Taxes, Trade,Tariffs and Trump with Robert Reich and Stephen Moore -- Point/Counterpoint

In an effort to bridge political divides, the UC Berkeley Office of the Chancellor and the Center on Civility & Democratic Engagement host a spirited conversation on taxes, tariffs, trade and President Trump with two economists known for their opposing views: Goldman School of Public Policy Professor and former US Secretary of Labor Robert Reich and Stephen Moore, a visiting fellow for the Project for Economic Growth at the Heritage Foundation.
Recorded on 03/20/2018. [5/2018] [Show ID: 33505]
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[@snoopysnoops3389]

Listening to this video in mid 2019, I must say I have great great respect for Prof. Reich in his knowledge and care for the people. We shouldn’t let people labeling in obscuring our focus on social issues!

[@joekofoed7301]

Listening to Mr Moore IS A WASTE OF TIME

[@K1989L]

Thank you Robert Reich and Stephen Moron for this great debate!

[@Xantrah]

I didn't realize that Medicare and Social Security were massive unfunded liabilities. Someone needs to explain that to my payroll, considering they keeping taking money from every single check I've ever received specifically for those 'unfunded liabilities'.

[@WA_S_S_AW]

Xantrah yup, we’ve borrowed about 1.5 trillion from China over the years to pay those entitlements. Every year. That was the deal. The Chinese borrow us the money to pay those entitlements when they buy our treasury bonds and then they never redeem those bonds because we buy the most stuff from China. From Electronics to stupid plastic things, pretty much everything. If we want to renegotiate the deal by having a trade war with them now they probably won’t buy our bonds anymore and will probably dump the bonds they already hold. Remember our taxes and withholdings merely pay the interest on the national debt, we borrow pretty much the rest of the budget, military to food stamps and everything in between .

[@zackamania6534]

Yeah, I guess FICA is some magical being! Moore is horrible!

[@jamesloehr641]

We wouldn't need them if employers paid people what they deserve. If we still had retirement pensions and affordable healthcare.

[@netwonc]

the economy story told to the people is a real "shell" game for the citizens of the united states and they have been buying it for many generations. EXPECT NO CHANGE.

[@sharann3482]

WA S actually the US borrows money from the Social Security Entitlements to pay for non-social spenditures. The Social Security Net was never underfunded since it’s implementation in 1937. From the 18.2 Trillion US Debts in 2015, 5.1 Trillion is owned to the US Social Security

[@garygraham2513]

I tried really hard to sit thru this, but I Can't Stand Stephen Moore. Few people raise my intolerance faster.

[@jpotter2086]

Mr. Moore, your assumption of indolence is very insulting. "Work" need not be of the wage slavery model. If I were blessed by fiscal independence, my productive efforts would only be constrained by time. As it is, I am constrained by finances AND time, and I am forced to sell so much of my time securing finances, which starves my own endeavors of the time they need.

[@romlyn99]

So exhausted by work that I don't have the energy to do anything for myself. Work in a great part is selling my intelligence, time and energy for money - a form of slavery. But corporations want that.

[@FakingANerve]

@@romlyn99 I agree with what I believe is your sentiment stated here, but "selling" might not be the proper word. Selling those things isn't indicative of slavery. Depleting those things is. If a job depletes you of those things and leaves you with a bankruptcy of energy, time, and opportunity, than THAT is a form of slavery. Without those three resources, you're absolutely stuck without outside intervention.

[@Bytefiend]

It annoys the hell of me that every discussion in this country starts with "both" sides instead of all sides. This country only acknowledges binary approaches to issues which means every discussion is about beating an opponent not finding solutions.

[@C3yl0]

To be honest I agree with you in this point. Why not make a discourse with more sides like capitalistic, Marxist, MMT, and so and each expose their argument and allow people to learn more about many sides of the economical perspectives. Economics has many school of thoughts.

[@rayray4192]

The American bus has ran off the road and hit a tree and talking heads are arguing about who’s going to drive the bus. America does need a new model/ solution.

[@patshelby9285]

@@C3yl0 I think that is an excellent start. If we could reach that level of open discussion, we would stand a chance of healing our obsessive ignorance.

[@tedphillips3119]

They're all Masons. Their religion is Dualism. As above as below.

[@jmas2312]

Thank you!

[@PepinsSpot]

Listening to Stephen Moore is exhausting! PS I am not talking about the subject matter. His pace and his nervousness is overwhelming.

[@AndreasDelleske]

Pepins Spot to me it sounds he makes everything up on the fly.

[@cptsky47]

Note: Companies want trained workers, but the companies aren't interested in supporting people to get the training. It's all up to the worker. When the worker is out of work, how do they pay for and live on 6 months (if they are lucky) of unemployment benefits. The US gov is not committed at all in helping people train for these jobs. Technical education programs and university degrees are both extremely expensive. So, take out loans that crush people for years and years. And Mr. Moore's comment on West Va. coal jobs is wrong, the coal industry is not "comming back". Also, the tech world is developing clean technologies to produce electric power, such as wind and solar. Republican Trump promised the best Health Care System, cheaper and more accessable to people, and did nothing. The price of education and medicine for the public are extremely inflationary. Every thing we do in the Amercan Capitalist System has to be monitized. Regulations are so necessary. Trump wants to get rid of overtime pay. What is even real in the Trump economy. It appears that we now have the fake White House.

[@C3yl0]

Yes! We need to stop letting the market solve our issues and manipulating it.

