Latin American Spanish: Tú vs. Vos (part 3) Chilean vos

[@felipecabrera511]

Regarding the soi/erí situation, at least in the Greater Concepción: - "Vo soi" is usually avoided. You should only use it when talking with very close friends or else it'd sound rude and even vulgar. * There's a variation, "so" (pronounced /so:/ or /soʔ/), that can be extremely friendly or extremely rude depending on the context or tone. - "Vo erí" and "tu soi". Although both are very neutral, the former sounds more "santiaguino" and it's more common in Concepción while the latter is more common on smaller cities except for Lota and Coronel, where "tu so"/"vo so" seems to be prevalent. - "Tu eri" is considered friendly and it's more prevalent among middle and upper class people. There is footage of Sebastián Piñera, president of Chile and one of the richest person in the country, using it on casual speech with his friends and family.

[@tenminutespanish]

Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed explanation. I appreciate your contribution very much!

[@hectorp.c6955]

Por qué escribes “vo” “so” ?Es absolutamente ridiculo . Se escribe “vos sos”. Esto es netamente porque NINGUN chileno pronuncia las “s” pero (sin embargo) si las escriben en otras palabras.... el chileno es ignorante sobre su propio voseo y ni sabe como escribirlo. Nosotros x ejm pronunciamos “Vamo’ a lavarno’ la’ mano’ “ pero si lo escribieramos lo hariamos correctamente “vamos a lavarnos las manos”. Entonces mi pregunta es: por qué siguen escribiendo “vo” o “voh” si es el mismo caso?!?!?!?!?! Respuesta: ignorancia y desconocimiento de nuestra propia lengua

[@felipecabrera511]

@@hectorp.c6955 te equivocas. La respuesta es que como es parte de nuestra habla informal no existe un estándar. Los idiomas cambian, evolucionan y se adaptan, olvidas que en el pasado para muchos el español era simplemente latin mal escrito y mal hablado.

[@hectorp.c6955]

Felipe Cabrera No, no me equivoco. Habla informal quizás, pero usada por el 100% de los chilenos. Duelen los ojos cuando escriben “vo” “tení” “so” porque la cosa aca es que NADIE los pronuncia asi. Los pronunciamos con una “s” aspirada al igual que TODAS las palabras que terminan en “s”. Pero curiosamente no tenemos problemas en escribir la “s” en todaS laS otraS palabraS, no?

[@felipecabrera511]

@@hectorp.c6955 Eso es porque esas palabras son parte del estándar. Por otra parte, la realización de la “s” en posiciones finales no es homogénea, algunos la pronuncian como una aspiración, otros como ⟨ʔ⟩ (glottal stop) y otros ni siquiera la pronuncian. Eso, combinado con que el voseo en Chile no está estandarizado permite que cualquiera de las formas (vos, voh, vo’ y vo) sean correctas, después de todo, muchos idiomas poseen mas de un estándar, como el Noruego (Bokmål y Nynorsk), Inglés (Cambridge y Merrian-Webster) y Hindistani (Hindi y Urdu), que fueron derivados de formas no oficiales de escribir dichos lenguajes. En cambio, tú estás apelando totalmente al elitismo del lenguaje, en creer que tu versión es la correcta cuando realmente lo importante de un lenguaje no es como se escribe sino si sus hablantes pueden entenderse. Y en este caso, puedo escribir vos, voh, vo’ o vo y la gente me va a entender. Ademas, si no existieran desviaciones en la lengua escrita estaríamos escribiendo “farina”, “fablar” y “foguera” aún cuando claramente esa F desapareció del lenguaje hace mas de 500 años.

[@juanjuri6127]

The main difference between "soi" and "eri" is that "soi" (informal "you are") can easily be mistaken for "soy" ("I am"), especially if it's not preceded by a pronoun for clarification. I'd venture to say that a good chunk of people who prefer "vo eri" do so because at one point of their lives they shouted out "(PUTA QUE) SOI WEÓN" and realized that "You're such an idiot" sounds exactly the same as "I'm such an idiot". "Eri" avoids that particular bit of confusion, but in exchange it can be perceived as a somewhat stilted way of speaking in a register that's supposed to be casual by nature. Neither option is inherently more correct, though, since even though voseo has been normalized a lot in the past few decades, it's still seen as a colloquial way of speaking that doesn't need to abide by hard-and-fast rules.

