Tennis Levels Explained

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In today's video, I explain all tennis levels from beginner to GOAT.
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[@IntuitiveTennis]

Get the Intuitive Tennis iPhone/iPad App 👉 apple.co/3c5IyJp Get the Intuitive Tennis Android App 👉 bit.ly/3QTK1S7

[@normanashbrooke3345]

Wonderful content, truthful and enlightening. I started playing at the age of 16, I have held national rankings in the Men’s 35’s, 40’s, all the way to the 70’s. The highest level I played at was the competitive level. At the age of 68, I was able to gain a ranking of 172 in the Men’s Open Division in Southern California. I was able to win a few matches against Division 3 players who were high recreational players. Tennis has been a wonderful journey, no one should ever give up the game because of unrealistic goals. The journey is always more rewarding than the destination. Norman Ashbrooke

[@ale03000]

Thanks for encouragement !!

[@bganjavian]

Honest, authentic , genuine , bitter for some truth. High quality content

[@farouqlawal1812]

Indeed!

[@davidw9095]

Great point about players like myself who pick up the game later being mechanical vs kids who learn to play with natural fluidity without mentally trying to apply what they are taught

[@warrenmiller2044]

I learned from this video that patience, time, and experience are the key to climbing up to the top of the bottom half. As a teen feeling like 10 years playing has been forever, it’s nice to know that time will pay off

[@topspin1715]

I record myself as often as possible. People don’t realize I think what you think your mechanics are doing in your head and what actually occurs in reality can vary greatly and for me personally it is a constant battle to fix bad habits especially when hitting under pressure. As someone once said, don’t practice until you can get it right, practice until you can’t get it wrong!!

[@rickthompson9585]

Brilliant, yet simple breakdown of all levels of tennis. Love the numbers you applied - 5,000 At the ATP points level out of 87 million. Boy does that bring it home. Great explanation of how brutally difficult it is to “crossover” the barriers from “recreational” to “competitive” and “competitive” to “elite”.

[@milanvincic9668]

Straight to the point. Awesome job Nick! We should be aware that anything above Advanced Competitive Rec Level is totally impossible for us rec players who picked up the rackets in the late 30s or early 40s. I woud rate myself as an advanced rec player (slightly below Shamir's level though) and that makes me super happy. I enjoy playing tennis and look forward to the new season :)

[@TennisSkunkworks]

I started playing at 30 and I would beat Shamir. He cannot return serve, and his footwork is suspect.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

@@TennisSkunkworks he can't return my serve and he has major foot injury. His return is sound and so is his footwork (when he's healthy) relative to his level.

[@TennisSkunkworks]

@@IntuitiveTennis I hear you Nick - YOUR serve is tremendous; his game looks solid at the 4.5 level. But you CAN indeed start playing after 30 and become a very high rec level player, but you have to have the intensity of an open player, like Nick! If that make sense. Sorry to hear he is injured, hope he is on the mend.

[@orpix34]

What would the advanced recreational level be in NTRP or UTR? I’m guessing 4.0-4.5 NTRP and 5-8 UTR?

[@TennisSkunkworks]

@@orpix34 I think Nick mentioned Shamir is 4.5 when he's healthy, and Alec can get up to 5.0+. In my mind, a 5.0 player can win against all types of lower level players, including pushers and junk ballers. I have seen 4.5 players lose badly to "lower level" pushers because their technique breaks down from unfamiliar pace and spin. I see that as the jump between high level rec and competitive level rec. The 5.0 game is solid tennis under any circumstances including the pressure of a match.

[@richardchen5180]

Excellent video Nick! I started playing tennis two years ago over COVID and now stuck at the intermediate rec level, which I'd say is NTRP 3.5. The main difference I see between 3.5s and 4.0s is 4.0s are a lot more consistent either from not having major technique flaws or playing like a very good pusher.

[@warriorzentennis]

Great assessment Nik. I think a good indication of level advancement is when you start winning all your matches and playing down isn't as much fun. I struggled at 3.5 for a few years before I broke through to 4.0. I am close to 4.5 now which is a huge accomplishment for me. Even USTA 4.5 is a low level in comparison to the pros so I only focus on the challenges that broke me then I came back and conquered the challenge. That's why I love tennis and think it is the best sport in the world.

