TDG: Diplomacy

Got too many friends? I know a way you can quickly lose a few of them! Join Cody as he takes a look at this classic game of intrigue and betrayal from Renegade Game Studios. Will it negotiate its way into your heart on game night? Or will you fail to find support on your tabletop? Let's watch!
BGG: boardgamegeek....
Cody Carlson, PhD: / @codycarlsonph.d.5591
Facebook: / thediscriminatinggamer
Twitter: / codyk76
Galaxy of Games: galaxyof.games/

[@Warriorking.1963]

A punchup over a game of Diplomacy... how unusual! 😂 I absolutely love Diplomacy, it saddens me I currently haven't a copy in my collection, but that is subject to change in the very near future. My record playing this game is nothing great, just two outright wons, but one of the very best games I played was online with a group of my real life friends. One of them wasn't particularly good with computers, and he picked a very weak password to protect his account (his daughter's name). I figured this out very early on, so was able to read all communications that were being exchanged between him and the other players. The fun part was that, while obviously it helped me physically on the board, when I was negotiating with him, I could drop subtle little comments and hints into my messages to him, that I should only have been able to know if his allies were telling me his plans behind his back. He finally asked me if I thought he should attack one of the other players, and I simply said if he thought he was going to be jumped, it was "...always better to get your revenge in first!" The result... Europe exploded!😂 I was the only country not in a real war with anybody, so I just quietly went around picking up poorly defended supply centres, purely so my units could support my "allies" obviously, all the while continuing to stir the pot my "hacking" had managed to get to boil over. Finally one massive stab on Germany, and I was suddenly in Berlin, sitting on eighteen supply centres and Emperor of Europe! 👑 I'm so glad you reviewed this wonderful/evil game and that you give it the praise it so richly deserves. Just out of curiosoty, have you read the book: The Game of Diplomacy by Richard Sharp? If you haven't and should ever get the chance, I guarantee you'll enjoy it.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

@@Warriorking.1963 Thanks for sharing this. I haven’t read that book - perhaps I’ll look into it.

[@Warriorking.1963]

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer You can read it for free (along with loads of other articles, at the UK Diplomacy Archive.

[@don6538]

Dippy story #1. Played in summertime, early 70s. Got 7 people together at my house to play, my longtime buddy bringing a copy of the game. Set up in the dining room table. None of us really did much on the first turn except write orders after talking at the table. Turn two saw a few off-table conferences. The set we played with had some maps printed on index cardstock so players could take one to a 'conference'. Turn three was chaotic, including a lot of separate conferences and no one knew who was going to write what orders. Turn 4 was majestic, as ad hoc conferences were going on for what seemed like forever. At some point I went into the downstairs bathroom, and two of the players were in there whispering over a diplomacy map. Which was nothing compared to two of the guys in the kitchen making plans, with two more outside at the kitchen window. They were 'discovered' spying by someone else and hilarity ensued. So the day went along until it was time for food. Some of the people had had enough, so we declared peace and went to eat. While we all had a good time, a few people were mad at others, and it seemed to fester. The bad blood was resumed the next time we played a game, which happened to be Risk, and it turned into a revenge game. Things got back to normal then. But a couple of us decided to never play this game again, out of concern for friendships. Dippy story #2. circa 1980. I did not attend this one (or any more Dippy games for that matter), but the results were tragic. End results were 2 broken marriages, some broken friendships, and two dis-armed camps of people taking sides and never got together with the others again. Don't have details other than a couple breaking up because of an in-game betrayal, which was the lit fuse on a powder keg that started it all. Dippy story #3. Turns out that by the late nineties, someone had gotten a copy of the Game of Thrones. Which was recommended to everyone, and more copies were purchased while the original book got passed around. The resulting word of mouth was amazing, and anyone who couldn't wait for a copy went out and got one. Fast forward to when Fantasy Flight Games picked up the rights to make a game based on the books. The game system they used was based on Diplomacy rules, but used influence tokens which were placed for offices and things, and then resolved. Then there was an action phase where people put action tokens face-down and were NOT simultaneously revealed, but one token at a time, each player revealed one in turn order (which had been determined, among other things, by the influence phase), and executed. which meant that some actions might not get resolved due to changing circumstances. And there are character cards that could effect combat situations and/or the results of some combats. And much more. Anyway, I mention this game as a much more friendly substitute than playing Diplomacy, even though there are great similarities due to the actions being committed, but being sequenced in a set order. Want to go first? Simultaneous commit hidden influence during the influence phase when that topic comes up. Goes without saying that all committed influence tokens are gone. Next topic to bid on? Et cetera. Fascinating variation on the game system. Highly recommended.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Great stories. Thanks.

[@seanobrien798]

The last time I play Diplomacy I was in college (early 90s). I remember it well. I was the Ottoman Empire (didn't do well). France won due to some well-timed backstabbing. Russia was close but lost. A table got flipped and "unkind" words were said between several players after the game. I am not sure what was more fun, the game or the "war" afterward. Everyone was friends again in a couple days.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Good times.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Glad to see you covering this game. It's about stabbin' time! I'm always torn about using this game with students. Such a great game - but only with the right people. Often, you don't find out who the right people are until the game is over. But it won't stop me from trying.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Indeed. My students loved it. Great fun.

