David Davis details his concerns about the trial of Lucy Letby | The Daily T Podcast

When Lucy Letby was convicted of murdering seven newborn babies and attempting to murder seven more, she became Britain’s most prolific baby serial killer. But why are the media questioning the evidence used in the trial?
MP David Davis has put his head above the parapet on the issue and has decided to conduct his own investigation into the nurse after being contacted by numerous experts with their concerns. He even plans to visit Letby in prison.
Davis joins us in the studio for today’s Daily T to talk us through what we know about the evidence from the trial - and the questions that still need to be answered.
#politics #uk #letby
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[@Chris-qv5gv]

The demonisation of Lucy Letby right from the off worried me. I worked as a nurse in the NHS from 1978 to 1984 and although this case happened a lot later, I know that once a doctor says something about a nurse, it sticks. Dr Jayawarda got it into his head that the only reason these babies were dying is because they were being murdered. The fact that these babies were very ill with a low chance of survival, that the ward was understaffed and that some of the staff there were not properly trained in neonatal intensive care seems to have passed him by. The downgrading of the unit so that they did not take in the sickest babies probably did more to save lives than anything else. My view is that these babies died from a combination of their poor health, and lack of properly qualified and supported staff. They were not murdered in the conventional sense. The only thing Lucy Letby is guilty of is the crime of being there.

[@ruthbashford3176]

Well Said. And there must have been a lot of infection in the ward from the raw sewage that seeped in to it on a regular basis. Apart from Lucy herself the only defence witness was the plumber who described how he was often called to deal with these problems

[@Eerielai]

@@ruthbashford3176 The babies didn't die from infection. Bad plumbing doesn't lead to air in the veins or sharp instruments in the throat.

[@mandyjames8211]

A couple of the babies were totally stable until in her care and she was the only common denominator. That coupled with keeping notes on all of the babies looking up the parents on Facebook, and in court refusing to answer anything really, was evasive throughout- that led me to the conclusion that she is guilty.

[@Eerielai]

No. A random doctor can't just say about a random nurse that she's a baby killer and have her convicted.

[@sofiasininen8268]

​@@Eerielaithe air in the veins was pure speculation. Six of the babies that she allegedly murdered had a post- mortem after they died, in a different hospital, and nothing unnatural hadd been found.

[@paulstone3209]

If David Davies is on the case there are failings in the system

[@philholding6905]

and Nadine Dorries, and 24 expert neonatologists and statisticians, who wrote to the Justice minister, voicing their concerns about the prosecution evidence

[@Flippant-j5d]

@@philholding6905 Having Nadine Dorries on your team almost destroys its' credibility.

[@goatlps]

@@philholding6905 flaws in evidence and technicalities getting someone off doesn't make them innocent.

[@nicolahawkins7784]

​@@goatlpsHasn't David Davis already said that?

[@williamdew7143]

Perhaps he'll remember to bring a pen this time?

[@dealyboy]

David Davis is an honest, honourable and good person. The fact that he is experienced in the scientific approach, has the intellect to discriminate between the 'facts' and applies his humanity to the case gives Lucy every chance of hope.

[@georger-c4645]

I hope so but the cynical side of me thinks he will be stopped or that he will feel under pressure to stop and will somehow justify it to himself and to us that he did the right thing. I can imagine it could get quite ugly privately. I hope I'm wrong

[@idi0tdetectioninprogress]

​@@georger-c4645Its another Hillsborough disaster.

[@nfcpro]

I have always admired him... he may be a Tory but he's a decent man

[@judithcressey1682]

​@@nfcpro That's one more than evidenced by the Labour Party.

[@katfeline3781]

@@nfcpro Yes, that is what I think, and I am definitely not a Tory!

[@Olivia-io9sb]

Thank heavens there are MP's with the integrity and intelligence of David Davies working on behalf of society. Why can the same level of scrutiny not be applied to ongoing upheavals in our society?

[@julz5281]

I work d as a nurse and had a doctor lie about me.....i had asked him to review a patient numerous times throughtout a 2 day period.....when that person took ill he said he had not been informed or asked to look at said patient. He was unaware that i was a nurse who learnt early on in my career to write EVERYTHING in my patients notes.....including every phine call made or convversation had with a doctor. It was all there in wrotong and timed andndated that i had spoke to him amd what was said by each of us. It was in writong that i had increased observations on this patient without being tols to as i alwas using my own intuition etc. he couls have lost me my job. Not one word was said to him! I never trusted this case .....exactly what was the evidence and can we trust the consultants, doctors, managers or indeed the nhs. I dont which is why i quit.

[@imemine6494]

.. we can't trust anybody

[@marietomkinson5910]

I found the whole trial unbalanced. My problem was the problem with the drains, I thought they would have had an expert witness too discuss the noxious vapours from the drains into the nursery areas. Marie from the uk 🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🌹🌻

[@laif0961]

She's been a scapegoat imo

[@flangepipe1]

Well done, Dr's are like the police and many other government agencies, they stick together even when they are in the wrong

[@miacat1727]

@@flangepipe1 A major concern was hearing junior doctors were working on the ward unsupervised, as D Davis said, looking up medical information before administering adoc care, which to me, is a huge red flag, as represents the level of a poorly run ward with continuous unprofessional failings.

[@bulletdozerx9954]

By finding Letby guilty it takes away all responsibility from the failings of the health board in question. There are certainly elements of doubt in this case that need further examination.

[@annoloki]

...and the government that pulled all the money out of needed public services just out of spite... if anyone should be in prison for all the deaths, it's David Cameron, George Osborne, Jeremy Hunt etc etc

[@miacat1727]

@@bulletdozerx9954 👍 Spot on...accountability in this case was far too great, an honest investigation would have exposed gross malpractice, sadly it goes on all the time.

[@miacat1727]

They had to have a scapegoat as the alternative would be incompetence, negligence leaving the door open for the parents to sue.

[@S.Trades]

🥱

[@neonwired4978]

The health board didn't inject babies with fatal amounts of insulin.

[@cachinnation448]

There’s no reason why David Davis would pursue this if there was NO significant reason to do so. I think this is a heroic search for truth. Much kudos ❤

[@truehighs7845]

I personally have no feeling for her for or against, but if we made a mistake the baby killer is still at large, so we must look into it.