[@wearetemporary]

I think this description is intuitive and fairly comprehensive. There are a few things that-for time reasons, I assume-you had to glance over, which I think make a huge difference in some of these levels. For example, access to high quality coaching from a young age; competitive club league play in Europe from childhood at all levels; access to different court surfaces from a young age; later on definitely age and injuries; having a coaching and physio team; and a huge one… fitness! At the competitive level so much comes down to living and training like a tennis player all hours of the day. Players in top D1 programs live like full-time athletes… diet, supplements, strength training, cardio, stretching and mobility exercise, sleep routine, access to physical therapy, recovery routines… it’s a huge difference maker.

[@adrianburger1162]

this is an awesome breakdown - I'm a decent but not special player who won a few very small junior titles as a 14-16 y/o; played canadian university tennis (huge difference in level from school to school, from D1 comparable players to club-level guys on a US scale; I was our singles #5); and now, at 26, competing in open tournaments in quebec where I'll win a main draw match now and again but am generally losing badly to D1-type players (last match was 2 and 1 against a D1 senior, 11+ UTR) I'm up to #160 in canadian men's open singles rankings which is just a product of playing (not winning haha) tons of opens, I know I'm not going to come through a qualifying draw, but purely for the life experience I'm entering in a few futures this year, and I think it's really helped to always have realistic expectations point being - I'm having more fun and playing more often than at any point in my life (hockey, not tennis, was my main sport as a junior and student), and even just not getting bageled by these borderline lower-high level players has been a perfect challenge and way to get in the best shape of my life!

[@YuxinMei]

Adrian, just to let you know I'm a rec player from Quebec and your name is already legendary in the local tennis community. I agree with you that the biggest take away from this video is to try to compete at the next level up and set incremental goals and accept loss as part of the process and have a long and healthy life playing a sport you love. Too much challenge can cause burn out and depression, setting healthy goals and working hard to reach those goals and repeat is the formula to success in all aspects of life. Good luck, Adrian, on your futures tournaments, represent Quebec and have fun!

[@Bboykidcombo]

24:58 My game is getting better slowly, but my goal is just to beat all my friends. Thanks 4 the tips 👑 😎 🙏

[@sarkology]

Great vid. I find a huge limiting factor I see in a lot of players (including me) in getting from advanced rec level to competitive rec level is the serve. I feel like there’s such a huge difference in serves between those levels. Big first serves with great technique and consistency and really effective kick serves. I feel like getting all other aspects of play to that level is much more doable than the serve.

[@SharjeeLHussain]

1:45 Difference between Beginner Entry Level AND Advanced Entry Level 2:24 Intermediate REC level 3:10 Advanced REC level 4:30 Adv. Competitive REC level 5:53 Competitive level 7:15 High level and up

[@anluu5713]

i remember suggesting a video like this a while ago. Can’t believe you actually made it coach 😂 thanks so much

[@Didymus1984]

The truth oftentimes hurts, but it also sets you free. As St. Thomas Aquinas said: "The greatest charity one can do to another is to lead him to the truth." Thanks for another good video, Nick. Happy New Year!

[@kurosakishusuke1748]

Your explanation about tennis level beginning from ground up to the top is as exactly as to what I have been looking for.

[@faithingod5533]

I have just had to strip down my technique that was just using a continental grip all the time to eastern backhand and forehand to generate topspin and not just hit flat or sliced returns.. Only 3 months into that process but fully understand the benefits of application of technique.

[@mtsaywhat]

I love your videos. I'm just getting back into tennis as an adult and I used to play hours everyday like a decade ago. Some of my technique and footwork is still in there. My goal now is just getting some good consistency because I feel like that's when matchplay gets more fun.

[@domclarke8182]

As someone who's mainly played in the summer months for 12 ish years, I made 2022 the year to up my game. Last year I learned the grips, worked on my groundrstorkes and serves, then went on to play my first matches in a league. I can see I have further to go as my level isn't super consistent, but it's always fun. Love the videos and good luck worker on the one hander in 2023.

[@geramos109]

You are right. Playing matches unlocked a lot of progress in my tenis. I was focushing a lot technique and then I started playing some casual matches and then I was losing with people that I felt were much worse and stugling a lot with things like the slow rithm of a match compared with ralling and how to chose the hit you want to make and not just hit back. Then this higlighted flaws in my game I could work out or ways how to protect against my flaws in matches. I much better understand now if I lose why it is what I was doing wrong and how to correct it

[@pakchu2]

Great video, Nik. Can you make a video on how to advance from 4.5 to 5.0?