no tenía idea que eramos un país que voseaba como el resto del cono sur y ese wn llego a cambiarlo a tuteo xD con razón la wea quedó deforme

[@rebby2004]

Confirmo, Andres bello dejo la terrible cagada jajajajaj

[@twomasta]

😊😊

[@SachaCubesLatino]

As a Chilean, this is a video I never thought I'd see. It makes for a perfect explanation of the nuances of use for voseo in Chile. I highly value linguistic innovation, since it reminds us that our language is still kicking. Andrés Bello did many good things for my country, but stigmatizing voseo was not one of them. Your Chilean accent attempt was pretty good in the first 2 sentences, then it was terrible for a while, and then it recovered again by the end. Well done!

[@tenminutespanish]

Thanks for the comment. Im glad you liked the video. I agree about linguistic innovation and evolution. I love the variety of Spanish dialects. I know I can't imitate Chilean. I knew before I started it would be bad. I just couldn't see myself using Chilean voseo with a standard accent. Maybe I should have found a Chilean to do it.

[@SachaCubesLatino]

@@tenminutespanish perhaps it might've looked more professional, but no worries. It turned out great 👌🏻

[@gtayfifa-v4f]

buenisimo, por fin alguien que explica esto la forma adecuada de utilizarlo es usando el tú + verbo en voseo (chileno). saludos desde Chile jajaja

[@tenminutespanish]

Martin, gracias por el comentario. Me alegro mucho que te haya gustado el video.

[@veandve]

Chilean here, I loved this video, it explains really well how our voseo works and its history. I wish we could get back our original voseo and restore its formality like Argentina did with Rioplatense. Your Chilean pronunciation was good, perhaps a little bit exagerated on the aspirated s in the middle of words.

[@tenminutespanish]

I'm extremely glad you liked the video. I appreciate your comments. I feel you're being too generous regarding my attempt at Chilean. I know I can't imitate a Chilean accent. But thank you.

[@sergioalfaya1270]

I'm from southeast Santiago in the commune of Puente Alto. Here is I would say where Vo is most used in the capital. Vo widely used among friends and strangers within the same age group, it's specially used by younger people. Sometimes adults refer to teens as Vo as well, but we always use Usted when responding and talking to older folk. Vo is the way people normally spell it. Vos is never ever seen, neither is vo(s). Voh I've seen a couple of times but it's mostly in a sarcastic tone or in TV and more "formal" stuff. I now live in Spain and have used Vo when talking to friends and most people didn't know we used it in Chile. I didn't know how to explain our uses for it and this is a great video to show our unique way of conjugating and speaking to the people I know here. Thank you for making this video and shining a little light on our unique way of speaking

[@tenminutespanish]

Thank you so much for your contribution to the discussion, and thank you for your kind words!

[@gustavovelasquez3207]

Hello, I've watched all your latinamerican spanish videos and this one finally helped me understand Chileans. I speak spanish as my native language but I wasn't understanding my Chilean friend. Now, it is clear. Thank you

[@tenminutespanish]

You're welcome! Thank you for your kind words!

[@catalinaviveros7444]

I liked your video very much, I never stopped to analyse our dialect like this. Plus, I didn't know that aforetime we used to vosear. However, I did notice that my grandparents, who come from rural areas of the central south of the country, some times vosean... rarely. I thought: "That's strange, sometimes they speak like Argentinians", but with a weak S, like "voh soh" instead of "vos sos". About that "cantarí, comerí, vivirí" future tense, I have never heard it in a conversation. However, I do know a cueca song that goes "Te la llevarí, te la llevarí, te la llevarás". It's called "El Marinero", I just remembered. But it's not used at all now, other than that song I have never ever found that future tense. The most used form, in my experience, is a periphrastic future "ir a + infinitivo" or "going to + infinitive". For example: "-¿Vai/vas a ir al colegio mañana? -No, voy a faltar." Instead of: "-¿Irás al colegio mañana? -No, faltaré". We don't have standard rules to write the way we speak, it's mainly oral. I think that's because we are taught that it's wrong . Now I know that it's just the way we speak, it's part of our culture and it's right. You showed it kinda has its logic.

