James Ingram, composer: Life with Stockhausen

[@samuel_andreyev]

If anyone has questions for James, drop them below.. you may receive a response!

[@mikrophonie5633]

Roger Smalley, who was mentioned, was a member of the group Intermodulation, which recently had a 4CD set released titled Connections, which features the group playing various Stockhausen pieces.

[@notator]

I was a year or two too young to have been part of _Intermodulation_ or _Gentle Fire_ (Hugh Davies' group). I remember Roger being treated as a something of a VIP when he arrived to help with the _Inori_ parts. Maybe because he was a respected academic? He was given the best room in the house to sleep in, and had to be given the _piano part_ to copy. I also remember him insisting on aligning stems to the _centres_ of noteheads, rather than to the side in the usual way. All part of the attitude that graphic information has something to do with temporal information. The reality is that graphic information is only related to graphic perception (legibility) not time. And the standard pitch/chord symbols have evolved to be highly legible and spatially economic...

[@25thFloors]

Fantastic interview. The point he made about the return to ancient music is fascinating. Thank you, I discovered a great musical mind.

[@lucassiccardi8764]

Fascinating interview that goes straight to the philosophical heart of contemporary music's problems.

[@Cleekschrey]

And one of the most fertile moments in all of music history

[@bazingacurta2567]

The most important contemporary music problem is why no one wants to listen to it, not the stuff they discuss here.

[@BarnardoP]

No one?

[@ChainsawCoffee]

Lovely interview! His mention of "clusters" made me think about counterpoint composition rules, where sequential notes of the same tone are considered to be the same note. So in performance, a note could be played as temporal subdivisions, without the composition being considered to be changed. Another way to look at a "cluster" is slash notation, but for orchestral music. The players would be instructed what sort of general interpretation is expected.

[@RichardIngram-xf7kw]

Such an impressive and wonderful interview James, very interesting and informative, and a great record of your work with Stockhausen. Thanks so much for sharing.

[@josemarialacarra8554]

Since a couple of years I'm slowly falling into Stockhausen's music. Thanks for this.

[@lepoisson]

You mention James' experience as a live-in copyist is unique - this is true but I think it important to mention Chou Wen-chung as a great facilitator for Varèse in his years studying under him and beyond.

[@dc4bass]

Thank you so much for this amazing interview and your incredible KZbin channel the best!

[@robbes7rh]

It'😊s so enriching hearing James casually discussing the world of the post modern avant guard that he lived right in the middle of as Stokhausen's copyist and editor. Good questions throughout by Samuel prompted mostly fond but chrystal clear remembrances.

[@rameau6577]

What a gem. I could easily listen to two hours more of this great talk.

[@prototropo]

This conversation is a wonderful service to the community! More interviews with the intellectuals of our era are welcome and nourishing.

[@BarnardoP]

So glad to have discovered this interview. I remember an article by James Ingram showing some of his ideas for experimental notation, so I was aware of the polymathic range this remarkable musician and thinker possesses! I also own many scores by Stockhausen, which will have been produced in part due to Mr Ingram’s skills over many years. Early in this interview the discussion of Inori seemed to bring surprise to the interviewer in the relationship between the orchestration and the many levels of dynamic. A single visual page from that score could have made clear the connection for those who haven’t heard the work. With such a large orchestra playing initially (over many minutes) just one pitch but in different combinations and durations we would see why the exacting orchestration was described by a simple number between 1-60 changing for each note! I would be interested to hear the experiences of gradual adoption of computer engraving by the Stockhausen Verlag during the years described. In my remembered wait for some of the big scores from Montag aus Licht to reach publication I was wondering how they would look and whether the learning of new software was causing any troubles. In various scores we can see Stockhausen’s manuscript alongside other sections fully engraved. The published solo Klavierstuck XIV is in manuscript, but within Act II of Montag the same piano part is elegantly engraved. Later opera scenes, which have consistent computer engraving and even colour printing, such as in Weltparlament for choir, are testament to the ongoing technical publishing tools’ development as well as the composer’s invention and the copyist’s skill.