[@petrtamler4484]

Perfectly assessed, thank you

[@davidoldham4568]

It's clear you have put a lot of thought into this, and it shows. Great job, and thanks for your efforts. Certainly, it makes this easier for me in defining the levels of tennis!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thank you very much!

[@y2jandy]

Complete respect for this honest and well thought out content. The best explanation and analysis on tennis levels ive come across

[@IntuitiveTennis]

🙏

[@anthonydabaco8407]

Thanks Nik, excellent summary. To extend this content, would be interesting to see a set b/w students separated by one level. Particularly valuable for the student with aspirations of climbing. Post match would provide the opp to develop a specific plan for both to continue developing.

[@patrikmarflak6559]

This is a really cool idea, especially the advanced rec vs. adv competitive rec vs. competitive level would be really interesting to see.

[@nTo-vlog]

Hi Nick, we are now implementing these tiers structure in our tennis community. Excited to see how it motivates people to level up! Thanks Nick for sharing your idea!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

💯

[@hansolsson3409]

Very interesting topic! I am an intermediate rec player who took up tennis as an adult! Thank you Nick.

[@amandacookworm]

Such a great video! I was wondering about this recently! Thank you!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Glad it was helpful!

[@andrewthetrader8725]

Brilliant breakdown Nick💯

[@K4R3N]

Happy new year coach Nik. Long live the grind.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Happy new year!!

[@sophiak4299]

Thanks for this , very interesting and true! If only I could go back in time and learn tennis as a child ;D . Actually, I think there can be an advantage of learning to play later in life. I started at around age 40 (50 now) from beginner to competitive recreational player, often playing with/against people half my age. Not having had training as a kid can be an advantage. Hear me out: I was able to learn modern tennis techniques (more power and top spin) compared to most of my age group who learned to play in the 80s. For a recreational competitive player, coming to tennis later in life can be a plus. If you have a good coach.

[@AlexanderMayorov]

Thank you Nick for the lacture and interesting survey. Yes, there's a big difference between 100 millions tennis players and 5000 Pros.

[@cassioiks]

Nick always tell us the hard truth about the game in a straightforward way. Thanks Nick. Although I agree with pretty much everything, there's one part I disagree. Yes, younger kids can learn faster and more intuitively, but adults can learn that way as well, and with more purpose. There's just as many adults who can't learn intuitively as there are kids. I'm not saying adults starting from scratch can become HL players, I agree with Nick on that, they will be missing a whole lot of experience only gained in junior years and the older brain might take more time to assimilate and replace habits. But... adults with a life-long history of learning and an open mind, plus brain plasticity, they can learn anything. Scientifically proven. Humans are the most adaptable animal there is.

[@erickodama8137]

Great video. And how would you consider the balance, effort, guidance, financial support, natural talent and genetics?

[@wtr7]

Nik - Thanks!

[@JoeCC0087]

Great video! Sobering and motivating all at once 👍

[@NathanPlaysTennis]

Very interesting. Hopefully one day I can make it to advanced competitive rec level 🤞🏽 Even tho I started late, I really enjoy pushing myself, and seeing how far I can take my game.

[@jasonloeb4269]

Great explanation, My sister who is top 1% of best players in the world is considered lower elite level. As a 5.0, I would classify myself at the competitive level. I was the number 1 singles at Division 3 Springfield college.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Jamie Loeb lower elite by a landslide

[@Rorshacked]

At your best, would you have felt you were lower high level or upper high level? Always crazy to me how high the ceiling is in tennis. Thanks for the vid

[@ale03000]

Thanks for the great tips and insights. Came from many years of badminton & sports 😅 Just started training seriously last year in my 30s, reached intermediate according to my coach after few months of training, & started playing some matches too, mainly singles, sometimes doubles. Not too bad right, but it'll only get harder from here . . . I play mainly for the love of the sport, to improve, workout, social, make new friends, less about the competitiveness part as to lessen the pressure . . Happy Tennis 2023 all !! 😎🎾 Is that a wood racket Nick ? Nice . .

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Happy new year

[@buckyphillips6732]

Tennis is a sport of a lifetime. This video will help keep the interest in a great sport of a lifetime.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

💯💪

[@prabhakarbhat9627]

This is good. Can you also make a video on making a living in tennis, not by playing, but by coaching/selling related products & services?

