Tav softly breaks up with evil Astarion / Astarion Romance / Baldur's Gate 3

[@Carolina57685]

"I can take anything I want. I should have made you a spawn just to teach you that." .........that's such a scary line what the fuck

[@Amainville93]

The abused finds himself in a position of power and becomes the abuser. An all too common tale.

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

Yes, though the weird thing is.... he says he could have made you a vampire spawn again your will, and he could have while you slept after you rejected him.... but in actuality he never tried. If there was no love at all he would not have hesitated. It's like he's so conflicted, he does feel something, or remembers he loved Tav, but after the breakup he's now desperately trying to convince himself he doesn't care about what he can't have.

[@Carolina57685]

@TF2CrunchyFrog my comment was about the implication of what would've happened IF you were to become his spawn. If you try to break up with Ascended Astarion after becoming his spawn, he won't let you. He also says that he won't force you to do anything... because you'll be obedient (aka do what I tell you OR ELSE). So here, he is telling you that IF you had become his spawn, then he would've done whatever he wanted to you. Once you become his spawn he sees you as less than him (if you read his mind you find out he thinks you're degrading yourself and you'll always be inferior to him) so it is /at that point/ that whatever he felt for Tav becomes fully twisted and he only sees them as a thing he owns. If you don't become his spawn at least you aren't under his control and he seems not to force you to be....but once you are under his control, then it's totally different.

[@yiqing743]

@@Carolina57685 the writers were really on-point with the dynamic between abusers and their victims. Typically they don't show all their true colours until they have you locked down. Real life examples include getting married, getting pregnant, quitting your job to be financially dependent on them... so becoming Astarion's spawn and bound to his will feels like the fantasy equivalent of that situation.

[@dracuella]

​@@Carolina57685 Oh, I never thought to read his thoughts, he really thinks that? ;_; That so sad on so many levels. I know the ascension changes him but that would mean he thought of himself as less when he was a spawn - even when we didn't. It's why I can't go this route, it breaks my poor heart to see him so cold. If you guys ever played Dragon Age, it's a little like hardening Alistair in DA:O - it changes him in some ways that just feel wrong. Albeit it feels far worse with Astarion. .. I wonder if he will feel lonely down the road and realise what he lost. And if his lived experiece can keep him from becoming more like Cazador than he'd like to.

[@crispysquidoftheacidcats295]

Neil Newbon was told take five but he heard change lives

[@thesilvercircle4582]

Omg 😂

[@natpat4094]

lmfao 😭😭

[@seratoninny]

so good😂😂😂

[@5ix29]

​@@natpat4094nice profile pic

[@yennefer440]

Lmao, I hope he gets an award for his va work.

[@sweetsoverload9212]

"You will regret leaving me. More than anything you live to regret." Astarion bouta start writing poetry about Tav bouta start singing breakup songs

[@liliavacyncosplay]

He definitely sounded like he was telling himself that more than he was telling Tav. He wants to believe it...he has to, or the hurt will sink in. UGH such good writing for this character, as well as the performance being exceptional!

[@shirokuro6226]

​@@liliavacyncosplayYeah definitely that one, and it's really....sad

[@NC-ij9rb]

​@@liliavacyncosplayso tru

[@tinytitmouse7019]

I thought it sounded more like a threat, what’s stopping him from turning or toying with tav later

[@longlongjin]

@@tinytitmouse7019Consent is very important for him so he won’t do this to someone he “loves”, even though he is corrupted by his new found power. At least that’s what I’d like to think.

[@abeastofburden_commissions3320]

As someone who got the happy Astarion ending; this is absolutely heartbreaking and painful to watch. Literally making me cry

[@LauraLakefu]

any tips to get happy end? its all i want and im so scared to mess it up lol

[@Meshifuari]

@@LauraLakefu Do not let him ascend and romance him. That's it.

[@Asri_]

@@LauraLakefu When he asks you to read the scars on his back, don't do it. Choose the other option.

[@ParadiseAndGin]

@@Asri_ Bullshit that changes nothing, I did that and still got the good ending. All that does is that he knows about the ritual earlier, you can still persuade him. Misinformation....

[@tinytitmouse7019]

If you aren’t confident in your persuasion skill, you can sabotage the ritual by killing one of the sibling spawn. He will make an overworld comment but this didn’t change anything else for me. You can also send Astarion to the sarcophagus alone with your party further away. He will kill Casador and free the spawn on his own.

[@Elin-dd4hk]

"You will regret leaving me. More than anything you live to regret." i feel like he's talking to himself in this line. Boy is projecting hard trying to protect himself.

[@cussundriakneal9904]

No... I think he means it this time. Once a Spawn becomes a True Vampire, their personality shifts. Any humanity that made them empathetic or caring gets snuffed out. Any love they felt gets twisted and warped into obession. Spawn Astarion would have been projecting to protect himself. Ascended Astarion truly thinks of you as something less, and is now a full blown Narcassist that thinks you'll come to regret leaving him.

[@Louves192]

In one of the datamined endings he sits in his castle(?) - alone - and thinks about Tav, remembering the time they had together.

[@NC-ij9rb]

I think so too. ❤

[@NC-ij9rb]

​@@Louves192that's so sad 😢

[@misami213]

I feel like he refuse to admit that he is hurt after breaking up with him.

[@cheyennebarton]

apparently if you read his mind during this scene (i think it’s this one) all hes thinking is how much he hates himself :))))

[@celigalaxii]

Funnily enough, Cazador has a similar thought process if you let the Gur take Astarion a n d Cazador nearly completes the ritual. He'll be "sleeping" in a coffin (and you can take the chance to read his mind), thinking of how he got here, and thinking of what ***his*** old master used to do to him too. It truly is a vicious cycle that not only Astarion fell into.

[@ThwipThwipBoom]

@@celigalaxii I'm so glad that I saved Astarion in my first blind playthrough. I didn't romance him but he did become my Tav's best friend after I redeemed him.

[@Synthia17]

Damn, hope someone posted that one

[@Isus24-s8e]

"I would have ruined your love, used your trust until you were nothing". Wow this literally made my heart ache tbh. This is so cruel. The background music makes it even worse.

[@shirokuro6226]

Ikr, it goes with the drama

[@Incurtus]

nah like my tav is currently romancing him ( just ended act 2 ) and like that disgusted me 😭😭 i still love astarion as a character but he is def evil and i dont think theres saving for him

[@user-rh1kt3pq2s]

​@@Incurtus I got to act 3, stopped him from the ritual and he's very sweet....and I think his alignment has shifted a lot as well.

[@ladyselin35]

He's only talking about the worst scenerio. He wants to believe it to shield himself from sadness. All i can hear is i love you please dont leave me from his words. Shame we cant find a middle path.

[@shirokuro6226]

@@ladyselin35 I would also want to believe this is the case but according to dnd lore true vampires are absolutely evil. Maybe there's still a tiny fraction of love left but the rest are corrupted and he can't differenciate it. My Tav's interactions with him after becoming his spawn also shows that he only sees you as a "thing" and I can feel it😭 I have so many things I want to ask the writer of Astarion 😫 So many "what ifs"

[@norikotan]

Wooow "There is nothing left of the man I fell for" or whatever the line was. This path is absolutely tragic😢

[@enriquecastillo3664]

Right?! Some of those responses were so tragic and sad. gods this games writing is incredible.

