TEKKEN 8 After One month TIER LIST

[@kazmaahr]

King mains in chat desperately trying to downplay lmfao

[@YiddishDancingClown]

Idk what they're smoking. I've been a King main since 3, he's stronger than he's ever been in any previous Tekken. I think I'd put him right outside top 5, but the argument definitely can be made he's top 5. DF2 being 13f now and ffn2 being +7 is ridiculous and covered his main weaknesses he had from 7.

[@lmCobraTate]

@@YiddishDancingClown “right outside top 5” 😂😂😂

[@DestroyedTheGame]

@@lmCobraTate he tried to sneak that in ☠️☠️

[@YiddishDancingClown]

@@lmCobraTate me putting him there isn't downplaying, I still think he's S tier, but characters like Drag and Ling are better than him right now.

[@deniantonius4208]

​@@lmCobraTate Jun, drag, feng, lee, xy is better than him tho. That makes him outside of top 5. He's up there with the likes of dvj, victor. You seem to want him in the top 5 desperately.

[@taco_sensei]

Nina is flying under the radar. SA knows her true power since he plays against Jodd and warningispam so much 😅

[@sakashimayokoshimahapofusagari]

yeah ive been saying nina has been underrated even in 7 but she just requires alot of work which is why we dont see her too much

[@taco_sensei]

@@sakashimayokoshimahapofusagari Yup and that's exactly what Knee said too. Nina has always been on the stronger side of characters, but demands quite a bit which means that dedicated specialists shine with her.

[@heroicsquirrel3195]

Ninas are scary, i just dunno how to fight her yet

[@Chameleon_daddi]

My thoughts exactly. Arslan cause here weak I believe. Probably capping

[@deanbrooks7297]

@@taco_senseishe doesn’t require much, she has some of the fastest jab strings in the game plus gun strings that push you to the wall and buffed chain throws.

[@anjrooo1]

Only thing about this tier list that affects all players universally, is Dragunov having his own tier lmao. It's true in the green ranks and all the way to the top.

[@majones117]

I see so many damn Drags it hurts.

[@Sharphe]

As a king player idk why people think his heat smash is fair that shit hits for more than rage arts and forces a mix on block. I will honestly take a bunch of nerfs for king as long as they buff his backdash its so ass lol

[@tryingtochangemyways5074]

Use his back spring move problem solve

[@Sharphe]

@@tryingtochangemyways5074 jaguar step is fun but I like Korean backdashing it looks cooler

[@jaapanui]

@@SharpheI agree. Plus if u do jag step u can be punished

[@whbig1848]

Nah don’t nerf king

[@Sharphe]

@@jaapanui yeah it's a good tool I use it forward for low crush

[@faisaalkamara4181]

i like how you leave space for nuance in your assessment. not too worried about outright calling stuff broken to be controversial or anything, just a pro’s thoughts on his experience with these characters playing the game. good vid

[@djangotur0910]

About Bryan 1+2,2 into heat burst launch: It‘s super weird and seems unintentional. If you set the practice dummy to techroll right, it will avoid the heat burst every time. But if you mash tech roll button after getting hit by 1+2, 2 you only avoid it sometimes. Seems to be a very specific timing to the tech roll or something.

[@HeartPliz]

Listening to chat's rebuttals is wild. X player makes x character look crazy. Orlynao

[@BlondeVoyage12]

Clickbait thumbnail... should have been "The only SUPER tier list"

[@SuperAkouma]

I wish I thought of that lol

[@ParodyAccount_]

@@SuperAkouma agreed, f hwoarang lol

[@nameputhpong9041]

That implies the need for non-super lists. Which is false. We only need this one list. This is the one.

[@grph1t3z]

@@ParodyAccount_cope

[@majones117]

All those people arguing about Drag is wild "Just duck and punish" like do they not know what a 50/50 is? The fact the other player in that clip had to guess the mix up or just die after being hit with 1 combo is fucking insane amounts of damage.

[@kennedymensah6270]

as a reina player i've really been feeling her getting stuck simply due to having to always take massive risks in order to mixup and generally for alot less reward

[@jetaime4431]

You don't, you have good mids, good + and good throws, so you don't need to use hellsweep that much but when you do you're very threatening, and you have so much options that you have constant mental +frames. Safe lowcruch, slow but good high rush, good punishment, good movement. She's hella good, and perfect right now, hope they won't change her 🙏

[@Natural_Order]

@@jetaime4431 Yea people don't realize shes more than just ff2 mixups and pressure. Poking around with her is way more effective once you reach a certain rank

[@kennedymensah6270]

i mean you aren't wrong when speaking on her mental game but simply due to the amount of people playing her once i got into ruler ranks basically nobody was unfamiliar with the matchup. which is honestly a good thing to expernece for once as ai played alot of low tiers in other games but the thing ive experinced is that the risk reward for her is a bit scewed when going for alot of mix especially in comparison to other characters. reina is def more than ff2 mix but its a massive part of the gameplan. i def think shes strong but it's just really annoying to have to take these big risky hellsweeps and launch punishable lows in order to ACTUALLY open someone up. her throws are good to make people duck but the situations where they're useful are when people are going to duck anyways post wr4 and heatsmash/ post sentai. and once we got you ducking her reward is high ONE time with heat dash but post that it takes one CRISPY hopkick to get a punish worth anything on duckers apart from 3+4 of course@@jetaime4431

[@kennedymensah6270]

the problem i get is that it almost feels lik i need to get a crapton of smaller wins in order to make a gameplan where i need multiple guesses to go right in order for it to even start. Reina can def run people over but thats just people who mash once patience and defense come into play i really struggle ngl if you got tips im down it just sucks sometimes especially when others have alot less risk with crazy reward@@jetaime4431

[@SuperAkouma]

Stop relying on ff2, it's a great move but you have to dig deeper to see the safer more rewarding options

[@henrynguyen4315]

King doesnt need backdash because he has that jaguar step anyway, just spin away

[@MrDyran21]

You can get hit easily spinning backwards but I get the idea

[@henrynguyen4315]

@@MrDyran21 kings gameplay revolves around getting close to setup throws anyway. Its the opponent thats trying to run from you as a king player LOL

