No Life On Mars? That Means God Is Real!? | Talk Heathen: Throwback

[@russswanson3820]

When people tell Tom he’s using too many syllables, they don’t mean big words, they mean stop talking.

[@siennility4706]

Tom's 'Argument': There is no life on Mars, therefore god exists. No he does not elaborate.

[@LunaBoo12]

Thank you, Tom, for the extensive list of animals that don't live on Mars. Very enlightening.

[@taketheatrain5393]

Tom was obviously the ground zero case study for the Dunning Krueger effect!

[@AngieBaby666]

These shows seem to be magnets for people suffering from the Dunning Kruger Effect.

[@TheLevantin]

We looked at a drop from the ocean and found no fish in this drop, so the whole ocean must be lifeless. And that means that magic exists... for some reason.

[@CalvinSnow-ks3cl]

Tom seems to think adding a god to his "explanation" is not going against Occam's razor

[@Mosz]

actual argument starts @11:20 everything before that is babbling only thing before that was caller claiming he will use Occam's razor while not knowing what it is

[@petebetz5358]

Occam's razor is the least amount of assumptions to a conclusion. As for the vocabulary, know your audience.

[@andreasplosky8516]

Tom is completely unable to communicate anything.

[@Thess2]

No life on Mars: Proves God because of how special and unique we are. Life on Mars: Proves God because what are the odds in this big a universe that life would happen twice in our solar system. Don't know either way: Proves God because science knows nothing and the only true knowledge comes from worship. Quite a racket they've got going.

[@quotedotes]

Bingo

[@ConChairman]

The idiot caller doesn't realize that the Mars rovers purpose was NOT to search for life, but to simply understand the chemistry of the planet. If they happened to find signs of past or present life, then that would be another science.

[@Marchant2]

Theists: "We don't have an answer for this (pick a topic we don't have an answer for); therefore, god."

[@AngieBaby666]

How could the rover find fossils? Fossils are usually under the ground. They are not just lying around for the most part. The rover is not equipped for that type of exploration. Tom is just too smart for all of us.

[@almightyshippo1197]

0:29 ... right at the start, I'm already finding an issue. When he talks about Einstein, he says that Einstein said that 'these scientific ideas and physics formulas should be simple enough to explain to a fourth grader.' Umm... pretty sure he didn't say that the ideas and formulas should be simple. The quote is "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." This was talking about being a good communicator, and how if you understand something well then you should be able to explain it in a way that makes sense at different levels of communication. It's not saying that the idea itself should be simple. Unless this call is referring to something else that Einstein said, in which case please correct me.

[@tnret94]

which is ironic, because Tom was absolutely horrible at communicating.

[@neekerbreeker]

For so much of the call, I thought Tom was almost there...but his ego was really, really getting in the way. A few misunderstandings are throwing him completely off-course, and it doesn't occur to him to take just one more step back and go in a different direction: how does life equal a god, and specifically his god? (Edit: despite the ego, he didn't seem like a jerk. I think there's still hope!)

[@acerx203]

Tom has deluded himself and has fallen down the rabbit hole of God of the gaps, and incredulity.

[@teamdumpsterygo5100]

Tom managed to be thr most incoherent and simultaneously full of himself caller to go on about how people don't understand his big words and how no one can understand him because of that, and THEN babble incoherently for like all of the call which was just him saying terms and stating random facts that don't connect at all

[@mizzzlicia1832]

I'm pro whatever SR has going on on his face. Very Jesus, very demure

[@matrimchambers110]

I'm averaging advertising every 2 and a half to three minutes. Gah! Throws a wrench into getting really into these deep conversations

[@RB-zh1eq]

I’m really smart. I have words. The best words.

[@joemalinak7410]

Monotheistic supreme being doesn't even make sense.. so he's saying a supreme being believes in a single being more superior? The other thing that baffled me is thinking that not finding life on one planet proves or disproves anything. So if no life on Mars proves a single supreme being, would finding life on Jupiter disprove a single supreme being, or would it prove multiple supreme beings?