[@rabburns1382]

David is a man of integrity...❤

[@goatlps]

@@truehighs7845 Many people working with her wanted her sacked before even knowing she was murdering them. Plus there's her diary saying she was sick/evil, or whatever it was. Someone did it, so it was obviously her, even if some evidence is in doubt a lot more isn't.

[@goatlps]

@@rabburns1382 he'd only succeed in getting a murderer set free on a technicality.

[@nicolahawkins7784]

​@@goatlpsYou know this how exactly?

[@hazeldonner1855]

I am so pleased David Davis is looking into this case. I have had such a terrible feeling about this case and the result.

[@user-it3rm8dv7r]

I so glad I'm not the only one who has feeling about this I have a gut feeling I shift it and I don't know why I'm so got this feeling it has been looked at again

[@jaynerees5459]

I’ve had this feeling too.

[@HelenStirland-c3d]

Me too. Bit of a hysterical witchhunt.

[@HelenStirland-c3d]

The judge was odd. The other doctors were odd. I agree somebody did something. But it needs to be clarified whether it was another staff member who was present at all deaths. Hearsay is present. Notes are alterable. Even if its to clarify she did do it. The dr. Who told the police about notes he helped her hide and post it notes needs investigating.

[@uingaeoc3905]

@@HelenStirland-c3d Ignorant nonsense.

[@debbieshrubb1222]

As a retired nurse who has known the worst and best of the NHS and its culture I felt concerned about the fairness of the trial and conviction of Lucy Letby. I felt it was driven by mysogyny frankly and viewing things like the post it notes probably out of context. I have also seen nurses scapegoated for systemic failings and end up facing disciplinary tribunals that have ruined their lives and deflected attention from poor management, and inadequate resources and training. Im pleased this is being talked about.

[@sarahhamilton347]

Ditto and this women reported to the hospital her concerns the team in her opinion were not trained enough for the level of care needed for these babies and she named names, so much for voicing your concerns, my heart goes out to her a pure miscarriage of justice, and I think there for the grace of god go I. It could happen to any of us. But people who dont know the system would not believe it.

[@louisejeffries7155]

Agreed It’s just so sad it takes a case like Lucy’s to bring these issues to light and into conversation

[@johnconnors6412]

There is doubts but how us it misogyny

[@roseh1132]

I've studied criminology at Master's level. Misogyny is RIFE in the criminal justice ⚖️ system. Globally women are the fastest growing prison population, whilst crime rates have decreased over the past 30 years.

[@debbieshrubb1222]

@@johnconnors6412 for me the media coverage describing her room, her looks, her friendship with a male doctor (also used as part of the prosecution case) as a possible motivation, the language used. As has already been said in the comments there is an awful lot of statistical and other research evidence about how women are treated more harshly in the criminal justice system. Lucy Letby had already been judged and found guilty IMO before the trial began by much of the media.

[@adriennecatherinecooper7773]

Thank heavens for such honourable men like David Davies 👌🙏

[@iainmclaughlan1557]

Amen.

[@clivepearce941]

There were questions raised about risk to his reputation. I think his honest and rigorous approach to this enhances it. He has investigated many cases.

[@louisejeffries7155]

@@clivepearce941 is say his reputation is far more intact than those who attack at a personal level calling people crass for merely asking questions or having an opinion

[@lindascott5377]

Honourable? Naw.

[@cyreetruman4826]

There is something about this case that doesn’t sit right with me as a registered nurse myself I am glad that this is being investigated

[@bend3rbot]

Court cases aren't meant to sit right, because they are about evidence, not feelings. She was arrested, the bodies stopped, the evidence they collected was convincing for the jurors assigned. End of!

[@S.Trades]

🥱

[@MAC-mp2hu]

I agree, something is just not right about this! If the convictions were overturned I wouldn’t be surprised!

[@S.Trades]

@@MAC-mp2hu 🥱

[@elvischrist8826]

"ohhh something isn't quite right ohhhhh" Evidence,rather than your expert Calombo instincts. EVIDENCE?

[@forsdykemontague1017]

If there is the potential for a miscarriage of justice, and that includes reasonable doubt, then it must be investigated, especially having been given a full life term.

[@ExplorewithSarahlouise]

Yes I agree it is a weird case as I’ve always wondered what she got out of this or her reasonings or motive. I hope they get to the truth whatever it is

[@URFUTUREUK]

If there was no corruption going on, they wouldn't be worried about investigating it is because the hearing was corrupt that they wouldn't investigate it.

[@idi0tdetectioninprogress]

Something needs looking at, that is for certain. Ive only brushed over it as I was busy at the time of the trial. But here's a few things to mull over. The shift pattern spreadsheet was something created to fit Lucy to the deaths they linked her with. That's misleading the jury. Her defence admitting to something BEFORE the trial even began. The expert witness who the defence never called to the stand. The way Lucy answered questions, clearly not schooled or directed by her defence. Poor, absolutely p1ss poor. Sets a dangerous precedent for us all.

[@kwanchan6745]

when I heard about the flimsy evidence against her, I came to conclusion she was tried and convicted by popular media

[@willowtree9291]

The Channel 5 programme yesterday was very interesting.

[@MrBaritone38]

I'm pleased David Davies is on the case. I don't think her convictions are safe either and power establishment people are at play.

[@ruthinterestedtourist7523]

The point is that Mr Davies will be supported by unpaid experts in the field who dont have an axe to grind.

[@ruthbashford3176]

Many medical and statistical experts have come forward to discredit the evidence presented by the prosecution in Lucy' trial. It's a pity some of them were not at the trial

[@ruthinterestedtourist7523]

@@ruthbashford3176 I attended the trial for 2 expert medical days and one of Lucys. It was a rugby scrum but well wotth attending.

[@claudiaarjangi4914]

This. They won't have an axe to grind or their own bosses deficiencies on trial.

[@uingaeoc3905]

@@ruthbashford3176 Because they are not experts.

[@jaywalker1233]

u just cant accept it

[@Pensivata]

After what happened to the sub postmasters - it would not surprise me if Lucy Letby was proven innocent.

[@abstraqtphilosophy7357]

Whyt ppple going all out to stand by their own, even a serial baby deleter like Lucy. And then they want to lecture others about morality. 😂 laughable

[@StevenLewis-y3q]

Terrible logic there. 1 person 1 crime. 100s of people and no crime on there part.

