Tennis Ratings Explained - NTRP and UTR

[@EssentialTennis]

Important note: the NTRP and UTR rating comparisons on my chart are VERY rough. Depending on where you live the numbers might match up very differently. One of the countless reasons why tennis ratings are so confusing!

[@DominicThompsonvideos]

Ian, Helpful/accurate chart? Compares UTR, NTRP, junior, college, pros. cdn.myutr.com/public/media/UTR_Player_Range.pdf Some fun comparisons: middle 4.5 men = 7.25 UTR = high sectional girls 14, low sectional girls 18, high sectional boys 14, low/mid national girls 12s, mid/high college women D2.

[@dadsfreetimeclassicgaming1220]

Well done. This is more comprehensive than it looks lol.

[@mjnm6748]

What do call this player? kzbin.info/www/bejne/n5ucZZSkn9SjY7c

[@EP-77o]

@@mjnm6748 a genius

[@aounjafarey1036]

the area definitely matters! I've most played in the NY/NJ area and 4.0 here is closer to 4.5 in the midwest, was in metro detroit for a bit and I bageled a couple of computer ranked 4.0s, I do not expect to be able to do that in the NY area.

[@shimassi9961]

For those that dont know: GOAT is a type of animal, a bit like a sheep

[@Dodge2]

Nice one

[@flieger3296]

here you go for those who need an official definition: a hardy domesticated ruminant animal that has backward curving horns and (in the male) a beard. It is kept for its milk and meat and is noted for its lively and frisky behavior.

[@Richard_on_the_Road]

Well played, would you consider this a "counter-punch"?

[@SJ-di5zu]

Theyre also surprisingly good at tennis

[@alanfrost75]

@@SJ-di5zu Also other sports too!

[@my240sx2]

GOAT: Greatest Of All Trolls

[@jeffvalenzona3811]

hahahahhahahahahahhahah

[@jmn4276]

Greatest of all time For anyone who wants to know the actual meaning

[@icebear326]

@@jmn4276 this is what I came to the comments for lol. I knew what GOAT meant, I just wanted to see if anyone actually did comment what it meant

[@yeetlord7746]

U are a troll

[@bradenchou7338]

GOAT self-referencing troll post!

[@Ziamilis]

Troll: “Ugh, my no look down the line backhand is off today. What an unforced error”

[@Eliath1984]

my 360 no scope tweener still works though

[@ericshine1]

Hahahaha!

[@ericshine1]

@@Eliath1984 Too funny!

[@cancersilver9546]

*finally makes the low percent shot* Troll: COME ONNNNN!!! Me: nice shot. 40-15 , 1st serve

[@raymccrory6493]

As a previously unaware, now self-identified 3.0/3.5 troll, this video was the most useful, the most practical, the best-10-minutes-that-will-help-me-finally-move-up-the-ratings video I could have ever watched. Pure knowledge. I will continue to love that one-out-of-five winners that feel so good-but I am so much more consciously aware now of the need to “work” at improving my consistency (as an active tactic, rather than a hopeful by-product of just “getting better” at my shot making.) In a nutshell, best tennis video EVER produced. Thank you, sincerely.

[@EssentialTennis]

WOW, that's an amazing comment!! So happy to hear this resonated with you, Dr. McCrory. Kudos to you for your self reflection!

[@darrengarside1012]

I completely agree. I return to this video at least once a year and am slowly, slowly moving from Troll to Net Rusher.

[@martyblack9582]

Very good video and quite accurate too! Two years ago I played a doubles match at the USTA Nationals (Senior Men, 9.0 level), and my partner and I, who were both solid 4.5's lost to a team from Nor Cal 6-1, 6-2. It was my worst loss at Nationals in over 20 matches. But afterward, I looked up our opponents on the UTR website and found both had ratings of 9+. So, we really played against two 5.0 sandbaggers! I think UTR will be good for tennis since NTRP ratings can be wildly inaccurate.

