Tapping the Well -- Speed and Fin Design

"How can we go as fast as possible in small waves?" @JJF and Vince Longo, founder of Futures Fins, pull some old fin and foil designs from the early 2000's back into the mix as John looks to test new equipment in small to medium sized surf. Follow the process that changed John's thinking for daily drivers.
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Factory footage shot by Val Bertignoli @futuresfins

[@jaywilldoit]

These people are so good. I thought a fin was just a fin, and a board was just a board. But there’s so much that goes into all of it. Respect.

[@HiloBoiz808]

Many years ago George Greenough said that if pros new how important fins are they would put their money into developing them.

[@chaunceywilliams8405]

Just amazed at how much surfing has changed in the last 50 years. My first board was a 10' 2" Con log that weighed 30 lbs. I had a trailer on the back of my bike to transport it to the beach in Malibu. The speed and turns your make would have been alien back then. Cheers.

[@xyzct]

Add to the amazing list: wetsuits, tow-in, Teahupoo, getting barreled at Jaws, the size of waves chicks are riding, ... Surfing hasn't even remotely plateaued.

[@chaunceywilliams8405]

@@xyzct True. Technology has changed everything. Just an example of how hard it was to maneuver a board kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6mZh4xno811qpo

[@markbunte1774]

Don’t forget leashes, growing up near Dana point (before the harbor) as a little kid I would pull the loose boards up onto the sand. Back then we were mo better swimmers !!

[@ryliek6832]

His turns are still alien today

[@chaunceywilliams8405]

He's amazing.

[@FCS_Surf]

These look familiar...

[@jacklucas4665]

No fucking way, that's hilarious 😂

[@MjSurf4Life]

😂😭

[@Miles_Goodson_Bangs_Kids]

They look so familiar that there's a chance I don't need to sell all my futures boards like I thought I did after riding h4s!

[@BenCunks]

Yes John - deconstruct everything and push surfing further!

[@shrouded1653]

Really nice explanations! Never knew all this about fin design

[@garyrobinson4847]

John John man watching you free surf like that and getting that speed on those huge waves, it’s just a pleasure! Thank you 😁🤙

[@roseelliott2728]

Great music and surfing edits, I like this type of behind the scenes video

[@rj9617]

Best. Thumbnail. Ever.

[@lw9906]

And the day comes to a close... such sweet surfing and turns...

[@thejonathanrath]

Taking your turns to new levels Johnny, great stuff 🌊🙌

[@gregorycatalano3130]

SOOOOO sick dude🤙

[@aeronautekBC]

I purchased a Pyzel Padillac, Futures quad fin set and a black Florence Marine X hoodie. Really nice equipment! Mahalo JJF!

[@mongoose5444]

Sick

[@adryanyork3581]

love this

[@alswildphotoshak8651]

His carving is incredible!

[@rumtum99]

Sooo good 👑

[@alang253]

Futures is in HB hence HB cliffs parking lot but no footage of HB waves... all surfing footage is from Hawaii- likely on completely different fins

[@spencerbaker2789]

There’s a few clips from Huntington, like 2 or 3

[@marccastellplaja5187]

The best 👑

[@ApprenticeGM]

Back in the 80's and early 90's I was into wavesailing and surfing. My wavesailing boards all had fin slots, so you could swap fins. It was totally standard to use smaller fins with smaller sails and higher winds, and larger fins with larger sails in lighter winds, on the same board. Totally changed the feel, control, speed, maneuverability. I liked experimenting with my wavesailing fins, trying different makes and models, sanding the tips to get them thinner and more flexible etc. I used to carry about 30 fins with 2 waveboards and a slalom board. On the other hand, I used to get frustrated with surfboards and shapers, because they just used whatever and everything was glassed on - no option to change or experiment. The local custom shapers didn't care, for them it was all about rocker, rail edge, volume and plan shape, they just didn't "get" fins. I used to beg them to install a short fin box so I could experiment but they were all like "no" - glassed on is better, stronger, quicker, cheaper and fins don't matter so there's no benefit. FCS changed everything, I was so happy (but annoyed I hadn't come up with the idea lol) and now everyone knows how critical they are. They've come so far with different construction allowing stiffness and twist / flex combinations at different fin heights as well as a myriad of plan shapes, foil shapes, heights and thicknesses. Now when you get a young star like JJF getting a deep understanding of fin science and technology from a pro, and then JJF can go and push the limits and feel and account for differences, it's going to progress fin design so much more. Great times!

[@stephenwolfram356]

I never appreciated fins until i had a glass on hum on the face of the wave, took it to my shaper he eyeballed it, grabbed the grinder and made a couple passes and no more hum, super interesting.

