Troubleshooting: Bad Camshaft Kohler Command

In "Unsolved Mower Mysteries", Taryl goes over what to do when your Krohler Command engine runs too rich like it does in this here video. It won't suck in air through the carbatrator like it should and runs rough. After scratching his head for minutes, hours, days... Taryl finally cracked the code with what was wrong with this Krohler Command V-Twin engine.
Prior to and after the lesson, new hit TV show "Unsolved Mower Mysteries" is sweeping the nation! Check out this episode's full creepy story here and be sure to stick around til the end for the update. Surely another classic, yet informative, how-to video from your pals at Grass Rats Garage!
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[@TarylFixesAll]

Support the channel! Grab yourself a Taryl T-Shirt, Coffee Mug, Tools & More! Shipping Worldwide Daily from the Taryl Apparel online store! www.TARYLFIXESALL.com

[@FarmallForever]

MY FAVORITE SHOW! UNSOLVED MOWER MYSTERIES!

[@jaybee2344]

Can you imagine Robert Stack making a Cameo appearance!

[@charlesbostick2184]

@@maj8301 Aa!!

[@oliverman-ff5gu]

This guy needs a Netflix show

[@thomasjehnkins1986]

Gotta hand it to you man!... you put a LOT of effort into these videos AND you go the extra mile for your customer!

[@kennethfanelli5496]

The music is my favorite

[@chrisa1125]

No shit, I wish Taryl was near me. I've got an Exmark Lazer Z with an oil leak that I'd take to Taryl!

[@mustie1]

dident see that coming,

[@lavendersneppo]

They said it was running rich, but I think they just mean it was making that distinctive “banging” noise like it was running rich. That sometimes happens if a valve is too tight so it doesn’t close, or in this case where the compression release was stuck. Since he could cover the carburetor with essentially no vacuum forming, I’m guessing the release is on the intake valve, so all the compression was pushing back through the intake manifold and the net air flow through the carb was essentially 0.

[@sewing1243]

@@lavendersneppo I believe the compression release is always on the exhaust valve(s) because the engineers wouldn't design an engine with air/fuel mixture/exhaust gasses being blown back out the intake/carburetor. The loss of suction on the intake is probably because air is being drawn back into the cylinders through the exhaust pipe/muffler.

[@lavendersneppo]

@@sewing1243 That isn't always true, the newer briggs single cylinder lawn tractor engines have the compression release on the intake and I'm sure others do too. Normally the blow back through the carb isn't a problem when starting because the release closes so quickly, but in this case it isn't closing. Most older engines had the release on the exhaust, but some newer ones are starting to be on the intake.

[@jose83771]

It seems more and more with kohler engines I don't see it coming lol,

[@ghostfox3560]

Or going?

[@davidbulich1254]

The manufacturer should just put on stronger starters instead of a troublesome compression release

[@Wayoutthere]

Dang, 3 tries, so many hours. I would have set the damn thing on FIRE haha.

[@tatersalad2067]

This would be the same thing that would happen at my shop. Having to pull that engine three freaking times......

[@bigdirtygaming6429]

It's like the bullshit never ends. Lol

[@bw1841]

Taryl's so experienced he expects his gut to tell him the diagnosis. But an amateur needs basic checks like cranking compression and leakdown test. Those would have helped show low running compression but good cylinder sealing at top dead, which should have hinted at the bad compression release.

[@rwtrwt-ju9fk]

Like most Kohler engines belong in a Kohler toilet.

[@alext8828]

Kohler has gone downhill since the old days. The kids must have taken over the family. Shame.

[@scooterwoodley195]

Taryl is an American treasure. Podunk’s finest

[@fair2middlin]

You see there Scooter, he thinks of the simplest things first

[@Mazel_Tov_888]

new mowers are expensive now, so it's worth it to tear into these old engines to get them running.

[@DAS-Videos]

I don't know why krohler adds so much complexity into something that isn't even needed.

[@ralphwatten2426]

I'd like to see if that little piece of crap from the reed valve is in the compressione release. Thank God for Sunday Taryl mysteries.

[@chevyboybrownjb83]

I think that it's behind that weight on the camshaft disassemble and look you've got me curious my friend

[@edhartman2860]

I have to admit, when I'm mowing on my Cub Cadet, I find myself yelling "Taryl Dactyl Here"!!