[@tenminutespanish]

Thank you so much for your insightful comments. I really appreciate your contributions to this discussion!

[@Eltipoquevisteayer]

4:49 tbh this Is the first time i read or hear the future form

[@matildawolfram4687]

Good video! My brother studied languages at the Defense Language Institute Foreign Language Center in California. The pace of study was intense. Students had to master the language course in 36-64 weeks. Psychologically it was very difficult, but fortunately he was helped by Yuriy Ivantsiv's book "Polyglot Notes. Practical tips for learning foreign languages”. The book " Polyglot Notes" became a desk book for my brother, because it has answers to all the problems that any student of a foreign language has to face. Thanks to the author of the channel for this interesting video! Good luck to everyone who studies a foreign language and wants to realize their full potential!

[@xolang]

Great video. Bravo! btw, the reason why people would still write "-ís" or "-íh" is because you can still hear the aspirated -S in sentences like "teníH q ir.." or "vivíH muy lejos". same goes for "vos" or "voh". which sounds like "voH teníH q.." in the case of "-ái" this never happens though, which is why barely anyone writes "-áis" because you don't hear any aspirated -S there. and I remembered something to add to the sociolinguistics of voseo in Chile: it expresses emphasis of emotion. so sometimes a person would start talking using tuteo, and then "switch" to voseo when they get emotional. afaik this kind of nuance is not to be found in other areas in LatAm where tuteo is practically not used.

[@tenminutespanish]

Thank you for your contribution!

[@ArturoStojanoff]

In parts of Cordoba and other central Argentinian provinces, especially rural areas and/or lower classes, they use a similar type of voseo. There's a Cordobese song that goes "Si te querí ir, ite", meaning "Si te querés ir, andate" (kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnOvepWnq7N3aJI). I don't think beginner Spanish students need to know that, though, I just found it fun when you said that "i" isn't much of a word in the previous video.

[@tenminutespanish]

How cool! Thanks for contributing.

[@diegomateo4193]

te hago una corrección pequeña, soy de Argentina y sí tmb podemos usar la conjugación del voseo en presente del subjuntivo y en el negativo del imperativo, ambas son correctas junto a la conjugación de tú, por ej: no juegues = no jugués / espero que vos estudies= estudiés

[@hugonunez6920]

I actually have no idea how to write "Voseo" word. Here in Chile it was always loooked down to speak like this. Don't even think about writing "tení" "comí" etc in any formal scenario. I am just learning about this and it's very interesting to me that this way of speaking has formal names.

[@Tommyrava]

I've never seen an academic study of the "chilean voceo", I didn't even know it was called like that. Congratulations, It's great!! you only have a few mistakes that I hope I can help. 1. It is written with no "s" nor "h" at the end. But actually it is almost never written, even if you use it orally, you write it in the standard tuteo form. The voceo form is written only in extremely informal situations such as whatsapping with friends. ¿cachái? 2. The future (futuro imperfecto en voceo chileno) "cantarí, comerí, vivirí," doesn't exist at all. We use "vai a cantar, vai a comer, vai a vivir" instead (The i'm going form). We only use futuro imperfecto in very formal occasions and never in verbal voceo (cantarás, comerás, vivirás). 3. I would say that "Vo soi, Tu erí, Tu eres, Usted es" are increasingly educated and formal. BUT, The more education you have, the more precise and appropriate your uses will be for the different social contexts and emphasis you want to give. On the contrary, with less education, you will have less awareness of the implications of each use and, therefore, will emphasize the first two forms because its use is very common orally with your peers and being used to it. 4. I don't think that there are gender differences at all with usage. It has much more to do with the sociocultural context where you live. As I said, the more education, the more versatility and appropriateness of usage. There might be geographical differences between rural and urban areas, or southern and northerns usages, but is essentially sociocultural and sociolinguistic. Thanks!

[@tenminutespanish]

Thank you very much for your contribution.

[@tenminutespanish]

Thank you for your comment. I like to own my mistakes and not make excuses for them, but I feel I should make a comment here. I didn't invent the information about the verb conjugations. I obtained it from a paper written by Marcela Rivadeneira Valenzuela, from the Universidad Católica de Temuco, in Chile. This leads me to believe that there is more going on here than simple error. I wonder if the future verb tense is something that was used historically even though it isn't used today. The author was maybe more interested in documenting the verb tense rather than discussing whether it is still in use today. Honestly, I don't know. But again, I suspect that there is more going on here than simple error. Regardless, I appreciate you and others letting us know that it isn't used that way. That is important to know.

