These Countries Won't Let You Go*

[@Tapakapa]

Discuss this video on Reddit! www.reddit.com/r/tapakapa/comments/wj5cup/these_countries_wont_let_you_go/

[@Kladia]

Fr or ong?

[@theconductoresplin8092]

U rock

[@robertjarman3703]

How about North Korea?

[@Riekrt]

Hey a question. How does Argentina inforce voting to people abroad?

[@aquamxrine]

2 hours ago? bros a time traveler 💀

[@Seltyk]

Japan has an interesting, if tangential, citizenship policy. Say you are born in Japan to at least one American parent. By those countries' citizenship laws, you are born a dual citizen of Japan and the US. But once you're 20 years old, the Japanese government says "alright time's up you gotta pick one. Either renounce your Japanese citizenship, or renounce all others". This is because Japan does not permit dual citizenship but understands that you can't reasonable prosecute a toddler for having foreign parents

[@RFLCPTR]

Germany had the same policy until the 2000s, only with the choice being at becoming 18, not 20, years old

[@Seltyk]

@@RFLCPTR interesting, considering Germany is at the heart of the EU and most EU nations (to my knowledge) allow dual citizenship

[@RFLCPTR]

@@Seltyk Germany changed their policy so you can have multiple citizenships and arent forced to any renounciations

[@Seltyk]

@@RFLCPTR oh! I misread your comment; I thought you meant the only change was lowering the number in 2000 XD

[@rzpogi]

To add: the Japanese government gives you 2 years to think about it so at your 22nd birthday you should have already made your decision. At her 22nd birthday, Filipino-Japanese pro-golfer Yuka Saso decided to be Japanese instead of Filipino due to the power of the Japanese passport, thus she can't represent the Philippines no more unless she applies for Filipino naturalization and renounce her Japanese citizenship.

[@xungnham1388]

I knew someone who was stateless from birth. His parents were Pakistani diplomats working in India. Because he was born in India, Pakistan wouldn't give him citizenship. And because he was Pakistani, India wouldn't give him citizenship either.

[@EliasRoy]

He is the son of 2 Pakistani diplomats, why should India give him citizenship? Thank God, my country India abolished that nonsensical jus soli system which was abolished in 1987

[@aiocafea]

@@EliasRoy he is the *son* of a pakistani diplomat OP didn't place the blame on india, they just described the situation by the same logic, pakistan respects jus soli, why should they offer the child citizenship? both very reasonable logical arguments but look how they created a stateless person

[@HipFire1]

wait, don't diplomats sons get insta native citizenship status? why would Pakistan mess with their own diplomats like that?

[@xungnham1388]

@@HipFire1 I'm guessing the policy wasn't originally intended for their diplomats, but for islamic families that didn't completely migrate along the borders when the countries gained their independence. Or it could just be the case that in some countries the national hate is really strong. India and Pakistan really hate each other; they may fight a nuclear war against each other. Once, I had a substitute physics teacher, and she told us this was the first school she's ever taught at where she had to be informed of which students were Ethiopian and which students were Eritrean and she had to keep them at opposite corners of the classroom at all times. Students that had no personal beef with each other, had beef with each other simply out of nationality.

[@HipFire1]

i checked Wikipedia: Individuals born to parents who are citizens by descent only may alternatively acquire citizenship if their births are registered at a Pakistani diplomatic mission. so idk about this story.

[@ziedelouaer]

Tunisia and Germany have a weird combination of dual citizenship. Germany does not accept dual citizens (from certain countries) so they take your Tunisian passport when you get a German one. However that passport is property of the Tunisian government (it's even written on the passport) so the Germans send your passport to the nearest Tunisian embassy/consulate. The the Tunisians just call you and ask you to come get your passport :D Even though everyone is aware of what's happening they keep doing it.

[@bloodlove93]

that's hilarious. it's like the parents take the childs toy away and the grandparents give it back

[@bbl5499]

😅.

[@eisikater1584]

I'm German. Didn't know about that, but sounds like good old German pragmatism, and I like it. "We do not allow dual citizenship, so we have to take your passport. On the other hand, we cannot steal a foreign government's property, so we have to give it back to them."

[@faleilham8334]

The Chad Tunis embassy

[@andreaweber8059]

I am German. I did not know of this, but it sounds very German to me. It even makes sense in my brain - what does that say about me?

[@yuvalne]

Fun fact: the Israeli supreme court recently decided that terrorists may have their citizenship revoked even if they don't have another one, making Israel one of the very few places on earth where the state can force someone to become stateless.

[@Talonidas7403]

@@RFLCPTR they're terrorists. your rights end where other's begin

[@calvinware7957]

Israel making people stateless? Who would have thought

[@tommmicron]

Britain does this as well sometimes... sad

[@hellishcyberdemon7112]

That's anti semitic you can't talk about that

[@antarctica0938]

...false. Israel is quite literally the home of the Jewish people. Antisemitism is hate or violence towards Jewish people. So are you telling me that the Jewish people of Israel are committing crimes against Israel?

[@davidbelgrave1971]

Several Australian members of Parliament had to resign a few years back when it turned out they had dual citizenships they didn't even know about through their parents. Makes me wonder if someone born in Argentina could become an MP in Australia.

[@Viatoriiii]

One of our pms was born in South America fun fact

[@DMfan1994]

There was also the case of Sam Dastyari, who also had Iranian citizenship and spent $20,000 on Australian and Iranian lawyers over several years to renounce his Iranian citizenship just so he could run for Australian parliament. Not an easy process to run for some.

[@dinamosflams]

makes me think if an argentinian can go to austria and have a son that will be an artist in germany 🤔

[@tylerbozinovski427]

Yes, there was also the former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce, who was forced to renounce his New Zealand citizenship to continue serving in his position.

[@TheScramblerTV]

@@dinamosflams If i remember correctly this actually happened one time. The guy seemed like a gentle soul and a real chill fella. He had great morals and wanted the best for his people, and he was a vegan so he also wanted the best for germany's animals. I heard he was so well-liked in his community that on his 50th birthday the entire country got together to celebrate him and bring him gifts. On that day, the generous man paid for the bus fares of every man, woman, and child in germany. And he was a fashion trendsetter with his interesting facial hair.

[@diphyllum8180]

My dad renounced his American citizenship (he had immigrated to Canada) precisely because of the tax BS. It saved us a lot of headache when he died

[@coldsoulanimation7412]

I'm curious, why did our dad dying make things easier? Were you all still *in America* as he did that?

[@TheGreenTaco999]

"It saved us a lot of headache when he died"

[@Bud55]

"It saved us a lot of headache when he died" that's an odd thing to say about your own dad.

[@ellevasc]

@@Bud55no it isn’t lol they’re just saying that had their dad died an american citizen, things would’ve been more complicated for their family.

[@annaleist9983]

Yeah, they could spend less time doing tedious paperwork and more time grieving

[@PatricioHondagneuRoig]

As an Argentine I KNEW you were going to save us for last. One does not simply renounce Argentine citizenship.

[@u0aol1]

LOL I've lived in Argentina for 10 years, started my family here, have permanent residency and I didn't know you couldn't renounce your citizenship. Learn something new every day!

[@mati4252]

The government can revoke it for treason I think

[@u0aol1]

@@mati4252 You are absolutely right. ARTICLE 7.- Native Argentines shall lose their nationality: a) when they become naturalised in a foreign State, except as provided for in the International Treaties in force for the Republic; b) for treason against the Fatherland, under the terms of sections 29 and 103 of the National Constitution.

[@AussieBall_Animations]

Hi im Australian:)

[@bummer7736]

You dont*

[@vw1zard]

As someone living in argentina currently, I now understand why my parents made such a big deal to have me born in the US

[@JustAlice_Mai]

Argentine citizenship is easy to get, no problem The impossible part is renouncing it

[@_n00b]

The real hard part is escape from argentina, cityzenship is the minor of You problems Soy de Argentina

[@floppyearfriend]

Do you not run into any problems when it comes to dual citizenship? I got from the video that the US doesn't allow dual citizenship, although I may have misunderstood. Regardless, yeah, I suppose that's one of the interesting things about the US. As long as you're born on their land, you're automatically considered an American citizen.

[@floppyearfriend]

@@_n00b Flaco ese es el tema, si mirás el video te das cuenta que en sí si no podés perder la ciudadanía entonces en cierto sentido no podés escapar nunca de Argentina jaja. Lo cual en cierto sentido es irónico, si te fijás como el gobierno odia a los cipayos vendepatria y coso.

[@AlfaEcho]

@@floppyearfriend the Us definitely allows dual citizenship (in fact I know people with triple citizenship, one of them US) Just out of curiosity, from where in the Video did you get the impression that the us doesn't allow dual citizenship?

[@KioAMVs]

Having looked into the US process, it is actually even harder than you claim, because first: you don't want to renounce, that's for enemies and tax evaders. You WILL be treated as a traitor. If you're poor, as most are, then you want to relinquish, but you left out that this requires multiple meetings, and at the end of it, the US retains the right to simply say no. For whatever reason the officials feel like. It may be possible in general, but for some people, it is impossible. Always. And you left out the shame list. All those who lose citizenship have their names and addresses published. America really, really, really hates losing citizens and Congress wants to make it as painful as possible.

[@jonathanodude6660]

wtf? where is this published?