[@trevor5290]

Perfect timing for my morning coffee :) You guys are the best!!

[@dkeith45]

I wonder if the compression release parts on the old Kohler Command camshaft could be removed, and reinstall the shaft without those parts?

[@BrucesWorldofStuff]

That's what I am thinking or push the weight in and grind down the lifts on the exhaust cam lobes so that they will be even with the cam lobe... Just a thought from a 35 + year mechanic from the back yard... Lol

[@garny3766]

Yeah I’m sure it can but when T was looking at the cam when he removed it the CR was stuck open...it should have been disengaged. I think something else is going on. Like I said in my earlier post I would like to have seen the flywheel key too.

[@BrucesWorldofStuff]

@@garny3766 I went and looked at the video again to make sure before replying. When T pulled out the cam and turned it over the weight was stuck and it was stuck close to the shaft and the compression lift pins were sticking all the way out holding open the valves as it went around. That is seen in the video plain as day. Another thing a guy could do is weld the weight in the out(open) position so the lifts do not stick out and hold the valves open. Just a thought! ME: I would have ground down the lifts and reinstalled the camshaft and got lunch... Lol LLAP P.S. I have one of these engines and if this happens, that is what this 67 year old mechanic is going to do... :-) $200 bucks my buck teeth..... :-D

[@garny3766]

Bruce Scott Humm I just watched again and @ 11:09 you can see his left index push counterweight back towards camshaft (that’s the first click sound) in essence turning “on“ CR. It does appear the lift pins are sticking up until he cycles the CR a few times though🤔

[@gordbaker896]

At 22:35 there is a lightweight casting that is supported by the Crankshaft and has weights hanging from it. What exactly does it do? Part of Dynamic Balancing?

[@gratzbuck9882]

This was one of your most enjoyable videos. As a retired instrument mechanic and electrical foremen, this was a prime example of my philosophy, no matter how aggravating "the tough ones are the ones you learn from".

[@spin1804]

Stihl an unsolved mystery

[@enterusername4209]

You know, I had a case bolt come loose on my MS280 Stihl and it broke some fins on my flywheel. $80 later for a new flywheel and it cuts great. I did remove those bolts and gave them a shot of lock tight. Thanks for your videos.

[@jay7264]

I hate Stihl saws. Most have no adjustments for the carb

[@wickerman9569]

Thanks for the dinner. How about a video on adding electric start to a pull start engine..

[@scooterwoodley195]

1200Custom 1974 Agreed... that would be a good one.

[@fair2middlin]

on most builds this will be unavailable/impossible

[@michaelslivensky8741]

Good video, Thanks for including Elk Skins. We need more videos with him.

[@michaelslivensky8741]

@@gfriedman99 that's how I was watching it. Lol. Elk Skins is my damn hero.

[@mikeroutledge6929]

Brilliant, love from the UK

[@Bluelightbandit]

00:08 Is that a #2 Phillips in your pocket, or are you just happy to be making another video? 🤔

[@rickmanley767]

I dont understand how that thing could run at all when you block the carbetrator

[@josephpuchel6497]

Maybe sucking in air via exhaust

[@fair2middlin]

That is what made it a great mystery. The carb was finding air somewhere else

These engines are just made complicated for the sake of it. Why do they need a decompression system? Old engines never had them and fitting reed valves, to me every thing is going backwards.

[@dkeith45]

I often wonder if these problems are cropping up because of the ever upward HP of these engines. Seems like a race for ever more HP that is not actually needed to run the wheels and blades. At what point is there too much HP? One example of this, I have a mid 90's MTD GT2050 with a 20 hp Onan and a 50" deck. I also have a Craftsman GT5000 that's maybe ten years old, with a 25 hp Kohler twin and a 48" deck. Why the additional 5hp, and for a smaller deck no less? Seems to me the further you go back through the years, the smaller the engines HP gets even though the deck sizes remain the same.

[@fixingstufftv453]

LOL, another great video. Got to love those engineers and number crunching nerds. Someone saved a few pennies by using a low torque starter motor and an over complicated compression release system.

[@paulslapcm]

does the 20 hp v twin camshaft have a decompression

[@randyabraham1058]

You crack me up taryl. You go to a lot of trouble to keep us entertained. Love your videos. Keep up the good work!

[@kentkirkpatrick7953]

I like that elk skins feller.