[@buddahluvaz8]

I think Tom thinks there are only 8 planets in the universe…

[@odinson6348]

There is strong evidence that there could have been life on Mars and was probably in the first stages of biological evolution, but for an atmospheric cataclysm that left it destitute. Depending on the size and type of a Sun, other solar systems could also have vastly different Goldilocks Zones than Earth. This "life on Earth therefore God" stance is just unimaginative.

[@bobwilson3980]

Does this guy think the rover exploded the WHOLE planet.

[@ChristianIce]

He thinks we were looking for dinosaur fossils on Mars. Doesn't matter how much of the planet we probed.

[@iriswaters]

"there's a logic here" *Doubt*

[@iDanDelf]

What the F just happened?! 🤣

[@kimsland999]

Words like abracadabra.

[@SceptiGus]

Love the beard, SR. I suits you well.

[@AngieBaby666]

How does Tome know about Mars being devoid of life?

[@dylanpatterson7149]

Exactly. Us not having found life yet doesn’t equal life not existing there, not to mention the possibility of fossils of life existing there in the past, which we have no way of even looking for currently

[@SkulldugerySmiles]

If it looks like cake, smells like cake and tastes like cake, it's cake. Try 'Parsimony' The poor man, I sincerely feel sorry for him, a by product of a substandard education system and indoctrination into a stone age story, by passing the enlightenment and going straight to his core.

[@Penrodyn]

That was a very frustrating call.

[@williamjohn2910]

Half an hour of crazy talk.

[@williamjohn2910]

What conversation was John having, one of the most confusing callers I've ever heard.

[@MrBozoOzo]

I have a degree in Earth Science, and I am familiar with Albert Einstein. Sounds like that was an online university or possibly homeschooling?

[@ChristianIce]

So, this guy thinks he's smart and educated, yet all he's doing is strawmanning telescopes and probes. Cool.

[@trollhunter3969]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. An initial survey with Mars rovers is a small sampling effort - recon, not intensive sampling. Could be life on Mars that this scratch of the surface didn’t catch.

[@dylanpatterson7149]

Not to mention the possibility of fossils of past life

[@trollhunter3969]

@@dylanpatterson7149 life likes hidey holes in harsh environments.

[@trollhunter3969]

Life in a harsh place likes hidey holes. Extant life or fossils could be inaccessible to Mars rovers.

[@arndnaj]

Tom's arguments were much more coherent in his head.

[@iriswaters]

Occam's razor isn't about minimizing entities, it's about minimizing unknowns. It's about how the theory with the fewest unproven assertions is to be preferred. And even then it's not about it necessarily being more likely to be true, but rather easier to build experiments for.

[@uriahfindley6231]

Occam's razor is a principle of theory construction or evaluation according to which, other things equal, explanations that posit fewer entities, or fewer kinds of entities, are to be preferred to explanations that posit more.

[@iriswaters]

@uriahfindley6231 yes, that's the technical language used in the original presentation of the principle. But it's missing an absolute SHITTON of context, particularly about what it meant by "entities", and as stated it's actually incredibly misleading without that context. A lay reading of it by the literal wording would suggest that monotheism is ALWAYS the more likely/preferred explanation for everything. After all, it always and only posits one entity that explains everything. But that's not what's meant by entities, and a far more accurate wording, using lay terminology, would be "unknowns".

[@uriahfindley6231]

@@iriswaters Just cause someone can read a definition wrong doesn't mean the definition is wrong. If that were the case, no definition would ever be correct.

[@iriswaters]

@@uriahfindley6231 no, when a definition uses language in an unorthodox way which lends itself INCREDIBLY easily to misinterpretation by anyone not versed in the specifics of the technical language used, it's a shit definition to ever use outside those specific technical circles. And since Occam's Razor gets misused about 100x more often than it gets used appropriately, it is useful to be able to give a definition that's actually meaningful in those 99% of cases where it comes up.

[@iriswaters]

@@uriahfindley6231 a "definition" in the mathematical sense had need of precision and specificity and hence should use the most precise terms available, regardless of whether they can be understood by someone unversed in the language. A "definition" in the dictionary sense has need to avoid any language that has a high likelihood of being grossly misunderstood by the average reader, ESPECIALLY if the most likely misunderstanding is to read the definition as saying the opposite of the intended meaning.

