Tank Ramming - Revisited

We found a military manual that instructs tankers to ram other tanks. In this video Nicholas "The Chieftain" Moran and I will look at the instructions, the provided figure and discuss if it makes sense, why it was done, what could be achieved and many more aspects.
Cover design by vonKickass.
Screenshot by Tobias with the game War Thunder.
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our brains & see video
00:00 Intro
00:30 Shuffling Papers
01:27 Figuring out what is on the Figure
02:44 But Why?
03:16 Syria M113 rams T-72
03:55 Truck Trailer vs. M1 Abrams
04:24 Mobility Kill
05:01 Traditional Reasons?
05:23 Wehrmacht vs NVA Manuals
06:02 Back to Tradition Question
06:47 Technically it will work
08:02 Found an Example!
09:04 Corrections about previous video
#tankramming #ramming #tanks

[@MikaelKKarlsson]

- Ramming speed! But sir, we're an infantry support tank. - Oh well then, fix bayonets. Jolly good sir!

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

😁

[@cyberiankorninger1025]

Drive closer, I want to hit them with my bayonet.

[@dudududu1926]

Remind me of Austin Power's steamroller scene.

[@johnathanblackwell9960]

Getting chased by a Matilda would suck, yeah you're going to get a way until you're sucking wind and it keeps crawling towards you at walking speed

[@MikaelKKarlsson]

@@johnathanblackwell9960 while the crew is having tea and crumpets, watching your agony.

[@brstahl]

“Out of fuel, become a pillbox. Out of ammo, become a bunker. Out of hope, become a hero.” S.M. Stirling used it in one of his books, but he often has his fictional characters use quotes from other sources, both real and fictional.

[@tarlneustaedter]

😊

[@dymed1366]

The Beast of War is an amazing movie. I'd love to see The Chieftain react to it live

[@paulmanson253]

I have several of his novels. Which one was this from ?

[@brstahl]

@@paulmanson253 The Stone Dogs, the third of the Draka books.

[@paulmanson253]

@@brstahl Thank you.

[@TTex11]

There's something hilariously wholesome about you guys nerding out about the identity of the tanks in the illustrations.

[@markaxworthy2508]

Not directly about tanks, but about a smaller vehicle damaging a larger armoured one. In Rhodesia I had a 5-ton Puma mine and ambush protected armoured truck. This was based on a Nissan truck and the extra weight of the armour used to wear our brakes out very quickly. I was remiss in not attending a monthly service by the Central Mechanical Engineering Department (CMED) at Mtoko and my brakes were very soft and spongey. I decided to refuel at a CMED petrol station immediately opposite the Rhodesian parliament building, which was painted a tasteful light grey. However, there was an Army Land Rover at the pump, so I put on my brakes. However, they did not operate well for the reasons explained and I rolled forward at low speed and hit the left/rear of the Land Rover. The Land Rover just bounced forward and was essentially undamaged. However, the left of my front bumper was bent back so that it cut into my left/front tyre. Our tyres were half full of water to dissipate mine blasts. The pressurised tyre therefore exploded sending the water spraying across the road and onto part of the frontage of the Rhodesian parliament building. Unfortunately, the water was a dirty brown colour and left spots of brown on very visible segment of its tasteful light grey paint. The Land Rover drove off happily but I lost an hour while CMED bent my bumper back and replaced the tyre. I don't remember telling the parliamentary staff of the incident, but the building's frontage had been repainted by the time I next passed. A quick thank you to the late Bill Barkiss of CMED Mtoko, who worked tirelessly throughout the war to keep all our vehicles on the road under very demanding conditions and often at high risk to himself. Sadly he was murdered in an ambush after peace in 1980. He is one of my unsung heroes.

[@MrArgus11111]

Chieftan's quote is from The Beast. One of only a few decent tank focused movies.

[@GutkowskiMarek]

The quote went. "We are tank! Take our threads, We are artillery! take our gun, we are pillbox! Take our armor we are heroes!"

[@dwaneanderson8039]

His other quote is from Galaxy Quest. "Never give up! Never surrender!"

[@HoverLambo]

"Out of fuel become a pillbox, Our of ammunition, become a bunker Out of time, become heroes.." at least thats how I remember it...

[@scottclark7559]

@@HoverLambo I haven't seen the movie in a long time, but that's exactly how I remember it too...

[@MaxRavenclaw]

@@dwaneanderson8039 Never surrender was also a Halo song IIRC.