[@Reakerboy]

Really interesting video, enjoyed watching all of it! Thanks for taking the time and effort to put this together.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@mEstbn]

Thanks coach My goal is to improve my second serve and get more matches experience. With that I think I’ll reach advance rec level

[@bentsoii]

Very thoughtful and insightful content. Thank you

[@patrikmarflak6559]

I am probably stuck somewhere between intermediate and advanced rec level. Learned the basics as 11-12 yo, then played hundreds of hours against the wall for the next few years, then I switched to table tennis and only came back to tennis in my 30’s about 5 years ago. Since then I have had lessons with coach from time to time and play friendly rec matches and amateur league matches at least twice a week. I am now probably the best player I have ever been but the progress is very slow and I always get destroyed by former club players. But it’s super addictive, I love to play tennis and I am sure I will play regularly until my retirement and as long as I can walk and hit the ball. I will be happy if I grow to be consistent enough to beat some younger intermediate/advanced players (maybe my kids, who are just starting) as an old man :) The main goal is to keep playing and enjoying the sport, so respect for this approach, you are a great coach.

[@Shaunsweeney-Kubach71]

This was an excellent video my friend. I never liked the ratings. I have played players that were supposed to be 3.5 players and they were like an 5.0 and they tanked their rating evaluation so they could play players that aren’t as good, just to win tournaments. I also played against people who were high ranking players who were an 4.0 player. I am honest person and when I played in tournaments 25 years ago, I played in the opens, and I loved the different styles of players and meant a lot of nice people. I just started playing again and I have been playing for about month now, and I have gotten better every week, by watching your videos and practicing. I just played a guy tonight that is a solid 4.5 player and because I hit the ball so flat, I held my own and the guy was so nice, and told me I was playing awesome. I told him I watch your videos and have been training and trying to get my strokes and serve back. I have lost 20 pounds in a month and I will get up to speed, and I will be playing in an tournament in December, and I am going to have so much fun, and I will compete at a high level. I appreciate your great videos and I will post my results from the tournament for you to see I am keeping it 100 my friend. Thank you Coach Nick.

[@wb2]

Excellent video. Somewhere between intermediate and advanced rec levels, I’ve spent thirty years perfecting (not correcting) poor technique. Sure wish I’d had some good coaching in the beginning. Despite all, I’m addicted to the game and trying to improve.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Keep going 🙌

[@yakzivz1104]

I will be very happy just to get to the advanced rec level- that is good enough for me.

[@Kenzie_Hill]

Phenomenal explanation! ❤

[@IntuitiveTennis]

🙏

[@aj45045]

I'd say I'm between the intermediate and advanced rec level but my realistic end goal is to someday become an advanced competitive rec level. I've started at age of 10 but playing 2-3 times yearly on average until 32. Last 8 months I've played on average 2-3 hours/week, half of it being matches in a recreational tennis league in Zagreb and half of it training and playing with my brother or friends. It's really hard moving up the pyramid if not playing at least 4-6 hours / week even at this level

[@Lucian86]

Very good.. can't picture that well the difference between advanced rec and advanced competitive rec level but the rest are indeed visible

[@sportscastercanada]

Nick, how do you become an elite level tennis coach? Networking? What’s the highest level player you coached? Is coaching more psychological at the highest levels? Happy New Year🎉

[@alessandroalmeida2102]

Hey, I have 31 years old, I started playing 4 months ago, I play 3 days a week of Tennis class. Do you think I can achieve the "advanced competitive recreational level" or only the "advance rec level" with hard work? You can be honest and generalist. Thanks for the video and the channel, very nice.

[@ER_aka_RAM]

Love this video for the fact of the humbling reality check! Fantastic insight and breakdown of each tier. …and the highlight had to be the ‘play pickleball’ comment 😂

[@jamesbyrd5175]

High school tennis is very casual a lot of the time in the US. There are many people who competed in high school and never made it past the second level in your video.

[@Daniel-dl5go]

Hey NIck! Great video man:) Do you think that a player like Casper Ruud has a chance to become nr 1 one day?

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Sure

[@zokkostenniszone3282]

Nice work Nik. Where would you place yourself ?

[@pencilcheck]

do you think Iori, a japanese tennis player on youtube, is able to get into competitive level? or do you think he is more of a advanced competitive level player??