[@toddgardner6355]

It is easier to change your name. Move to a country that does not have a trade agreement with the USA, become a citizen of that country, legally change your name in that country and let your old name die. In the USA if you don't exist on paper for 7 years you can be declared legally dead. Dead people are no longer citizens.

[@KioAMVs]

@@history8192 Yup. They don't want to hide it. They want you to know, so they can discourage you from doing it. Scare tactic.

[@johnmcconnell7052]

Hate to say it but yep the US has the issue when someone wants to leave the citizenship behind we are pretty much taught to think anyone who leaves American citizenship behind is basically saying fuck America and that it means betrayal. Most tend to stick to this mindset not all of them do however, some of us do realize there are reasons to leave the citizenship behind of a country. Admittedly I will likely keep my citizenship simply for the rights that I have as a born citizen while if I was to visit without the citizenship the rights become guidelines for US government hence I dislike the idea.

[@Soruk42]

seemed easy enough for Boris Johnson - he was a dual British/US national, but he had the distinction of becoming the elected British Prime Minister.

[@floppyearfriend]

The fact that all Argentina does is give you a certificate that says "dude trust us" and that people may or may not accept is *the* most Argentine thing ever. A few weeks ago I got my name legally changed, and at the end they took my old ID card, cut the corner with a scissor to invalidate it, then gave me a piece of paper that said I was in the process of getting a new ID and told me to show it if anyone ever gave me trouble over the invalidated card. The very same day, I go to the mail to pick up a package and they didn't want to accept my invalidated card even after I showed them the document...

[@Hans5958]

Name change reasons aside, this seems like a bandaid approach since name changes are quite rare, and one does not simply learn if a certain document is actually real or not.

[@ironcito1101]

@@Hans5958 Name changes are not so rare. Trans people alone are a sizeable and seemingly ever-larger group. Then you have people who don't want to be associated with their parent(s) for whatever reason, people who just don't like their name, artists who legally take their stage name, and so on. I know of plenty of cases, even in my family.

[@docontra4921]

@@Hans5958 These issues pop up not just on name changes, it's on any change at all (including "Oh, my document expired, I'll have to renew it", and "Oh, I moved[1], I'll have to change my document") [1]: Argentinian law states that if you change your address, all your gov. issued documents (ID, Driving License) expire within 90 days and you must update them in that period (but few people do because Argentina, to the point that the government unofficially has the concept of "Real address" and "Registered address")

[@docontra4921]

@@Physche Try "work visa residents getting their ID[1] _after_ it expired" 😉 based. [1]: Their only proof of not being illegal immigrants after 90 days in the country, and required to get a bank account and utilities

[@docontra4921]

As an Argentinian resident I once lost my ID (pre-card), and I had to wait an entire year to get the "dude, trust us" certificate. And when I finally got the citizenship, I had to surrender my ID and all I got in return was a photoless paper saying "this dude is in the process of acquiring citizenship". Still beats what happens if you have Brazilian citizenship while living abroad most/all your life and haven't kept up with your paperwork tho...

[@csolisr]

Costa Rica is an interesting example. Citizenship is non renounciable, and until very recently it was not legal to hold another nationality either. However, our legislative powers had to craft an amendment to allow for dual citizenship due to a specific person: namely the first Central American born astronaut, Franklin Chang-Díaz, who had to become a US citizen to be enlisted in the NASA, which is technically a branch of the army.

[@I_am_somebody_1234]

Yeah. Once a tico, always a tico

[@meta567]

I don't believe NASA is a branch of the military. It was established as a civilian agency with civilians in charge of it. This means that people in the agency's leadership must not be active members of the military (they can be former military, however). They do work with the military (primarily Air Force and Navy) to contract astronauts who are on loan from the military. However, there are also civilian astronauts who are not part of any branch of the military. There is, however, a branch of the U.S. military is dedicated to space, the U.S. Space Force (formerly part of the Air Force).

[@nekajuii]

Last place I expected to find another Costa Rica, specially with a top comment lol

[@memebandit]

NASA is a civilian agency and many non-military US persons have flown on NASA missions.

[@IoT_]

@@nekajuii Pura vida

[@Psyk60]

This reminded me of a court case in the UK. There was a woman from Northern Ireland. Something unique about Northern Ireland is that it's part of the UK, but people from there are entitled to Irish citizenship as well as British. So she had an Irish passport. She wanted to get residency for her non-EU husband. The UK is quite strict when it comes to spouse visas, but at the time the UK was still in the EU and she could use her EU free movement rights to allow her husband to live with her. So she applied for that as an Irish citizen. The British government rejected her request. They told her that because she was born in the UK, she also has British citizenship, so the EU free movement laws did not apply. But she could renounce her British citizenship, and then re-apply. Doing that wouldn't affect any other rights because Irish citizens have equal rights in the UK. But she refused to do that, because it would mean acknowledging she had British citizenship in the first place. She argued that according to the Good Friday Agreement, the UK had no right to force citizenship on her in the first place, and that she had the right to be treated only as an Irish citizen. So she took the government to court. Not sure what the eventual outcome was. The British government gave her husband residency anyway, and now the UK is out of the EU the original issue doesn't apply. But she continued with the court case anyway as a matter of principle.

[@kiradotee]

Other funny cases is giving birth in Northern Ireland so the child gets both British and Irish citizenships. Although some terms and conditions apply.

[@jonathanodude6660]

i dont see how the british government could lose here. anyone born on (certain areas of) british soil is automatically a british citizen. northern ireland is within the uk, so she gets full access to the complete british citizenship by birth that everyone else in the uk gets. yes, she has to renounce her british citizenship to not be british. though, im a bit confused as to why she had to use EU movement law in the UK over UK law, nor why she couldnt use the EU movement law to get him to ireland and then "move" to NI afterwards. the UK was non-schengen whule it was in the EU. no EU movement law applied to NI nor the rest or the UK if you were a non-UK citizen of the EU.

[@Psyk60]

@@jonathanodude6660 Well it's not technically true that *anyone* born in the UK is automatically a citizen, but yes, under British law she gained citizenship at birth. Her argument is that she claims automatically giving her British citizenship violates the Good Friday Agreement, because according to that people from Northern Ireland have the right to be British or Irish. I just looked up the case, and in the end she actually sort of won. The UK government agreed that the EU family settlement scheme would apply to people from Northern Ireland without having to renounce their British citizenship. Easy to see why they gave in though. This happened while the UK was leaving the EU, just before free movement rules stopped applying anyway. Going forward they can impose the same rules to spouses of Irish citizens as they do for British ones. So there is no longer any reason for the British government to continue arguing against it. As for the free movement thing, it's not related to Schengen. EU citizens have the right to live in any other EU country, regardless of Schengen. And they also have the right to bring their non-EU spouse with them. However that only applies to citizens of other EU countries. It doesn't say anything about how countries have to treat their own citizens. So UK immigration law was more restrictive than the EU free movement laws. As she was a British citizen in the government's eyes, the UK rules applied, not the EU ones.

[@ridanann]

Northern Ireland will soon enough by a principality of Ireland proper given the UK literally does not give a s*** about it any more from a Celtic prospective we don't care we are a ethnic group we are not a nationalistic bunch of c**** and from the English perspective well they don't really care about anything outside of London basically they don't want to join in like a lot of foreigners come here content to be a separate people for over 1000 years it's like renting a bedroom to an antisocial person

[@petermgruhn]

Thank Heavens we have governments, or nobody would ever be able to live with their loved ones.

[@gigog27]

Bulgaria has compulsory voting and still elections have around 37-40% participation, because there is no punishment for not voting

[@zach_c]

In Australia you get like a $20 fine; it’s barely anything lmao

[@captain61games49]

@@zach_c why shouldn't you vote??

[@KarlSmith1]

@@zach_c Way back when, it was $50, when $50 was a sizable fine. It's the only government charge or fine I know of that has actually been lowered, not raised, over the years. It's almost as if the politicians don't really care about the participation rate, despite all claiming to support compulsory voting.

[@spaghettiisyummy.3623]

@@KarlSmith1 It's because the People who are More Likely to vote for their Opposition don't vote.

[@sohopedeco]

In Brazil, it is also mandatory and you have a R$3 fine (less the one dollar) for not voting. Until you pay it, you can't get a new passport nor be hired as a civil servant.

[@nordwind1841]

Some funny tidbits about being (or becoming) an Argentine citizen: Acquiring argentine citizenship is as easy as just coming here, staying a few years, and then asking a judge "yeah I want to be argentine", encouraging immigration here is part of our constitution and as such, the requirements to become one of us are quite low. No real barriers to immigrating here either, just come here, state that you want to stay forever...then stay forever (but why would you) Also, since you cannot renounce your citizenship easily (but you actually CAN), many countries, including Austria and Japan have exceptions regarding Argentine citizens, meaning you can become a dual Austrian-Argentinian or Japanese-Argentinian (there are quite a few of those!) citizen without having to choose one or the other. I mentioned that you can actually renounce your Argentine citizenship...well, yes you can, as long as you have dual citizenship (so that you don't end up stateless afterwards), the issue really is that Law 346 (the "Citizenship Act") simply doesn't provide any legal procedure for losing your citizenship, so losing it requires going to a Federal Court and asking very nicely to have it revoked. No, really, it is that simple, since matters not regulated by law are left to the judicial system to resolve.