[@MadelineSawyer]

This and "In another life, you would have led me here [Cazador's crypt] and not that pretty clearing in the forest" during his personal quest are both incredibly heartbreaking little lines. Kudos to the writers.

[@adrienneinchi]

@@MadelineSawyerHits so hard.

[@miss.dannitiger]

😢😢😢

[@ImElliePaige]

BRO thats soul crushing@@MadelineSawyer

[@cussundriakneal9904]

I both love and HATE how him saying "I love you" rings so false. Even more so than his first theatrical time saying it as a joke. Hats off to Neil for making this character so nuanced to the point you can HEAR the differences in his emotions.

[@freudianslippers6567]

I am so glad I persuaded him not to do this and turned him good, the scene where he says I love you and means it is so well done.

[@justanothermaid]

This one line was perfection. Great insight on your part. It sums up the horror of the whole ending.

[@damien678]

Vampire's in DnD get something called 'Dark Desire' that twists all their purest feelings. So any feelings of love gets changed into lust and obsession.

[@ladyamaranth]

Because bad ending astarion doesn't love you. He's violent obsessed with you in a possession sort of way. It's sad.

[@DragonologyDpt]

My fiance and I are constantly raving about Neil's performance in this game. Its astounding. All the VAs have done an amazing job imo but Niel really took it to a new level

[@cinder4181]

"No vampire will ever give up their spawn... why would they do that? it does not happen." The suggestions behind it all are so cruel and saddening to see. It fits very well that the power consumes him as it does all vampires in D&D lore... it is just so painful to see him truly fight through what he wants to lie about. Dismissive, excuses, trying to self-reason that he thinks its good for him to have not done it... But if you let him bite you, you'd know that truly it is so insanely far from it. He becomes progressively possessive and coveting the further towards the potential of power he gets. At first, he is joking with you, so naturally slipping into what he's always been conditioned to behave like when someone comes onto him or expresses desires with him. It is all he knows, and to him it means nothing... but then you show him more kindness, show him things arent always at the detriment of others. And its such a beautifully heartbreaking tale of truly helping someone be free of the mindset of worthlessness and abuse, but then... this end shows how much 200 years of conditioning can really cling to the bones.

[@VoidEternal]

I wish more people respected this part of the story-telling. The part of the story where another character's existence takes precedence over your own, and I feel that's what gives all these characters weight. They're treated like real people, with real experiences and thoughts. Yes, sometimes you can influence them, take them down a different path, but you're not going to CHANGE everything. SOME people you can change, but not everyone, but always, and not always for the reasons you want. In some ways it would've been better for Astarion had you plunged that spike into his chest on the first night you found out, now that you know what lies at the end of that road. And I think if that thought ever crosses your mind with Astarion, than that truly validates the writing all the more.

[@potatomo9609]

@@VoidEternalI mean or you can just not allow him to ascend and he wouldn’t become this…

[@RJ-fs5gx]

i low expected him to shout CAN SOMEONE TURN THE DAMN MUSIC DOWN WE'RE TRYING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION

[@shirokuro6226]

😂😂😂

[@IrisGlowingBlue]

++

[@shivala]

I think this progression shows really well that in classic D&D when one becomes a vampire the persons alignment becomes evil (usually lawful evil). Vampires are always evil. So what ever Astartion was before and whatever he might have felt for the main character before becoming a true vampire (the tadpole maybe protected him from the alignment requirement as a spawn?) - he is now truly evil. He would definately have done the things he said at the end.

[@adrienneinchi]

As a spawn he’s neutral evil, which is not malignant. Crit Role’s “The Gentleman,” character (who has a daughter and a beloved) is a good example of this alignment in loving relationships with others.

[@NeoCreo1]

@@adrienneinchiI mean, true Vampires are Lawful Evil, so the default alignment isn’t really coming into play here. I think it’s less about him becoming a vampire an more about the means (a super evil ritual sacrificing the souls of thousands)

[@emmuzboosh]

@@NeoCreo1yeah he’s not just a ‘vampire’ he’s the ‘vampire ascendant’ which of course yes is more evil due to the whole sacrifice stuff

[@andaredvex]

Isn't he more like chaotic evil as a spawn? His demeanour, behavior seems to indicate that, to me at least.@@adrienneinchi

[@RiceON]

He refused to feed on people who he deemed 'innocent' and fed on animals I think he was very lawful or maybe neutral evil.@@andaredvex

[@aubreyackermann8432]

God that dialogue is so good! "I love you! That's what you've been waiting to hear, isn't it? That's what you want?" And that's the only reason he said it. To make the PC accept his control. So he can always say "this is what you wanted". It's heartbreaking watching the cycle repeat.

[@Call-me-Creeds]

Proving... anything "good" in him died in that ritual. ;-; RIP his humanity

[@UlixesStolatus]

The smirk on his face right after he says it too...he thinks he's got Tav all figured out

[@yiqing743]

Seriously! And the writers even established early in the game, such as when you first sleep together, how Astarion has this verbal habit where he'll string two questions together. Rather like he's throwing out a lure while trying to gauge your response - with no feelings involved whatsoever. He stops talking in this insincere, manipulative fashion once you get to the Act 2 confession. So it's heartbreaking to see the Vampire Ascendent version of him reverting to this. It's like the romance never happened... sort of like a sexier version of ceremorphosis where you lose your soul, haha ;_;

[@eoozy2617]

@@yiqing743 Yeah he basically becomes Cazador and thinks of Tav as his pet

[@urgae9125]

@@eoozy2617all he does is give Tav his old role, but with pretty words, and promises we wouldn’t even know he’d keep.

[@leslifrancoly5127]

fuck. ascendant astarion still makes me miserable, but that last scene was some incredibly delicious angst to chew over.

[@kekekemer9057]

brb gonna cry cause both his ending somehow are sad🥲🥲

[@angie.castle]

I read angst fanfic for a reason. This checks all my fanfic needs 😂

[@105saphira]

@@angie.castle Fanfic with ascendant Astarion are going to be great

[@BelmontCruz]

It's neat to note that his mannerisms fal far more in line with how he acted early in the romance. Just manipulative and flirting, literally saying "That's what you want to hear, isn't it?" Any progress Tav could've made with him being genuine and cutting the crap, it's just gone in the drunkenness of the power. In time he will definitely be worse than Cazador. And he'll be either full of convincing manipulations if your Tav questions him or ready with a leash of his own if you resisted, all in the name of "You wanted this" And that line "I would've ruined your love, used your trust until you were nothing" just absolutely crushes. With that and the Insight check when he goes to turn you, showing he'll always think of Tav in a degrading way, it really paints a picture of a toxic and abusive relationship without real hope for all his romantic notions he claims to have. In the other ending, he falls far more into talking genuinely, not overly flowery, just vulnerable and open and admitting he needs you to keep going.

[@realfatemaster]

My question is just: How do you NOT trigger the toxic ending but the healthy one?

[@BelmontCruz]

I had to first tell him twice that he should think of the people who would die. There will come an option for an DC 20 Insight check. If you pass it, you can then get a choice of two DC 15 Persuasion checks to convince him he shouldn't. @@realfatemaster

[@Anchinika]

@@realfatemaster by not letting him Ascend. That simple, really.

[@Jonatron101]

@@realfatemaster High approval, wholesome choices, the insight check to make him realise his motivation for wanting the ritual is dangerous, talk him down from it, help him decide to make the other choice of saving the prisoners and not performing the ritual.

