Change in your Transportation Future | Zach Krapfl | TEDxPaonia

[@dgelinas1000]

It's still so relevant 7.5 years later...dynamically delivered!

[@Veem2]

One of the best videos I have seen making the case for pedal assist bikes (E-Bikes) as a serious and viable form of transportation. It has a clever correlation of the energy efficiency of a rider and an E-bike as compared to other forms of transportation. Interestingly, a rider using solar energy for charging and practicing a "locavore" lifestyle is more efficient than a passenger on a train. The health benefits alone (especial mental health, weight control and regular exercise) seals the deal. Two thumbs up and double ding.

[@Beery1962]

The health benefits of regular cycling far outweigh those of using an electric bike, and solar panels require far more energy in their manufacture and delivery than a regular bike does. Electric bikes are a false economy.

[@jsfranks840]

@@Beery1962 Add to that the CO2 costs of battery manufacturing. The speaker does a great job of taking more aspects into account but not the complete picture. Good comment.

[@gilberda]

Since I got my Sondors e-bike I have been in better shape, happier and, eager to go run errands with it! The only thing that is a pain in the a** is having to double lock it to a fixed object all the time - takes a little longer than locking the car.

[@noelgibson5956]

I'm a 51 yo guy whose never owned a car or held a license. I never have trouble paying my bills , and am in peak physical shape. I don't have cops on my back, maintenance costs, gas price worries or insurance to worry about. I can just give all these the middle finger. I get to look at the world around me, rather than drive straight past it never looking at what I'm passing. As well as bikes, it would be nice to also have those rickshaws like in some Asian countries. Be at one with the world around you......and lose the car.

[@fwefhwe4232]

thats great are you into motorcycles ?

[@scoremat]

How many girlfriends have you had in those 51yrs 😅😅

[@lenblack1462]

You must live in NY.

[@TheAmericanCatholic]

He is Australian

[@vincentchambers6401]

I love the engineering angle. It’s purely logical.

[@deanreeve5257]

If you measure food transportation, you would have to measure the same thing for oil and other efficiency losses for the energy that goes into the electric train/car. Start looking at energy inputs to build and maintain vehicles and roads/tracks and it gets even more clear Basically, the bicycle gets more efficient than he even admits to.

[@physiovivekgaur]

Love this video. ❤️❤️❤️

[@maxwelledm1]

Awesome talk many valid reasons here for jumping on the Ebike!

[@Elvmotors]

1000 miles per gallon and less than a year payback, makes the electric bike the future of transportation, which is available now.

[@fwefhwe4232]

that'a for a USD 5000 dollar ebike. Here in India you can get one for 500 USD.

[@ariesneil693]

i know Im asking the wrong place but does anyone know a method to log back into an Instagram account? I somehow lost the login password. I love any assistance you can give me.

[@thomasreuben150]

@Aries Neil instablaster :)

[@ariesneil693]

@Thomas Reuben Thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and im waiting for the hacking stuff atm. Seems to take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@otishaschemeyer8194]

Great talk. Perhaps, my favorite. Thanks. I often quote you.

[@AaronDanielKelly]

This was a great talk! Thank you! Would you please provide links to data supporting the MPG numbers stated in the talk?

[@specialist-in-tech]

Do the math yourself, and look up how to do mechanical efficiency and calorie calculations. its not his job to teach you basic grade school level math. Sheesh, some people are just so stinking lazy, or just stinking skeptical unless they see some 'official source.' Most of what you see using Google or Wikipedia btw is flat out wrong, but people need to see those 'sources' to legitimize their false beliefs.

[@jsfranks840]

Great question. The speaker has a number of assumptions build into his MPG estimates. For example, generating power by solar panel eliminates CO2 production entirely. Not so fast. The energy cost of manufacturing the solar panel is significant and must be added back in. He also doesn't include the energy costs to manufacture the bike battery which are high as well. Without seeing the assumptions and details we can't evaluate. Many don't want to share those details because it destroys the narrative.

[@4nz-nl]

@@jsfranks840 Compared to manufacturing a (battery for a) car, or refining a lifetime of fuel for an ICE car, the emissions of the solar panel + E-bike are a joke. However, nobody has forbidden you to use a bike without E ;-)

[@emretunca5743]

I hope to see more bike in the citys. great talk.