[@shaolinprince777]

I agree about Nina's damage output in her combos being high, which I'm happy for, because that has always been the essence of what makes Nina strong since Tekken 3...until they nerfed her in recent Tekken games. However, I don't understand using Nina's d3,4,3 in the argument for her being S-tier. Yes, the 3rd hit can no longer be side stepped/walked, which is a buff that I'm happy for, but the 2nd hit is still easily duckable and launchable, which some high level players have trained themselves to do on reaction. The alternative mixup to the 2nd hit, d3,2 does minimal damage on hit and no longer launches, which is a nerf. So, no, it doesn't make sense to include her d3,4,3 in an argument for Nina being S-tier. The move is almost useless on high level, especially with d3,2 being nerfed. Also, I don't believe that her f2,1,4 string is hit confirmable. If it is, it's extremely difficult to hit confirm that, which makes it impractical. I would like to know some more reasons to include her in S-tier. I don't see her being S-tier at all. Maybe A+ tier, but not S-tier. Her pokes have been overrated since like forever. She's easily steppable/walkable to her left or your right, which makes her have to slow down her gameplay and risk being counter hit with quick moves when she goes for her homing moves.

[@MindGameArcade]

Agreed with everything, Nina definitely slept on. Xiaoyu is weird I haven't seen the broken stuff personally yet, and her only really good low is out of HYP so I have the feeling she is overrated. In heat you have to weather the storm a bit but it's manageable. In the neutral you can keep her out as usual. Lee B3,3 and wall damage wasn't mentioned :p I wasn't aware his movement was that bad, definitely need to test more. Like I did notice Lars backdash being better for example but in actual situations (evading with backdash) I don't really find cases where it's applicable except in the neutral where I feel it's not that big of a diff in the end. As opposed to Alisa's and Dragunov's backdash that are truly way better because you can evade & it feels insane in the neutral

[@battlerushiromiya205]

Xiaoyu is broken and is way too safe

[@Cal3000]

@@battlerushiromiya205she’s easy to punish and don’t have many strong lows and has short reach. Most of the times to beat her, you just need to space and punish. She’s the easiest character to beat when you know her kit. Most players refuse to learn her kit and eat stuff they shouldn’t most the time. She isn’t that good in the end.

[@battlerushiromiya205]

@@Cal3000 Oh god here we go " just learn the matchup bro" your wrong on so many levels i cant even be asked to explain since you just made up random facts "she's easiest to beat when you learn her kit" no she isn't keep doing mental gymnastics cant wait till she's nerfed

[@battlerushiromiya205]

@@Cal3000 I took the bait well done " easy to punish" i feel like a fool for taking that serious. I give it to you

[@Cal3000]

@@battlerushiromiya205 name anything you struggle with against her and I can tell you how to easily to beat or counter it.

[@humansaresilly2465]

Great video, man. Claudio back 1 could be his only move and he would be around B tier I feel like

[@aetherna976]

king being able to cancel/block on jaguar sprint is OP now, but I think they should just make it to where its only applicable to F 3+4 (Jaguar sprint Raw) not on blocked heat smash and not on uf3+4 on hit. Jaguar sprint is very easy to deal with, the only concern you have with it really is the RKO or the 1 or 3 option, (nobody uses 4 in my experience at least) with his RKO being 23f its very easy to react to and when he does do it after jaguar sprint you can see sparks coming out of his hands, so its not as good as a 50/50 tool as one might think.

[@Golden_BOI]

I think also what stops Jin being top tier in this game is two things. Zen Stance is a lot weaker in Tekken 8 compared to Tekken 7, the frame trap is weaker, the mixup is slower and weaker and the power crush is horribly bad because its so slow it can be jabbed and then ducked. The other big reason is Jin is straight up the weakest character in the game with heat. He literally gets nothing in heat, Omen is good at the wall but gets very little reward and in neutral Omen is trolling, half the time when you parry with Omen the parry hitbox is so small it wiffs and they punish you with a launcher for you using the parry well, its so weak youre better to never use it. Compare that to other characters strong mixups and buffed moves in heat.

[@janelippert8033]

Bryan entersthe chat. Mans supposed to be a counterhit goat

[@tahubob]

As a new player and a Zafina main, thank you for giving me hope

[@SunlessSoul505]

The up play on Zafina is wild lol

[@Fac0999]

Your absolutely right about Jin he's just ok and predictable

[@TrueYankeeFan]

Hearing your King take was refreshing... I succeeded in getting my friend into Tekken with me (he's started with Tekken 8 and I only played a bit of Tekken 7 prior) and he's already a higher rank than me, but he plays King so I don't feel as bad lol

[@GDtornado]

Thats a little bit of a excuse. I play mainly steve and lars and my steve is better and a mighty ruler so it can be done if u train properly

[@jackhanma2342]

@@GDtornado How is it an excuse? King players just win by getting 2 mixups and a heatsmash, because his damage is too high. Nah man this character takes away so much options for you and forces you to play perfect defense.

[@henrynguyen4315]

Jin doesnt need a hellsweep when he has d+2

[@NurtoriasTheNurtastic]

Nuh. It launches only on ch. Hellsweep used to launh on normal hit in t7

[@henrynguyen4315]

​​@@NurtoriasTheNurtastichell sweep is also launch punishable and jins hellsweep doesnt lead to a launcher like devil jins only on certain stages, doesnt lead to good oki or vortex, doesnt hit grounded and doesnt high crush. In its current state, rarely youll use hellsweep over d+2. Theres just too much utility in d+2. Fast, ch launcher that high crushes, gives good frames on hit, not launch punishable against most characters and hits grounded.

[@NurtoriasTheNurtastic]

Touche. But I still use hellsweep sometimes just as mix up for a round secure, would be nicer if it launched on hit tho

[@ShamirBRO]

No lol​@@NurtoriasTheNurtastic

[@DarkTchador]

Pour nina, elle peut egalement enlever la barre grise avec ses chaine de choppe ou b1+2, et elle est tres complete (des homing a différentes vitesse pour varier les timing, des counter sur chaque frame (10f, 12f, 13f, 14, un jeu de choppe complet, de tres bon outils pour adapter ses combo...)