[@samf.s.7731]

He definitely clearly still has it bad. Problem is, this is "vampire love" it's obsession and a desire for possession and control. Kinda like a narcissist's love irl tbh. Like an object, or as he said, like a "pet". Though people do truly love their pets... But he's literally saying she's not intelligent, and definitely not an equal. It's a huge power imbalance, he's exceptionally powerful and she's just relegated to a supporting role.

[@fave525]

Neil nailed and nailed and nailed this character, delivered the lines like nobody else ever has in any video game i've ever played. god, i'm so whipped even though i hate evil Astarion.

[@vivianelaisdefarias]

09:00 the subtle shine on his eyes, the crack on his voice, the details to show he was almost tearing up is amazing

[@Arvalen]

I didn't catch that at first, but you're right. He really seems like he's trying to convince himself more than Tav here.

[@G.F.SF55]

Bruh, I think if devs wanted to show he was crying a little they'd shown it better, at this pint this is either headcanon or delulu

[@asmalltalk]

wow, the ascended Astarion has SO much dialogue and pretty dark responses you can give him of how disappointed you're plus the whole him turning you into a vampire scene. wish we were given more for the non-ascended version, not just for the break up.. as for that I haven't seen anything except that he asks 'why now, after everything I've sacrificed?'. I tried the breakup in my game on exceptional approval and he said 'oh shit, did I do something wrong? why? what's changed?' and then after you choose either of the two responses he says 'if that's what you want, we leave it at that. you brought my dead heart back to life, it will keep beating' and it sounds as if he's about to cry... it's terrible 😭 and if you don't break up with him, it would be nice to get some nice scene in the city.. the graveyard just wasn't enough 😔 we deserve more sweet Astarion content.

[@Idylla3DRenders]

Absolutely !!!

[@annali7189]

The game isn't complete. Larian will release the Definitive edition in the future.

[@105saphira]

True but graveyard date was beautiful

[@LuB8857]

It still isn't fully released?

[@105saphira]

@@LuB8857 It is but there is some cut content and 1) someone important in Larian said that they will work with this brand (expansion new game or both) 2) Larian had history with working on thier game after realese and giving us definitive edition.

[@kekekemer9057]

I DIDNT EXPECT IT WOULD BE THIS HEARTBREAKING

[@duhfoodz1369]

Ascendant Astarion acting like the PC and the rest of camp couldnt beat his ass five ways from Sunday if they needed to

[@dmsviola1]

Mmhm. Lae'Zel with her 3 attacks per turn, plus action surge, plus great weapon fighting. Gale, who can incinerate, disintegrate, dissolve, freeze, polymorph, or just straight up banish him. Shadowheart who could have a bunch of radiant fairies fuck him up or just ask Selune or Shar (depending on how she turns out) to straight up smack him. Etc.

[@altmaster3288]

@@dmsviola1 I love how out of place Great Weapon Fighting is on a list of powerful things.

[@michadybczak4862]

@@dmsviola1 Not really. My Ascended Astarion was 3 assassin/5 gloom stalker/3 fighter (crit specialist)/1 war cleric and because of high dexterity and multiple initiative bonuses from various classes ALWAYS GOES FIRST, and he can do massive damage up to 300 (or more when crits land) in the first round (13 attacks at maximum, I belive, not being hasted). So in a fight with any character, he would destroy them before they could lift a finger. Usually, it is Astarion that takes out 1-3 most powerful enemies in the first round. Sure, later rounds are not so powerful, but still, in average, he is the best melee/ranged fighter with high initiative, crits and raw damage from being ascended.

[@G.F.SF55]

​@@michadybczak4862damn, but with Tav + 5 origin companions + Halsin, Jahera and Minsc, I think we could kill him with sheer numbers

[@ladyselin35]

​@@michadybczak4862 he sucks ass if controlled by pc, try betraying him during ascension or after.

[@justicetears]

This was terribly heartbreaking to watch.. but I am also a bit disappointed at how much extra dialogue there is for this option? I love his romance. I did not let him ascend, it was very sweet and I regret nothing. But... interactions are basically over in one cut scene and a short conversation after. I love the game so much, but I do think that the romances (especially the "good" ones) could have more content. I have progressed incredibly far into act 3 and there has been nothing further, a bit disappointed, even if I loved every second of the short time I did get.

[@asmalltalk]

agreed, we were given so little (though what we got was lovely nonetheless).. once you finish the quest it's just no point even talking to him, it's sad.

[@RoseOfOuran]

I heard that larian will be adding more to characters post endings so maybe they will add more for him qq

[@justicetears]

@@RoseOfOuran I really hope that they do. I finished my first run this last Sunday and even the epilogue scene was disappointing. For a final romance scene I expected it to be a bit more. Still love the game a ton! I started a second run yesterday as Dark Urge. But I am looking forward to what Larian decides to do with the epilogues.

[@justicetears]

@@asmalltalk It really is a shame. More interactions would be so great. It just seems like a lot of work to get to that point and then you get nothing after its all said and done.

[@galaxychar]

You don’t know how lucky you have it even with romancing Astarion with your ending. You’ve still had legitimately more than double the content compared to who I romanced.

[@irmoony]

I know the shit he says as vampire ascendant is supposed to be scary and menacing but a lot of it is so over the top it just makes me laugh lol Not to mention when you reject him he sounds like a scorned child. "I'll be in my cool vampire mansion doing COOL vampire stuff, while you'll be out there being all lame and NOT ruling the world with me, hmph." (And I say all this affectionately 😂)

[@shirokuro6226]

Lol he does have that kind of vibe (because he has no choice but to convince himself), but the other dialogues after that are really just sad and also scary

[@asmalltalk]

don't forget that you can kick him in the balls and he has a lil kid not getting a cookie tantrum lmao

[@irmoony]

@@asmalltalk now to be fair to him, I don't have balls but I'd imagine I'd also throw a tantrum if I got kicked there

[@Undecidedxx]

Haha yes! Especially when he goes “JUST SO YOU KNOW I HAVE EVERYTHING I WANT” lmao 🤣

[@tristan_jtd]

he truly is the most cringefail of them all (affectionate)

[@laningsmith9163]

“I don’t know you anymore. You’re breaking my heart. You are going down a path I can’t follow.”

[@hayleybartek8643]

"One wicked turn deserves another." I think he regretted his Ascendance, and blamed you for it. Now completely alone, with 7006 dead on his conscious, he intended to make you his spawn just so you wouldn't leave him.

