Tales from the Dark Days of Id Software

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Finally, many thanks to my patient production team for helping turn my somewhat bizarre imaginings into reality!
- Lincoln Petersen, Producer
- Edgar Munguia, Editor

[@lordzon]

Doom wouldn't have been the same without the shotgun! Nice save!

[@sandypetersen6935]

i know right? John Romero pretty much ONLY wanted to use the rocket launcher.

[@lordzon]

@@sandypetersen6935 That would have been lame. Is the Chainsaw your doing too?

[@sandypetersen6935]

@@lordzon I honestly don't remember who argued for the chainsaw. But it was either John Romero or me or both of us.

[@agentsolorunthroughs6010]

It's the main gun I run around with in Doom. Super Shotgun for Doom 2. Definitely good save!

[@Schmuni]

What a save!

[@jimmyhirr5773]

I love how balanced the weapons are in Doom. Every weapon has its upsides and downsides, with the possible exception of the normal fist and pistol. This makes choosing which weapon to use an important tactical decision.

[@Youda00008]

Well let's be honest, Plasma doesn't have any downsides :D It's the universal killer of everything ... as long as you can find enough ammo for it.

[@sirrh9812]

I think most people use the shotguns more than any other weapon

[@davidemelia6296]

@@Youda00008 Plasma has travel time. Not much of a downside, but it is one.

[@E5rael]

The travel time definitely is a downside at longer ranges. Then you're better off switching to the chaingun for sniping purposes.

[@TheStrayHALOMAN]

E2M2 is my favorite DooM map, I love the warehouse area's overall design. Also really wish we got a Quake 2 that had something to do with Quake.

[@SandyofCthulhu]

one of the reasons I was let go was because I wanted Quake 2 to have something to do with Quake.

[@TheStrayHALOMAN]

@@SandyofCthulhu I remember reading that Quake 2 was only called Quake 2 because they couldn't come up with a name and the Quake brand would sell copies.

[@darthXreven]

@@TheStrayHALOMAN I heard that to but with id's rep at the time they coulda named the game anything and it woulda sold, Grindhouse? lolz name sorta fits too, not that Q2 was a grind, I just mean how the Strogg work are like a meatgrinder lolz

[@frangoos5557]

I'm a true believer that Quake 2 would have been tons better if it had something to do with Quake. I like it, yeah, but it's not the same feel.

[@TheStrayHALOMAN]

@@frangoos5557 Quake 2 should over been named something else. It took until Quake Champions for ID to bring Quake 2 into Doom, and Quake 1's universe

[@Jay_Sullivan]

Thanks for saving the pump! Are you the reason that QUAKE is about Lovecraft's elder gods? John Carmack is hinting about wanting to work on classic id I.P.s. It would be hilarious if Hall, Romero, and everyone also went back and they started making the best games available, again. I would love to see Quake 5 packed with a remake of QUAKE.

[@noop9k]

Carmack left id/Bethesda years ago and not on good terms. Was sued, in fact. Unlikely to get rights to any IP.

[@bluebay0]

I'd like to think Marty Stratton, Hugo Martin and the rest of the modern iD team are looking to reboot and restore Quake to its former glory like they did with Doom recently. It makes all the sense in the world. Quake I was much loved even if unfocused. There's a lot of money to be made, awards to be won if they do it. They pretty much have their work cut out for them and all they have to do is not screw it up.

[@bluebay0]

@Dilet How so?

[@UltraViolenceDoom]

That dream sounded hilarious. "Man that was tough" YEP. Really appreciate you sharing this story. I love everything Doom history.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

I recall you said once that E2M6 - 'The Halls Of The Damned' was the first level you made for Doom, and the one that got you your job, is that correct? It's one of my favorites, and it actually has some pretty spooky and imposing parts, I love it. I know a bunch of the levels that both you and John Romero worked on were initially started by Tom Hall, and then renovated, as his more realistic approach was found to not fit with the change in direction to make the game more abstract and fantastical. I like those a lot for having trace elements of realism, but then you guys warped them to be more surreal and/or otherworldly, to particularly great effect in Episode 2, really conveying the idea of a futuristic military space base twisted and reshaped by evil demons from hell. Episode 2 remains my favorite part of the original game because of that.