[@harrykim4513]

What is Stephen Moore smoking? We got more tech but we'er all drowning in debt. Wage slavery in the land of plenty.

[@nathanbutcher5263]

Make better decisions? Really? The point is that the mean American wage is the same as it was 40 years ago but the economy is three times as profitable and the price of EVERYTHING has gone up. From having most families with one provider to now having both parents work AND drown in credit card debt just to buy basic services! Last year, just for shits and giggles I looked up the starting salary of my first three jobs out of college in the 90s- they pay EXACTLY the same now as they did then! But back then mac n cheese was 3 for $1 and tuna 2 for $1 so i could eat a few days cheap. I dont know how any kid out of school can make ends meet today making the same as i did then but paying %300 more for food as well as having to buy computers and cell phones every couple years and health insurance on top all of which we did NOT have to get then. Oh yeah - those same jobs that i worked in the 90s used to have basic health coverage but not any more. This is why so many people are so angry! They saw the banks get bailed out and the military get billions while they are stuck in 1990 and in debt with politicians bought and paid for that try to take away what little they have left. America has a NEGATIVE savings rate! This is unsustainable. It is not single party that did this to us. Thinking in an us against them mindset is exactly what the people reaping the benefits of this trickle up crap want. Divide and conquer. Keep the slaves fighting each other

[@nathanbutcher5263]

@bulletsholes I am well aware of that. Have studied the subject in depth but again, these are the numbers I see EVERY DAY. It is a fact that those jobs pay EXACTLY the same they did in 1992. It is a fact most food costs have doubled and in some cases have trippled where I live. It is a fact that household expenses have not only skyrocketed but that to even ACCESS most services you must have a costly tech product and service with a planned obsolescence of 3 years. Have you tried expaining to a group of people that have not had a cost of living increase in over 20 years that in order to even apply for jobs now you have to have a computer and internet over the months it will take for the application process. Or they can try the library every day if they can afford transport. These are facts. I have to work with these people every day. I talked to a guy yesterday that has had a job at a major chain for ten years, working up to assistant manager. The company hired another assistant manager outside the company and he was shocked to find out that his 'raises' every year still totaled 5000 a year LESS then the new manager was offered. This is cost of living increases? So I checked and the company has a starting wage just 25 cents an hour more than it had 14 years ago and yes, the total allowed raises over time would not add up to new hire management pay for well over ten years. And the managers were not even paid that well! Meanwhile the top positions in the company have averaged almost 10% more pay every year. The vast majority of people in the USA make the same median wage with the same starting income as the early 90s while costs have skyrocketed. While the pay for those at the top continues to rise. These are facts. People see these things happening to them. You can try to hide it with statistics by using flawed data and including groups that don't fit the terms of the problem but in reality it is a growing problem and people are getting angry. I see it every day and try to help my community fight the problem best I can. So are helping or hindering the MAJORITY of your community? What exactly do you gain by denying the facts? I get that many are using flawed models and distorting facts to get rich(er) or gain prestige but what exactly do you get from denying the evidence, quoting distorted claims, gaslighting the public by saying that what they see is not actually happening, or just making reactionary and generally belittling comments on youtube?

[@fidgdet4403]

Theres no such thing as wage slavery. When both employer and employe agree.

[@sharann3482]

fidgdet well if you have diabetes and your jobs pays low wages but covers your expensive insulin costs through Healthcare, you are pretty much chained to that job, given that you can’t find another job in your range with the same benefits or you have to risk to die without insulin So you are kinda enslaved

[@sharann3482]

bulletsholes The State Debts exploded under Reagan after he cut taxes, when before only FDR raised State Debts to invest in the economy witch he did successfully and paid it back with the upcoming Keynesian president’s democrats and republican. Nixon was the last Keynesian, from that point on came Neoclassic’s like Carter and Reagan to Obama and Trump who blow of the State Debts

[@leealexander3507]

I see money in politics as THE issue. Legalized bribery. The average citizen has a less than 1% chance of having any affect at all even in a large group. Spending too much? Stop giving tax breaks to the very wealthy or, better yet, close the loopholes.

[@trippytraveler6773]

I agree, money in politics is the main factor preventing solutions from happening because the money just buys the votes to get its way. There needs to be a citizens pool lobby and beat them at there own game, if everybody donated between $25 and $1000 this lobby could buy the government back for the people......sad it comes to something like that.

[@RmcBlueSky]

@@trippytraveler6773 .. the problem I have is.... Let see .... Tj work @ Walmart. Tj donate to a Union. Walmart lobbying the government. and the Union is lobbying too. Also, to make his $ stretching, TJ shop @ Walmart. Now. In the end who has the $$ to lobby the government? Think this happened way back in the 1800. Workers bought from company grocery and pay rent in company built home. Yeah, the workers didn't feel like they were slave bc they got a paycheck, but if all goes back to the company then really the paycheck is just a voucher.

[@carlosescudero9845]

@@RmcBlueSky this is what trump meant by maga. Make america gilded again!

[@C3yl0]

In McGraw Hill chapter 5 in his 22nd edition he explains how all this works. After reading it I became furious on how irresponsible we have been and how low we have succumbed to continue electing people like this.

[@DrPeter0]

The coal industry is back? What planet is Moore living on?

[@rsr789]

Mars? Cuz he seems to use the same 'reality distortion field' as Elon Musk.

[@JFi96]

Stephen Moore sounds interrupts so much, and keeps blabbing on and on.. Not a lot of substance rather than chatter. Robert Reich is the man here, all substance.