[@Flix-f6q]

I agree with you about efficiency. What I miss is the factor of Money and "total cost ownership" of e-bikes, since a bike with batteries has higher replacement costs than a pedaling bike. And to convince car owners to switch, e-bikes need to be more comfortable, especially in cold and wet weather. The cost of e-bikes has to become lower by using standardized technology.

[@deanreeve5257]

The average American spends over $10000 per year to own a vehicle. Factor in the cost to purchase, interest, depreciation, registration, parking, fuel, and maintenance. It's shocking when you actually do the math.

[@Bra-a-ains]

Excellent video, except for one thing, $5000 for an e-bike is way too much. It needs to be about $2000 for a basic model to $3000 for a long tail cargo bike. Also, a new battery, after 1000 charges, cost about $500. So, each charge is only $0.15 for electricity, bit also another $0.50 for the battery, for a total of $0.65 per charge. Unless you live in a hilly area or need to wear a suit while you ride, a non-electric bike will do. As we transition to more bike riding, I would expect big companies to have shower rooms, sort of like the locker rooms in gyms. Then, you can sweat all you want.

[@fwefhwe4232]

you can get from 500 usd. or build one yourself using kit - even cheaper.

[@specialist-in-tech]

Quality ebikes start at $1100 and you can get great quality with large battery for $2000 . Only 300 brands out there now here in the US. do some homework.

[@4nz-nl]

Showering at work is exactly what I do. My commute is 33 miles, I ride it in 1h15m without E-assist. I'm no superhuman, I own a velomobile.

[@cooperwoods9697]

Awesome Zach! way to crush it!

[@murugnimai]

Nice talk

[@howtomakemoneywithyourelec2190]

Since 2014 I've been using my E longboard with my dial a driver service. Helping me generate income with jobs under 12km.

[@LZmiljoona]

Yeah, I wonder how other personal electric vehicles compare in mpg. Like electric skateboards (longboards), electric unicycles, kick bikes, ... or theoretically e-bikes where you don't need to pedal.

[@nategladdbach]

Could you list your sources or calculations for these numbers? It'd be much appreciated, thanks!

[@specialist-in-tech]

He's an engineer, unlike you, he doesn't need 'sources' or to google it. That's what us engineers do. We know inherently how to do it. I'm a degreed mechanical engineer, and I have verified his calcs on my own. He's spot on and if anything, conservative in his estimates.

[@BoonBreyne]

Good talk. How about velomobiles/recumbent bicycles? They should be even more efficient than normal bicycles because they aim to minimise the dominant resistance force, being the aerodynamic resistance. Often also electrically assisted, they may be the peak of efficiency?

[@Tazdeviloo7]

Yes, that's peak efficiency on something like a rail trail with little stops. The extra weight of the frame in stop and go will be less efficient.

[@BoonBreyne]

@@Tazdeviloo7 The moment you said "rail trail" my mind went off thinking about recumbent bicycles with metal wheels on a metal rail and I'm all for it 😂

[@Test-dq5ne]

Turns out slow traffic due to congestion is good when otherwise drivers would break speed limits and put other drivers in danger. 😊

[@moosefactory133]

I have a cousin in Tuscon who has an electric bike and he really likes it

[@V1RT8]

There is a point that is missing… if something makes you happy, doesn’t mean that it will make me happy too. We are humans, different tastes, different dreams, we have to respect each other and respect different points of views to live well all together. I have been climbing mountains my whole life, I love the wilderness and I respect Mother Nature, but as a pilot I love flying a jet aircraft and driving my Porsche top down to get to the base of the mountain that I’ll climb. If I like Italian cheese, French champagne and Scottish salmon, I don’t care if it comes from the other side of the world, I like it, I buy it with the money I make and I enjoy it! I get it, we have to save energy, limit the pollution and so on… I walk to the grocery, I take a bus to the airport and I put less than 4,000 miles per year on my car, but if you pretend that I should ride an electric bike for the rest of my life and eat local food… my answer will be “Feel free to do it yourself buddy and enjoy it!”

[@calvingreene90]

Sitting comfortably in my car in gridlock beats riding a bicycle. The frustration of gridlock is not accepting the me time you get in your car.

[@4nz-nl]

You get me-time and exercise and an endorfin spike on a bicycle. Also, you're travel time is not volatile, in a lot of cases you're quicker than by car. Trust an ex-petrolhead: The bicycle beats the car sixfold.

[@calvingreene90]

@@4nz-nl I get pain, exhaustion, misery, and depression. There is nothing me about it.