[@Pensivata]

@@StevenLewis-y3q poor spelling

[@hittitecharioteer]

@@StevenLewis-y3q It is your logic that is questionable. It is one system with one process - a system proven fallible on too many occasions.

[@johnstewart3244]

But when?

[@shaunpatrick8345]

So they started looking at 62 cases and narrowed it down to 17, baed on her being the only one on duty for each. There is just as strong statistical reasoning to arrest every nurse who has been on duty while 17 patients died.

[@davestokes3446]

This is called "cherry picking" and destroys all validity of the statistics. This is a basic principle of statistics.

[@rosiewaterhouse2636]

I'm baffled by Lucy Letby's defence team. As MD in Private Eye has pointed out in Letby articles part one and two . Prosecution had six expert witnesses. Defence none. Why did they not call at least one who had credible defence? Defence expert witness evidence was available. These are definitely unsafe convictions. I truly hope David Davis will pursue this potential terrible miscarriage of justice

[@Tommcdonald818]

@@rosiewaterhouse2636 They should have been off this case long ago as a Science on Trial article stated recently.More to it than just incompetence.Lucy may be in the dark as to what her rights are as regards a new Defence team.

[@chrisstevens2706]

Medical defence witnesses have been struck off in the past for daring to provide evidence unhelpful to conviction. Strange but true. That answers your obvious question. However, in lucys case the statistical evidence used to convict her has so many flaws that im wondering what happened to her defence team. Were they disallowed by the judge to give evidence which challenged the rota nonsense.?

[@hittitecharioteer]

If so, then the judge had the authority to halt the trial, and even call a mis-trial. So why didn't they? I'm unsettled by Miss Letby's trial. There is once again the whiff of failed justice - dare it be said, a cover-up? I hope David Davis moves heaven and earth to get to the truth of it whatever the outcome (and I hope he doesn't endanger himself doing so).

[@Themystergamerr]

Maybe because there were no credible defence experts. Lucy is no shrinking violet, she would speak up if she thinks her team are incompetent. Having listened to all the court transcripts by Crime Scene to Court Room, I'm convinced of her guilt. She told lie after lie after lie

[@ruthbashford3176]

@@Themystergamerr Lucy is clearly innocent. Were these 'lies' invented by the prosecution?

[@estoforte388]

This is what MPs are for

[@eileenkillen1481]

Something about Lucy Letbys trial and conviction stank!!

[@marvellis6762]

Such as??

[@MakerInMotion]

@@marvellis6762 Some people think women can't be killers. That's the only reason any doubts are being raised. The evidence against her was overwhelming. The only evidence they need to counter that is that she's not a man.

[@ruthbashford3176]

@@marvellis6762 Its really hard to overstate how literally the entire case against Lucy fits the pattern of having a narrative before any evidence and then coming up up with post hoc ideas about how she must have done the crimes without any solid evidence.

[@ruthbashford3176]

@@MakerInMotion Everyone knows woman can murder

[@tiff4s606]

Go listen to her evidence.

[@claireterry1835]

I listened to the trial. I would not have found her guilty. I have been uncomfortable with this decision since the trial. I am very glad it’s being looked into. I felt it was VERY obvious in the trial that she was being thrown under the bus to protect the NHS.

[@michellelaw839]

God, this is disturbing to hear.

[@mol588]

Same here @#claireterry1 Having followed this case quite closely, including a lot of the trial, I would not have found Lucy Letby guilty either had I been a member of the jury . Like yourself I was not comfortable with the conviction . If a miscarriage of justice has taken place let's hope a decent appeals lawyer can get through the system and prove it, allowing Lucy Letby to start a new life .

[@hittitecharioteer]

Served 25 years as a frontline clinician in the NHS. Your suspicions are not without foundation. It has a disturbing culture to say the least.

[@marvellis6762]

Looked into means nothing. And she's absolutely where she belongs!

[@miacat1727]

It was LL verses the system, she never stood a chance. Like so many principaled people who have experienced the wrath of going against the grain, attempting to expose a systemic flawed culture is not favoured.

[@billatkin3956]

It's really impressive that he's prepared to invest such a considerable amount of time in order to get to the truth.

[@harrisonofthenorth]

My concern was the judge instructing the jury that it could find Letby guilty by majority vote, which by excluding the minority vote automatically dispensed with "reasonable doubt", which is a miscarriage of justice!

[@taxidude]

With these crimes for her own good, she needs totally cleared. Reasonable doubt won't be enough for public opinion. I'm concerned because people I respect with no axe to grind are unhappy with the conviction! That's enough for me.

[@miacat1727]

Those who have followed this case feel an unease about it & that's because a life sentence was given purely on suspiscion & manipulated circumstancial evidence.

[@DrMattiLabbratt]

Exactly so. It also illustrates how media exposure prejudices cases.

[@marcust123]

I agree its shocking

[@elainehughes5]

'virtually red- handed' its either red handed or not. not 'virtually' which lets face it is a 'maybe'. She has been scapegoated ' burnt at the stake as a witch'

[@lovegodscreatures6776]

As an ICU NURSE I’m horrified of this case. However deep in my heart I believe Lucy is a victim of miscarriage of justice. I believe she’s innocent.

[@janetmarybowen3157]

As an ex-neonatal nurse I believe her to be guilty.

[@hedgiemum5778]

I think that she is innocent too.

[@HelenStirland-c3d]

Someone is guilty...more likelyba less skilled nurse...

[@hittitecharioteer]

Served 25 years as a frontline clinician in the NHS. Your suspicions are not without foundation. The NHS has a disturbing culture to say the least - whether she is innocent or not. I suspect that the judicial process has failed, meaning that regardless of Letby's incarceration, the public are not informed on the truth of what happened. The whole matter doesn't "sit right" with many who ARE well-informed for it to be ignored. Wrongly jailing anyone has never solved anything. I hope David Davis' investigation can reassure the public that justice has been served fairly.

[@janetmarybowen3157]

​@@HelenStirland-c3dNot possible, sorry.