[@notator]

I could write a whole essay about the gradual adoption of computer engraving at the Verlag! 🙂The key dates can be found in my CV (on my website). I'm very interested in the relation of technology to the evolution of culture, so I'll probably get round to it soon. The photocopy machine (early 1970s) was the final nail in the coffin for traditional music publishers, whose markets had been diminishing consistently anyway since the invention of audio recording... Stockhausen's scores are sometimes engraved and sometimes manuscript, for the same reason that UE left the scene: We couldn't keep up. Engraving took too long, even though we tried to bring in more copyists. Stockhausen wanted to publish Klavierstuck XIV quickly, and we were very busy with other projects at the time. When the time came to publish _Act II of Montag_ , _Mädchenprozession_ was given completely to Michael Manion, who (like Antonio Perez-Abellan later) used my Freehand Plugins. (You can find a list of the software we were using at the link below Stockhausen on my website). Stockhausen was very particular about crediting his team: Every score has credits on a fly-leaf near the beginning. _Weltparlament_ says that I was the copyist, and Michael Manion was my assistant. I think Michael must have done the Finale input. I definitely completed the score, doing all the coloured dynamics in FreeHand, before finalizing it with Stockhausen.

[@notator]

P.S. There is an example, containing a few bars of Inori, near the beginning of my Article _On Being Invisible_ . There's a link to _that_ at the bottom of my homepage. The stafflines in the instrumental parts represent dynamics: The bottom line is _pp_ , the top line is _ff_ . As I remember, there is no _mp_ .

[@BarnardoP]

@ Thanks for the reply! It is (as already appreciated) a testament to team collaboration that such a workload was accomplished with great success. The, often hefty, published scores include an abundance of information on performance requirements, premiere musicians, etc etc with the typesetting and translation, photographs of stagings, and equipment used revealing an even larger team than involved in the partitur section itself! I can imagine the years of frenzied production of so much material as being an intense as well as a rewarding one.

[@joshuacarro]

This is your best podcast to date imo. WOW

[@jedtulman46]

Beautiful discussion of tempi. Thanks to you both.

[@EdoFrenkel]

Very nice conversation. A treasure to hear James speak. Heartening to hear his prescription/prediction of what should/will happen c. 1hr in.

[@MichaelSlovin]

Can't wait to listen to this. Very excited.

[@DietervonBraun1973]

I just discovered something about the Chopin runs and trills that surprised me. I was playing (and analysing) in slow motion more then 10 recordings of a nocturne by pianists from the Liszt pupil generation upto modern pianists and I discovered that the older generations born before 1900 still counted and subdivided their trills and runs. The later generations were trying to trill freely and try to feel themselves through those long embelishment figures on intuition. The older generations did not sound stiff by the way, and they all had their own clever ideas on how to subdivide trills and runs. And to hide these subdivisions.

[@TractorCountdown]

Fantastic. Really interesting, especially on the subject of time. Thank you.

[@danantoniumaestrodistortion]

This is amazing can't wait to finish it!

[@maestroukr]

I would love to hear Ingram's "beyond the symbolic." Is there a recording available?

[@notator]

Thanks for the interest! :-) The answer is a bit long and complicated, so I've replied in one place -- to @HANECart1960

[@Warp75]

Great upload thank you so much

[@AetherPavilion]

Illuminating. Thank you for sharing. As a layperson, still trying to get my head around this discussion. A dumb question arises: live jazz performers using stated keys and chords as event symbols rather than precise notation in improvising their way through a piece of music - is that sort of what you’re talking about?

[@notator]

Yes.

[@georgeholloway3981]

I don't think so, because he's talking about how even fully notated pieces can potentially contain something more in the sonic result than what is apparently notated, and yet some composers (he seems to include even Stockhausen in this) notate their music as if there is nothing beyond what is literarily indicated by the notation- hence his statement that said composers never thought about performance practice.

[@AetherPavilion]

@@georgeholloway3981 Interesting and thanks for your reply. This is a challenging topic for a music hobbyist like me. By the way, not sure if you noticed James Ingram’s comment response to my question just above your response.

[@notator]

The point is really, that so long as you can classify some (possibly long and complicated) temporal occurrence as an _event_ you can use any symbol you like to give it a spatial representation. The symbol could be something as simple as a "V" in figured bass. There could be many different but "correct" temporal event information blocks corresponding to the symbol. A performer wouldn't necessarily have to copy any of the example performances exactly. The symbol is only there as a _reminder_ of what the performer knows about the usual ways of interpreting the symbol. @georgeholloway3981: Sorry to be nitpicky, but I don't think "fully notated pieces" _ever_ contain all the information that is transmitted by human performers.

