Tegoi vs Pankration

[@anaray9000]

Well done man!!!

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@anaray9000 thanks mom, I’m literally only able to make these goofy ass video because of your love and support!

[@justas423]

This is the kinda of nerd shit I love!

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@justas423 saaaame, research blew balls in school, but as it turns out, researching stuff you actually care about is kinda fun!

[@Groomsman]

This was my first introduction to Tegoi and it was very interesting

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@Groomsman glad I could be the one to introduce you to Tegoi in a way that you enjoyed!

[@bogdantudor2846]

LETS GO YOUR BACK! The research as alway on point!

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@bogdantudor2846 thank you homie! I always try to keep my finger on the pulse

[@boltgamer7]

Yo bro keep doing these videos they're helping out so much I'm soon planning to join the Army and trying out for a Special Forces and trying to get stationed in Japan whether I make it or not; and I absolutely planning to learn all the types of unknown ancient martial arts in the world prevalently in Asia My dream is to study as many martial arts as needed and trying to create a martial art style similar to the Niko style from Kengan and your videos are helping a ton for research on martial arts that less known🙏

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@boltgamer7 I’m happy to hear you enjoyed the video! I’m glad you’re interested in research on these ancient martial arts, it really is interesting! Good luck with your career pursuit as well

[@terra-vail5025]

Great video dude, I came across your channel recently and it's all been 1-2-1 with my interests. Have you read Convict Colosseum? It's an on-going Kengan inspired manga over on the Kengan subreddit, the art while initially quite amateurish improves very quickly and it's fight choreography, characters and gimmicks are all top tier. I don't know if you're still doing requests for Combat Clarification but if you are i'd like to ask if you'd be willing to do one on Beatdown and Tomahawk from Convict Colosseum.

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@terra-vail5025 welcome to the channel, Terra! Glad to have you! I’ll check out Convict Colosseum and see if it’s anything I’m interested in

[@terra-vail5025]

@@RedFoxGrappler Cheers dude! Hope you enjoy it.

[@Uncle_Tijikun]

Great video man. Tegoi boi vracked me up 🤣🤣🤣

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@Uncle_Tijikun thanks homie, glad you liked it! It was a little different from my norm, but seeing the positive reception makes me excited for future projects!

[@fidomf7922]

Finally, it's here. Thanks dude!

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@fidomf7922 no problem!

[@MrAlepedroza]

You claim that the ancient Grecorromans had no concept of Aiki/Internal, but that's arguably not true considering we have feats such as those performed by Milo of Croton, who could stand over an oiled metal disk and not be pushed away from it by people, or boxers whose arms could not be pushed down by anyone in standing position, etc. We also know the ancient greeks stressed breathing exercises and breathing meditation in their practices. Now, obviously its not definitive evidence, but it suggests that internal fighting principles were not unheard off by the Greeks, specially considering Pankration was spread all throught Central Asia by Alexander's conquests.

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@MrAlepedroza I have no doubt that they had a strong understanding of internal energy and dynamics, or at least some would’ve, but not only do I not think that that would be average knowledge to most Pankratiasts, but the level of mastery would be night and day, it would be like pitting the average Aikidoka of today against a Greco Roman Gold Medalist (the Aikidoka would get eaten alive), and that would be under the exceptional circumstances that this Pankratiast was one with internal knowledge and could actually apply the mechanics to combat, which we see from modern Aikido is exceptionally difficult

[@gentlethrow1705]

Honestly 10/10 vid!

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@gentlethrow1705 thanks gentle! Maybe for the next vid we can talk about it in the Discord and I can get yall’s opinions

[@duncanmcokiner4242]

One reason Pankration's boxing may be lacking is that closed fists to the head were likely discouraged. Most shots to the head we see in their art are actually palm strikes. Some theorize closed fists to the head were illegal in most venues, but it's not known for sure.

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@duncanmcokiner4242 oh! That makes sense, thanks for letting me know! I can see why closed fist strikes to the head were at least discouraged, if not to protect the target’s brain then to at least protect the striker’s hands😂

[@duncanmcokiner4242]

@@RedFoxGrappler It would also explain the near non-existent records of any injuries. AMO Pankration has a lot of interesting information on it, as he's advocating for reestablishing it as an Olympic event.

[@Theodoesit]

@@duncanmcokiner4242 AMO is the goat

[@MrAlepedroza]

It is possible some local rulesets allowed for closed fists to the head, but when it came to the big panhellenic games where devotiom to the gods was prioritized, they were barred. Now, Roman pankratiasts did allow for closed fists to the head and gloves, so they created an even more open dynamic there.

[@MrAlepedroza]

@RedFoxGrappler Also, I don't understand why you claimed Pankration's arm strikes were inferior to Tegoi. Judging by what we have, they allowed for open hand strikes, hammer strikes from above and under, closed fists (Roman era/local rulesets?), forearm strikes, elbows, etc.

