TDI Buyback Replacement Ideas (Part 1) [DIESEL REVIEW]

[@the.wanginator]

I went the opposite direction, picked up a pre-owned S4. Couldn't be happier.

[@DieselDrives]

+Curlen M Congrats! You're going to enjoy all that power and torque, which is the wise choice. Unfortunately, I don't cover the used car market.

[@bosse641]

VW Alltrack is my first choice.

[@SoundgardenMan]

John Grytbakk Yeah man that thing looks awesome and capable.

[@andrewnprice]

It is also really expensive, and the reliability of MQB VW cars is not looking that great right now. Maybe wait a while and see how that pans out before buying into a vehicle with questionable maintenance costs so you can see how they fair. Alternatively a used Allroad is an option, but is more dated in terms of its electronics.

[@rickl6099]

If you are coming from a Golf, in 2018 you should be able to buy a Cruz diesel hatchback. When I sell my Sportwagen in September 2018, I will certainly give it a good look.

[@DieselDrives]

+Rick L But it's not here. So it doesn't exist. I can't possibly show one and nobody can have one. When it gets here, I can talk about it.

[@andrewnprice]

He does have a point, you also don't know how all of this might negatively impact the diesel market and if that car will make it here on time.

[@ram64man]

In my experience with the BMW engine it's very fuel efficient yet was a little lumpy at low, other recommendations are the rover evoque 2.0 diesel with the 9 speed auto is a better car for family's than the xe, in the same price bracket for users who do less than 200 miles a day may want to look at the bolt as there day runner, the mini for golf owners will find it to small so the good news is the Mini Countryman is just as big and uses Renaults 3 cylinder diesel and the v2 ver was announced this morning,

[@DieselDrives]

+ram64man We get the XE and F-pace diesels here and they are the 20d. The F-pace will be included in part 2.

[@DieselDrives]

+ram64man We get the XE and F-pace diesels here and they are the 20d. The F-pace will be included in part 2.

[@SoundgardenMan]

Goddamn do I want a coffee now though...

[@samabd8220]

jag looks great and I test drove 2014 BMW diesel when I was shopping for diesels. I paid 30k no interest for my passat SE the passat had a huge trunk and it was a lot roomier than the beemer. the Beemer had better infotainment system and just felt more sporty. I did hear that the Beemer diesel wasn't that great as far as reliability. so I pulled the trigger on the tdi. either easy I would have not gone over 35 k respectively. I am not going to look at the jag it's expensive and it's not even out so we know what's wrong with it. here is what I am considering at the moment 1 Chevy/Gmc colorado/canyon diesel 2 Chevy Cruz diesel 3 dodge charger rt 4 ford Ranger diesel ( heard it's coming out in 2017) the other thing that really bothers me is that vw didn't come up with a new diesel engine. you fall banged your knees. now get up and move on. the idea of no even considering it is stupid. that's why I am not going to invest money on vw.

[@DieselDrives]

+sam abd EPA is cock blocking all new diesels. Mercedes gave up on the C-class diesel, and they have been talking about it since 2008. It never happened. That's why you should not hold out for a Cruze diesel or a Ford diesel, since they aren't here. The Jaguar and BMW are all that's left, and you're not doing yourself a favor by thinking you need something as large as a Passat. As for BMW diesel reliability, at least they are legal...

[@andrewnprice]

Also worth noting, BMW is currently dealing with a glut of pre-owned inventory and lagging sales on new cars. You could easily find a Certified used BMW 328D like the one you were looking at back then for under 30k, or you could even get a 535D if you need the extra space with around 30,000 miles on it for 30-35k. I will not say that BMW reliability is amazing, but if you got a CPO vehicle that helps to assuage that issue some since you get the longer warranty. (Of course that somewhat depends on how much you drive, and if the mileage is going to become an issue.) Also bear in mind that BMW reliability is actually predicted to be better than VW's based on Consumer Reports data. When I was searching for a used Audi A6 one of the sellers I was looking at buying from bought a used 535D to replace their 2012 A6 with, and they have had it for about 4 months now with no issues and have used it for a number of longer road trips.

