"Fragmentation And CORRUPTION Of The NHS!" | Peter Cardwell Hosts NHS Debate

Talk's Peter Cardwell hosts a debate over NHS privatisation with Keep Our NHS Public campaigner and psychotherapist Alia Butt and head of Political Economy Kristian Niemietz.
Alia slams the Tories, saying when they started "we had the best healthcare in the world... but we've seen fragmentation and corruption."
Kristian disagrees, saying: "The NHS was never the best system in the world and had always been bad."
The debate comes as Health and Social Care Secretary Wes Streeting says he is “optimistic” that the dispute between the Government and junior doctors in England can be brought to an end.
Click here for more from Talk talk.tv
If you need any help visit: talk.tv/helplines
#nhs #healthcare #debate

[@enigma_-_79]

I remember when we had beds, nurses in little white caps and ward matrons. Sheets were changed, wards were clean and nurses took vitals and spoke with patients. We got the tea trolly at 10am and 3pm. It’s sickening to see the state of our run-down hospitals today where they charge £20 per day to watch telly on a tiny screen. Never see a nurse or for that matter, doctors, unless you’re at deaths door.

[@unlikeable8619]

The massive population increase puts the most strain on NHS. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at it, if immigration is not dramatically reduced, nothing will ever change.

[@stevehayward1854]

Throwing money at the NHS has historically not achieved anything at all. It has become a bureaucratic nightmare, the NHS thinks the problem with waiting lists can be solved by throwing more management at the problem. Bureaucrats only measure for success is the size of their budget and the more they fail, the bigger their budgets get. So they get rewarded for failure

[@stevehayward1854]

@peterholden3672 The size of the NHS budget is no indication of support. The Conservatives ideology is for the NHS to be more efficient and the Labour ideology is to throw more money at the problem and see no benefit but are able to claim they care more. The NHS desperately needs reform but the Labour party wont do it, they will just pump more money into it and the NHS managers will spend it unwisely.

[@patricktracey7424]

every NHS manager should have failure penalty clauses built into their contracts, that would get rid of the dross.

[@stevehayward1854]

NHS managers get rewarded for failure, the more they fail, the bigger their budgets get, the higher their standing in the world gets.

[@codswallop164]

I was one of only about 5 white British people in accident & emergency a few weeks back, probably about 40 people on average at any one time. We all know what's buckling the NHS and it won't get fixed until politicians can speak about it without being bad person gulaged.

[@mustertherohirrim7315]

I went into town before. I kid you not whites were 10%. Old dears made up ½ of them.

[@Stealth360stealth]

@peterholden3672 do you need to ask where people are from to be able to tell that their roots in the UK don't go any further back than 30 years?

[@lukefox1006]

I was in A&E about 3 weeks ago other than the receptionist and a hand full of paramedics the rest of the staff were made up of pretty much none english speaking workers.

[@enigma_-_79]

They bring all of their relatives some of whom have diseases we had eradicated and who all use the NHS AND they will get old and use the NHS more so will their 5/6 kids and their kids.

[@Andrew-fq6gm]

To many managers (admin)and poor quality foreign staff

[@brianstubberfield2116]

Top heavy management paying themselves astronomical salaries and pharmaceutical companies charging the NHS 10 times more for drugs doesn’t help does it.

[@stevenaustin8274]

It’s gone to diversify officers on five figure salaries

[@pauljermyn5909]

I recently watched an early 1970s comedy in which they joke about hospital treatment waiting times, lack of bed spaces and doctor incompetence in the nhs, this isnt new

[@EggPottsKnock]

The worst run nhs is in wales which is under labour control

[@tracyconnolly7169]

We have many health problems now that we didn't have back in the day many self enjuiced with bad life style and nuisance calls for attention, the NHS has been taken fir granted for far too long.

[@steveelliott9746]

We've never had the best healthcare system in the world except maybe at the very beginning. We spend much the same as most other developed countries as a proportion of GDP and yet our outcomes are down the rankings. That tells me that we are not spending the money well. Alia's argument is incoherent. It just comes down to the fact that she just doesn't like privatisation for ideological reasons.

[@run2cat4run]

Last time it was good was run by Labour in the 00s

[@steveelliott9746]

@peterholden3672 I was looking at health spending as a percentage of GDP. According to Eurostat in 2020 the two top spenders were France and Germany at 12.2% and 12.8%. The EU average was 10.9%. In that year the UK figure was 12% according to the ONS. Which was higher than Austria, Spain, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Holland and Italy. It's worth pointing out that some countries such as Spain pay less than the UK and less per capita but have better outcomes. For example Spain's infant mortality rate is 1.955 deaths per 1000 live births. The UK rate is 3.25 deaths per 1000 live births. My point is that we don't spend the money well. The NHS is a bottomless pit. It will always be underfunded because it can always use more money.

[@steveelliott9746]

@peterholden3672 Thanks Peter. I found some 2022 figures from Statista which put Germany at 12.7, France 11.9 and UK 11.3 which was still more that Switzerland, Belgium, Sweden, Holland and Spain. I should say I'm not at all an expert by I am interested in the subject. According to the ONS the UK figure for 2023 was low because our GDP rose faster than health spending in that year. It also mentions that the 10.9 figure is not equivalent to NHS spending but is made up according to international standards for comparison with other countries.

[@lindapayne1595]

Cardwell let him speak, instead of interupting all the time.

[@nigeldix4841]

Public sector are wasteful, it should be about patient care br it the NHS or private sector, the NHS can pay the private sector to treat patients,

[@jimbo-yv5jh]

Alia is looking after her job. rNHS NOT the envy of the world.

[@nigeldix4841]

Can she come to Wales 25:years Labour failure, Wales has the worst health services in the UK Scotland is second England has the Best

[@stequality]

Get what you vote for

[@run2cat4run]

This is what Tories wanted to do, let NHS struggle and then sell it off

[@stevehayward1854]

Thats the Labour plan also, Labour got rid of our NHS Dentists in 2005 with the New Dentist Contract. in 1951, the Conservatives quadrupled the NHS budget to allow it to get off the ground, does that sound like some one who wants it to fail ?

[@jonfallis305]

covid madness?