you’re confused.

[@DoppelgangerF02]

you guys are GOIN HARD.

[@lp9092]

1) Re: transformed state: “they fuckin’ did it!” Hahaha. 2) great definition on “grinds” and why they can suck.

[@OmfgItsSteven]

Having a bunch of different characters is cool but I don't like to see it coming at the cost of big imbalance issues which seem to be a recurring problem in Awaken Realms games. I also feel that some mechanics such as insanity are just thrown in to be more thematic, but they don't really improve the game well. Pretty awesome at a lot of the other things they changed though, especially reducing the grind!

[@drasher25]

Fantastic review, thank you! I especially appreciated the breakdown of everyone's opinion of the combat system. It struck me as meh in the original and this seems like more of the same. I'm on the fence on this one, and if I do go for it wondering how deep I should go. I'm interested in your opinion on if the monster minis are worth it. Do they hang around on the board for a while or are they just out and back into the box?

[@Shelfside]

They definitely stay around longer than previously cause they can no longer disappear on their own, but if your playstyle involves hunting them down the instant they spawn then the minis may not last that long still lol. I'd say if you love minis then go for it, but otherwise leave them out if their presence doesn't make the vibes better for you -Daniel

[@Filip_eF]

I watched only few minutes. Loving these kind of reviews 😎😎😎👌👌👌

[@wilsonmcwilson4813]

Great review! Thanks a lot!

[@ogeert]

Great review, very good video. Keep it up!

[@BukovTervicz]

This review is so damn good

[@Warlock_-iq7jb]

Amazing review!! Nothing else to say.

[@Shelfside]

Thanks a ton!

[@buhg1]

That is so wierd! The thing you hate the most is actually the reason I backed Kings of Ruin :) - I loved the combat system and diplomacy system in FoA - But me and my wife also had an approach where every combat we did and discussed together.

[@Shelfside]

oh interesting! Yeah I liked it at first, and had a lot of discussion with DAniel on fights, but eventually we just kinda tired of it haha. Can see what you mean! -Ashton

[@Garretlike]

If you wanna try something more niche in regards of dice roll/dice manipulation/card play for combat i recently can recommend Zerywia. It's more of a classic map co-op rpg adventure, but the combat system is sure fun. (at least for me) the rulebook (v1.0) is confusing as hell though. better watch a gameplay video to see what i mean.

[@steveg8984]

You guys do amazing reviews. TY

[@Kindlesmith70]

Difficulty includes both a time and skill. Dark Souls incorportaes both. Do you want run into boss fights to triumph by learning the fight, or do you want to spend time gathering up resources, equipment, and stat increases to make the fight quicker? Your threshold for patience is part of what can make games difficult.

[@jcapo5]

Hi I'm from the future. This game is great and about 4 times the size of that box

[@LunaMirage]

Awesome review!

[@adammills5629]

Best board game review i have ever seen

[@nimblegoat]

Thanks answered a question for newbies - just get the new one only - ie too much rinse and repeat if get both with same similar fight mechanism

[@vlowolvtake1797]

I know it's a stand alone sequel but aren't the story world connected though? I'm afraid that I will want to know more if I only get the new one. I've seen good reviews (maybe even better reviews compared to the core game) of the expansions of the first game. I'm actually (sorta) watching the new Game of Thrones series just for this reason.

[@nimblegoat]

@@vlowolvtake1797 Not sure - I might cave and get both - but my currency has tanked vs USD

[@vlowolvtake1797]

@@nimblegoat Same here...I will probably wait until the very end of the campaign and see in hopes of the currency situation getting any better...for less guilt😂

[@Shelfside]

For connected world, while both take place on the island of Avalon, I can say right now that despite having beaten Fall of Avalon, I have no idea wtf is happening so far in Kings of Ruin lol, obv don't know if there's more lore connections later in the campaign. I do know that Kings of Ruin mentions the Fomorians from the Red Death expansion though -Daniel

[@vlowolvtake1797]

@@Shelfside Thank you Daniel🤩🤩🤩Better calm my anticipation...the games are not even coming until next year!

[@mikedjoons3634]

Love your content guys keep it up! I can highly reccomend sleeping gods for a review.

[@noneyafkn]

Fantastic review 👏

[@bobbucker5891]

Take a shot every time he knocks over that mini without moving it to a safer spot.

[@Shoitaan]

I can't tell if the number of things knocked over is a sign that Daniel has too many things around him or simply that he flails too much XD

[@Shelfside]

Naw, Claudyne the Unknighted is simply in my way -Daniel

[@christianmendoza1126]

Wow I found a new top 3 board reviewer 😂🎉🎉

[@eriksjogren800]

Thanks for the video

[@jaydeestrong]

you are so fun to watch, and they fuckin did it! Hahaha

[@LPDani123]

this made me super interested Can you do Destinies next? :3

[@theclash24]

Grind has been changed...it always has been "the grind" the negative term...when did it become a softer term...

[@justacynic]

I would thank you for the review except now I think I should back the campaign, which my budget doesn’t really appreciate. 😉

[@fergman3690]

Sooo.. with the new upgrade kit in the current KS, does this alleviate the problems for the original? Rememdy the grind etc? Be shame to lose out on the narrative of the original..

[@Shelfside]

I'm sure it will, but by how much and what specific changes there are we won't know yet for a while. iirc they only announced that resource grind is reduced, rebalanced a bunch of cards and mechanics, and that there will be fast travelling -Daniel

[@Tharukan]

Alright, might even get this. Always thought AR Games are games for almost the price of a game with tons of minis but without tons of minis and thus a bad deal, but I got so many minis coming I don't care about that as much anymore. Also thought about getting the Fall of Avalon 2.0, but while it will be better, I don't think they can introduce all these fixes with just rules changes, they would have to change core components, which won't happen. I wanna experience the story of FoA first, but I don't think it's worth it to pay an additional ~150 € for a still suboptimal experience.

[@fy8798]

The idea that "tons of minis" is "value" is inherently pretty clueless and one of the big things holding back the hobby. The reality is that mounds of minis are cheap. Ignorant people just THINK of them as value, so the minis get used to pretty much trick them into getting stuff that's really much cheaper but can be used to overcharge fools. The real value in a game is the gameplay content.

[@Tharukan]

​@@fy8798 The idea that what you personally deem valuable is the objective definition of value is what I'd call clueless. Minis do have value for me and many different people, be it in increased immersion, to paint or to simply collect. The notion that minis are cheap to produce is, in most instances, just plain wrong. It generally is one of the biggest cost factors in mini board games. In addition, you are either moving the goal posts or were not able to understand what I was saying at all. I was quite clearly not speaking about a game that removed gameplay content and added in minis INSTEAD, I was argueing that a lot of games have as much gameplay content as AR titles IN ADDITION TO tons of minis, f. e. Arena: The Contest/ Tanares Adventures, Stormsunder and tons of others. Lastly, calling people on the internet clueless and ignorant because they hold a different opinion to yours, or in this case, you utterly midunderstood their opinion, is quite a dickish thing to do. YOU are what is holding this hobby back. Cheers.

[@DanieltheFink]

Awww hell. I shouldn't have watched this. Was just going to complete my FoA collection during this campaign. But now I really want KoR. Curse you Shelfside!

[@nifarious]

So...thorough.

[@jericosha2842]

Really like the look of this, but the combat style isn't my thing. I'll stick to good adult fantasy novels if want a good story.

[@vojkobaumanspoon]

Great video :D

[@Shelfside]

Thanks! 😁