[@G.F.SF55]

Lmfao, I love how you didn't count Cazador as one of the dead on his conscious

[@user-kx5en8dg7u]

@@G.F.SF55i think even an angel would sleep well after getting rid of cazador

[@Plaid_pants_panter]

he does blame you, if you ask him " what have you learned from this" he will tell you you are just as responsible , so don't try to play innocent"

[@minares19]

I think the funniest part about this break-up is that whenever you approach him after leaving him (before the "there's no use in us fighting any longer" dialogue), he is SO HURT and otherwise acts so aggressive whenever you initiate a conversation with him. It took me 5 long rests to trigger the dialogue at the 7:28 mark - and "get back to normal" with him. Another fun easter egg that gets set in motion with this specific path is that whenever your character dies in combat, he still screams after you (and whenever I talk to Wyll or Gale in the open world, he actually ROLLS HIS EYES in the background - fun!) Anyway, I'll try to finish the game this way, and see if he propositions we get back together at the very end. I'll update you guys! *Edit no.1:* Not the update everyone is waiting for, since I'm taking my sweet time with gathering allies - HOWEVER I'm pretty sure Astarion has a new line for whenever my Tav dies in combat ("Hang on, I won't let you die! You got that?") I managed to trigger it twice so far and he's never said it before. It could be something totally normal for him to say, but I like to think of it as proof that he still cares for Tav in his own way :") *Edit no.2:* Just visited the drow that wanted Astarion to bite her back in Moonrise Towers - although you can still refuse to visit her home because she was disrespectful towards Astarion, he actually disapproved when I mention him in the conversation. Furthermore, he now doesn’t say anything when you take the Formula Gruna potion (unascended Astarion does comment that he doesn’t want you to take it and get hurt). So, haha, very mixed signals so far *THE UPDATE EVERYONE WANTED YAY:* So... uh... I think my game bugged out. I did end up seeing ascended Astarion in my final cutscene, but he spoke to me as if we were still in a relationship, and not broken up - not in a "I'm delusional and you belong to me no matter what" way, but in the classic "ascended astarion ending" way. I reloaded before the breakup with him and deleted the last couple of saves + in-game caché 💀 I'll play the ending again today and let you all know if anything changes :") I'm sorry if this isn't what everyone expected, but I am determined to get to the bottom of this!

[@ВалерияНикифорова-б7р]

i'll be waiting for an update!

[@tiffm7561]

I'd be quite interested in seeing that!

[@jenni5104]

Let us know!

[@LadyShiver]

Oh I'm curious!!!

[@nuage1291]

I can't wait for update!

[@aerynstormcrow]

Funny how he got all that power and still is so insecure he resorts to insults. 😢

[@rinran8377]

This is so so painful to watch. It's just unbearable. But this video perfectly shows the "lord", not Astarion. There is no more Astarion. MC completely broke him (his feelings, his personality, his chance for believing in himself) by choosing the ritual and the lord repay them in kind.

[@ImNotAWitchImYourWIFI]

Its so gross when our formerly sweet boy says "i love you" and then quickly follows up with "That's what you've been waiting to hear, isnt it? Thats what you want?". He doesn't mean it. It's placating. He will have you, but he doesnt feel anything anymore. Its just good memories with no connections. He wants you because you want him, and he wants to be loved and all powerful without giving anything anymore. Its so sad. He really does turn soulless.

[@cerisedaemon]

Oh wow, thank you for uploading this! All I had seen was the scene of accepting to become his spawn, or his answer to him wanting to break up. All this follow-up after breaking up...is so dark. And even sad, I would say, that he recognizes it's for the best as he would end up only using you and nothing more.

[@UncleverCarapace]

My experience of this game so far is entirely clips on YT and I'm so struck by how profoundly his body language changes throughout the game. In the beginning he's all disarming charm barely concealing deep, DEEP fear. On happier paths, his face softens, his expressions are dynamic, and he looks you straight in the eye. Here, he barely makes eye contact, chin up so that he literally looks down on you. What a performance.

[@cen3684]

imagine going through all his story, all development, just to end up in the starting point jesus christ, thats beautifully cruel Astarion quest's really something - all of the endings hit perfectly

[@odintheterridorable8097]

My plan for my evil Dark Urge playthrough where I’m dating Astarion is to let him take this path, not let him turn me into a spawn, then control the elder brain and him with it. Ultimate uno reverse card.

[@MelissaMcewen]

I did that. It’s funny because Astarion told him to do it, then buddy ends up a thrall again

[@jenni5104]

I think that's the only acceptable dark ending for me too on my durge playthrough. I can't stand the heartache of how cruel he is here so re-enslavement it is.

[@madsb.8097]

I just did the same yesterday haha! I wish the dialogue options reflected Durge a bit better tbh, like it seems to be just default Tav lines. My Durge was fine with murder, but ofc with their inheritance wasn’t going to agree to be a slave, it seems like a silly suggestion. Kind of wish that was addressed 😭

[@pandacherry2858]

The dialogue itself verges on cheesy wattpad but the way Neil Newbon rolls with this is making the hair on my neck stand up. Damn. Just damn. I'm a married woman, evil Astarion! Shoo!

[@Gleowyn]

That's why we love cheesy wattpad stories. They have their allure - especially in Newbon's voice and delivery. I almost hate how good it is!

[@cthulhuhoops]

Absolutely nothing wrong with cheesy dialog.

[@falconeshield]

Ao3 is still the best for that

[@pandacherry2858]

@@falconeshield oh yeah sis I am a ao3 girlie 🥸

[@Louves192]

So Cazador was right about the ritual. Astarion's soul is bound to it and by going through with the ritual his soul got sacrificed. The ritual required 7000 souls - a true vampire like Cazador doesn't have a soul, so he was never a suitable replacement. His writing in this outcome is so accurate. He tells you whatever you want to hear to lure you in, to bind you to him. Until you cannot leave. Like a real world abuser. I can't even let him do the ritual just for fun, it gives me anxiety. It's just too real.

[@damien678]

Vampire's in DnD get something called 'Dark Desire' that twists all their purest feelings. So any feelings of love gets changed into lust and obsession. I was curious about how it'd work for Astarion, though...gotta say I like that interpretation of it

[@sundaddy1077]

Ohhh it all makes sense now, i always thought it was somethink like if he was power hungry and cruel enough to go through he has already become this. But this explanation is much better, and doesnt feel forced imo

[@l.p.7173]

Wow seems like in the end he tried to convince himself that you did the good choice to leave him, so deep x)

[@asmalltalk]

if you go along with letting him turn you, there's an option for insight check and narrator says that you're degrading yourself to him and he knows it so yeah, refusing him is definitely better as he admits in this dialogue he'd ruin you.

[@l.p.7173]

@@asmalltalk I know but I did it anyway because I love my man dark in this playthrough 😂 We love a little domination 😂😂 I'll do not ascendent Astarion my second playthrough!

[@justalex8502]

Okay but the background noises are killing me. The upstairs neighbor has no chill during this important moment lmao

[@itrorev]

The fact that he referred to you as a "pet" tells you everything.

[@GarfieldCultist]

Has no one in the DnD playerbase ever heard of bdsm

[@jenni5104]

​@@GarfieldCultistIf you think this is BDSM, I'm starting to think you haven't. OR you're doing it wrong and trying to find excuses for your abuse.

[@itrorev]

@@GarfieldCultist We've heard of BDSM but most of us know little about it, aside from the stereotypical image of a woman in leather whipping a guy tied up in a bondage suit and telling him to beg like dog.

[@olesyativuel]

He has already used “pet” in the brothel and everyone was okay about it.

[@itrorev]

@@olesyativuel different context. There where hot drow twins, changes everything.

[@Carolina57685]

And he even admits that if you stayed with him he would've used you and your love...and people still don't believe that Ascended Astarion doesn't actually love the PC

[@dmsviola1]

To be fair, there's a bit of nuance to it. It 100% isn't love like some people try to rationalize or headcanon. It's something far more twisted, akin to toxic possessiveness, but that's what happens when someone becomes a vampire. Normal and healthy emotions become dark mirrors of themselves.

[@GarfieldCultist]

Ascended Astarion loves the PC in the same twisted but romantic way that some BDSM Doms love their submissives. Think of it like that. And it makes sense because in DnD lore, that's exactly how vampires love. It's dark, possessive, controlling, twisted, and bittersweet. The good option is a more vanilla take on relationships, even though he has a thousand yard stare and looks extremely miserable in the graveyard cutscene after the talk.

