Technical Certifications a Huge Mistake (Google, Meta, Udemy...)

How valuable are technical certifications in getting a job? Is the Meta Frontend Developer certification worth it? What about Udemy courses and other certificates of completion? Here's my take on programming certs as a senior software engineer.
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[@bemccune7671]

Is it a "huge mistake", really? I hate hyperbolic clickbait titles. Obviously a portfolio and proof of skills is super important, but certs aren't a "huge waste of time" particularly when someone is going for a particular position. The road is different for everyone. I like that you focus on learning>certs but it's unreasonable to say that they are a "huge mistake".

[@thatoneguywithtwothumbs]

and here a year later what you is even more true. even with a degree specific certs can count a lot.

[@TazExprez]

I think certifications are valuable if you want to get into IT. If you want to become a developer, then you should probably build business class applications, basically the ones that you will be hired to build, and put them on your portfolio site.

[@jamescross]

Totally agree.

[@j.echevarria8630]

Easier said than done in my humble opinion.

[@jamescross]

@@j.echevarria8630 If it was easy, everyone would be doing it and the pay wouldn't be great. Same goes for most things worth doing in life.

[@j.echevarria8630]

@@jamescross i think the challenge is in how sure you can be that your project is at the leve required for a business. I’m doing Data Science and can grab any old kaggle data set and perform analysis but choosing a model and being sure that it is the best model can be a challenge. I think certificates are great because they provide examples and projects. The more we iterate the more we understand the bigger picture.

[@jamescross]

@@j.echevarria8630 I don't think you have to completely build an app to scale that matches what a company with tons of engineers would do. I view it more as building things similar to what companies are building even if at a smaller scale. Makes it easy to look at your projects and say hey, this person is using the frameworks we are using, building similar stuff, is passionate about this type of project, let's give it a go. Other types are projects help with learning. I did a variety myself, but then I had to be more proactive on explaining how those skills translated to the needs of the job that I was interviewing for.

[@Lordyung89]

I’m taking classes on UDEMY not because of certs, I know I need to get a basic understanding in the beginning of the journey. Ultimately, my plan is to apply the knowledge that I am gaining in order to build something that will shine on my future portfolio. One thing that is very hard for beginning self learners is finding the right path. It’s not as easy as a being a college student and choosing a degree where the path is already pretty much laid out.

[@jamescross]

Good plan and I agree it is challenging to make your own path.

[@Lordyung89]

@@jamescross you’re right! A lot of people need that first catalyst project. It’s usually the first project that gets people rolling.

[@wykydytron]

Yup, Udemy is great place to start but you literally can just tick all boxes and not even look at single video to get that cert, pointless no matter how you look at that.

[@Lordyung89]

@@wykydytron you’re absolutely right, that’s why I just use their format as a way of keeping track of where I’m at. Thanks everyone for the sound advice!

[@Lordyung89]

@Bob 100%

[@eclipsygaming4890]

People, definitely, shouldn't be looking at certifications as the endgame but rather a starting point. Nowadays, we are blessed with the accessibility for whatever information we need, but that can also be a disadvantage because One would not know where to start. I see the Meta/google/IBM Coursera certifications, for example, as a method for a beginner getting into a certain field to have an idea about the skills needed for the job and most importantly, learn them in the right order without skipping important details. If you view this kind of certifications in that way, in my personal opinion, they will be a great asset, a guide of some sort. So, yea, other than that, I totally agree with you.

[@atwajesper9434]

I think this subject is pretty simple in a way. Most industries, specially software development are results oriented. Which means that many employers even though they may put a lot of value on a Uni degree, many of them would be happy to hire whoever is capable of adding value to their companies. Certifications are good. You just have to make sure that you’re actually learning because the goal shouldn’t be collecting certs but actually learning. It all comes down to: “Can you prove in an interview that you actually know what you claim you know.”

[@jamescross]

great thoughts

[@Wesjapa100]

Certifications and Certificates are different things, and it's easy for people to be confused with the terminologies.

[@ryanfrancisco8109]

Currently I'm taking the PHP course on Udemy to help me build my information management systems on my work. Certs is great but it really depends on what type of role you'll be applying to.

