TDG: On To Moscow Solitaire

[@bobdole8830]

Finally a WW2 game where you play the underdog ;)

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Ha!

[@MrElliptific]

Good final point

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Thanks.

[@JimmyMcBimmy]

Exceptional point at the end. I'll add some food for thought: Add to that the estimated death toll of 50 million for the British Empire (plenty of solid sources on that figure, like RJ Rummel). Just in the period covered by the game, alone, the Bengali Famine that Churchill is almost exclusively responsible for killed up to 3 million people. There are no "good guys" when empires are involved. But it's less politically convenient to point this out when it comes to our own side.

[@robertmoffitt1336]

Hey wait a minute... that beard... I've seen it somewhere before... 🤔 I just recently listened to an audiobook about WWII, I can't recall the author offhand, but recounted WWII mainly in Europe, and it chronicled the military events side by side with the German atrocities. It was very sobering and really put in perspective the bigger picture that was going on behind all the military events.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

I'd be interested to hear what book it is. Thanks.

[@robertmoffitt1336]

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer I think it was Antony Beevors history of WWII. I was using my wife's Amazon account on Audible until about a week ago, when I decided to just sign up for myself due to password issues. I had 70 audiobooks complete but I can't get back in to hers to check what WWII complete history was my last one complete.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

@@robertmoffitt1336 I read that book last year. Very well done. I would also recommend you check out Andrew Robert's "The Storm of War" for another great sweeping narrative history of WWII.

[@robertmoffitt1336]

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer Actually, I think it was the Second World War: A Complete History by Martin Gilbert. I'm pretty sure that was the one. I liked Antony Beevors book, and I remember it set me off on a string of books by him on Audible. One on the Battle of the Bulge, one on D-Day, one on Stalingrad, and I think one other book by him and they were all good. That one by Martin Gilbert I think was the one where they basically followed along the military events but at the same time were talking about the Holocaust events and what was going on there, while the military events were taking place. It was a different book for me because it was just not focused on the military events, and it was a complete eye opener. Oh, the other book by Antony Beevor was one about the Battle of Crete. Lol, I got on Audible through my wife's Amazon account, but she doesn't do Audible, so I always had trouble with the password. Recently she changed it and then couldn't remember what it was so I just started my own audible account! LOL! 😄 So I wound up having to repurchase volume two and three of Shelby Footes Civil War trilogy, and I lost my history of 70 books that I'd already listened to. I'm on book two of Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy right now. So when I want to reference one of them I can't get back in to see the list. Lol! Oh, I'm going to have to repurchase Fierce Valor too, which is about Ronald Spears from The Band of Brothers series. I had that purchased and lined up ready to go to, oh well. On Audible, I've been buying credits in blocks of three and then trying to purchase books that are 20 hours or more in length to get my money's worth! Lol! I'll have to put that book you mentioned on my wish list, which is audibles version of the "On Deck" circle! Now I have to go back and get the password for my old audible account because I think I may have already listened to the Storm of War! Ah, got the old password straightened out and no I have not read that one so I will put it on my wish list on that account too! And yes the book I was referring to originally was the one by Martin Gilbert, a Complete History of World War II

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

@@robertmoffitt1336 I've read Gilbert's WWI, but not his WWI. His bio of Churchill was also excellent.

[@inwyrdn3691]

I completely agree with the bitter taste when playing as Germany (or Japan - they were certainly no better) in World War 2 games, though, as you implied, I don't think I will get to the point of flat-out refusal. Now if you really want to feel like a horrible person, go play Barbarossa or El Alamein, the anime deck-building games...or don't. Probably best to stick with don't. They're really fun, though!

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

I played Barbarossa. ‘Nuff said.

[@allenatkins2263]

Discriminating Gamer, it's all pun and games.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Indeed.

[@dhmcarver]

I was glad to hear your caveat about playing the Nazis in a war game. I think we would all do well to keep such matters in mind. I feel similarly about the Soviets, so this game of Nazis against Soviets would probably be a bridge too far for me, so to speak. Thanks, as always, for your reviews and perspectives!

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Thanks!

[@KChiefs4]

It’s just a game you are not actually committing and war crimes

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

@@KChiefs4 Thanks for letting me know. For a second there I thought I was going to Nuremberg.

[@KChiefs4]

@@TheDiscriminatingGamer Lmao

[@Ad3tr]

Good to hear you’re taking games with the Nazis seriously more and more. I still want to get that book you suggested last time. I have no issue playing these games but I am not a fan of the people who put iron cross avatars on their profiles, and I remember when I was in school people really did emphasize that they thought the eastern front was a wash between two equally bad sides. Oof.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

Thanks.

[@kaimada.s]

For example, i think not that widespread events in US knowledge: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD_prisoner_massacres en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939%E2%80%931946) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre In that case i think the most "hostoricaly awful" wargame wouldnt be any considering Barbarossa, but Soviet Dawn. And remember that in 1939-1941 Soviets and Germans were allies. Stronger than Germans and Italians and Japanese.

[@Ad3tr]

@@kaimada.s Sigh. No one is saying that this is just fine and okay; just as they wouldn't say that 3 million people dying in a partly man made famine in Bengal was fine for Britain. They're saying you cannot compare it to the Holocaust. Even the repressions of Poland, which are war crimes, are not the same as the German General Government, which was exterminationist. Also I was taught all of these in school, my state requires it, even as a smaller child we read anti communist books in class.

[@kaimada.s]

@A read about Polish Operation of NKVD, then come back and say that USSR was not exterminationist...

[@Ad3tr]

@@kaimada.s I have, in detail. Please research the german occupation.

[@lastburning]

There's a clear, shared understanding that Nazis were bad. People who don't agree with this are more or less socially ostracized. The same is not true with Soviets despite them committing many atrocities and even allying with the Nazis (The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact). Ask Eastern Europeans what they think of Russia. My point being, that I can't see Russia as the good guys and such framing bothers me.

[@TheDiscriminatingGamer]

There's no shortage of Eastern Front games. I think one can play and enjoy them without inherently vesting one side or the other with the idea of being "good guys."

[@JimmyMcBimmy]

Add to that the estimated death toll of 50 million for the British Empire (plenty of solid sources on that figure, like RJ Rummel). Just in the period covered by the game, alone, the Bengali Famine that Churchill is almost exclusively responsible for killed up to 3 million people. There are no "good guys" when empires are involved. But it's less politically convenient to point this out when it comes to our own side.