[@cptsky47]

Mr. Moore, in the 80's when Reagan was president he broke the unions. What do you think unions do? I did a reasearch paper while studying at Southwest Texas State University, which indicated wages and benefits were flat for the past 10 years. What has happened when workers are remade into contract workers. You do the research, and every study, including from the Dept. of Labor, show that wages have been stagnant for years. Get real and start with doing some Critical Thinking, as I tell my students.

[@Frank22164]

We had an enormous recession in 2008, a natural consequence of that is a reduction in wages/benefits however wages are now moving up again thanks to more economic liberalization. When you overburden businesses with regulations it kills them off and promotes less competition as only the big players like Amazon can afford the regulatory costs.

[@nescius2]

@@Frank22164 i agree with the less competition as explanation for wage stagnation, but cause of it is oligopoly, you should split the big players to encourage competition.

[@curtiscarlson8958]

Stephen Moore not only came across as flippant but used his humorous interruptions as a means of distracting from the topics and questions being discussed. I found him to be disingenuous not even admitting when his ideas mirrored his opponent but instead using wrote partyline statements and assumed cause and effect to demean and distract. Stephen Moore did very well at interrupting, confusing and dismissing many of the points of not only his opponent but also the moderator as a means of apparently covering up his inability to lucidly advocate for his own policies or through logical deconstruction disprove his opponent's position.

[@jc.1191]

The Heritage Foundation he's from is a misinformation think tank.

[@b.terenceharwick3222]

Robert, I see why it's been 20 to 30 years since you debated this man. Mr. Moore was entirely predictable without an original insight. Mr. Reich is much more interesting when he interacts with his audience. Mr. Dean, it must be hard to find people capable enough to debate Mr. Reich, but as a "debate" this was pretty pathetic.

[@thoroughbred-hp4ms]

REAGAN KILLED THE MIDDLE CLASS

[@trippytraveler6773]

the coal industry is back???? might want to tell the unemployed workers about that

[@lamarspringsoasis4101]

Fuck coal ,what about soalar wind tidal and potential unknown clean energy posibiliitys. All antiquated formes of energy are detremental to life on this planet , is this not a good reason to change the way we think. It is posible to become better. \

[@dorothydjcox707]

Trippy Traveler A coal plant came in here ten years ago. It's been several years since a coal train pulled though town. No more pollution billows up from the plant. Not one coal worker left. It only lasted two or three years. Can't say I'm not glad to see an end to it.

[@danmeyer114]

The problem not just with coal but also with underemployed College graduates is that FAFSA student loans cannot go away even if you are bankrupt and all the other debts have been wiped away.

[@C3yl0]

Exposure to coal mine dust causes various pulmonary diseases, including coal workers' pneumoconiosis (CWP) and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). 2. Coal miners are also exposed to crystalline silica dust, which causes silicosis, COPD, and other diseases.

[@caracrabtree715]

Back up until the 80's companies invested in the workers (whom are also the consumers), their retirement, benefits, and community to avoid being overtaxed. Workers could afford to buy /use goods and services, stocks naturally went up. Not this artificial stock rise from buy backs only profiting a small percentage. Not only is everyone broke, but workers are "contracted", so no or little benefits or retirement, no more unions to leverage rights of the workers, because of the lack of regulations, and greed starting in the 80's we've become predatory capitalism, they changed the business model and laws since the 80's for maximum profits as the ONLY priority, legal bribes, and the legalizing of buybacks, etc..

[@vincentfalsitta5332]

I remember when most workers made a decently sized wage where the Christian churches would ask for donations. and most people had change to put in the basket. our days everyone depends on there loose change so oil guess our churches have to go bankrupt. no money for the poor .nut plenty for the rich people of the world.

[@C3yl0]

Yes it was after the 80’s and all this is due to politics and corporations. They used economics and the markets as a tool to enrich themselves and the money to make sure that the ones that pass those bills to favor them be in positions in government to favor them. I’m my opinion if anyone pays a close look at how things has evolved since slavery we live in one but masquerade.

[@Rammvis]

What Moore doesn't understand that automation is going to wipe out low end jobs and not everyone is equipped to preform highly intellectual jobs. Also trades are evolving so quickly that people will be unable to evolve with them either financially or intellectually.

[@sanigambo4355]

He understands you very well. When it comes to Trump's acolytes, never believe what comes out of their mouths. They believe in the 1% that controls the wage set-up. Simply put they don't believe in middle class.

[@jamesmaxwell4876]

I worry that you are right

[@cptsky47]

Mr. Moore is absolutely wrong about the tax structure on corporation, 40%, is not real. One more time you have not done your due dilligence.

[@ellah6188]

I never thought I would hear the horrendous hot take that is "The 1920s were actually super great"

[@FakingANerve]

Yeah, nothing bad came of that, eh? There seems to be a weird contingent of economists who seem to view bubble periods with rose colored glasses. It's incredible, in a way.

[@trippytraveler6773]

moore: well the budget is 4 trillion so that makes it ok for massive campaign financing....What??

[@ericbray4201]

He's a windbag

[@duracollins]

@@ericbray4201 That's why Trump had him in his administration

[@sk0pe]

A four trillion dollar budget probably needs a significant number of people to administer it properly. Yet the government is too big?

[@K1989L]

It would be great if Mr Moore didn't interrupt all the time when someone else is talking.