[@philamavikane9423]

I complete certificates to get a good picture of what I might miss otherwise. It’s not particularly for the job application neither do I spend too much time on it. Its just a bonus for me being self-taught to have something (with projects). It’s merely there to help me know what I need to know and what I can do with the tech. Though I must I agree, it’s easy to get hung up on it while there is little effect to someone who’ll hire you

[@jamescross]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@RATCHET0697]

Currently certifications are just a benchmark thing for me. As I'm learning I'm also trying to build my own project but for someone who's never touched this until last year i have no idea how the things I use everyday even work but getting into it I love it. Growing up on Legos and building things was always fun. Working with code and the frustrations when something doesn't work it's so gratifying when I figure out why and how something works and to get it to work

[@abdirahmann]

certifications in IT is very valuable, i'll give an example, to get a Network engineering job, you could get to college or do Cisco certifications which are Really valuable and incredibly cheap compared to college and the route to becoming a network engineer is pretty simple, get the CCNA (Cisco certified networking associate), then CCNP (professional level), then the expert level which is the CCIE, anither field i can give an example is cybersec, get the Sec+, linux+, EJPT cert and then finally OSCP, college is valuable, but these certs will accelerate your career soo fast its mad. and some colleges require their students to pass these certs anyway and these certs are very reputable. thanks for taking your time to read this

[@jamescross]

I totally agree that recognized certs in that part of the industry are valuable. That is an area where it's almost required in a lot of cases.

[@wykydytron]

Yeah but then you have front end and pretty much no respected certificates as it's free for all. Networking and security may be only IT fields that do have respected and required certificates. As for degree i guess it depends on country, where I live it's pretty easy to get IT degree (it's general degree with specialization in last year) but your knowledge about lets say JavaScript or Java will be around same level as any begginers Udemy course but hey you have degree. It created environment that if you try to get into IT no one cares about anything other then your skill, even for junior or paid inter position they will test your skill and actual knowledge over your papers or portfolio because they know that if you didn't learn how to code in free time you may still know nothing since the degree means you attended college but says nothing about your knowledge. I'm sure it's different in USA but in Europe it's a mess right now in many countries.

[@jamescross]

@@wykydytron interesting. thanks for sharing your experience.

[@NoirMorter]

This helped me a lot recently. I began by doing my resume site, then linking a few programs I built as well as a website for a family members business. It went well, they took a chance and hired me. Now to not mess it up!

[@jamescross]

that's awesome!

[@jakobjaworski9526]

Thank you, that makes sense.

[@Dr.Kananga]

My suggestion would be to start with youtube tutorial, there are plenty good that teach you the basics, so you can understand without committing time and money to full courses that might not be the thing you're looking for. Then proceed on a certification that has a road map for beginner to develop enough layers to do your first portfolio projects. Finally, a more in.depth certificate to switch gear and solidify the previous learning with complementary portfolio projects.

[@ninjaoftherift1620]

I think 1 good cert like the meta one is good to have but not multiple a lot ofyoung devs like me just want to do 4 or 5 certs when my projects and experience matter more I've realized having my own web dev agency has helped a lot

[@kneza96BG]

What do you think about AWS certs? I think those are worth getting along with having actual hands-on experience ( like building your own architectures, deploying apps and websites and writing cloudformation templates )

[@jamescross]

I group the AWS certs in the good bucket, especially for a lot of dev ops roles and other development specializations. I know several people who got those and it helped them get promotions.

[@johnswanson1977]

It depends on the job you want ultimately. Software engineering probably not, I’m doing one in data analysis and the skills I am learning are worth it.

[@ramirorenteria7333]

I’m at the point where I’ve gone through a bit of JavaScript but have a hard time coming up with a solution to something like changing numbers to Roman numerals 😕

[@truthruster]

The employers place high value on a university degree but it is only an expensive piece of paper with an institution's branding which someone spends 4 years acquiring and no different than a $50 online certificate .If someone can acquire the basic skills needed to be a developer within the usual 4 years then employers should be open to that and helping to develop that further instead of pressing on traditional educational qualifications but unfortunately, a large majority still screen out people if they don't have the "right" background without giving a chance and the funny thing is the people with 4 year degrees still struggle on the job and employers still complain there are not good developers available. If the measurement of qualification is "time" then both employers and job seekers are losers.

[@st6ph6n28]

Get recognized certs + build a portfolio, even if the portfolio consists of side projects. Just, in some way, show the employer that although you are new to the industry and have no experience, you are attempting to go outside of the certification bubble and get into the real world.

[@theethans898]

I have ideas for apps so I figure why not learn the skills thru one of these fang certs, hope one day they’ll offer me a job so I can tell them to kick rocks

[@makelpearce8821]

College Senior here, I just wanted to: 1. Thank you so much for the phenomenal, informational/inspiring videos. They have really been helping me figure out some of the potential paths that are out there while keeping me from overwhelming myself. 2. I've recently joined the ctf club at my university and gained a new interest in pen testing. In your opinion, do you think it would be more beneficial to improve my skills in front-end development that I've been doing over the past few months or to hold off for now and really learn the ins and outs of penetration testing?

[@jamescross]

College is a great time to explore interests. Sounds like pen testing is worth looking into to see how you like it since it peaked your interest. I once attended a pen tester type presentation at a meetup and it was super interesting. The thing is, even if you decide not to pursue pen testing, it's great to know about vulnerabilities and would give you interesting stuff to talk about in interviews even for front-end development roles since you do see that tons. Best wishes on your decision. Rather than say what you should do, just remember that you are just at the beginning of your career. Nothing is set in stone and you can pivot later.

