tayam cedh decktech and statistics 25 % winrate

Tayam is doing quite well in tournaments. Here is a video looking at % cards are played and what kind of winrate different cards choices might have.
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[@chrischris1886]

I think another VERY important thing to keep in mind, ESPECIALLY for the cards with very low include rates, is that just because a deck with a higher win rate INCLUDES a card doesn't mean that card showed up often in those players games. If a player has Thalia in their 32% w/r deck, doesn't mean that Thalia showed up enough to influence their result.

[@cedhtv]

Correct. The sample size like I say is low.

[@T_v_W2]

Love to see this video, I am playing tayam but I have never seen that land that gives +3/+3 and I will definitely include that one

[@barrysetser3909]

Oooh - lunchtime vid to watch! Thanks

[@DovaFandel]

This video is really nice, it gives a lot of insight, even though some of the strangest choices and some of the low-play percentage and high winrate cards are influenced by Tuukka experimenting eith litterally everything. Anyway really nice content. Keep up the good work! 💪👍

[@cedhtv]

Yeah I saw that name a lot among the decks I looked at.

[@DovaFandel]

@@cedhtv Tuukka and Pixel are the Finnish brothers that are pushing the grindstone variant of Tayam that is really active right now. And Tuukka is famous for his "unorthodox" variants 🤣 that he can somehow still make work.

[@caioalp5106]

I think it's important to say that yes Tayam is a really commander centric deck rn, but it does have ways to mitgate that problem. Sylvan Safekeeper can give target protection to Tayam and is used to loop Cradle for a lot of combos. The deck also has a lot of utility lands, one of them being Command Beacon that can put Tayam in hand from the command zone, can be easily recured with Tayam and Hunting Grounds can put Tayam in play from hand. There are also ways to make it uncounterable with Delighted Halfling and Carvern of Souls

[@hip5702]

Yo. The deck I asked for, awesome.

[@cedhtv]

your welcome.

[@mandielyn0416]

I love these videos Mons! I could watch and think about this all day.

[@cedhtv]

Happy to read that. I really like these 2. I do actually think they offer something to. Is there any commander you wish to see next?

[@mandielyn0416]

@@cedhtv Urza

[@mandielyn0416]

@@cedhtv or Atraxa, I don’t think that the correct build for Atraxa has been found yet. I have been working on it for months but i can feel that it’s not right when playing it. I have searched the dark corners of the internet for any breakthroughs but it feels like everyone is in the same boat. I have tested four lists I found online and they all feel that way.

[@jeef16]

tayam is SUCH a hard deck to do this for imo haha. I actually just got my tayam paper cards in this week! there are a few approaches and card slots you can do with tayam just like with sisay, which I'm sure you understand. Tayam is the most unique deck in the meta currently because its approach to stax and interaction is pretty cool. tayam lets you play a lot of uncastable cards because you can play them on instant speed, recycle them, or just grind value. There are a LOT of single card inclusions that make even tayam players wonder "huh, why did they play that card specifically? I wonder where this card performed well for them and how they feel about it?" honestly the cards I'm surprised to not see more of in tayam are spot removal cards, the deck folds really hard to drannith magistrate and any form of graveyard hate, as well as cursed totem (which only tivit plays but still). Also, centaur garden doesn't go infinite with tayam and it doesn't give counters, it just gives +3/+3. If it gave three +1/+1 counters until the end of turn, that would be outstanding. As per thousand year elixir, thats a great card to illustrate the split in tayam builds. it's objectively a great card in tayam - it untaps your mana producing creatures/synergy with natures chosen, and it lets you give haste which is great for chaining tayam activations together in order to grind through your deck looking for something, or it makes all your undying/persist creatures able to combo off at instant speed and not just strangleroot geist. So then why is it a 50/50 split instead of being 80/20 if the card is so good? its because tayam is such a layered deck that some people feel like they need extra layering at one aspect of the deck instead of the other. playstyle, contextual card choices, metagame preparation, all factor into tayam making it a pretty weird, fun, and creative deck. It definitely hits that sweet spot of being able to play a deck without U/R that doesn't make stax boring, can win at instant speed, has a bunch of cool layered combos, utilizes goofy mechanics like giving everything a million tokens of all sorts, AND so many of your cards are 'bad' that no one wants to interact with you, like Gitrog monster. I consider tayam to be the new Gitrog, and you beat tayam in exactly the same way lol