[@Naomi-gr7fm]

I think another thing is NTRP seems to vary based on region. I'd assume rankings in the Midwest where tennis is harder year-around would present differently in warmer places like Cali' or Florida. I think UTR is an amazing metric. I'm still new to playing in the system, but I see where it has its advantages.

[@CristianGeorgescu]

Thanks!

[@ChadSkeeters]

I think you could have given a second label for the Troll Zone of Weapon Developer. This would encompass players that are working on winning points by being offensive but are still learning the technique and strategy required to be either an Aggressive Baseliner or a Net Rusher/All Court player. I'm a 4.0 player that has worked through this zone and can beat many players with an All Court approach as a result. I love playing pushers because it tests my offense and tactics.

[@bousemaster3989]

Excellent comments, I am the same and feel that troll zone label is a bit much of misinformation. How can you become aggressive baseliner without trying to do some winning shots.

[@chuckharris4855]

I think it would have been nice if he talked about serves. A big serve alone can really help you win matches. I have known to be a little too inconsistent (rallying) if i don't play all the time but my serve usually helps me be competitive.

[@ST-ek6lf]

Fantastic point. Absolutely right. Below 5.0 level, we must develop weapons by making mistakes and trying . It means you sometimes have to act like trolls. Just because you make bunch of mistakes, it doesn’t necessarily mean you are automatically trolls. The same thing could be said about pushers. Mybe former trolls are working on getting the balls back in. Ideally, you have to be trolls and pushers at the same time in different period of your player’s life. Then eventually you become a 5.0 and above. At 5.0 level, you can act like pushers and trolls at the same time in the same game or even in the same point.

[@stevek1716]

I fit into Ian’s “Troll Zone” area as a high level 4.0 (consistency is what’s preventing me from moving up to 4.5). I refer to folks in this zone as “ball crushers” highlighting the less frequent positives and removing the more frequent negative inconsistencies. I like “weapons developer” because that’s a great description! Sharpening skills (closing volleys, kick serves, poaching, etc) while making a ton of unforced errors to compete at the next level.

[@DJ_Cub]

I’m gonna troll zone you Chad Skeeters. That is the greatest white guy name ever

[@nikol7951]

Thanks Ian, well said, I agree! I'm at the 4.0 level now, and realize I need to develop more of my offense to take it to the next level. Year ago I was too aggressive and not consistent enough, so I really worked on my consistency and made progress. Now I'm working on being more strategically aggressive and offensive, while maintaining my consistency; realizing I will make more mistakes and that's OK if I want to get better.

[@coreyleventhal3694]

GOAT= Greatly Outstanding At Tennis

[@EssentialTennis]

🐐

[@alirezamirhadi8517]

This was so far the BEST tennis video I've seen... Thanks!

[@malatestov]

Great video. An Spanish Pusher here, working my way to the centerline thanks to your videos, among other channels 😉 Great topic. Last week I had a bad experience with a friend of mine, who is in the Troll Zone. I won. He blamed me for loosing, said mean comments about my stile of playing and hurt my feelings. He did not shook hands at the end nor apologized. I won't play with him anymore, unless he changes his attitude. Yesterday I played with other friend, who is way better than me. I stayed more balance between offence and consistency, and although I lost, enjoyed the match much more. Than you for your videos and keep up with this quality content.

[@tonycella1395]

Al primer "amigo" lo mandaba yo a esparragar. Cualquiera que te critique después de perder no tiene la menor noción de lo que es la deportividad. En el tenis y en la vida hay que saber encajar las derrotas. Un saludo

[@malatestov]

@@tonycella1395 Yo no lo hubiera expresado mejor. Tengo la esperanza de que cambie de actitud, pero mientras tanto, que se busque otros contrincantes. Muchas gracias por tu respuesta!

[@tonycella1395]

@@malatestov El curso de singles de Ian me ha ayudado un montón a la hora de establecer patrones de juego efectivos y minimizar los errores. No sé si lo habrás visto, pero te aseguro de que las estrategias que enseña te ayudarían ante cualquier oponente. ¡Mucha suerte, y que sigas disfrutando del tenis!

[@malatestov]

@@tonycella1395 Lo buscaré, seguro que me es útil, muchas gracias!