[@AetherPavilion]

@ Thank you, James. I really appreciate the added explanation. I find this topic fascinating. As for Stockhausen, he had a big impact on my ventures into experimental music, even if I didn’t fully grasp his theoretical underpinnings and motives. Best wishes.

[@guyanderton]

I found song six on James' website well worth a listen how wonderful. just wondering if the discussion on about scores is to do with " sound objects"? as talked about through spectromorphology. really interesting talk thank you both.

[@OpenmusicEs]

Brilliant dialogue and great to listen from the horses mouth (!) the experiences with Stockhausen. It took me by surprise the omission of similar "neoclassical" (scholastic?) approaches to notation in Early Music: you mentioned ensemble P.A.N. (fantastic musicians) and they have some of the Ars Subtilior repertoire recorded; when transcribed to modern standard notation Subtilior pieces look extremely complicated. Same happens with John Baldwin in the late sixteenth century and many other experimental composers that, among other considerations, might have been obsessed with finding the "real notation". While early composers or schools were concerned with keeping the notation(s) as "natural to the eye" as possible, so to speak, composers like Ferneyhough are doing exactly the opposite resulting in the usual: WTF! it'll take me ages to get to the third bar of this!! You also mentioned Scelsi. I have always thought his music might be better (or differently) approached using the score as an improvising source, otherwise the interpreter is just an "interpreter" and less of a partner/musician trying to enter Scelsi's wonderful world of sounds, by the way somehow connected with the Italian Ars Subtilior (his second piece for solo sax has a tinge of Zacara da Teramo's manneristic melodies). Leonardo da Vinci gave us the best definition of music when he states: "Music is the form of the invisible things." Hence notation (our visible friend or foe) will be always dealing with the real (invisible) thing. Thanks for sharing!

[@notator]

Very Interesting! :-) Re Scelsi: I don't know much about him. so was taken a bit by surprise in the interview. I'd like to add, that I don't think music is going to get much further if its based on improvisation. I think _writing_ was the key to developing polyphony in the first place, so we need to get attitudes to _writing_ (notation) sorted out...

[@georgeholloway3981]

Is there a recording of Beyond the Symbolic? I really appreciate his notion that experimental music can utilize traditional/lyrical gestures.

[@notator]

Thanks for the interest! :-) The answer is a bit long and complicated, so I've replied in one place -- to @HANECart1960

[@lukasrussell5905]

My dad interviewed Stockhausen for a BBC radio 3 program, he says that the last question he asked Stockhausen was “Kontakte still sounds like it could’ve been written yesterday, why do you think that is” to which Stockhausen responded something like “it is because I was born not on this Earth, on the star Sirius”

[@Electrasound]

I'm not surprised at this response. Do you have a link to the interview? A friend of Stockhausen who is also a psychologist told me he believes Stockhausen had schizophrenia.

[@lukasrussell5905]

@@Electrasoundthe program was called Stockhausen at 70, I don’t think it’s online but if you’re really keen I have a digitised copy I could put up.

[@patrickmorehead9537]

@@lukasrussell5905 I’d be interested!

[@andrewlord3398]

That was sensational. Gripping. Such a pragmatic viewpoint. My questions for James might be: assuming performers are not accurately reproducing these complex scores, for the reasons James eloquently articulated, does he think the result is noticeably different from a more accurate rendition? What is the shortest interval of time that is perceptible to the human ear? Therefore might some of these scores be unnecessarily complex, and if so, what was the motivation for writing them like this?

[@notator]

Is the result is noticeably different from a more accurate rendition? Depends how different it is! :-) Presumably, Stockhausen would like future live renditions of his pieces to have timings that are fairly (indistinguishably?) close to what's on the CD, but for the concrete aural result to be tailored optimally for the given acoustic. CDs can't do that. There's no way to avoid local acoustics. What is the shortest interval of time that is perceptible to the human ear? The shortest possible duration of a perceptible event varies according to what the sound is, but I think its usually around 2 milliseconds. My SVG-MIDI scores use a _logical_ resolution of 1 millisecond, which should be quite enough. The durations _actually produced_ by my Assistant Performer depend on the power, latency etc. of the hardware. I'm currently quite happy on that front. Javascript and the Web Audio API are _very_ fast ! Might some of these scores be unnecessarily complex, and if so, what was the motivation for writing them like this? I'm not sure which scores you are referring to. I certainly think that many scores written on paper are unnecessarily complex. _Why_ people write scores the way they do is not my province. _My_ scores are prototypes, so they are deliberately intended to test the limits of what can be done. There's no point in modelling production software on a model that's immediately going to collapse under stress.