[@heidiwilks5316]

I can't imagine tank ramming would've been much of a thing in WWI, with a Mark IV steaming towards an enemy A7V at the blazing speed of 6 kph.

[@robingallagher8605]

There's the famous series of photos of a Stug III crew extracting the crew of a T-34, having rammed it. Stug's left sprocket wheel is right off. German with a pistol has a bandaged head, I think from hitting it when the Stug stopped suddenly.

[@teamidris]

Yes, the assumption is to damage the tank by ramming it, but damaging the crew works just as good.

[@tomaszmalinowski4316]

just a layman's comment to the discussion of ramming anti-tank guns (around 7:15): the handbook you discuss was printed in 1975, but it's marked as the "third extended edition". so maybe it was originally written in early 1950s, when towed anti-tank guns were still a thing, and they just kept reprinting the same manual every couple of years. I imagine these kind of handbooks tend to physically wear down quite quickly from being read multiple times by multiple soldiers, being thrown around and battered down in soldiers' backpacks or tanks' interiors, with multiple cups of coffee and bucketloads of cigarette ash being spilled on them etc., so you have to reprint them every so often just to replenish the basic library, and not always do you update them according to latest developments in technology and tactics.

[@Bluehawk2008]

I have a copy of the 1984 edition, and while the illustration of rolling over an AT gun remains (with the very useful footnote that the crew should be engaged with the coaxial machinegun first), the passage about tank ramming has been cut out.

[@DOMINIK99013]

The anti-mine variant of the T-64 without a cannon recently knocked out the crew of a Russian BMP-2 with a ram

[@TheArklyte]

?

[@DOMINIK99013]

@@TheArklyte ??

[@TheArklyte]

@@DOMINIK99013 ???

[@DOMINIK99013]

@@TheArklyte I dont kwon what you still dotn understand, T-64AK drived against BMP-2 a with hit wounded it crew that they werent able to operate vehicle more.

[@TheArklyte]

@@DOMINIK99013 how something as precious as MDK-3(idk what else can you mean as T-64AK is a command variant of T-64A and I never heard about demining vehicle on T-64 chassis) was anywhere near russian BMP-2 8 months ago?

[@somtngwong7781]

I recall Prof. Neitzel stating that peacetime armies produce much more paperwork than wartime armies. Obviously something has to be written on all those extra pages.

[@jerrymiller9039]

In Desert Storm I had a track broken on a AVLB. The blade of a bulldozer on one trailer clipped the AVLB that was mounted on another trailer. We were able to fix it with just some spare track

[@randomnobodovsky3692]

Just curious: how many men were needed?

[@jerrymiller9039]

@@randomnobodovsky3692 Too far back to remember but not alot maybe four

[@randomnobodovsky3692]

@@jerrymiller9039 Okay, thank you. Sounds like a good design, well-trained crew or a combination of the two.

[@OldMusicFan83]

Bernard, I really enjoy your videos. I’m an American Cold War army vet. Love your interactions with the Chieftain too! Awesome

[@unclejohnbulleit2671]

You guys need to interview some former East German Tankers to get more information from them. You could ask them tons of questions.

[@richardburgess8657]

Always a pleasure to hear from the Chiefdan. 👍😎

[@mensch1066]

If I remember your discussion with TacError about Cold War plans from years ago, the idea that Warsaw Pact officers were given no freedom to use initiative is an incorrect assumption. However, the Soviet approach was very much to drill everything from muscle movements to higher level tactical deployments to the point that they could be operated by the unit or individual involved without any real thought. I wonder if this is part of that approach - discuss even very remote prospects in surprising detail so that if a tank commander is confronted with such a situation he is able to respond without having to come up with totally unique ideas on his own (the latter actually being what the Eastern Bloc didn't like - you could use your own initiative, but only by choosing from among a pre-approved list of options, if I understand correctly).

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

Yeah, I had a preliminary look at WW2 Soviet Manual for tank units and it is widely different to the German one. I have yet to look a Bundeswehr manual, so far I only know the NVA manuals, but those things are great for me - as mentioned - since they cover nearly everything.

[@mikkyd656]

Good to see such great minds working together

[@njake19]

I could see ramming as the manual stated for extreme emergencies. Maybe someone got surprised by the other and the gun isn’t ready. Noticed that it even mentioned where to ram the opponent in the idler or sprocket and not just head on. It was never meant to be the number one way to kill a tank but if you are that close already, someone is most likely surprising the group!