[@gmart225]

so refreshing to see a civilized debate

[@rsr789]

Is lying civilized?

[@ellah6188]

"let's have the debate about gay marriage" what exactly are we debating? It's legal and a positive for many citizens, what is there to argue about.

[@romlyn99]

People that are currently recieving a basic income - on average - continue to work and have more freedom - they don't quit work and survive on a basic income. The basic income won't be designed to allow everyone to live without working... it just stops you from falling into poverty.

[@C3yl0]

Exactly! Same as the myth on people on welfare. These people believe that someone on welfare gets a lot of money. No! For example a single individual on welfare gets around $196 in cash the month because if the person gets rental assistance they get deducted around $83.00 from the cash to contribute towards the rent. For food stamps is like $200. That’s it. Do you think that with 196.00 a month a person will have money to even go to movies like many of these people argue?

[@rezasajadiany2663]

One of the best debates I have ever seen. The media should learn how to incorporate beneficial debates into their regimen.

[@JasonAlexzander1q47]

Stop calling it crony capitalism. Call it for what it is. Socialism for the wealthy.

[@patshelby9285]

Socialism is far more equitable than cringy crony capitalism.

[@JasonAlexzander1q47]

@@patshelby9285 nope

[@natchancat9610]

Moore is talking to much and keep cutting reich. Reich keep letting him and not continue his point. Moore is really shown to be partisan (he keeps saying liberal this, liberal that, democrat this, obama that), mostly deflecting and not answering.

[@rsr789]

The Reich Wing has no answers, except of one thinks that Totalitarianism is an answer.

[@brucemyall6139]

Is it a timing issue rather than money? Yes and no...stagnant wages hurts both sides...robert is right...invest in the middle class....gates will surive...amazon besos will survive...golden toilets are not needed for god sakes...share the wealth...open up and share the market...gates/besos..will benefit even more

[@moarschtuff9233]

When asked about money in politics, Moore just starts talking about the size, revenue, and budget of the government as though they are the root of the problem - like is he deliberately avoiding discussing the Congress-Wall Street complex just to stay in their good graces or is literally that ignorant?

[@sanigambo4355]

Don't be naive sir. What do you expect from an advocate of the right.

[@harrybutler7750]

I'm in Australia watching this in 2020

[@theMadhat37]

Stephen Moore was wrong about the TCJA. It did NOT simplify the tax code in any significant way.

[@marcuscrowley6496]

52:00 - in the 1980s China wasn't a manufacturing giant; there was no internet; there was no EU; climate change wasn't a thing. The world has changed since then, Mr Moore!

[@doloresreynolds8145]

Marcus Crowley well, climate change was a thing. All the other stuff is correct.

[@TEY2411]

This guy Moore talks too much. Interrupts and talks over the top of Reich.

[@mikeyoung260]

bulletsholes omg dude no matter how much of a hard on u got for Reich, I don’t think the dude is gay.... your weak minded comments add nothing

[@Silvertestrun]

Ty

[@ptheds100]

Wind is now cheaper than coal...

[@tomdobyns2062]

LFTR is even better.

[@ein99999]

what about storage

[@danofthedead1979]

I don't know much about wind, but I know more about windmills than anyone else

[@thoroughbred-hp4ms]

800 BILLION DOLLARS EVERY YEAR GOES TO THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL MACHINE WHILE WE SIT AT PEACE TIME THANKS TRUMPUTIN.

[@doloresreynolds8145]

thoroughbred 5000 You can call it 'peacetime', but we are still fighting in Afghanistan and in smaller skirmishes around the world.

[@art2736]

And $1.2 Trillion each year to prop up the Stock Market via the Fed.

[@C3yl0]

Yes and I am sure 95% of the American population didn’t vote for that allocation.

[@C3yl0]

@@doloresreynolds8145 we don’t need all that money for “fighting” we need less than that money. Because after that war ends we will have many veterans that will need our care and we can’t provide it cause it was invested in machinery.

[@SuperSpidey313]

*eats popcorn* *thinks* I wanna smack Moore...

[@TEY2411]

TPP violates signatory sovereignty

[@williambunting803]

Its a super simplistic argument to say that cutting taxes delivers stronger economies. Take the Reagan claim (assuming that it is true), Reagan rode a wave of productivity and apparent economic buoyancy driven by the arrival of the XT computer, CNC machinery and the opening of trade with China following the Lima Accord in 1975, full stop. Reagan’s policies where functionally negative to growth as they allowed the siphoning off prosperity that should have been shared more broadly. It is only that the rate of background prosperity was so great that Reagan appeared to be successful. China at that time manufactured product for the US at as little as 5 cents in the retail dollar allowing importers to reap massive profits with in the US with minimal “investment” an no commitment to US workers. Further Moore’s understanding of the energy economy is negligible as I suspect is his knowledge of environment and Global Warming. For the record it was President Carter who initiated wind power subsidies following the first oil crisis with his famous statement “I am declaring war on energy”. The US led wind energy research for decades laying the ground work for the world’s ability to attempt to progress to energy sustainability.

[@NathansHVAC]

Reagan was japan. Japan never stole ip. They copied it on thier own. Reich gave us china.

[@williambunting803]

NathansHVAC Nathan, Japan began its run in the 50’s. I was living in New Guinea in the 50’s when Japan sent ships all around the Pacific to gather up the WW2 scrap metal mountains to build their industry with. Their was a huge amount in Port Moresby, it all went to Japan. In the 70’s, after the Lima Agreement, I people I knew then went to China where they had huge office blocks where business from around China had cubicles so the West could easily do business, a bit like a continuous trade fair, and who came back to Australia with container loads of cheap product. I personally witnessed the progression of this transformation. You are wrong.