[@Cleekschrey]

Thank you!

[@jgmbennett]

Great interview! So many facets! So many basic questions! Is a composition played only once a failure? Is notation only a reminder? Will there be no more Schoenbergs in the future? A related question but not addressed is: Are composition and improvisation equally important in music?

[@notator]

Most of my failures just fail to make it online. I just publish things/concepts that I think are working. That's the way to make progress... Will there be no more Schoenbergs in the future? Contrary to Schönberg's time, we now live in a culture that supports many different kinds of performance practice. There are many different groups of players specialised for different periods of music. I see no reason why (different kinds of) written new music should not take its place alongside them. But that also means that the era of the superstars is over. Are composition and improvisation equally important in music? See my reply (about improvisation) to @OpenmusicEs.

[@adamlykkegaard7289]

Thank you so much for this interview! James writings are some of the most interesting ive ever read. Does a recording of "beyond the symbolic" exist? I would love to hear it!

[@notator]

Thanks for the interest! :-) The answer is a bit long and complicated, so I've replied in one place -- to @HANECart1960

[@guitarnut1800]

Did Mr. Ingram work on notating the Helicopter Quartet? Also, Sam and James should check out the compositions of Dusan Bogdanovic. He studied composition with Ginastera and has recently retired to Geneva (Sam, you should interview him) and now has a new composition being published about once a month by Les Productions D'Oz. A unique Synthesis of classical, jazz, and world/ethnic music, drawing from forms and composition techniques of all music periods,sometimes all in the same piece.

[@notator]

The score of _Helikopter-Streichquartett_ credits me as an "assistant". The notation for the players is Stockhausen's manuscript, with straight, coloured glissando lines between the noteheads. As I remember, S. wanted the glissandi to have the same colours as in the Protools screenshots reproduced later in the score, so I had to replace the original lines with new ones. (I _think_ the original manuscript had coloured glissando lines, but they weren't the same as in the Protools screenshots -- made while mixing the CD.) S. made an interesting comment: "The Protools screenshots are the _real_ score." :-)

[@guitarnut1800]

Wow, completely fascinating! Have you ever been involved with xennakis' notations? I find his and Berio's very appealing to the eyes. Also what are your thoughts on his homemade computer that utilized a graphic notation stylus touchscreen, similar to the CMI Fairlight, albeit, I think maybe more advanced...

[@notator]

@guitarnut1800 I never met, nor copied any Xenakis. As a student, I knew a few scores, of course. Pithoprakta, Metastaseis and Eonta spring to mind... I don't really know enough about the hardware he used, but suspect that it would have somehow implemented the contemporary "time is like space" paradigm.

[@guitarnut1800]

Thanks for your insight. That seems to be the driving creative force for these modern composers, including Zappa (xenochrony, conceptual continuity continuum, recording voices and instruments at half tempo, etc.), Varese (Calder mobile abstraction), Babbitt. They seem to be purely inspired by mathematics and space-time. True explorers.

[@mattdowie92]

I want to ask James if he thinks that a computer rendering/performance (from MIDI to audio) of a score will ever make performances by live musicians obsolete for contemporary music. I believe Frank Zappa had these hopes about the Sybclavier as he could get an audio performance of a piece that is a completely accurate performance from the score (albeit with virtual instruments which sound dated to our ears).

[@notator]

Could MIDI performances make live musicians obsolete? Certainly not. You could ask the same question about any pure electronic music. Gesang der Jünglinge is a masterpiece, but only of its type. Likewise, MIDI files that are compositions in their own right are, of course, possible. But in practice, music is more interesting if there are multiple ways to perform a score "correctly". As Birtwistle used to say (about composition): "Its all in the details." MIDI can be used to store and retrieve temporal information as simple text in computer files. That temporal information can be transferred to a human performer's memory in real time. And music _lives_ as a form of communication between human minds. Listening to a live performer is to know what its like to be somebody else -- that there's someone else out there. And its nice to know that we are not alone...

[@mattdowie92]

@notator thanks for your reply, Mr.Ingram 😀

[@Cleekschrey]

I’m curious about James preferred tools and techniques for these jobs

[@henriknielsen8305]

The Beato of classical. Great content!