[@BenJamin-tx7ol]

Not an expert but a retired psychi: nurse, havent followed the case too closely, but do remember the so called confession found in her flat, querying if she was responsible is it my fault, etc etc, this tilted me to think she is innocent, no killer would write like that, they already know! But an overworked, overstressed young nurse might easily write self questioning nonsense like that, its a sort of Stockholm Syndrome. And would the N H S, Managers and Senior Staff deiberately set up a young Staff Nurse to take the fall ? YES THEY WOULD, UNHESITATINGLY, THE ONLY THING NHS MANAGERS AND SENIOR STAFF CARE ABOUT IS THEIR REPUTATONS, BONUSES AND PENSIONS ! Nurses are overworked, overstressed, unsupported and denigrated by Managment, it is highly probable that N H S meaness led to these deaths, enough nurses should be employed, rescources should be adequate, etc, but all that costs money, dead babies sre cheap anyway, and Nurses, ? Well we can always hire another one from abroad can't we ! It's cheaper, saves "my bonus and pension" and makes the NHS look good

[@Z02213Z]

Fully agree she even wrote I'm innocent I didn't do it. No one looked at that 😞 really seems like she is innocent.

[@George-ky4wf]

fully agree

[@louisejeffries7155]

Agree The meanest lead to not only the neo Nate unit but other areas of the hospital being full of frank faeces - from the ceiling and water taps Oh yer and surprisingly full of sepsis to At the time There was four families in the community looking at taking legal action (not just complaining but taking action) against the hospital primarily because of the substandard care

[@guestaccesslaptopguestacce5198]

Bonus???? NHS is not a non for profit?

[@degenerates1971]

that's just a projection.

[@michaelabeardsall3358]

Why wasn’t the table with the deaths while she wasn’t on shift shown by the defensive?

[@Themystergamerr]

I'm guessing because it didn't show any nurse on shift for ALL those deaths. Also because none of them were unexpected collapses

[@Davidolsen808]

@@ThemystergamerrThere were 17 deaths and about 60 non-fatal collapses. Lucy has only been convicted for 7 of the deaths. 10 is still a staggering number to happen in one year and it hasn’t been accounted for.

[@TheMartinaq]

That's how an interview should be conducted. Excellent

[@trevski9265]

Sadly our legal system is not fit for purpose

[@sarahsarah4271]

It’s all built on lies not truth. I was going to defend myself. Wrote to CPS to asking for further information and have not received it. The CPS are hiding the truth. They are sitting on information that can clear me.

[@elvischrist8826]

Why? Explain all the failings ,go.

[@daz3745]

​@@elvischrist8826Luke Mitchell is another one.

[@Jessicacaca00]

There is plenty wrong with our legal system, such as a system that rewards a guilty plea with a lighter sentence, and solictors being so expensive that 95% of the public have to rely on legal aid representation which is often inadequate​@@elvischrist8826

[@Brez6645]

​@@elvischrist8826The fast-tracking of those accused of inciting the recent riots proves the justice system is not independent but subservient to Westminster. That can't be an acceptable state of affairs.

[@cathyhughes6054]

So glad this is being looked into her conviction isn't safe at all

[@neonwired4978]

It's absolutely safe but do please share your legal expertise

[@S.Trades]

@@neonwired4978 🎯

[@youveryniceman]

@@neonwired4978 Please share YOUR legal expertise!

[@deldia]

​@@neonwired4978she may have done it but the case needs redoing properly.

[@paulis8107]

It's not being looked into.

[@mikeweston7947]

This is excellent fair minded professional journalism. Well done Telegraph Team. So good we have David Davis's in this world.

[@Tommcdonald818]

Lucy Letby's Defence was appalling.They agreed with the Prosecution before the first trial even started that two insulin TPN bags had been poisoned with insulin when there was no credible evidence that this was the case.If they attempt to prevent Sir David Davis speaking to Lucy then it will confirm the grave concerns that many people have about them.

[@GemmaMay-Hill]

@@Tommcdonald818 I am a patient of the maternity services at exactly same time Lucy working there. I've tried to contact her Ben Myers solicitors and they wouldn't let my statement be considered it's in her defence.

[@louisejeffries7155]

I agree

[@abcabc-xr7sb]

there is no defense because she clearly did it

[@lesley9989]

​@@abcabc-xr7sbyou'd be amazed how people are saying she can't find new and compelling evidence for a CCRC and there excuse is it's impossible because there's no evidence anyway, so I can she find new evidence! People are on another planet

[@tonyobrien3802]

Evidence? Reasoning?

[@rumelahmed4539]

Biggest miscarriage of justice in recent years.

[@suemcgregor9248]

She did this, no doubt about it. As soon as she was gone off the ward, babies stopped dying. Did Beverly Allitt ever confess?

[@rumelahmed4539]

@suemcgregor9248 There were 6 babies that died when she wasn't on shift. She was doing more hours than anyone at that ward. It was statistically more likely a baby would die on a shift she was on. The babies were sick babies. They were by no means healthy babies. All this gets forgotten. There was absolutely no evidence that she had done anything wrong and certainly no admission.

[@vrclckd-zz3pv]

​@@suemcgregor9248 as soon as she was gone the ward suddenly started getting a lot more attention. The subpar nurses would be forced to start putting in more effort.

[@Mrpwocber]

@@suemcgregor9248 She alone would be doing everything? Some say she was relatively new.

[@ragoyster1089]

I think with modern medicine we almost expect that every poorly baby should be saved. But my late father (born in 1929) called William, was the fourth 'William' that my grandmother gave birth too. All were live births at home. One lived a couple of hours, the others a few days. Being born is and always will be a precarious business.

[@Comfortzone99]

One of the babies weighed 1 pound. Yet Letby and the staff were still expected to perform miracles .

[@QueenJuno88]

@@cupofteawithpoetry: yes, she was the only one on shift when all the babies were killed

[@trevorchap21]

@@QueenJuno88 There were numerous other deaths and collapses when Lucy Letby was not on shift.The spreadsheet which the Prosecution put before the jury is meaningless.

[@Trebor74]

​@@QueenJuno88what did the autopsies say?

[@Comfortzone99]

@@Trebor74 There were no autopsies AFAIK

[@janetmarybowen3157]

@@Comfortzone99 6 of the 7 babies had postmortems.