[@reidwhitton6248]

Listening to this discussion I can only conclude that Stephen Moore is a hack. The way he praises Trump, and believes this fallacy that the working class is better off because they have more toys is embarrassing. Robert Reich uses humor and sarcasm to insult Moore's ignorance because he deserves it.

[@romlyn99]

Having the desire for everyone to get rich is admirable... but to fail to recognize the current wealth gap and income inequality and the causes of these gaps - is using an admirable desire to justify ignorance. The reason there is a wealth gap is that the system is designed to take money from the bottom and feed it to the top. And the top don't spend that extra money to create more wealth for more people. They keep that wealth and income for themsleves. If you cared then you would do several things - and it is not about taxes. Focusing on taxes is too simple and doesn't deal with the core problems. We need to have new forms of corporations and have rules for corporations that do help rise all boats.

[@jamesmaxwell4876]

I suggest you look at some Thomas Sowell videos and read his book called Economics

[@jmas2312]

Robert is my hero.

[@tomdobyns2062]

What about LFTR ? It would improve the environment, reduce costs of energy, and stop a lot of wars. Only politics is preventing it.

[@doloresreynolds8145]

tom Dobyns Perhaps you should spell out what LFTR is.

[@TEY2411]

Governments have the ability to eliminate unemployment by expanding services and hiring people to implement those services.

[@patshelby9285]

FDR created a model for that. And the Swiss have a couple years civil service build in for each citizen as they reach the age of self sufficiency. I think they get both military and civil service, engineering etc.

[@garystracener8319]

Steven i was young When "Trckle down" Was put to work..... Old and still waiting,

[@johnhill4978]

Donald Trump has not done anything to better this country

[@C3yl0]

Historian and philosopher Yuval Hariri said in one of his discourse that the future of humanity is relevance. Corporations will come up with algorithms and forms to only allow an small segment of the population to become relevant. Emotional intelligence and other disciplines are the ones who will allow us to distinguish ourselves. Now, in my opinion stating that because you chose to study x,y,z many discipline is the reason of that you don’t get a job it is irresponsible. Let’s remember that all these disciplines are necessary in our society. The problem in our people’s ideologies and using economics as a tool to discriminate and exploit. Mr. Moore you can’t have businesses without employees! You can have the best idea and the money to buy the patents and machinery but if you don’t have who operates them you have nothing. Nothing! That is a very arrogant to say!

[@phoenix5054]

"I hope you don't have speech codes here in Berkeley." - Stephen Moore

[@LJStability]

This really hasn't aged well, particularly for Moore

[@ExciteEfect13]

Nobody was complaining when Chinese were weak and producing cheap textile and toys. Now when they started to progress technologically and producing computers and such, now we remembered that they are communist regime.

[@ExciteEfect13]

On taxes, this is bullshit. Tax breaks are designed for the rich which don't need it cose they are richer than ever.

[@DrPeter0]

“Donald Trump is an extremely intelligent person.” Moore is again living in an imaginary world.

[@williamronne699]

As a man that spent 50 yrs building and remodeling homes, In the past 20+ yrs it's been really Hard to find competent carpenters. I learned how by starting in a union where 4 hrs a week for 4 yrs you learn the right,safe and efficient way to build and improve homes. Carpenter unions are rare today and even 20 yr carpenters dont Know even basic skills and safety practices. Because union job sites have oversight from OSHA etc and the local building dept. We are buying and living in houses the have issues, I have fixed many 15 yr old houses because people let their standards be lowered by a market that doesn't care about quality and fare work sites.

[@beachgirl48]

I love how Moore just affirms Reich and my liberal left leanings.

[@jamesmaxwell4876]

No he didn’t

[@donaldedward4951]

Something is wrong with Moore. I want to hear what is good about D Trump. Global warming due to fossil fuels (including coal) is the issue of our time. ''Driverless'' vehicles may become the issue of tomorrow. Something is wrong with Moore.

[@johnhill4978]

Raising as age will cost the nation more money the aging population in general cost of healthcare costs is to high

[@ptheds100]

I should be more clear, that the cost per kwh is different in different areas. Some places it's not cheaper.

[@pilsung2ful]

He criticized a large government and said he was proud of the fact that they introduced the 1st one trillion dollar budget

[@briancuprisin4571]

Well, this turned into the Stephen Moore show pretty damned quick. For all you people lauding these guys for a respectful debate, where I come from respect equates to letting your opponent finish at least one sentence every half an hour or so. Stephen Moore, true to form, is one of the most exasperating, frustrating, obnoxious debaters in the history of the universe. This quickly devolved into Reich and the moderator asking questions every once in a while, then sitting back while Moore goes on a rambling soliloquy about how great Reagan was and how great Trump will be. What a joke.

[@pmfsv]

I personally didnt feel quite the same way, don't think he interrupted to the extent you say but even it he had, the more Moore, the better. He is just plain wrong. I don't think he was right a single time throughout this whole debate and he made sure to let us know. I don't know if he is delusional or just that confortable lying but he said some doozys.. Some of his statements should make any decent, reasonable person's hair stand on end.. This debate definitely didn't age well (for Mr. Moore, that is)

[@nightoftheworld]

41:50 *Ideological paralysis* Reich: “Trickle down doesn’t work, there is no empirical data supporting it” Moore: “There is, it does.”