[@omarevans2715]

There’s no US law setting out the procedure for renunciation either; it’s an administrative thing where the government just decides to ignore your existence since you’re somewhere else.

[@haraffael7821]

I understand why Austria and Japan have it, after where our guys went after WW2

[@JaysonGamboa]

Thanks, I was actually wondering what would happen if you tried to get Japanese citizenship as an Argentinian

[@murakyo79]

@@haraffael7821 Argentina has the biggest Austrian community in Latin America and, the japanese is one of the biggest too (There are more in Peru and Brasil)

[@rafa57games]

Argentina encourage immigration, but only as long as you're white and not a Jew.

[@cmyk8964]

Japanese government: “Alright, you’re 20 now. Japan or Argentina?” dual Japanese-Argentine citizen: “Uhhhh... Japan.” Argentine government, breaking down the wall like the Kool-Aid Man: *“CHE ESO NO DÁ”*

[@valenilluminati5685]

I think someone mentioned it in another comment. But because Argentinian citizenship cannot be revoked, Japan lets you have dual citizenship. Re fachero eso la verdad

[@kiousuke2897]

@@valenilluminati5685 Piola B^)

[@NullConflict]

If your citizenship is known to be difficult to revoke (rejection, prosecution, death penalty, etc.) then many countries grant exemption to "no dual-citizenship" laws. Some "no dual-citizens" laws may continue to apply. Example: dual-citizens are legal in Australia but are barred from many government roles and often unable to obtain security clearance.

[@elecman748]

Argentina gov: Y CUANTAS COPAS TENES TAKATAKA PELOTUDO? 😭 👃

[@matias4336]

Gobierno Argentino: No capo, sos alto vende patria

[@jamertheramer240]

In America, everyone loves to tell each other to leave the country if they are not happy here. I say we should donate money to those who want to leave because we make it so difficult to run away from the country.

[@morbidsearch]

@Buck Rothschild They think disinviting college speakers is anti-free speech but they pass legislation to shut down movements to boycott goods from Israeli occupied Palestine

[@ihcend]

Do it yourself. If you want to leave the country, you won't be able to go to Europe and instantly get a job. You need to learn a skill, learning a skill is an easy way to get a job and make money. If you cant at least save up 2 grand with that skill try again.

[@jamertheramer240]

@@ihcend You can have the skills to move but not the money as moving is a lot more money and American wages are inferior to wages in Europe. So I say again, if you want someone out, donate to them directly or stop your whining when they show disinterest/hatred in the country.

[@wolphin732]

American citizens who are told to leave should turn around and demand they pay them the exit tax and the fees if they feel that badly... and I doubt they would be willing to do so.

[@redlion45]

​@@ihcend I'm a dentist who moved to Australia. I shouldn't have had to pay the ridiculous fee and do the insane amount of paperwork to do it. If america truly is "mUh gReAtEsT CoUnTrY" I would have been able to revoke my citizenship for free.

[@walli6388]

Becoming stateless is even illegal according to some international agreements

[@Liggliluff]

And, if I'm not wrong, if you're under the age of 18, and is stateless, you can automatically become a Swedish citizen.

[@walli6388]

@@Liggliluff Well, Rohingya are stateless.

[@quisqueyanguy120]

@@Liggliluff The hell? How does that even work?

[@Liggliluff]

@@quisqueyanguy120 It's up to each state if they want to hand out citizenship, and Sweden decided that the requirements for stateless children is no requirements.

[@EliasRoy]

@@Liggliluff That’s messed up

[@JoeJoeTater]

This really highlights how citizens are more like property than members...

[@drachenzahne9262]

Very true.

[@EverardNorbert]

😢

[@Kokurorokuko]

Assets, I would say. Disposable tax payers for the government.

[@JustSomePerson8]

That sums it up nicely ​@@Kokurorokuko

[@thehun1234]

As a Hungarian, I have to point out that Hungary DOES NOT tax you if you live outside of the country, irrespective of having only Hungarian or dual citizenship. I have lived and worked for decades outside the country, so I had personal experience of this.

[@Tapakapa]

This says differently. assets.ey.com/content/dam/ey-sites/ey-com/en_gl/topics/tax/tax-guides/2022/ey-personal-tax-and-immigration-guide-11-mar-22.pdf#page=620?download "Residents are subject to income tax on worldwide income, regardless of whether the funds are transferred into Hungary. Nonresidents are taxed on income from Hungarian sources only. However, tax treaty provisions may override the domestic rule. Hungarian citizens are considered tax residents. A dual citizen is not a Hungarian tax resident if he or she does not have either a permanent home or habitual abode in Hungary."

[@vulpes7079]

@@Tapakapa that last paragraph literally proves you're wrong. A person who lives in Hungary gets *all* their income taxed, no matter where it's stored, but a Hungarian living outside of Hungary doesn't get taxed on any income

[@harshsrivastava9570]

@@Tapakapa additionally, nonresidents are only taxed from Hungarian income sources (i.e. if you are a Hungarian citizen who lives outside Hungary and doesn't work for a Hungarian company, you will not be taxed in Hungary)

[@jonathanodude6660]

@@harshsrivastava9570 reread the last paragraph. "Hungarian citizens are considered tax residents." you cannot be a citizen and not a resident for tax purposes unless you are a dual citizen.

[@jk-gb4et]

@@jonathanodude6660 yes but "dual citizen" doesn't have to

[@MeanMachine1992]

Being an Iranian is like being in a relationship with an abusive country. First it makes your life a living hell, then it does its best not to let you leave with its useless passport and currency, and if you manage get past all the hurdles and leave, it makes it costly as hell, and even after you've left, you will be haunted by its bad reputation and nightmares everywhere you go for the rest of your life.

[@FinanceWageSlave]

Same with my disgusting Moroccan passport

[@velocirapture89]

So the USA and Iran DO have something in common!

[@CyclingAMP]

​@@velocirapture89 they don't 😂 US don't give u capital punishment Cos u removed a hijab 😂

[@ariyannikdell3085]

@@velocirapture89 do not compering bugati to pride car {trashed iranian car} if you wanna compere you should compere like turkey or pakistan to iran. USA must compere like Caneda or Japan or Singapore. standard of living of iranian no way comparable to average USA citizen my relatives lives in USA for them same job in Iran getting way lesser than USA salary I don't wanna mention about what is right of you in iran litteally i use VPN for all of daily internet usage just imagine that mandetory millitery sevice if you had a tatto on your arm they call therapy doctor for you mental problems because you just had a simple tatto on your arm also they add you in group B, group b just bunch of F headed guys going with you and you will enjoy 3 month with them. so many things i can mention about that but just wasting a time to typing next time mention about country like iran research about that then compare to exact similar country not like USA .

[@headache_7422]

I feel the same way about my country of birth (Russia)

[@Yamezzzz]

The fact Americans, Hungarians, Burmese and Eritreans have to pay tax to their birth country when they're living and working a whole new life in another country is absolutely unbelievably insane. I had to look it up because I didn't even believe it. Sorry to those from those four countries. They're effectively slaves to their country. My next door neighbours are Hungarian immigrants, gotta ask them about this.

[@morbidsearch]

I saw another comment on this video where a Hungarian emigrant said that it's not true for Hungary, and Tapakapa responded with a quote from an article, but the quote itself disproved his claim

[@SatoshiAR]

A few other countries adopt similar systems for law enforcement, for example South Koreans living abroad are still bound to South Korean law in addition to the laws of the current country they're in. I think the biggest example of this is the government threatening criminal charges for Korean expats who dare to use marijuana (recreational & medical) in legalized states. I have no idea how its enforceable though.

[@generatoralignmentdevalue]

I think America has a pretty high minimum income before they double-tax. You still have to file though, and filing your taxes in the US is a very complicated process.

[@laurencefraser]

@@SatoshiAR It's actually quite common for nations to require citizens to uphold their laws even while in other countries (though it's usually it's limited to 'even if it's legal there, if it's illegal here you're still not allowed to do it', and I believe it may often only apply to certain subsets of the legal code rather than the whole thing).

[@BlitzOfTheReich]

@@generatoralignmentdevalue yes, you can take the deduction for $108,000 or use the foreign tax credit.

[@coolg963]

Technically a republic of china citizen. They won't let me renounce without being physically present at a administrative building in Taiwan. Buttt... due to the fact that no country recognize it as a sovergine nation, technically I'm not a citizen because it doesn't exist. I'm just going to go about life as if I'm only a Canadian citizen.

[@liamboote225]

I mean like 15ish countries do recognise the ROC over the PRC, but those are mostly small countries, like Honduras, Saint Lucia and the Vatican, who would have no ties to the PRC anyways

[@pawelzielinski1398]

so you can't really travel with Taiwan's passport?

[@LiteralCrimeRave]

@@pawelzielinski1398 You can, Visa free to quite a few nations, including the US

[@nmplab]

@@pawelzielinski1398 traveling to PRC controlled areas, you cannot use an ROC passport, but they recognize something else called the Mainland Travel Permit.

[@pawelzielinski1398]

@@nmplab Thanks for the explanation, but I was mostly interested how other normal countries treat citizens of ROC/Taiwan, since majority of countries do not have diplomatic relationship with Taiwan or even formally recognize its sovergnity. I am sure that Taiwanese passports comply with international standards.