[@SandyofCthulhu]

thanks!

[@bluebay0]

I love Halls of the Damned too, even if some people don't (I'm looking at you Civvie lol). It sits perfectly with what Doom meant to me growing up (even if I only played Halls for the first time as an adult!): a horror game that gave you a fighting chance to vanquish the demons that frighten you. I love the freaky pillars with the slime and Berserk, the dark wood panelled area with the throbbing lights with the demons, the way it contrasted with the white walled tech base areas leading up to it (which I thought helped give the player a breather from the horror), the central room with the various traps, the innocuous pathway to the fake exit. And the music is the icing on the cake. So memorable even to an adult that has witnessed the beauty in the detailed level design that modern games have to offer. Good times now and to come with that level.

[@Snufflegrunt]

@@SandyofCthulhu You probably don't hear this a lot, but episode 2 is actually my favourite episode of Doom 1. Halls of the Damned is a quintessential Doom level, really capturing that horror aspect that later games have all but lost.

[@deathx88]

Can't believe he has a channel. There's so much infamous level design in Doom that people always hate on from Sandy *ahem Chasm *ahem. Turns out he was the innovative one. He's the one who named half the monsters like Mancubus and Arachnotron, now I find out if it wasn't for him the shotgun wouldn't have been the prominent weapon. Kind of crazy besides the level design how much influence he had in the game and that's amazing to hear all the old stories. BTW. my avatar is a Cacodemon, ain't that some shit, I love me some Doom.

[@deathx88]

@@ULTRAOutdoorsman Yeah, it was just a typo, and pretty sure I was drunk when I wrote all this out.

[@frangoos5557]

The story about having nightmares with doom made me remember how many times I had nightmares with it for non-stop playing it for weeks. I would also hear Imps and Cacodemons in street noises lol

[@ArkhamReporter]

Great! Another video, thanks for the upload. What are your opinions of the modern Doom games? Would you have designed things very differently? I still play Doom every now and then, and I guess you're aware of the modding community around this game? It's such a solid game. Would you mind doing a video about your thoughts on Quake? Were you the one responsible for the Lovecraft nods and easter eggs?

[@arthurpetersen1783]

he was responsible for naming all the monsters in Quake, and all the HPL nods, yes.

[@sandypetersen6935]

I am well aware of the modding community, and I think it's fabulous. I was kicked out of id Software (thanks to a backstabbing snake in the grass) during Quake 2, so the Quake series kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not because it's bad, but because of the personal animus I bear towards one of the people on it. I was absolutely responsible for the HPL stuff and easter eggs in Quake.

[@UziIdiot]

@@sandypetersen6935 Did you ever meet Paul Steed? I heard he was a real controversial figure at the studio, eventually being fired at the start of Doom 3's development.

[@SandyofCthulhu]

@@UziIdiot Paul Steed worked like a demon, drank way too much, had a ego that was huge even for id Software, and did compelling animations. I thought he was great, but I can see why some people couldn't handle him.

[@brunosiffredi]

Jesus Christ this video deserves way more views

[@CABerlitz]

It is so nice to have this anecdotes and to really profit from this knowledge coming from Sandy. Thank you for your videos and for keeping us entertained during the quarantine

[@pixeldeath5846]

Shotgun is my favorite weapon in Doom, was my workhorse for most the game, so satisfying to use, thank you Sandy!

[@Tchernobog]

I was watching an interview with John Carmack and he also said that he'd constantly have Doom dreams and he'd still have his coding hat on in them

[@osoewert6439]

I loved Doom. I still love Doom. We just got the newest release and I wish I was enjoying it as much as the original.

[@shecklesmack9563]

Yeah, I like the new games too but I feel like there’s a way to bring the same vision from 1993 to 2020 but I’m not sure this is it. It still has a whole lot of DNA that has nothing to do with Doom and that’s probably just because none of the original team was involved. Imagine if those guys were still at id...

[@sandypetersen6935]

@@shecklesmack9563 well there are reasons why none of the original guys are left.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

@@sandypetersen6935 Isn't Kevin Cloud (and Donna Jackson) still there?