[@4nz-nl]

@@calvingreene90 Exhaustion? true, but that's functional to a certain extent. Misery? can be true too. If you exhaust yourself and don't know how to deal with it even light sports can be really hard (for example "bonking" -> running into a lack of food). Depression -> That would mean your brain response to endorfins is negative, and I think that's close to a medical wonder. There's actually a causal relationship between low endorfin levels and depression. Last but not least: Unless you're already in a really good physical shape, exercise is the only thing that gets you any (me-)time. The time spent now is literally added at the end, in either quality of life, simply dying later or a combination of those two.

[@4nz-nl]

@@calvingreene90 Oh, one last thing ;) It does get easier with practice. The speed I ride now when my body is basically idling, no-sweat-mode (105-110 bpm heartrate) is faster than I could ride at max effort when I started. Out of 8 commutes per week, I usually only do one max effort (155-160 bpm average heartrate). The rest are relaxed maintenance rides (120-125 bpm), enjoying the scenery, waving at people in traffic jam on the highway etcetera.

[@calvingreene90]

@@4nz-nl So by being miserable now I can have more old sick and miserable at the end of my life.

[@otishaschemeyer8194]

Eugene Oregon should be a city like Copenhagen with 35-40% ridership, but it isn't. The issue is to build those protected lanes--that are convenient, central, and "have the priority," and that requires money and political will. So, given the truth of bicycle/ e-bike efficiency, how do we get the infrastructure so we will ride them? We don't need more roads, but to transform those car/truck roads to protected-bike/car/truck roads. Without that, no one's going to leave those cars out of fear.

[@emiel1976ep]

That is not true. The cost to make a road with separet bike lanes, don't cost more. Money is the excuse they use to prevent that there is less space for cars.

[@4nz-nl]

You need a few people that are willing to start. Be the change.

[@emiel1976ep]

There are cities in the USA and Canada that try to improve there roads for bikes but stil fail. Yes more people started riding there bike, but it's still limited. Reason is simple, they added bike lanes but not the safest way and cars cept the same amount of space that they already had. So there is no reason to ride a bike and in most cases, it's still not save. They don't want to reduce the amount space for cars in the city. But as they want to make it better, they must change the roads in the cities a lot. As they make that there are only 2 lanes in each street and make the city center free of cars, than things will change fast. But Americans are lazy and take there car even to ride to the end of the street. The talk about money doesn't mater to Americans, they love there car more than there house.

[@mklinger23]

My job is a 35 min, 30 mile trip. I've tried public transit/biking. Unfortunately, that both takes about 80-90 minutes. It's just not worth the extra time.

[@4nz-nl]

I ride 33 miles in 1h15m in a metropolitan area, but the way your area sounds, I'd probably be quicker because there's so little traffic. So let's say I manage your commute in 70 minutes; that's 70 minutes extra per day of riding. Aside from not spending money on gasoline or expensive car maintenance for those miles, for that day, it would mean cramming 140 minutes of exercise into 70 minutes of time. Time you get back at the end of your life, when your cardiovascular system can take a beating because it's so well trained. Trust an ex-petrolhead on this one: 99% chance that the right bicycle is more efficient in your situation, too.

[@mklinger23]

@@4nz-nl hey dude. I really appreciate you taking the time to type that out. I actually got a new job that's a 20 minute train ride away. And I'll be moving in the next few months so that it will be a 10-20 min bike ride. I figured if my situation isn't what I want it to be, I'll simply change where I live and where I work so that I'm not stressed out on my commute and I can get the most out of life.

[@4nz-nl]

@@mklinger23 Super cool! And sounds familiar. I'm near 40 and I literally spent more than a year of my life behind the wheel of various cars; in hindsight it feels like such a waste of valuable time... Now, life is a lot better. At least I'm having fun! :)

[@BoonBreyne]

Good talk! However, if the geography has the largest impact on the ecological impact of food in this research, there's quite a lot of info missing. The difference in the ecological impact between plant-based diets and more meat-heavy diets is a multitude greater than anything you can gain from growing locally sourced food. So, a vegan on a velomobile then? :D

[@daysetx]

Where is energy invested in producing/shipping solar panels? ITS HUGE so minus mileage instead of adding

[@Barskor1]

A one-time energy investment shipping solar panels vs the never-ending cost to ship petrol what is better? Solar buy once good for decades, buy petrol burned up in a week.

