Take the Perfect Moon Shot with the Sony A7R IV (or other System Camera)

[@blueckaym]

The APS-C (ie Super-35) mode is only for convenience it doesn't really affect the end image resolution of the Moon itself, just that the surroundings are cropped-out. If you shoot at 61mp and then crop the same frame you'll get the same result. However for a Moon shot (or similar shot where the subject takes rather small part of the frame and the background is irrelevant) the APS-C-mode can be more convenient especially when focusing, because the display & viewfinder will magnify the subject more and it'll be little easier to pin-point focus (at least if manual focusing). Another interesting thing is the x2TC performance. I have both x1.4 & x2 TCs and in my opinion (shooting on a7rII & 2.8/70200GM) the optical magnification of the x2TC is hardly noticeable (if at all) compared to a x1.4 shot that's digitally zoomed to match the x2 TC shot. I've heard sometimes its performance depends on the camera too ... no sure if that's true ... or perhaps there's higher production quality variance of the x2TC and I got a bad unit ... Also the sensor's resolution might be a factor to the TCs performance - for example a lower-res sensor that can't resolve too much on its own might benefit more from additional x2 optical zoom even if that optical zoom is far from perfect; while a very high res sensor like the a7rIV might be better with optically better results from x1.4 TC since it can resolve 2.5 times better than the standard 24mp sensors. Anyway I'll be curious to get your opinions since now there're more lenses compatible with these TCs and probably more people tested different combos. I'm currently considering upgrade to the a7rIV and also eyeing the SEL200600G (f5.6-6.3) which would definitely make me play with the Moon again :) Btw what's really challenging in the Moon-photography is to make a shot that also have some interesting background, and it becomes especially difficult to expose and focus for both the Moon and the background (I guess image stacking is acceptable in such cases :)) If you're interested here're two of my Moon-shots (with above a7rII + 2.8/70200GM & x1.4TC & x2.0TC) photos.app.goo.gl/9UtahhuKAM3GoeGq9 (w/ x1.4TC ƒ/8 1/50 280mm ISO100) photos.app.goo.gl/LbGCy1GR2Lkwxhu67 (w/2.0TC ƒ/9 1/60 400mm ISO100) These were my very early attempts so probably there're many things to improve. Anyway, really nice video with plenty of details! Keep it up Math! :)

[@MrFloris]

Finally ❤ the video i was looking for. Perfect explanation I recently got myself the ar7v and 35mm lens. And am looking to get a nice zoom to also rake those sky and moon shots. And some wildlife. And this video is almost the same setup. And does what i want to do. Thank you

[@blueckaym]

I also use the APS-C (aka Super 35) mode when I shoot the moon or other small target, but it's important to know that it's not a magnification ratio, but just a crop ratio. You can shoot full-frame and crop in post processing and get exactly the same result. What the APS-C/Super35 mode is useful for (in stills) is that your camera screen/viewfinder shows only that crop size part of the sensor so focusing can sometimes be easier, though I think the focus peeking actually appears to be lower magnification ratio compared to ff-mode, haven't compared them exactly but I think it's exactly the same, but for APS-C it's reduced by the "magnification" you already have by cropping. So use the Super35 mode only for convenience (if it is so for you) and eventually to reduce file size (you can also switch the aspect ratio to 1:1 to crop even further in, but it's still just that - cropping - not magnification!)

[@andrewlee6152]

Absolutely correct. You gain absolutely nothing using aps-c mode.. You have a full frame camera, cropping it changes nothing, apart from the file size.. Stick with the full frame and crop the image later.. same thing... Pixel shift is clever, but not quite as accurate as many wish it was

[@andrewlee6152]

oh and aps-c is really for using lenses desoigned for that size of sensor... and there is a huge chooice of sony and other third party lenses for aps-c format, usualyy one heck of a lot cheaper than their full frame counterparts

[@chrislauterbach8856]

6/21/2024 I recent bought a DSC-HX99 as a replacement for a damaged DSC-500. Tonight we had a nice bright full moon. I use the unit mostly for B roll footage for my videos. But I wanted a moon photo. I had the darndest time finding the proper settings and only got over lit imagess. Your video led me to settings that were similarly available so I followed them on the Sony HX-99. They worked and I am grateful for your direction. The camera has 30x zoom which is 720mm on this unit. Obviously the shots will never achieve what a full frame camera with a zoom lens can do, but the goal was to keep testing my new camera's capabilities. I am primarily a videographer and know the value of likes and comments on YT. So I made sure to add a .