[@damien678]

Vampire's in DnD get something called 'Dark Desire' that twists all their purest feelings. So any feelings of love gets changed into lust and obsession.

[@astridhassel1197]

I don't think one can really compare it to bdsm. As Astarion is continuing a cycle of abuse, and not of love. He says it himself, he would've ruined PC's love until they were nothing, also saying "I can take anything I want. I should have made you a spawn just to teach you that." He does not love PC, he is obsessive and wants to own them. That is not love. BDSM is not abuse, it's consent, and there are safewords and care involved. @@GarfieldCultist

[@antagonistlover]

@@astridhassel1197 he says so cause he is bitter. After all, he has no one except Tav. And seeing her wanting to breaks up is something his wounded heart cannot handle, so his reaction (although toxic) is quite understandable. Not a good thing to say to your love ofc, but when was he ever good with handling his emotions?

[@elishajones1286]

Interesting. I went the good route, so this seems to ring like he is being possessive with wanting to create a spawn, because then he knows you can't ever leave him and after refusing that he is pretending that you mean nothing, but even one of the choices is that you note he isn't being genuine. Seems like he loves you but the power corrupted him to now see it as a "I can't bear to ever let you leave" thing. His fear of being hurt is still alive as well for his ascension I see.

[@nootnewt3]

How do you get the good route

[@elishajones1286]

@@nootnewt3 Spoilers You just don't let him ascend. You tell him that helping him will kill a lot of people and then you have to pass a persuasion check. There is also an insight check you can do if you romance him that lets you see what is driving this desire to ascend that will show an alternate persuasion check.

[@lunabloodstone]

DnD vampire lore is cruel. Love turns into lust and obsession

[@damien678]

​@@lunabloodstone Yeah. Dark Desire really is heartbreaking

[@polinazaitseva2016]

I wonder, what's the answer after "Only if you apologies. Profusely"

[@minares19]

He says that he doesn’t remember how to - and that he'll have to "read a tomb" to fulfil Tav's request. (He doesn’t say that he won't apologise per se - but the tone is very mocking.) BUT after 3 (?) long rests, he told me he hasn't forgotten what I told him and that he still "regrets the way we ended things" (I guess that's his best apology lmao)

[@simashoker7968]

@@minares19 Thats a unique cutscene! also the datamined epilogue that wasnt released noted that Ascended Astarion does think of his lover but finds it beneath him to reach out to them. So its obvious either out of possession/ obsession (DnD lore) or insecurity perhaps he still yearns for Tav. Just doesnt have the gonads to ask for her back (gotta love the megalomania and ego).

[@thomaskostrov203]

Oh, I had exactly the same choice. I was shocked by Astarion's changes after the ritual. I didn't expect this! Of course, I broke up with him after he became a completely different person. And the song playing in the morning after breakup is so sad, omg, i'm crying

[@Laurannah101]

" i let him sacrifice 7000 innocent souls i didnt know he'd turn out evil!" haha what

[@luney1283]

he's saying such awful, manipulative, disgusting things to your Tav and she's still being way too nice to him. I wanted her to hand it to him

[@techne360]

You can say yes to becoming a spawn and then kick him in the balls instead of letting him do it lol

[@tainadeoliveira]

I haven't let him ascend so I'm watching this out of curiosity, and it confirms what I thought. Astarion himself stated something like "vampires are power-hungry beasts. Why would they trade a slave for a competitor?" And this illustrates this perfectly. He became Cazador 2.0, and he believes himself superior to all in existence. I'm pretty sure Tav would only become a slave trophy, eventually. Unless they keep the tadpole and it keeps Astarion's influence off. When "good" Astarion is all done with his business he states that you are equal. To me that made it clear that the relationship would have been toxic and one-sided after he got his powers

[@robirb_]

Astarion: "Of course I understand love. All too well." Me, immediately: AAANNND YOU CALL ME UP AGAIN JUST TO BREAK ME LIKE A PROMISE, SO CASUALLY CRUEL IN THE NAME OF BEING HONEST--

[@naurrr]

it's so sad that he went from saying "I love you" and not meaning it, to finally genuinely meaning it, but after he turns he definitely doesn't feel the same way anymore. ascending destroyed who he was and he genuinely has no empathy, just became what Cazador was. 😔

[@Lightmagician60]

there are so many layers to this. you're just watching a man unravel... trying to tie himself back together, but every attempt only misses the point and makes him unravel more

[@ALifeAllMineinthe303]

Gosh he really is one of the best written characters. I don’t like him here at all, but LOVE this direction.

[@AlleyCryptid]

'Sorry baby, the lady slinging is aggressive AF today.' ( ´～｀)

[@HeartEyesMF]

“The greatest crimes in this world are committed for love” - oh u mean what MC let’s u get away with in the evil ending Astarion?

[@rachelmazza4079]

This game did not have to go so hard but IT DID. We got a masterpiece on our hands oh my god

[@static_kitten]

me, after ascending astarion and becoming his spawn, now watching him say he would ruin my love and use my trust until im nothing: 👁👄👁

[@tinytitmouse7019]

He will undoubtedly get nasty if tav ever tries to step out of line as his spawn. Try breaking up with him after that. He will either get nasty or after the final fight “don’t be stupid you’re mine now” and would be able to compel tav at that point

[@razrv3lc]

Astarion’s story feels so sad. There’s no real good ending for him. Ascension is easily the worst option. It ruins him. Staying as a spawn without a master is objectively a better choice but then he’s stuck in the shadows again but he realizes that ascension was bad for him (if you succeed the persuasion check to stop him from going through with it).

[@nellialperovich4522]

I mean in dnd world there’s a way to make him stop being a vampire and become human again, so there’s still hope 😢

[@itsarubiks]

Also Tav isn't immortal and will die on him eventually, the first person he ever cared for. That is heartbreaking

[@Geronimo_89]

It's actually kinda okay since my Tav is a drow. We'll have a cosy house in the Underdark together. Maybe somewhere in the Myconid village.

[@Laurannah101]

bro living in the shadows isnt even that bad lol

[@russanloke]

@@Geronimo_89 Minsc confirms that he lives in the underdark if you speak to him at the end C: Also you can set off in an adventure to find a cure and he is thrilled about it. My Tav is a ranger so they are more than ok living in the underdark^^

[@jerryskeepero]

Wow, that is a very powerful betrayal of lover’s split where all the one wants is to hurt the other. Neil did an AMAZING job.

[@Xxsorafan]

True vampire astarion is incapable of love he has no soul now. It would just be a facade of obsession

[@damien678]

Because of Dark Desires, vampire's previous feelings of love turn into lust and obsession. So he's not putting it on when he's being possessive, but any care he had for an equal partner to love? Unfortunately that's an act. A ghost of the part of him that died when he ascended.

[@hobbes296]

It's sad you can't become a vampire with him and rule together, without him using you as a slave.

[@lisdraconis2212]

"The biggest threat to a vampire is another vampire." - Astarion in Act 1

[@eoozy2617]

Eventually you would backstab him or he would backstab you, like he said vampires are backstabbing, scheming creatures that lust for power.

[@hobbes296]

@@lisdraconis2212 Yeah, I remember that. Still. It would have been nice.