[@samabd8220]

Andrew Price I drive a lot I already put 40k on the passat tdi so that might be an option

[@andrewnprice]

sam abd Well I more meant just do some calculations on how many miles you drive and determine if the CPO warranty would cover you the whole time you own the vehicle. Total coverage on a CPO is 6 years/100,000 miles, so if you buy a 2014 car with 30,000 miles, you would have 4 years/70k left. Depending on if your driving habits fluctuate a bit, that might cover you. Regardless, that would give you 2-3 years of warrantied time in the car to see what maintenance and cost of ownership are like so you can determine if it is something you want to keep more long term. Audi is a more reliable option. I bought a 2014 A6 TDI Prestige as a replacement for my Golf TDI and I like it so far. However, there is uncertainty about how the 3.0L diesels are going to be handled, and Audi will not offer an extended warranty on them anymore. You can sometimes find them used through private sellers with a CPO warranty attached (same as BMW 6 years\100k), but those are hard to find. You could always just get the 3.0T A6 though, and those you can get for 35k with taxes. I nearly bought a well optioned 2014 A6 3.0T in Florida with 45k miles, CPO with warranty through September 2019, a service plan that covered next two scheduled maintenance appointments (Audi is currently offering that as an incentive on the A6, basically saves you 1-1.5k depending on what interval the car is at) for 35k out the door. I decided against it because I prefer the diesel fuel economy, self-lubricating fuel system, and trust the robust nature of TDIs more (though that 3.0T is supposed to be good, I just have never owned one before) but it may have been the better deal given all that came with it and it was lower mileage. However, it is going to cost you more to run in terms of fuel.

[@26point2madness]

So, tell me what you think. I just got a quote from my local VW dealer for a 2017 GTI Sport w/DSG for $4,850 under MSRP. MRSP is $30,150 and quote is $25,299. Very tempting. I may be wrong, but I find it hard to imagine it could get much lower than that in the future.

[@DieselDrives]

+adamar 26.2madness Tempting

[@DieselDrives]

+adamar 26.2madness My only advice is this: I believe there are two types of buyers. Those who buy the car, and those who buy the deal.

[@26point2madness]

Buyback appointment set for Dec. 29th. 1 and a half months to figure out what to get.

[@26point2madness]

I am now the owner of a new 2017 VW GTI Sport trim w/DSG. It was even cheaper than I expected. Paid $24,400 (plus tax/license). The MSRP is $30,315. I never really had any ill-will toward VW, but even if I did, this deal along with the buyback has given VW total redemption IMO. I loved my TDI, but I am way ahead with this deal.

[@DieselDrives]

+adamar 26.2madness Great move and excellent point. Many people think its over for VW but when you are in the market today for a new car, VW offers models you just can't pass up or beat. Enjoy your new ride!

[@coorsleftfield]

Honestly if the TDI was still being sold , I'd probably still select the 1.8tsi for $4000 less. Quicker than my TDI and the mpg is close enough that it wouldn't be worth the TDI premium.

[@DieselDrives]

We know why the 1.8tsi exists. Back when TDI sales took off, the option was a 2.5L 5-cylinder. Now we also have the option of a 1.4L 4-cylinder, and those tiny engines are under fire for producing too much particulate matter - but we don't call that a "gross polluter."

[@coorsleftfield]

Diesel Review I test drove a 2017 Sportwagon with the 1.8 and that motor seemed excellent. With diesel typically being about 20c more a gallon around here I would be an easy decision for me.

[@andrewnprice]

I have driven the newer 1.8TSI as well and I will agree it is not as bad motor. That said I personally found it kind of underwhelming in terms of how it delivers torque off the line. It just does not have the same low-end pull as the TDIs. That is not to say it is a not a nice car, just different. That said, my Mom and I have MK6 versions of the TDI. She has a 2013 Sportwagen and I have a 2011 Golf, and because the Mk6 was really a Mk5.5 and shared so much with the previous generation of vehicles: VW had already worked out a lot of bugs out of the cars. The cars based on the MQB platform don't have that same benefit, and their reliability has really suffered as a result. I was going to have my Mom get a Mk7 Golf Sportwagen to replace her TDI Sportwagen like you are talking about, but after seeing Consumer Reports latest reliability data released this last week I think I have decided she would be better off getting a used Audi instead. I am not saying that you are wrong to want a new Sportwagen, but just look into the reliability of those before you make a purchasing decision and maybe look at something like a Subaru, Audi, or one of DR's suggestions (the Audi A3 kind of suffers from the same issue as the VWs, and Jaguars have their own woes in terms of reliability though) for what to buy if you plan on keeping it past when its warranty runs out. Not trying to any way denigrate your choice, but just trying to help; as I completely understand where you are coming from.