[@Maximka1100]

Very good video, specially for beginner moon photographers. I wonder if you familiar with Lunar 11 rule? It always works great. I agree, the auto focus is the best way to go for the moon. Thanks for your effort.

[@Tinfoilnation]

As we move into winter you might wait for some cold, still, *dry* air and then attempt a 4x pixel shift. I wouldn't expect it to work, the Earth is rotating at ~1600km/hr and the air is moving so the 16x has no chance, but I suspect it might be do-able at 4x. The cumulative delay between 1st frame and last will be 0.75 seconds (0.25 between each frame with first frame at 0) and we move ~0.00015 degrees in that time. Kick up the shutter speed to ~1/500ths or so and I think it might work. I'm going to try it but no guarantee I'll get good conditions so I'd like to see others try it as well.

[@mathphotographer]

Your idea is excellent but think also your assessment why this might not work is very reasonable too. Winter is in front of our doors, let's see & thx for suggesting. When you got it done, can you let me know pls and post the result? I will do the same on my end, if I find a good weather and moon night and get it done, I will post it on my channel.

[@orbitaljellyfish808]

It would be cool to see what the 16x looked like even if it was a disaster 👏👏

[@KetansaCreatesArt]

Did you try it? 🤔

[@Tinfoilnation]

@@KetansaCreatesArt Conditions - I live in the Seattle area and this time of year getting clear and *dry* conditions within a day or two of the full moon is exceedingly difficult, that's why I've been hoping others might try it just to see if it's possible. :p

[@KetansaCreatesArt]

@@Tinfoilnation Ok, I thought may be you got a chance to try within three weeks after this comment ☺️ Me will try too

[@max74239]

Wow, these instructions sure helped me take a perfect moon shot. All I was getting before seeing this tutorial was one big bright blob. Thank you.

[@averydonald6129]

i know Im randomly asking but does someone know a way to log back into an Instagram account..? I stupidly lost the account password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me

[@conorleroy2362]

@Avery Donald Instablaster ;)

[@averydonald6129]

@Conor Leroy Thanks for your reply. I got to the site thru google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now. Takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@averydonald6129]

@Conor Leroy It worked and I finally got access to my account again. Im so happy:D Thanks so much you saved my ass :D

[@conorleroy2362]

@Avery Donald Happy to help =)

[@MisterGerdy]

What an excellent tutorial. Cannot wait to replicate on the A7Rii, 200-600 lens and CIZ. Not sure if it worth £480 for the 1.4x Teleconverter just for Moon photos. Talk about pushing the boundaries :)

[@kkonstantinosss2]

Does the APS-C zoom really do anything other than not use the full sensor? Isn't it just cropping out empty space? Would using a 600mm lens with the 2x teleconverter work or would it produce a blurry/weird image?

[@bunyaadi]

I always learn quite a bit from your videos. The content is always concise and direct to the point. Personally I would like to do a bit of astrophotography and sone captures of near by galaxies. Recently I watched a video where the person used a fuji gfx100 to photograph the moon through a telescope and t2/lens mount adapter. I was impressed but in general I need to learn to crawl before I walk. Really i just want to be able to capture the moon without using AI to compensate for minuscule lenses. Always an education. Dance schön.

[@familyschaeffer8348]

Thank you for the nice video. Curious if you can leverage Sony's pixel shift technology for a much higher MP count and then crop to end up with higher resolution? I don't know how long it takes to employ the pixel shift process, but I suppose if it's longer than say 20-30 seconds you'll introduce too much motion blur from the rotation of the earth? Also, can you end up with a higher MP count if you choose to keep it in FF and crop, versus throwing it in APS-C? Very nice photos.

