TCS Keep Alives--When Size Matters (124)

Folks are always asking me for smaller stay alives that will fit in tight spaces like small diesel and steam switchers. Unfortunately the selection is still pretty slim and limited by the size of the super capacitors used to store power in these little devices. In this video I'll share with you 2 of the smallest Keep Alives I know of and some tips on where to use them.

[@lesatkins42]

Hi. Enjoyed this very much. I wish KZbin had offered me this first time around, it would have saved yesterday's query. Congratulations, at 46.4k subscribers you must be over the moon.

[@billbeverly2864]

Looking forward to an expanded channel.

[@trapdriver7006]

Looking forward to seeing the changes especially the building of the switching layout. I enjoy watching your videos,they are informative and interesting.👍😁😁😁😁🇬🇧

[@canalsidingsmodelrailway3411]

Hi Larry I am one of those guys in England and I have just subscribed to you following your statement about 'becoming more international'. Here in UK we don't often use TCS, Soundtraxx, or NCE decoders, although I use NCE dcc equipment. We are more familiar with Lenz, ESU, Zimo and some other low cost but good decoders like LaisDCC from China and DCC Concepts from Australia. I will be very interested to see if you can bridge that gap between our Model railroad (railway) cultures. It sounds like a tall order but I wish you well in the venture and I will be watching and hopefully joining in on your journey. ...........................John

[@TheDCCGuy]

John, thanks for the encouragement and if you see opportunities where I can bridge the gap let me know-Larry

[@williambryant5946]

The name change is a good representation of what you have been doing with electronics and the things you want to start adding to your channel. Can't wait to see some layout action from you. Southern Railroad is my favorite railroad and there are not many purely Southern Railroad layouts on youtube. I've seen a couple that are from the merger that include Southern locomotives but are mostly NS. I don't care much for NS. The two predecessors, N&W and Southern; are two of my favorites. I also like the original Norfolk Southern with the gray, red, and black paint scheme. So anyway I'm very eager to see you do some layout work. Great video as always. Stay well. -Wil 👍

[@onkyonky4740]

The changes sound good, the hands on demo stuff that is always good to see other ways to do things, looking forward to seeing how it goes. Onky

[@railbuilderdhd]

I like the changes to include more aspects of the hobby. Keep up the great job you are doing and be sure to keep enjoying it as well. Thanks for the knowledge you share.

[@frankhellman6879]

It all sounds quite interesting. I have to say that you're the best channel I know that carries a lot of well presented DCC & mrr electronics oriented information. So I hope you'll still have a fair sum of new stuff in that vein. The new aspects will be a positive direction for your channel (and I need all the help I can get!). BTW, given what you've probably sunk into audio and video equipment, you could be "Model Railroading with the DCC Guy Productions"! ;) Keep on comin' on.

[@joeraderblackrockcentralrr]

Changes sound great. Looking forward to more learning

[@kennedygauger4680]

Larry, thanks for keeping variety on your channel and investing so much of your time to providing quality in the presentations. I like the new name and am looking forward to the diversity in your topics. Kennedy

[@alanswallow9033]

Keep on keeping on ! Looking forward to the new format.Cheers,Alan from New Zealand

[@dennisedgar3430]

Hi Larry, thank you for the info about your new setup. I am in South Africa and I watch your videos even if they are not necessarily applicable to my system. Dennis

[@donaldkormos5529]

Thanks Larry ... I learn so much from you ...

[@johnmcintosh3626]

Love your work. Looking forward to the changes. (I live in a caravan and have a 2000x600mm HO switching layout on the bunk above my bed). Please keep up the great work!

[@MojaveModelRailroad]

Looking forward to the new changes. I've learned so much from your channel. Thank you.

[@trainguy0]

I am looking forward to the changes. I enjoy the style of model in the UK.

[@peterjhillier7659]

Thanks Larry, Another great Video and really looking forward to the Changes, which I hope are really successful for you and your Channel. Although I live in Britain I model American/Canadian HO Gauge and British 0. Always look forward to your Videos. Thanks for all your excellent Videos and keep safe.

[@paulbarcham1356]

I look forward to your next videos. 😊

[@flyboy2610]

Looking forward to the changes, Larry! I always enjoy hands-on videos. One other thing I may suggest (although this may not go over well with your other subscribers): You may wish to think about just doing one video per week, but maybe make it a bit longer. Doing two videos per week has to be rather grueling, and burn-out is a common issue among KZbin creators. Take care and stay safe!

[@TheDCCGuy]

I agree and that idea was in a segment I ended up cutting for now. While I am still trying to grow the channel I almost need 2 per week just to keep the interest and numbers up. In the past when I have skipped a video due to a holiday or some other reason KZbin interpreted the sudden drop in views as a loss of interest by viewers and immediately stopped promoting my videos which caused views to drop even more, and so on. I am now just digging out of one such hole. The computerized algorithms they use can be very touchy. That happened with the video I did on 5 Great New Products. After it accumulated about 45000 views I let off one Monday and the next thing I knew it was not getting more than a handful of new views a day.