[@mastertech7104]

Hey Taryl, check the oil filter for pieces of the reed valve. another great video.

[@pennyan2057]

exactly what I was thinking,however he did say that the oil pump has a screen on it, I would still tear the filter pleats apart and look for filings.

[@FNGstationtwentyeigh]

I'm thinking that the missing sock that eludes us between washer and dryer is somehow related to this crime but merely speculation on my behalf...promoted by one cold foot .hmmm

[@rustyshackelford8769]

How many beers did that one take to fix?

[@gorcer7600]

Video was getting a bit long in the tooth !

[@inessentialtitle1994]

It it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t have a job. Thanks Taryl!

[@michaelglynn2638]

I couldn't do that to the chainsaw if I tried!!! 🤔 Great video! Thanks all👌

[@billsmith8238]

I think slippers could have fixed it the first time

[@lewiemcneely9143]

A pal that runs a mower shop has had TWO of these with bad LOBES! One was a Scrub Cadet with 80 hours on it. Ran rough when NEW. Might be like GM with the bad batch of cams years ago.

[@TheVespap200e]

These weekly videos keep getting better all the time! Unsolved mower mysteries was 10/10! (ツ) 👏👏👏👍

[@calholli]

Why couldn't you just cut off the compression release and use the original cam on that v-twin? Charging the guy for a used cam that he doesn't need seems a little harsh-- but I get you have a lot of hours on this one. But that's not the customers fault--- idk.. I hate these types of jobs... lol.... The cost of learning isn't cheap.

[@dkeith45]

I was thinking the same thing. What if you don't have a replacement cam, and just remove the release parts and reinstall it? Would be an interesting experiment.

[@hansbehrends7063]

@@dkeith45 I know it is not the space shuttle, but probably the camshaft is out of balance without the parts for the compresion release.

[@dkeith45]

@@hansbehrends7063 Hm, that is a factor to consider.

[@jason-ge5nr]

Reckon you earned your money on that one. Or lost your shirt. And there's your dinner (off the dollar menu). I appreciate the diagnostics and sharing.

[@carlmiller1034]

Excellent, in-depth walk-thru of the issue with the engine. That seems like a few hours (at least) spent trouble shooting. But you fixed it...because Taryl Fixes All!!!! Great job. Now, time to celebrate your success and purchase some Taryl apparel. Thanks again!

[@donnieharrelson1712]

DAM SAM..you are king of U tube

[@heavysnow8616]

Guys, I had a similar issue and it’s still has me a bit puzzled. Toro 1128 OXE snowblower. Complaint was the machine was low on power. I pulled out the gas, put in fresh non-ethanol fuel. No fix. Found the carb leaking from the body, bad casting I assume. Replaced carb, no leak but still had original issue. I checked valve adjustment, they were both loose. Adjusted to Briggs spec, no fix. Then the machine wouldn’t start, I was getting intermittent spark. Pulled flywheel and found sheared key. Replaced key, got it running, still same original issue. At this point I’m scratching my head-a lot! Since the engine had a pretty bad oil leak I figured I would pull the sump cover to take a look inside. What I found is the puzzle I don’t understand. The cam timing was off 16-teeth from the crankshaft. I called the owner and asked if anyone worked on the machine before me. He said it was the first time anyone has touched it since it was new. Camshaft was fine so was the crankshaft. I realigned the shafts properly, inspected the governor, lifters, pushrods. All was ok, sealed her up, oiled her up.She started up right away but hi-speed was only about 3K RPM. Adjusted both idle and hi-speed and she ran perfect. How can it run or even start with valve timing so far off? This issue owned me for a week!

[@DavidSmith-fr1uz]

I am just wondering if a little tiny piece of a that reed is semi lodged under that compression release somewhere.

[@SteveKluver]

I agree. That piece is very thin and flat, and with a little bit of oil on it, it could easily stick between the gear face, and the CR counterweight. I would have slid a business card in between there right away, and gotten my flashlight out 😃

[@Goomer]

T want more "Secret Mower Cults", I bet there is one with Little Johnny as the leader.

[@kjell-richardlvdal373]

Taryl engine doctor

[@maj8301]

Elk Skins, "Fire it up, fire it up, fire it up". Taryl, "SHUT UP"!!!

[@secondcreekworkshop3908]

Why does Kholer use a compression release on an electric start engine? It seems like something else to break.

