Taking Math Out Of Woodworking | 6 Tips and Tricks to Eliminate Math & Measuring from your Projects!

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In this video we are talking about the times in woodworking and furniture making that we are able to take math and measurements out of the equation. Math and precise measurements can often be a difficult hurdle for new woodworkers, so we wanted to show how we often are able to complete certain tasks with very little math by using alternative techniques. Some of the topics we cover are order of operations, building trapezoidal boxes, router inlays, accurate dados, and incorporating angles into furniture.
REFERENCED VIDEOS
Chris' - • How To Build Mid Centu...
Shaun's Trigonometry Video - • Making Non-90 Degree M...
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False Startz - Noir Et Blanc Vie
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Late Truth - Audio Hertz
Space Navigator - Sarah, The Illstrumentalist
Stars and Constellations - Sarah, The Illstrumentalist

[@lokinya]

When I worked on expensive yacht interior my most accurate tool for dealing with weird shaped walls, shelves, floors etc, was... some scrap wood and a pointy slat. A bit like a stair spider, but simpler with drawing some lines on the scrap wood and slat so you can transfer it.

[@garrydye2394]

I just found this channel, as crazy as that might seem, but has quickly become my favorite woodworking channel...and not just by a little. Totally different "useful and needed" information then what others are pumping out. Excellent content.

[@dimensionswoodworks]

This is something all of us come to learn over time. Repeatability comes from control of constants and that’s rarely found with a tape measure. Thanks for helping out the newbs that are intimidated by all those calculations and hopefully they’ll be more likely to tackle a project they otherwise wouldn’t have. 👍🏻

[@SpecificLove7]

Thank you for this video. It makes me feel much better when I cannot hit the perfect angle.

[@TeddyMonacelli]

Fantastic video guys. Made me feel better about how often I need to deviate from a plan and adjust to the circumstance.

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

you should feel good about that. In fact, I'd argue...if you don't deviate from the plan...you're probably doing things wrong :)

[@mascatrails661]

Love that drillbit technique... I'll definitely be using it soon. With some training in engineering, I used to strongly believe in the old adage, "measure twice, cut once"... Then I did some work with a carpenter with 30+ years experience, and so often he'd mark from actual pieces rather than measurements and sneak up on certain fits, measuring once and cutting 3-5 times... It really helped me bridge the gap between design and manufacture. We once built a deck together and I was getting all worked up about the length of the posts we were burying, the depth of the holes, setting things plumb. He taught me to throw all that out the window and just set string lines to get the posts well aligned and establish level with the the next set of beams, then move towards square with the next layer of joists, align the floorboards as well as possible, but only really worry about square when trimming the excess off the floorboards. It's fine to aim to get every cut and joint as perfect as possible, but having the skill to make it work despite slight discrepancies in the measurements, that's what really sets the craftsman apart.

[@jscgrey1]

One of the best woodworking videos ever!!! Seriously... May be simple truths, but you effectively reduced my level of stress and bumped my production speed and joy. Isn't that what it's all about :) A good friend got me into woodworking over the last couple of years and he repeated something like "it's not about making mistakes, it is about your ability to resolve them..." Thanks 4I's

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

yup...that's very true...I still make multiple mistakes in every project. They just become less and less noticeable.

[@adayco]

Those suggestions were helpful, inspirational and a great way to avoid the desperation of chasing a number. Some of my Uncle Melvin’s best work was created using a Stanley folding ruler, a scribe, a sharp pencil, a few sticks and the patience to know sneaking up on a cut was proven to be the best way for him when making furniture. He built a bunch of houses over the years, which close was good enough when framing. It really comes down to patience and a little confidence. They both grow over time, with a little patience. Oh yeah... Thank you for sharing. Great video.👍

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Thank you...appreciate it. And as the old saying goes. "If its good enough for Uncle Melvin...it's good enough for me" - ok, that's not a saying...but it should be :)

[@michelevitarelli]

This is one of the most educational videos on woodworking that I have ever seen. Thanks for sharing. Great attitude.