[@coorsleftfield]

I'm thinking about just driving the TDI until the last possible moment of the buyback when better options will be available. Possibly get a Tesla model 3.

[@SoundgardenMan]

Brian Weaver I'm right there with you on that. I'm doing the same thing.

[@coorsleftfield]

Yep.. Since the Tesla is a ways out, may even lease a Chevy Bolt first and see if I can live with EV.

[@andrewnprice]

Beware of Tesla reliability, especially on first year cars that they are cost cutting on. Also you only have two years I think to sign up, and you will need to watch your mileage to avoid falling out of your pricing bracket since your car's value is greatly dependent on that. That two year thing may become an issue if they push back production any; especially since so many of the cars are already pre-sold. Leasing a Bolt or Volt might be a reasonable idea, but the Volt has issues with its onboard gasoline engine.

[@DieselDrives]

Or, your TDI can get totaled in an accident at any time in those two years. Then you'd be up a river.

[@26point2madness]

If your car gets totaled, you still get the $5,100 to $10,000 compensation. You would just get the insurance proceeds instead of the buyout. The big question is what is the difference between the insurance proceeds and the buyout. Probably at least a few thousand dollars.

[@andrewnprice]

I won't disagree with you on the Jaguar being very attractive, but the deprecation and unknown maintenance costs (assuming you keep it past its warranty) make it a kind of daunting value proposition; which is part of the reason for paying more to get the slower diesel powered option; which means you are buying it for the fuel savings. Now maybe Jag's diesels will not have as many issues since it is more of their bread and butter worldwide engine, but BMW is currently ranked above Honda (admittedly we will have to wait and see how they hold up, but the same is true of the Jag) in brand reliability and well above VW and the 3 platform (while it has its issues) is more mature and should be easier to get parts for and fix. Still an interesting and somewhat unexpected suggestion that has its merits.

[@DieselDrives]

Well, I sure as hell won't suggest everyone go out and get a $31k Malibu Hybrid. Your new car will cost more than your TDI. There's no way to avoid that, so you might as well do it right.

[@andrewnprice]

Diesel Review Fair enough, but if I am going to pay a price premium for an engine and I am looking for performance and not so worried about value I would get the 6 cylinder instead. You are only paying $3000 for that power, and while it will cost you more for fuel you don't really buy a Jaguar to be economical in the same way you would buy a Golf or even a Passat. That was more my point. Also on a BMW you can option them a bit more specifically to your tastes, find them more easily used (which offers a huge savings on a CPO vehicle with the extended warranty) and even get it in a wagon if you prefer the 5 door layout; all of which are not options on the Jag. Not saying the XE is a bad pick, and in fact I applaud you for making that one; as it is unexpected and has its merits. However, I am not sure if I was going to go that route I am not sure it would be my first choice.

[@andrewnprice]

Also if you are going up to 40-45 grand for an Audi A3, I think you are better off paying slightly more and getting the A4 instead. It is more of a true Audi, has a larger fuel tank and more interior space, is probably going to be more reliable, gets better gas mileage, more powerful, and is quieter than the A3, is as fast as an A3 (and faster than a GTI), and you will be able to get it in a manual for 2017. The only drawbacks are that you can't find them used as easily as you can with the A3s, and you are going to end up paying maybe 10% more new.

[@DieselDrives]

+Andrew Price Nobody needs an A4. People think they need more space. They don't. On the flip side, the A3 is the same size as the A4 from a few generations back. Also, the A4 is not a true Audi any more than the A3. The manual A4 is tempting, but it's also ugly.

[@andrewnprice]

+Diesel Review Well appearance is subjective and is going to vary from person to person. I personally find the proportions on the A4 to be better than those on the A3; as obviously the new ones share the same styling. Also while I would normally agree with you on size, as someone that is 6'6" I will say that I do appreciate the less upright seating options a larger car can provide and it also useful if you have to fit kids or car seats in the back. Plus the A4 is going to give you more range, more economical to run, and generally base class luxury vehicles are more prone to have reliability issues because of cost cutting maneuvers. And I was quoting CR on the A3 more or less (although that was on the pre-facelift version, and admittedly Audi may have addressed that with the update) saying it tends to feel less like a luxury vehicle whereas the A4 is considered to be best in class.