[@FrancoCastro]

In Mexico in the 80s and probably 90s you could renounce your citizenship in 'paper' you would get the papers saying that you renounced your citizen ship but the documentation would fall in the cracks so you would still be Mexican. All you had to do was to say that you needed that paper but didn't want to loose your citizenship and pay a small bribe.

[@My_Old_YT_Account]

Least corrupt Mexican government department

[@oxybrightdark8765]

Why would you want that?

[@tyler8253]

@@oxybrightdark8765 To apply for citizenship in countries where dual citizenship isn't allowed while also not renouncing your Mexican one.

[@arcturuslight_]

@@tyler8253 Stealth citizenship. What a lifehack)

[@My_Old_YT_Account]

@@oxybrightdark8765 The Mexican passport is surprisingly good, the only place it doesn't allow you in easily is the US

[@deadmanwalking93]

Actually, there is a small group of Zainichi Koreans that are technically stateless, but are permanent residents of Japan. It was a special designation for Koreans who decided to stay in Japan after the war, but did not chose either South or North Korean citizenship. Currently, less than 7% of Zainichi Koreans are under this class of stateless permanent residents of Japan.

[@jamez6398]

Pretty sure North Korea is the most restrictive. They won't even let you leave the country to visit another country on holiday for a couple of weeks.

[@kiradotee]

Or a day

[@mati4252]

@@kiradotee Or an hour

[@안예지]

In the unlikely event that you manage to escape North Korea, you will automatically become a South Korean citizen. Both Koreas claim the entire peninsula.

[@Hattivatti91]

Turkmenistan and Eritrea are also extremely restrictive.

[@Banom7a]

or even move to a different city without permit lol

[@TheYuccaPlant]

Here's an interesting one: If you were to get a Dutch citizenship you have to renounce your old one but after that you are allowed to retake that old citizenship and have them both.

[@somethingelse9228]

What a weird system

[@The-Sharky-Show]

My father never renounced his citizenship and he's from Iran

[@TheMrNalsur]

An acquaintance of mine has had an Austrian citizenship since forever. He's also got a Syrian one. He says that the Austrian government let him keep his Syrian citizenship as an exception because it is illegal to renounce your Syrian citizenship under the threat of death penalty. So yea, he's got both.

[@neeha9449]

well that's interesting

[@johannchlimon4276]

Yes, Syrian citizenship can't be renounced and some countries which don't allow dual citizenship (like Germany) made exceptions for such countries where it's impossible to renounce. They told me you're German everywhere except in Syria and other countries which have strong relationships with, like for example Lebanon. If I commit a crime in Lebanon, the Lebanese government can decide if to treat me as a German or Syrian

[@ammar4082]

It's a curse that's impossible to git rid of.

[@jwenting]

similar with Moroccan citizenship. As you're property of the king and the king doesn't like losing his property you can't denounce your citizenship.

[@dominionian7193]

I have a friend who's a US citizen that happens to have Syrian citizenship because he's originally from there, and came to the US as a child. He does not utilize his Syrian citizenship, it's simply a mere fact that the government there has him listed as a citizen. He applied for some government contracting job in the US, and it look him nearly forever to get his clearance. His Syrian citizenship is not something he can renounce, so yea... having it can be a curse.

[@forestreee]

US be like, “There are only two things which are certain : death and taxes.”

[@Claro1993]

More like three things: Death, debt, and taxes.

[@brandonlyon730]

Funny enough the citizens of Kuwait pay no sort of income taxes.

[@SilverState99]

@@Claro1993 No, you can escape or avoid debt. But there's no way in hell Uncle Sam will let you be free if you don't pay taxes

[@1967-l7h]

@@SilverState99 as a US citizen I am the literal definition of Government property (slavery)

[@jacobjohnson2603]

@Buck Rothschild sounds like someone's bad with money

[@Vortexcube]

Don't forget the US publishes a list of all the people who have renounced their citizenship

[@iamthestig1]

Isn't that illegal under GDPR?

[@laisphinto6372]

isnt that a hitlist?

[@davidslevs]

​@@iamthestig1GDPR is european. The US doesn't have nor cares about GDPR

[@sera_kath]

​@@iamthestig1 The GDPR is an EU regulation. It doesn't apply to the US.

[@annalehman93941]

Russia did the same because it's official document signed by President. So its publishing online like other official documents. It's the law PS. Lists of people who gave russian citizenship are also publishing if its signed by President. But mainly its signed by local authorities and not published maybe because the lists are to long (some years it was more than 2 mln)

[@d007ization]

A little daunting to remember that a lot of countries legally mandate young men to fight other men with guns and incendiary devices.

[@ShadowManceri]

True, but you rather just be a target or actually shoot back?

[@d007ization]

@@ShadowManceri Idk, ending other peoples' lives or lucking out and ending them myself both sound like terrible things. Even if my animal instincts lean towards the former. And the way you worded that somewhat implies that the other side is gleefully mowing down my friends and family, which is uh, propaganda.

[@ShadowManceri]

@@d007ization So a foreign army walks in and everyone just gives their land without single bit of resistance. If you do resist you get shot. And you are there, this is fine, do whatever you want, I won't do anything to protect anything I hold dear? There is major difference attacking and defending. While you have nearly zero justification to attack, you have every justification to defend what you have, including your life. So I don't feel bad if I need to kill someone to defend, assuming that is the only thing I can do. In a war that often is the only thing you can do. For example look at recent war where they are literally killing and torturing and robbing even civilians. At the end, either you care about yourself or someone will end you. Those are your two and only options. And yes, running away is taking care of yourself. But that is not realistic in national level for everyone to do and you still lose everything but your life, if you are lucky.

[@d007ization]

@@ShadowManceri Not usually how conscription works (and even that scenario runs into the gender imbalance of conscription which is another can of worms). But in the scenario you're referring and alluding to.... yeah stuff is fucked.

[@ShadowManceri]

@@d007ization I wonder what you mean by not usually. You said it's daunting idea to have people defending the country. That's the usual purpose of conscription. I would go even further and make it a duty to defend your country. Note, defending, not attacking.

[@trikitrikitriki]

In Uruguay we lived through a very brutal dictatorship, and it's always possible to force a person to "voluntarily" give up their citizenship. Honestly, the real blame should be with countries that force you to give up a previous citizenship. With the world more connected than ever before, why be so strict? I have dual citizenship in Uruguay (from birth) and the United States (naturalized), and I feel like a full citizen of both.

[@rustypwn]

This very much, the video made Argentina, Uruguay and other countries look like the bad guys when they ones taxing people that doesn't live there is United States lol (specially the end of the whole video), and anyway most of the no dual citizenship countries have agreements with our countries to permit dual citizenship tho (at least the most desirable to live there ones like Japan, Austria, Bahrein, Germany, etc)

[@leandrotami]

Definitely, the issue are countries who force you to renounce, not countries that will always recognize you as one of their own.

[@DogDogGodFog]

@@leandrotami The problem is that they force citizenship duties onto you even if you have nothing to do with the country anymore.

[@arseniysanin5510]

So is it worth emigrating to Uruguay?

[@rzpogi]

In the Philippines, Filipino dual citizens who are natural born Filipino from birth are allowed to do everthing a natural born Filipino could do except run for elective positions.

[@MyBelch]

I'm American, but have lived in Thailand for 18 years. My citizenship means very little to me. I pay a small amount of tax to the US, then get it all back, every year. Obtaining Thai citizenship is difficult and offers very few benefits. Losing US citizenship would be problematic in many aspects. So, I just maintain status quo. Everyone's happy.

[@ahha6304]

as a Thai having Thai citizenship means almost nothing, and also as a former intern of the MFA (your DOS), please don't apply for Thai citizenship unless super necessary

[@tng2057]

Austria. A certain WW1 war veteran from Austria with a small moustache, after the war, was adamant about his war time service in the German army entitling him German citizenship, but the Bavarian / German government did not agree. He actually renounced his Austrian citizenship in the 1920s and became stateless. It was not until the early 30s when Berlin local government gave him Berlin citizenship that he became officially German. Before he came to power in Germany in 1933, he had been living near the Austrian border and one of the reasons was that if he faced arrest by German authorities he could quickly escape to Austria.

[@cristianpajaro8323]

Lol

[@candyneige6609]

That certain WW1 war veteran turned out to be the most loved person in all of Germany, and he is loved so much by the German population that he's even considered a national hero in Germany to this day.

[@GoatedIce-Spice]

@@candyneige6609 I heard my Argentinian grandpa killed him 😞

[@candyneige6609]

@@GoatedIce-Spice Why are you sad ?

[@GoatedIce-Spice]

@@candyneige6609 read my username 💀

[@gracehofferbert5139]

I renounced my USA citizenship back in 2016... I ended up stateless for 3 years .. It's a long story, but in the end I was able to prove having German citizenship and I'm no longer stateless. I do not recommend becoming stateless by choice! It was a real eye opener for me, but I'm so very glad that I'm no longer a stateless person. Again, it's a very long story, altuhough it was not my goal to become stateless, I want to warn anyone who is considering being stateless by choice against it, very bad idea!

[@blahblah2779]

What happened after being state less?

[@Inisfad]

I would wonder why you would want to renounce your US citizenship??

[@gracehofferbert5139]

@@blahblah2779 I was able with the help of some good friends who lived in Germany, to get some documents on my behalf. Long story, and it's a very long story short, I was recognized as a German citizen, something that I was born with bit never knew about prior. I now live in Germany.