[@ebbandfloatzel]

The infinite was in regards to Devoted Druid+Tayam. Threshold -> give devoted druid +3/+3 until end of turn. Devoted Druid stats are 3/5. make 3 green mana by putting 3 -1/-1 counters to untap it. activate tayam. repeat.

[@jeef16]

@@ebbandfloatzel ah yes that does work, I thought he meant it was a combo with tayam specifically

[@thuperr2017]

this is a deck ive been extremely interested in playing !

[@notasas9882]

I’ve noticed that Tayam is very pilot reliant. If it’s a good pilot, Tayam is very very scary, a bad pilot can sit there and not realize they have win on board multiple times over

[@cedhtv]

this is definatly true. but it is also true for all commanders.

[@zayicza]

This is a really cool commander, gonna play it against my friends on cockatrice for sure 😎🤭, would love to see if survival of the fittest is run in any decks/its stats if you have them handy Mons ✌️🙏 thanks for the vid.

[@cedhtv]

Survival of the Fittest: 20.48% Thats the winrate it has. It is also not in the deck with the highest winrate among all the lists. Strange. I thought it would be better.

[@davidlerner1371]

Hey Mons, I've been loving the recent deep dives into cEDH statistics! I would love to hear your thoughts on a related topic - changes in deck play rates and win rates over time. For example, we can see on edhtop16 that Bruse Thrasios is the 6th most played deck and has a conversion rate of 19.23% (as of today). But that is only looking at the past one year! If we change the tournament date to look at the most recent 6 months, Bruse Thrasios is the 11th most played deck and has a conversion rate of 11.94%. The deck is being played much less and it's winning much less than it was 6-12 months ago. Any thoughts on why this change is happening? What other decks are much more (or less) popular than the start of this year? What other decks are winning much more (or less) than the start of this year? Maybe a question for another video :) Thanks for all the great content!

[@cedhtv]

This is an intreasting topic. I think I have an idea of how I could count and calculat it. I would collect resualts from tournament after tournament. But the big reason I think that bruse thras is dropping is becouse the format is getting faster. Thrasios bruse is more of a midrange deck. and Turbo is currently strong.

[@jean-baptistedelabroise5391]

As a data scientist I love this kind of stuff 😂

[@kortes8914]

A tip: when you show all the "individual cards winrate" at 11:30. Make sure you do this in all these videos and scroll through it slowely once. That allows us to pause the video and check ourselves :D And I agree going through them all would take too long 😂

[@cedhtv]

That is a good idea. Didn't think of it.

[@altered_beast_of_burden]