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Thanks Michele :)

[@davidm3225]

Here’s some interesting math for you: the Chris Salomone / Shaun Boyd collabs are a great example of something being greater than the sum of its parts, not that the parts aren’t awesome on their own of course :-D

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Synergy bruh :P

[@cschlater]

+1

[@dkedavid]

Some superadditivity!

[@David-xu3yk]

I've never even thought about the plunge router trick! AMAZING video as always!

[@shaunb66]

So simple, but so effective!

[@csylvester123]

The caliper vs woodpecker scene had me in hysterics...you guys are awesome. Super valuable info here. I was painfully revisiting trigonometry on a project the same day you guys released this. Relieved to know it's not as necessary as I previously assumed.

[@cesarvalle79]

This one of the most useful videos,tips for me at least. I’m always so intimidated by not getting the mesures right, sometimes to the point of leaving a project aside for some time...I know . But thank you both!

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Yeah, it can be intimidating...but knowing how unimportant many of them are, hopefully will get you to take the plunge :)

[@keithkolbo2735]

Thank you. I was just learning this on my own, particularly, moving the fence as little as possible. Everything that has to be cut X inches should be cut with one setup. It helps a lot. Thanks for all the other situations. You also explained how to use a kerf maker tool. Many thanks.

[@martinrandez7021]

This is one of the best videos on your Channel! The editing is so creative and you guys are a lot of fun to watch!! Immensely inspiring :)

[@andrewbrown8148]

That was GREAT~! I'm shooting this video out to several friends that are getting started in woodworking. Really good concept to avoid getting too wrapped up in the numbers of it all...where applicable~! I always look forward to your individual videos, but those with both of you in it them just take the cake~! Love the way you play/feed off of each other. Always very instructional, informational, inspiring, and entertaining~! (That last one interfered with my having a fourth "i" for FourEyes~!) Keep it coming, fellas~!!

[@DuncanEdwards.]

Fantastic lads, keep it up, loving the irony with banter and humour

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

will do :)

[@SecondSonWoodworks]

Awe man, this was a really informational video. Thanks for sharing! I love the dynamic between the two of you!

[@andrewcignoni3901]

Love this! The illustrations really help. Thank you.

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Thanks Andrew :)

[@alhixson]

I'm glad you expressed this axiom in such distilled and synthesized fashion - I'm really just beginning in woodworking, but you've MODELED this for a long time, and I've worked hard to use relative dimensions just by observation of your channel. Thanks for the good work. This tip was CAUGHT not TAUGHT. Until you taught it. Then it got both'ed.

[@shaunb66]

Glad we could both it for you! Thanks for watching Aaron!

[@toonybrain]

LOVE the mid-century trapezoidal piece! Beautiful. Great inlay setup. Thanks for all the info.

[@simonh73]

You two make a good team! I like the presentation style when you're working together.

[@mjfister]

You guys are fun to watch - the banter and trade-off is entertaining. Two to add for future that we woodworkers often use - 'spacers' and 'story sticks/poles'.... keep the videos coming Best, Mike

[@AdamSpencerKirkland]

Yep... I agree with the other comments. The collab videos with you two are so good. Stoked to see what you guys do next.

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Thanks Adam...lots of plans for this year :)

[@furthernorthfab]

I do math for a living and still get messed up when I try to use actual measurements vs relative measurements.

[@tbobbobs7606]

Because math doesn't care about your human numbers.

[@unknownentity330]

You guys rock. The editing is off the charts as well. Super channel!

[@Jay2525Jay]

Thank you for sharing your skills and time with us.

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Thanks Jared...appreciate it :)

[@raminciorbea4276]

Made me smile, and educated me in the same time. Thank you guys.

[@tangotango3406]

Obviously a bit late, but just stumbled upon one of the best (informatively and comedic) videos I’ve seen from you guys yet. Haha! Great post and thank you for taking your time to do these videos! 🙏🏻

[@robira1313]

You guys are awesome. Love your use of graphics and video editing! (but not the intra-video commercials) You're the real deal! You've earned yourself a subscriber!

[@austin3285]

I do math for a living, and really enjoyed this one!

[@ianpearse4480]

Nice one guys, like the concept. Being old and as blind as a bat not measuring is a great idea, thanks.