[@mathphotographer]

Excellent suggestion, is on my agenda for winter time when we get clear nights. I see the same challenges you mentioned but let's see. If I manage to get reasonable results, I will post it on my channel during winter season.

[@brianhoskins1979]

Thanks! I have been learning to take photographs of the moon myself for a little while so not a massive amount of information here for me, still I got some little hints and tips - it's good to see how someone else does things and pick up on the odd thing here and there. With respect to the APS-C mode though, I am struggling to see the value here. I understand the 1.5x crop factor but for me this is exactly equivalent to cropping the final image yourself in post. The only advantage I can see is that since you know you will definitely crop moon photographs anyway, the APS-C mode is saving you the bother by doing it at the same time as the shot. The clear image zoom though... I actually had no idea about that and I see that it _is_ available in my camera. I've never seen it because I always shoot in RAW+JPEG by default. So this is one of the hints I picked up. Cheers!

[@Djk0t]

warming up for full moon. My first one if weather permits.

[@rghurst]

Using crop mode DOES NOT add any magnification. The moon (or any other subject) is that same size in pixels in the crop mode as it is in full-frame mode. You are simply cropping in camera instead of in post.

[@Djk0t]

So cropping in camera is not better?

[@rghurst]

@@Djk0t It is better if you are trying to save storage space ... or if you want to be able to shoot more shots without filling up the buffer. But it doesn't get you any closer to your subject, and it makes tracking moving subjects harder because your field of view through the viewfinder is reduced. There are lots of reasons to use the crop mode of a full-frame camera, but it getting more reach (magnification) isn't one of them.

[@Djk0t]

rghurst thank you for the reply. Very useful. Can you elaborate on the reasons you would use crop mode other than file size or the ability to monitor what is moving I to the frame ?

[@mathphotographer]

The APS-C setting in the camera menu is a crop and here you are right, cropping in-camera or in post-processing does not make a difference. Where it makes a difference is when it comes to magnification via Sony's Clear Image Zoom (CIZ). CIZ is a digital enhancement algorithm that delivers better results than just cropping-in in post-processing, I tried it and the CIZ algo is better and delivers better enhancement than just cropping in LR or PS. I though I mentioned this in the video.

[@EdgarHernandez-xj5mx]

Djk0t it depends. If you’re trying to frame an image when you shot it you can shot in cropped mode. For example sports, framing matters and you need extra reach. So it’s useful there. But shooting cropped is basically just zooming in digitally or cropping. The same as if you did it after the fact.

[@mlzs_]

Do you follow the starship program?

[@karlz9086]

Great work.. Excellent..👍👍👍👍👍👍😳😳

[@cdavey7654]

Some interesting ideas, though I don't think I'd try to shoot that long of a lens with those slow of shutter speeds, especially handheld. I'd probably use a tripod and faster shutter speeds with a shutter delay of at least 5 seconds and no wind. :)

[@ulfathussain1140]

Very nice tutorial,thanks for sharing. 👍🏽

[@LordArioh]

15:14 I was like WHAT? It's like 0.2 atoms of hydrogen per cubic cm on the Moon surface )) I usually go for the Moon on a cold clear nights with APS-C Canon and Sigma 150-600mm which gives me 960mm total of 24mpx. Comes out pretty much the same) Nice shot there.

[@mathphotographer]

Thanks & agree, I did moon shots with various cameras in the past, and APS-C cameras can produce very nice and detailed moon shots. The Sigma 150-600 is an excellent lens, I had once the opportunity to try it out.

[@paulaoakes3566]

Great tutorial, very clear! Do you think I can get a picture of the moon using the Sony GM FE 70-200mm and a 2X converter?

[@shaolin95]

Dont waste your money. Enlarging in post will give better IQ than using a 2x converter

[@Olppa]

@@shaolin95 no it won't

[@PrabuRcCars]

Thanks for sharing, i juts got A7R4 last week

[@extreme6productions507]

In general how do you like the A7RIV with the 70-200?