Hey there Mons what's up man? Thanks for putting this out there, recently have fallen in love with Tayam even though its fallen off a bit since this video, I still have faith and trying to innovate and unlock new avenues to attack the meta. Always interested in making the deck less commander dependent because once people experience the engine a few times they are likely to kill Tayam on sight every game and I've had issues with Gilded Drake and other theft as well. Sylvan Library is one of the most powerful green cards ever printed across multiple formats, yet I see it disappearing from more and more decklist.. not even just Tayam... and it baffles me. The argument here is you're on the turbo mill plan and it's too slow, but I disagree and think it's a great alternative way to put cards back in your hand and it helps you hit you're pieces faster as you dig each turn. I'd like to share some of my most recent changes if that's cool? Orcish Bowmasters- I recently cut Moonglove Extract for Orcish Bowmasters as the damage accomplishes the same thing while giving you get an orc army with it's +1/+1 counter and 2 vigilance counters on them. Enough to feed another Tayam activation! Bowmasters power is prevalent across the format right now and is good pretty much everywhere, but in Tayam it really has a chance to shine with counter play, token play, and having repeated access to it after your opponents waste removal is so invaluable. It's a problem. Scurry Oak- This card puts in an incredible amount of work every game its been a part of! I can't stress this enough. Because you can pluck off the counters on it, the Oak is constantly evolving and making more squirrels with vigilance counters for use in various ways. Its an engine within itself. If you are looking for another wincon, the Scurry Oak also makes infinite Squirrels and counters with another 3 drop; Rosie Cotton of South Lane. Caller of the Claw- This is my new favorite card in Tayam! Ashnod's Altar is one of the greatest cards in the deck being mana production and a free sac outlet, but when you throw Caller of the Claw into the mix it goes bananas.. if you can get the creature death count to 5 for the turn, it will make infinite bear tokens, vigilance counters, and colorless mana with Tayam activations, becoming it's own engine. From there you can go for the win. If you loop it a couple times it even counts its own death triggers for the turn so you can snowball a bit. Just a really fun and compact card and a huge boon for the deck I feel. Samwise Gamgee & Cauldron Familiar- I know what you're going to say... that's not cEDH! And you're probably right, but hear me out... I hate the Witherbloom/Chain of Smog combos in most decklists they just feel gross because the cards are so bad on their own and I like to omit as many cards that don't make sense or serve the decks higher purpose so I was in search of another compact combo that didn't involve such terrible cards with such fragile points of interaction. I eventually stumbled on to the hobbit and cat combo. It's clean, it syphons the table equally like Witherbloom did, and Samwise creating all that food from your Tayam loops and creature spam is actually beneficial being able to recur some pieces to hand and providing you with life buffer for Sylvan Library, Necropotence, and opponent's beats. Granted you need a sacrifice outlet for the combo, but many of your other game actions want those same pieces so you're working towards them anyways. Also if someome stops your Chain of Smog combo it can be more tricky to get back as where Samwise/ Familiar are both easily brought back. Who knows? I'm going to try it out and see if it has potential. Hermit Druid- I see almost nobody on this dude. Maybe I'm too old school, maybe he's too slow, but anytime I can flip my entire library with a single activation of a creature I think that's worth a look. He's fueled 2 very early wins for me so far. Peacekeeper- This card is hilarious against decks attempting to go wide or big, shuts down Tymnas, Najeela, Winota, Yuriko, Godo, Ragavan, genral beats. Keep bringing it back to annoy the shit out of your opponents. The ability to continuously spam stax creatures back onto the board like Opposition Agent, Aven Mindscensor, Dauthi Voidwalker, Drannith Magistrate, Rule of Laws is very strong. Thanks for reading and for the content! Keep doing what you're doing :)

[@crovax1375]

I might be in the minority here, but I think that a lands matters strategy for Tayam is really good. I've had a reasonable amount of success with Gitrog Monster, Squandered Resources, and Second Sunrise loops. Field of the Dead and Path of Discovery can also generate a lot of value

[@cedhtv]

I actually took a look. No one have played the gitrog in a tournament deck. But I am not against the idea. It sounds intreasting.

[@highfivefromryan]

Tayam cannot utilize a "lands matter" strategy because it needs counters on creatures to continue loops. a powerful loop we use in Tayam is having a good amount of creatures with Gaea's Cradle and Sylvan Safekeeper. We tap Cradle for a lot of mana, remove 3 counters, then with the Tayam Activation on the stack, we sacrifice our Gaea's Cradle and we can then bring it back into play untapped with Tayam's activation. Obviously, this gets Tayam a lot of mana, so we're then digging for engine pieces to provide us many counters. Rinse and repeat until we find our win condition. Having a "lands matter" strategy just gets in the way of what Tayam wants to do.