[@thomasschmidt1452]

About Xiaoyu: 1) She has not a -12 lauching sweep, it's -12 low poke. To become a laucher u need to charge it. And when charging u can be interrupted even if u have +17. And if u see Xiaoyu charging her stance - just block low or do a low parry. 2) F21 into stace is not + on block - it's lauch punishable. Almost every 15 frames kicks, elbows, knees etc will interrupt any of her moves and she can't blocking in Hypnotist stance. And also it's not high-high, first hit is mid - but yeah the second hit is jailed. 3) She is still vulnerable to SS. In T8 she is even more vulnerable cause Harada took away her homing laucher. Just SSL and guard crouching in standart stance and SSR and guard crouching in backturn or any other stances.

[@animes_latestamvs653]

No f21 is not launch punishable in stance, it’s nuetral and can be canceled into a block for any launcher they throw out. She is not vulnerable to sidestep due to her being able to realign with any transition. Phoenix realigns. Cali roll realigns, as well as back turn sidestep realigns. She’s absolutely busted

[@SuperAkouma]

1) it's a -12 launching sweep. Stop. Also just block low ? She has a safe knockdown/wallsplating mid from the same situation 2) you can't just press anything since there's a follow-up and also she can just block 3) If she needs to track me she will, realigning or changing your offense to catch sidesteps is not hard. Saying just sidestep is terrible advice against any character, it is never that simple

[@kray7920]

Average Ling Downplayer:

[@thomasschmidt1452]

@@SuperAkouma 1) U need to make 3 steps in Hypno to make this poke a laucher. If your opponent let you do that, you don't need a laucher - you can kill him with any string of any character. Even with her heat activated u need 1 step to make and it's easy to interrupt. For example Feng's b4 will interrupt Hypno 3 with one step even if Xiaoyu has +9. If you has a wall behind your back while fighting Xiaoyu - you are dead. In any Tekken game Xiaoyu was one of the best wall pressurer (maybe Brayan is scarier but she is no doubt ton 5). And Hypno 2 is stepable on both sides. If Xiaoyu activates her heat and go into the mix, so just SSR her Hypno stance 2 and then do a low parry. It can beat most of her options. 2) It's a guessing. If there was always an OS on any situation - Xiaoyu would be a garbage character. But if you try to press, hopkick is the best option you have. 3) Every character can realign. It's not a valid argument cause I also may argue that SWL against Kazuya is useless - he can realign with crouchdashes and EWGF me. If the character doesn't have a threatening homing move or his key moves don't trecking well on both sides, he is vulnerable to SS.

[@thomasschmidt1452]

​@@animes_latestamvs653 f21 into stance is -2 on block but Hypno cancel is too slow. If you try to cancel the stance, even 23 frame punisher will hit you. 1d2 into the stance has the same framedata. You can't just go into Hypnotist and mix people without the risk to be launched. But without stance transition it is safe. Realignment is not an ideal option. Kazuya's wavedash also realigns but we can't say that Kazuya is not vulnerable to SWL. If your key moves don't track to the weak side and you don't have a threatening homing, you are vulnerable to sidesteps.

[@harrrieee]

imo asuka’s damage isn’t crazy, she mostly gets 67 off of df2 in the open or 72 if you can land df2 into f,f4, which is similar to what a lot of other characters get. her wall carry is nothing special and her wall combo with and without tornado is slightly below average

[@noble0155]

Law felt good playing him. I kinda figured he'd be that high. Agreed, fuck hwarang. I don't like him either

[@blackd3213]

Ty_tk just confirmed that Bryan taunt is not guaranteed after heat dash

[@Monkey_Tree]

Taunt is 28 frames, heat dash is +17

[@lasadil2865]

He talked about heat dash into the wall where it does the wall crush animation

[@Monkey_Tree]

@@lasadil2865 oh youre right. it seems the taunt is guaranteed

[@Monkey_Tree]

hey black, do you have a link to ty_tk confirming ? or was it on stream

[@Edicted.]

You can jump jab to avoid the taunt but this loses to immediate B4.

[@deanbrooks7297]

Kazuya is definitely not on the same level as Jin, knock it off!!

[@inhumanrhino2552]

That's what I'm saying

[@adamdickerson2762]

Kazuya seems like he is strictly as good as the player uses him.. if that makes sense he is kinda difficult

[@Heihachiwan]

SUPER AKOUMA IS BACKKKK AYEEEEEE

[@jdesgames]

13:30 about Lars’ demon flip, be aware that this happens also with wake up option with spring kick. In T7 you can go under that, but now it has something that stops you to do that, so it’s an universal mechanic.

[@SuperAkouma]

I know it's a universal mechanic but he's abusing the hell out of it lol

[@tycinis]

Je suis le joueur de drag que tu as vu au MIXUP 2023 , sérieux oui drag est au top dans T8 mais putain quasi 5 ans de galère avec lui dans T7 , il avais plus rien sur la fin , ça fait du bien de le voir comme ça.

[@d.e5964]

Asuka is above c tier most ppl I play on ranked just don't know how to use her for some reason

[@vortexeruption1434]

This tier list is accurate

[@bernardihope]

I thought it was just me when I felt like I was fighting a raid boss every time I fought against leroy(as Steve)

[@josesantiago2012]

As a king main they should make his heat smash do 50 damage. They should lower the amount of damage some of his jaguar sprint do, that’s to justify being able to stop and block. They should nerf hjs damage for counter hit back one. They should nerf a little bit of damage from down forward 2. They should remove some of his guaranteed kicks after certain throws. They should nerf ffn2 to knly give plus 1 on hit and nerf the counter hit damage to 38. Finally the they should buff muscle armor 🤣🤣🤣

[@zach4281]

I do think Devil Jin’s hell sweep isn’t as strong as people think. Everyone launches with it all the time when it’s majority recoverable damage. Definitely a game winner but not as useful until the second half of the round

[@TheUnique69able]

The tekken community is a bunch of idiots with not understanding of the game

[@exusiaii3691]