[@petesheppard1709]

Came for the anecdotes, was not disappointed. 😎 I think that ramming would be an impromptu maneuver that could occur in an extremely close melee, perhaps due to low visibility and/or obstructed battlefield. Given modern sensors, it's even less probable, (or possible) today.

[@anttieskelinen1]

Finland had: PaK 38 (27 pieces) 1942 - 1986 7.5 cm Pak 97/38 (46 pieces) 1943 - 1986 Pak 40 (210 pieces) 1943 - 1986 Also normal artillery units are still today trained for direct fire. Side note prototype of using T-54`s D10-T guns as antitank guns completed in 30.3.1989. Maybe the last try to make new antitank gun. Looks that someone have even made wikipedia article about it in English "Tampella 100 PSTK."

[@henrihamalainen300]

There was also heavy recoilless rifle "95 S 58-61", also known as "Musti". It was kept in service until 2011.

[@anttieskelinen1]

@@henrihamalainen300 also missile systems but my point was to aswer to the video.

[@michaelblum4968]

Brassey's Artillery of the World (1977) has a chapter on anti-tank guns and guided weapons. Looking only at AT guns (but no Warsaw Pact weapons, not recoilless rifles, and not guns mounted on a vehicle) that East Germany might face: West Germany had trials of a 90mm AT gun, a strange wheeled gun with an built-in little self-propulsion unit. "In trials". The same gun as on the Jadgpanzer Kanone. Switzerland had the M50 and M57, 90mm guns. I imagine there were a lot of pre-1960 AT guns in storage, as well, and HEAT rounds for other guns.

[@pickledpotato4771]

Probably late to the party, but here we go. the quote is featured in movie The Beast and goes like this: "You know our standing orders. Out of commission, become a pillobx, out of ammo, become a bunker, out of time, become heroes." It's possible the quote originates from somwhere else though.

[@exploatores]

Coldwar era Sweden had all kind of Obsolite equipment. So it wouldn´t suprice me if we had antitank cannons long after they where obsolite. It´s kind of the price of having a larger conscript military. then the country can aford to equipt.

[@mladenmatosevic4591]

Yugoslavia had towed AT guns ZiS-3 100mm through '80s. And probably nobody in Europe discarded all towed AT guns untill they got enough AT rockets.

[@SlavicCelery]

Considering there's a bunch in combat right now......they didn't get discarded.

[@blackore64]

Considering that Sprut-B exists, I quess Soviets never even considered the concept obsolete.

[@hughbeastodonnell3733]

I can think of two scenarios where this could happen. The first one I'm surprised that the Chieftain didn't mention - Lt. Gorman of the 2nd Bn, The Irish Guards during OP Goodwood in Normandy. Then again Chieftain did mention that there were lots of examples of ramming, so that might be why. Gorman crested a hill and found a Mk IV, a Panther, a Tiger 1, and a Royal Tiger while commanding a 75mm Sherman. It was a perfect example of suddenly realizing that it was ram and hope for the best - or die. The second example is something along the lines of Rommel in France 1940 (or the Israelis in a few wars) having broken through the front and finding unmanned tanks or bluffing the enemy into surrendering. Rommel had his tanks run over smaller weapons and the trails of towed guns (IIRC) before moving on deeper in to the enemy rear areas, not sure what the Israelis did. I guess ramming would save ammo for fighting but I'd say it'd play merry hell with transmissions and so on.

[@hughbeastodonnell3733]

Oops ! Spoke too soon. I'd missed the tail end of this episode which mentions other episodes about ramming. FWIW, I figure that Gorman's tank wouldn't have been there to be backed into if he wasn't already trying to ram the KT in the first place. So honours even there - I'm ramming you, and you're accidentally or otherwise trying to ram me, contact wait out.

[@Comm0ut]

Ramming could damage external parts but need not break gearboxes if the driver depresses the clutch pedal (on vehicles with manual gear boxes) on impact which would be natural instinct to prevent stalling the engine.

[@verliebt3465]

There's tank ramming example in one of the books written by Sven Hassel. Don't remmeber which one, but he was a tanker in WW2 on german side.

[@HumphreyapplebySir]

I recall a few occasions in WW2 of tanks running over AT guns. In each case, I'm sure the gun opened fire in ambush at close range and missed, and the driver then took the initiative to run it over before anyone else reacted.