[@crovax1375]

@@highfivefromryan I appreciate the reply, but I stand by my lands matters strategy. The Field of the Dead plan really helps to provide counters for Tayam

[@highfivefromryan]

@@crovax1375 Trust me, I understand where you're trying to go with FotD, but I promise you, it's not a good strategy and here's why: First off, Field of the Dead REQUIRES us to have SEVEN different lands on the board to even give us value. Fastbond isn't legal. So we're now spending mana to ramp with Explore and other cards that DO NOT play to the board in any meaningful way. We are spending our mana resources to add more lands, not put out Stax Pieces to prevent the Thoracle/Breach player from winning on Turn 3 (or sooner). But even if we're in magical Christmans land where we somehow have 7 Lands on the field on Turn 3 and on Turn 4, we also somehow have enough counters for a Tayam Activation. For 3 mana and 3 Counters, you suggest we bring back a land for Field of the Dead. Great, we get a 2/2 zombie with a Vigilance counter. We spent 3 mana and 3 counters to get back 1 land and 1 counter - which is a net negative of 4 resources that Tayam needs to keep looping through the deck to be effective in cEDH. FotD is just a cute strategy that's far to slow in cEDH Tables. It's fine in a casual setting, but that's about it.

[@altered_beast_of_burden]

I actually was struck by this same idea the other day so it's funny you mentioned this! While I don't think it would be as competitive, I do believe there is 100% a space for a land matters Tayam and think it would be cool af. There are several cards that grow creatures with counters per landfall as well as token production. At 3 mana you get Crucible of Worlds and Ramunap Excavator to recur your lands and use your Tayam activations for other cards. The Field of the Dead lines you mentioned, along with the Sylvan Safekeeper/ Gaea's Cradle lines. Squandered Resources & Second Sunrise is sick! I feel like there are other weird land loops like Lake of the Dead/ Urborg. Felidar Retreat while missing at 4 mana, is an insane engine for this type of strategy and turns landfalls into counters and creatures. There are also ways to load up your lands with counters so keep exploring. Would love to see your decklist!

[@wbw911]

if the winrate decreases sharply later on it might be people being overconfident with their skills of this deck but yea I have been looking up to this bad boy ever since spoiler season it does open up to many avenues utilising less common means to progress its game plan be it casual or competitive and teaches you to see things very differently

[@kalhc98]

Nice video! I'm currently building Tayam deck, but I can't get how to do it less commander dependant... Any recommendation?

[@cedhtv]

Sadly none. It is hard to make him less commander dependant.

[@mirkomigliavacca9894]

These videos are very intresting!

[@cedhtv]

I am glad you like them :)

[@Kharsonist]

I play a tayam list and I think veil of summer doesnt see play because 1: Drawing isnt that important and can at times be detrimintal 2: Spot removal is more often the issue rather than counterspells in this list. Finding ways to be reactive through the yard has slightly more consistency in my opinion.

[@cedhtv]

But it do help vs some spot removals to. like the blue and black ones.

[@MasterDecoy1W]

Is the Tyvar that gives haste being used? I could see that as an explanation for for Thousand-Year Elixir falling behind because Tyvar also provides more utility with the self-mill. EDIT: Also, can you post the based chad who was running Champion of Lambholt?

[@cedhtv]

Tyvar, Jubilant Brawler: 24.33% It is played in like all decks. So it gets the same winrate more or less like all decks togheter. Sorry. I don't have the energy to find what deck played Champion of lamholt. I currently don't have a good method of doing that.

[@MasterDecoy1W]

@@cedhtv Ah, I guess that explains why you didn't bring it up. It just seems like an oversight since it probably directly relates to the Elixir question you raised.

[@karneimmortal]

Do you use a program to pull all the data from these lists or do you pore over each list individually? Would love to see one on Atraxa

[@cedhtv]

Atraxa is next. I add all list manuly. Like click on the link manuly and copy decklist manuly.

[@karneimmortal]

@@cedhtv wow that's crazy! I appreciate the amount of work that goes into making these

[@remy333]

Yeahhhhh. Nice.