[@dryfesands1367]

In my opinion the greatest "experience" board game you can have. With the right people you will never, ever, play a better game. It has everything. Simple to explain with bottomless depth. Historical weight. Intigue. Tension. Hope. Despair. Tactical skill. Strategic concerns. Negotiation. Secret intentions. It is wonderful. It genuinely is an education about politics, war, aggression, alliance and history. It's more than a game . . . It is also utterly cruel. Very unbalanced (good luck Austria and Italy, because you'll need it). It *only* really plays with 7. It can also go on forever. If everyone goes in accepting those flaws . . . Nothing else like it. Once you know, you know.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

I think you can have a good game with six, but no less. Agreed - this is a fantastic game.

[@KabukiKid]

Some of my most memorable gaming experiences have been from Diplomacy games. I haven't played it in ages, but I can remember tons of great moments. The closest we ever had to a "friend-killer" moment was when most of us in mainland Europe wouldn't let England get into continental Europe. After a couple turns of thwarting his landing attempts, he (my friend playing England) sort of freaked out, cursed us all out, gave us the finger and stormed out of the house. lol It was all good the next day, but in that moment, he was steamed! lol Needless to day, he never wanted to join our Diplomacy games again after that. ;-)

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Ha! Great story.

[@alexisxiros8168]

My 3 all time favourites are: Chess, Risk, Diplomacy. Thank you for the review of this classic boardgame. By the way: A Ber - War is a misorder. Only A Ber - Sil or A Ber - Pru etc. is possible.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Fantastic. Thanks.

[@TheFinalFrontiersmen]

I'd love to hear more about how you implement the game in your classroom. I'm a few months away from potentially starting a game in my school as part of an elective course. It's a bit different from your class as the students I'm working with will be English course students in a Japanese high school and the focus of the elective is communication, not a civics class. The current term's focus is on debate, which many of the students are already proficient at since most of the debate club members are in this group. However, in the fall term I proposed we move on towards persuasive speech. And I suggested we create teams and use Diplomacy as the practical implementation to exercise the various skills involved in being persuasive. There's a bit more to it but this is also going to be the first attempt at this project so I'd be very happy to hear your experiences and how you used it successfully in your classes. Thanks for the great review as always!

[@normstewart546]

I played this a lot in High School - the late '60s.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Great game!

[@monomundo]

This is one of my favorite games as well… but so difficult to bring to the table.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

It can be, for sure.

[@jackdancer7448]

My favorite Diplomacy story was from about 40 years ago when a bunch of us played every Saturday night in the University of Washington Union building. Always looking for new players, one night we added one and explained the rules. Things seem to be going well until the reading of the first (Spring 1901) moves. The new guy seemed to be getting visibly upset as the moves were read off the slips of paper. And even before the moves were all adjudicated he stood up and shouted, "I hate it when people lie to me!!!" Then he picked up his chair and sent it spinning across the floor and stomped out. We decided that Diplomacy might not be the best board game for him…

[@CaptainFritz28]

Even just playing online, one finds out quite quickly that there are many whose reactions to a stab are... not the best.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Ha! Gret story.

[@thegamesninja3119]

Word is that Cody tried to solo Diplomacy, and was bored, so he knifed himself in the back. The kniffing himself in back was independent of the boredom. 🥷

[@thegamesninja3119]

Saying someone hates lying to you when playing Diplomacy is like saying someone hates when someone rolls doubles while playing Backgammon.

[@eriksjogren800]

Thanks

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Thank you!

[@CaptainFritz28]

Oh boy, here we go... Quite possibly the greatest (and simultaneously worst) board game of all time! (My favorite way to play the game is with the metal pieces from the 1999 version and the map from the newest version.)

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

I never had those metal pieces. My older edition was wood.

[@KSweeney36]

I would love to play this someday, but will never have the player count

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

I hope you get a chance.

[@adriang6259]

I saw this on sale at a shop where sales seldom go. And I came here wondering whether it would be worth while. I have two versions of “Axis and Allies” and a copy of “Game of Thrones”. How would this beat either of those to the table? (Nb, haven’t gotten the hang of “Axis and Allies” yet) But I do love this type of game.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

A Game of Thrones borrowed heavily from this design. It's a little less complicated than AGOT, but very deep strategy.

[@adriang6259]

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer thanks

[@seanhillman1016]

I discovered Diplomacy in 7th grade in our Strategy Games club.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Great game.

[@johnf285]

Any significant difference between this edition and the previous one?

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Just components. I don’t believe there are any significant rules differences.

[@dr3putt62]

Played it in the 70s and 80s😊

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

It’s been around forever!

[@angioman64]

This brought back some awful teenage memories for me. I was the youngest in my friendship group and was always ganged up on. So I hate this game with a passion - it can really bring the worst out of some people.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Indeed. But it's so much fun.

[@pamelagore5084]

Cody - Any advice on how to find game partners? I move a lot and have never found a good way to find people to game with in each new location.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

I’m still wrestling with that problem myself.

[@KevinBalch-dt8ot]

I think you can play online.

[@mindbomb9341]

I have never understood what the deal is about this game.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Have you played it?

[@KabukiKid]

Yeah, you really have to have played it to sort of "get it." heh It may not be a game for you, in the end, but you'll understand better after a game.

[@don6538]

Cody, I liked your scally cap look much better.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Many people did.

[@Drewkas0]

The stories I hear from this game are always so fascinating. My group would absolutely hate it! :P

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Ha! It's not for everybody, for sure.