[@AsbestosMuffins]

I just finished reading/listening to Brothers In Arms, i think there's only a handful of times they ever were close enough that ramming or getting closer was a better idea than just stand to and fire a couple rounds, and even those only seem to happen in Normandy where everything was such a mess they seriously could drop into a road between german tanks by accident. Its all based on a mix of battle reports and letters but you'd think if they rammed a tank they'd have made a bigger deal of it

[@trauko1388]

Daskal : [the tank is incapacitated. Daskal hands out a grenade to Kaminski and Golikov] You know our standing orders. Kaminski : What? Daskal : Out of commission, become a pillbox. Out of ammo, become a bunker. Out of time, become heroes. Kaminski : You must be out of your fucking mind! [He tosses his grenade aside] Daskal : Now. Together. [Daskal pulls the grenade pin] - The Beast of War, 1988

[@MGBait]

That quote the Chieftain remembers was used in the movie 'The Beast' (1988) about a Soviet T-55 crew in Afghanistan.

[@tarjeijensen7237]

The Finns around 40 years ago were thinking of fielding a 120mm recoilless rifle firing APDSFS ammunition. But they never fielded them.

[@drmarkintexas-400]

Thank you for sharing 💪🏆🇺🇲🙏

[@jamesrowlands8971]

One possibility that I can think of where this would be a valid tactic, is during a maneouvre operation, to disable abandoned opposition tanks, where there isn't time for infantry to say blow them up. Say you just moved through a village, and there's a Leopard your side saw the crew flee from. But you have to move on. Possibly better to make it hard to recover. That would explain how you get close enough to it, with your gun turned around.

[@jamesrowlands8971]

Same deal for running over enemy equipment. If they're confident enough in the tank's ability to conduct a ram, or a crush, without suffering damage itself, then providing this tactical option to them gives the ability to not use ammunition, while frustrating the enemy's ability to recover equipment. I noted that The Chieftan said "if you've overrun your enemy's position why not just take the artillery", but maybe you expect a counter-attack. Maybe you were a recon in force operation.

[@blackore64]

It does sound like a reasonable option, though I am still wondering is that worth it in terms of potential damage to the Tank and crew performing the ramming.

[@88porpoise]

On the other hand, plugging a couple AP rounds into it would probably do a better job and take less time

[@Talashaoriginal]

@@jamesrowlands8971 In WWII the german tank crews were advised to run over enemy anti tank guns to prevent the crew from returning and use it against the rear of the tanks or recover them. Of course it was at the beginning of the war.

[@jamesrowlands8971]

@@blackore64 so, I'm not a tanker, but I have been trained in a variety of construction vehicles, and they are all engineered to have the ability, quite literally to hit / dig at something with one part of their vehicle, while driving the other parts into something is not advised / could cause injury / failure. Tanks, especially those with the sprockets at the rear appear to be built with a mechanically quite rugged front, along with all the additional armour in the superstructure. Chieftan pointed out in this video that the training diagram showed the T style tanks armour facing the sprocket of the Leopard. This would be a fairly reliable way of producing a mobility kill from my perspective.

[@meinnase]

I mean, the east germans had a part in their manuals about how to perform Kung-Fu with your issued spade in close combat, including essentially climbing on it and doing whatever that wrestling move is called where they climb on a chair and jump into the other guy with both feet.

[@w0lfgm]

I can argue that is the manual....LOL. I love this chanal.

[@tasman006]

The qoute you where talking about was the movie set in Afghanistan with T62 tanks, Isreal gave some for the film The Tiran I think they called it upgrading it with a 105mm L7. The iMovie was called THE BEAST.

[@thedownwardmachine]

That quote was from The Beast by George Dzundza’s character. A great war movie about tanks, unsurprisingly.

[@usauk3605]

Hi, I love your videos, and always find them really interesting. I am starting to write a novel about a Luftwaffe pilot in WW2, and I was hoping you could point me towards some good historical sources on the subject, if possible. Thanks!

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

stukabook.com is always a good start :)

[@usauk3605]

Thank you so much, I am in your debt!:)

[@jakobholgersson4400]

A thought is that if your tank is pressed right up against the enemy tank, which it would be after such a maneuver, the enemy can't actually aim their gun at you. Sure, it could be done nowadays with the short guns that are commonly used, but in a Leo1 vs T-55 battle? Probably not.