[@willcope9888]

This man has inspired my filmmaking so much

[@davidwhalley2426]

What happened to the footage from Goldenwest? Those waves get way better than Rockies, haha! Love the content! Keep it up!!

[@wanderingbug932]

haha goldenwest>rockies funny

[@NevilleFarkinBartos]

fin design has so much potential for innovation in speed control, always dreamed of a dual quad/thruster setup you could change on the fly in places like north west aus or indo

[@BelleTolles]

Holy wow, I'd say that worked VERY well 😅

[@fatifleur4428]

You are the best

[@paulhetherington3854]

Man, you is, Alexi Lalas! Never claimed, and be, professional.

[@Therealeliberengut]

Really cool video! Love how it ends the vid at goldenwest XD

[@LooKeeRooN]

Nice broo🍄

[@thisguy1397]

Grimer fin template is the best one.

[@mikek4537]

Damn I wanted to see how JJF would surf my local

[@bnguyen99345]

fr

[@andrewchapman2491]

I'd like to hang and watch tennis with Bob H, and watch John surf. cool vid guys

[@r33feater]

So smooth, is that the highline?

[@stevenospam4216]

Not sure what we just saw. Design talk was in Cali but surfing was Hawaii last winter. What was result of the fin talk? Surfing-wise, John, your cutbacks are amazing. First vid where I noticed how you were looking down into the deepest curve of the wave from up near the lip. Dang......

[@raff4368]

Imagine John doing a POV vid that would be so interesting

[@joeylyman2382]

they look like fcs h4 fins?

[@allwedoisurf]

Exactly!

[@elliotnicholl7847]

what are you looking for in a fin?? JJ: @3:36 ..... makes me think of a fox news interview

[@ericgoodman6342]

Late 70s I had a 7 2 south shore what a tank by the Late 80s I bought a al merick slater series and the fun began

[@calex901]

Who does your filming and editing John?? Always fire

[@patrickkeiser2673]

Salute

[@maxjosephson1247]

Wish we could have seen footage of the last spot in the video ;)

[@PureSurfClips]

sheeewww! shout out Bolsa Chica. Ripping

[@marlzipan]

ahh good video yah

[@alikajohnson9250]

The development side is pretty interesting

[@waynehearst317]

There will be a time when fin technology will be so advanced, it won't be just about surfer size and wave size/power, but direction, too. We're going to see different sized outside fins based on whether the wave is a consistent right or left break.

[@brandonbey8878]

John John was at HB Cliffs?! So sick!

[@tobyneo10101]

Fin testing at dog beach hahaha

[@brandonbey8878]

@@tobyneo10101 crazy bro that’s my home break!

[@fiddlestickzmuzik]

I always wondered what a fin with a gap in the front of the blade that could let water into the inside of the fin would be like. So like take two fins and stick them together side by side and there be a gap at the back of the fin the length of, at the front leading edge of the fin there be a like a slit that let water into the inside of the fin. Either it would increase lift and speed dramatically or perhaps some other weird feeling like drag..?

[@ab-nz2mm]

where was all the surfing at?

[@hman7236]

Yes I funally found the issue with my kookness coollll it was always the fins not me.... It's like a Samurai with a sword not everyone knows how to slice it.

[@justinojustin6756]

How was the surf on the beach break

[@talonwerner4885]

Those look almost identical to the fcs H4s, are these a futures application or something totally different?

[@fritzrich666]

I have both, JJF’s fin was faster more responsive and is more comparable to the mick fannings fcs fins.

[@talonwerner4885]

@@fritzrich666 how do they compare to the techflex John Johns?

[@Miles_Goodson_Bangs_Kids]

@Talon Werner Fritz doesn't have these fins, nobody outside of futures or jjf's friends has them, he's talking about the JJF shape that the rest of us can buy. I also have both and disagree that h4 is slower and less responsive, but stoked to try these ones when we can

[@MrRobinski]

So do they only work in stiff fins with no flex?

[@bnguyen99345]

dang imagine surfing goldenwest and then seeing jjf i would lose my shit

[@bonsummers2657]

Is this fin model available? Sort of like the Scimitar, 3/2/1, 3/2,….

[@GabeWebber]

Where are these waves at?

[@marche7123]

Can you try to make a full circle with one of your crazy turns on an open shoulder. That would be funny 😂

[@Poop_is_meat34]

Song in the beginning?

[@bellalemus1633]

What’s the song at the beginning?

[@watours]

a ba da dibba dabba dibba da ba bahhh

[@danielmahoney1919]

Shredder

[@whitecloud2688]

Wow looks like it rides like a greased dill pickle seed lol mad respect 🙏

[@gianthuman3315]

Would love to see what board models and dimensions he's combining with those fins

[@cameronlarson2472]

THATS WHY IM HERE!

