Talent Changes in Cataclysm | WoW Classic

[@rallius8629]

"Dead talents" probably won't matter that much while leveling since player power gets such a big boost in Cata and leveling is so much faster vs previous xpacs.

[@wowprobeast7543]

Tact mastery is good for leveling as you can use disarm and other things that require defensive stance while leveling, just bc you don’t stay in that stance doesn’t mean you don’t stance dance to use an ability only available to defensive stance then back to battle stance you go

[@Valvad0ss]

I do think some talents in cata are way too far up but that’s my only issue and it’s not even a big issue as you have to get max lvl to raid anyway. I agree it’s bad design but it’s not drastic. It should be improved.

[@DominicKennedy-c4g]

You made a good observation in how you get an ability from your trainer when you don't get a talent point. That was actually very smart of the devs and shows they still cared about the satisfaction of levelling instead of it being a chore you had to get over with ASAP... which is why im honestly baffled they decided to throw all that out with the next expansion for the terrible 3 choices every 15 levels system.

[@Soleryth]

That's what I was thinking. To me Cata has one of the best leveling, you're rewarded with something every level. Of course the best is Vanilla, where leveling is the full game for some people. TBC had the same kind but it felt like a rush to get max level and experience "current" content. LK has one of the worse, it's half modernized so it's just not enjoyable. Spell ranks still being in the game while still taking the same mana is stupid. And gosh, Paladins have 3 spells to press, your cycle is literally auto hit waiting for crusader strike or divine storm that you immediately cast on CD.

[@MakeMyDay4815]

While i kind of agree that not getting a talent point every level is boring, when you think about wotlk (and back) talents the experience ends up being more or less the same. 5/5 into a talent for 10% more damage in X ability vs 3/3 for 10% more damage in the same ability. 5 lvls vs 6 lvls. What i found interesting while leveling in cata is that getting into a new row means i need to think more carefully about what i want to unlock first because the rest will take longer to get. As a disc priest for example getting into 3rd row made me think really hard if i wanted to get PI, Attonement or Inner Focus first, cause all 3 are fantastic but choosing one would mean i wouldnt get the rest for quite a while. Im not sure if this happens with other specs as often but playing as both shadow and disc i felt that a couple times

[@bamsemats]

Usually when you come to a point when talents might not be any good for leveling, there are other options further up in the same tree. It’s not unusual that you basically skip a row (with more points allocated above) while leveling.

[@rattlehead999]

They missed their chance to squish the max level down to 60 in Cata so that you can get a point every level(or so), otherwise I think Cata talents are better than the original, because there are no boring, bland talents like 5% more axe damage and such. And yes you are locked into a tree, which isn't a big deal, but it seems pointless.

[@ahetzel9054]

Honestly I just wish they removed the 31 talent requirement to put points in other trees. I just think it would be really cool to see what we could come up with.

[@Iggybart05]

the real problem with the "dead talents" isn't that they are put on the tree too early, it's that in cata some abilities were given way too late. i don't remember having to wait till level 38 for my F'n interupt on my warrior. that's where they jacked it up, they moved some abilities to later levels and didn't make the talents reflect that.

[@coleOKeefe]

pummel has been a level 38 ability in world of warcraft since original vanilla day 1.

[@Iggybart05]

@@coleOKeefe ok cool, still don't put the talents that affect it at level 20.

[@Jdub365]

Can we drop swing timers in cata, I cant remember.

[@RetailCrownza]

Considering hunters auto shoot without having to stand still, I'd safely say you don't need swing timers. Melee is probably the same.

[@Hipp1062]

Depends if there are mechanics based on hits like sindragosa or if abilities still reset your swing timer like heroic throw, shattering throw, and slam

[@BudDIYbuilder]

is it still talent tree locked to one specilazation?

[@jankoskiller8723]

Wrath talents are terrible compared to cata talents. You don't get anything from the talents. For example retri paladin. You press judgement until lvl 50 then you get a crusader strike at lvl 60 you get Divine storm. The game is so unbelievably boring until lvl 60 its unreal. At lvl 40 I was thinking of paying 60$ for a character boost. Not to mention % talents. Like rogue has a talent called Murder that increases your damage by 2% per point (2 points max) and literally 2 rows down there is ANOTHER talent 2% damage increase per point (3 points max) Last talent for assa rogue is a complete joke. If you are a healer paladin half of your talents are useless because why would I pick Holy Shock and Holy Shock related latents if Holy Light is all you press anyway.

[@MMRegrin]

By the way the Cataclysm cooking dailies in major towns grant Chef's Award instead of Epicurean's Award so the idea of pre-stacking these to get Cata recipes as mentioned in earlier video - seems incorrect, unfortunately.

[@mw2984]

as in your describtion... this is the first big update the talent system saw... back 15 years ago...

[@politelyupset]

Maybe lower the requirement for spending talent points in your main tree to like 10? That way you can't pick the OP ability from one spec and immediately start spending points into another spec but makes it possible to do multi-spec at low levels.