[@gracehofferbert5139]

@@Inisfad , it's a long story... I was trafficked with my baby and the traffickers threatened my kid unless I renounced my citizenship, which took all the money I had, making me stateless... I thought at that time, that I would be able to go back to the USA embassy if I got us safe and explain myself and that they would be understanding and help us...I was wrong. I was no longer a USA citizen and once it's gone, you can't get it back. I was $@#@ out of luck and In a very literal way .. On my own. Looking back, I wish that I could do many things differently, but at least I'm alive and not stateless anymore. I can tell my story. I will someday, I hope that I'll be ok enough to get it all down in writing someday soon. I hope this answers your question, it's more involved than this, but like I said... Long story.

[@Inisfad]

@@gracehofferbert5139 Wow. I do hope that all works out well for you. That’s a saga I wish on no one.

[@TheRealHelvetica]

There should be a tier above impossible Countries that claim foreign nationals are their citizens. Like the DPRK does with South Koreans or how China claims the Taiwanese are citizens of the Chinese mainland.

[@me0_0irl]

Russia issued Russian passports to Ukrainian prisoners without their consent.

[@sciloj]

After the fall of the Soviet Union, some people who were sent by the Soviet government to work in different Soviet republics (that became independent countries at that time) were practically forced into new citizenship and given no real option besides keeping a no longer valid Soviet passport and losing all their rights there. Obtaining just a legal residence wasn't an option. That mostly happened to people who were from the Russian Federation originally but worked in Central Asian countries.

[@TD-er]

What about the Moroccan nationality. As far as I understood, you're considered Moroccan when one of your parents has Moroccan nationality. Also impossible to give up.

[@MarkLinJA]

The claims are mutual between ROC/PRC and ROK/DPRK. Both come from legacies of the Cold War, both legally see each other’s territory as a part of a united whole over which they’re the sole rightful govt and both states are legally obliged to reunify with the other in a West & East Germany way. Keeping the ROK thing is actually useful because it actually gives the North Koreans a path to escape and receive ROK diplomatic assistance

[@idontexist1511]

China is quite lax on loss of nationality because: 1. The law is unclear enough that it technically renunciation without other citizenship even when you'll become stateless. (Nowhere in the Chinese nationality law that prohibits this) 2. Any foreign nationality acquired at free will means you automatically lose Chinese nationality.

[@mjp121]

Tangential- Gaining citizenship kn the Netherlands (among other places, I'm sure) generally requires renouncing previous citizenship UNLESS doing so would incur significant costs. Some years ago, an American citizen argued in court that the $2,000 fee to renounce was equal to a month's expenses for him, and a month's worth of expenses is certainly a significant cost. The court agreed, setting precedent for low to mid income American immigrants.

[@docontra4921]

Note that, while Argentina does in fact have compulsory voting, you are not required to vote if you can demonstrate to your nearest Argentinian consulate/embassy that you're residing abroad (including neighboring countries). You then can enroll to vote for president/vice-president, with no punishment for not showing up to vote. Argentinian law also has a provision to waive all penalties/fees if you can prove you were more than 500 km away from your voting station[1], whether in Argentina or abroad. And on the flip-side, Argentina is pretty much the only country I know of that grants entry to Argentinian citizens with more than one citizenship that use a foreign passport (as tourists, and without visa regardless of whether it's required to or not). Pretty much every other country in the world in this case will deny you entry if you don't have the correct passport/ID. Brazil on the other hand does have mandatory voting no matter where you are in the world, and actual serious penalties/fees, but they do allow you to renounce your civic duties without losing your citizenship (you're not getting them back *ever* tho). [1]: This law was heavily publicized in the 2001 midterms as a disenfranchised alternative to voting blank/nullifying your vote. The law states that you must justify _why_ you were > 500km away from your voting station, but in practice it's not required. PS: In Argentina, you can only vote in the voting station that has been assigned to you by the government, based on your declared address (as seen in your ID). Polling places are in alphabetical order, and until ~2013-2015, were segregated by gender (each station had either all men or all women, as declared in the ID; by the late 90's/early 00's there were already trans people that had gotten the gender field in their IDs changed, and since 2020-2021 there's a non-binary gender option).

[@kiradotee]

In the UK you can show up with any passport and say you're a UK citizen. They'll check and will let you in. Obviously you have to say sorry and mumble some reason other than being lazy. P.S. However, you may or may not be able to get to the UK border depending if the airline let's you in. If you have a visa free passport they will but if your second passport requires a visa to the UK they won't let you onboard even though UK would be happy to accept you back.

[@yoshiagiota5299]

The only penalty for not voting in Brazil is a R$1,00 fee and that's it.

[@docontra4921]

@@yoshiagiota5299 and, among many other "well fsck you!" measures, not being able to get/renew your passport[1] (especially harmful to expats because IDs in Brazil are issued by each state instead of the federal government, which means that embassies/consulates can't issue them). And yes, I know this first hand because it happened to me (I had voted but lost the comprobant of one of my votes and the consulate -- *where I had cast my votes* -- made me write a letter to the electoral tribunal begging for mercy, which I got). [1]: in fairness, technically also the case in Argentina. But if there's any enforcement at all it's extremely recent.

[@jasonreed7522]

Gendered voting facilities is an interesting concept, in the US its fairly common for an entire household to go together. (With polling places being assigned by address) I assume it was established in the beginning when women were first granted the right to vote and then it was either too much if a pain or considered not particularly problematic so it went unchanged until recently.

[@docontra4921]

@@jasonreed7522 It was a bit of both: Unified ID came ~60 years after compulsory voting for men (about a century after any kind of voting), and ~30 years after compulsory voting for women. Before unified IDs, your ID depended on your gender: Conscription document for men, "Civic notebook" for women. And in a genius move, both of these documents (and the unified ID) have incremental numbers (the person to be registered right after you got your ID number + 1); and those that renewed from an old style ID to the unified ID kept the same number (by design). Which means that most people who was born before the unified ID has at least one more person with the same ID number. And until recently there were still people rocking their OG IDs instead of the unified ones, because none of them (including the old style unified IDs[1]) had an expiration date until a ministerial/presidential decree came along declaring all old IDs to be expired sometime in the mid 2010s. (Bonus: Whenever somebody asked for your ID number they'd also request the kind of ID you had; but some places -- notably Buenos Aires city hall -- now request the kind of ID you were originally granted instead of the kind of ID you currently have, despite also asking for gender) [1]: These would become invalid on your 8th birthday until you went to the ID issuer to add your photo and thumbprint (they'd take all digital prints for police archives), and on the year of your 16th birthday to give you a fully new ID (with photo and thumbprint). After that, you'd only get a new ID if you lost it, broke it, or ran out of space in the "new address(es)" section. I don't know how the new IDs work, but I guess it's a similar procedure here (likely with photos from day one), and after that the ID expires every 10-15 years.

[@stuartmisfeldt3068]

I was born in Iran while my American parents were working there in the 1950’s. I was given both citizenships, however at that time, in the USA at 18, you had to decide between the too. I went to the Iranian consoles and renounced that citizenship. They told me that I was an Iranian citizen by birth rite. This was in the 1970’s. If I was ever to have gone back to Iran, I would have had to serve in the military. At that time the USA didn’t allow dual citizenship.

[@greybread301]

I had a friend who tried to get an American security clearance but was unable because he was born in Russia and was unable to renounce his citizenship

[@spaghettiisyummy.3623]

That must SUCK!

[@brandonlyon730]

Was before or after Putin’s little “special military operation”?

[@greybread301]

@@brandonlyon730 before

[@jvaneck8991]

People who want to play the game of "security clearance" are contributing to converting the Ameerican State into a secret-police State. If "security clearance" were offered to me, I would refuse it.

[@greybread301]

@@jvaneck8991 no one offers someone a security clearance, you have to go out and seek it. Getting offered a security clearance is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard. And like it or not a lot of jobs such as being in the military require a clearance. If you believe nations should not have militaries you’re on another field of ludicrous

[@WaldoHandFord]

This channel is always the best at answering questions I didn’t know needed answering.

[@ShadaOfAllThings]

In America if you attempt to renounce your citizenship you'll have to go through a process that costs on average 2-5k USD. And then that process gets denied repeatedly because the point is to get you both paying to get rid of the citizenship and paying american federal income tax for as long as possible. Sweden has it on record to not recognize those debts, as many other countries do

[@troodon1096]

It's not so much that they care if you leave but that they want to make sure people don't leave on a whim or just to avoid legal obligations. If you want to leave and never go back, you could just well, stop paying US taxes; they have no jurisdiction to punish you for not doing so unless or until you set foot in the US again, so just... don't do that. (They can try to force foreign governments to enforce the tax debt, but that won't work in countries that don't recognize the debt or as a policy choose to ignore debts to foreign governments. Or ones that have no enforcement agreements with the US.) To be honest people with the means to permanently leave the US and become residents/citizens elsewhere can usually afford to pay the fees if they really want to.

[@kenchlife9527]

So... what about the Pope? Is Francis still an Argentinian citizen? Does he have to vote there? Or is the role of Pope above the laws of Argentinia?

[@JustAlice_Mai]

both argentina and the vaticans allow dual-citizenship soooo more than certain that he's still legally argentine.

[@kenchlife9527]

@@JustAlice_Mai thanks a lot for the clarification! this is now added to my shockingly large collection of vatican fun facts!