[@ekipogh]

This conversation was amusingly stupid

[@Ultramentsh]

There once was life on Mars. Then we moved here 🤷🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

[@joefagan9335]

Tom could have looked up Occam’s razor before he made it central to his argument.

[@slimjim227]

Arthur C. Clarke is famously known for the quote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." (Or supernatural) Would that equate with 75% certainty of the God proposition for Tom?

[@tiltingwindmill]

Tom (caller): "There's no alien garbage on Mars, but there's weird lifeforms 3 miles deep under the sea on Earth, therefore God is 75% more likely." Me: Huh? Logic? Tom seems to talk in random science-ish news feed headlines.

[@teve90]

Not a roast turkey cuz i ate it!😅

[@lyleswanson7557]

How could the rovers on Mars find fossils? They are only able to dig a few inches into the soil. 🙄

[@jonrendell]

Tom really thinks he's making cogent arguments.

[@arndnaj]

I think Tom is Rick on qualudes.

[@dylanpatterson7149]

…does Tom know Earth and Mars are different planets? Mars lacks atmosphere, which is kind of important for life, as we know it. That’s not to say life never existed on Mars

[@complexeddrummer]

Um.... I mean...things were said. This conversation was a rollercoaster, but every time you'd reach the peak of a hill, instead of dropping down the other side into an exhilarating rush of information and understanding, it would crest over......and then begin slowly clicking its way up THE SAME GODDAMN HILL! Also, I do not believe Tom has an Earth Science degree, not an Associate's or even a purchased degree from Sealand. I do not believe Tom is familiar with Albert Einstein in literally any sense of the word. I am roughly 75% convinced that Tom does not know any words with more syllables than "philosophy." I have sat through this listening with the unflinching attentiveness of a man on 40mg of Adderall and have come to only one conclusion: Tom has not been admonished for using large words when simple words would suffice, but rather he's been admonished for using (again, I'm not confident any words with greater than 4 syllables exists in Tom's vocabulary) large words when HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE WHAT THE WORDS MEAN. The only charitable explanation is that Tom is a troll purposely trying to waste the hosts' time.

[@erinclark5681]

I have serious doubts his "degree" is in anything other than underwater bubble blowing.

[@Jo-JoandTaffy]

This guy doesn't know what he is talking about. He thinks the recently launched Europa Clipper mission (which will arrive in the Jovian system in 2030) is going to drill throught the icy crust of Europa to look for life. That probe will orbit Jupiter and do 49 flyby of Europa to study the characteristics of the icy crust. That is all. Right now we think the crust is 100km thick. We have only drilled 12km deep on earth so going 10 times that on Europa is probably never going to happen let alone in 2032.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

I have a physics and nuclear engineering degree. You should see the maths Einstein did to come up with a few « simple » explanatory equations..but it took him years, blood sweat and tears to get there.

[@jamesarnette1394]

Math is singular. There are no maths.

[@otrondal]

God exist, because everytime I flush, it disappears.

[@eklektikTubb]

Woooow, i am totally confused! I dont know what was this all about, i can only guess that it was either "the higher entity that exists is either alien or god and no proof for alien suggests that it is god" or "atheists are justified to have faith in aliens, just as we theists are justified to have faith in god".

[@robertschriek1353]

I have a degree. :-)

[@AngieBaby666]

Tom sounds like he came to the call halfway through the conversation. Not sure where puns come into the equation. I’m confused and irritated.

[@AndyRaparison]

I kind of want to know how can one get a degree with a flawed logic like that?

[@bubbercakes528]

Tom is actually insulting in his assumption that the hosts do not understand him because it’s “complicated.” I would infer that Tom pushing an unsound premise that he is somehow unable to voice. He is trying to find god so desperately that his zeal for it is biasing his opinion of reality.

[@michaelpeterson4362]

Tom is not listening.

[@grahamjones5400]

Just say " i dunno!" . Simple every day language

[@zeebest1004]

Any fourth graders here understand him?

[@decay79]

Tom was drunk on his own farts.. Nothing about his argument made any kinda sense..

[@juintevrucht6079]

Tom doesn't really understand science, Mars exploration, Occam's razor, Einstein's quote or much of anything else. I feel obligated to point out that Earth Science is Geology "lite".