[@jbb5470]

Great topic and discussion. Your video skills are improving by leaps and bounds. Just better and better. Always look forward to watch you produce next! Keep them coming.

[@shaunb66]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!

[@farshadbagheri]

Fantastic video. Very practical.

[@scottm9605]

Great video! I really enjoy this way of thinking and working. I know for the pieces I make, there is usually only one critical dimension (must fit in x space). Everything else can be approximate so long as they are uniform. An excellent book on this is "By hand and eye". Imo a must for anyone making furniture.

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Good point. I usually start my drawings with a box of the finished size...then I just kind of draw within those constraints...for this exact reason.

[@scottm9605]

@@Foureyes.Furniture It's very freeing to not have to worry every single dimension to death. Moreover as you point out, it leads to tighter joinery and better craftsmanship.

[@MrJKellerLewis]

Every time you guys release a video of makes my morning! Nice video and way to diversify your content

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

:)

[@ThrakattaK]

Brilliant video fellas. Very enjoyable to watch.

[@thecurmudgeon5241]

One of the difficulties, as illustrated by you cutting all of the similar parts with the same fence setting, is that our ability to translate a measurement into a real world object with perfect accuracy is limited. Of course you use the measurement as a starting point, but you also have the common sense to know that you've not translated that measurement perfectly. The more I fool around in my shop, the more aware I am of this inadequacy, and the more aware I am of how I need to pay attention to the actual object I've created as I move forward in any particular build. Great job guys.

[@urwholefamilydied]

0:02 oh badass guys. I'm from Michigan and Utah. Digging the Jazz and Tiger's hats.

[@TracksWithDax]

Oh man guys, I was sitting there refreshing firefox all day yesterday after hearing about this episode on the podcast. Nice!

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Sorry for the delay :)

[@JamieKnowles35]

What a great video. I can get bogged down in the dimensions of things.

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

those are all just suggestions :)

[@BillHartCooks.]

Good Video! Mathematics is a theoretical approach to understanding the real world. Some mathematics do not even have a real world analog, they are purely theoretical. Wood working is real. Very Real. You Guys are two of the most real guys on youTube.

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Yeah we are....keeping it real :)

[@SpencleyDesignCo]

Great video as always boys!

[@Engstreet]

I like seeing you both together.

[@dinkyshopYT]

Reference measuring. Helpful animations. Thanks!

[@williamellis8993]

Great video. There's a lot of info even for experienced woodworkers even if it's just a reminder. I did, however, miss the requisite game of scrapsketball.

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

we had a lot of talking hit the cutting room floor. But not a lot of wood hitting the workshop floor in this one :)

[@GopherWoodshop]

Guys, this video is hilarious, love the one upping of the tools at the end.

[@ctvwrest]

Fantastic video thanks!

[@scottsimpey2965]

Great video. Taking the completely out of something that should be simpler and straightforward.

[@marky5071]

This is great. Thank you

[@_tim]

I love this message. It fits right in line with how my brain works.

[@mattstegall]

As usual, great video. You could make content on just about any subject and it would be enjoyable. Thanks for being on KZbin

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Thanks man...let's see if you still feel the same after the CES video finally comes out :)

[@Eric.Mercado]

Fantastic video gentlemen! Seriously. 👏 👏 👏 Content. Visuals. Audio. Commentary. Humor.

[@Woodengully]

Loved you guys. You're awesome

[@richardgroom988]

A really enjoyable way of getting totally confused Thanks

[@shaunb66]

Glad it was enjoyable!

[@Shaun42wild]

When I first saw the title of this video I though I will watch this but I'm sure I won't agree with you, after watching it, I agree fully. Great video thanks :-)

[@larrymorrissey2222]

Love your videos guys, keep up the good work, I look forward to the next instalment of hilarity in the workshop

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Thanks Larry :)

[@skipmcgrath]

this is a great video. In this digital age people forget that wood is organic and is particularly prone to the second law of thermodynamics; the law of entropy. Wood is constantly swelling, shrinking, warping and bending. No matter how accurate your measurements and angles are, if you cut all your parts today, those angles and measurements will not be the same when you come back to assemble them tomorrow. A real craftsman knows how to make things look like regular shapes when in fact they are not. I always tell my helpers that if all houses were square, level and plumb there would be no need for carpenters. One could just order the things from a factory and take them home. I do custom cabinets and kitchens, and whenever possible I use story boards, full size templates, marking in place and scribing to deal with complex measurements and angles. And when everything is installed, Blum hardware is cleverly designed to be able to let you tweek the fit of all the doors and drawers. For the customer it is more important that things look coherent that actually be numerically accurate.