[@hiltonian_1260]

What occurs to me is that, depending on barrel length, if you are close enough to hit a sprocket you are too close to shoot. If your turret is inside the radius of the muzzle of your opponent’s main gun then he can fire over you or past you but not into you. He also has the risk of damage if his muzzle is partially obstructed. Still a low probability of getting that close unless in a tight urban situation or dense woods.

[@Pystro]

And being close to the enemy tank puts you into the position where you have the best chance that he acts as cover from his friends' fire. I mean, it's the difference between a 100% chance of them having a firing solution on you and 90%, but if you're desperate enough to ram, you'd take that.

I bought quite a few books that Bernhard used in Videos. But this time I actually already have those :) Got them at Militracks in overloon last year. But I havent read them yet because I bought to many other books that Bernhard used as sources.

[@michaelbourgeault9409]

...'become a pillbox'... I remember the quote from the Russian movie called The Beast. It's better known in North America as starring Peter Coyote as the Tank Commander in the English version. But the quote itself is also in the original Russian version of the movie, which was written by the fellow who played the radio operator. edit - drat, Mr Argus beat me to it by six hours :)

[@Supercohboy]

3:16 I think the strategy was to survive by getting under the tank's gun and stop the APC from being struck with a cannon round, then from there they shocked and confused the T-72 crew enough for them to call it a day and bug out. As would be expected with such an unconventional tactic, I think they got lucky. Had the T-72 crew noticed the APC sooner, they had plenty of time to turn the gun, aiming it with intent to shoot or to force the APC to swerve away in panic. Was the T-72 having engine trouble as well, or did they toggle an ESS system? Maybe the T-72 also had mechanical issues and was forced to retreat anyways. Quite the epic moment either way, and a very cool moment worth mentioning in this video!

[@nova4951]

The beast

[@spot1401]

I want the ramming graphics on a t-shirt please

[@Syndr1]

Dynamic Duo is back to fight against the crime of ignorance.

[@cH3rtzb3rg]

Isn't there a famous song from the late 1950s about that topic? "Ram a tank! Ding Dong! Ram a tank! Ding Ding Dong!"

[@deilusi]

3:20 I believe there is another reason. those wheels idlers/sprockets might be higher than your tank, so if you manage to lift the tank that you rammed, you might be saved from a revenge shot, and save the tank. not ideal in most cases as I assume that would leave a scar, but tank lifted have a lot of issues, and possibly rotated is completely out of action.

[@SamGray]

What if you've broken through and are getting into the enemy rear area and suddenly encounter an artillery piece which the crew is going to try to use as an improvised anti-tank gun? That seems the most likely scenario, and you may have the time to ram it if it's not pointing directly at you. Personally, I'd give it an HE or just a few bursts from thr coax, but, you know, maybe the officers writing the manual were just putting more stuff in.

[@Usmodlover]

Ramming (or more accurately running over) AT guns was pretty standard practice in the Second World War and other conflicts they were prevalent in. Sure you could sling HE and MG fire at it, but if you’ve found yourself suddenly ambushed or so on it’s can absolutely be the most effective tactic if the gun cannot be slung more quickly than the driver can run over it.

[@lepathewarrior4445]

@@Usmodlover Pretty standard practise? Can you give any other historical example of this other than the M3 Stuart in the pasific doing this?

[@Jan-hx9rw]

Sometimes manuals are written by people that aren't looking at it from the point of view of the soldiers who are supposed to implement said guidance. I remember in one class of my Advanced NCO Course in 1987 where the Sergeant Major instructing went on at length over US Army policy for "low-, mid-, and high-intensity conflicts". It was arrant nonsense, and was best answered by another platoon sergeant in the class when asked to provide a definition of each: "Well, Sergeant Major, if you are getting shot at, it might be a low-intensity conflict. If my buddy is getting shot at, it's probably a mid-intensity conflict. If >>I

[@grizwoldphantasia5005]

This idler/sprocket wheel mangling -- are some tanks more susceptible to this than others? Did any tank designers go out of their way to protect the corners from ramming?

Some tanks have a final drive protection casing. But that is to protect it from being damaged in normal use.

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

I doubt it, since if a tank gets that close everything else got wrong like 10 times. Also considering a truck trailer damaged an M1 Abrams, I doubt a protection against tanks would work.

[@NeblogaiLT]

Does the video include the topic of tank barrel fencing?