[@Tommyrava]

@@tenminutespanish It might be a theoretical usage, but I insist that I've never heard or read about that future form, not even as a historical figure. If it was used in old days, I'm not sure, but if it is so, not after year 1900. The formality scale for future verb tense is "vai a ser, vas a ser, and serás.". By the way, we don't say "A qué hora entras/entrái en la escuela", we say "A qué hora entras/entrai al colegio", even if you use the word escuela, you would say "a la escuela". I hope you make more videos about chilean spanish dialect for the english speaking world. And don't worry about a few mistakes, chilean spanish it's very confusing for foreigners, even for other latin americans, but also very rich and verbally resourcefully.

[@tenminutespanish]

Thank once again for your contributions to this discussion and for your kind corrections on my Spanish. I have no doubt that you are correct about everything you have said. I don't argue with natives about their own language. There is no way for me to know what you know. I have written an email to the author of the paper to ask her about the future tense. Hopefully she'll reply.

[@tenminutespanish]

Thank you for your kindness and your kind corrections. I am always trying to learn. I have written an email to the author of the paper about the future tense. Hopefully she can explain why she included a verb tense nobody uses. I'm very curious about the explanation. And I mean that very sincerely. I don't doubt you and the others who have corrected me on this. I'm sure you're 100% right. The author may simply be mistaken, but I suspect there is more to it than that. I'm very interested to hear what she has to say.

[@mrmessenger5584]

Thanks, Dan! Can you ever cover the historical or sociological reasons for ustedes vs. vosotros in the New World & Old World?

[@tenminutespanish]

That's a great topic. I'll add it to the list.

[@CamilieTownsend]

We write the final S normally, but we don't pronounce it when we read it.

[@roldanmolina9735]

compadre, gracias por el trabajo de la información y felicitaciones de un Chileno, no se le quedó nada en el tintero. Saludos de Viña del Mar Chile. vo soi terrible bacán si!!!

[@tenminutespanish]

Gracias por el comentario! Me alegro muchísimo de que te haya gustado el video. Son comentarios así que me motivan a seguir adelante con mi canal.

[@AleksKwisatz]

If Spanish was a video game, the Chilean dialect would be the final boss. It is by far the most difficult to understand in my opinion and, even though I have a good grasp of Spanish, I often find myself unable to understand anything whenever I watch chilean movies. The first time I heard it on a film I had to turn on the subtitles because I thought the actors were speaking Catalan.

[@jeiyo660]

For spanish speakers there is no difficult at all. It must be similar to a spanish speaker trying to understand scotish or irish english.

[@Saicopaz]

Personally I've never heard the future like that, usually it's replaced with "voy a" + infinitive, then it's the normal one from tuteo and I've heard a couple of times using the vosotros conjugation, as in " cantarei, comerei, vivirei" but never cantarí but it's possible.

[@tenminutespanish]

Thank you for your contribution!

[@GaldorasEithel]

Tu pronunciacion del chileno es casi perfecya

[@AlejandroFernandez05]

4:39 I'm Chilean (Santiago), and I have to say, never in my life have I heard this future form. I'll look into it

[@tenminutespanish]

All the Chileans who have commented here have said a similar thing. One said she knew of and old song or poem that used it, but not modern speech.

[@agaga5886]

@@tenminutespanish Yeah, I've also only seen it in old lyrical texts.

[@miguelQR]

I love it

[@tenminutespanish]

Thank you for your kind remark.

[@diugki]

6:59 Also, it's more natural for Chileans to say ¿Cierto? o ¿No-cierto? instead ¿No?

[@tenminutespanish]

Thank you for your insights. We learn a lot from natives who can tell us these things.

[@guntheralcerro1025]

Very good! Thank you! I'm from Honduras and live in California.

[@tenminutespanish]

I'm happy you liked the video!

[@ignatrip]

In Chile we use more tú than vos. There is no rule to write the verb in voseo because in the school we only learn tuteo. The majority use tú + voseo verb but speaking, in the writen way is only tuteo.

[@tenminutespanish]

That is an interesting observation. Thank you.