[@designerdiva87]

As a nurse of 15 years this has never felt right. I also think lay people on a jury are not competent to decipher through medical evidence adequately. It was all circumstantial. My honest opinion is that she’s been used as a scapegoat for a failing hospital. I hope the truth prevails

[@Zombie101]

Well.. let's see now if babies die in mysterious ways now that she is off the roster

[@miacat1727]

Rest assured there will be a complete overhaul on the ward or it will be shut down completely. They wouldn't risk having to cover up any more deaths, & finding another scapegoat won't stand up a second time round.

[@miacat1727]

@@Zombie101 I doubt neo natal babies will ever go to this ward again, fthe reputation was bad long before LL worked there.

[@EllenDean]

@@Zombie101 I think they downgraded it so seriously ill babies won't be placed on that ward.

[@philholding6905]

@@Zombie101 Letby was removed from the neonatal unit, around the same time, (two months approx.), that the unit downgraded from treating very poorly babies. So, it is unfair to consider the differences on this basis.

[@canucutitnoucant3351]

I know many nurses believe this to be an unsafe conviction... scapegoat in a nutshell.

[@hugolloyd940]

Yes there's definitely something wrong here with this case and time will tell

[@samsung63]

A long time, unfortunately! The thing is, it’s not proven.

[@forsdykemontague1017]

Every Nurse I know doesn’t believe she did what they said.

[@janetmarybowen3157]

@@forsdykemontague1017 Except this one!

[@ruthbashford3176]

@@janetmarybowen3157 Listening to the Mail podcasts about the case again I'm shocked to realise there is absolutely NO evidence against Lucy, just speculation and opinion. I don't know how the case ever got to trial?

[@Bonoerra2012]

Lucy Letby MUST Agree to Meet David Davis MP...ASAP.....BUT She Has to Be 100% HONEST...Admit Her Mistakes etc....

[@kristibell3295]

The whole case was based on circumstantial evidence!

[@Eerielai]

Very strong circumstantial evidence. Not a reason to acquit.

[@snapmalloy5556]

It's hilarious that people believe circumstantial evidence isn't evidence..😂

[@Ralph-hw5ri]

Yea, 7 dead babies and a bunch of almost dead babies under the care of one person will do that.

[@sloths-df3gf]

@@snapmalloy5556 It's not hilarious that a woman who could well be entirely innocent could spend the rest of her life in prison as a result of a flawed trial.

[@snapmalloy5556]

@@sloths-df3gf Ok Mr. Or Mrs. non sequitur! What does that have to do with people's misunderstanding that circumstantial evidence is not strong evidence? I gotta get off socal media. The ignorance may start rubbing off on me.

[@EllenDean]

Dr Ravi Jayaram was the doctor who Lucy reported for bullying and harassment a couple of days before he had her arrested.

[@jamesburke2094]

These events strike a chord with those in the accountancy industry Useless unethical leading professionals getting away partly due to lack of technical knowledge outside of the sector, partly unquestioned and abused authority.

[@kristibell3295]

Nice to have presenters that don't shout

[@bolshevikproductions]

One of the best conservative leaders they never had. He stood as leader. And would probably become prime minister

[@Pensivata]

No diversity credentials. Therefore unfairly discriminated against.

[@markvincent7419]

Yes, I've always liked David Davies

[@ermentrudeboutaround7408]

Thank the lord for the very few mp's with the integrity of David Davis.

[@iainmclaughlan1557]

Amen

[@RobertMustoe]

This women has been a victim of a NHS stitch up 😮

[@HENNAtabasun1990]

💯 %

[@Harte105]

At the time this smelt dodgy. I'm even more convinced now. Well done David

[@elvischrist8826]

Based on what evidence

[@Vkng2458]

Well done David for looking at this case

[@lew209]

Superb unbiased long format journalism. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@WesleyWattley-xy4fg]

Absolutely 💯

[@willlawrence8756]

@@WesleyWattley-xy4fg hope for us all yet!

[@unnamedpodcast_thetruth]

We're quick to condemn the press when they don't act professionally but we don't praise them enough when they do. Good call. Great journalism. More of this please.

[@user-jf4cf6rb3i]

Nar...THE TELEGRAPH is like the rest of them.

[@BillyBob-dz9rg]

It helps Davies is a straight peg. If letbys innocent she has a good honest men taking a serious interest in her. I hope for the parents this isn't yet another miscarriage of justice.

[@WesleyWattley-xy4fg]

Legalistic not emotional judgement..yes!! David Davies

[@gunlokman]

Sadly, and dangerously, the age of the 'witch-hunt' is not over. Lucy had virtually no defence at her trial and it looks like she was made a scapegoat to cover up embarassing institutional failings.

[@barbarabrooks4747]

She may be a scapegoat to cover up the poor quality of care at the hospital. Probably she couldn't afford adequate legal representation and hire an army of expert witnesses.

[@WesleyWattley-xy4fg]

Absolutely 💯

[@annoloki]

Why would that be the case? Because the same people who cut the funding to the NHS also cut the funding to legal aid?

[@Marigold502]

Myers is a top barrister and it cost £1million plus.

[@S.Trades]

@@barbarabrooks4747 she and her parents had years to deal with this and the trial costs.

[@S.Trades]

@@Marigold502 £1.5 million.

[@kirkster501]

Her conviction stinks. The evidence is entirely circumstantial. I’m so sorry for the parents but as DD says, it serves them not at all if hospital failings are being covered up by this botched conviction.

[@deniserodway7251]

This case was unsafe verdict the parents got a scapegoat staff are excluded from other workers there is no support staff are in fear for they’re jobs so don’t speak out , Chester staff didn’t speak out as they know they would never get another post in the nhs , it’s toxic staff not loyal to other members of staff or management, Chester on locals news was not equipped or staffed to take these baby’s , that should have gone to Liverpool special units, it’s a disgrace this girl was not given a far trail they got a scapegoat,

[@Micheal-Knight-]

The nurses union should speak out.

[@S.Trades]

She's no longer a nurse. She's been struck off. Something about killing babies?

[@not2longnow]

Some unions aren't fit for purpose unfortunately...

[@Brez6645]

Speak out like they did on the COVID jab mandates?

[@Micheal-Knight-]

@@Brez6645 yes

[@CG-zm9ph]

Doctor A needs to answer some questions too, why did he go against her?

[@ruthbashford3176]

Dr A was definitely chasing Lucy but tried to make out she was chasing him. Why was he allowed to be anonymous? He was a treacherous coward.