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

@@eoozy2617 Or at least that is the dark lesson that Cazador indoctrinated into Astarion, the rules that Cazador's own master imprinted into Cazador (if you find and interact with the skull of Cazador's master in Cazador's study in the Red Palace as Astarion): That a vampire should never have friends. That a vampire should always strive to dominate lest he be destroyed by its enemies. And Ascended Astarion's trust issues have become full-blonw paranoia, so he follows those rules. While non-ascended Astarion managed to reject them... but only if you are there for him and helped him overcome his trauma and indoctrination. If Tav doesn't exist (in an Origins run where you play as Astarion) or nobody cared enough for him to be there for him and stay with him after the battle against the Absolute, Astarion's future is pretty bleak as a non-ascended spawn as well, frankly. What choices or chance does he have when he can't even walk in the sun anymore?

[@PriestessxNat]

I like to imagine a "What if" of Tav realizing Astarion wouldn't see her as his equal as his Spawn while still wanting to be with him, and seeks out another Vampire to be changed by and eventually betray to become a full vampire, to one day return to him.

[@adrienneinchi]

Thank you for the upload. It’s the first like it that I have seen - no one else is posting exploration of this content. Apparently there is also a response in which he reassures you that he’ll replace you pretty quickly, but no one has posted that, either. It’s all so dark, darling.

[@minares19]

That happens if you 1st agree to let him turn you, but then get cold feet in the middle of the act (after the insight check)! He throws a hissy fit and boasts that he'll find someone else to share a bed with, someone "just like you" 💀 ... he then literally leaves your party forever LMAO At least that's how it was for me when I tried it out

[@kekekemer9057]

@@minares19 WHAT LMAO

[@minares19]

@@kekekemer9057 YEP. HE'S SO GOOFY

[@kekekemer9057]

@@minares19 ok now i want to find a fanfic where tav and astarion meet again in baldur's gate after everything ends and he sees Tav happily with another man CAUSE iM PISSED LMAO

[@kkkk-uh1cu]

Pfffft, the words of a man so "over" it

[@ZZmeyka]

In the next Baldur's Gate game, Astarion will be the raid boss...

[@simashoker7968]

So I just did this - and if you decide to kill Astarion to the point where he leaves - he actually attacks you - and Gale and Karlach are against resurrecting him each time and also are the ONLY companions of mine that supported me fighting against him. Guess that tells you what they think of Ascended Astarion eh? Also I was really touched they stood by me

[@IwarinJones]

It makes sense. He's obsessed and wanted to make sure Tav will not leave him, thats why he wanted her to be a spawn. Its obsession and control. Is ot love? Yes and no. No true love, not healthy. There are feelings but not in a good way. However, when Tav breaks up he is not genuine, I can see he just wants to hurt her and make her regret leaving him. I do believe he says some nice things to her because he believes she wants to hear it so she stays with him. (Thats why he says "thats you want? Thats you want to hear?)To be honest, its sad thst all the power he has now, hes so insecure, especially when it comes to Tav. So, the only thing what he thinks make her stay forever is to make her a spawn, in truth, she/he is the one thing he always wanted and the power does not make him happy when she/he is not at his side.

[@vestah2922]

Wow. I didn't expect that they even have the follow up with break up. I am so happy i had "good" Astarion.

[@Pesztike66]

Wow, he becomes such a clown if you go through with the ritual. Glad I went with the other option :D

[@emotionalnpc]

He's barely even the same person, it hurts to watch

[@komiwee8894]

in my first playthrough, i ascended astarion because it's bascially what he wants most since the beggining of the game. then i saw how much he changed that it broke my heart, and i went back to my save file before he ascended: i hated how he was letting that power get to his head, he bascially became the thing he hates most, he became cazador.. in the end, i really prefer the ending where he doesnt ascend, it's so much more emotional and worth it if you wanna have a romatic relashionship with astarion (and tbh the power he gets from ascending aren't that good)

[@tropicaldisaster8135]

Welp. I WAS gonna let him ascend but not if he's just gonna see me under him. The kinky side of me is into it but I'll take my regular sweet vampy

[@NC-ij9rb]

"You came so far only to slip now" "You'll reget leaving me!" Are you saying that to us or to yourself? 😢

[@meowser1905]

Apparently Astarion resents being allowed to become an Ascended Vampire. Which makes this all the more devastating. Misery loves company after all.

[@MacFlytrap]

And there’s people who actually still think ascended Astarion loves Tav….

[@grundgutigertv6170]

I only love one thing: Playing a character who is even more abusive than Ascended Astarion and uses him for his own selfish desires for eternal youth and immortality. Ah, being evil with AA is so enjoyable 😂

[@NightlySonata]

Thank you for uploading this I would never have had it in me to do this route..... 💔

[@Coolkat1102]

Acended scares me it makes me so sad to see him like this he lost all of his progress he made and just became like cazador 😭😭

[@nk6763]

Astarion has many smiles. The smile at 8:42 looks almost exactly like a scene from waaay earlier in the game where you can do a wisdom check to reveal that his smile is too composed to be genuine. He is 100000% hiding something here. It's right after he tells Tav that he would have used her trust until she was nothing. I believe the words themselves are true, but the sentiment is where he's hiding something. I wonder what he would have to gain from hiding anything from Tav at this point- he's a powerful Ascendant vampire, and she's a mortal, increasingly distant memory. Maybe that's some small element of the old Astarion trying to creep through that he is trying to force down to ease his acclimation to his new role. I know that an Ascendant vampire's personality is often a grossly twisted version of its former self, but it's not necessarily an instant process- some small part of the old Astarion is in there, even if it will likely fade away with time until it becomes nothing more than a moment that comes to him in a fleeting instant once every century or so.

[@RieAimy]

Thank god they asked Neil Newbon to be less "horny" while delivering his lines because he is already killing me with this "to be mine" !

[@oathlivionn]

the amount of pity i feel for him, because idk- it just, i feel like he's scared even *more* now underneath all that "You will regret leaving me." this is so... toxic. this ending for him is truly heartbreaking ,,

[@VegetaSoup]

Tbh, I feel like even if he doesn’t turn you or you break up, he’s so gone and will probably just eventually force you. Like if you’re romancing him and break up, he’s so possessive that I doubt he’ll just let that go.

[@GoldenFrizbee]

When you ascend him and speak to him on your next long rest he mentions how he wasnt sure it was the right choice, and thats way before the power and security gets to his mind. :( its like he knew it was going to change him.

[@veronicashields4405]

Something I love about the dialogue here is you get the sense he would ultimately become your Cazador, not only because of the D&D vampire alignment, but because he resents the player character for pushing him to ascend. Since he doesn’t ascend if left to his own choice, that means the player character is the sole influence to do so. In a way, you simply wind up doing to him what Cazador always had: pushing him to act selfishly and immorally out of fear of being helpless. He’s supposed to be untouchable now, yet deep down, he knows he’s really not. His power will attract challenges, and if it loses his lover, then it flies in the face of the promise you both saw in it. He was supposed to have everything, and somehow he doesn’t. The deaths of those 7000 people will always be on his soul. He will always have to live with it, and he can never forgive himself or you for that. He can’t if he wants to live with himself. It had to be worth it. He can never admit Cazador won in all the ways that mattered.

[@jessblues848]

he ascended when i left him to his own choice

[@veronicashields4405]

@@jessblues848 If you don’t push him to do better morally early in game/are playing a corruption run, then he will choose to ascend, yes. It’s strongly linked to the player’s actions is a better clarification of my point. I should have worded it better.