[@JonesTheSecond]

He didn't say that "Trickle-Down Theory" works.

[@get_downed_boi6270]

well 3 years later and the rate of growth was not +3.5%

[@cptsky47]

Bonus, how about increasing wages and benefits, so people can count on something. Have you looked at corporate profits recently. What are those profits doing? Are they building anything, like high tech factories, in the US, or aree they outsourciing jobs and moving plants overseas, to China where wages are lower, but high tech is booming. I'll tell you what they are doing: paying CEO's huge salaries. The social contract between worker and manager has gone down the tubes, so to speak. Moore blames the Chinese, but it's America that ran to China to get something make on the cheap while shuting down plants in the US, putting workiers out of jobs. One more note: I remember cars made in America, and they were junk. Of course American's would start buying Asian cars. We have not been screwed by Chinsa. It's the big corporation that's been pulling the wool over the eyes of the American public. So, in logic when you use one example of a woman getting a bonus, you have a logical fallacy. See if you can figure that one out.

[@thoroughbred-hp4ms]

COOLIDGE MELLON AND SUPPLY SIDE THEORY OF FAILED CONSERVERTIVE CORPORATE SOCIALISM. 1929 BLACK TUESDAY AND THE GREAT DEPRESSION

[@michaelshepherd6172]

America basically needs to strengthen the welfare state, the coronavirus showed how vulnerable nearly 100 million people in this country are. We are a country that rewards success, which is stupid a person who is successful shouldn't be given a free ride or a hand up. Infastructure is neglected, why improving the driver of economic growth would cause greater economic growth and be a good use of tax dollars.

[@stumpywinkman8204]

On jobs; your government job is picking up litter on a highway, and your home will be prison/jail...wtf?

[@nescius2]

...wtf?

[@Paultimate7]

If 1980 to 1999 were such great years for the middle class, why did they shrink by a huge % and where the fuck is the middle class now? What the hell is he smoking?

[@johnercek]

26:10 - stephen moore asks if anyone would rather have been alive 40 years ago. We had an election about this. People wore red hats. the red hats won.

[@danmeyer114]

29:53 The problem is that Chinese government and companies own assets and patents that are sufficiently complicated that ending trade or declaring a trade war will not work. There are magnets and other materials that we use every day that are owned by international companies that we can't break away from in one fell swoop.

[@TEY2411]

Technology isthe only option left open to mitigate the effects of climate change and the hubris of thinking that our species has the abilty to achieve this is breathtaking.

[@danielgordon9444]

we can strap huge rockets to the moon and push it into the earth. all problems solved forever

[@doloresreynolds8145]

No, a better understanding of how our planet used to tie up carbon and other greenhouse gasses would in some cases take the s back to earlier times. This planet used to have huge amounts of carbon, etc. tied up in the soil after millions of years of animals of all types pooping their brains out. A lot of it was stored in the "permafrost" laters of the Arctic and near Arctic regions. I say permafrost in quotes, because of course it is no longer permanently frozen. A lot of carbon was tied up in the soil of our farming states, left by buffalo, among other things. Our "modern" method of farming with chemicals has burned all of that carbon out of the soils that we farm. The soils are largely inert, lifeless and dusty. The soils could be brought back to health, which would make them a huge carbon storage bank for the future. We have seen the localized but real benefits to planting trees in vegetatively denuded areas, like cities, and in settlements along the edges of deserts. If we always expect technology to save us, we may find we're looking in the wrong direction to find the most effective solutions. Then again, we must look to technology to save us from our addiction to plastics. Reusing them is the only sensible thing to do, yet most plastic refuse worldwide is not reprocessed into anything.

[@sovelar57]

I watch years later. Did trump changed anything related to China and North Korea? NO

[@marcuscrowley6496]

1:07:04 - "It's an experiment" so perhaps the outcome will be like the Kansas experiment: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5SvoHWaoNarpdU

[@gh778jk]

This Stephen Moore fellow seems to have a hard time with plain 'facts'. This is just as useful as debating a zealot about the existence of god, there are no people more blind than those who refuse to see... He also called Trump 'very intelligent' and climate agreements 'crazy'... someone should up his meds Paddy

[@ginawhite4808]

1st of all... Katie was not on Today in 1983. For such a distinct memory, he got an easy detail wrong. Then he kept talking....

[@Hoppensagen]

Moore is right about the culture calling everything racist, but and he has some reasonable points, but the money to businesses that just then buy back stock may benefit a few people who do own stock but a majority of people don't.

[@jamesmartin3968]

Moore is out of touch with reality. I think people can have purpose and dignity without slaving in a jo they do not enjoy.

[@riccardo9383]

Moore is adept of the Shapiro ways of debating, gish galloping, talking multiple bad points in order to distract people from reaching rational conclusions.

[@williambunting803]

Trading a carbon tax with a reduction in business tax is such a stupid proposal. Carbon tax is a cost neutral function to transition the energy industry in the face of environmental disaster from global warming,....warming that is the direct outcome of inefficient use and over use of fossil fuels. Business tax is about businesses covering the costs that make their operation possible, and to compensate their externalities, externalities that degrade the environment in many other ways.