[@johnfisher4910]

You guys crack me up :) Very jealous of that square collection.

[@MrBlankNJones]

Love the woodworking tips and the great balance between comedy and information delivery

[@shaunb66]

Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!

[@brunoschmidt6824]

Great!! Thank YOU!!!!

[@EPortillo5000]

You just need to accept Pythagoras as your lord and saviour to do the trapezoidal boxes calculations 😁😁😁😁😁

[@shaunb66]

You have to sell your soul to get it just right.

[@Kobe29261]

There must have been two guys around the ice-age just like you, even their cousins didn't know about them! What a time to be alive!

[@Ski3HigH]

That stop motion shot was slick 👌

[@danthemakerman]

Take that Mrs. Forbes, my 11th grade Trigonometry teacher, I told her I didn't need to learn Trig because I would never use it in real life and now thanks to you guys I never will!!!!

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

She sent me a DM this morning....she was not happy

[@danthemakerman]

@@Foureyes.Furniture LOL!!!!

[@JeffsCustomRC]

Great video guys, always nice to see other ways of skinning cats lol, or thinking outside the out of square box, or......well I guess you get it , always learn here, thanks guys 👍🏼👍🏼

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Thanks Jeff :)

[@garagemonkeysan]

Awesome video, great editing and information. Mahalo for sharing! : )

[@shaunb66]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!

[@theIntuitionist]

Some seriously good information in this video

[@javiergarrido1980]

exelent tricks guys, congratulations!!! i always learn newest thinks with your tutorials, keep teaching please

[@hoganmaughan3273]

I've never been envious, but seeing that Chris has like $1K in woodpeckers measuring devices, alone, makes me a little green...with you know.... ;)

[@robira1313]

I know. I could not bring myself to spend $80 on a 6-inch Woodpecker square.

[@kinggbp]

That layout you create at 2:20 would be a super helpful tool. Are there any special tools to simplify that process or for mapping out cuts on sheet goods?

[@richardbenson4750]

I really like the "duet" and the interactive comedy that you guys do in addition to bringing very informative videos.

[@shaunb66]

Appreciate it, Richard! We have fun making these videos.

[@robertbrewer2055]

Great video. It really makes you think outside the box 😉

[@bebekguitar2007]

the end of this video cracks me up. Also, thx for the tips!

[@ADVBear]

Fantastic video, congrats, guys.

[@eatdrinkwineguy]

This was great. I spent today in the workshop agonizing getting a small speaker with beveled edges right. Realise I just totally did it the wrong way. Light bulb moment.

[@shaunb66]

Always a good feeling when you have that "a ha!" moment!

[@andriesmatthijs1215]

Nice new video! Greetings from Belgium👍

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Greetings :)

[@HyperactiveNeuron]

LOL that was awesome! At first I was like WTF! I'm a scientist and my minor was math. I have worked in a calibration lab for years, worked with NIST, NASA, EPA and other national and international standards labs....so super measurement and math heavy and I was like no you really need to master this stuff because A) it does matter and B) it's not as hard as you might think but after watching I 100% agree. Making consistent cuts by moving your fence as few times as possible they planning and setup is absolutely the best route. I mean math definitely has it's place but when you are trying to make something that's both attractive and fits together well with great joints and symmetric dimensions (where that's wanted) and even/level surfaces, math can sit back, relax and enjoy a drink after the planning stages.

[@LotusMorning]

Great video

[@layeredwork]

That was pleasure to watch! I had a very fun time... 😍👍🏻

[@BartVFF]

you guys got me hooked

[@jake_a_g]

Great vid

[@enmarcadoratresgarzas2785]

Nice job guys.