[@MoDa87]

Dayset Iam buy panels made as close to home as possible.

[@volooooo]

I have an EUC and rarely use my car

[@futurecaredesign]

And he didn't even get into the efficiency and comfort of recumbent bicycles!

[@specialist-in-tech]

Not even !

[@4nz-nl]

And then there's velomobiles, too ;)

[@kylecouture1917]

This guy is too extreme. You cannoy survive off of 100% locally grown food. Literally impossible. Just ride a bike people. Thats enough. Also, animals like squirels and deer have different nutritional requirements than us.

[@kylecouture1917]

@OWN WAY dude... you cannot. Im vegan im well aware of the fact that we can only eat plants. But you cannot thrive off of food only grown in your area. You need to be constantly importing and exporting foods for consistency. Or else 1 natural disaster will leave youe entire community starving. You are wrong. I stand by my position. this guy is extreme. If the whole world just went vegan and did nothing else, the environment would be a non issue. Pollution from transportation only makes up 12% of pullotion. Thats miniscule.

[@ddrhazy]

The Nissan Leaf and the Renault Twizy are very efficient vehicles if you fill them up to maximum capacity. When you consider what those vehicles do vs. what some of the best e-bikes do, their value is astounding. No matter what sort of e-bike you get, you will be limited to 20 mph on sidewalks because of safety and regulations. Perhaps if legislation changes and we can increase e-bike's motor power to 2 HP it will make more sense to commute with e-bikes in American cities. But what about highway commuting? Let's say we made an e-bike with 4 HP and no pedals. It's a glorified motorcycle but much lighter than anything in production(the zero SR is about 530 lbs). Are you going to feel safe piloting a 100 pound bicycle that can go highway speeds on the highway?

[@4nz-nl]

That would be totally fine if you remove the 3000-4000-5000-6000 pound cars I see in America. Actually, nobody and nothing is safe from those, except people inside one of those exact same vehicles and only if things don't go too fast.

[@chainsherlock6268]

🔥🏆

[@mickylefj1800]

Brilliant, rare take on key fundamentals. Well done!

[@thatguyonabicycleofconsurv3908]

Where does this guy live?

[@franzzrilich9041]

I am retired, age 70. In the 1890s wealthy people could afford to move out of cities, using interurban trolley cars, and live in secluded rural enclaves. This since has consistently been the goal of many Americans, and cars have made it possible for far more of us. Currently, and into the future, new jobs will be created in low-density ruralesque places, and given their productivity, the new workplaces will not employ many people, and better paid specialists will move about a circle enclosing a thousand square miles. This means mass commuting will be less frequent in the future. Because of harsh political and other realities in the US, it is not possible to Amsterdamize US cities. By the way, many areas in the US have harsh winters and summers--electric bikes are not practical for over half the year. As regards commuting, I planned routes for my car that used the least populated rural roads, and seldom met with traffic jams. However, all of this is pointless discussion. Energy prices will soon collapse, and we shall have flying cars that are quiet. Everything will change.

[@achalhp]

Why always it is electrifying personal transportation, why not electric trams and trains? Trams and trains do not need battery breakthroughs. They just take electricity from a overhead line. Electric Bicycles are good as long as they weigh less than the passenger they carry. Payload to weight ratio matters a lot in case of road transportation.

[@NicholasShanks]

Trams and trains are already electric (in the developed world)!

[@shizuokaBLUES]

Why ? Because humans are selfish and egocentric and want Social distance . It’s all an illusion of course but we humans don’t want to be sharing space with each other. Oh and we are f-ing greedy. That’s it.

[@sunmarsh]

Trams and trains take lots of money and lots of people’s support, and lots of time to implement. These are steps people can take independently, right now.

[@fwefhwe4232]

Indian railways will be 100% electric by 2023

[@4nz-nl]

Trams and trains are less time-efficient because they don't go from A to B, you need to walk from A to C, take tram to D, train to E, tram to F, and then walk to B. Also, nobody is forcing you to grab the battery. I prefer my bicycle without E and still commute 33 miles without hassle.

[@scoremat]

Living in Colorado... you meet a lot of people who love the smell of their own farts. Southpark did an episode on it

[@vincewhite5087]

Copenhagen & Amsterdam is very flat. Ebike can help the rest of us.