[@natehanying54]

Should be competitive level. Closest he got was Futures 3rd round qualifying, never in main draw

[@repoman7804]

Regarding the difference between the men's and women's game, could Ema and Maci have been lumped into Shamir's tier, or is he significantly better than they are? Thanks for the interesting video.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

In my opinion they would destroy someone at Shamir’s level possibly beat even the advanced competitive rec level. I will feature matches this year so we can find out…

[@repoman7804]

@@IntuitiveTennis Thanks for the clarification. I was unsure what level you were implying during your comments about Emma. Sounds like you'd place her somewhere between Shamir and Alec, and probably closer to Alec.

[@lucasplds]

For anyone out there that is frustrated that the universe did'nt give you a chance to be a high level player, you should consider that in 2021 the ATP players ranked 300+ made less 60k. Can you imagine being at the top 0,0001% of your profession, and still not make good money?

[@jyrkytv1112]

Thats cool information. If you are in other professions or job which you are in top 0.000001. You'd be making millions.

[@JosephHiggins-q9n]

Hello Coach,Have you ever made a video with regard to the best tie breaker mentality.Thsnks !

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Not yet

[@lukas.540]

It's absolutely criminal that someone top 1000 in the entire world at something like tennis gets paid so little and makes essentially no money. If this was soccer, top 1000 player (roughly) can absolutely earn a living. Tennis is brutal.

[@DanielMorenoTV]

And a very good living let me tell you. Im fron chile and despite our league being terrible, the best players earn around 60 to 70k usd per month

[@pigletbb]

I started playing tennis for ten years.. I’m at intermediate rec level I guess. (Maybe 3.0 or 3.5?) Quite frustrating because of no progression 😩

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Focus on your technique

[@dotdotzoom]

Thank you Nick for this very insightful video as well as all of your videos. What level would you say is needed to make a living being a tennis coach? Ive only played a few years but my aspirations are to be a tennis coach in my 40s for lower levels even. Any advice?

[@IntuitiveTennis]

I think most tennis clubs in the US require teaching pros to be 4.5 and above (I’ve seen many who are lower than that tho) kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2eolmppqbqSrJosi=7kEy8ANhQ_ManVZt

[@dotdotzoom]

@@IntuitiveTennis Thank you for the response Nick. I just finished the video you linked. I will keep that in mind and just continue to make gradual progress!

[@MrMSS22]

Very good and meaningful classification. From my experience, physicality plays a role at any level. At the lower levels, it's primarily cardiovascular fitness, as you get away with worse footwork and thus worse technique. The player, who is able to get the ball in the opponents field more often will win. The higher the level, the more important it is to have good stability, to move well and to be quick. Competition is also hard on the mental side, which you need physical resources for.

[@Alexander-dt2eq]

maybe even more aspect to physicality. when i was 12/13 i got the advice to regularly go the gym., otherwise i would not be able to play competitive tennis.. well almost 30 y later, i think they were right, but i just was not in the mood to do so. You have so many talented recreational players with enormous feel for the ball.. but it takes just lots of physical work to progress.

[@vectorthurm]

I would say that chart could even be more of a parabolic distribution shape as the amount of 4.5 and above level players make up only 5-8% of the tennis playing population (from what I’ve heard). As a kid who loved Tennis & started playing at 8 but never had lessons I’ve come to accept certain limitations and challenges (bad technique muscle memory, etc) but still enjoy it no matter what. It helps to have realistic expectations!

[@Krwler]

This is so sport on. I play at a club where the abilities range from total beginner to low level pro and the difference is immense. Also, tennis is like learning language. When kids learn a language they’re fluent and speak with an accent - it’s a second nature. I’ve noticed something similar with tennis. There’s a smoothness that players have if they’ve trained as kids that players who learnt as adults rarely ever have.

[@reneromandic2785]

Hey Nick, what should you do if you have lower back pain on your kick serve?

[@melfox215]

I totally agree to your pyramid of tennis levels. I consider myself to be somewhere between intermediate rec level and advanced rec level. I'd love to get to the advanced competitive rec level, but age, time and health keep me from improving very fast. Even with playing tennis average 4 times a week in summer and twice a week in winter including playing somewhere 30 competitive matches a year, reaching the advanced rec level is not a given thing. Let alone making the advanced competitive rec level. For my state in Germany, a 40+ guy like myself at 41, would have chances to win state championships +40 at the advanced competitive rec level. The best players all ages are 2 guys that are probably on the competitive level and 1 guy who is currently in the top 1600 ATP. They got coached by the best regional coaches several times a week since a very young age. Most of the other state's best players on the advanced competitive rec level have had the same conditions as they were the state's best junior players. The top 3 guys are in the national rankings at somewhere no 70, 250 and 500. Even the worst of these 3 guys defeats like any other player in the state like 6:1 6:1 on a normal day. So yeah. Making the competitive level is almost impossible. Even making the advanced competitive rec level is very very difficult for most players. Making the advanced rec level can be done with a lot of effort, pain and patience, and, of course, money. So be happy if you have made that level in your life as an ambitious tennis player.