[@federicodenoia4180]

In Argentina you do not have the obligation to Vote if you are older than 70, so the Pope does not have to vote, but if he wanted to, he could

[@patricioiasielski8816]

Here in Argentina the punishment for not voting is practically null. I mean, if you are a few hundred km away from your legal residence, you are free from the mandate. That being said, it's still a morally dubious thing to force nationality.

[@tommay6590]

See article 2 of the argentine constitution: the federal government has to support Catholicism which includes Catholic rules about the Pope…

[@cinemaipswich4636]

I have 3 passports. I have never had to renounce her Majesty the Queen of her empire. I was born in London. I became a "naturalised citizen" in Australia when I was 18 years old. My father was born in Ireland, and through paternity I am a citizen of Ireland and therefore a citizen of the European Union.

[@pawelzielinski1398]

that's pretty cool.

[@enzheimer]

As an Indian with very limited visa free access Passport, this brings tears to my eyes

[@jvaneck8991]

@@enzheimer Keep in mind that the passport system, designed by European monarchs, was specifically designed to keep people from countries like India out of European countries. "Passport control" is exactly that: control.

[@cyan_oxy6734]

EU citizenship isn't really thing though as the EU isn't a country. You can't have a valid passport issued by the EU, as the EU can't issue any passports. Only your country where you have a citizenship can. Your Irish passport may have European union written on it but that doesn't make it two passports.

[@dmitripogosian5084]

@@cyan_oxy6734 Sure, but you can get the benefits of being a citizen of EU country

[@janeteholmes]

I was born in Zimbabwe in 1960 to an English mother and an Australian father, and now live in Australia. have tried to figure out if I have Zimbabwean citizenship or not, but it’s too complicated. There have been too many changes and there are no straightforward rules.

[@realnoahsimpson]

i think technically you have or are entitled to British, Zimbabwean, and Australian citizenship

[@matheusjahnke8643]

​@@realnoahsimpson That would depend on the laws of these 3 countries... Taking Brazil's laws(these are the ones I'm familiar, I'm studying to be a public servant). I will replace each of those countries In it was Brazil instead of Zimbwabe, he would have been a brazilian national(and may have citzenship if the requirements are fulfilled), *except* if either: 1. his British mother was in service of the UK 2. his australian father was in service of australia (by "in service of " think they worked for their embassies... or if they were soldiers stationed there for some reason... or things like that). If it were Brazil instead of Australia... he would be a brazilian if either: 1. his australian father was in service of -Australia- Brazil (children born to brazilian at least 1 parent in service of Brazil are brazilian) 2. his parents registered him in the proper brazilian repartition(a.k.a. the embassy) 3. after he becomes 18 years old, he resides on Brazil and requests to be a brazilian If it were Brazil instead of UK... it would be a similar case to the last one, where it replaces Australia. Of course... since he is residing in Australia, (assuming everything operated in brazilian rules), it would be easy to be a australian, on the worst he would have just needed to ask for it(children of a brazilian... even if that brazilian is not in service of Brazil and if the child is not registered at the embassy.... may acquire brazilian nationality if it resides on Brazil... and asks for it at after the age of majority[18 or higher]).

[@YourCanadianGuide]

My blood pressure spiked when he started talking about Austrian ethnicity, citizenship and nationality.

[@kyoto9660]

ah yes cause of the funny mustache model i assume?

[@Kameliius]

I thought he was gonna say that we're Germans in ethnicity. - Sad he didn't tho, because we obviously are.

[@yuvalne]

+

[@kyoto9660]

@@Kameliius well yes landesmann

[@hatinmyselfiscool2879]

@@Kameliius german is just a collective term of different ethnicities that fit together because of similar language and more or less similar political connection. I feel like every culture can be put into further sub ethnicities, and bavarian austrian ethnicity is a thing after all

[@luanfonseca5179]

As a person from brazil. Know that we aint allowing you to leave. We love all gringos and you are going to become one pf the many communities of foreigners around.

[@petuniasevan]

There used to be a kind of "stateless passport", called a Nansen Passport after its promoter, the Norwegian explorer and polymath Fridtjof Nansen.

[@ronsed1759]

How to get such a gem nowadays?

[@Pocket-Calculator]

​@@ronsed1759 It doesn't exist. It was created after WWI and it was given by the League of Nations. Today the UN issues some travel documents for refugees and stateless people, but they're not recognized in every country.

[@morrisvarney3604]

As an Australian duel Citizen I got scared for a second

[@yann5489]

same hahah

[@LochyP]

Duel citizen? I thought that was outlawed decades ago?

[@ihatethatyoutubedisplaysyo8106]

@@LochyP ???

[@KarlSmith1]

@@ihatethatyoutubedisplaysyo8106 I believe he's pointing out the spelling error. Dual, not duel.

[@ihatethatyoutubedisplaysyo8106]

@@KarlSmith1 If that was the intended goal, I'll admit I'm wrong, but I highly doubt it.

[@mlechnerscott]

You could make the same criticism of states refusing dual citizenship, as you do of states refusing to release people

[@forestreee]

Refusing dual citizenship actually makes sense; why should you be a citizen if you don’t have an active connection to the country? India does it best imo. Emigrants (and their descendants) can get Overseas Citizen of India (OCI). This gives you right to reside and work and own property (non - agricultural) while being unable to vote or hold a public office. That way, the foreign nationals can stay connected to their families and friends without interfering in the country.

[@arnavsharma8914]

@@forestreee Are OCI holders still Indian nationals?

[@forestreee]

@@arnavsharma8914 Nope. They just have the right to live, work and buy some property.

[@xenn4985]

No, you really couldn't. A passive action and an active action cannot be compared in this way.

[@vinex19]

It would be an easier way to solve the problem. Furthermore, anybody gaining citizenship should be vetted properly, if they are a contributing member to a state and they wish to freely travel back to their family in their home country it would be no issue for me. Clealy if you want to brain drain other countries it is a massive advantage. There is a reason so many US Citizens have dual citizenship.

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

I saw the title and thought "Nigeria". It's so weird that to get my GF to come up here to Europe, I need to write a letter to the government promising to take care of her and make sure she gets back home safely.

[@lazulelle]

sounds more like a visa thing than a citizenship thing, tbh. most countries that don't have visa-free/visa-on-arrival access to europe will require a letter if a resident is sponsoring their stay.

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

@@lazulelle I didn't know it was most countries. Interesting. And the video became about something else entirely regardless. I just thought of my comment from the title and nothing else to go on.

[@seilahqlq1]

​@@TheDanishGuyReviews That's a "Letter of Invitation for Visa" to avoid human trafficking, most countries have this law. Since you have a love affair with her, she could be detained at imigration during an interview without this document since a lot of scammers/gangs use the dating/love scam to sell women. The letter holds you responsible for whatever ilegal acts that can happen to her, this way she is less likely to be a victim of traffic.

[@thedeutschman9905]

Leaving the USA seems like trying to leave a cult.

[@laisphinto6372]

the IRS makes sure you wont go or atleast your money wont go away

[@alternatereality7713]

You can leave but your tax obligations will follow you unless the new place has an agreement to prevent double taxation.

[@VS257]

The IRS is literally the KGB

[@concon9107]

​@MumblingMannunironically yes.

[@aetu35]

thats the IRS for you

[@nahuelsal]

As an Argentine citizen who applied for Japanese citizenship and got rejected because of this reason, I find this very accurate 😂

[@felipea1399]

Weird, from what I heard theres a bunch of Argentine-Japanese here in the comment section

[@lightyagami3492]

​@@felipea1399They were born in Japan though. Big difference.

[@rustypwn]

@@lightyagami3492 sounds more like the other comment got rejected for a different reason... Argentina has agreements with countries with no dual citizenship in order to allow people with Argentinian citizenship to get excepted from that, afaik Japan is one of the countries that have agreement

[@GatitoAzriel]

@nahuelsal Alguna posibilidad de dar mas informacion sobre el proceso y si reintentaste posteriormente? Lastima que el comentario es de hace mucho, ojala puedas leerlo

[@dumdumbrown4225]

India has an auto-renunciation system, and allows ex-citizens to apply for an Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI) that allows ex-citizens permanent residency in India that can be passed to their descendants.

[@yann5489]

My grandfather is american so me and my father have citizenship despite never having lived there, and we've payed thousands in tax to the US getting nothing back while also paying tax in the country we live in.

[@scoutgaming737]

Why can't you relinquish it?

[@Meg_A_Byte]

@@scoutgaming737 Did you watch the video?

[@scoutgaming737]

@@Meg_A_Byte Yes Paying taxes for years is much more expensive that getting rid of citizenship And since they never lived in the Us, the only reason they could get denied is if the bureaucrat analising their claim is an asshole

[@12D_D21]

Genuine question, but what’d happen in your particular case if you didn’t pay your US taxes? I’d wager they don’t have authority over your country, so what’s the whole legislative hierarchy?

[@bloodspatteredguitar]

If your father never lived there, how did you inherit it? A certain amount of time living there is needed before US citizenship is heritable.