[@isaacboulton3988]

Interesting coz I think Danes fins are the complete opposite with a smaller more upright centre fin

[@Mr.BL0NDE_]

Danes also at least 30 lbs bigger than JJF and surfs differently. There’s no one magic template, it’s like 20% preference and 80% how you surf (which foot your heavy on, your weight, approach, turns etc.). Then throw in different boards and waves into that mix, it’s just so many variables. IMO find are one the most overlooked pieces of equipment on a board.

[@travistarp7466]

@@Mr.BL0NDE_ fins definitely make a big difference. Out of all the variables, rake, for me at least, has the biggest impact.

[@aldendoak9970]

song??

[@pizzahunter808]

what is your go to fcs fin john?

[@robertclark4994]

H4's, apparently.

[@KaeSPE]

2:38Please tell me the name of the song from

[@christopherbelmonte5145]

2:13 on repeat

[@jshu4246]

JOHN WAS IN HB????????

[@timothymarr2267]

Felt like he got a bit Agro on John about the rake comment.

[@Tnshaikh]

Nathan > but John has bigger budget for KZbin 🤣

[@anthippo91]

What would be the fcs 2 version of this fin ?

[@miguelgalllego]

H4

[@blairmonteith528]

@4.02mins..........."If I had a yard I'd use rake"!!

[@petewebb5149]

Moonraker template from Outer islands surfboard shaper Mitchell Rae...nothing new in surfing! Something borrowed for playing in the blue!

[@dan1e1473]

2:00

[@renielramis5687]

☝️

[@xyzct]

2:14 ... reminds me of my surfing :-\

[@benjamingauvrit7971]

Ahaha, sure even in my dream I couldn't get theses big turn sensations

[@thomasreilly3538]

Can I subscribe twice?

[@tonysmario]

hey john...don't let em fool you! it's the surfer not the fins!! hahahaha. ask them why they don't make bamboo or wood fins...wouldn't positively buoyant fins make more sense than negatively buoyant fins? imagine positively buoyant fins AND boxes!! easy enough to do...but future won't ever do it...hard to focus on money AND performance...you get the best they can give you as a corporate influence whose only focus is profit.

[@turbowtime9611]

It's funny how you like Jazz. Do you play an instrument? Generally Jazz is a musicians genre.

[@nelsonphillips1189]

H4s

[@allwedoisurf]

Very similar looking, and Filipe just made them look pretty damn good at trestles even though he was using as a quad

[@miguelgalllego]

@@allwedoisurf Absolutely, Futures copied them.

[@mcmcmc1]

@@miguelgalllego its not copying if its based on r&d. and futures is way better than fcs

[@miguelgalllego]

@@mcmcmc1Yeah r&d but it doesn't take to be a rocket science to see the similarities between those two fin design. It's all good anyways no one cares as long as Johnny boy keeps ripping. Fcs fins are better on quality Futures got a better system but that's my point of view riding them both.

[@nelsonphillips1189]

They should copy them. I have a set and everyone I know that has them think they’re awesome

[@jrb_jr_13]

1st

[@mrwizard1281]

"small to medium surf"

[@spenceroliphant2665]

Glad someone said this. Never saw a wave smaller than overhead in this video

[@curtisautenrieth3342]

Your In hb

[@lairdherron8202]

'small waves' lol

[@debaucherizer]

smaller and stiffer = faster. And too much lift aint good.

[@leonleullier2260]

Actually, it's the flexier the faster ! Remembering an interview of Riccardo Rossi from RED fluid dynamics highlights that Futures' ride number is mainly influenced by the flex of the fin. A high lifting profile tends to stall at a lower rake angle, but it helps to generate speed in smaller conditions ;) Designing a fin (or a daggerboard or a foil on a yacht) is a lot of compromises to find the best possible solution. And surfing is a lot about feelings with a not-so-scientific-approach so far

[@jacobrowland8450]

John keep this on the down low until u retire. Can’t give them ideas or inspiration

[@paultarbotton4051]

Got lost with some of the technical talk, the boo, boo, boo and the da, da, da....is all i want to say to you.

[@paulhetherington3854]

See, man! You hacked, me again! Because; you are, gay!

[@arekd9769]

little bit more of BS. make controlled experiment do not try to convince poor surfer who has no clue 🥺. knost surfed on styrofoam from home Depot. your fins design goes against everything we know abt turbulent flow.(e g fins don't have yo be do sharp- it's not helping with anything we already know ideal shape) Surfing is still sport for rich idiots. but this will change and you already becoming obsolete

[@nono9555]

Freak