​@@TheUnique69able surely you understand it a whole lot more the superakouma and a bunch of other Tekken players

[@TheUnique69able]

@@exusiaii3691 yes I understand my main more than super akuma

[@BandaiSCUM]

​@@TheUnique69ableI smell bias lol

[@sweetshoez]

You actually didn’t talk about Lee that much. Would you mind giving more thoughts on the char im trying to figure out who to main. I know of Lee as a keep out, counter hit char but hearing he has bottom tier movement as a defensive character seems strange

[@SuperAkouma]

I didn't talk much about him here because he's my main so I talk a lot about him on stream already. I don't think of him as a defensive character, he's super good at rushdown especially with B3,3 now. His keepout remains top tier and can a lot of the time, make up for his bad movement. He has every kind of counter hit and evasion when needed with D2, ff4 and d3. He's great fun and worth playing but he's not gonna be Dragunov anytime soon

[@sweetshoez]

@@SuperAkouma ty for the thoughtful response, I really appreciate it. I just want perspective/what to expect out of a character bc I don't know all these things---not easy wins

[@nubesock5231]

You did my boy claudio dirty

[@alexiswiftrock]

As a claudio main, sigh...Shadow, thanks for holding it down

[@seantaylor5185]

Tekken 8. The game where we all downplay the characters we play lol

[@garrettcloud]

This is my first tekken and I picked Asuka as my main. After playing with other characters and playing a bunch of ranked I definitely feel she’s just not doing that much imo.

[@DavidLucian]

My mains in Tekken are Raven(I mainly use Raven because he resemble Naruto characters in his unorthodox fighting style approach and because he's very unique and authentic, he's my trump card back from T5) and I admit it that If you don't adapt to his matchup he can definitely be annoying to fight against him. Hwoarang and Jin( these two are like the symbol of Yin&Yang☯️ in my eyes, they were my mains when I was starting to play Tekken 3 for the first time many many years ago, I also like it to use Eddy Gordo as well because of his Capoeira style of fighting). My List of annoying characters that I don't like to encounter/face are: Jun, Victor, Azucena, Dragunov, Xiaoyu, King, Devil Jin, Reina(sometimes), Yoshimitsu, Feng, Jack8, Nina, Alisa and Lili. So almost the entire roster I know... 🤷🏻‍♂️😅🙆🏻‍♂️✌️

[@foxsteve9937]

kazuya is literally the same character he only got hellsweep and electrics to compensate nothing else... no poking , they even removed his sidestep 3 that i used to punish wakeup kicks because i can not use electric for fu**** everything since is a high

[@MJfp6lx]

Make a video on Steve’s downfall from SS+ 🎉to B tier

[@SuperAkouma]

I think there's better people to make that video but if no one does I'll keep it in mind

[@shads123]

I think their are 15 characters that can compete for top 5.

[@SuperAkouma]

I agree

[@Cawe_D]

Any Nina mains here? How does her f+2,1,4 launch? I tried every possible extension I couldn’t connect it, is this very time restrictive? Also I’m shocked he forgot to mention her 11frame heat engager 😂 I think out of all the S tiers here she deserves the most because nobody plays her and she’s very execution heavy.

[@SuperAkouma]

It depends on the region, I run into so many Nina's bro it's crazy

[@shaolinprince777]

A micro dash into d4,1 allows her to combo off CH f2,1,4. The timing is very strict.

[@Cawe_D]

@@shaolinprince777 I tried d4,1 it’s brutally time restrictive

[@shaolinprince777]

@@Cawe_D yeah exactly. That's another thing that Super Akouma fails to mention, and the fact that hit confirming f2,1,4 is not really practical. The Nina player would pretty much have to know you're gonna get hit by f2 on CH, because the hit confirmation window is so small.

[@Cawe_D]

@@shaolinprince777 I agree. Not gonna lie he pretty much made her look like OP, which is far from truth.

[@danielpereira8936]

Jun is a monster dude this is broken his use power of Love

[@edDbalaM]

reina is S and the rest very accurate

[@Arnuld15Governator]

Bump Jack, Asuka, and Claudio to A tier and move Leroy to C tier and I would agree with this tier list completely.

[@Tai182]

I wouldn't place Claudio below B probably the first tier list I've seen to rate him as C tier.

[@Rikitangoable]

he has dragunov level damage with lower execution, its crazy

[@guts1952]

⁠@@Rikitangoablebut that’s almost every character tho but most of them have better frames and more cheese stuff to get damage going Claudio doesn’t have all that

[@Ozneb_]

Trash lows- pretty much all of them launch punishable and risky Below average pokes. His already slow df1 became more negative on block and so did his generic 1 2. His d2 2 also became -1 on hit. His fast mid option b3 has no range. Nerfed a lot from tekken 7- got rid of key moves(low launcher in starburst and one of his best mids). Made 4 3, b3 3, 3 2 3, b4 2, uf3, and f3 no longer counter hit launchers. Made b2 and ff22 no longer give star burst. Small move list- becomes very predictable. Top tier player can easily can duck and launch some of Claudio’s strings ie df3 2, 4 3, ff2 2, b4 2.

[@HashiramaSells]

The raven issue is just learning his back stance. But ravens heat move is lovely . i love backing up blocking then when they run at me launching my shadow clones 😂😂

[@perriah3865]

Some people in chat desperately trying to argue dragunov isn't top 1 after being handfed a clip of him 100-0ing someone in basically one combo is crazy to me. Like damn, I wonder who's been abusing him for free ranks lmaoo

[@user-gj6ey5xv3d]

Damnnn I thought Jack was around A tier. Everyone was hyping him up at the beginning of the game

[@theshillpill6937]

Everyone calling for Jack damage nerfs too

[@guts1952]

@@theshillpill6937he does have some crazy damage tho let’s be real but I think he needs that to counteract all of his downside being a big body character and all

[@theshillpill6937]

@@guts1952 Reina has 80-90 combo damage with no heat. Most I’ve seen with Jack is around mid 70. If he has damage that is higher than what it should be, for a character that is big bodied and has the worst sidestep, then yes, I can see why people would be complaining, but his damage seems to be balanced.