[@savroi]

I am argentine, and this is how it went and goes for me being perfectly conscious it is not the case for many other people and in many other countries. I left the Argentine Republic twice thinking I would never come back but I did. The third time I left for work reasons, supposedly for two or three years. When my work ended I decided to stay for a couple of years more, then another couple... then I got married and that was it. It never crossed my mind to renounce my citizenship even though I have now been living in Italy for 20 odd years. I might eventually get the Italian citizenship but that's more of an if situation for personal reasons than anything else, Italy does not constrain me to give up the argentine citizenship. Just to clear a few points (because I've gone through them). Voting for me is not compulsory but I can if I want to. Whilst I owned property I paid taxes for it, now I own nothing so that's a closed chapter. My Argentine document (not the passport which doesn't state a residential address) states my Italian address. I could be extradite for a number of reasons but it is very unlikely: Treason has to be proven beyond doubt and tax evasion has to be infamously high. Military services is not compulsory in the Argentine Republic since 1995 so that's not an issue any more. If I ever decide to get the Italian citizenship (something for which I have more than fulfilled the requirements) I can simply leave my Argentine passport aside and let it expire. I won't be questioned by the Argentine authorities if I decide to use the Italian passport unless there's a warrant in my name and even in that case they have to prove I am the one and the same. One family member went back to live in our country of origin which requires you to renounce your original citizenship, she went to the Argentine Republic Embassy, got the documents that showed it was impossible together with a certified letter in which she stated she will renounce it the moment it was possible and that was that. Again I know that's not the case in many other countries, some of which have next to impossible requirements to get their citizenship. At any rate I think citizenship has too many obligations and rights upon it. In my opinion it should only serve to state where you were born and serve its purposes whilst living in that country. But that world, if it ever comes to be, is still decades away. I don't take pride on my nationality, neither the one I was born in nor the one my parents came from or the one I live in now. I don't believe myself to be "an Earth child" or whatever other to me nonsense of the type. Being born in Finland opposed to being born in Brazil is not mainly about citizenship, rights and obligations, It is about culture, climate and social relations. I will miss my family and friends from the country in which I was born forever, also food, climate and even the language (which I might say has slightly changed in 20 years). I also miss a few things from my country of origin, one in which I have lived only once and for less than half a year, but that have inherited from my parents. If I ever leave Italy for another country I know I will miss dearly friends, culture, food and even climate. I am not afraid of losing my roots or my acquired friends & culture. They will get rusty but they will be with me till the day I die. What the passport states might be relevant under special circumstances but other than that it is just a relevant title, something that says something about me but by no means the whole story.

[@pabblo1]

12:00 There should also be a tier above that, Impossible Squared, with only 1 country in that tier, North Korea. In North Korea, not only is renouncing your citizenship impossible, but you also can't legally leave North Korea if you're a DPRK citizen.

[@kiradotee]

The tier IMPOSSIBRU

[@pabblo1]

@@kiradotee Looks like you're still stuck in 2013. No offense, I still like some 2013 (and earlier) memes.

[@kiradotee]

@@pabblo1 not stuck but tells you I'm old 🤣

[@UnseenJapan]

Very interesting and important topic, Tapakapa . Thank you. As your visuals indicated, Japan is one of the countries that will not allow citizens to hold any other citizenship - something that can be a problem for both those who want to naturalize, as well as children of international couples, who must pick one citizenship or another when they enter the age of majority. Can create major headaches and heartaches.

[@austinclements8010]

in the US, you can also be ex-patriated, which means the Government goes "nah, never heard of em" and you lose your citizenship

[@shanerorko8076]

Here in Australia there was a whole lot of politicians with old commonwealth citizenship to British countries. So they had dual citizenship from their parents which made them ineligible to have a seat in parliament, most didn't even know they were dual citizens. So they all had to quickly renounce their old commonwealth citizenships.

[@ThomasZadro]

What’s valid for Argentina goes also for Brazil. When my wife turned German, she had to present a similar document to the German authorities. Germany, for those special cases accepts dual citizenship, though.

[@dasy2k1]

Thee is an interesting one for Germany as they accepted dual citizenship with all other EU countries without much issue. But what happens to dual British German citizens now?

[@ThomasZadro]

@@dasy2k1 Nothing. The general law is that something that was granted in the past remains valid, although the circumstances change. When I got my driving license it included lorries up to 7.5t. Nowadays new licences are valid for up to 3.5t only, while I am still allowed to drive a 7.5t vehicle.

[@cvby100]

Since I’m Swedish but born and raised abroad, I had to apply to keep my citizenship since I’ve never lived „a significant time“ (whatever that means) in Sweden, otherwise I would have automatic lost it by my 22nd birthday.

[@_SereneMango]

Now I'm wondering about that classmate I had who was born in Sweden...

[@sarah-ut1dh]

same for denmark

[@michinwaygook3684]

In the U.S. it is age 18. Strange country. You can't drink till you are 21 but in everything else at age 18 you are an adult.

[@laurencefraser]

@@michinwaygook3684 Most people look at that and say the drinking age shoudl be younger. Reality is, it's more like some of the other things should require you to be older. Not sure what the original argument for the drinking age was, but your brain doesn't finish developing until sometime in your early to mid 20s. By 18 it's usually not affecting your judgement too badly, by 25 it's set enough that a lot of things that can have a permanent detrimental effect while it's developing no longer do, or require vastly excessive intake to do so where they didn't before. There's actually a case to be made that the voting age should be younger, the drinking age Higher, and that military service is fine where it is (given that the requirement is due to physical development as much as mental capacity for reasonable decision making).

[@michinwaygook3684]

@@laurencefraser Made some good points there.

[@michaelbuckers]

Apparently, in Russia you just have to have a foreign citizenship (since 2002), no tax debts, no active criminal charges, and a ~$50 processing fee. The process takes a while (up to a year), but it cannot be denied - like many legal processes in Russia, the outcome is required to be positive unless you fail the prerequisites (and with reason given in writing). Allegedly, only about 40 applications were submitted in 2022.

[@dmitripogosian5084]

If only 40, then I know one personally :) More seriously, most people who do that, are living abroad, and are applying through consulates (so it is a question whether that line counts). Which became more difficult since the war since consulates are reduced to bare minimum, and it also became difficult to get required certificaets from Russian organizations, such as tax authorities, since there are fees for services, but now you cannot pay them from abroad. But overall, it is a straightforward process, if you have you life set up in Russia (have tax account, government services account, banking). If you never been there for 20+ years, there are some hurdles to jump :)

[@StevenGreenGuz]

When I first moved to Australia from the UK, I was not a citizen of Australia. However I was still obliged to do jury duty and to vote in Australia. I thought that very strange.

[@ShinyLP]

As an Iranian it kinda sucks that I have to keep my citizenship, but it's also kinda cool, because I live in Germany and Germany does (usually) not allow dual citizenships. It is a special case however when the old nation forces you to keep its citizenship, where Germany lets you actually get the German one anyways. So now I have a German and an Iranian citizenship, when most people aren't allowed to have two

[@souvikrc4499]

That sounds great, but if I’m not mistaken, isn’t dual-citizenship illegal in Iran?

[@ariyannikdell3085]

@@souvikrc4499 yes but not really care that much until you be fresh meat for them if that country you just became citizen of it. if have bad relationship with that country you basically possibility will be a target

[@curties]

Some countries make the process of applying for a citizenship a real pain even if you lived their for decades.

[@dominionian7193]

One aspect where the inability to renounce citizenship hurts you is if you try to apply for a government security clearance in another country you're a citizen of. This is usually needed for access to sensitive information in jobs within government, miltary, intelligence, etc. The process may require you to either let go of any privileges the other citizenship grants you (such as holding a passport from the other country, serving in military there, voting etc), or renounce your other citizenship altogether. If can't renounce it, it may either delay the security clearance process, or deny it entirely.

[@LeeviDaVinci]

1:42 you said "but before we go deeper into the renunciation jungle, a quick word..." and I immediately went to the 'skip sponsor segment' mode and skipped 10 seconds ahead before I realized you said "ethnicity" and not "brilliant/audible"

[@MPdude237]

I was looking up US security clearance requirements and one of them is that you may have to give up your other citizenship if said country is not on good terms with the US, such as Russia, China, or Iran. However, if the other country does not accept renunciation, you can mention this and this requirement may be waived or otherwise satisfied. But it has the potential to cause problems elsewhere.

[@freedomdude5420]

Because they know deep down forcing citizenship someone is wrong. I don’t wanna be insultfull, but nobody asked to be born say country

[@dominionian7193]

I know someone who applied for a clearance in the US and is originally from one of those countries. He had to put down something that he's a dual citizen only by birth, but does not hold a passport/utilize citizenship benefits in the other country, and officially renouncing it is practically impossible. His clearance took a very long time to get, but eventually he got it.

[@zuluwhiskey9049]

renounce Chinese citzenship is pretty easy, as long as you have another citzenship and pay 35 USD

[@toddburgess5056]

My ex had dual citizenship. Born in the Netherlands, immigrated to Canada, then moved and settled in Maine. It was always interesting traveling between the U.S./Canadian border crossings lol. They always had a lot of questions for us 😆

[@solomonlam3157]

Imagine trying to renounce North Korean citizenship

[@erikziak1249]

No problem. Downside: You renounce your life too. I mean you will be dead.

[@octavianjoseph8633]

Oh, god...

[@maniacsmaxs6815]

RIP 💀

[@spaghettiisyummy.3623]

Won't the Goverment just take it away from you because you hurt their Pride?