[@ranjanjha1044]

This is EXCELLENT. I am a new player (started only about 2-3years ago) and I have been encountering all these kind of players in the local circuit….. and I myself have been thinking about my own game and this chart sums it up so perfectly in what I see in others and myself. WELL DONE!!

[@bobschroyer4347]

Nice description of Tennis ratings & playing styles -- Offense vs Consistency. I've seen this over the years of my playing but never thought of this concept. Good job

[@lewisfrancis7203]

GOAT : Greatest Of All Time

[@EssentialTennis]

🔥

[@avolox]

You mean Tom Brady

[@vaughnlee1]

Thanks

[@avolox]

Or...Not Lebron. Sorry my joke selection is just as bad as my shot selection.

[@arandomguy21]

What are y'all talking about. Tha Goat is Bernard Tomic

[@miapapa1955]

I have a better understanding of rating a player or when a player states there rating. Thanks

[@EssentialTennis]

glad to help!

[@DavidTsung]

Another way to describe Troll Zoners is: Terrible tennis partner.

[@info781]

Two Troll Zoners can have fun playing together as long as they have 10-20 balls on the court.

[@MrRockrobstr]

That universe analogy is perfect. Many years ago I played some guys headed for that zone…a couple who went on to play on tour, and it’s like you’re not even on the same court with them.

[@shouryanadda9604]

Best tennis channel on KZbin..... Good luck bro

[@EssentialTennis]

🙏❤

[@davidcobo3260]

I really like the way that you simplify the two aspects of tennis play: consistency and offense. It is not about good or bad. It is about understanding choice. For real growth you need to develop both. Underlying your thesis is non judgement. It is about understanding where one is and how you would assess others.

[@EssentialTennis]

Exactly!! Really well said, David.

[@raymccrory6493]

That’s really a beautiful paraphrasing of the point if the video. Nice job!

[@ConMan]

One question I have is about the comparison of NTRP vs. UTR. I recently found on the USTA website that they have a sort of conversion chart, and it showed that 4.0 Women to be about 4 - 6 on the UTR, and 4.0 Men to be about 6 - 8 on the UTR. I'm a 4.0 guy, so I'm just curious where you got the 4.5 - 6 on UTR. Also, I hear some guys say that 4.0 in some areas are better than 4.0 in other areas, so I'm curious if you have any thoughts on that as well.

[@linguaEpassione]

I'm 2 minutes into the video and I'm already lovin' it! :D I mean, the goat and the galaxy!!! You simply rock... Keep up the great work

[@EssentialTennis]

❤🙏

[@tonylasala]

Great video. After playing for almost 35 years, I’ve finally realized that good form is the key to having a “pusher” mentality AND still hanging with aggressive baseliners. Now, of course, there’s a difference between realizing it and actually making it happen!

[@cinema927]

Fun video. For many of us that are doubles players, there are more classifications. There is a huge difference between those that have multiple types of serves (first and second, power and spin, consistent serving box targets) and can communicate before and during each point so that they run plays, as well as playing out of different formation (I, Australian) and changing tactics mid-match. In CA, where I play, the difference between 6.0 and 7.0 tennis is mostly seen in footwork/court positioning and ability to volley (particularly backhand volleys). 7.5-8.5 doubles sees a massive improvement in serving, court positioning, the return of serve, and communication. A mediocre 7.5 team beats a great 6.0 team 6-0, 6-0.

[@gab_ale]

That galaxy between the 5.0 and the Pros is the most realistic depiction I have seen of that gap.

[@BO_LT_tennis]

More or less it's a very precise description. I am a counter pusher I guess. And I do my own similar tennis channel for dabblers in Russian where I try to describe the same topics, so those who speak Russian can watch it too. Your manner of explaining is perfect. It can't be better! thanx! Keep doing it!

[@citiofbrass]

More vids like this pls. You don't see this anywhere else. This was awesome. Thanks Ian!