[@MarkPalmer-t9f]

Who came up with his distinctive sharp rhomboid tail on his note values instead of the usual curve?

[@notator]

When I arrived, straight flags had been normal in Stockhausen's scores for many years. As I remember, that was one of the many fights he had had with UE's traditional engravers. In many cases they had had to re-tool. So, when it came to designing the font for the Stockhausen-Verlag, we were agreed from the start that straight flags were better than curvy ones. We developed the font together. I did all the character editing before giving him proofs for approval. So I was the one who saw precisely how pointy corners on the outside edges of the straight flags interact with staff lines, so gave them that distinctive shape. The pointy corners act a bit like serifs in making things easier to see and read at a low level. Something similar is going on in the Optima typeface we used for titles.

[@bazingacurta2567]

Why is Dr. Wilson from Dr. House interviewing James Ingram?

[@gepmrk]

I think I really need to hear Beyond the Symbolic.

[@samuel_andreyev]

Likewise. How about it, James?

[@grog0cean]

@@gepmrk I would like to hear it as well. I’d also like to see his scores.

[@notator]

Thanks for the interest! :-) The answer is a bit long and complicated, so I've replied in one place -- to @HANECart1960

[@HANECart1960]

can you link to some of his music??

[@samuel_andreyev]

Unfortunately the recordings appear to be difficult to find online. Perhaps James can help?

[@HANECart1960]

@@samuel_andreyev ok thnx. I like his attitude that "well they were experiments some didn't work". makes me want to hear some !!

[@notator]

This is a bit complicated. Sorry if this reply is a bit long! :-) The _Compositions_ section on my homepage contains links to three Studies, Song Six, and the documentation for my earlier, paper scores. _Study 1_ , _Study 2_ and _Study 3_ are best played _live_ , while following the scores, in the _Assistant Performer_ web application. There are links to the _Assistant Performer_ and _its_ documentation on my homepage. For technical reasons, _Song Six_ can no longer be played _live_ , but there are archived recordings in _its_ documentation. The Assistant Performer plays a few other scores as well. These pieces are all "proofs of concept" -- preparing the ground for pieces that are supposed to be performed by humans. I have recordings of the following compositions, all written on paper before 2000, but neither a 1/4 inch tape recorder, nor a Betamax player, so I can't play them: _Possible Developments_ (exemplary performance Wigmore Hall, London 1981, 1/4 inch tape) _Vectors_ (Donaueschingen 1978. Two different recordings: Studio and Concert, 1/4 inch tape) _beyond the symbolic_ (Ensemble Intercontemporain 1982, 1/4 inch tape) _The Innocent Bystander_ (BBC Singers, London 1987, Betamax cassette) The Vectors performance was fine (Ernest Bour and the Südwestfunk Orchestra did their best -- but I was still finding my feet). I wasn't entirely happy with either of the other performances. The performers were experienced professionals doing their best, but it was difficult to get them to _phrase creatively_ . I was fighting the absence of an existing performance practice tradition... I think performers might find it easier nowadays, so we could try again. Any offers? :-) Apropos: I recently made new performance material for _The Probability of Harmony_ (Alto Flute, Clarinet in A, Conductor and mp3 audio file). The audio file is played so quietly that it can't be heard when the players are playing, so it can simply be played on a laptop. There is no complicated sound setup. This little piece was played successfully many times in the 1970s and 1980s, but there is no recording. I've been trying to find some takers, so far without success. It _could_ be played in a concert with its companion piece _Possible Developments_ .

[@HANECart1960]

@@notator Thnx very much for this reply!! I have listened to some of the recordings on the site and they are very interesting even if just the computer playing them!

[@stephenweigel]

I’m deadly curious about your thoughts on microtonality James - a promising and colorful direction, but one that’s harder for large orchestras, the more xenharmonic it sounds. Creating microtonal compositions seems to fit with the “smaller, technology-based” model. I would be curious to know if Toby Twining’s “Chrysalid Requiem” or Paul Dolden’s “Beyond the Walls of Jericho” sound new to you

[@notator]

Just listened to both Toby Twining’s “Chrysalid Requiem” and Paul Dolden’s “Below the Walls of Jericho”. Both very impressive in their own ways, of course. To be honest, I enjoyed the Dolden more than the Twining -- that has something to do with _event durations_ , but I'd rather not go into details here. I'm not a music critic. :-)