[@noobguy9973]

@@shecklesmack9563 but you gotta realise if it was extremly similar to the game from 1993 hardly anyone would like it why do you think COD is getting so much sh*t thrown at it its because every ''new'' game hardly has anything new

[@SandyofCthulhu]

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Kevin is still there, though in what I've heard is a fairly low ranking position. Is Donna still there? That's amazing.

[@ericmotta1]

3:20 - Game balance

[@Sinn0100]

Thank you for saving the shotgun. It is the most iconic weapon in the game by far.

[@m8f]

Thanks for this story from the past! It's wonderful how such different people got together as a team, combined their ideas, and produced an absolute hit of a game. By the way, is there any chance of having a new level for classic Doom from Sandy Petersen at some point? (sorry if this question is asked a lot)

[@SandyofCthulhu]

I guess someone would have to put up some money for me to do that. No promise that it would be any good - I've not designed a Doom level since 1997.

[@UndeadRyker]

Sandy of Cthulhu Just saying, I totally support the idea of you coming back and seeing you make a new level for Doom 2. It doesn’t matter if you think your new level would be bad or not. As long as you’re willing to do it would still be amazing and interesting to see!

[@alexsturge1181]

@@SandyofCthulhu its a year older then me

[@lachousalle31]

Just curious, have you met creative director Hugo Martin and what do you think of his version of it on Doom/2016 and Doom Eternal?

[@ghoulsarefree]

Doom 2 is the masterpiece of id software and IMO all of first person gaming. For that we have Sandy's incredible storytelling level design to thank, with perfect maps like Map13 Downtown, Map28 The Spirit World, and Map08 Tricks n' Traps. Sandy is the real Masters of Doom.

[@Vile-Flesh]

AMEN Not an hour goes by of any day when I don't think of DOOM 2. I will never forget the first time I used the super shotgun. I didn't even know it was in the game. Fourteen year old me in 1994 was blown away emptying both barrels and clearing a hallway of former humans. DOOM episode 1 was a huge step toward manhood for me. DOOM/DOOM2 is life.

[@riflemanm16a2]

Having recently played through the entirety of the Doom and Doom 2 official content (halfway through Plutonia now, then I'll be done), I have mixed feelings on which is better. I think Doom 1 had way better levels, but it really suffered from lack of enemy diversity. Doom 2 on the other hand had less interesting levels, but the new enemies and the super shotgun were huge improvements to the game. Doom 1 just gets a bit old killing zombies and imps most of the time.

[@ghoulsarefree]

@@riflemanm16a2 Did you play on UV pistolstarts? As you'll hear Sandy mention in these videos, that's how his maps (over half the content of both games) are designed. You lose a lot of nuance when you show up on every map blasting away with the SSG, and having a permanent backpack is basically playing with cheats on, for how much easier it makes the game. Romero's maps (D1E1 and scattered through the latter parts of D2) aren't built that way (he always throws you a shotgun immediately), but it doesn't hurt them either.

[@riflemanm16a2]

@@ghoulsarefree No, I played with multiple saves each level, haha. I realize I cut way back on the difficulty that way, and I can see what you mean about missing the nuance since weapon pickups are meaningless this way. There are just so many levels between the two games with their expansions that I just wanted to get through them to experience them. Maybe I'll go back and try them with pistol starts at some point (not Plutonia though, I am having a hard time with that one even with saves and all weapons, and probably not master levels since those are mostly not great).

[@ghoulsarefree]

@@riflemanm16a2I'm also new to classic Doom in the past couple years. When I started to get a bit bored with the game a friend recommended pistolstarts, and a light went off in my brain when I switched to playing that way. You'll be surprised to find that SSG is found on fewer than half of Doom 2's maps!! But that adds to the feeling of potency when it does show up, like picking up a Tanooki suit in Mario. IMO the proper id games have a lot of layers (some intentional, some not) that Plutonia is lacking. Plutonia is tightly designed, in fact so tightly that it leads to fairly shallow gameplay. The difficulty is relentlessly peaking, the routes are linear, everything is designed around rockets + SSG, and 90% of enemies are you-know-who. If you're still looking for new maps and not ready to return to Doom 1 & 2, please check out Heretic. That blows away Final Doom and Master Levels on every level.