[@fabbiotec]

@@tenminutespanish WE MJST START LEARNING THIS IN EVERY CHILEAN SCHOOL!!!!

[@tenminutespanish]

@@fabbiotec If you feel that strongly about it, I am happy to agree with you. I think it would be a shame for regional varieties of Spanish to die out and be replaced by some generic version.

[@fabbiotec]

@@tenminutespanish It will never die because it belongs strongly to us but WE ARE NOT FORMED ON IT, academically we have no idea from where it comes from. I guess now we will change that with the constitution. Andre Bello made a huge mistake.

[@kafrur]

Excelent! As you already said, there are some more notes on "usted" as when it is used in formal and informal situations, the same as "you". And the special pronoun "Su merced" or "Su mercé" used in Cundinamarca and Boyacá, Colombia, involving Bogotá, the most populated city in the country.

[@romancarlise]

When you say that there is no difference in preterite, is that the same everywhere? My girlfriend’s Ecuadorian family uses vos, tú, and usted in different contexts, and when they say vos in the preterite, they put an s at the end of the tú form, i.e. tú dijiste->vos dijistes

[@tenminutespanish]

@@romancarlise I don't believe this is specific to vos. I heard lots of people in Ecuador add an -s to preterit forms in tú. It's very common around the Spanish speaking world to add -s to preterit forms in tú.

[@robertogalvez3865]

Cuando veo lo que Andres Bello hizo con el voseo en Chile me recuerda lo que los norteamericanos hicieron con el español en Filipinas donde practicamente extinguieron el idioma. Solo el chabacano sobrevivio a la embestida de quitate tu para ponerme yo. La misma suerte pudieron haber tenido Cuba y Puerto Rico tras la guerra España vs EEUU. pero no fue del interes de EE.UU. hacerlo.

[@robertovilches3096]

Great and precisly video

[@renatomartinez3183]

Although the explanation of "soi/eri" sounds a bit confusing? If they speak me like that? I understand 🙂. No hesitation!!

[@tenminutespanish]

My understanding of soi/erí was incorrect. Some Chileans have given me better information, and I will remake this video with corrections.

[@renatomartinez3183]

@@tenminutespanish Ohh boy, now I'm starting to feel myself guilty for making you work a lot, with this mind blowing language (and editing of the video 😭)

[@tenminutespanish]

@@renatomartinez3183 oh, no, not your fault. I have known for a long time that I need to remake the video.

[@mehakdeepsingh4438]

chilean spanish to spanish world....is what moroccan darija is to the arab world...fast,different.and difficult to understand.

[@titoluco]

It is, I always say this to my Arabic speaking friends, Moroccan Darija is so related to Magrebi dialects of Algeria and Tunisia, and yet differs a lot from them. Same with Chilean dialect, very related to Southen Cone dialects of Argentina and Uruguay, and yet rare and unique.

[@dingolondango4570]

Tú y vo

[@santiagonicolaslopezbravo2624]

Hey, it's similar to voseo zuliano from Venezuela

[@xolang]

it is indeed. even the fact that Zulians aspirate their -s too, so that -áis there practically ends up sounding like -áih. Zulia: pensáis, estáis, te acordáis Chile: pensái, estái, te acordái otros*: pensás, estás, te acordás Zulia: podéis, tenéis Chile: podís, tenís otros*: podés, tenés Zulia: q lo entendáis, podáis, durmáis Chile: q lo entendái, podái, durmái otros*: q lo entendás, podás, durmás *otros países donde se vosea

[@ricardofigueroaarevalo2788]

Me encanta nuestro voseo aunque se le mire vulgar, deberíamos recuperarlo

[@tenminutespanish]

¿Eres chileno? ¿De qué parte de Chile?

[@ricardofigueroaarevalo2788]

@@tenminutespanish ¡De Concepción! Una ciudad histórica, y aunque otrora capital del reino, suele ser poco conocida por los extranjeros

[@tenminutespanish]

@@ricardofigueroaarevalo2788 Muy interesante. No conozco Chile, pero tengo primos en Santiago, y en marzo voy a visitarlos con mi esposa y mi mamá.