[@davidbodine6465]

Great tutorial, thanks

[@IMGDirect]

Whaaat?!?! That’s crazy. Awesome!

[@richardbarakett4163]

Thank you very much for this tutorial :)

[@armandot9137]

Instead of applying noise reduction, have you tried to take quite a few shots, and average them on photoshop just like you would do in astrophotography? You could afford to stop down even further or up the shutter speed

[@stephendenagy3396]

Would have been nice to show crops of details so we can see how magnificent the technique is. Hi res viewed on 1080p KZbin is a visual oxymoron!

[@mathphotographer]

Agree, I always suffer from reduced resolution on KZbin, in particular when I try to show 150MP images in my Phase One videos.

[@hr3178]

How do you hand hold 800mm (or even 1200 or 2400mm) at 1/200? I have a Nikon d7200 with a Sigma 100-400mm, so this also is about 800mm as well. I have to boost the iso usually to 1600 or 3200 to get a decent result in terms of blur. Probably the image stabilization in the Sony lens together with the Ibis of the camera helps, but that much? Impressive.

[@Francisco_Otero]

IBIS and OSS combo is a very solid combo.

[@Tinfoilnation]

IBIS+OSS work together (the lens and the body split the job) I've hand-held the A7RIV + 200-600G + 1.4TC + APSC mode at an effective focal length 1,260mm down to 1/320th without issue. Fewer keepers, but that's due mostly to your subject moving, not your own camera shake. I didn't try lower because it was a perched eagle and they tend to "move" even when they appear to be holding still.

[@mathphotographer]

1/200 seconds works well hand-hold with the described focal length since the stabilizers in-camera and in-lens cooperate well.

[@chongyulius]

Moon is an incredibly bright object in night sky and a very fast shutter is needed -- So shaking from hand makes much less impact. I once used 1/1600 sec and it doesn't really matter if you use a tripod anymore

[@caseyjordan9513]

Regarding the aperature being f16, I thought the Riv was diffraction limited above f8, so youd lose a lot of sharpness at f16?

[@mathphotographer]

Diffraction effect is minimal and not destroying sharpness or clarity at f/16. You can safely use it.

[@magendhirannarainasamy2228]

Very informative

[@STxFisherman]

Great video! I use my A7RIV camera for time lapse imaging of the night sky and never delved into other night sky photography before. I now have a better understanding of the settings and enjoyed your clear explanation of the camera features. Thanks for the great information!

[@locker1964]

Very well described, wouldn't it be better to photograph in black and white ?

[@mathphotographer]

Yes you could. But choosing B&W in camera will be give or take the same as converting in B&W in post-processing - if I am not mistaken. So far only the Leica M Monochrom is a native sensor-driven B&W camera as far as I know, and for Leica you will not find a suitable tele lens. Thanks for your positive feedback.

[@Djk0t]

As KZbin does not do justice to the quality of any photo. It would be helpful if you could make the final pictures to download and compare. I am an amateur photographer fascinated by moon Astro & macro photography. Currently shooting Fuji with the 100-400 + 1.4x but the Sony a7r4 is a beast for technical photography. I would be very keen to compare your shot with the Fuji. I actually live in Zurich myself so Gruezi.

[@mathphotographer]

Good idea, in particular on my 150MP Phase One videos a download link would help people to better understand what high resolution really means. I did not go for that option in the past since from time to time I sell photos and then I do not want to have them in a download linked area - but might consider going forward for non-sales-relevant photos like the moon. Gruezi ebenfalls & happy Sunday :)

[@Djk0t]

mathphotographer thank you for the reply. That’s exactly what I meant. Do you sell photo books or individual pictures?

[@gurupreetsingh3408]

Thanks 🙏🏻

[@blueckaym]

15:12 "... probably from the air around the Moon" :D Did you learn that technique from Peter Lik and his famous 'single shot' image of the Moon INFRONT of some clouds? ;) Sorry I just couldn't resist it :) That's a great instructional video!

[@EstorilSport]

Can you make available the finished image that you took with this configuration, thank you.