[@S.Trades]

Why? Because he believed she was guilty!

[@elvischrist8826]

​@@ruthbashford3176"definitely" evidence?

[@trevorchap21]

The doctors and hospital were facing potentially hundreds of millions of pounds in negligence claims.They needed a scapegoat.

[@christinedavis5813]

This is so true they needed a scape goat

[@jupejupe4jmoi]

This girl is innocent!! Again the courts have totally screwed up this case.

[@jacquelinelc2843]

I’m so relieved this research is happening…I’ve listened to this case for awhile now and have never felt convinced of her guilt. While I found her work habits sloppy at times, it doesn’t mean she killed these babies. It seems this hospital has very lax work standards. The fact that nurses leave before completing their documentation is just plain unprofessional. I’ve worked in a medical environment and our nurses stayed late to make sure this part of their role was complete before going home. This hospital needs an overhaul of management staff.

[@jenjen836]

When staff are exhausted and burnt out from their job, they may prefer to leave on time rather than go back to work even more stressed and burnt out before their next shift (and less fit for practice). They are damned if they do, or damned if they don't.

[@jacquelinelc2843]

@@jenjen836 yes, in those circumstances it’s understandable. The thing is in a medical environment, “if it isn’t charted, it didn’t happen”. It’s a harsh reality but when dealing with such a vulnerable population, medical notes are critical and ensures procedures are not duplicated. The other issue is removing confidential information from a secured environment. Once or twice it can be understandable but this was a habit with Lucy and now it was used against her. That’s what I meant by sloppy practice…management was not making those “best practice” habits clear. A recipe for disaster and lawsuits!

[@patrickdocherty2456]

What about the Dutch case and the Italy case which are similar and they had their case was overturned

[@ksc743]

Hospitals need cameras in neo natal wards 24/7. Cameras don't lie.

[@Relaxandthink5]

Thank goodness David Davis is piecing together the case for possible review. I’m already convinced of Lucy Letby’s innocence given the information trial in the first instance and secondly all the data and contrary expert analysis that has since come out.

[@daniela5945]

In my mind it is the doctors covering up for incompetence, lack of staff and resources.

[@radiosnail]

I know Mr Davies is a Tory, but he is obviously a decent man

[@TheLucanicLord]

He just wants something to try and stay relevant. Man's an arse.

[@-The-Darkside]

He's an actual politician like many of the recent Tories who were there for self gain.

[@judithcressey1682]

Which is 1 more than evidenced by the Labour Party.

[@thorntonovski]

The tories are the most successful political party in the uk in the last 100 years, so by stating tories are somehow bad people... thats the majority of people in the UK for the last 100 years not decent?

[@joanneaderby2974]

Me too David, I would visit her too, this all smells of a set up!

[@delilah-zb5xt]

That judge needs removed his words are not backed by evidence and are seriously bad

[@ruthinterestedtourist7523]

Thank goodness for people like this MP. Ive believed she is innocent from the first pieces of "evidence" as to me, as a childrens nurse, they make no sense!

[@Maryhilton-ws6ol]

Agree

[@nirmalasivam2941]

I’ve been posting all over KZbin that I don’t believe that Lucy is guilty. I am a registered nurse and I really didn’t see any solid evidence to say she murdered these babies.

[@keithp6699]

What about her diaries? If they weren't in the equation I'd be absolutely certain.

[@brenb8897]

A well known saying concerning cockups in the NHS? DENY, DISMISS, DEFEND. She wouldn't be the first one to have been set up!.

[@tobyclayton2597]

I used a vpn to read that 13,000 word article. If true then there needs to be a retrial and an investigation into her original trial.

[@jayrod105jm]

This was a very complex case and should never have been tried in front of a jury. I think purely from the evidence I have read Lucy is not guilty.

[@hubbert22]

Everything was stacked against her and she did not get a fair trial... the public concern is enough to merit a re-trial.

[@sarahyourston2173]

totally agree

[@normankennith7919]

lucy's trial was held in a kangaroo court, at where judge, prosecutor & defence lawyer were singing from the same, 'get letby' song sheet! the gullible, medically ignorant only found lucy 'guilty' because they were impressed by the bluster of the bullying, homosexual prosecutor, who used conjecture over substance to persuade the jury with his action film rhetoric, devoid of any truth!! the whole court was corrupt from a jury of 11, 8 of whom were women-meaning it was a gender imbalanced jury for such an emotive case!! lucy was stitched up by both the hospital & the court!! i wonder how many of them are 'freemasons' & how many of them were homosexuals?

[@kgar1920]

I followed the trial. She is guilty.

[@normankennith7919]

@@cupofteawithpoetry ditto! cheers!

[@lotsoflolly47]

I followed the trial, and listened to lucy letby , she is guilty 100%

[@barracuda008l4]

There is zero evidence, only opinion by experts, and very poor statistical analysis

[@bend3rbot]

How many babies have died since she was imprisoned?!?!

[@bend3rbot]

The LITERALLY HELD A COURT CASE using evidence!!

[@boxlabs]

​@@bend3rbotthere was literally no evidence. A notepad with scribbles.

[@jayniebabe1]

Bring in Prof Norman Fenton, I say! Statistics is right up his street

[@tejswn]

​@@boxlabsin her notepad - "I killed them, I'm evil"

[@Blacktigga2]

NHS is one of the beloved institutions in this country. But there has occasions where serious crimes and misconducts have been committed in this establishment. It might be that Lucy is being scapegoated to protect the reputation of the NHS and seniors within it. We have seen what happened in the Postoffice.

[@jasper7803]

A friend got upset because elderly people died on her watch. Reason was she was so kind that people chose to die with her. Correlation is not causation.

[@Mariomatters1984]

So if shes been found guilty of 7... But they started investigating of 62 cases... Why isnt tge hospital being investigated over the remaining 55 deaths under tbeir care?! Is that just going to be forgotten?

[@samuellarcombe4209]

Legend! I'm so glad this gaining momentum now and this miscarriage of justice can be put right. NHS would rather send an innocent girl to prison than acknowledge their own failure

[@Ann-sj4pt]

Fan boy she’s guilty

[@joycejnn]

How come she was present at every incident and when not there there were zero incidents ? She didn’t need to google how to harm babies she is a nurse and knows how to do that .