[@Fungahhhh]

Great video as always, Nic, but I don't quite agree with the pyramid, at least if we're discussing people who are playing tennis somewhat regularly. I would say most beginners either advance to intermediate rec players after a few years or stop playing. The int. rec level on the other hand includes maybe 60% of club players (30% being beginners and 10% advanced rec). It's also a very broad category, where a "strong" int. rec. player like maybe Bremen could outclass a "weak" int. rec. player.

[@xg3069]

So interesting and so informative for me when it comes to high level. Do you believe that every high level tennis player is automatically mentally strong? (with room for improvement of course). I see comments from some like “tsitsi has no mental when it comes to tie breaks at deciding set” which comment I find insane considering he is top 5.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Mental strength is a very complex topic

[@xg3069]

@@IntuitiveTennis thank you for your answer. yes that’s why I asked, complicated it is. it’s so incredibly competitive to simply qualify for pro tennis tournaments so I’ve wondered many times if to make it there necessarily means that one is mentally strong. On a different note re those who learnt to play at a younger age (not my case), the only disadvantage they have in my opinion is that most of the time their level of play seems to decrease over time (or at least I consistently hear them complain that they used to be much better). Maybe am wrong but those who learnt tennis at an older age seem to be improving year after year for a longer period.

[@luiscota6262]

I just love the use of a wooden spoon while explaining these levels. There are two well known motivators that people respond to - the carrot and the stick. Some people just prefer the stick! 😂

[@knotwilg3596]

I take advantage of this video to make a prediction for 2023 on who will win a Grand Slam tournament. 1. Djokovic - still the man to beat. He's now as old as Federer was when he made that 2017 comeback but Djokovic looks nothing like it will soon be over, rather at the peak of his abilities. He's still capable of making a clean sweep. I see him win AO IF he is allowed into it, on grit alone. And Wimbledon. 2. Alcaraz - will continue his rise. He can win any tourmament. 3. Nadal - has one more French Open in him but then it will be over. 4. Rune - the real rival for Alcaraz (that Sinner is not going to be). My bet for the US Open. 5. Hurkacz - my dark horse for Wimbledon I don't think Tsitsipas will ever win a slam. Medvedev could do it again if he finds his original love for the game which got destroyed by cruel crowds in Australia and Paris. Thiem seems to be over. Fritz, Rublev, FAA, Ruud ... are second tier and I don't think they can break to that GS winning level.

[@knotwilg3596]

@@GazzaDazzle Someone who's interested in them might react.

[@kikibeldandy]

Agreed.

[@hsy2448]

@@tijgertjekonijnwordopgegeten I think Rune’s mental game could hold him back from winning a slam. Look at RG 2022, he is very good, and can take out anyone, but idk how mentally stable he can stay through 3-4 tough matches in bo5

[@knotwilg3596]

@@sergiosimbula That's a bet I'm willing to take. I love Sinner but he's just too nice for the absolute top.

[@knotwilg3596]

@@sergiosimbula Hehe - I think Rafa is a class act outside court, not so much inside, with all the mannerisms, the extreme grunts and flirting with the time violations. Perhaps not on purpose, still disturbing. Sinner has taught himself to fistpump because his nature is very soft. That's how I look at it. I can be wrong of course. Young Federer was an A**h*** like Rune. Once he managed to control his emotions, he ascended to the top. Djokovic was more playful but sometimes self defeating in his early days. I see similarity with Rune. His desire to win is too much for him to handle sometimes. Once he does, he's in for greatness.

[@ThesGt]

im starting to play tennis just 1month ago, wonder how long it will take me to be able to get to intermediate or advanced rec level :(

[@nguyenngochuy7672]

I started tennis for 1 year and 7 moths and now i am a intermediate player, i played with coach 2 times a week until now, spend a lot of time with wall to improve serve, volley and overhead, I play with doubles group 2 times a week to improve net game, return.I play single with 4.0 friend ( 3 set match ) or working on fitness especially footwork on anther day

[@mikebennett109]

I was waiting for the “…or take up pickleball” line 😂

[@robinperkins7695]

Thanks

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Much appreciated 🙏

[@AlexandreAlapetite]

What are Shamir's and Alec's UTR please? Thanks for the great video!