[@MutilatedBunny]

So for the devoted druid/shield mate. Ive moved away from this combo (not playing tournaments mind you) but because you need multiple of these type of effects to go infinite, where things like rishkar and tyvar enable me to do this already, and they are NEVER dead cards. While druid alone or shield mate alone are DEAD. 14:32

[@cedhtv]

That explains it. I like the move. shield mate is just a dead card. Ther others are better.

[@shanemcdougall209]

druid alone isn't a dead card, it still has value in that it can make mana and 1 counter if needed, so it helps the general gameplan. I agree with the rest though

[@jcjackson9367]

Love this deck, but I think this deck's stats and video may need to be redone. I have not seen alot of those cards in a tayam list lately outside the auto includes. I have it as 1 of my main decks and its a weird list and hard sometimes to really understand what is working and what is not.

[@user-su9co6fv8k]

I really want to know how did you gather the win % Data Did you just look at the number of games and then the number of wins from them? if so that really screws up the win % because of draws in tournaments. If a player wins the first 2 rounds having 100% win rate and then draws the 3 games in a row his win rate would show as 40% in Data. So I would recommend showing all Win % Lose % and Draw %

[@cedhtv]

I can add that in.

[@maxwelldowning6536]

Looking at Ad-nauseum is a good game plan to look at compared to decks that don't run the card.

[@cedhtv]

When I have done like 20 of these or more I will have a lot of data where I can look at cards that are the best among all decks. Then we can have like a top 20 best cards in the format. Kinda I guess.

[@maxwelldowning6536]

@cedhtv I understand that. I'm having a difficult time understanding you. I'm assuming you mean a comparison to all decks in the format. What I meant is between tayam's different builds. I've been playing tayam ever since the beginning of the theory crafting, and I was curious how they all were performing.

[@cedhtv]

oh. I guess I missunderstood you. sorry. You mean how many tayam decks play ad naues?

[@maxwelldowning6536]

@cedhtv I'm assuming with how you're structuring your analysis that would be part of it, yes, but understanding how tayam is performing statistcly between the two gamelans, would bring a lot of value to the tayam community as a whole. This has been an ongoing debate for our community for the past year, and these two builds have won tournaments. getting to know that data would help us. Don't worry, I'm not being terribly clear either.

[@MosherChris93]

I have a question. How does Tayam go infinite with Centaur Garden ? Centaur Garden doesnt give +1 counters. Or am i misunderstanding someting ?

[@cedhtv]

If Devoted druid has +3/+3 you can out 3 -1/-1 counters on it to gain 3 mana. You can now remove those minus counters to activat tayam. Devoted druid being a 3/5 here.

[@TheBDAMaster]

I want to know the stats for Caller of the Claw, Weaponcraft Enthusiast, and Promise of Bunrei.

[@T_v_W2]

What is happening with your right hand? It looks a bit weird in the video

[@cedhtv]

I am using my bad webcam instead of my normall camera. So the green screen got different. I need a new cabel for my camera.

[@robertschweikert285]

Hi, I am interested in how Soul Partition performs.

[@cedhtv]

Rally supprised but it was only played by 1 deck. So can't say anything really. Sample size just to small. I can try and showcase it more in other commander videos in the future.

[@djalmaalmeida4345]

Moons, can you share the file of specific cards?

[@cedhtv]

All the files are on my computer. I have been thinking about how to share this data. So fare my idea is to upload it all on my discord for patreons.

[@jean-baptistedelabroise5391]

I am not sure thalia is that relevant when you have 5 occurrence of rule of law but I am a bit beginner

[@tsuki7064]

24.76 percent win rate, assuming a 4player game, thats worse than luck

[@cedhtv]

Theer are commanders with worse average winrate.

[@T_v_W2]

Are draws calculated as a los for the win rate ? As that would make a big difference

[@johnquin23]

Mono white Heliod, thank you ❤

[@cedhtv]

It is on the list to do. Eventuelly I will get there.

[@johnquin23]

zur the enchanter

[@cedhtv]

Zur only has 9 entrys. A really low amount of tournaments it has enterd into so to say. Saddly. Can't do it.

[@johnquin23]

Kenrith then ^_^@@cedhtv