[@joevalentine2048]

Best of luck with your new endeavor to broaden the channel. As a side note I have a Bachmann 2-6-0 steamer which was a balky runner. Ha ring read an article in the NMRA magazine on adding a keep alive I was hesitant to do so because the tender which contained a Soundtraxx sound value decoder would require some minor surgery. However the new KA2 fit in perfectly and the 1-2 seconds of run time was MORE than adequate to keep this little guy moving. It seems as though the dilemma is that the small locomotives need the capacities most have by there nature the least space while the larger diesels need less help have more room. Keep up the great work.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, that’s the dilemma.

[@garylewis3815]

Hi Larry , looking forward to seeing the change of format and following the building of the small switching layout. Will also be watching with interest your topics for UK railway modelling..😃👍🚂

[@TheDCCGuy]

You can keep me honest and let me know if I get some terribly wrong.

[@hythekent]

Fascinating thanks. Good to hear you are a Great Western fan. Looking forward to seeing some of that, even though I’m on the ‘even greater Eastern’ side of England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@TheDCCGuy]

Southern or one of the pre-grouping lines? My other favorite but of course that conflicts with the Southern Railway here so I skipped it. Besides there is a great dearth of locos, coaches, and rolling stock. The Wainright 4-4-0 has me giving it a second look.

[@hythekent]

Model Railroading With The DCC Guy No, not Southern. I’m further east in Dover, Kent, on the White Cliffs. It’s the closest point to France. In the pioneering days the South Eastern and Chatham Railway (SECR) was one company serving this area but there were others. But these days we’re served by ‘South Eastern’. Which launched the new Javelin high speed in 2009. When I was a child it took up to two hours to go from Ashford to London Charing Cross now we do it in 37 minutes! The Wainwright 4-4-0? That’s a coincidence. I’ve got the Dapol offering on pre-order. A beauty, just had to order it! Have you looked at the Hornby Dean Single (Great Western) a pioneer loco with charm.

[@marelz06]

Hi , I'm a subscriber and I very happy for you new turn and hope it will be very interesting and useful like all your videos. The only think is that I'm in the very very minority on your country list, and really like all kind of railroads (US most 90%, UK 5% , 5% Germany and the rest of the world ;) ) and a lot of DIY , construction, scenery and electronics. Thanks for your great videos.

[@anthonywalton4761]

Hi ,As a new subscriber to your channel I was interested in your decision to widen your remit , a very good idea I think, good luck and I shall be watching with interest and catching up with your older vids a I am new to this DCC thing and you seem to be able to explain in words I understand many thanks and keep up the good work from here in the UK.

[@IMRROcom]

The entire thing with keep alives. I do not need 30 seconds, 20 seconds or 5 seconds of runtime, 1 second, 2 seconds for a minor hiccup is all I need

[@TheDCCGuy]

And that’s what you get with the really small ones. However you have to have a minimum voltage to operate the decoder which is why it takes several capacitors at 2.5-3 volts each to provide enough voltage and they take up space.

[@mach37]

In spite of following model railroading since the 1950s, my active MRRing got started when BigBoy passed through my town a little over a year ago. Since then I have been surprised at how much UK model RR activity there is on KZbin - almost as much as the US; quite surprising considering the population difference; and miles of RR track laid in each region.

[@hythekent]

Who knows, perhaps it’s because railways first occurred in England. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@mach37]

@@hythekent - I didn't want to take up too much space, blabbing, but yes, the UK doesn't get enough credit for all their early work on steam and RRs.

[@jamesbraxton6132]

The change will be great. I would suggest that you keep the switching bench work under 6 feet long per section to make it easier to move around.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Actually I am going to split it at 4’. DCC Concepts makes some nice registration pin inserts to use when joining sections to guarantee a perfect match up each time. I now need to get a set from them ASAP. A shop in Scotland offers a range of hardware for joining sections, making drop down legs, etc that I may give a try too.

[@charleswalsh9895]

Great!!

[@45yoji]

Hello I have a doubt how to install tcs KA4 on the ESU LOKSOUND 5 mini 58820 decoder you could teach me would be grateful

[@mjyoakam1]

Hello, have you done a video for adding a KA to a Bachmann sound board for the HO and On30 Shays and Fornys. I have the older ones from Soundtraxx that came with the locomotives.

[@TheDCCGuy]

No, haven’t done those, but the tech support guys at SoundTraxx usually can provide the contacts. Make sure to say its for use with a current keeper!

[@geraldjones2278]

I really appreciate your videos. Compared to some they are very professional. At least when you zoom in. the object is in focus, unlike some videos I tried to watch and your instructions are very clear. It is fun to watch the CC mangle translations but I usually understand what you say. I'd like to know if there is a good way to install DCC with keepalives in some older Proto 2000 E-6,7, and 8s manufactured back in the 90s and still keep a good portion of the weights. I have seen some videos of installations in these units but they remove the weight totally to get enough room.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I have many if those LL E-units and there really is plenty if room if you remove the circuit board at the rear of the model. I will be doing a video on installing sound in them so keep watching.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I have done several of those and need to do a lot more so keep watching for a video on that. There really is a lot of room if you remove the circuit board at the rear of the unit and hardwire everything. That way there is no need to remove the weight.