[@chualinho]

a reminder why "beat the pro" series wouldn't work. although I still think some matches would still be educational for viewers to experience how different is the real tennis level between players. =)

[@dejpsyd0421]

So how does your level chart equate to these levels the club pros give people, i.e., 2.0, 2.5, 3.0 etc.? I can't tell you how many people tell me, "Oh, the pro at my club says I'm a 3.5!" And then i watch them play and they're barely an advanced beginner.

[@tomsd8656]

I watched Richie Reneberg playing against Texas A&M University in a double match. At that time, he was already NCAA champ. The two A&M players were huffing and puffing, looking very stressed and frustrated while Reneberg was only playing about 60% of his ability, talking to his partner and smiling at time as if it were just a friendly match in the park and still won 6-2, 6-2. He turned pro soon after that and then some times later, I was watching him playing Lendl at Wimbledon. He was like a completely different player compared to when he was playing in college.

[@julianpenfold1638]

I would be interested on thoughts as to where the MEP (Most Exhausting Player AKA Ben) as featured on Tennis Troll and Essential Tennis channels would fit in. If Shamir is "Advanced Rec Level" with "sound technique", who would win in a match between them and is MEP's technique "sound"?

[@IntuitiveTennis]

MEP def advanced rec level with unorthodox technique. I do think competitive rec players beat him easily…

[@lachau818]

Lets see a Shamir vs MEP!

[@julianpenfold1638]

@@IntuitiveTennis He took a female D1 recruit to a match tiebreak in 3rd set, made her beat herself in the set he won. But he's probably an outlier.

[@hsy2448]

@@julianpenfold1638 like usta mens are about .5 rating higher than a women in their ratings, so I assume the physicality aspect would make a guy be one tier higher than women at the same skill level (after the beginner stages) the d1 recruit would probably be about 5.0 usta or low competitive female, while mep is high rec advanced level, so it on paper would be very close, which it was.

[@julianpenfold1638]

@@hsy2448 True - though MEP is probably at least twice her age, but again pretty fit for his age so again something of an outlier.

[@hsy2448]

Is college tennis getting stronger? I feel like we have been seeing more college tennis players who are finding some success on the tour, Shelton, Rijitaka, etc. maybe they are in more recent memory due to the US open but I feel like college prospects are having a better chance on tour now than before.

[@LunarEclipsism1]

It's less that "college tennis is getting stronger" and more that some players of a very high level who in the past would have immediately gone pro after juniors are choosing to stay in school longer and compete on *certain* college teams. Some people might see that as a distinction without a difference but I think it's important to point out that if most of college tennis is still the same as it's ever been, but a handful of elite players hang around because they like camradery of a team and think an NCAA trophy on their shelf would be nice, that doesn't mean that colleges, in general, are a more fertile training ground than they used to be. When you look at players on tour who have college experience, it's from a stunningly small number of schools. Less than 1% of college players end up going pro, and if you look at the top 130 ATP players, for instance, 16 of them have college experience, and about 40% of those players went to the same two schools. USC and UCLA. Massive outlier cases like those particular school programs don't reflect the overall state of college play

[@ssenssel]

There are a lot of delusional athletes out there.. the Uncle Ricos "throw a ball over them mountains" type of guy. Martial arts guys are the worst exemple to me. Delusional tennis players are also bad. Somebody once said that of all activities the biggest gap between pros and amateurs are found in chess and tennis. To me because of movement tennis seems even more compartmentalized than chess and Nik's description here is spot on. My 0.02 cents based on my empirical anecdotal experience: The vast majority of amateurs who start playing tennis as adults (20+) after lessons and practice over a couple of years can find themselves, in a best case scenario, at USTA 4.0 level. Some may even reach 4.5 but very rarely somebody become a player 5.0 up. Those are a special breed who developed technique early in their childhood/early teens. There are a lot of us that can maybe even practice at 4.5 but realistically play matches at 4.0. The reason for me why it becomes increasingly harder to develop past 4.0 level is all about footwork and ball recognition, things that are harder to teach compared to ground strokes and serve. The famous frase "do not expect your arms to do what your legs should have done" comes to mind. All tennis channels on YT keep talking about upper body movement since is what people want to see but is just more of the same and at the end of the day "preach to the choir". You can have all the go to terms figured out, things like unit turn, racquet lag, kinetic chain, contact point, follow through, etc.. but without ball recognition and reaction time one becomes a "tennis coroner", you get really good at diagnosing why the shot you just hit failed..