[@vitoralexandre8325]

i would love to see a BJJ videos... Brasil loves Redfox

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@vitoralexandre8325 I’ll definitely do one, I still have your request for BJJ from the Niko Style video, but that was a pretty recent request compared to a lot of other requests I’ve gotten, so it might take awhile

[@kmmahmud7177]

​@@RedFoxGrapplercould you please make a vid demonstrating the techniques with a partner.

[@Ash-rc4ns5df4k]

Great job man ❤

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@Ash-rc4ns5df4k thanks Ash, I’m happy to hear you liked this since it was a little out of the norm!

[@Ash-rc4ns5df4k]

@RedFoxGrappler man you're the only youtuber that mentions the difference and the connections between the ancient Japanese martial arts and the Greek martial arts in a simple way

[@saorlathesurly]

fantastic video!

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@saorlathesurly thanks homie, wouldn’t have ever thought to do something like this without your suggestion!

[@aldokurti3272]

Lets fucking GOOOOOO.

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@aldokurti3272 Aldo, the homie, glad to see you liked the video!

[@aldokurti3272]

@@RedFoxGrappler No problem man.Keep up the great work.If you need any help on Shen's breathing technique, hit me up I'll do my best to help you out.

[@shinjiikari1021]

care to have some links to the books you mentioned? or sources as to the manga panels e.g. chapters, this way i could go try to learn some tegoi or pankration

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@shinjiikari1021 which ones in particular? A lot of the Tegoi ones are in my prior video about the History of Sumo, but did you have any other specifically in mind?

[@shinjiikari1021]

@@RedFoxGrappler the source that the images such as the ones found in 5:41 are found

[@nappyheaded]

How in the world did you find an ancient picture of two japanese women grappling?

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@nappyheaded literally hours of Googling different variations of “Tegoi”, “Ancient Jujutsu”, “Koryu Jujutsu”, “Japanese Jujutsu”, etc etc lmao

[@nappyheaded]

1:49 incase anyone is wondering.

[@nappyheaded]

that explains the other crazy pictures you found besides that lol.

[@753studios6]

I study sumo throws and holds for my mma training and they are fun and nobody excepts my 5’10 self to be able to take them down.

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@753studios6 that’s the ticket my dude! The untapped stuff Sumo has to offer from its 2,000 year history of slamming someone into the ground is just astounding, happy to hear it’s serving you well homie

[@ronselporter4739]

Tegoi as in proto-Sumo tegoi?

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@ronselporter4739 the very same!

[@moodyjunior867]

Made it within the first hour

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@moodyjunior867 that’s some real dedication there, I appreciate that and am glad you liked the video!

[@gnos1s171]

Ssumo is a primarily striking art? Wtf? Even in ancient sumo you could probably consider both of them a mix of grappling and striking with more of an emphasis on grappling

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@gnos1s171 this topic was covered extensively in my nearly hour long video explaining Ancient Sumo. TLDR: while it certainly had grappling in it initially, it had significantly more striking and wasn’t considered a Kumiuchi, a wrestling art, until 8 A.D. when it became a martial art used by the Japanese military, roughly 7 years after it was created

[@TheSlackerNamedJack]

I ain't even the most informed on it the most ancient versions of martial arts and even I know that like the oldest versions of sumo let you hit people in the face.

[@gnos1s171]

@TheSlackerNamedJack I never said it didn't. Try reading what I said again. I said "you couldprobably consider both of them a mix of striking and grappling with more of an emphasis on grappling", I never said the oldest version of sumo didn't let you strike the face. Learn to read.

[@gnos1s171]

@@RedFoxGrappler y'know what? That's fair, Once again, I knew it had striking but I still thought it was still mainly a form of folk grappling, potentially similar to something like Senegalese wrestling, which even has punches allowed, or like some of the folk styles of grappling from the UK like devon Wrestling which allow certain types of kicks, (mainly to the shin with the bottom of your foot) however, they are still considered grappling centered martial arts, but if it really wasn't even considered in the category of kumiuchi, or a type of mainly wrestling or grappling centered folk martial art then you make a pretty good argument as to why it would have been considered more of a striking heavy art, so again, fair point.

[@shinjiikari1021]

so tegoi was used by kanako to beat suwako...

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@shinjiikari1021 a precursory google search says that this is a Touhou thing? If so, you’re askin the wrong fella lol

[@shinjiikari1021]

@@RedFoxGrappler i m just making a dumb touhou reference :)

[@NUGGEt-243]

Damn I'm late

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@NUGGEt-243 better late than never my dude!

[@Sword-u6e]

Got video

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@Sword-u6e thanks!

[@cosmicredlanternkharnthebe520]

You missed on the striking on Pankrations portion kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGPZi3WtnMd8nZo

[@RedFoxGrappler]

@@cosmicredlanternkharnthebe520 eh, I knew there was likely more to it than I found in my research, but even considering that Pankranion may have slightly better striking than I first thought, that wouldn’t effect the Stand-Up category enough to change the outcome of that section, it’s roughly be a margin of error of, like, 3 points at most

[@cosmicredlanternkharnthebe520]

how though? If the striking was far more diverse along with its wrestling, while being charitable to non existent codified techniques?