[@notator]

Hi @stephenweigel, sorry but the above was my _second_ reply to your question. The first, more detailed one, got deleted by KZbin, probably because I included a hyperlink. Here's the first reply again, without the explicit link. I didn't know either of the pieces you mentioned, but agree with you completely, that microtones are a promising and colourful direction to go. There's a whole universe out there waiting to be explored. My projects include a GUI-less _Resident Synthesizer_ that can be installed and used on any website. Its controlled using MIDI commands sent from a host web application installed on the same website. I'm currently using it in both the _Assistant Performer_ and in the _ResidentSynth Host_ web applications. (There are links on my homepage.) The _ResidentSynth_ 's tuning can be changed instantly between a large number of different Baroque and microtonal tunings using MIDI messages. I haven't composed any microtonal pieces for it yet (that could be played by the Assistant Performer), but if you have a MIDI Input device (such as a keyboard) plugged in to your computer, you can play it _live_ using the _ResidentSynth Host_ web application (see the link on my homepage) . Note that the Host can be run on multiple machines at the same time. Live performance with ensembles is possible. Apropos notation of microtones: If the synthesizer is set up the way you want it, you can use ordinary standard pitch/chord symbols to designate the keys you need to press... There's full _documentation_ of both the ResidentSynth and the Host on my website.

[@stephenweigel]

@@notator I just tried out Resident Synth Host and Assistant Performer - love the interface, such a great tool to use! Is it possible to have custom microtunings in Resident Synth Host? I tried out the other 4 (Pythagorean, 1/4 meantone, 1/3 meantone, and perfect 7th harmonic). Assistant Performer's look reminds me of openmusic. Man it would be cool to load some midi data in there and then be able to go through the score as its own practice tool... I looked at Erratum and Pianola using it

[@stephenweigel]

@@notator Edit - Thanks for pointing out that custom tuning is possible through selecting drop downs in the "tuning group" window. Having fun playing around with it!

[@elliottabaza]

Where can I hear the piece that got booed?

[@notator]

I'm afraid you can't, but thanks for the interest! :-) The reason is a bit long and complicated, so I've replied in one place -- to @HANECart1960

[@grog0cean]

Too bad you can’t even google this man because of the other James Ingram

[@samuel_andreyev]

Yeah, it’s rough

[@iemandanders353]

type "British composer" first

[@notator]

You could try adding Stockhausen.

[@yamtssfa1]

Mr Ingram's experiences have some similarity to that of Eric Fenby and the composer Delius

[@DmitriBron1973]

I think the preservation, rediscovery, re-evaluation and re-interpretation of music of the past is even more important then a constant stream of new music. What would be the point of creating 100s of scores like Stockhausen if no one can find the time to seriously engage with your work in the future because everybody is bussy with the contemporary music of their day ? I do think that there is new music today by the way, but it just happens to be outside of the conservatory subculture. In music history books written in the 1970ies and beyond they just skip all of jazz and pop music like it has no place in serious music history. There is a world of new music out there. It is only the post darmstadt esthetics of the conservatory culture that has lost its ability to rejuvenate.

[@MrDaigoRiki]

Maybe he had worse than that, schizophrenia maybe. What he’s done is amazing but there’s always the dark side.

[@markbrooks7157]

Too bad so little of the interview was actually devoted to life with Stockhausen. Would have liked to have heard more.

[@Steven_Loy]

Maybe the singer in the 50s Mr Ingram was thinking of is Alfred Deller?

[@ftumschk]

I thought of Deller, too.

[@themusicprofessor]

Absolutely! Alfred Deller is buried about half a mile from my house: a pioneer of countertenor singing and the early music revival and a favourite singer of Britten and Tippett. He's clearly the singer James Ingrams had in mind.

[@notator]

Yes, of course!

[@mediolanumhibernicus3353]

Alfred Deller

[@mediolanumhibernicus3353]

The music of Stockhausen is already dead.

[@robertunwin1148]

Well it still seemed alive and well to me when I heard Stimmung a few months ago at a very well attended concert.

[@mediolanumhibernicus3353]

@ The final twitchings of a corpse…

[@wyattk.4304]

@@mediolanumhibernicus3353oh please 🙄

[@philipconnelly1505]

If people are listening to it (which we are), then it isn't dead.

[@mediolanumhibernicus3353]

The few remaining listeners are the life-support unit. It's a question of time....