[@4nz-nl]

Yup, there's nothing wrong with using E-power to get up hills. Not only Amsterdam is flat by the way, most of the Netherlands is, as is Northeast Germany. When I go there, I still don't have E-power, but usually going uphill slow is compensated fairly okay by flying downhill ;)

[@mikefranz1056]

I love u, Zack, Finally I've found somebody who's proved by his reasoning similar to mine that I'm not an idiot. Oppose to Zack's talk, Elon Musk's jabber makes me puke.

[@weenisw]

Mike Franz Elon recently pivoted his goals for the Boring Co to prioritize peds and bikes/transit before his car tubes goal.

[@specialist-in-tech]

Musk makes everyone hit their puke point, pretty darn quickly.

[@tonyk8368]

I wouldn't factor the food that people eat into this equation, because people are going to eat food regardless of whether or not they bike, and I don't think they'll eat more food if they bike more. At most, it would be a negligible increase that wouldn't be noticeable.

[@specialist-in-tech]

He's talking about LOCALLY grown food. In otherwords, the food you are eating now, comes from 100's or thousands of miles away, burning up tons of fossil fuel to get it to you, which means your equivalent MPG that he has calculated for you, is far worse with food grown far away, than food grown locally. There is already a HUGE push in America for locally grown food, because it is healthier, many times uses a less toxic pesticides, or fully organic, and local grown and sourced farm produce or meat is in VERY high demand. This is not coincidental being in parallel with the explosive growth of ebike use, that is worldwide, and not just in Europe, or China, or now just emerging in the US. More than half of the US citizenry is morbidly obese. Not just overweight. Its morally reprehensible. People need to get off their hind ends, and get moving. Being in a car is just about SITTING. You are sedentary, and you are gaining weight. you are eating FOOD in your car, and its probably from Wendy's McD's, or far worse. Its fried, and fattening. and processed. So Americans are basically whittling their lives away being in cars. Or sitting at home in front of their PC. They are mostly weak, out of shape, and as they get older, their health costs to them and society goes through the roof. Its just not possible for America to sustain this unhealthy living. They can certainly try though, and die young doing it.

[@Beery1962]

The idea that a cyclist is not as efficient because his food has to be delivered is complete nonsense. A bicycle is far more efficient than any other mode of personal transport because everyone has to eat anyway, and a bike keeps you fit when other forms of transport (except walking) do not. A bike saves you from doctor visits (and all the wasted energy that goes along with them) that a sedentary lifestyle (including the sedentary lifestyle enjoyed by electric bike users) mandates.

[@devinquince5335]

Depends on the e-bike user and what they do. I use an e-bike with PA only and pull 200 lbs of rescued food, etc. several times a month, if not more. Nothing sedentary about that.

[@knarf_on_a_bike]

I don't buy the mpg conversion for a bicycle. I ride 300km a week. I don't eat the equivalent of 2/3 of a gallon of gasoline over and above a "normal" diet. You can do all the calculations you want, but riding my bike costs zero in fuel. And that's not even taking into account the health benefits of riding my bike, with only my legs powering it. Electric bikes are great, if that's what you want. But don't tell me an ebike is cheaper to run than a bicycle.

[@STruple12]

Oh but you do, it's simple thermodynamics. And that food needs to be transported somehow. On top of that you wear out chains, which need a lot of energy to be made. You wear out tires and .. same story with most of those parts. And fuelling and e-bike (just to run it) is far more efficient than fuelling just the human to run a normal bike. But yeah, the energy difference of making that battery and motor are on a completely different level.

[@4nz-nl]

If you ride 300 km a week, you should also know that your diet has spiked quite a bit (or you're in the process of losing a lot of weight at the moment, in which case... you ate all those "gallons" before). I had an 800 km week last week and I ate half the local supermarket. Depending on where you source your food, you should also calculate the transport of that extra food, which is what he is doing. I'm not saying it's 100% accurate, but at least he's accounting for it in his calculation instead of dismissing it like most do.

[@tomsherman2350]

he talks of the costs of the food being shipped as an mpg factor for the pedestrian or biker. how much energy is required to refine oil and ship it through a pipeline.? he did not count that as an energy cost for the car.

[@fwefhwe4232]

because the oil itself is the energy souce. just like food. car is a machine to transform that fuel into energy. like human body.

[@lockhughes]

Select "Thumb Down" if you are now or ever have been in an institution for the mentally ill.