[@mehmetvursavas5922]

Jack is fine, they shouldn't touch him or give him a slight buff

[@guts1952]

@@theshillpill6937 he does get crazy damage at the wall you get around 80-90 on wall with just the regular bnb with decent carry and you can win most fights in 2 interaction (grab,launch) per round if they don’t play it safe

[@Yoppppol]

Yes Finally a tier list that I can agree, Dragunov having his one only own tier himself 😂

[@wendysbrian1]

"The only correct".... now that's courage. ;)

[@ahmadkhateeb6585]

thank you for the great video, but what safe low that has been nerfed for jack? can anyone tell?

[@SuperAkouma]

FC db1 and there was another low kick, can't remember the input

[@ls6yeah]

lol I just saw the thumbnail for this, nice one 🤣

[@Nomdro]

"Alisa got no strings" Meanwhile Alisa - ub4, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 3+4, 3, 2, 2 😂

[@MexicanUppercuts]

Lee’s inconsistent combos are so frustrating to deal with. Especially his heat engage whiffing after WS2, 3

[@Hachijo3GS]

Try Kazuya’s combos

[@guts1952]

@@Hachijo3GSwdym? Kazuya combos are able to be consistent done while lee can whiff any second considering how many 1 frames he has in almost every combo

[@Hachijo3GS]

@@guts1952 You are taking the term consistent to a whole different meaning. That’s human error bud, literally Kazuya’s combos just don’t connect at times even when you do it properly.

[@exusiaii3691]

​@@Hachijo3GS Lee's combo after ws2,3 is still very inconsistent even in that meaning

[@Ty-oe4dr]

​@@Hachijo3GSws 23 into heat burst will whiff regardless of timing

[@maskedfreak5664]

I just want to say Kazuya have no 15 launcher to punish a blocked rage art. (Think perfect electric can)

[@SuperAkouma]

EWGF is possible no need for perfect PEWGF it's harder than other characters though

[@p-brane8251]

The problem is that ewgf can't be buffered so to launch a -15 move with ewgf you have to start the input almost as soon as you recover. Unfortunately the blockstun is different for every rage art. Even the best Kaz players in the world don't regularly attempt to punish RA with ewgf. So unless you lab when to electric after everyone's rage art your best punish is 2+4 grab into df2.

[@foxsteve9937]

@@p-brane8251 we need an easy launcher we can not use electric for absolutely everything because sometimes we need to punish with a mid , or we need his old df1,2 back

[@maskedfreak5664]

@@foxsteve9937 what was so special about the old version?

[@loto7197]

Kaz players are taking a while to realize that he's all about 50/50 and oki in t8... instead of doing an inconsistent combo they should be setting up Oki, floats etc and reading wake up options. I think if they truly realized how much they have simplified his gameplay they wouldnt be too keen on t8

[@GodsMakar]

His Oki is okay but other characters have better and then some.

[@G-R-IE-IE-D]

Hi there I’m Kazuyas Defense Attorney: There is no Kazuya player that thinks Kazuya is about anything other than 50/50 and oki with a side of electrics. Combos: There are a lot of Kazuya players doing super hard inconsistent combos for sure, but in T8 his bnbs are actually just inconsistent in general. If you go watch the streams of every best Kazuya worldwide everyone is dropping basic bnbs. Keisuke, CDP, legit everyone. That’s not even considering the fact that you have to switch combos per character your fighting.

[@p-brane8251]

The inconsistency in Kaz combos comes from df1 df2 tornado sometimes whiffing. The hardest match viable combo for me is double electric > combo filler > df1 df2 tornado. Believe it or not, having 2 just frames in your staple combo is relatively easy. Most Kaz players aren't going for brutally difficult combos. It's just that df1 and df2 sometimes lacks the frames to land. Also every serious Kaz main, knows that Kazuya is at his strongest when applying his 50/50 and Oki.

[@loto7197]

@@G-R-IE-IE-D A lot of Kaz mains prioritize combo damage over Oki, you can see this since t7, every one goes for max dmg. Nobody is going for combos that have oki friendly enders unless it's at the wall. I watched some of your Kaz videos and you dont go for Oki either

[@luckygoat7344]

In summary: he's worse than he was in tekken7, you constantly have to be 4 steps ahead, you need crazy movement and execution for simple moves. He's below average. You might as well just play other Mishima's that are less difficult but will reward you a lot more like Reina or Jin.

[@LUX711]

King is only really strong now bc throwing is much better in 8 than it was in 7. That’s all it is.

[@President_Shin]

Nina is a monster, but zafina in anything but bottom is blasphemous lol

[@thealldayspecial]

Yeah that's about par for course for Raven, always been about beating the player and being terrified by the rare people who play him like there's a million bucks on the line.

[@tonyno9614]

Love hearing the thoughts, super inflated runtime due to him having to spoonfeed chat the most basic premise of the conversation- "it's not final yet, it's not final yet, it's not final yet."

[@ssgcheddar5785]

King had no counterplay if you J Sprint and someone did rage art.... you just get blown up! Not anymore 😂 Im sorry Im 42 and Ive been maining King since Tekken 1 in Arcades so I finally can have some true fun! I do agree hes S though

[@RaWMajkeL]

How about Eddy in a current state of the game? Also S tier?

[@SuperAkouma]

I don't know yet but he's looking strong

[@dspursuer]

as a Dragunov player I agree db3+4 is busted, is basically a swiss knife of a move, you just never use the stomp since it covers literally every option I just want his identity as a momentum machine and his wall throw combo to stay, I don't mind the other nerfs as long as he doesn't join leeroy or sink into the depths of his tekken7 self

[@p-brane8251]

This is the best tier list I have seen. I'm glad to see someone respecting Nina; she's an absolute menace. As a Kaz main, I would probably cry and argue for Kaz at the bottom five, especially since bears are the same character. I would squeeze Jack and Steve above Kaz. I would probably also put Leroy straight at the bottom; he's just so gutted.

