TBI vs TPI vs Carb 2023 KTM 300XC vs 2021 KTM 300XCW vs 2017 300XC Round 2

Round 2 of TBI vs TPI vs Carb! Back to back ride on my 2023 KTM 300XC with Throttle Body Injection (TBI) vs my 2021 KTM 300XCW Erzberg with Transfer Port Injection (TPI) vs a 2017 KTM 300XC with Keihin carburetor. Riding these bikes back to back really makes the differences between TBI and TPI and Carb stand out.
2021 KTM 300 Erzberg:
The 300 TPI engine on my 2021 KTM 300 Erzberg has smooth linear power that has run perfectly for me from 11F to 95F temperatures. I like oil injection for the gas and go simplicity. The TPI 300 engine has very smooth roll on torque - which some riders complain is too smooth and lacks the stronger more torquey response of a well jetted carburetor. The PDS chassis feels smaller and has quicker steering than the newer linkage chassis on the '23 300XC.
2017 KTM 300XC:
Easy to feel the stronger initial throttle response of the Keihin carb 300XC, especially after jumping off the 300XCW TPI. That meaty low end bark of a well jetted Keihin carb is what some riders feel TPI lacks. The carburetor is such a simple device and this 2017 300XC still runs strong.
2023 KTM 300XC:
The '23 300XC TBI engine is powerful! The low to mid partial throttle roll on torque on the '23 300XC TBI engine feels stronger than the 300XCW TPI engine with a more classic carb like meaty power feel. The 300XC TBI engine feels even stronger than the 300XC carb engine down low. There is also a noticeable difference between Map 1 and Map 2 on the '23 300XC TBI engine. Map 1 is a little smoother response while Map 2 is beast mode with stronger throttle response and is very good for moto tracks. The chassis on the '23 300XC feels firmer and bigger (better ergos for taller riders...I am 6' 2" 190 lbs).
All three of these 300 2-strokes are great engines with broad linear power though the character of each stands out when ridden back to back. The 300 TPI is so silky smooth it feels a little less powerful overall with a smoother roll on power feel. Perhaps better for the off road woods riders. The 300 TBI feels like it makes 3~4 more peak HP and has more meaty and stronger low to mid throttle torque feel and Map 2 is very responsive. Perhaps better for more open style off road and moto riding but I have ridden it on tight slow technical trails and it ran fine. Finally this Keihin carburetor equipped 300XC has strong initial throttle response and runs strong. The all new TBI matches that "carb" feeling with a little more power and refinement and no need for jetting. TBI fuel injection just might be good enough to get a few riders to give up their carburetors and jetting. All are very good engines. Nice to have choices!

[@shaunjones4517]

You deserve so many more subscribers! Keep up the good work!

[@mxengineer1]

Thank you Shaun!

[@JeffKendallWeed]

Great video man! I keep overthinking it all, but it really seems like it'll be fine to grab a low hour, late model TPI XCW/TE. Have you experienced any excessive spooge leaking from the TPS sensors on the TBI?

[@mxengineer1]

No issues with my '20 Erzberg (which my buddy bought and now has about 70 hours use) or my '21 300 Erzberg which has about 25 hours use. No issues with any leakage around TPS sensor but there can be a little oil residue on the right side power valve cover. TPI engines run very clean in my experience - fun bike!

[@elishaandruschenko1730]

love it

[@mxengineer1]

Thanks!

[@mxgryan]

You're doing fantastic work over here. 👏

[@mxengineer1]

Thank you so much 😁 Saw your FC350 Heritage Edition..I bet they look even better in person...makes me want a TX300 Heritage Edition!

[@PezRacer]

Which transmission do you prefer, the xc or xc-w! I’ve owned both and much prefer the xc trans. I’m currently happy on an ‘18 300xc, but man that TBI sure seems nice! Great videos!

[@mxengineer1]

I owned many KTM/Husky 300's with the previous "XC" close ration transmission and preferred it over the previous XC-W. I like the slightly higher 2nd gear of the previous XC transmission as the low XC-W transmission 2nd gear was a little too low and the gap to 3rd to big. I still have this XC-W transmission in my 21 300 Erzberg. The '23 300XC transmission is a little lower(!!) ratios than the XC-W but closer so I have been surprised how well the new ratios work. I like the super low 1st for trials like technical stuff, 3rd is my go to trail gear and 3rd/4th are close and they work perfectly on the moto track.

[@craigsteinman9807]

Overall the the 23 model sounds crisp and chunky. Best of both worlds ..you can hear and see it

[@mxengineer1]

Yes I agree! This new 300 TBI engine sets the bar for 2-strokes

[@ShortyMoto]

Hey man! I’m also in ohio. Ride wayne forest mostly but go all over. Got a 250x right now and been dying to try out these new 300s just can’t make my mind up. Great info, maybe cya out here sometime

[@mxengineer1]

YZ250X? A very cool bike.... kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXyYoJmrgp2kbrc The new '23 300 TBI engines set a new bar for 2-stroke performance... kzbin.info/www/bejne/jH2Yf4OOma2VoMU

[@johnkling3537]

Triple wheelies! Again! 🚀

[@mxengineer1]

You know it!

[@stevedouglas1654]

Your friends 2017 would do great with a Smartcarb. I’ve got one on my 97 YZ285 and she rips. No jets / jetting, just has a metering rod to adjust lean / rich settings on the fly. It automatically adjusts at elevation too. They’re awesome !