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

Na, but if I find something in the manuals about it, I will likely cover it in a video ;)

[@LafayetteCCurtis]

Have you considered the possibility that the “enemy” AT gun might belong to another Warsaw Pact country? After all, there were several Soviet invasions of ostensibly “friendly” countries (Hungary, Czechoslovakia, etc.) back in the day. Warsaw Pact guns might also be more likely to hesitate to fire until the tanks got too close.

[@gunnar6674]

Good point, after all the Warsaw Pact was only good for invading its own members.

[@paulgoransson9489]

Sweden had the 9cm pvpj1110 at least (which apparantly is in Ukraine now), but it was mainly polish and ussr forces tasked with Sweden. Can’t recall any real at guns which were in service.

[@nomadicartsarchery268]

Here we go again. However, there are two recorder tank rammings in battle for Belgrade 1944. One was Soviet T34 ramming German 14/41 or something of that sort ,that was blocking the road . Of course if you're in the tank ,you don't know if the other tank is inhabited . Tank was blocking the road and it seemed good idea to do it quickly to keep up momentum. Second was T34 ramming into German tank to block the road that was so desperately needed for Germans to link up 20 000 kampf grupe that was supposed to link up with main force . In this case it worked . Germans abandoned all heavy weapons and broke up in small groups ,many never made it . Some 15 000 got killed or captured. Sacrificing one tank for that make sense. Please guys ,check your sources. I know there will be no response to this ,since I'm not Patreon subsiber ....

[@michaeldenesyk3195]

The quote is from "The Beast of War"

[@MsZeeZed]

01:55 - I don’t think the gun is over the back of ramming tank to “protect” the gun. Assuming the gun is out of action/ammo, the gun is swung over the engine deck to stop it hitting the opponents turret & “fouling” the ramming run.

[@bencejuhasz6459]

"Drive me closer,so I can hit them with my sword!"

[@rogersmith7396]

Telly Sevalas in "The Battle of the Bulge". Had to protect his chickens.

[@morganholsomback4851]

Ive seen a film from perhaps the eastern front ww2 of a tank bowling over a anti tank gun … I’ll have to find that

[@andersjjensen]

If you're out of ammo and the enemy tank is out of ammo... and you know the enemy tank is slightly faster than you. Then perhaps going for a mobility kill by ramming could be an idea. I just don't think I would remember that section of the manual in that scenario.

[@d3faulted2]

I could see this as maybe being a thing in an Urban environment where two tanks come around a corner at the same time? Definitely rare situations but i'm guessing that it did happen enough that they decided to put it in a manual......

[@samiam5557]

Bernie & Chieftain!

[@stupidminotaur9735]

In syria/iraq tank ramming has happened alot with svieds and armor personal carriers.famous video of a rebels groups using a apc ramming a syria army tank tank tried to ram it.

[@stupidminotaur9735]

^wrote this before i listened to the video. in 2003 the americans used some of their tanks to take out enemy cars/trucks with ramming/running them over. Famously a iraqi general rammed a tank with his car he was captured it was an accidently ram but still funny. I think there might have been a few rams with the iraselizs in either 1967 war or 1973 war. rams or touches/bumps...... oh here's 1 usa vs russia rams in syria american and russian soldiers would ram(play bumper cars with their atracts/bmps/hummers/(tanks?)) multiply vehicles have been taken out this way. there's video's of it online. then they(the soldiers) their bases are right next to each other would go to the bar which is between their bases and drink together... i would play bumper cars with tanks.

[@erikvc1789]

From the movie: The Beast

[@ditzydoo4378]

I do believe the other tanks in the platoon of that Leopard-i would have something to say about ramming before the enemy were close enough to ram.

[@burhanbudak6041]

The Chieftain is amused by the cheer idea of, we are out of ammo, ram the tank.

[@Bidimus1]

Wombat made it to the falklands.

[@zhufortheimpaler4041]

well, the eastern block used AT-Guns till the 1990s (and they are still in use in ukraine)

[@Raptor747]

I mean, it kind of makes sense as a last resort move of sheer desperation, when the crew thinks it's about to die anyway and can't bring the gun to fire on the target in time (out of ammo, injured loader, running into a tank around a corner by surprise, a malfunctioning gun/breach/etc). Vehicle ramming was always a big desperation move, but it's hardly too insane of a stretch, considering that Germany actually employed a unit specifically to ram enemy heavy bombers over Germany in WW2--with some success, even, though not enough to be practical. Naval ramming even saw use in WW2, sometimes to actually surprising effectiveness. It feels kind of like the bayonet in WW2 infantry combat--rarely actually used, but there were still times when it was quite useful, though very rarely was it ever a practical option.