[@NathansHVAC]

Nobody in the history of the world has ever taxed their way to prosperity. Carbon tax has zero chance in a democracy once the pain on the worker starts. you have to rename it to the pay this and you'll become rich tax. Or rename the carbon tax to the pay this or your children will die tax. Then you have to explain how people will die from a Greener planet. Oh yes. The bad weather tax. Or the there will be too many trees and we will have massive forest fires tax.

[@duracollins]

Moore "The Coal industry is back" - NO it's NOT | Moore "How do you tell a guy whos worked in a coal mine he has to learn a new trade?" SIMPLE OFFER FREE EDUCATION, That coal miner doesn't want to go to school because it's going to cost him money he doesn't have

[@82spiders]

Bill Gates may have written BASIC. His genius was selling DOS to IBM without letting his buddies in on the deal. .

[@nescius2]

agree, he was lucky with selling the 86-DOS non-exclusive license to IBM, but he did not write BASIC, it was done by John G. Kemeny and Thomas E. Kurtz.

[@helengarrett6378]

If we require manufacturing to be brought home 1. We'd be more independent. This requires huge regulation and penalties for offshore labor and production. 2. We'd compete better with China if they had to buy American made products or produce their products domestically too. They already produce a lot of their consumer goods domestically and we buy the same goods from them. Take furniture, for example. Most of our domestic furniture was produced domestically but now most of the affordable America furniture is made in China and is shipped here. We have had hugely profitable eras in the past and presently too. But the profit was not translated into a better standard of living for the masses of people. All that profit in the Golden Age went to a teeny elite. In fact, our standard of living in general is slipping every generation.

[@TheModernApe]

The guy on the left did more debating than moderating.

[@FakingANerve]

That might just be because Moore is full of sh... inaccurate statements.

[@helengarrett6378]

If automation is causing loss of jobs the answer is higher pay for less work. If there are so many jobs going unfilled the answer is free education and training. If we have too many low paid jobs and not enough opportunity to advance the obvious answer is that we must have worker owned cooperative businesses. In cooperatively owned businesses all profit goes to workers not to private investors who start out with economic and social advantages.

[@jenns2074]

People who clean your toilets do not get paid shit...... who are you talking about when when you say workers??

[@chip582002]

WEALTH GROWS POWER, GREED AND CORRUPTION AND THAT'S WHAT ITS ABOUT

[@iwill6002]

I don’t like interrupters

[@iwill6002]

This conversation would have been a lot more productive if Moore wasn’t so Political. But then again, politics is in the center of it all, isn’t it?

[@MartinScreeton]

I have no Results and don't expect a dime of results...

[@PeggyJame]

since you are talking about Apple, say how much their employees make

[@PeggyJame]

Bill Gates is a philanthropiist.

[@MartinScreeton]

Peggy, I just got a letter from by Congressman talking about the large tax cut... and he went on and on about this companies employees and that companies employees making $1000 bucks... 10K even... I thought well when companies have ripped off their employees for 40 years they certainly could afford a 10K per employee bonus... Since it's their Own money Not paid to them over the last 40 years.

[@artherladett442]

"...small potatoes!"

[@pianystrom8137]

Go true!

[@thoroughbred-hp4ms]

REAGANS 1981 AND 1986 CORPORATE TAX CUTS A.K.A CORPORATE SOCIALISM INCREASED AUTOMATION NOT HUMAN JOBS

[@NathansHVAC]

Corporate socialism is free money from the collective. Tax cuts are libertarian. It is their own money.

[@nescius2]

automation was supposed to be a good thing, lets automate everything and make it work for everyone.. do it! :)

[@ericclements3797]

Corporate greed is the issue

[@troybody6662]

You would think these guys would have argue this stuff out in front of Trump, so he would have better understood economics.

[@art2736]

Indeed, for each new generation in the OECD’s aggregate average, the middle class is getting smaller, the upper class is stable, and the lower class is expanding. Still, there are differences between countries. The OECD data show that the US middle class has shrunk as a result of both the lower and upper classes expanding, although the latter has grown by almost twice as much. The shrinking of the middle class is a cause for concern, the OECD says, calling for policy responses to support this group. The OECD warns that traditional middle-class jobs are threatened by automation, and it now takes more skills and more earners for a household to make it into the middle class. “The middle class used to be an aspiration. For many generations it meant the assurance of living in a comfortable house and affording a rewarding lifestyle,” the OECD said. “However, there are now signs that this bedrock of our democracies and economic growth is not as stable as in the past.”

[@robkitchen5344]