[@kens97sto171]

Top trim Honda Civic... 32/42 MPG. and never have to go to the shop ever again. not as luxurious as the Jag or BMW.. but certainly comparable to a Jetta.

[@DieselDrives]

+kens97sto171 Rule #1: Never buy an expensive cheap car. The base Civic is the only Honda I'd buy.

[@kens97sto171]

Diesel Review I agree in principle, loaded is usually a waste.. I'd probably go mid tier... EX. only thing I'd miss would be the awesome looking LED headlights. You can get there safety suite of features on any trim. that gives you Radar cruise, Lane Departure Warning, Mitigation, Automatic braking to a complete stop. for an extra $1000. The Civic is not a cheap car anymore either in price or driving experience based on reviewers I've seen that have driven it.. Base price $20k well equipped $25k Totally Loaded $27k. all of which are almost $20k cheaper than that Jag or BMW. I realize they are not in the same class by nameplate or "prestige".. supposedly. but I though your video is about what cars to trade your high MPG TDI for in the buyout, Also the Civic is very roomy in the back seat. also a 5 door hatchback is coming. I just wish they didn't have CVT transmission.. hate those things... Chevy cruise diesel is supposed to be back this year available in a 5 door hatchback also.

[@DieselDrives]

+kens97sto171 If you dump your TDI, the next best thing that's now a VW, in terms of driving dynamics and price, is the new Chevy Cruze. Otherwise, the money TDI owners should have been able to save from all that fuel efficiency can be used to get into a GTI, GLI, R, or A3.

[@26point2madness]

That was a bit depressing. Those recommendations are nice, especially that Jaguar, but all are in the $40K range. If I was planning to spend that much money, I would not have purchased a TDI in the 1st place. I do agree that there will be a lot of people replacing their TDI's with the GTI and they might be in high demand. I do like the GTI or GLI but I am not willing to pay anywhere near full price for them. I can never understand why the GTI/GLI inventory is so low. For such a large company, you would think there would be more selection. I am also interested in Acura, which is a smaller company than VW. My local VW dealer only has 6 GTI's and zero GLI's in stock, but the local Acura dealer has 55 ILX's in stock. Strange.

[@SoundgardenMan]

adamar 26.2madness I'm so with you on your assessment on what so many of us are looking for. I spent 24k for my TDI. I won't spend more than 25-28k. We all already know our MPGs are going to drop dramatically and cost us more a month. We don't need bigger car payments too.

[@andrewnprice]

The Golf is getting a midcycle refresh with a bigger better infotainment system in the next month, so that is part of the reason I think that cars are more scarce. I would suggest you look at getting a used Audi or even maybe a BMW instead. Volkswagen's reliability is in the toilet since they switched to the MQB platform, and so if you plan on keeping it long term it is not the best buy. Audi on the other hand has pretty good reliability, and has similar driving dynamics. (Although not as sporty unless you got to an S4 or something.) The other option is waiting (you have two years to opt into the buyback) and wait for the new Impreza to come out, or maybe the Cruze diesel hatch if you want to keep the 5 door form factor. That said the WRX's reliability is not great either, but at least it is better than a Golf.

[@joshuar4535]

For TDI owners on a budget Chevy is putting diesels in the Cruze and Equinox.

[@SoundgardenMan]

Joshua R good point!

[@atos.nympha3451]

Joshua R are they reliable?

[@gmtech9884]

had a question on the buyback when the appraisal is done will a dent or scratch affect the value?

[@DieselDrives]

+Reef Magic I believe only mileage affects the value.

[@andrewbennett7987]

Chevy Cruze diesel next year

[@thomastague9359]

Or buy a cheap used car with cash money and not have a payment

[@DieselDrives]

+tom t If you were unable to save money over the years by saving on fuel and maintenance because you had a TDI, you have other problems.

[@mblake0420]

LMAO, keep the tdi

[@DieselDrives]

+M Blake Jr Ahhhh. You're seeing the mind trick. You're going to love it when I get to the cheap cars. None of them have 236 lb-ft of torque.

[@lexusfan100]

just dont buy VW at all..there are soo many other choices out there..

[@DieselDrives]

+lexusfan100 You must not be a TDI owner.

[@lexusfan100]

Diesel Review no sir..wait..so with this by buy back plan owners can only purchase a VW brand?

[@DieselDrives]

+lexusfan100 They can purchase whatever they want. But nothing new in the low %20k range will have the fuel efficiency and torque of their TDI.