[@the4000class]

Looking for to the new format!

[@markl3603]

The ESU Power Pack Mini is only slightly larger than the TCS Keep Alives at 15.7 mm x 9.7 mm x 13 mm. Walthers managed to squeeze an ESU Power Pack and a Lokpilot decoder into their HO Plymouth ML-8 switcher which is a very small loco.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, but no sound!

[@markl3603]

@@TheDCCGuy I put the sound decoder and speaker in a hopper car for the Plymouth to pull; the speaker is nearly as long as the loco.

[@tonyl259]

Thank you for yet another extremely informative video. I look forward to the the changes that you propose as you can, as mentioned, widen the range of topics open to you. However, I have one question. When you change your channel name do we have to re subscribe or are we automatically rerouted to said channel by KZbin? Regards Tony, (Wales) UK.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Tony-I assume it is a simple name change. My stats are still at over 7372 subscribers. Do you know Al Reynolds, he’s in Aberdare and is an excellent modeler of the GWR and the Central fo Georgia?

[@frankneher9192]

I'd like to see you get one in a bowser switcher with a factory esu decoader.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Using a non ESU stay alive device with a LokSound or LokPilot decoder violates the warranty and may end up killing the decoder. It is possible to do it but I need to do a video on the details.

[@jillessmits4502]

I fitted a home made stay alive unit to a Bachmann E-Z Command two function decoder. The common positive was not suitable but had to connect to the positive side of the diode bridge. The stay alive function works only one way, and it goes to full speed on a dirty stretch of track. Not sure how to solve this. Is it a programming problem?

[@TheDCCGuy]

It may be that you need to try attaching it to a different location on the bridge. I have generally avoided their decoders as they tend to be failure prone.

[@donaldshroyer8633]

Nice vid. What is the best way to measure capacity of these various sized units? I'm interested in some useful measure to be able to compare what you get in the various sizes.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I have never seen anything on that. You might be able to rig up something that would allow you to charge the unit to a specific voltage and then discharge it using a light bulb of a given voltage and amperage over a measured amount of time. results will likely not be applicable to different decoders since they all have somewhat similar but different designs and the motors and mechanisms are involved as well. So really the best measure is your eyeballs-the bigger and most capacitors, the longer they will last. But, in most cases you don’t need a 20 sec run time, only a couple secs to get you over the dead and dirty spots.

[@donaldshroyer8633]

Given the differences between capacitors and supercapacitors, assuming those terms are correctly used, comparing size alone would be misleading. Someone looking to make a valuable video would compare the actual time each unit lasts against a realistic, base load.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Your idea of a test setup to compare performance is interesting but I think it would simply confirm that bigger is more. That is basically what the techs at the various companies have already told me. The current crop of stay alives use super capacitors not standard capacitors. And generally in a stay alive device there are typically 4-5 of them. The 2.5-3V 1F super caps are all about the same size. So the main differences in commercially available stay alives is the number of super caps and the more you use the bigger they are and longer they will run a decoder. I have no idea what TCS is using in their KA1&2 devices. I took the wrapper off one and it is blank. The devices used in ESU PowerPacks are 1-2 caps of some kind are large and have special circuitry that we think allows them to sacrifice size for run time. Basically they seem to boost the voltage but even the guys at ESU USA say the EE’s in Germany won’t tell them how they work!

[@donaldshroyer8633]

They have vays of making them verk.

[@bobainsworth5057]

Train people are train people. You should have no trouble with the UK, they like learning about trains and they have a good laugh doing it.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Well, I hope I don’t give them too much to laugh at!

[@terryblackman6217]

As I am a Newby I have a question. Are these little units suitable for use with an analogue setup ?

[@TheDCCGuy]

No they will only work with DCC decoders.

[@frankneher9192]

Now most decoders will run on DC so it should work that way

[@terryblackman6217]

@@frankneher9192 Thank you for your reply. I think its worth a try, if it doesn't work then never mind.

[@paulbarcham1356]

Question in my eye the smaller unit have less storage, have you seen any issues?

[@TheDCCGuy]

They definitely have less power but that just means they will only power the decoder a few seconds instead of 15-20 like the really big ones, and you really don’t need that to get over a dirty or dead spot.

[@allenbarnes7202]

Will the new ones work in n-scale locomotives

[@TheDCCGuy]

They should work with any DCC decoder with the exception of LokSound which use the 3 wire stay alive design.

[@allenbarnes7202]

Awesome

[@sparky107107]

can you put two of the small ones together? say if you only have room for one at the front and one in the back, because of space. would it be in series or parallel?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Good question, I have never considered that and never seen anyone ask it or try it to my knowledge. At any rate one should be enough since you really only need to get over the dirty or dead spots.

[@TheDougday]

Why don't you put the top of the switching layout on hinges? It would be easier on you...and faster too! You would be able to show the top and underneath the layout easily. Doug

[@TheDCCGuy]

Actually I plan to set it up on sawhorses at first and rig up some angled uprights so I can just tip it up to get to the underside.

[@ggsumner1947]

You might check Digi-Key for the capacitors. They have some small ones. Just guessing.