[@notajp]

Briggs does it too. If that compression release fails, good luck getting it to start.....

[@calholli]

You seen the reason right there in the video, in his final start. Without it, the thing will often lock up on the compression stroke- - which will wear out your starter much quicker... So you end up having to bump the starter a few times, every time you start it. And for those who aren't mechanically in the know, it seems like its not working right. All they need to do is put a manual compression release, just like on a Husqvarna chainsaw and it wouldn't break.

[@calholli]

@@ItsMrAssholeToYou exactly.. So when you sell a million units.. saving $10 is making $10 million extra dollars in profit. They cut cost everywhere they can-- and that's why everything is absolutely junk; unless you're buying a $16k industrial grade mower with a diesel engine. Its very common for mowers to be $40k.. For like golf courses, and mowing highways... And I'm not talking about a tractor with a brush hog--

[@dennissytsma3561]

Outstanding analysis. I have this engine on my year 2003 Craftsman GT5000 lawn tractor.

[@hartfordsignpost589]

I have a Kohler CV490 that runs terrible and exhaust is coming out of the carbitrator. With valve cover off, when I turn the engine it looks like the exhaust valve is traveling very little compared to the intake valve. WTF is that? Worn cam lobe maybe?

[@chrishotrod6603]

My dad's briggs intek engine was smoking n rings were shot n i was tearing it apart to rebuild and when I pulled cam the compression relief was broke.

[@tonyfremont]

Can't wait for the update where they find the reed valve piece between a piston skirt and cylinder wall. It's in there somewhere. Might be sandwiched in the compression relief though.

[@wadebarnes6720]

I like the oil drain pipe

[@jeep2003]

Stupid engine I hate v twins they always have weird problems

[@Sludge73]

Woohoo! Taryl Time!

[@KYKAYAKER274ey1]

Crap love the channel when u went woo I did too forgot I had guests at my house freaked them out now there binge watching your channel awesome

[@tellfile]

I've heard it's recommended to run small engines wide open all the time because they're designed for that. But for hours non stop on hot days, I wonder.

[@ganeshnarayan5505]

After watching Unsolved Mysteries for sometime i didn't know Robert Stacks teeth was like that.

[@closertothetruth9209]

why even have compression release, surely it's a weak point in the long run. Be nice to see Taryll hot rod a mower engine .

[@shanekilgore7273]

It makes the engine compression ratio very low to ease the torque required by the starter. It's a sound idea. Much more necessary on higher horsepower, higher compression engines.

[@13bravoredleg18]

With weak battery's and starters nowadays, companies all use compression release systems.

[@closertothetruth9209]

@@JM-yx1lm just need a decent cca battery and a real starter motor, I know id bin the decompression and make the necessary mods, I mod everything if I don't like the design, can take quite a bit of time and effort and some money but it's worth it, been doing it for over 30 years.

[@kevwills858]

I dont get it .. When you discovered it was Stuck, it was stuck Out You pushed it IN to Free it .. Then you go on to explain your theory that it was Stuck IN and not Out (like we saw) ??? wtf Taryl ?

[@MrGoosePit]

Roscoe Jenkins! 24:13 That mug shot is hilarious!

[@fair2middlin]

Yep almost seven feet tall

[@bennieshetler8435]

Good video. ..future videos would be great to see how you reseal the crankcase and how long you wait until you fire it up!!! I guess it would depend on which product you use

[@ChevyCitation]

At 18:43 That Engine was Granny Revving not pulling in air like it should

[@waltbogar6988]

Taryl, was hoping you could answer a question for me. I have a Kohler CV15S engine and cannot locate where the regulator/rectifier is on this engine. The videos I have watched show one in the corner of the engine shroud, but mine has a plate there. Does the engine have a regulator/rectifier and if so, where is it? Thanks for your help.

[@dkeith45]

I recently bought a non running GT5000 with one of these engines. After seeing so many of Taryl's videos on the many and various problems with the Kohler Command V twin, I think I'm going to just replace the engine with a good old Kohler Command single cylinder engine, even though it's only a 17 hp.

[@bw1841]

Yeah but they CAN have simple problems that are easy to fix. My command pro 25 from the 90's on an Exmark has 1700hrs, and has only had a blown head gasket. It is so strong i didnt realize the head gasket for a year, then a mouse chewed the coil wire and made that cylinder stop contributing what little power it was putting out. Then it would run on one but die when i switched on the blades.