[@afaque.]

It's different in different countries

[@metallmad77]

exactly on point, I've attended the Google Data Analytics course out of curiosity and earned the certificate of "completion" in a month, I'm a former backend developer and a current senior data analyst, wanted to know whether I can recommend it or not for junior analysts and my colleagues, TBH, it's good for those who need an introduction into this field, but you cannot guarantee a job with it alone, especially if you don't have knowledge in statistics, linear algebra even calculus if your job "most likely" is involved with data scientists and machine learning, Google is providing support in finding entry jobs within the U.S. only, the same goes for the other cert programs by Meta and IBM, it's good to start there, but don't take it as a final step before the job, in the interviews they will ask you to showcase studies and explain the approach which got you into insights and conclusion, they will test your skills in Excel, SQL, R and Python, also both Tableau and Power BI, AWS data lake and more, also if you're 40+ your chances will be close to nothing because at that age range employers expect seniors, this is the harsh reality, this has been said, I'm going back into programming the job I've always loved and I'm 45 now, I will quit working for people and go freelancing!

[@eclipsygaming4890]

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind answering, why did you switch from backend development to data analytics? Because I'm on the other side of the coin. I'm a senior in a Business school, had started thinking about going into data analytics and started learning the required skills like SQL, python. But just lately, I'm starting to have a change of heart mainly because I didn't want to be cleaning data on excel 70% of the time and I actually started considering frontend development, even though I'm a business student with just a bit of beginner-level programming skills. I'd really appreciate you elaborating as to what turned you away from web development, as someone who's been on both sides of the coin

[@metallmad77]

@@eclipsygaming4890 well, my last company who I worked for decided to transform into data driven business full BI transformation in late 2018, since I was their Database Engineer for 8 years, they offered me to lead the Data Analytics team, as I've been doing some Database KPIs before and had decent knowledge in their data structure and resources, after accepting the hefty offer it was an instant regret because you know being technical for the whole of your life and suddenly you need to adapt a business mindset to talk to old school commercial stakeholders who have no idea about how to trust linear regression rather than gut feeling in their "forecast", after 3 years of this turmoil I decided to quit the job and go back into full stack developer job and system analytics, my advice to you, do what is comfortable to you and have the passion for it, because nothing is worse than a toxic job that will end you addicted on stress meds, and the world needs more programmers now more than anything else, also it's a job that can be your own business, whereas Data Analytics is good if you're in the right work environment with open minded people, and you need to have a domain knowledge, good luck mate!

[@jzero3g]

Im currently on my journey to try to get a job as a programmer. I started with udemy for 2 months doing 2 hours a day and learned some basics but i feel like i still didnt have a good structure so i decided to enroll in back end bootcamp. I have 4 more weeks left. What i realized that i needed the bootcamp to know how to structure my learning. Now after the bootcamp i would know how to keep gaining skills and resources to complete the projects that i had in mind until i get a job in tech

[@jgvbadv]

I'm lost man.. I have a college degree in Multimedia (little bit of IT, Photography/Video production, Graphic design) and I can't decide which route to take cause most of them require job experience.. I decided to go IT route and with that fund my Video making business. Is Meta course on Front end valuable to get me started? Cheers all the way from poor ass Croatian dude 😄

[@jamescross]

I haven't taken the meta course so can speak to it, though if I were starting out, I would probably look into it.

[@miguelsalazar8663]

Would you recommend getting a computer science degree in your thirties or is that just simply too late? I keep hearing about ageism in the industry.

[@jamescross]

kinda depends on your situation and finances. For me, I already had a history degree so I was ineligible for a lot of loan options and grants. I also had a family to take care of and I just couldn't justify going back. My history degree has satisfied some promotion / level requirements at some companies so not totally wasted. If I was early thirties and didn't have a degree, I would probably try to learn on my own and get a job to start getting experience and then look into a part time degree program if I felt like it was holding me back in my areas of interest. But some folks may have the resources to go all in on school full time. Ageism does happen. I've seen more of it when I applied to startups. Seems to be much bigger mix of ages at larger enterprise type companies. Best wishes in your decision. It was a hard decision for me to make too.

[@miguelsalazar8663]

@@jamescross Thanks for the insight! Your videos have been a great help and motivator for me.

[@familyguycuts510]

James, I want to know if we need Google level skills to be a good frontend developer?

[@jamescross]

Kinda like asking if you need professional race skills to be a good driver. Really depends on how and what you plan to drive. IMO, a good developer is someone who is trying to become better, learning from past mistakes to improve their ability to design good systems and can communicate with and mentor others. As you progress up the levels, you typically spend more time influencing things across the organizations which requires more soft skills. Some don't want that and prefer to stay at a certain level and be good at that level. It's very much a personal journey. If you are striving to improve and stretch toward your personal interests and goals, you are probably on the right path.