[@yakzivz1104]

I detect no lies here!!!

[@TimTheMusicMan]

I haven’t watch the video in full but I will this evening. The one thing I want to emphasize as a private instructor is I have a rule if a player does not get off the baseline, how to volley a winner, mid court, or at the net, if they don’t know about drop shots, don’t know how to push the opponent out of the court and then rush to the net for a Valley winner if they don’t know how to do any of that and if they stand on the baseline and just trade strokes even if they’re strokes are very very good I do not rate them higher than a 3.5 even if they have a gigantic serve, I would never rate them higher than 3.5 in order to play tennis you have to know the whole game and standing on the baseline is not knowing the game. All 4.0 and higher should know how to do the above. I have watched 5.0, 5.5 never get off the baseline. They are not 5.0’s.

[@hsy2448]

So is there a large utr difference between competitive and advanced competitive red level? Would you take a 10 utr junior like safin who plays weekly tournaments or a utr 10(with accurate rating) adult who plays some matches and only 2-3 tournaments a year? I would call the latter advanced rec whilst safin is considered competitive. Or is competitive level like 10-12.5 utr while the next level is 13-14 utr?

[@tomsd8656]

There's one other thing I would like to add. I had the experience of playing someone who was actually scouted out by USTA. Clearly he was very talented. But he was a bit short ( even shorter than Diego Schwartzman.) He ultimately decided not to pursue a tennis career and became a chiropractor. So even if you have rare talent, you still need a lot more, like physique and huge dedication, to compete at the high level.

[@peterjna12]

I just want to get to the advanced recreational level one day. 3.0 to 4.0!

[@mrcool1st949]

I estimate that I'm like a broken advanced rec player. I recon I would destroy anyone in the intermediate rec level, but someone like Shamir in the advanced rec level can win against me if the match prolongs too much. I also think I would hold my own against someone like Safin, but only for like 20 min or so, then I'll start getting my arse handed to me. To give you an idea of what my tennis looks like, basically my consistency is awful, I have tons of technical problems on my strokes, and only now I'm learning how to do a double forehand and double backhand, yet I am confident enough that no one at the intermediate rec level will stand a chance at winning against me (in fact, I think it'll be cruel for me to go against an intermediate rec level player), but I'm confident enough to go against the advanced competitive rec level and give them a run for their money. I'm going to get coaching to sort out these problems and finally start making some real progress to get to my goal of becoming a lower high level player (which even after this I think will still be possible for me). Given that though, what level would someone like me be?

[@rosbif00]

nice t shirt nick

[@perakojot6524]

There is a guy in an upper echelon of advanced recreational level that would wipe the floor with Shamir for example, and first time you see him play you'd say he's advanced beginner level at best. He is known as MEP on KZbin, search him. In one championship in my club we had a guy that you would think as advanced recreational level. However, he had R2 ranking in Switzerland which is a top 300 player. And bear in mind Switzerland is very competitive in tennis, almost as Germany that is 10 times larger. So essentially his level was upper echelon of competitive level.

[@MochiNPRA]

The tennispointer is a great multi tool, scratch my back, stir my big pot of soup, and helps develop my swing. Doesnt need a string job ever.

[@kingoftennis94]

'And pick up pickleball' 😆 . this man is such a savage. he went a little too hard with the message.

[@MB-le7tw]

fascinating overview - thanks Nik. Tennis needs to completely (IMO) revamp how prize money/TV money etc. is distributed. Think of any other pro sport - football, basketball, hockey, baseball - etc. the top 3-4000 players make a very nice living due to, among other things, strong bargaining power through unions. Tennis? ha, you need to be what - top 100 to make a comfortable living? This is totally unacceptable and needs to change.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

True

[@marcelobrenha]

Nick, you are as awesome coach, I intend to contact you next year to spend some 10 days in florida training hard toghether with a friend. do you think this is possible? i have seen many videos of you coaching Felipe, a brazilian as I am. Would you give me an estimate of the investment it would take to make such an endevour? Like 10 days 3h daily or so

[@MitteNovember]

How does this pyramid translate to NTRP, ITN and the German LK? Thanks