[@normankennith7919]

LUCY WAS THEIR 'GET OUT OF GAOL' CARD! THE HOSPITAL & THE COURT COLLUDED TO PERSUADE A GULLIBLE, MEDICALLY IGNORANT JURY OF ONLY 11 JURORS, STRANGE! 8 OF WHOM WERE WOMEN! THIS WAS AN IMBALANCED JURY FOR SUCH AN EMOTIVE CASE!! THE JUDGE & THE PROSECUTOR WERE BOTH CORRUPT & SHOULD BE 'DEFROCKED'? THERE SHOULD BE A NEW TRIAL, WHICH COULD REPLACE THE INQUIRY AND LUCY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO APPEAL AGAINST THE HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS 'GUITY' VERDICT 'AWARDED' HER! EVERYBODY WHO GAVE EVIDENCE AT THE FIRST TRIAL OR WERE IN ATTENDANCE SHOULD BE SUBPOENA'D TO APPEAR AT A RETRIAL! THEY NEED TO BE PRESSED ON WHY A SEWAGE LEAK IN THE NEO NATAL UNIT, WHICH LASTED FROM JUNE 2015 TO SPRING 2016! THE SAME PERIOD WHEN LUCY WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE KILLED 7 BABIES! THIS EVIDENCE ALONE SHOULD HAVE EXONERATED LUCY!!!

[@biancaclennett]

​there were incidents when she wasn't there. That fact was removed so the jury and public would believe with no doubt that she was guilty. This removal of statistical evidence (that a number of other babies did in fact die when she was not there) is a huge factor for people asking for this to be looked at again.

[@beans2744]

@@biancaclennett nonsense

[@barbarapeers7896]

I don't know if L.L. is innocent but i certainly dont think she was found guilty 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

[@BigDog366]

David Davis is the best PM Britain never had.

[@user-it3rm8dv7r]

I have a gut feeling and cant shift it i think its got to be looked at it again and make sure its not all circumstances

[@davidpearson243]

Iv never felt comfortable about this conviction !!!!

[@liamfox1981]

Fair play to him. A Tory concerned about justice, wow

[@raymondgreenwood9617]

I don't know whether her conviction was safe. Some cast doubt from the beginning. There needs to be transparency. Otherwise, due to the 2+ tier policing and judiciary all sorts of theories are likely to circulate.

[@sammysmith9638]

Poor Lucy. My gut always told me this was a cover up.

[@peterfraney7931]

Poor babies more like

[@peterfraney7931]

Poor babies more like

[@elvischrist8826]

Your gut 😂😂😂 grow up

[@Ralstro]

The 'Confession' letter and post it note clinched it for me. It was a massive red herring. If it had been written as a confession, why hadn't she destroyed it? She must be an intelligent girl to have got as far as she did. Given her treatment at work she must have anticipated the possibility of police involvement at some stage. The document mentions how she has failed her parents and they did not deserve a daughter like her. Hardly the words of a psychopath, they do not care a jot what others think. The "I did this" line read to me as a bout of pure self loathing and guilt at failing in a professional capacity. It looks like a case of mental self harming from someone who cares deeply about her job.

[@kgar1920]

The thrust of the trial didn’t even focus on that letter. I followed the trial. She is guilty.

[@bradleyday5829]

​@kimgha1920 So did I, from day one an your talkin crap

[@ruthbashford3176]

@@kgar1920 Lucy is innocent

[@ruthbashford3176]

@@bradleyday5829 How can anyone possibly still believe Lucy is guilty?

[@Cvideoshare]

How is taking only the specific babies that died on her shifts and saying ‘who was on shift for these deaths? Irrevocable Evidence!??? A Complete fallacy, as he said. Is our country stupid???

[@hiboo6012]

better to blame one person, than have to pay out millions, for neglect.

[@johnmunro4952]

But they had a trial and jury found her guilty. Yeah every miscarriage of justice had a trial and was found guilty by a jury.

[@Anonymous1-be7gs]

Why was she checking up on parents years after the deaths if she had nothing to do with it?

[@vince6219]

I watched the documentary and I am appalled at this trial, I am convinced that she is innocent and that evidence was omitted, our justice system is a total shambles, they may as well have used the ducking stool. She deserves a retrial ASAP, before her life has been wasted in prison!!!. How many more people have been wrongfully imprisoned!?.. disgraceful!!!!

[@janewise2547]

Lucy is innocent

[@rosiewaterhouse2636]

Time for case to be accepted by Criminal Cases Review Commission and sent to Court of Appeal

[@creepycrawlything]

I'm totally supportive of David Davis's approach in this Lucy Letby case. The proper focus is a systemic critique of the prosecution's "circumstantial" "evidence". His grasp of how jury's are influenced by the prosecution presentation of "evidence", is good. I think he then needs the support of social scientists, especially social psychologists, to bring out the granularity and power of that influencing. Nothing that Davis here had to say, was poorly considered or articulated

[@joycejnn]

How come Lucy was present at every incident and when she wasn’t there there were zero incidents. The woman is sick . She brought home and kept loads of mementos . She wasn’t allowed to bring any documents home .

[@normankennith7919]

i've been saying since january most of what david davis said in this interview! however, david did not mention the smoking gun, elephant in the room, canary in the coalmine or the dog in the bed!! namely, the most important evidence given at the trial but dismissed as being irrelevant by the corrupt judge, which was the sewage leak in the neo natal unit that occurred from june 2015 to spring 2016! the exact period when lucy was accused of killing 7 babies! this evidence was given by the plumber who was called in weekly when the leak was too bad!! raw sewage leaked through the ceiling above the neo natal unit, while sewage also spewed up through the plughole of the sink in which the nurses washed their hands! i wonder if the parents of the dead babies were aware of this & if they were, what explanation did they get from the hospital? unlike mr davis, i am 100% certain lucy is innocent! she is the victim of a major cover up in which the hospital & the court colluded to make sure that lucy would be the scapegoat, to protect the names & reputations of doctors & management in the hospital!!!