[@donaldendsley6199]

While not a cure all exercise is very important in treating depression related mental illness. Having seen mental healthcare from both the patient and provider stand points one of my main issues with how we do mental health in this country is that many mental health programs don't offer exercise programs.

[@mmmarvel]

Let's see, I live in Houston and one end of the city to the other (east to west or north to south) is 65 miles and that is not including the suburbs. Like I'm going to bike from point A to point B - well a few folks do it, but not most. When it's 90+ degrees out for 90 days straight (at night it can drop all the way to 78) yeah, I'm not thinking walking or biking is a real option. Downtown we actually have a LARGE underground tunnel system so people can get from building to building without having to deal with the heat. Gridlock??? It's a pain, but considering that my work is 30 miles away, I'll sit in traffic WITH my AC going and listen to my tunes. It's one of the facts that I live with and accept to be able to live in a nice house and work at a place where my job is (relatively) secure and they pay me enough to live. The man is WAY too anal about mpg - but hey to each his own. And I'm not thinking an electric bike is going to work for me.

[@magnusonf1]

carpool? On days that I do not ride my bike, I carpool with four other colleagues. This means that I will only have to use my car one day a week. The problem is people don't want to leave their comfort zone to better the environment. Yes, you might have to make sacrifices if you want change. "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" Albert Einstein Thank god there are people out there that are "WAY" too anal about mpg, or else we would be much worse off then we already are.

[@sebastianpentecost6358]

just spitballing here, but what about extending and modifying that downtown pedestrian tunnel system for bikes and e-bikes? (A subterranean bike path network would actually draw me as a tourist, with my foldable, packable tandem.) And bike paths that, where they can't be shaded by trees, are shaded by breezeways with solar panels on top? I know almost nothing about Houston, but I feel like it gets mentioned a lot in lists of population centers that are being affected by sea level rise and increased storm activity. Expensive infrastructure change looks a whole lot cheaper when weighed against the cost of protecting coastal cities from climate change.

[@mmmarvel]

Sebastian Pentecost Several problems with that scenario - first, expanding the tunnels would be difficult, it's in DOWNTOWN meaning LOTS of gas lines, sewer lines, water lines, underground electric lines almost impossible to expand either wider or extending on to the line. Second, with regards to the sea level rising, what happens when water comes in a covers a street? Yup, the areas under the streets (read tunnels) get flooded first and usually are the last to get cleared.

[@taufikabidin412]

That is the effect of car and the refusal to do high density urbanism

[@stephenmoore7882]

See what you have here is just excuses for not wanting to ride a bike. If you wanted to do it you would regardless of any other factor. I live in Ireland, it rains nearly everyday. It's windy nearly everyday. It's cold nearly everyday, but I ride a bike to work because I want to.

[@donparsons1237]

Why not add in the carbon foot print of materials too make a e-bike and all of its components on top of the tires, metal and plastics ontop of replacement of the next units. All of a sudden a regular pedal bike is 20 mpg, ebike is 7 mpg once all the numbers are added up. can a bike feed the world of 8 billion humans. Nope, ain't going happen. can a bike mine the materials too make a bike... Nope. can a bike build an electrical grid... the answer is no. Visit a Copper or Lithium Mine,,, how about a steel plant or chemical factory where carbon fibers are made or rubber plant. Yuppers,today's new world is just as inefficient as the old world.add up the numbers. A simple bike is 2 too 3 X's worse for the environment since they lack efficiency on top of extra foods too make it happen. I guess pepole forget where materials and the processes come from too make stuff Add in the inefficiency of a pedal bike,,, ebike and human the numbers work out too 3 too 4 mpg of the life time of bike and human. Oh well, at least you tried to stress the point but the majority of humans won't fall for fake numbers. just saying is all. And by the way, a rail system carbon foot print w/ replacement of trains, rail line "the whole grid " , and energy too run it is 2 to 3 mpg. Pepole won't follow fake number's of a unrealistic fantasy.

[@billcichoke2534]

Interesting how the PRODUCTIVITY in American cities--AS THEY'RE SET UP--isn't addressed. Portland Oregon was a pretty little growing but balanced city...until the Berkleyites and bicycle nazis got hold of things. Now, all sorts of trendy shops and the Light Rain choo-choo and bike-only restricted roads and homeless camps later, and the city of Portland can't make ends meet even with pot dispensaries all over the place. This is the sustainability agenda in practice, and a city rotting on its foundations to show for it.