Tech Fight! Game Proofer vs TechDisc

Craig and I compare throws from the two leading flight sensors, my Game Proofer tag and his TechDisc tag.

[@greybearddiscgolf]

**UPDATE** Just got the latest app update as well as the firmware update for the tag itself. We now have, (in BETA), nose angle, hyzer angle, and Max-G.

[@erikliljeberg4011]

@@greybearddiscgolf hmm I haven't gotten that update.. 🤔 Which version is it? My latest version is 2.2.0. Haven't thrown it since the update tho.

[@peterthallen8270]

Thanks for informativ video...Will there be a video showcasing these new futures?

[@sonquizzon]

Yay! Thank you for doing this comparison! I wrote on your last video and I can also give my feedback on using both…kind of. I no longer use my GameProofer. I got similar results like you found out on the GameProofer and I find more consistent numbers and the nose angle with the TechDisc way more beneficial. I use the TechDisc twice a week and have seen distance increase +20 to +40 feet more consistently. Using the more accurate TechDisc indoors on a net makes it way more convenient also. I also use the apps voice feedback so when I’m recording my throws I also hear the feedback when I replay my videos. Try that out if you haven’t already! Btw..I’m in MA50 here in Phoenix! 😅 Keep up the great work! Subscribed.

[@greybearddiscgolf]

@@sonquizzon Thanks for the comment! The Game Proofer has gotten way better since the update, but if you have both, there's no reason to throw anything but the TechDisc. Game Proofer says they're going to be adding nose angle and hyzer angle, but when is anyone's guess. I was really surprised how bad both were at distance measurement, but the other numbers are frankly more important. Stay cool, I'm hoping to get down to see the Memorial in Phoenix one of these years.

[@torymblue2000]

Thanks for the followup. Techdisc for sure and those that that bought the gameproofer, well, guess we all got shafted. ( ya ya ya free updates, but the updates are not the features that are needed). I will say, I'm surprised there were no "filmed" mis reads there, because that was obviously one of the biggest issues. In fact it def seems to be connecting with the phone longer than it used to.

[@greybearddiscgolf]

@torymblue2000 Missed reads are definitely a problem. I took it out one night, got about 8 good throws and it wouldn't read any after that. One thing that I found was better is the connection time. It seems to detect the magnet quicker now.

[@finTonShadow]

@@greybearddiscgolffor me since last updates, GameProofer has been retaining connection and giving results pretty solid on the net. However field mode for me does not really work. Biggest problem (if not mention missing angles) is the fixed distance on net throws which is actually used in the math. From the release point to the net… to me it is unaccurate as you release point can vary. TD doing way better atm

[@greybearddiscgolf]

@@finTonShadow I agree that TD so far has just about all the information that I would want, but the whole, you throw this disc forever or pay over $400CAD to get it on another disc is a huge letdown for me. I'm going to buy a handful of those replacement kits from Game Proofer and try to see if I can get it secured properly to say, my Hex or my driving putter, currently a PURE

[@tobemoore5278]

Good video. I bought my game proofer when they were first released in keep up with the updates as soon as they come out. The latest update will confirm I'm having the same issues you did. I know I'm throwing at least 50 to 70 ft further than what it is showing and the spin rate as well as disc speed and ratio are very inconsistent. They are aware of these issues and mentioned that they should be coming out with another update very soon.

[@greybearddiscgolf]

You know one thing I didn't figure on is the skip. GameProofer says that the measurement is based on its first contact with the ground and the are working on including the skip distance too which leads me to believe that it currently does not account for the skip. I could see that as the issue with accuracy. Without someone out there marking the discs first contact, we'd have to guess at the skip distance to add. Could it be 20 feet? 30? Maybe.

[@tobemoore5278]

@@greybearddiscgolf definitely depends on the throw in the surface. My favorite courses near me have a lot of sand and leaves so I get tons of distance off my skips

[@greybearddiscgolf]

@tobemoore5278 This field had very thick freshly cut grass, so I don't think k we were getting a ton of skip, but some for sure.

[@JustDisc]

Nice video! Love how much data you can get out of em 👍

[@greybearddiscgolf]

Yes, and being able to create action out of the data is the only real benefit. The data itself is a neat number, but the real question is what do you do with it. What changes to my game would I make. Looking at this, I'm thinking I'm happy with the spin, (which is probably why the high glide discs I throw do tend to stay in the air longer), so I'd like to look at improving my arm speed. Tip of the whip and all that...

[@SoundofDiscs]

To my understanding Game Proofer had nose angle available when they had their European Open range already a year ago! So it seems the data was not just reliable or something. Finns are quite strict by nature when it comes to technology, they don't want to release anything that doesn't work 100% accurately.

[@greybearddiscgolf]

I'm sure they've been attacking this since the very beginning. The nose angle is still a little off in my estimation, my first throws with it were -11°, -8°, and one at -23° so I think it still needs a little refining, but I'm actually really positive for their development. They've shown continual improvement, every version is getting better and the data is also getting more consistent in my estimation.