[@ycplum7062]

It may be possible to ram an enemy tank, effect a mobility kill and then abandon your tank. Your tank may then block the the enemy tank's field of fire to allow you to escape on foot.

[@AlexBergPlays]

Daskal : Out of commission, become a pillbox. Out of ammo, become a bunker. Out of time, become heroes. Kaminski : You must be out of your fucking mind! The Beast of War (1988)

[@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785]

Of course the Russian tank is heading east to west! As for the towed anti-tank gun or possibly field arty getting ran over...maybe the Soviets just liked the idea of crushing things, and they really didn't care about what it's called and had no use for capturing them since 155mm isn't compatible with their 152mm anyways? I'm pretty sure some Russian general once said "We'll *CRUSH* them!" Probably.

[@soul0360]

The general mindset, that I was taught is. Don't waste materiel and don't waste personel. So I don't really see a scenario, where I'd risk my tank getting immobilised, or my crew getting injured by a ram, as a valid option. But then again, I'm not a tanker. And I wasn't trained in the The Warsaw Pact.. I bet this part of the manual wasn't meant to encourage a ram. But rather, should a driver/commander see a ram as a last ditch option. This is how you maximise you chance of success and survival. It would be interesting to hear what else, is mentioned in this section of the manual, just prior and after the part about ramming.

[@raylast3873]

I mean, just because from NATO pov, they don‘t use anti-tank guns anymore, the other side won‘t automatically stop worrying about them immediately, would they? Also, Artillery does occasionally aim direct fire at enemy tanks, so that could definitely motivate the tanks to destroy the artillery guns?

[@captiannemo1587]

The 90mm T26/M8 might have still been in service as a towed gun in 75.

[@gabrielpetre3569]

+10 damage if you rattle your sabre while doing it

[@lawrenceperson3043]

It's a quote from the The Beast (1988), Soviet tank vs. Mujaheddin in Afghanistan.

[@agt155]

A Leopard 2 once crashed into a Challenger 1 during a training exercise in Germany.

[@RoninTF2011]

Hey, doesn't need to be a AT-gun, you can run over a TOW launcher as well

[@MrChainsawAardvark]

Much of Russian war-planning focused on the idea that the main enemy was time, and not the other army. Slowing down to save a dozen troops today is going to cost you an extra hundred next week when the enemy has received reinforcements. Reactivating a T-55 now is better than waiting four weeks to get a functional T-80, because who knows how many more ATGMS and aircraft will be shipped in by then. So the idea "your tank can be replaced, the hour can not" would stand as a reason for tactics like "crushing things saves ammo, and therefore time spent reloading" or "any success now is going to be easier than it will be later".

[@pavelslama5543]

Considering the videos from the Ukraine from the last few days, I think that the only reason why Russians dont put battering rams on their T-72s is because that would significantly increase the friendly fire damage caused during accidents. Those guys just cant get to the battlefield without ramming their own stuff.

[@whelmy]

There were a few documented cases in WW2 of canadian kangaroo apcs ramming german armor and immobilizing them. a Stug off the top of my head.

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

That would make sense.

[@1historian]

Chieftain is thinking of the movie "The Beast"

[@1historian]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nom9d3d6l6dpm68

[@stalkingtiger777]

Pretty sure the dude who wrote it was Copy Pasta from WW2 manual with updated graphics.

[@nilsklement5379]

#1 Remember every gun that can be used or is used against a tank becomes an anti-tank gun. Every gun. #2 Remember soviet tank doctrine of deep strike/fast attack and not stopping until getting stopped by fuel or enemy. Fast enough you'll run over the frontline into the backside of the tactical fiel where field artillery, long barrel and mortars, is supposed to be/was (90mm/100mm). Fast enough and with enough comrades swarming over the battlefield you might run right into the opponent tank that is surprised, in a defence position or on the march to or from the battle scene. #3 NVA (east-german army) is supposed to fight in the middle european theater aka germany it self not the syrian heights or the Sinai with excellent sniping options. Regular combat distance from 2nd WW around 300 metres. # Addition: Not to forget the crappy reverse speed at soviet tanksand optics visuals backwards. 1+2+3= All this combinates to better be prepared to have close encounters more as often as you would desire and ramming would only be a doable action in absolute close quarters and no other option handy. Yes, NATO forces where prepared for the artritional (?) battle by shoot&scoot (sniping, slowing the red stars downs,rolling to the new prepared positon, sniping again) but how often does a battle plan or expected tactic work out? When shit hits the fan...