[@mxengineer1]

Yes my buddy Greg has ridden many KTM/Husky 300's with both Smartcarb and Lectron carbs and prefers the feel of the Keihin on his KTM 300XC. I like the concept of the Smartcarb and it seems to work great for a lot of riders.

[@thatfast3002]

@@mxengineer1 I love my Keihin on my 19 300xc too it's such a great carb and has beyond proven itself

[@mxengineer1]

@@thatfast3002 Yes the Keihin works great on a 2019 300XC and easy to dial in jetting. Proven and simple!

[@thomasloyd5425]

I love my Smart Carb 2 SC I have it on my 250 SX KTM, and it rips better than my carburetor without a doubt

[@stevedouglas1654]

@@thomasloyd5425 Next best thing to TBI. My next bike is gonna be a Husky TX300 👍

[@bearbeau13]

Apples to oranges. Both the carbed and tpi bikes were W trans bikes. All my xc tpi bikes pulled hard and strong like that in first and 2nd gear. End of the day they're all 300s just one is closed ratio so it's hitting powerband faster. Tune and adjust the power valve on the tpi and it will hit as hard and fast as you like but the new chassis intrigues me for sure.

[@mxengineer1]

Thanks for the feedback! The 2017 KTM 300 carb bike is a XC model with the XC transmission (taller 1st/2nd). The 23 300XC transmission ratios are actually a tick lower and closer than the current XCW ratios. I was a bit concerned while looking at this fact on paper but once I actually rode the new 23 300XC it works great and I actually prefer it over the previous 300XC transmission. The TPI/TBI engine differences are very noticeable when ridden back to back and I have changed the PV setting on this 300 Erzberg. I think James Dean has posted to interesting dyno curves on the TPI vs TBI 300 engines. These new TBI engines are an all new design and the combination of electronic PV and different fuel injection make considerably more HP at peak and offer a new level of partial throttle torque response. No plans to sell my 300 Erzberg TPI as that engine and chassis work great but I have to admit my 23 300XC gets more ride time now;)

[@bearbeau13]

@@mxengineer1 agreed powervalve is adjusting itself. Have you adjusting your valve on the tpi bike? And possibly ecu change? My 22 is a screaming torque monster and I spent 4 hours on a tbi on Wednesday, honestly don't feel power differences, only quicker hit to powerband over stock tpi. Which makes sense now that it's dumping constant mix. Guess it depends on what you like right?

[@mxengineer1]

@@bearbeau13 Yes I am running the PV +1 turn out from factory setting on my 300 Erzberg. I also tested Coober ECU's but found the later KTM maps seems so close I am simply running the updated KTM maps in the stock ECU. Nice you got to spend some time on the 300 TBI and if your 300 TPI is running strong perhaps the difference is not so noticeable? Did you try both the white and green maps on the 300 TBI and if so did you notice any difference? The dyno curves show more power on the 300 TBI but that is WOT on a dyno - not on the trail. 300's are so strong everywhere and I think the TPI with oil injection tends to run a bit cleaner overall. Nice to have choices on TPI with oil injection and mechanical PV or TBI with mixing and electronic PV.

[@bearbeau13]

@@mxengineer1 yes both maps. Definitely quicker hit to powerband. Fuel delivery feels faster for sure and definitely felt quicker than a w bike but with the xc bikes generally its that way with the taller gearing in first and second normally they feel faster. Be nice to see a drag race with a tpi xc and tbi xc with the same weight jockeys because big power doesn't mean power where it's needed. If I'm being honest it reminded me more of the characteristics of the 250 tpi.

[@bearbeau13]

@@mxengineer1 sorry I didn't address the ecu comment. As far as ecu is concerned I have not run anything other than Coober, Aaron has been providing ecu's for my bikes for years and I know ktm and coober work pretty closely together so it's possible that ktm continues to update their mapping for different power advances but my understanding has always been 50 state compliance from factory and if thats the case there's big differences with coober and get.

[@peterwatkins9607]

Have you ever ridden a 300 tpi with the tsp power kit? Seems like people really like what it does to the low end on the tpi bikes.

[@mxengineer1]

I have not ridden any highly modified TPI bikes. I am sure there is more power available. KTM designed the all new 300 engine with throttle body fuel injection and electronically controlled power valve from the start - not simply adding fuel injection to the existing engine with mechanical PV engine (like TPI). So fuel delivery, combustion efficiency, power character, etc can all be optimized based on this all new design. Perhaps that is why this all new 300 TBI engine has such a unique combination of classic 2-stroke bark that has 4-stroke linearity as the throttle is rolled open. Really is a fun and engaging engine.

[@peterwatkins9607]

Thanks for that info and for posting your videos. I just ordered a 2023 Erzberg which I’m sure will be enough power for me, plus gas n go sounds nice too. Look forward to watching your next videos👍

[@mxengineer1]

@@peterwatkins9607 Congratulations on your new Erzberg! I like the silky smooth power and gas and go simplicity of oil injection...Erzberg's are a great bike!

[@GNR325]

Have you seen or heard of any issues with the TBI bikes?

[@mxengineer1]

I've not experienced any issues with my 2'3 KTM 300 TBI or '23 Husky TX300 but have read about issues online. KTM/Husky have released updated maps to address some running issues (mostly too rich).

[@MathewsGuitarWorks]

Does the tbi load up?

[@mxengineer1]

TBI does run generally more like a carb bike and the most likely time to load up is cold starting - need to get moving and build water temperature before really getting on the gas - opposite of the way my 300 TPI bikes ran at start up.