[@MelcerKarlsson]

I am waiting for the one who takes its GameProofer puck, and puts in on to the TechDisc itself. And see how they compare with their measurements ;)

[@greybearddiscgolf]

@MelcerKarlsson We'd have to put it on the top! The Tech Disc puck is epoxied to the disc. Actually that's a great idea. I could put the Tech Disc on an Undertaker to redo the comparison. I think I have one kicking around.

[@MelcerKarlsson]

@@greybearddiscgolf Probably not a good idea. I guess the calibration the techdisc might also be calibrated to the weight of the disc etc.. so my idea is not that great, even if it is a little interesting ;)

[@greybearddiscgolf]

@MelcerKarlsson Nope, that's a great idea. A proper comparison would be the same disc, same plastic, and the same weight. Shouldn't be that hard to find one that matches.

[@ToddsDiscGolf]

I can’t wait to get a tech disc!

[@HaikesXO]

4:06 I see a fellow Pokémon player 👀

[@greybearddiscgolf]

@HaikesXO Team Valor forever!

[@ThisIsVao]

Would you say the arm speed and rpm is pretty accurate for the GameProofer?

[@greybearddiscgolf]

@ThisIsVao Aside from comparing them to the TechDisc numbers, there's no real way to know without high speed cameras, but between the two readings the numbers worked out pretty close so I'd say yes, I believe them to be close to what's actually happening.

[@ThisIsVao]

Sorry, yea I meant comparing the two. GameProofer might be my pick then. I appreciate you making this video. Thanks!

[@luftisbollen]

there is long wait on tech disc, cant buy it anymore from page ?

[@AxisDiscPowers]

​@@luftisbollen Jag såg att Heatland Discgolf säljer techdisc. Men jag ska skaffa en gameproofer snart tänkte jag.

[@greybearddiscgolf]

I think so. They seem to be pretty consistent between the two, and you can see that Craig has a bit more arm speed than me. The spin, well, without an above facing high-speed camera, it's kind of hard to tell.

[@NickCarroll]

Great video I wanted to share some information with you, though you may already know it. The distance calculated in Tech Disc is an estimate of where it first lands, and does not take into account extra distance from ground skips, rolls, or anything else beyond that point. The Tech Disc extrapolates the flight from the first 2-3 milliseconds of flight and uses a set of algorithms to plot what it thinks the disc did beyond that point. It also doesn't factor in any wind or elevation. So the DD3 should skip a little farther than the Undertaker. I still think the distance was lower on both of them in the app

[@greybearddiscgolf]

I know I sound like a broken record, but in an promised update... Game Proofer says they'll be able to calculate roll and skip distance, by basically detecting the first ground impact and then adding the distance when it comes to rest. From their website - "Rolling Duration and Distance [COMING IN 2024] Roll Duration in seconds and Distance in meters/feets (sic) from the first hit until the tag has stopped moving. Only available in FIELD mode.

[@NickCarroll]

@@greybearddiscgolf I absolutely appreciate your updates, and all your videos on this. I have both a Tech Disc and Gameproofer but I have yet to experiment with the latter. I'm a bit less enthusiastic about it than I originally was. I ordered them on the same day and the GP arrived months after the TD did. Maybe by the time I use it more features will roll in. 😁

[@kylelackner1695]

Love the video! One comment: you can see that the techdisc flight path is showing a much more stable disc than you're throwing. I think the default is a stable 9 speed and yours is quite flippy. If you change your flight numbers in the simulator until you get the same shape, then I guess the modeled flights will be a lot closer to the observed.

[@greybearddiscgolf]

@kylelackner1695 What is interesting to note is that TechDisc specifically won't allow changing the Fade number, so although it was set up with the numbers for the Undertaker, it calculated less fade than the disc is rated. It gave us a fade of 1.75 as opposed to the rated 2. Now, I don't believe that a quarter of a point has a measureable impact on the distance it gave us, (considering our arm speed and power level), it was interesting that they took that ability to specify fade completely away. This is from their FAQ. "Calculating Fade: While turn and fade are distinct, they are interconnected. The approximate fade value of a disc is calculated using a combination of its speed and turn ratings. This value is not directly user-adjustable but helps to understand the overall flight path." I'm going to dig around in the Marshall Street flight guide and see if what they are saying holds true, as it seems to suggest that every 12 speed disc with -1 turn will always have the same fade.