[@Martinlegend]

3:16 the Clip they Talking about kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3jXoKZ9j9itqrs was very Suprised about it too i had such encounters in Video games but in real life? 😅

[@boxofstuffsgaming.9200]

Thankyou for finding this

[@mikegould6590]

the quote comes from "The Beast", about a Russian tank crew in the Russia-Afghanistan war.

[@Casmaniac]

I am really curious to hear Chieftains opinion on the Leopards being sent to Ukraine

[@jintsuubest9331]

He will say it is a modern tank with thermal sight, and no more than a modern tank with thermal sight. He will also he does not have a chance to crawl around in the vehicle so no extra insights.

[@genericpersonx333]

What is there to say? They are an old and known tank system with reasonably modern tech. How well they will perform is down to the Ukrainian crews and how intelligently their higher command uses whatever formations are created using the tanks.

[@Casmaniac]

@@jintsuubest9331 Apparently the Germans are sending the A6s, which Chieftain claimed they would not send, very curious indeed. Also I'd like to hear what he thinks about sending the Abrams, which, to my limited knowledge, makes no sense whatsoever outside of a political goal

[@SlavicCelery]

@@Casmaniac Abrams has the advantage of a more established active support system in a non-combat region. Items like Gepard don't have the same level of active production. Not only that, there's a large stock in reserve, that are due for an update. Whatever cold war era stuff that can be moved and upgraded within a few years is fair game. A veritable yard sale of death.

[@Casmaniac]

@@SlavicCelery the Abrams is too heavy for Ukrainian infrastructure, is more complex than the Leopard, and runs on jet fuel. So 100 Leopards for Ukraine makes sense, but 30 or more Abrams seems weird, with the whole logistical mess they are already coping with. I don't know, I wonder what the big picture is here

[@65bravo]

Two German PUMA's practiced that a few days ago .... didn't seem to be a successful undertaking though.

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

That was a mating dance...

[@65bravo]

@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized Happens when you rely on TV instead of sticking your head out ....

[@ihcfn]

I can only think that the gun is out of action or surprise close quarters in an urban environment. Either way it's sketchy!

[@jamesmchenry4708]

The only tank _collision_ I've ever seen or heard of - and this isn't so much a product of an intentional ram as it is poor course layout and tanks turned into competition vehicles with truck bodies on top - was at a USHRA show out west (Anaheim I think?), with two former Stewarts (the Virginia Beach Beast and another monster truck tank that I can't remember,) collided because the final stretch of the two-lane course ran along the first and third base lines of the baseball stadium - with the vehicles going towards each other. The episode ended with the two truck-tanks having had a fender bender, no mention of if either was damaged. unfortunately, I don't _exactly_ remember which show that was but I know I've seen it.

[@paulyoung4422]

The Tank Movie, is Fury starring Brad Pitt.

[@alexandermcdowell4755]

Out of fuel, become a pillbox. Out of ammo, become a bunker. Out of time, become heroes. The movie “The Beast of War.”

[@Colinpark]

Pre-war US Infantry with their AT-rock whistles nervously.....

[@robmarsh6668]

No one ever talks about ww1 tank ramming

[@Jenkin_Jones]

I already can't read left to right, I can't wrap my head around diagrams right to left.

[@kanrakucheese]

It's no secret that being in a car crash *sucks*. I don't know why anyone would think deliberately crashing a motor vehicle in combat would/should be done as anything but a last ditch attack by a crew that's already done for.

[@kazansky22]

I mean, they should definitely fix bayonet on the barrel.

[@Contrajoe]

1:30 I didn't realize Starcraft Broodwar and Battlefield 2 unit pathfinding AI actually had a real-life basis

[@dudududu1926]

*Dragoon flashback*

[@Contrajoe]

@@dudududu1926 Dragoons up a ramp=Black Friday store opening

[@davidbrennan660]

When you have nothing left... you ram them.

[@sapperjaeger]

quote from the movie, The Beast (Russian tank in Afghanistan)