[@creepycrawlything]

@@joycejnn. Davis argues two responses to the being present and absent idea: firstly, that professional statisticians point out that the idea is fallacious, is wrong; secondly, that five deaths were left out of consideration, where the absence-present framing idea did not apply. His background thinking here, is that the real culprit for the deaths may be the condition of the hospital care. The idea that Letby was "sick", was bought into by the presiding judge, suggesting that it was an inherent part of the prosecution's characterisation of Letby; but no material evidence as to her actually being "sick", was ever presented. Davis acknowledges that taking medical records home, may have been a "sackable" offence, but he argues that this also suggests the possibility that Letby was simply conscientious. My own sense is, that it is likely that this characterisation of Letby as 'abnormal' and "sick", is the weakest and most pernicious aspect of the prosecution circumstantial evidence; and this begging questions as to the motivation and mindset of those doing the prosecuting. All that said, I respect your differing judgement of these matters.

[@biancaclennett]

​@@joycejnnlong story short - they did not provide the jury with the statistics of the deaths when Lucy was not on shift. If they did it would have dropped down to a far lower percentage than the 100% they presented the jury. That would have made the hospital look far worse than this nurse. Regarding the notes - plenty of nurses have come out and said that changeover notes stay on their person or in their possession in case they need to refer to them again.

[@ruthbashford3176]

@@joycejnn That is simply not true as there were 10 deaths of babies when Lucy was not on duty. Lucy leaving the neonatal unit coincided with the hospital being downgraded to a level 1 and not treating babies of less than 32 weeks gestation. Taking home documents whether allowed to or not has nothing to do with mass murder.

[@rosiewaterhouse2636]

As a questioning journalist, who has doubts about the safety of Lucy Letby conviction I thought the Channel5 programme Did she Really di it? was important in raising doubts to a TV audience already expressed in print eg Justice Gap + MD in Private Eye, Guardian + Telegraph. Hats off Channel 5 and TV prod co.

[@trevorchap21]

Have followed Lucy's case closely for the last year and am now more confident than ever that she will be freed if her case is properly presented to the CCRC.The Telegraph article is a game changer.The police indicated after the first trial that they had looked into the possibility of water borne bacteria.If information has been concealed from them then this is perverting the course of justice.

[@uingaeoc3905]

@@trevorchap21 oh yeah sure - water born bacteria with artificial insulin and causes intubation removal and liver injuries. and over feeding vomiting.

[@jackiesmith2710]

Absolutely no evidence! an innocent women in jail let's hope she's not murdered in jail

[@musicfuhrer]

There was plenty of evidence and a jury convicted her.

[@tejswn]

No evidence? I'd rather believe the jury than a random comment here

[@jackiesmith2710]

@@tejswn Jury never got all the important information

[@jeremygough1387]

Convicted after a long trial carried out in full view. And it's woman not women.

[@Nick_80599]

She is now safer in jail than she would be in the public because even if she's let off, there are always people who will believe that she is guilty

[@markhutton6055]

I notice there us still no mention of the other 8 babies who died, who they couldn't pin on Letby.

[@XtraterrestrialSubud]

My question is, why were secret cameras not installed? They were cheap at the time and would have had a negligible effect on the hospital's budget. Even obvious CCTV cameras would have been of enormous help in this case. The hospital administrators were certainly not up to the job.

[@normankennith7919]

THE HOSPITAL COULDN'T AFFORD THEM BUT THEY ALSO DIDN'T WANT THEM INSTALLED BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE PROVED LUCY WAS INNOCENT & IT WAS IN FACT A FAILURE OF THE HOSPITAL! LUCY IS 100% INNOCENT!!

[@WesleyWattley-xy4fg]

Absolutely 💯

[@perarduaadastra873]

Doctors do not wish to expose themselves to be held to account by the scrutiny of their work being video recorded. I nearly died as a result of a surgeon’s hubris and I was shocked to be told there was no video recording in theatre of my operation nor of any operations.

[@Salopian_mumbles]

The camera itself might be cheap, but the SIA licenseed staff that are required to monitor it certainly won't be cheap. It's a legal requirement that anyone who monitors live CCTV or view recorded footage to have a SIA license. A building the size of the Countess of Cheshire Hospital would need a small army of workers employed around the clock 24hrs to be able to effectively monitor CCTV cameras.

[@leegreenhough8268]

Easy to say, difficult to implement. Over-monitoring in the work place can have an extremely toxic effect, that can undermine staff who need to make quick judgement calls about care, moreover, erode trust between staff and employers. Im not sure that patients, or their parents would be content to be on video camera at their most vulnerable time, and/or trust that the hospital will protect the data and destroy it appropriately. These adverse effects need to be balanced against the benefits of improved accountability.

[@jaynerees5459]

I’ve always had a funny feeling about this case ! Shocking !

[@ShaunBain]

Even if she is innocent her life is ruined forever anyway.

[@mjowsey]

But ATM she's going to die in prison but if she's found to be not guilty she'll be able to live in the Caribbean with a big bag of compensation money.

[@lauraj8429]

So why doesn’t he just visit her then??

[@katherineleflufy7693]

Making no judgement as to whether she is or isn't innocent what really gets me every bloody time it happens is when people make jmudgements about the emotions that people show or appear to show in extreme situations. How the hell does anyone know how they would react - the mental health system does it worst of all, I have met some people having been in some horrific situations and villified for the level of emotion they have shown, and in a minor way been in that situation myself - to me it is a terrible indictment on a serious lack of empathy, humility and compassion that is prevalent these days - and this idiotic expectation of a specific overt expression of what is going on in the inside, going straight past the more subtle matters of inner turmoil

[@Pottawattamie]

Having experience of neonatal care first hand and subsequently having worked in care I have not decided either way because I know how these intense chaotic environments lead to these type of incidents and typically there is one scapegoat so the organisation maintains it's reputation.

[@michaelnewbury2856]

How long do we have to wait before there is justice in this case? LET RIGHT BE DONE.

[@elainewright3555]

Lucy letby had a media trial

[@elvischrist8826]

No she didn't dont be silly, it was in a court.

[@philholding6905]

@@elvischrist8826 that's not nice, but funny

[@pat23668952]

The question is not whether she is guilty or not guilty, but rather if the withholding of evidence affected the outcome.

[@0ldb1ll]

This would not be the first time that a hospital, a large public organisation, has steam rollered a dedicated, over worked, guilt-ridden individual into being a scape goat in order to cover THEIR OWN guilty inefficiency. The Post Office scandal being a very recent classic case.