[@dkeith45]

@@bw1841 I got this one for $250 a couple months ago. It's in excellent condition, but for its engine problem. It's the geared model, not a hydrostat. Previous owner said it broke down, he took it to a repair shop, who said it had a blown head gasket. So they put new ones on. THen those blew also. So he was done messing with it. My original intent was to see if I could fix the 25hp, but after watching some of Taryls videos and others on the MANY problems with these Kohler Twins, I'm not sure I want to even try. Which is why I figure I'll put the 17 in, to get it out of my shop, then toy with the 25 later. And who knows, it might work fine with the 17 single cylinder Kohler Command. I have another Craftsman, a LT1000 that had a 17hp Intek that threw its compression release. While waiting for the new parts to come in, I put in an old 11 hp B&S flathead engine and it ran and mowed fine with it, though it could not power through high grass as well as the original 17 could.

[@NoWr2Run]

Elk Skin was RIGHT ON ABOUT THE COMPRESSION RELEASE. " WHAT'S THE CHANCES OF THAT GETTING STUCK AGAIN IF PUT BACK IN ". I would have CLEANED THE HELL OUT OF IT IF REUSING, don't know if you did that ? WHAT A DUMBASS DESIGN & A PAIN IN THE AZZ FOR SURE.

[@victoryfirst2878]

Taryl, do all small engines today have compression release ??? You said that Briggs changed the design of the compression release three times ??? Maybe a fourth time is in order ???? I prefer the old engines. They were made with longevity in mind. Thanks Taryl for letting us all know on KZbin of this problem too. VF

[@randallcarney1216]

The older ones have it to exept briggs which used a bump machined into cam lobe for compression release. It was trouble free,as long as the engine was properly maintained!

[@victoryfirst2878]

@@randallcarney1216 Thanks for letting me know Randall. VF

[@DanThaMan1984]

Hey taryl I've got the exact same mower I'm working on. Problem is it will idle but as soon as I bump the throttle it runs more than full throttle. Rebuilt the carb and fuel accelerator. It ran perfect for about 5 seconds. Then it backfired and now I'm having this problem. Any ideas? Maybe the governor?

[@hartfordsignpost589]

When I was 14 and into dirt bikes I remember some bikes had a second hole on the head that would release the compression. Seems like a simpler solution.

[@trevorryks5843]

I have DGS6500 Kohler command vtwin. Hit the bottom on a hill, now it sounds like crap. Pulleys, belt, and sparks good. Sounds like banging metal on one side every time piston out position while running. Haven't checked coil or opened up case yet, (I don't wanna!). Please help!

[@Chuck_S]

Very good video. Can you do a video on a Kroller Command V-twin horizontal shaft governor replacement? I have a Scrub Cadet GT2550 shaft drive that I believe needs a governor gear.

[@timrussell1559]

How in the world as a business owner could someone go through that much time, trial and error, and bill the customer accordingly? Probably a 500 dollar mower to begin with, and the shop spends 2 or 3 days and likely 20 to 30 hours worth of labor screwing around with it. If they billed the owner for the actual time involved in diagnosing and repairing that thing the bill would probably be 1500+ dollars just in labor alone. Obviously you couldn't bill the owner for the actual time and effort involved in making that repair cause no-one would ever pay it. Hope youtube pays generously for the production of this video. Otherwise, the math don't add up and the business loses its ass on a job such as this

[@PatOne09]

Just curious, does this motor have hydraulic lifters and if so did you replace them too? Thanks for all your videos. You are the Khan Academy of small engine repair. Keep up the great work!

[@SWEETZ5544]

Hey how can I get torque specs for my Kohler engine and for my Kawasaki FX 730v engine

[@Seansgarage711]

As always love your videos!!!

[@bonzaibarty]

The cam you got from the junk pile that was bad is called a " Hamburger Cam". Ground round!!!!!!

[@qzorn4440]

hey the cops are lokin for you people, they found finger prints on the texas chainsaw massacre and funny teeth-marks that fixes_all descriptions of lawnmower grease marks...:/

[@alexortega2924]

My mower is doing almost the same thing runs terrible and wont run under 50% throttle. I pull the spark plugs and they are absolutely black, plus there is a lot of back pressure when I crank the motor, the poor little starter keeps getting stalled. Also runs with tons of disgusting smoke when it does run. I am not looking forward to pulling the motor and the camshaft to troubleshoot this.