[@kylelackner1695]

@@greybearddiscgolf Right. What I do is adjust the flight numbers on the simulator until the left to right movement that I observed in the field is approximately represented by the simulator. In the case of this video I think the shot at 14:50 is the most obvious - that looks like it had some turn and finished about dead straight. The simulator showed straight with a dump to get to 261. If I put the data recorded in the simulator and change the disc to 9, 5, -2, 0.75 then I get a flight that's pretty straight (not sure the path is the same cause I can't see it clearly in the video, but gets to about the same place on left to right axis). The result is a simulator flight of 299 feet while you had 96 yards (288 feet)...So it gets it a lot closer (explainable by your tail wind for sure). Anyways, just wanted to say that we can't really say that the simulator is accurate when the simulator doesn't know what disc you're throwing. Even though I can't adjust fade and turn separately, I am generally able to use the turn number to get to a simulator flight that's pretty close to my observed flights.

[@greybearddiscgolf]

@@kylelackner1695 So then it's a matter of seeing the flight that it follows, then adjusting the numbers, (it defaulted to the Undertaker numbers), to match more closely the actual flight. I can't see the ability to change the flight numbers in the app version of the software, does the web-based version allow you to do that?

[@greybearddiscgolf]

@@kylelackner1695 And side-note, the Game Proofer doesn't seem to give a rat's patootie about flight numbers, but they are promising a 2d flight path in an upcoming update.

[@kylelackner1695]

@@greybearddiscgolf Yes, you can throw a putter but convert it to a driver in the web. My buzzz also shows straight 9 speed by default in the app. But my disc also doesn't fly like a buzzz - it's a little more understable than my buzzz SS in fact. So even if the default is the correct disc, of course there is still variance in flight. As such, I find that changing my flight numbers to something like 5, 5, -2 / -2.5, 0 generates a flight in the simulator quite close to what I see in reality.

[@AxisDiscPowers]

My take as someone who hasn't used either and who is probably going for the Gameproofer soon. Gameproofer is a finished hardware product. Techdisc is not. Techdisc will eventually release a product that you can put on any disc and that they don't individually calibrate. That will bring the price way down and the beta hardware in the wild will not be worth much. Gameproofer is aiming to solve more complicated algorithms NOW, but the downside is a pruduct that software wise is a lot more immature. Different routes that will end up with very similar end products. But the gameproofer is half the price and the hardware is set. So I would rather buy a gameproofer now and follow the software journey than a techdisc for twice the price that will eventually be worth almost nothing.

[@greybearddiscgolf]

I think you hit the nail on the head here. There really isn't any other information I know of, that we could want for the purposes of optimizing our throws.

[@craig5447]

I disagree, but I own the tech disc in the video :) One of the things we didn’t talk about is the tech disc software allows you to see how your throws stack up on a top tier pdga hole. Mine suck but it’s still super fun :) there’s also a game on steam whose developer is working with TechDisc to integrate the metrics.. basically you can throw the disc and your throw is reflected in the game ala top golf style :)

[@AxisDiscPowers]

@@craig5447 That game could easily add support for gameproofer though. The game only needs the values.

[@craig5447]

@@AxisDiscPowers ahh not quite. The game relies of tech discs physics calculations. Gameproofer doesn’t have those as of yet

[@AxisDiscPowers]

@@craig5447 Yeah, they might have a deal with techdisc that they can only use their simulation in combination with techdisc, I have no idea, but if metrics are fed into the game anything could be used. You wouldn't even need a disc. You could just choose the values of the throw.

[@cricketfilms1879]

bro wtf just bring a net?

[@garypleasant3116]

Can you use a net with the gameproofer?

[@greybearddiscgolf]

@@garypleasant3116 Yes, but it does not give you any distance estimates. You can see in the video that my previous throws into the net registered as 10 ft. They have promised a number of updates to the FIELD mode, but they have not promised the ability to estimate distance in RANGE mode yet.

[@erikliljeberg4011]

@@garypleasant3116 yes you can. As Greybeard said, though you need to set the distance to the net. But owning a gameproofer myself and from what I've seen from Techdisc my conclusion is that the Techdisc is a lot faster on calculating and it works at 10ft. Where as the Gameproofer in the manual said "Recommended distance to the net is 30 ft." My net being 2x2m from 30 ft any rookie trying the gameproofer might launch it into infinity and miss the net. Or hit a rock hard wall behind the net... So at the time being I'm not happy with the Gameproofer. I've also gotten a lot of weird measurments. 108mph arm speed for one... (I'm probably around 60-65mph at max)... Also sometimes it not even measuring RPM or flight speed etc. It's still in an early phase though so i HOPE that they solve this asap...

[@greybearddiscgolf]

​@@erikliljeberg4011I'm getting a strong feeling that we bought into a BETA test with the Game Proofer, like my daughter paid to buy Baldur's Gate 3 when it was still in BETA.

[@erikliljeberg4011]

@@greybearddiscgolf yeah I feel like that too. Hopefully they will get everything with future updates. But they did say that it already had everything that we are waiting for still. But hoping to use mine more in the near future. When throwing it in the field last time. It lost connection. And when I retrieved the disc the data was corrupted. So it showed no spin etc. But yeah only the future will tell! 😊