[@csadler]

Dude thinks god exists because no life on Mars? 200 billion stars (planets) in the Milky Way and 100 billion similar galaxies, Tom your mind is a mess.

[@williamjohn2910]

Tom spoke for half hour but never said anything. Weirdest caller ever,,,maybe split personality disorder or schizophrenia. Sorry Tom.

[@DanTaurusAtheist56]

Well there still needs some evidence of life on mars U can't just say ooh yeah there's people partying on the planet This don't mean Ur jesus is real

[@golach420]

Tom is in his own world... You can tell he is delusional by his emotions.

[@roguebotanist]

Tom believes in ockhams razor but he muddled his claims with layers of convoluted bullshit when all he had to say was he didn't know if a God existed. No wonder people don't want to talk to him.

[@Rei-Rei]

I felt like the hosts were trying too hard here. They used a lot of words to describe analogies to just basically say "why does no life on mars = god?" when maybe just straight out asking the question and staying on it and not letting the caller wander off into one of _his_ analogies that don't go anywhere would have been more useful.

[@kmaru80]

Scott Steiner, amateur theologian

[@carolinenagel7085]

Tom, you are not as intelligent as you think. You use a lot of words but you say nothing.

[@Sal.K--BC]

Hilariously incoherent!

[@DavidWilson-eu1mv]

Caller is definitely a victim of educational arrogance. Too many people confuse being educated with being intelligent. The two are mutually exclusive concepts.

[@GURU-SPANKS]

They are not mutually exclusive - so it is possible to be both educated and intelligent. Perhaps what you meant to say is that being educated has nothing to do with intelligence and vice versa.

[@DavidWilson-eu1mv]

@ Yes, one can be both but they are still mutually exclusive ideas. Many who are educated are not intelligent and many who are intelligent are not educated. My grandfather, father, and father-in-law are prime examples. Two of them never even graduated high school but they were three of the most intelligent people I ever knew. Going to college I found that many of the highly educated professors were not anywhere near what could be considered intelligent.

[@bobwilson3980]

Tom is laughing at you two.

[@quotedotes]

Tom is senile, and any laughing or joking is purely coincidental, due to dementia

[@zasbill1988]

Was he trans? Was this the reason for saying his pronouns?

[@ziploc2000]

No, most people have preferred pronouns, so it's just a courtesy.

[@zasbill1988]

@ sure but as 99% of the nation uses pronouns that are self evident, making a thing about telling everyone’s pronouns appears like it’s for the purpose of virtue signaling.

[@gerrye114]

​@@zasbill1988 mostly it's handy for getting bigots to out themselves

[@denzelelysium]

@@zasbill1988 Girl, you crazy.

[@buddahluvaz8]

I agree it seems superficial but if a call screener asks for your pronouns and you refuse to give you are just wasting your breath to be a jerk. It’s easier to say “he him” or “I’m a man” than “do you think I’m trans? Why do I need to give my pronouns!” Just give them your pronouns, Karen, Jesus. Also some people have gender neutral names (Terry; Alex, Avery) and high voices for men, low voices for women.

[@Mark1615-zi4er]

Repent of your sins. Believe in Jesus for salvation and be born again, becoming a new person in this life. Luke 24:47, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, 2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV

[@shaqyardie8105]

Mr. Algorithm, welcome back!

[@emoryogglethorp8180]

If you want us to do what you asked then the first thing you have to do is prove that you god exist, that Jesus is the representative of that actual god, and that sin is a thing, a bit of an uphill battle my friend. Oh, and stop spamming the same thing word for word under different profile names, you're not exactly fooling anybody, the fact that you need to be dishonest to evangelize doesn't exactly when you any points for your efforts LOL

[@KarstenNygaard-d8c]

" I will not buy this record, it is scratched" Monty Python

[@diverguy3556]

You're a loony.

[@slideonproductions9886]

No thanks, look what it's done to you. Cretinized.

[@stevewhite6861]

Tom is the most mixed up theist I have ever heard, he doesn't even know what a questions is.

[@jasonhendricks1496]

I personally believe at some point there was life on Mars. My theory is that they believed in a false god and destroyed themselves just like what is going to happen to earth.

[@markeastlack4180]

I'm confused why these hosts can't just ask, "What does life on Mars have to do with God?"