[@ricardofigueroaarevalo2788]

@@tenminutespanish Te deseo lo mejor en esta tierra y espero que los reciban muy bien, cualquier cosa que necesites saber sobre mi región, me escribes

[@robertogalvez3865]

Nada vulgar. Lo hablamos más de dos terceras partes de los latinoamericanos, o sea el 66% de la población. Hasta Brasil usa su vose.

[@carolinaperez7100]

Que dicen? Nos estan pelando sobre que?

[@tenminutespanish]

No entiendo tu pregunta. ¿Qué dicen quienes?

[@carolinaperez7100]

@@tenminutespanish no hablo ingles, queria saber de que se trata el video?

[@tenminutespanish]

​@@carolinaperez7100 Ah, ya entiendo. En el video explico cómo los chilenos emplean el tú y el vos. La situación en Chile es única, y muchos extranjeros no saben cómo se habla en Chile. El video va dirigido a estudiantes de español que piensan estudiar o trabajar en Chile y quieren saber más acerca del español chileno.

[@jeiyo660]

Primera vez que veo un tutorial de cómo hablar (y escribir) mal. XD.

[@tenminutespanish]

Jaja! De verdad me hiciste reír.

[@jeiyo660]

Al margen de todo. Felicitaciones por el esfuerzo para hacer este y tus otros videos.

[@sandravictoriamaldonadotri707]

Yo vivo en la Region de Los Lagos y nadie usa el voseo, solo tuteo y usted.

[@tenminutespanish]

Gracias por contribuir. ¿Y cómo se conjugan los verbos en Los Lagos? ¿Entre amigos se dice "tú hablas" y "tú dices"? ¿O se prefiere las formas "tú hablái" y "tú decí"?

[@sandravictoriamaldonadotri707]

@@tenminutespanish Tú hablas, tú dices.

[@tenminutespanish]

@@sandravictoriamaldonadotri707 Muy interesante!

[@Itrio3]

@@tenminutespanish Se equivoca, en absolutamente todo Chile cambiamos la terminación de las palabras. Siempre hay algún disidente como esta mujer, pero a lo mucho puede cambiar la entonación, nada más. La diferencia radica más en las clases sociales que en los lugares.

[@titoluco]

Esto es totalmente falso, yo soy de Antofagasta y en todo Chile se usa el voseo, el tuteo es la norma y lo que nos enseñan en el colegio, pero el voseo ha permanecido. Las generaciones más adultas tienen a estigmatizarlo mucho más que los jóvenes, pero también depende de si se vive en una zona urbana o rural, así como también de la clase social y de los contextos.

[@0r10nes]

"Eri" no es real! lo inventaron los cuicos ( clase alta), en los '90 y lo imitaron los "siuticos" (arribistas) para diferenciarse, pero no es original del dialecto chileno!

[@maxmarquez811]

Te va a dar un infarto cuando sepas, que todas las palabras son inventadas jajaja

[@maxmarquez811]

Te va a dar un infarto cuando sepas, que todas las palabras son inventadas jajaja

[@0r10nes]

@@maxmarquez811 nop...son derivadas, por interpretación erroneas de losnsonidos que representan...el "eri" no es el caso...es invención ARRIBISTA de gente ignorante. Saludos.

[@rexchiliae]

@@0r10nes los cuicos te guste o no son chilenos y también hacen el elngiaje y si salio eso y quedo es una evolución natural del lenguaje

[@diugki]

Soi is even more informal than erí (¿Voh soi weón[idiota] o te hací) [te haces means estás finjiendo/lo finjes] I have personally never heard someone using Vo soi without being angry or making fun of someone. I don't recommend any Spanish student to learn these Chilean voseo forms.

[@tenminutespanish]

Thank you for these insights!

[@miguelQR]

Así hablan los flaites, es decir lingüísticamente hablando tienen más rasgos del español antiguo usando el voseo obvio.

[@rexchiliae]

En verdad la mayoría de chilenos usan el voseo gramatical y el vo a pesar de que se considera vulgar es muy común en los jóvenes de todas las clases sociales

[@joseignacioaguila5474]

Harto ignorante tu comentario bro

[@miguelQR]

@@joseignacioaguila5474 cállate

[@joseignacioaguila5474]

@@miguelQR se nota que te falta mundo, perkin

[@miguelQR]

@@joseignacioaguila5474 el vocabulario tuyo te delata. Adiós