[@r.g.thesecond]

THANK YOU! for saving the shotgun. Single-shot, satisfying weapons is the backbone of any fun shooter IMHO. (railgun, ssg etc) The over-reliance on automatic weapons in CoD clones is grating.

[@walt_man]

Ahck... COVID had me unemployed for 5 months. That number is just wretched... Financial security for all I say.

[@GabagoolGang]

DOOM: The biggest productivity killer since marijuana.

[@BandenIndarys]

Good thing I am not the only one who had Doom nightmares, I have had dreams about being chased by cyberdemons, or attacked by lost souls, in one dream I bested the spider mastermind after causing him to infight with a bunch of other monsters.

[@nolan412]

Doom 3 tried to do levels that changed on you. They could have tried harder.

[@DoomCollector]

Your nightmares also best ideas for your Doom levels of course. :))

[@llSuperSnivyll]

That nightmare might even be a game concept worth at least having a look at. Rather than fighting the setting or the enemies, you fight the very game designer trying to figure out how the level should be. Kind of like struggling to find good levels in games like Super Mario Maker, except it's changing on the fly.

[@nicolaim4275]

Isn't that the premise of Pony Island?

[@Big_Gulps_Huh]

Sounds like something out of The Stanley Parable.

[@LeadHeadBOD]

Hah, Sandy Petersen single handedly killed Microprose!

[@SJ23982398]

I think Id software was probably a unfun place to work in the beginning precisely because it had so many visionaries in one place. Too much ego and strong and possibly conflicting visions in one place isn't good!

[@Arbiter099]

From reading "Masters of DOOM," you get the impression that they were having perhaps too much fun

[@noop9k]

@@Arbiter099 Masters of Doom mostly tells the story as told by the founders with Sandy out of the picture IIRC.

[@fink94]

Thank you for saving the shotgun! Best weapon in any fps EVER

[@Foxxorz]

Sandy talks so fast. What a nerd :b

[@jothain]

So glad shotgun was saved. It's imo the best weapon in Doom as it forces and kinda prolongs that aim,fire,dodge cycle. Especially on D2 with supershotgun, which imo is the main weapon of that game.

[@jothain]

@@ULTRAOutdoorsman I fully agree. Biggest flaw by far imo in Wolf3d was it's weapon. I did dislike the levels also quite a bit, but that combined to weapon set made game so boring that I never completed even the shareware episode.

[@michaelbuehler3897]

The regular shotgun is one of the better ranged weapons for picking off targets at a reasonable distance.

[@mattschemmer3091]

Great stuff my man! Thank you for all you've done for gaming. I wish more indie studios would have dedicated designers. Don't get me wrong - there are a TON of amazing studios that do, but you see so many games come to the forefront designed by the main artist or programmer, that the game clearly lacked cycles in the design itself. It makes such a massive difference when a talented person is dedicated to that position.

[@elimgarak3597]

Wow infinite thanks for saving the shotgun

[@ConeFlower-gx2qk]

Holy shit is that Sandy???? Ahhhhhhhhh

[@leadean5931]

I need to shoot the wolf in commandor keen, that made me remember your name I lost you for awhile

[@nemtudom5074]

4:45 Oh, i remember that level. Pretty rude of you to do that

[@wolfgangfrost8043]

Super interesting that you argued to save the shotgun! When you joined up on design was the weapon lineup mostly decided on or was there a crossover period when some of the early weapons like the bayonet/rifle were still being used instead of fists/pistol? I know you've mentioned the Beta Lost Soul that did hitscan attacks instead of charging.

[@kirksealls1912]

At least that’s a cool nightmare. My nightmares are all about being back in college, not having my class schedule so I have no idea where to go and when, and ultimately realizing there’s a class I’m supposed to be taking that I haven’t attended once

[@TheCyberDruid]

I love how the channel is finally getting the attention it deserves :) Crossing my fingers that it'll go through the roof from here! As always great anecdotes from your days at id.