[@SeTTajke]

Jack is A for Anakin who makes him shine like an ultimate weapon

[@Kwuivery]

Yeah Jin parry is weaker now, sweep isn’t as strong, he even lost a lot of counter hit launchers and knockdowns, a couple of moves aswell, he’s less intimidating, he’s still really good but to say he top5!is crazy

[@nobody-ho4yp]

who cares abt all the moves he lost when you got d2 and b4

[@wwk_]

why Jin players always downplay him? he now got d2, df2 which is safe homing mid that can follow to auto-electric, zen 4, zen 3+4, ff2, not just frame electrics now launch too and it all just came to my mind immediately. i'm sure there is much more to the new stuff and the old one is still very good

[@Kwuivery]

@@wwk_ homing? Bro u can ssr it

[@yasinstyl3r427]

Bryan has taunt, yes, but acting like taunt b4 is so easy...The bare minimum of bryans can do that. So saying that you get a free launcher is little too much

[@YougoogleY17]

Any mid level Bryan can have taunt b4 in their kit within a week.. TJU is hard because you have to be frame perfect on all 3 inputs. Taunt b4 takes much less time to land consistently

[@kahlt_]

It doesn't matter how easy or hard a technique is, once it's proven to be something practical at a high level it 100% is a part of that character's potential and it becomes something you have to evaluate. As it turns out, an unblockable that gives you a free launcher is pretty good, even if very few people can actually use it. A tier list isn't about or even useful to the majority of players, it's about in a match between top tier players of equal skill.

[@rawlandbogan1878]

Why do people have a problem of what the streamer has to say? It's his opinion based on his professional judgement, and he is one of the best players out there, you don't need to agree with him but show some respect

[@bigshorty4855]

There is no devil Kazuya? T5 was my last serious tekken. Thinking of trying this one.

[@SuperAkouma]

Kazuya can turn into devil kazuya mid round

[@wanashthegash]

Ling this high up but barely anyone plays her, all i fight is Kazuya, ling is super rare to fight against, i play her myself but i suck.

[@djptekken5465]

I just made a nina video about her being S tier yesterday aswell😂. This Teri list is "Super Akurate"

[@SpartanPeter700100]

If Dragunov has a tier of his own, so should Devil Jin, Feng and Jun, there is no way at least Feng or DJ have a tier of their own then. But on the remark of his DF1,4 counterhitting.. Literally everyone ducks it, and launches you for it if they do, this was already the case at the start of the game the DF1 extension is just super slow, it is a high risk extension that no top player uses, just ultra rarely. On the note of his Heat Smash bringing you to wallburst, when does this realistically ever happen, even more so at round start? Not downplaying.. Just discussing, ofc he is too strong. I think all he needs to lose is just a lot of damage, the guaranteed B4 after 1+2 throw, and way less + on his DB3+4 low (and ofc no wallburst). That should be enough

[@TheArchKnight]