Lets see.? 1%monopolize economics so they on effect give comsumers a take or leave it situation. And the industries they control also a take it or or starve your skills mean nothing if you cant use them/ ha ha /I'm god .... Situation.... Government respond with regulations and monopoly busting but end results are consumer options. Is name or color but prices are take it or leave it. Gasoline stations prices are equal wherever there are more then 1 located.. 1person. Or a group can can buy stocks to make themselves able to operate as a monopoly... And they do..... But since they have enemy the government who regulated them but didnt do it right... Why give government the chance use wealth and buy it.... What about the citizens who also are comsumers... You thought we would treat them any way differently.. F - U.. Ha ha take it or not. We took it and were not giving it back and were currently going to make it so you can't even if you tried.. Surveillance state .. You thought those are smart phones... Smart for us.. Dumb for the 99% to trust.. Sucker....... Workers under Capitalism Took choices away by monoplizing entire community called company towns so once your employed... your enslaved.. Because they money you will earn working for the owner would pay the owner for the rent of your shack your family was housed and what was left of earnings you buy food at the owners stores so in the end in more cases you would go into debt to the owner..... I suppose if you stayed single and slowly staved to death... You could advoid debt but not death because the working conditions and safety regulations didn't exist.... Finally people can only be exploited for so long.. But in company town since you were in debt.. You couldn't not take it. You had to pay your debt be fore you can leave .... So what choices do you have...... Go to the company cops... Sue in a company court system (guessing. The 1% wants ignorance so 99% can shoot the itself it the foot so it can't kick at it's 1% enemy.. And the (right to work stupid state) this era was probably the worst in America except if in slavery.... We accepted that as legitimate way to run a business or treat other people and see nothing wrong with it.. The oppressed people can respond... 4 way.-#.1 do nothing and hope your oppressor sees what its doing is wrong.... And when you elevate yourself into a position of that type of oppression . Don't count your chickens that "change of heart" have anything to do with freedom.....cuz they taken our political power away ... Outside intervention, military, political and economic pressure can persuade oppressior to choice to liberate but its not a change of heart.. But imposition. And ad we sre with end of slavery, the oppressior, changed the means of oppression and...we left all the rewards the slave owners gained while still having access to those they enslaved and they kept legalizing wrongful harm upon them still to this day... Punishment was not being able to enslave......??? .. No offense to blacks... But if you all had been returned to Africa then we may able to not given just punishment for the crimes committed against you.. None of this is your fault.. It lies on the guilty who have trained generations to today to hate you and in return give it back. #3 when your oppressors are in your community it ends with a civil war and then removed all means for them to oppress because as i mentioned.. Government has stepped more thrn once.. Infact a lot in to regulate oppression that should haven't even started.. Because the oppression onblacks is well known.. And if you dont know... You are a problem 3 when your oppression is from out side.. your community as it was for the American collonies... Armed revolt is your only options When inside.. Civil war Which apparently the struggle of labor vs owners. Is. And the owners 1% is the enemy of the people.. By capturing goverment and denial of it to the 99%.. Is oppression It was labor forced by oppression to begin organizing to fight in the 1st place.. To see unionized labor as anything but good when it only desire has been fair balanced... Your the oppressior or its allie..... All thd evil has come from the 1%.... They force dictatorship of labor.. Making wage compinsation an individual vs them with all the numbers to agree to amount but make sharing with others so you can judge if you did fair or got a bad deal.. The 1% don't bar themselves from sharing between eachother... And its not for you. They will always work to oppress .. Aways.... Everyone working. Enjoys whatever condition do to organized labor.. Go back and recreate what it was like.. Hell.. Take..... ..Nystrom the dress like a rich bitch as my mom would say... After 911 the warehouse industry already destroyed from both mass amount of instant new citizens with Amesty( if they weren't going to pay min wage when u weren't a citizens, they weren't when ykur became o e... They fired you knowing that there would be a rush to the borders encourage by Reagan who inhight is going to go down in history as a very bad person and enemy of labor and organized labor inpaticular since when it was finally was obvious he was bad actor. And got no work. The other actor ... Felt sorry so elected him actors/screen writers and guild president.. Whos only job was to fight fo them and instead which be threw under the '"red scare" .. .. My apologies.. It's 2am im exhausted My whole point being the 1% fkd us ovef and over because of thejr choices to fk us..... China is stealing from us how?? Because 1% fk us and AMERICA... BAIL OUT BECAUSE THE FKING BACKFIRED. THEY FKED UP BY USING TO BUY THEIR OWN STOCK... INSTEAD JOB CREATION.. HA HAHA... ONLY REASON CHINA CAN STEAL IS BECAUSE YOU LET THEM THE... KEYS FRANCE HAS THE ONLY SOLUTION .., AND LOOK AT THEM NOW UNIFIED.... CHOP EVERY ONE OF THEM IN HALF... THE NECK IS BEST..... BECAUSE 1% HASNT LEARN HOW TO ON ITS OWN... INFACT.. WHEN THE NEW DEAL WAS ENACTED BECAUSE TBEY FLAT OUT REFUSED TO HELP WITH THE RECOVERY FROM THEIR CRASH OF IT WHAT DID 1% react to it... Plan an overthrow of the government..... .. They can bring ftactories home and the jobs.. But.. Why.. The France has the Solution still today over 2yrs later

[@litsci1877]

This Moore guy deserves to lose all his money and ID and be dropped off in Times Square to fend for himself.

[@susanperrotte4814]

How can someone who is so wrong and believes in total fantasy still have a job?! Steven Moore has been proven wrong time and time again, watching this video in 2022, he’s been proven wrong again!

[@K1989L]

"I want everyone to be rich" well that's just so naive thing to say.

[@FakingANerve]

Yep. By definition, that is literally impossible. If everyone is rich, than nobody is rich. It's a comparative term.

[@C3yl0]

I think that he tried to imply something else but chose the wrong statement. For example, for you having the comfort to pay your basic needs and have something left to go on a vacation means to be rich. Why? Because you don’t have stress, and don’t suffer things that people that are not able to do it so have. It is different than having more than I already need just because psychologically I have justified myself and created the ways to make believe others that you all don’t deserve and I must be the richest guy on the block no matter if is exploiting or giving you crumbles. When someone try to say we all be rich it means that we all have the resources to provide our needs and wants without exploiting others. Common humans!

[@davidrapalyea7727]

Read either of Peter Zeihans recent books. You will begin to understand how energy independence and replacemen fertillity rates all but guarantees the 21st century is ours.