[@Dennis_Smits]

Totally agree

[@shaunb66]

Right on. Thanks Dennis!

[@markdmaker3173]

Awesome video. Most of the time I do woodworking I don’t measure using rulers I use the wood itself. Having dyslexia I invert numbers turn them around spin them upside down and spit them out so I try not to use number. In colonial times and before rulers and tape measures were never used.

[@shaunb66]

Yep, exactly! Happy to hear it works for you, thanks Mark!

[@valman76]

Thanks 🙏 Masters!

[@mhaz49]

Yea, I learned a long time ago that reference dimensions were the best way to build anything. Keeps the brain from mis-firing.

[@jeffforbes3772]

Great info and as always...very entertaining. I'm wondering why you didn't mention a skosh?

[@shaunb66]

Totally forgot about a skosh, the only truly universal measurement.

[@mjuarez781]

The awkwardness makes me feel so comfortable

[@atomiczombie22]

Love this!! When are you guys going to do a video about your new partnership and Sean giving up his shop?

[@shaunb66]

I am moving down there in the next few weeks, so I'm sure we will be talking in more detail about all the plans we have for the future soon!

[@retiber1]

I actually was thinking about such video. =)

[@shaunb66]

Glad we could deliver! Thanks for watching!

[@hernancoronel]

According to my math changing 1 degree in a 90 cm leg would yield a difference of aprox 2,42 cm of the total width of the legs. It is not much but it is around a 3% change. If the legs were longer than that the difference would amplify much more! Thanks for the video.

[@K0NVICT]

They need to make a good sketch-up app for the ipad to use the apple pencil on. I use linea but still wish sketchup was available

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

That could be cool

[@baltimoreace]

Hey Chris would you ever consider doing a series for teaching furniture drawing/designing on sketch up? I know sketchup comes easy for you now and I’d love to learn from you. I’d pay 💰 💵 😬

[@_WillCAD_]

The word "measure" is used today almost exclusively in the context of "quantitative measure". I.E., determining how many whatzits an object is in length or how many whozits an object weighs (or masses, if you're a scientificalish sort of personalty). But the techniques you showed for the router inlay are also a form of measure. They're just more of a comparative or relative measure than a quantitative one. You placed the actual inlay on the board and traced it with a marking knife. This gave you the measure of the inlays length and width. Then you used the inlay itself to set the router plunge depth, which gave you the measure of the inlay's depth. You used the inlay itself //as a measuring device\\ for all three dimensions, giving you accurate measures for 1 inlaylengthunit by 1 inlaywidthunit by 1 inlaydepthunit. It's still measuring, it's just a different, and in this case, far more accurate, +style+ of measurement. Because the units you used are more precisely aligned with the actual object (or in this case, hole) you were measuring, rather than arbitrary units like feet, meters, handsbreadths, or cubits, which would have to be multiplied and subdivided to represent a real-world object (or in this case, hole). How many 'whats' in a 'grid' to get you safely into the heart of downtown Berlin?* Who cares!? The distance from here to there is always equal to exactly ONE heretothereunit. No math required. Which is good, because I suck at math. And at woodworking, but that's neither here nor there. * Obscure MASH reference...

[@kennethvogt9379]

Love you guys! Shaun, look at the camera when Chris talking, not all over the room like a bored dog. ;-)

[@draztiqmeshaz6226]

"how thick is that?" "that thick." Yes.

[@shaunb66]

Haha, exactly!

[@FredMcIntyre]

Thanks for the info fellas! 😃👍🏻👍🏻📏📐👊🏻👊🏻

[@Foureyes.Furniture]

Thanks Fred...digging the new emoji additions :)

[@FredMcIntyre]

@@Foureyes.Furniture thanks, trying to expand my vocabulary, which I now have more time to do, having to do less math! 😉

[@Photalitube]

Absoluley totally agree with you! That's why i hate cnc machine projects! Nice format guys!

[@shaunb66]

Thanks Aleksander!

[@napes65]

Nice video, thank you. Chris, I've been away from you tube for a little bit so I have to ask, Tigers? What happened to the Cubs hat?