[@maniacsmaxs6815]

@@spaghettiisyummy.3623 Buddy this is North Korea the act of trying to renounce your citizenship is considered subversive and treason. You would be publicly shamed and either send to a "corrective behaviour institute" for life or just publicly executed. Your faith really depends on how the supreme leader is feeling that day. 10/10 doctors recommend you don't try to renounce your North Korean citizenship its bad for your health. It's much better trying to illegally escape into Mongolia,Japan or South Korea

[@Gastyz]

I think the ultimate example for Argentina is Queen Máxima of the Netherlands (born Máxima Zorreguieta in Buenos Aires) she is Queen consort of another country and still Argentinian.

[@mattm.2591]

*cries in American* (Not just it being difficult to renounce my citizenship but also being taxed when I'm abroad.)

[@ErnestJay88]

Rather than renounce / revoke Citizenship, i rather live in the country where dual triple or even multiple citizenship are accepted, so i can go anywhere and when things got bad, i cam get protected from many countries.

[@TheoWerewolf]

BTW, the Tories in the UK were exploring the process to make it possible to revoke UK Citizenship for duals in they felt the person was a potential political threat (ie: terrorist). The UK also has several classes of citizenship and even for a full citizen, restricts voting rights depending on where the person is living and if they've not been resident in the UK for more than 15 years. This might sound reasonable to some people, but until Brexit, the UK was a member of the EU which meant freedom of movement without penalty, which the UK was blatently ignoring. Essentially, the UK was saying "We're in the EU so feel free to live and work in the EU." but weren't mentioning "And if you do, forget voting and other basic rights in the UK." Note, other EU countries do not do this. In fact, France even has elected members to represent those people.

[@RogbodgeVideo]

I suppose there is little chance of countries who, for whatever reason , refuse to allow renounciation of citizenship, to be legally challenged in the international courts?

[@jdizzy90]

I'm so glad I renounced my US citizenship when I was fairly young and broke. I had no assets in the US, never lived there, visited twice, never voted or paid taxes, and I had 2 other citizenships that were FAR more useful for my circumstances (Spanish and Saudi.) I'm also grateful my Argentinian mother never applied for Argentinian citizenship for me because of what you mentioned 😂 Argentina is also introducing a "taxation by citizenship" policy, and that's not something I'm trying to deal with considering I've also never even been to Argentina and will never likely live there.

[@JosephSmith-lm4ri]

All this video has taught me is that taxation really is theft.

[@redlion45]

Then don't go to a hospital or drive on a road

[@madkhaliqfarhan]

​@@redlion45Well said! Hospitals and roads won't exist if you don't pay taxes to the government!

[@scottlemiere2024]

"All documents are checked," meaning you pay a huge fee and they double check with the IRS to make sure you don't owe THEM any money, THEN they check with the states to make sure you don't owe taxes to them or have any warrants for your arrest with them either.

[@WanukeX]

1:27 - Canada actually did have that with the UK for a few years in the 40s immediately after Canadian citizenship was created, since it was everyone dropping British and Converting to Canadian, for a few years when you acquired Canadian it was on the books that they would send a message to the UK Government to have your old British Auto removed. Section 22 of the Canadian Citizenship Act as enacted (was in force from 1947-1950). "22. The Governor in Council may, with the concurrence of a government of a country of the British Commonwealth other than Canada, revoke a certificate of naturalization granted in the said country to a person who resides in Canada..."

[@deingirl1183]

I love the illustrations and the funny commentary

[@ChasetheG]

Kiss used the Aussie flag at a recent Austria concert.

[@blueinmotion9438]

One aspect of dual citizenship that is regularly overlooked is the aspect of dual voting rights. How democratic is it, when, for example, you can vote in Germany as well as in France? Your vote counts double - in the german and the french election, while 'normal' French and Germans can only vote in one country. Wasn't even discussed in university, because no one wanted meddle in this rather delicate matter.

[@YgorSad]

Yeah, that's why I think voting should be a matter of where you live, and not which citizenship you have. Otherwise you end up with things like people living abroad for decades and still having to choose a president in their homeland, or entire neighborhoods lacking proper representation in local government because they're mainly made of foreigners.

[@flp322]

@@YgorSad in the Netherlands you can vote for local government as a non-citizen resident -- but not for national government.

[@mattiasthorslund6467]

I know this was brought up in parliament when Sweden changed its rules to allow for dual citizenship. But the discussion fizzled out because nobody could show there's an actual problem with people voting in "too many" elections. You'd get one vote in the election in country A, and one vote in the election in country B, but not two votes in the same election. I think you get only one vote for the European parliament but I'm not 100% sure.

[@blueinmotion9438]

@@mattiasthorslund6467 I guess dual citizenship/voting rights right now has no significant impact on elections, it's rather a principal question - one man one vote or one man with as many votes as citizenships. Though one might get a problem as soon as there is a significant number of immigrants.

[@mattiasthorslund6467]

@@blueinmotion9438 As long as a person doesn't get more than one vote in the _same_ election, I don't see much of a problem, even in principle. It pales in comparison to the issues of low voter participation. It's also insignificant compared to the individual inconveniences and problems that befall a person who is denied dual citizenship when they need it.

[@jamesdavis9036]

Regarding renunciation fees, given that Jamaica's, Egypt's and Sierra Leone's GDP per capita are much lower (MUCH lower in Sierra Leone's case), I think it's harder for them to renounce citizenship than it is for an American.

[@ralebeau]

I had to pay over $3000 to rid myself of the US citizenship in 2017. The fee had been jacked up considerably.

[@jesusismyking4345]

Where did you go, what’s your new life like

[@incarteminerYT]

Born in Argentina and been denied the Ukrainian passport by descent for not being able to renounce citizenship. At least still granted of Ukrainian nationality (right of abode but no right of vote and no obligation for military service)

[@spaghettiisyummy.3623]

You should thank Argentina for getting you out of Fighting the Russians.

[@seilahqlq1]

@@spaghettiisyummy.3623 🤣🤣😂

[@superdingo9741]

Ukraine doesn't have the citizenship renunciation procedure either. And that was real pain when you were filing for citizenship in another country.

[@franciskafayeszter4138]

Wait a minute... if you can't renounce your Argentinian citizenship then Pope Francis is still an Aargentinian citizen while being the ruler of another one (Vatican). Does he have any obligations towards Argentina as a citizen? Vatican is technically a monarchy, even though it's not a member of the UN (it has a special status). Can Argentina enforce anything against a monarch of a foreign country because ha is a natural born Argentinian citizen who didn't got into this situation by his own will (he was elected by the other cardinals)?

[@Hand-in-Shot_Productions]

I found this video to be quite interesting! For instance, I didn't know Argentina (and others) won't let their own citizens renounce citizenship at all! Thanks for the video!

[@rogofos]

4:52 some countries like Russia have a simplified process for attaining citizenship if you are stateless this is because we still have highly isolated areas where people have lived for centuries without a registration

[@modest_df]

I am from Ukraine, and since we are at war, unfortunately I cannot renounce my citizenship. Although I would like to. Many Ukrainians have European or Israeli passports, for example. Men would be able to leave Ukraine, but our government does not allow this.

[@oO_ox_O]

I know someone who fled an Eastern Bloc country and got their citizenship revocation denied without letting the person know. It was also a country which on some occasions kidnapped some émigrés from neighbouring non-bloc countries.

[@tfld]

Why do the ÖBB ask about the difference between renouncing and relinquishing US citizenship?

[@ehudkirsh766]

Nationality or National simply refers to the country where you are born, raised, and your accent, body language and way of thinking comes from. Nearly everybody has only 1 nationality, but can have multiple or no citizenships. Citizenship is legal status that can be aquired or renounced, but nationality is only gained once when your are young and stays with you for the rest of your life.

[@FranzFridl]

I was about to google how to renounce my nationality. And then I found out it's impossible. Not that matters much, I'm happy on my new country

[@JaggedBird]

For those curious, here's the full list of nations I found that won't let you revoke/remove/renounce your citizenship: Morocco Argentina Costa Rica Dominican Republic Ecuador Guatemala Haiti Honduras Mexico Nicaragua Niger Panama Qatar Tonga Uruguay Vatican Yemen

[@parlok]

North Korea?

[@JaggedBird]

@@parlok you'd lose your life before you lose that when defecting, so it goes without saying

[@noeljolliffe5601]

In Netherlands they use a different strategy for doing that they say you have psychiatric disorder and boom your not allowed to leave the airport

[@TenthSet2]

I thought cancelling my Amazon prime subscription was difficult but oh my god

[@kigon1000]

Idk maybe it's because I'm argentinean but i feel like if you are denied your new country's citizenship "because you can't renounce your old one's" it's not really the old country to blame but the new one. Why would you not give the normal rights and obligations to a person that contributes and works within your land and makes an effort to assimilate into your culture.

[@AnglosArentHuman]

Sensible countries like Japan and Austria, in fact, do make an exception for people with un-renounceable citizenships. I personally know several Argentinians of Japanese descent who moved to Japan and were able to acquire Japanese citizenship without many issues. If anything, it serves as a protection from becoming a citizen of shithole countries that don't allow it.

[@steeviebops]

Great video. Although you joked about Australia at 3:41, it used to be the case that an Australian citizen would lose their citizenship upon obtaining citizenship of another country. Rupert Murdoch is a notable example, he lost his Australian citizenship in 1985 when he became a US citizen.