[@kevincywu999]

Hi Ian, so glad you did this video. It really reaffirms what I have been telling my daughter and as always it is more pleasant to hear from someone else beside the parents per my daughter point of view. My daughter is playing advance competitive tennis at age 12 and she is getting up to the 4.5 - 5.0 UTR and I consistently tell her she needs to have a balance of offensive and defensive 50/50 if she wants to continue to grow in her development. she is a very consistent player so aka “pusher” and now aka “counter puncher” as her UTR climbs. I inform her she needs to continue to work on her net play and also develop a “consistent” offensive tools which fits her style. Just a shot out to “feel tennis” video series which I love by the way to develop what feels naturally, don’t force it and try to become something you are not.

[@EssentialTennis]

Glad it was helpful, Kevin. Hope she enjoys it as well!

[@andrewlee5853]

If your daughter is 12 with a 4.5 UTR, she must be excellent already!

[@proob8171]

@@andrewlee5853 4.5 utr isn’t that good chief when I was twelve I was 6.2

[@uchihasasuke7436]

@@proob8171 wow you're so amazing!!! can i get your autograph!!??? /s

[@gusthedog]

@@uchihasasuke7436 hahaha

[@michaelboyko5024]

I've watched the video several times so that not to miss any details and in one moment it came to me that this can be converted into a week time on court line, so that's definitely a sound table.

[@lptevadog]

I've always told my players that, "in general" a higher rated player should beat the next lower level 6-1 or 6-2. While USTA keeps a lid on their "special formula" for determining movement after matches are recorded, this "formulae" seems to work when players are wondering why they did or did get moved up or down when the new ratings come out in November. Thanks for your explanation - It made a lot of sense.

[@b.lakeberg7456]

This video was fun. At times, I switched between being a troll (minus making fun of other players playing style) and pusher. It was fun and it made my opponent frustrated. They did not know which player was going to show up. I have abandoned the "chaotic" player type to develop my game more comprehensively. When I am not winning or playing well, I will try to reduce errors and give my "on fire" opponent little to work with to see if they can continue to play at their high level.

[@jeffhermida4788]

thanks for this!! Not many USTA New England tournaments right now but a whole bunch of UTR available. Was racking my brain how UTR is classified. thanks again.

[@EssentialTennis]

Glad to help!

[@Naomi-gr7fm]

I admittedly entered and played a lot of college in the "Troll Zone." 🥴 Super appreciative our coach hammered needing to work on my consistency bc that's what won or lost a lot of matches at that level. Was a FRUSTRATING process, but I love every challenge to improve. Consistency is also heavily predicated on fitness! If you gas out easily after a long rally, impatience is more common. I have always been a sprinter type. Nearly no ball goes unretrieved if I have to make a quick dash. Our coach really improved our team's endurance (crack it up to that military training 🥴) though which definitely helped in the marathon matches I often found myself in. (Ironically enough, I theorized and was diagnosed with exercise induced asthma my senior year of college too so I was fighting two battles. For a long time I thought it was normal)! My serve and BH are my weapons, but weapons don't matter if you can't keep the ball IN so you aren't consistently giving away free points. My close friend and classmate used to FRUSTRATE me to no end as she is a textbook pusher and won a lot of matches at her position with that style of play. Challenge matches against her used to spike my anxiety! My consistency and shot selection developed exponentially in the latter half of my college career and I was able to finally beat her. For me, a lot of it was needing CONTROLLED aggression to set myself up. Eventually, I wasn't getting frustrated and just playing my pusher friend's game letting her wait for my errors. I'm now more apt to playing offensively smart with better margin. The mindset you take to pushers is extremely important in your development. They ARE legitimate players whether you think it's "real tennis" or not. If you are losing to them, give them their respect. They have just as much ability to expose deficiencies in your game irregardless of where their level caps.

[@mikeobiwon]

Another awesome video. I think your "scientific" breakdown is pretty accurate based on my league and tournament experiences. I know I used to be more in the troll zone until realizing that I wasn't winning a lot of matches this way. Keep up the great work and I look forward to seeing your next video!