[@JOEZEP54]

This would have me going for days. Thank you for posting this. Stay well, Joe Z

[@terrymiler2164]

All they have to do is fast forward,or rewind to there liking. If they don't know tap the screen this cool little slide bar comes on screen wow move it how and where ya want. I love the kids keep up the good work.

[@macmikey]

sell me a couple used krohler twins, i just lost 2 scags with ecv/cv940's to sliding valve guide and a stripped cam gear. What luck, eh?

[@rsgabrys3080]

---------. open heart Kohler surgeon And mystery mower theater----------- your double dipping ✅✅ -----------

[@eddysamson3465]

I have mystery..pulled my Koller apart..why is this big as bolt sheard off floating around in the bilge... dont belong the should be there ..whered it come from

[@brianbanks3044]

that was a lot of work...taking apart 2x and still not working correctly...how much does a repair like that cost...in my line of work (auto mechanics) we would charge flat rate on something like that....you could have 3-4 hours into just troubleshooting that thing plus taking it apart and reassembly...customers never understood that extra work and time involved....why can't you just fix it like everything else on it they would say....but you did save them 200 for new cam....price of owning stuff i guess

[@jC-kc4si]

Ehhh...i see auto mechanics working 2 or 3 jobs simultaneously. So the 10 minutes fix that gets charged 1 hour makes up for the 2 hour job that takes 3 hours.

[@danljohnston]

My Kohler Command V twin wiped out the cam at around 250 hours. Crappy engine. At least it was under warranty.

[@philliphall5198]

I always knew us mechanics were kinda UN normal and strange but dam it you proved it. Lololo 😮

[@dale1973100]

I’m having the same problem with it 23 hp Kawasaki do you think that would be the same?

[@binnydinney9739]

Well that’s weird, those command v twins in my experience are some of the best engines. I always see them with 2000+ hours of use in a commercial setting and they run great. I guess it depends on how much maintenance they get. I probably would have been working on that for days to find that issue. I’m going to start inspecting all the reed valves on the command units I work on. I think I’m going to start stocking those reed valves and on any of the machines with over say 500 hours, I’m going to recommend the customer change the reed valves. Thanks taryl.

[@fair2middlin]

There's your Dinney

[@voidvincent]

What is the videos name that Taryl used the solenoid to replace the piggy backed solenoid, anyone know?

[@sjcf89]

How do you charge on repairs like this?

[@Cinder2008]

I’m wondering the same thing. A used part saving a $200 parts bill. Lots of time assembling and disassembling. What is the mower worth?

[@Cinder2008]

Doug Reed some states require an estimated cost when the mower is dropped off. If That were my mower and I was handed a “piece of paper with a bunch of numbers “ I’d have a problem paying a 4 figure bill. Unless my dinner had been discussed and authorized.

[@sjcf89]

Sounds like there was a good few hours spend on it. I just want to know if they charge out every hour?

[@chevylandt.v]

Can we get a shirt of elk skins

[@iwanaGoFast2010]

Soon as I heard it run I was compression release dude!!!!! I’m always right

[@braddeyoung8701]

More I watch Taryl Fixes All the more I don't want Kohler engines.

[@tonyallen4912]

why does my 7000 series KT745 stop turning when i run a compression test on it???

[@Ken-wd4wk]

i have a 17.5 command .. single cylinder doing the same thing .. have you seen one of them stick ?

[@smallengine]

If anyone can help, thanks. I’ve got a Craftsman LT1000 with an Intel briggs 18hp. I replaced the carb, spark plug, and fuel lines. I have drained the fuel multiple times and played around with the governor a bit but the engine surges badly when the choke is off or when it warms up with the choke on. It stops sometimes when the blades are on. It has done this before and after all new parts and work have been done. If someone can suggest what I can try to fix this that would be great!

[@GT469XWT1]

I have the same tractor. Have you tried non ethanol gasoline?

[@smallengine]

GT469XWT1 I have not, but that should not be the issue. I have been playing around with it and when you hold the governor arm steady it stops surging so I know it’s not the carb it must be something related to the governor or something else

[@MattyMCcRollin17z]

Does this happen on the 15hp command also? Mine seems to run with a misfire and sounds like low compression on startup