[@pikkok7867]

Congrat me luck! Love from india. 🎉

[@Thoughtprocess_7]

Do you think Code Academy is a good resource for learning code?

[@jamescross]

haven't used it so can't personally vouch for it, though I have heard some good things about it.

[@aaronwiley1807]

Regarding certifications we need to distinguish between IT and Developers. In IT, industry certification from organizations like CompTIA, Cisco, Microsoft, etc. hold a ton of weight / value and are often times a hard requirement to get a job regardless of your experience or weather you have a degree or not. For example if you wanted to work certain government jobs you have to hold and maintain certain certifications, there are no exceptions. Now this is totally different for Developers because as far as know there is no industry standard certifications for Developers. That said I don't think it is a complete waste of time to go through Udemy, Coursera "certifications" to learn the material and to help us as a guide to build your own project. Some of these courses are actually really good. Just understand what they are. Also for something like the Meta certifications and a lot of the other ones on Coursera you can "Audit" those courses for free which gives you access to all the learning material you just don't get the badge of completion at the end.

[@jamescross]

I agree with you

[@kobibr9362]

If you work a normal 8 to 10 h/day programing work and also do certification, that means that you work more. So I dont see in what way you could say that the guys with certification is less focused. Even if he did not build anything, I would be happy to hear the guy say that he was curious, did it and that’s it. Not everything has to be built up. Do I remember those network courses? Hell no! Those got deleted out of my brain the moment those credits got validated 😂

[@hailex2045]

Hey devsmark, can you tell me what'll be the source to learn javascript after html & css for the sake of learning (not for completion), free might be appreciated.

[@jamescross]

These are some I like: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2WQqXWCnb9nd6c

[@L4Festa]

I feel like this is a pretty bad take because it is so general. I'll take one specific example, the Meta iOS certificates. If you pursue a CS degree, will that introduce you to iOS development? It is a relatively new programming language that you will not learn in college or university. I myself had PHP and then JAVA, I got nothing out of those and I had to enroll into a bootcamp to get an entry level job. Meta has the iOS developer certificates and I think those are pretty good and add massive value. Lets say you're looking to switch from web dev because you're paid peanuts, I think the iOS certs will add the credibility you're missing to get yourself an iOS job.

[@jamescross]

thanks for sharing your thoughts

[@L4Festa]

After reading my initial comment again, I would like to point out a portion of it that I think is very important but not emphasized enough. Adding credibility when you're able to already do the job vs achieving a certificate while not being an already established developer will do nothing for the career. From that perspective I can agree that certificates are useless. Do not certificates as credentials for things you cannot do. You will be tested on interviews and you will be failing them.

[@yuusufahmed1514]

Hey, I'm Yuusuf and 20 years old. I’m interested in becoming a self-taught web developer, and I would like to meet serious people who want to connect so we could make a study group and make a plan together. If you are interested, let me know.

[@emmanuelabedide9697]

Thanks a lot uncle devsmak.

[@jamescross]

Always welcome

[@emmanuelabedide9697]

@@jamescross Yes mentor, looking forward to your next video. Thanks for putting your time and energy to create and educate us properly, it's a lot of you ask me. You know, being a family man and all. My regards to your patient wife who encouraged you during your hard times and your wonderful kids. Emmanuel, from Nigeria.

[@kirtperez9938]

I want to reach out to apple users in Web dev. I want to buy the base model macbook air m2 chipped. I plan on learning full stack web dev HTML, CSS, JS, React, Node, SQL. Although I'm aware that web dev isn't demanding as others that I wouldnt need a expensive device, I want to get a macbook for the ecosystem. I feel like base model should be fine, but I'm also hoping I don't have any annoying hiccups. I plan on reselling it in a under a year as that's how long I plan to learn and start applying. 8gb of ram and 256gb of storage for reference.

[@latinstuff1]

Well it’s been 4 months since I graduated from a bootcamp called ironhack and still no job, it’s not easy as these bootcamp like to put it. You need to continue to study even after the bootcamp and actually build apps.

[@jamescross]

Hopefully something comes your way soon.

[@latinstuff1]

@@jamescross thanks man, you know what’s interesting is that my bootcamp teacher shared with me your channel, since he knew my situation and explained that this KZbinr(you) went through a similar situation to mine, which was being locked up and then becoming a web developer, and that i should check it out and I am glad i did, i watched your story video a few weeks ago and was inspired to continue becoming better at this and not give up. So respect sir and my teacher loves your channel btw.

[@jamescross]

cool. thanks for sharing!

[@shoretireboluwatife1399]

Please what's your twitter handle let's follow you