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

Oh gods, this is heartbreaking. @Tivuel: Could you please upload Astarion's replies to the other dialogue choices, like "Do you mean the ritual didn't give you the powers you hoped for?", "I thought you were perfect when we first met. What a waste you became this." and "What is happening to you? The ritual has changed you so much."

[@Uneclipsed]

If you read the rules for being a vampire, it's very heavily implied that you can't become a true vampire without being willing and able to kill your master. Allowing Astarion to ascend with the promise he'll make you a vampire is only ever going to lead to a bad end for him and Tav 😭He gunna keep you as spawn forever

[@simashoker7968]

HOLY SHIT THAT LINE: he would have forced you to become a spawn...and take anything...OK I am actually SHOCKED

[@damien678]

Vampire's in DnD get something called 'Dark Desire' that twists all their purest feelings. So any feelings of love gets changed into lust and obsession.

[@jenni5104]

All of this just tears my heart in two. Every single bit of it.

[@mulqueen2023]

I can't imagine being on the audio team and having to edit Neil's line, 'To be mine forever'. Like hot damn I'm just here simping from listening to it, they must have been salivating.

[@vnss_wav]

ikr dayummm

[@atd.5763]

Watching this really seems like he is projecting everything onto you. "You came so far, only to slip now. Such a pity." REALLY sounds like he is talking about himself :(

[@TheTrashcanCat]

Man is going through 75 stages of grief

[@narutogirl-sc2xh]

Yo, this breaks my heart so much. You can see how damaged he still is when you take the ascension romance route.

[@misami213]

7:42 he is so butthurt about the break up "it is for the best" like just admit you love her and you cant loose her. 8:22 I can tell he refuse to admit it.

[@ladyselin35]

Even Ascension couldnt stop him feeling sad for losing Tav. He wasnt like yeah whatever go break up from me.

[@misami213]

I want to know what he says if you chose " whats happening to you? the ritual changed you so much"

[@ilovechriscolfer111]

no matter how i try to rationalize it, ascended Astarion only makes me depresso XD

[@babymj3942]

Damn 😭😭 I just wanted his ass to be happy

[@readingwithgoblins]

I wish the singer would quiet down at the end. I can barely hear what he's saying.

[@GedenWilbur]

Nice guy Astarion, "I love you" and then after a rejection "Well you're just not worthy"

[@enriquecastillo3664]

The storm sounds really completes it. Love it!

[@russanloke]

Honestly him ascending is entirely Tav's fault, the game throws SO many hints at you, and if all that goes over your mind, you can pass an insight check and the game tells you that he is not himself, that he is intoxicated by power hungry impulses and he is not thinking clearly, very similar to the dark urge impulses. So the right thing to do is to help him in his greatest moment of need and kindly nudge him to not ascend. I will protect the little scrap of soul he has left with tooth and nail in every playthrough :') So thank you for recording every dialog so i dont have to do it :____)

[@Aerial03]

So, my Tav helped Astarion Ascend, refused to become a vampire spawn, after a couple of rests, Astarion came to "apologize". Agreed not to fight with each other anymore. In the end, before destroying the brain, he dropped a phrase roughly along the lines of "I know what you're thinking, let's take control of the brain". After destroying the brain, Astarion was silent as a grave, no phrases with other characters, nor before the credits. Such a pity. :/

[@mistle_rat]

So let's just make a list of facts. - Astarion explicitly says that he wants to be seen for who he is and not for who Tav wants him to be. Let's ignore that, he's obviously not in his right mind, we know better. - He begs Tav to help him with the ritual in a trebling voice, standing his ground up to the very end. - In any scenario, unless you perform a last minute persuasion check he either leaves the group or attacks you. Either way, he doesn't see remaining a spawn as freedom. - If you refuse to help him he breaks the staff and leaves the prisoners to rot (which shows how much he changed becoming a better person) - After the insight check you learn that he craves "freedom to do anything, to be anything". Sounds like basic human rights to me. - As a Vampire Lord Astarion will become a one-of-a-kind living vampire with a "pounding heart". His "arousals and appetites of man" will return to him. So basically he's more human than the undead spawn? - Comparison to Casazor is not accurate, because Cazador was an undead creature dreaming of being alive again (according to thought detection), Astarion just skips the boring true vampire undead part and gets to "enjoy the luxuries of the living" - After the ritual, the dude literally chills within a few adjustment days and quickly comes back to his senses. A power hungry monster would want to get the power of the Elder Brain for himself and would make Tav to get it for him. Instead, he is okay with "whatever this tale ends" and "wouldn't want to presume." - He cares about Tav nevertheless, like in the post-Haarlep scene. In the end asks what you want to do and agrees to whatever you say. - As a spawn he is okay with killing 7000 people if you say so (such a changed empathetic character, putting them to the mercy, whereas sacrifice is evil ofc) - If Tav breaks up with spawn Astarion after the Rite, he will say that he sacrificed everything for her and that he rejected the Ritual for Tav only - As a spawn he will remain a slave to eternal hunger - The only thing he enjoys so much that he can't stop talking about it is sunlight, yet Tav is ready to take the responsibility of robbing him of this joy forever - He knows Tav for how long? A year? Half a year? Yet it is a good reason to give up a desire that he has been cherishing for 200 years prior - As a spawn who lost all tadpole perks he becomes even weaker, than in the beginning of the story. Meaning, in a world of slavery, necromancy, cults, monster hunters, evil wizards, demons and basic farmer crowds with pitchforks he will be a creature for whom the daylight is deadly, who can't leave the area if it is surrounded by rivers, and who can't enter houses uninvited. Sounds safe. - In a weak state as a spawn with no tadpole to protect him, he's going to have to rely on Tav for protection. She ofc can go wherever and whenever she likes. The possibility of him slipping into his old ways out of fear (like in the beginning of the story when he needed Tav's protection) is very much there. - Tav is mortal and will die, while spawn Astarion will be there to live eternal life that Tav chose for him. - You free his siblings who immediately say that they dream of feeding on thinking creatures. It's a good thing that another persuasion check is there to flip yet another personality to ban them from ever acting on it. As for the downside facts: - Ascended Astarion says "on your knees, darling", which is obviously a kink and not a humiliation, since he kneels down beside you immediately and gives you a choice on how to proceed - Tav gets a nasty wisdom check - He is extra salty if you break up with him and says whatever he needs to say to persuade himself his life is perfect without Tav. Like all of us, regular people who go through nasty breakups - Same goes for a spawn Astarion, who says that rejecting the Rite was for the best, and this is said by a man who has to comfort himself while getting used to being an eternal nocturnal creature, doomed to lurk alone in the shadows. - As for a spawn-vampire thing, I see it not as a slave/master thing but more as a link that would connect Tav and Astarion on a deeper level, similarly to the tadpoles. You can't really be together if you are from different realms and do not feel/understand each other. Really, these pros and cons are SO difficult to weigh...

[@olesyativuel]

I wish more people could think out of the box and see this, give a chance to AscAsty and accept this route as just alternative path. Not "bad" one, but ofc evil.