[@MaggotDiggo1]

Super cool stories. It's interesting how what would have been a big budget video game company at the time had, by today's standards, an indie game company culture.

[@heavyreynald]

Talking about games in dreams, I usually dream of AoE2 matches. But I don't see myself playing on a PC. Rather than that, it's like the very game interface in my head and there's no cursor, the units and buildings move and work at my will. Is there anyone dreaming of a game like that. And most important: is there a ranked ladder for games in your dreams? I better start ranking, then...

[@BlazingOwnager]

Micropose Software. That's triggering some nostalgic memories.

[@goldenhog]

respect to sandy. i can't wait for him to make a new doom level. it might happen. if it doesn't, that's ok. this is a legendary game designer that needs about 50% more respect than he gets.

[@sverr0r]

Doom had the best inherent balance in a videogame to date when it came out & has hardly been surpassed since. Since then it should _maybe_ share that space with the original Starcraft. The difficulty settings sure had room for time consuming honing, but the sturdy framework of the core ranges left the already open modding doors swinging on their hinges in a wild gust - for decades.

[@DaveNorthWest]

Wow, this info is really important to me. Doom is the best game on the planet and if you had nightmares while making levels for it just know that they weren't left unappreciated

[@Jev55]

I remember having nightmares where I was stuck in Doom in "real life" after playing when I was a little kid 😂

[@dougcarey2233]

That nightmare description was wild.

[@gregmark1688]

Hey Sandy, really enjoyed these vids about Id... that must have been great times! I'll probably never get over it, now that I realize that these great games were being developed within 10 miles of where I was living at the time (in Richardson). Anyways, I just want to point out the completely off-topic fact that Darklands is easily one of the or maybe THE most underrated CRPG ever written. I spent at least a hundred hours playing that game. Have you done a video about that amazing piece of work? And if not, is there any chance you might talk about that for a few minutes?

[@riflemanm16a2]

I routinely have dreams that I'm in a Doom level. It's actually the most frequently reoccurring theme in my dreams which is weird because I didn't play Doom a whole lot until recently.

[@BlazingOwnager]

Just saying thank you for not just saving the Doom shotgun, but saving the very first true FPS Shotgun. All of gaming would be different without it! Also the way the enemies are balanced is why Doom holds up. Every enemy has effective ways to use it and creative synergy; the most basic of enemies can be threats until the end.

[@mightymediocre3352]

"In 1993..." Yes I was born. One of the first pc games I played, aoe 1.

[@Vile-Flesh]

The pump shotgun of DOOM/DOOM2 is the perfect weapon and it was highly influential in my life. I am very grateful that you made it so that it remained in the game. This video brought tears to my eyes. How does this not have more views?????

[@0mnis14sh]

I'm gonna guess the lava dream is related to hard mode selection on quake

[@soviet_idiot]

Doom ain't Doom if there's no Shotgun, that goes for the mods as well.

[@rbarreira2]

Thanks for creating this channel and all the stories, it's great to have these recorded for posterity!

[@Big_Gulps_Huh]

My god, that nightmare must've been so meta.

[@Ahmadabdal_]

Dam I loved the pump shotgun even more than the double barrelled that was soooo good

[@Jkauppa]

interested implementing a raster per-pixel light map casting engine? to one up carmac, if not, then I go to epic

[@Jkauppa]

money is not worth serving, in any case, no wonder MP went down the tube

[@Jkauppa]

we believe for us to be saved by grace, only, not earning anything, by command service

[@Jkauppa]

once you have been seen as righteous, you cannot die anymore, dont be law slave

[@Jkauppa]

do you serve leaders, in slavery or God, in freedom? Spirit not letter, in new covenant, do you remember old covenant, from which Christ saved us, away from law prison?

[@Jkauppa]

mech warrior game

[@Kaaxe]

that echo effect is getting on my nerves

[@franzpattison]

I want to hear more! You should get together with the old id guys and recall stories

[@anusmcgee4150]

You indirectly are the reason why Doom Eternal's Meathook Super Shotgun exists and God bless you for that. It's probably the coolest weapon since the Gravity Gun.