Zafina is not being downplayed. And she's not "good". Let's start by her ☆ HS. Yes, i12 is good, but it's a high that has poor range, although it tracks to both sides - like the majority of the HS anyways, mind you -. Well, that is if the first move connects, because the tornado can be sidewalked to either side (except Jack and bears). But you don't even have to sidewalk it. If the first hit whiffs, you have more than enough time to launch punish it as the tornado comes out in 47 frames... The move on block is +3, but the pushback is so big you can't really do anything after it. There's no mix up, there's no setup... At the wall, it's better, but nothing threatening. Now, if the move manages to hit, it deals 51 damage. Good damage, not gonna lie. But Jack's is an i10 and deals 52 damage. Kuma's is only 1 frame slower, completely homing, has a range of 3.00 and deals 52 damage. On block, Kuma's is +10... Note that I'm comparing to a couple of characters among those you put below her. I don't think we need to compare her HS with others like that of Dragunov, DVJ, King... You get the point. Her second HS comes out of SCR, which already says for itself how limiting the access to it it is. Even if you block running 3 - which is a rare occasion because the move can be floated easily, any character with an i12 mid or low can interrupt this. But she threatens SCR 2,4. Good. Now, what about other ways to get into SCR? 1,3? -2 on block MNT 1,3? 0 on block ☆3? 0 on block ws3? 0 on block To all these options above, any move up to i14 (low or mid) shuts down the mix up. For the following moves, however, only RA will do the trick: db3, +3 on hit f3, +3 on block (i21, high...) "But if she punishes or get to hit with one of those moves, it's a guaranteed mix up." Yeah, just like any other character. Some of them even have way better mix up than that. Now, the move is i19 low, -14 on block, and deals 30 damage for itself, and guarantees some other moves after it, the best being b3, which will add up to 41 damage. And at the wall, it guarantees df1,2,1. Lili's bt HS is i16 low, deals 39 damage, and is -8 on block. Sure, she recovers back turned, which makes the punishment finicky because the power crush will cover any i14+ move. So, tehcnically it's a -13 move (?). (I'm trying to remember any other low HS that comes out of an stance for comparison, but I can't seem to find one in my head now. Moving on...). This second HS of hers is not on the good side. Other characters have a lot more going on for them in terms of HS. Now, let's talk about her overall. It's so much, I don't even know where to start from. So, let's start by talking about her new stuff. All of her new moves cost her life (unlike Jun, she only recovers it through standard grey life mechanic). Her Azazel moves; they are good when they hit, but she'll be killing herself if opponent is blocking them. You completely give up on your turn each time they are blocked*, and you still lose life. So, we want these moves to hit, right? How do we do that? Well, we threat the opponent with good lows. But what lows? *Except for MNT df1, which is +6 on block. Great. Let's start by discussing the "neutral" stance. The Azazel move she gets is f1+2. i19, HE, launcher on heat. Cool. But -9 on block. I want my opponent to duck, and get hit by this. I need to use my lows. Since b1+2 on neutral no longer exists, the lows we are left with are db3, d3 and db4. d3 is an amazing low until you face someone that can react to it. It being an i22 move, yes, it can be reacted to. Back in the day, the go-to move against opponents that can react to d3 was b1+2, but we don't have that option anymore. db4 could be considered reactable too, but even if it hits, it's not threatning enough. It's -3 on hit, and if you transition into MNT, you are at -4. The damage isn't great either. Not a great option. db3 is the only truly non-reactable low Zafina has, but... where's the range? And it has no tracking to her weak side. In conclusion, you don't have to fear her lows on neutral, and db3 will get covered up by SSL/SWL, which is the side you want to move to anyways, because Zafina has no good move, outside her homing moves, that tracks to her right side. Two of her homings are high, so you can SSL into duck, and cover them too. Her mid homing is an ff move, so yeah, it is 'slow'. So, my opponent can react to my best low, the other two options are also not great... How do I use f1+2? Maybe I can catch my opponent moving to the sides with it? Well, I wish. It's completely linear. The real thing about Azazel's new moves are in the stances, where they are either good or okay-ish. SCR 2,1 is a good move. It's a i14 move, HE, launcher in heat, -6, good damage, and has decent tracking to her weak side (and none to her left side). Unless you are Alisa or Lili. Those two can sidewalk it even to its strong side*. They don't care. :) *depending on the frame advantage, of course. But even other characters can't sidewalk it if Zafina enters SCR at 0, for example. But they can. Anyhow, this move is good, and people have a reason to duck in front of SCR. Well, this move just isn't a fantastic move because it can still be interrupted. For example, even after ff3, which makes Zafina enter SCR at +4, SCR 2,1 will trade with a jab. SCR 4 will not armor through for a launch against a single jab, and SCR df4 will not counter hit launch it. So, it's not like the opponent has a reason to be afraid of checking with a jab. SCR df3 is i28 - super reactable, and super punishable on block. So if Zafina is using this to go under a jab for better reward, the opponent can just choose to block next time and observe if that move is coming or not. She still loses life attempting to use SCR 2,1. By the way, Jin can parry the second hit for a launcher, and in the mirror match, Zafina can b1+3 it (2nd hit). :D SCR df1 is kinda impractical because it's super linear, and it's an i18 move. Also costs life. MNT df1 is okay. It starts very slow, so it can be interrupted. It has weird tracking. Most of the times, it just whiffs against walkers (to either side). It's better used when you are in heat, and you take advantage of the armor you gain from being in heat, and try to fish for a HD launcher, or that sweet +6 on block. Not that you can do much, because of the push back. Backdashing after this can get you out of viable options like 1,3, ☆3, f3. And ff3 is linear and slow enough that you can move to the sides after MNT df1, if you think your opponent will go for it. TRT df1 is also okay-ish, more to the bad side, though. It made the Tarantula stance less bad. It is an i19 move, HE, knocks down on normal hit, -7, instantly gets you out of Tarantula stance. Costs life, but cool. What's my best way to enter TRT stance? Oh, SCR 1+2d. It leaves Zafina at +7 on block. Great! But wait a minute... The move is an i19, so you can interrupt it with moves with a startup up to 11 frames. Even high jabs. Oh. Now, on with her nerfs: Very low damage output on her bnb combos. Neutral stance b1+2 no longer exists df1,4 no longer spins during combos df3,4 is now i15, was i14. No longer spins during combos df2 got its range reduced. Used to hit up to distance 2.42, now max range is 2.39 (seems minor, but it's not) db4,2 on ch goes directly into tornado b2 doesn't knockdown anymore (now leaves you at +12 on hit) b1+3 costs Zafina a lot of life, which will be summed up with the damage dealt by the move it'll be armoring through. It doesn't wall splat anymore, doesn't break the floor. b3 is now -14, and doesn't transition into MNT anymore. uf1+2 no longer exists ff2 no longer counter hit launches ff3 no longer counter hit launches (now leaves you at +14) SCR 1+2 lost its CH properties. SCR 4 goes directly into tornado on hit, and lost the ability to stay in SCR. It's now more linear than before, whereas in Tekken 7, it had decent tracking to one of the sides. No longer has high crush properties SCR 334 no longer exists (so the mix up between old SCR 3f3 and SCR 33 is gone) MNT 3 (and its extensions) is gone. TRT 1+2 no longer has screw/spin properties. In summary, Zafina in Tekken 8 is a capped and nerfed version of her Tekken 7 version. Her new "Tekken 8 stuff" is underwhelming, and falls short compared to the rest of the cast. To make her things work, you'll have to work 10 more than any other real A (or above) character. She's not good, let alone A tier. I still love her, and I like what they tried to go for with her new moves. Just too bad it doesn't work.

[@bananaxz444]

thats a lot of things 😭

[@SuperAkouma]

No offence I ain't reading all that

[@TheArchKnight]

@@SuperAkouma But can you tell me what KuPass means? Victor keeps saying that. Kappa

[@wisdomseeker0142]

@@SuperAkoumaalright let me tell you something I’m almost a Tekken emperor with Zafina right now, d3 is react-able, we lost b1+2 in the nuetral, db3 her only unseeable low doesn’t track to either side and has poor range . All her claw moves leave her minus and take away her health … in world is she anywhere else but in the bottom where my best moves cost me health and I loose advantage ?? She can’t gain her health back either so she’s a worse Jun. Zafina is at the bottom of the tier list and should be. At best she’s a c+ because of her okizemi buffs.

[@brentthompson1607]

No one should trust this tierlist after he cosigned SonicFox saying Zafina was broken and then SonicFox proceeded to get washed in a tournament with players that aren't even professional.

[@SuperAkouma]

So a guy who isn't a pro Tekken player lost with zafina to guys that also aren't pro Tekken players ? Ok

[@brentthompson1607]

​@@SuperAkoumawhy are you cosigning a nonprofessionals opinion??

[@SuperAkouma]

@@brentthompson1607 you don't have to be a professional to have a correct opinion but him losing doesn't prove him wrong.

[@-1000_damage]

As a kazuya main, I’m looking at a watch waiting for my retaliation.

[@TheDeadlyTikka]

Jack is interesting. Seen people put him in S and all the way down in bottom rank

[@CripplingMemeAddict]

They gave dragunov his own tier 2 games in a row

[@SugarRoll]

Dragunov doesn't have a fireball. S tier for sure but not on a tier all by himself.