[@mathphotographer]

What do you need it for?

[@EstorilSport]

@@mathphotographer I want to see if adding the 2X converter provides a noticeable difference with the iamge once added. Seeing the images on KZbin is not a good representation. they look quite poor due to the KZbin compression.

[@jonyq04]

How about you avoid the 1.5 super 35 crop and kept the 61 mp... 1600 mm at that resolution should be absolutely amazing

[@chongyulius]

You probably miss understood the idea of 1.5 super cropping...It merely dumped the rims (in this case, blank sky background on the rims) of the picture, and kept the center of the image with original resolution. Using or not using 1.5 crop will have 0 impact on the final resolution in the center part of this moon shot image.

[@jonyq04]

When you use your A7r camera in súper 35 mode, you are no longer using the 61 mp it offer, you are using something like 30 mp

[@chongyulius]

@@jonyq04 That is correct, it is using the 30MP in the CENTER on the original CMOS, not by dumping pixels across the entire sensor, they are 2 different concepts. It has zero impact on the moon itself. How about you try it yourself and see the difference? I did my own... I hope it helps

[@jonyq04]

I get it now. Thanks

[@jonathanwong880]

Superb! thank you

[@mathphotographer]

Thanks Jonathan.

[@Zhorellski]

Clear image zoom works only in Jpg?

[@mathphotographer]

Yes, in general any digital zoom is greyed out in Sony full frame camera settings when you activate RAW.

[@Djk0t]

Following your instruction I posted my version from last night on instagram where I tagged you. I used an fuji xe3 wiht the 100-400 + 1.4 tc. Processed on C1. I am tsakkosi

[@erikm9768]

Pretty much exactly the same results i got on my Canon 7D + 120/400mm Sigma more than 10 years ago, you'd think camera tech / moon photography would have made an improvement over a decade..

[@hajime5486]

Just so everyone knows if you didn't before a APS-C sensor is 2/3 the size of Full Frame. Super 35 turns a FF into a artificial APS-C and also down sizes your Mega Pixels.

[@pawelmod3292]

2/3 ?? hmm… FF is 36mm x24mm = 864 APS-C is 22mm x 15mm = 330 so apsc is 38% of ff, not 66% (2/3) as you have mentioned. or ff is 260% of apsc.

[@Kolomy24]

Can't believe that properly processed raw looks worse than pushed up jpeg image. And if you care about picture quality why shoot handheld at 1200mm 1\200? You know better i guess)

[@shaolin95]

When someone doesnt know what he is doing, a JPG may indeed look better than their raw :/

[@chongyulius]

Moon is an incredibly bright object in night sky and a very fast shutter is needed, meaning it doesn't care if you shakes a little or not with your hand. I once used 1/1600 sec shutter and it doesn't really matter if you use a tripod or not, you can try it

[@shaolin95]

Clear Zoom is NOT SUPERIOR to doing it post. You are misinforming your audience. Any plug in to enlarge like Topaz Gigapixel or even the one built in Photoshop will produce FAR better results than using Clear Zoom. The only time clear zoom does not degrade image is when used on video with a prime lens. Also, the x2 adapter is again just a waste of money. Plenty of tests show that it does worse than enlarging in post. The only reason to use it is if you want to save time but you ARE losing IQ. And of course, aps-c mode is just crop so is no different from cropping in post in terms of image quality. You should correct all these errors so people do not use this wrong information.

[@Jonners]

You called it a dslr. 🙄

[@mathphotographer]

Yes - mistake / good catch on your side.

[@ancientfishing]

Just use the p1000 and the 3000mm instead.

[@Tinfoilnation]

Seriously? You could hold a cell phone up to a $100 department store telescope and get better results.

[@Vighnesh-2017]

I have own p1000 and A9+200-600mm for moon. P1000 definitely a great camera for moon. However, A9 images are handy for post processing etc. P1000 is great for videos than stills of Jupiter, Saturn etc though.

[@bacamma]

JUST WASTED MY TIME TO WATCH YOU EXPLAIN YOUR CAMERA....