[@asmalltalk]

you make quite good points which I agree, do make sense... I'll just add my own thougths why I didn't ascend him.. from lore perspective vampire lords are inherently evil and with ascension you're making him what he HATED for over 2 centuries. he himself says so that vampires are power hungry creatures who cannot have a competition. and when you explore Cazador's dungeon there's a pretty solid proof how Cazador was once a tortured spawn himself and impaled for 11 years because he disobeyed. until he rebelled and killed his master. who knows if by ascension we're not condemning Astarion to the same fate eventually? (even though it is true that he does become a different kind of vampire). on top of that there's nothing great about being surrounded by a horde of slaves and turning your loved one into one as well. not to mention how he explicitly says he'd ruin you and your love for him, and he thinks LESS of you when you comply and kneel in front of him, etc. you're not only sacrificing his own soul to the ritual but your relationship as well. ascension is a diabolical act, even the devil himself Raphael tells you so. despite aaaaall the benefits it's still bad. even though I do agree with what you said about us as players refusing him his 'dream' when we persuade him out of it, he wouldn't be able to do the ritual without us. the player is there solely as a tool to either stop him or enable him. when you actually go to the coffin with him only, with rest of the party ungrouped and further away, he just kills Cazador (there's no voice line about taking the power from him) and then he releases the prisoners. it doesn't trigger any of the moments of him being upset at us and leaving either. let's not forget he learned about the ritual in act 2, he didn't know anything about it for 200 years so his only dream throughout that time was to be free of Cazador's abuse. my last point is, ascend him when you're not romancing him-that'd be my go to if he was only a friend in my game. in my first playthrough I did try both options and honestly I was just so creeped out when he immediately started talking about world domination and how he can hear how everyone begs to obey, etc. he just seemed much colder to me. I believe Asty needs a therapist, not a diabolical ritual. without ascension (as this is a fantasy world) I'm sure you will be able to live long with him and find a skillful wizard along the way who could help him..like for instance that book Necromancy of Thay-it is never really explored in game what it can do. I guess it was abandoned by Larian. if Gale can become a God then Asty can be cured or have some effects of vampirism eliminated without killing 7000 people for it.

[@mistle_rat]

​@@asmalltalk Since there is nothing in the lore about living vampires, we can speculate here however we want. He is indeed a different kind of vampire. If you give Astarion away to the Gur in Act 1, you will be able to detect Cazador's thoughts and you will learn that he is miserable as undead and he was possessed by the idea of the ritual because he desperately wanted to feel alive again. The same fate is possible for Astarion while he remains an undead spawn, eternal hunger, creature of the night. By making him alive we are automatically making him different from Cazador. Even if the events on the surface suggest that he becomes the same, it is not the case. From here it is only the matter of your perception. He didn't know about the ritual, it is true, but he has been seeking power all this time, because he was sick of being a weakling, and this is exactly what happens to him in another ending: he falls even further, than in the beginning of his story. He is back in his slave state with Tav as a soft new master who grants protection from now on instead of Cazador. Also something to consider: if he and Tav were to break up for some reason, he would contemplate the Rite rejection choice he made for Tav, the possible future he lost forever, and I feel really sorry for him when he would come to the sad conclusions. As for him after the ritual, he explicitly says, that he feels so different, that he has to take time to adjust to his new condition. He feels so much power, he has never been even 1/1000 this powerful for his whole life and especially for the las 200 years. He is quite literally drunk on power, his body is alive again, you can only imagine the chemical hurricane happening inside the man. Of course it affects the way he thinks and the things he says. As for him and Tav... Yes, their relationship definitely takes a gothic turn, but it is obvious to me that he cares about Tav. As for the breakup lines, come on, he is so arrogant and haughty, with all this new power he thinks he can achieve anything. All these words he is saying more to himself than to Tav. This would be too much for his pride to actually admit that had lost an important person in his life. He is being extremely resentful, and the overacting is giving it away. He is hurt and he wants Tav to be hurt too. Regarding future plans. Yes, he says all these things, but saying is not the same as acting on the things you say. Throughout Act 3 you don't get any "evil" stuff from him anymore, he gets more and more chill every day. He also says it doesn't matter how the tale ends. As I said, he would have made Tav to get the crown or conquer the Elder Brain. I believe that after some time of getting used to his new state, the main wave of power intoxication soothes and he feels more like himself. At least this is what hes real actions show us, not words. He also says that he wants to spend a decade with Tav in his palace, enjoying each other (he can feel the pleasure of sex again once he restored his "arousals of a man"). It is understandable poor boy is all over the place during this period of adjustment. As for the 7000 spawn - they are lost, 200 years starving in the dungeons, slowly going insane. If you let them out, they will slay every woman, man and child in Baldur's Gate in the matter of minutes. Both endings is about someone being submissibe to another. You have to pick the lesser evil. Spawn Astarion says they are equals, but it is just not true. Spawn Astarion depends on Tav. On another hand, Tav depends on Lord Astarion, there is no other ending out there. And they did a clever thing. In the spawn ending they gave Tav instant gratification: Astarion is finally fixed, her project is complete. He's immediately so sweet, too sweet, he doesn't look like himself anymore, he talks in a way he never spoke before. It seems like a good ending, because he is "good", but it is miserable in the long run for the reasons I stated in the first comment. The Lord ending seems awful from the start, but the more you play Act 3, the more you see old Astarion coming back, exactly the way he was when you fell for him in the first place. And they have enternity to figure out what they want to be and what they want to achieve, sounds like a win in the long run for me. As for the solo Astarion at Cazador's - in origin story you have an option to remember your scars. In your example you get the good ending w/o the persuasion check, because there is no one to read the runes on his back and the system has no other choice. He also thanks Tav for help afterwards, as if she was there, which is weird, because she didn't help him and wasn't there. Looks like a bug to me.

[@XunYu-li7rl]

I'd like to add, maybe part of the reason Astarion doesn't offer for Tav to become a true vampire is because he's aware it would twist Tav's personality/alignment. If Tav remained a spawn, s/he still retains their original personality, which is what Astarion fell for. The argument about him not wanting to create a competitor is equally valid, but I feel like this reason could also play a small part, and I haven't seen it brought up anywhere.

[@mistle_rat]

@@XunYu-li7rl he actually says that she was perfect before and hard to improve. I think he sincerely adores her frozen beauty in the morning dialogue and he actually comments on being herself thing. But I actually read "staying herself" for Tav as she will continue to have free will, bc spawn is still a vampire and vampire's soul gets twisted after death.

[@reverieanimates887]

I chuckle a bit when I see the player just pause for a moment trying to choose the dialogue. You can feel the dread about it.

[@user-ey7qi9iz8r]

This is genuinely heartbreaking. The dramatic music is not making it any less sad!

[@Rathian03]

His love turned into obsession. That's why I think that even after breaking up with Astarion, Tav will never truly get rid of him.

[@BlitzedPixie]

I had to cackle at his 180 at the very end.

[@Jacqli-Rivoli]

I don't like this. If people want to delude themselves into thinking being in a relationship with him post ascension is some fairy tale whirlwind romance where you get to live out all your vampire power dynamic fantasies so long as you enable him, that's your prerogative. But it's not mine. In the end, it's a game and we all can choose whatever we want to do. But let's not sit here and pretend like he doesn't become a walking cluster of red flags if you let him destroy his soul for this "freedom".

[@coffeefordinner]

I'm cleansing my brain from Dragon Age Veilguard by playing BG3 (for the first time!). The writing in this game is phenomenal. So many paths for such an interesting cast of characters. Such nuanced exploration of difficult topics. The absolute freedom to be as wicked or and pure as you want. Thank you Larian.