[@Kaithe7]

A fireball wouldnt be suprising at this point

[@adeebh1238]

He definitely in a tier all by himself Stop 🛑 ✋

[@jacobtridef48]

as a lee main, i was shocked to see him in A+. i feel like most people shit on him, cuz hes kinda complicated, and not nearly as busted as lots of other characters LOL

[@temiv2o222]

He has crazy ass strings

[@guutenks2498]

Can you make a video on doing kbd on hitbox for tekken 8?

[@SuperAkouma]

I plan to do some Tekken 8 Hit Box videos but in the mean time you can watch the Tekken 7 Hit Box videos I made, not much as changed

[@StringedYak]

I have literally never fought a Nina in this whole month.

[@heroicsquirrel3195]

Ive fought two and both sent me packing with my pants down and a daisy between my cheeks

[@SuperAkouma]

You should hope it stays that way lmao

[@adeebh1238]

I play Bryan and Feng Playing Bryan gives me a headache he’s not that good I feel Playing Feng I feel very powerful

[@amrkoti686]

I feel like this this tierlist is very close to reality and i think the devs should work on maki g all characters A or a+ level

[@kitar0777]

Zafina is the worst in the game, you're basing your tier placement on the fact she has a 50/50 that all the cast have? And getting caught by either option doesn't hurt. scr 1+2 doesn't do 28 damage anymore, it does 20. Zaf damages her self which is a big argument on why she's the worst in the game, to break 70 damage I have to damage myself twice in a game with cheap damage from characters and chip damage. If I don't want to hurt myself doing combos I'm doing 63 damage max, a lot of guarantees requires health loss. She helps you when you let her hang herself especially when most the things she's do is unsafe. Secondly, Zaf has no good punishment game, launch at 16f. Thirdly she's insanely steppable with key moves d3, df1, ff3 etc. So to recap: -Damages herself -weak damage output -Very Unsafe -Bad Tracking -Bad punishment

[@SuperAkouma]

The damages herself part is definitely important not like Jun because she can't heal but in some instances the damage is well worth it, her parry for example does so much for what it is. Weak damage output, nothing too impressive I'll give you that. Very unsafe, that more up to the player than the character, she has the safe options you need. Bad tracking, kinda but I can't step most of her stuff with Lee. Bad punishment, no i15 launch hurts but the rest is fine tbh

[@kitar0777]

@@SuperAkouma The parry is in your favor because I have to make a hard read or else I lose damage and I eat your launcher, additionally I take the damage from your move and I hurt myself for 50 damage. As far as safe play zafina I'm left with db2, db3, ff4, df1, ff3, scr21, mnt 3 poke. That's not good and many of these options are steppable when I become more telegraph playing limited. The rest of the cast can be reduced to what they need but it's better to have a novelist of options.

[@HotsumaSadamoto]

Dragunov comments were based on pre-nerf footage... just saying

[@SuperAkouma]

They were not

[@HotsumaSadamoto]

@@SuperAkouma That clip was legitimately from a match before the balance patches... the one with the db 3+4 .

[@SuperAkouma]

First of all nothing from that clip was nerfed secondly you think I based my opinion of the character just from a YT short ?

[@HotsumaSadamoto]

@SuperAkouma you seem hostile from a simple comment that the footage was before the first patch. You used that as a talking point, so I simply pointed that out. After patches, he has a bit more pushback making it nerfed... but being specific... the particular db 3+4 wall splat is nearly if not impossible to do now. Take a chill pill on the defensiveness.

[@SuperAkouma]

@@HotsumaSadamoto You said something untrue, then I correct you. There is no hostility and also there was no nerf on db3+4 you can check the patch notes.

[@Gakki_Aniki]

Jack 8 in c-tier tickles my brain

[@8minato]

Kazuya is c tier jack in c tier is insane he’s at least A

[@adamdickerson2762]

I play Lili so A is a good spot she is good but not broke

[@saramegan2243]

Steve have new tech, now hes S/A imo

[@temiv2o222]

It’s not reliable at people ab poke you right before u do it

[@saramegan2243]

@@temiv2o222 if you do it fast you don't have time to df2 and it still puts them in danger if Steve decides not to

[@nohat1375]

It's not that useful

[@Novellous210]

But on your thumbnail you put panda In Dragonov tier so since I main her I was wondering if that was how you stood

[@SuperAkouma]

The answer is in the video 🤝

[@Sommeill]

How do you think the character spread for evo Japan will en up being?

[@SuperAkouma]

Many many Dragunov, Azucena and Reina.

[@tabkg5802]

3:20 btw everything after breaking step/zen on block gets beaten by dickjab (except after bf2-3). Tbh can't decide if zen got stronger or weaker since while options themselves are overall better, the canceling us much harder and you also can't cancel it into a dash Btw it's hilarious how Nina and Hworang players gaslighted us into thinking they're bad

[@KingSlayerGoose]

something I think is wild and I'd I'm genuinely curious as to why its like this but kaz and devil jin share a lot of moves but DJ's are wayy better his lasers are unblockable, Kaz armor explosion is only in heat while Djs is his parry/counter tool and usable outside of heat. I'm just curious as to why that is and wondering if someone more familiar with Tekkens overall balance plan could explain this?

[@MisterHerbal]

there is no explanation. these game developers just do shit without any purpose at all many of different times over and over again and again LOL.

[@nobody-ho4yp]

kaz used to have good 50/50 and strong low punishment but bad poking. he didnt have good strings or mid pokes which he does have in t8. dj used to have slightly less good 50/50 and no 13f launching low punish. but he had beter poking tools n an actual panick move. in this game? idk kaz is kind of more all around with him having ff2 and decent strings. DJ got a bunch of things that patch up the small weaknesses he used to have. they are alot more similar in this game i think

[@FlokiTech]

DJ has been overhyped for so long at this point it's almost painful. Kazuya does everything better than Devil jin besides heat smash. Like ok he got a 45 damage hellsweep But it resets neutral... Do we really think 14 more damage on a hellsweep is better then the best oki in the entire game??? Reina is for sure the best Mishima even though her playerbase sucks.

[@SuperAkouma]

Ngl been seeing things and I'm slowly turning to the Kaz better than DJ idea

[@Flop_TK]

you can do uf1 against bryans heatdash into taunt