[@shaunkelley4131]

You literally said in the first sentence what then issue with the old talents were. "You google what is best". Thats alll youll ever do, there isnt a proper way to make WoW talents exciting because there will always be a default "best build" thatll get found a copied. Lets not act like Vanilla was a bastion of uniqueness in terms of talent system

[@fivehorsejohnson]

Honestly Dragonflight's talent system is the closest they've gotten to true variety/flexibility. There's still cookie cutter specs but at least you've got several options.

[@DominicKennedy-c4g]

That's not a system issue, that's a gamer issue. Everything in existence gets google'd to see what's best and games shouldn't be watered down because bad actors exist within an ecosystem. The idea behind the talent trees from vanilla to wrath was perfectly fine and should have remained.

[@syprus3687]

Agreed. And wotlk ain't much different I'm leveling a shadow priest and I'm lvl 30 spamming holy nova... 10 more lvls in the tree till shadow form and nearly 50 lvls till I get spriest - mind sear...

[@Valvad0ss]

@@DominicKennedy-c4git literally is a systems issue. Because talents existed and their value to your performance existed and some were better than others. You literally just refuted a point without even bringing up a reason for it other than “people lie” lmaooo sit down please

[@DominicKennedy-c4g]

@@Valvad0ss Your mistake was assuming the only reason people play this game is for endgame where "performance" matters. Keep in mind the reason why Classic came into existence, because retail was and still is at times devoid of the freedom and choice to play however you want with whatever you want. You want to bet that the reduction of talent trees wasn't a major factor? Each class used to be capable of multiple builds, now you'd be hard pressed to find more than 2 to each spec. Again, GAMER issue. Just because there will always be a "best method" in a certain context doesn't mean it should be the only possible one, that's boring and takes away ownership from those that would be willing to make their own fun. I think you need to sit down as it seems your body struggled to deliver blood to your brain...

[@zeroresistance7203]

i am def more of a fan of vanilla-wotlk talent customization. I find it really dumb that i am forced to spend 31 talents into one talent tree.

[@Bob-mo4no]

i dont know how you have such a low sub count. When the prepatch drops you are going to explode man.

[@blueoutrider]

The only weird hybrid spec that you mentioned was the tank war hybrid spec. The DW unholy would still function as they go deep into unholy. While I get that weird hybrid specs wouldn't be possible, I haven't really seen one that is worth while. Dungeons are easy enough to not warrant modifying anything to deal with them tbh. That said, I prefer the retail talents over any other version I've seen so far.

[@AbbasAmericaee]

Blood Dk cant dps in cata😭😭😭😭😭

[@johnscott5169]

Mop talents are better

[@wowprobeast7543]

Def not, mop talent system is mid af, here pick one of 3 abilities. Cata talents arnt that bad bc it’s more options for PvP or pve and other combos wotlk has more sure but to many is also bad. Dragonflight does the talent system very well

[@DominicKennedy-c4g]

No.

[@lycerium]

i dont understand your Warrior (Arms) problem. Selfheal in Row 1 is strong and u get it at lv 25. Skill Deep Wonds at 19 and after it Field Dressing - Dead Talent Problem solved and u get two strong talents for leveling... it seems to me that you want to see the bad sides of the new talents. I like the new system way more than classic -> wotlk tbh

[@WalaVeioMala]

I`m sorry, but considering that the leveling experience exist only so that we spend more time in the game, therefore pay more subscription prices, I honestly could not give any less of a shit if something is not good at lower levels. 99.7% of the players focus on endgame, maybe 0.02% play twinks, and the rest 0.01% of masochists that "enjoy" leveling a character can, with all due respect, get bent

[@Countdown142]

Not gonna lie, this video kinda missed the mark for me. Spending so much time focusing on minor disruptions for levelling in an expansion that even as a casual kid I was able to zoom through felt wrong. If this was original classic or TBC then maybe I'd understand the focus on levelling. But here it just feels misplaced. I can understand the criticism behind the talent squish though. Although in my opinion it was needed at this point due to inflated talent trees and gunk talents that just did nothing. All in all I just feel like this video was reaching a bit too hard. I appreciate the cata content though.

[@mw2984]

it is just the easy way...

[@Laiynnalaiynna]

Blizzard seems to have the skill of taking something that works and replacing it with something shit, just for the sake of "creating something new for the players". Dear Blizz Devs, if it ain't broken, don't try and fix it. Not that they would listen, as they have never listened. "We are trying to make the game more fun for new players" and then create a talent tree system that is only playable or interesting at end game level... and with every expansion after WotLK they fall back to this shitty misconception. What a bunch of peanut brains... :D.

[@patchs9999]

that example of arms warrior is terrible

[@DominicKennedy-c4g]

The satisfaction from the talent trees is still present in Cata but the design is an overall downgrade from Wrath, however i would say they are still better than the vanilla trees. In my opinion, TBC > Wrath > Cata > Vanilla. Dragonflight isn't so comparable as its trees are half skillbook but its definitely better than the system MoP brought in, all versions of that can die in a fire...

[@mw2984]

Couldn't care less about a system where you have to go to a website and look up what to skill so that you are not lower then tanks in Damage... There is a reason why you have a copy/paste function in modern games regarding talent trees... the minority put tought into it.

[@Enp198]

First