[@stevenbuxton4459]

Thanks Ian. I know we all remember that awesome blasting forehand we hit in the tiny corner that one time to win a match. But real development does come from missing those shots and finding better results winning the points 2 ft from the alley. Hence... Consistency. Why then do I love to blast the forehand into the tiny corner? 🙂

[@biohacks3156]

Where you nailed it is the mindset aspect. The actual consistency depends on the ball you are getting, a 5.0 "troll" would be able to hit back forever against a 3.0 pusher , and a 5.0 pusher would instinctively fall into the right tactical pattern giving deadly attacks against a 3.0 troll. What differentiates us is what we enjoy in the game : long rallies versus improbable shots. I'd argue that a troll gets more of a kick when he misses frequently, because it raises the subjective value of the few successful shots; conversely a pusher will be disappointed at the accidental winner that deprives him from winning the point with pure grit. May I suggest another dimension of classification : perfect execution versus creativity -- the Djoko v.s Fed axis. Or Borg vs. McEnroe, for my gen ;)

[@michaelboyko5024]

This was the best video lesson of the century! To make such a close look on tennis gameplay theory is really professionally profound and solid! P.S. I'm a troll, definitely... :)

[@jimsichterman4684]

Thanks Ian, UTR is very confusing and can have wild swing from match to match. In one match I moved from 6.33 down to 5.96 even though the UTR chart showed my level for that match at 9.0 which while I would love to play at the level is not accurate. In NTRP I'm a high level 4.0 player.

[@EssentialTennis]

Wow, that's crazy. It's so confusing!

[@YonghyunJohnKim]

My understanding of UTR is that it is not just dependent on the ultimate outcome of the match (win vs loss). Rather, it is more dependent on how competitive the match was, measured by % games won vs % games lost. For example, my rating would not change much if I won 7-6, 7-6 as opposed to winning 6-1, 6-1. Plus, there are other variables that come into play in calculating the rating (how many matches played in the last 12 months, the rating of your opponent, whether it's a full 6-game set vs 4-game set vs pro-set, etc)

[@CodySharp82]

This is fantastic stuff. I've been a 3.5-4.0 Trollish type player (though I'm not one to complain about the other players - I just get angry at myself) but have worked really hard the last 6 months to move towards the center line/more consistency. Also, I find ratings hard due to certain aspects of my game being so much different - my serve is as good as most 5-5.5 guys I see and my forehand is probably a 4.5 or so. My backhand is probably a 2 or 2.5 and my fitness is a 3. Average it all out and I'm a 3.5-4.0 player.

[@EssentialTennis]

Great to hear your thoughts, Cody!

[@dalesalmon1028]

Great video had a conversation with one of my tennis peers tonight! He is defiantly a troll all the way we’re I crossed the line and have gravitated more to the consistency side. I’m now on the threshold of being a 4.5 player and he still stuck at a 3.5 5 years latter. I try to convince him to incorporate some topspin and understand that the three p’s off percentages(balls in play) where the 3.5 hit their provincial wall. Placement( hitting your target areas and playing patterns) 4.0 and last pace 4.5 and above( hitting down the line or deep down the middle. To many players(like him) tackle it with pace first! Even if you meant this to be a big ha ha I hope some my take it constructively if they truly want to be a better player!

[@shootin_quickgg1559]

I I was a college tennis player at I would say a 5.0+ level. I took the aggression/troll tennis style I had and channeled it into a more consistent ball. This brought me over the 4.5+ hump I was stuck at. What this video doesn’t tell you is that going from one level to another is a huge gap. The earlier ratings are easy. Once you reach 6.5 and higher, it becomes incredibly difficult to “level up” your rating. At my peak, I was rated a 9.78 (I really wanted that 10.0 rating 😢) and within a 4 year span I only changed from my starting rating of 8.89. For a 4 year span, I only increased a little under 1 level. The great thing about tennis is that everyone is able to get to the level they desire to be at, just takes a lot of work.

[@juliansanderson839]

One thing I noticed was the closer a player is to the 50/50 line, (at every level) the harder it is for them to improve. I think this is because of two reasons: When you’re a ten on one front and a one in the other, what you need to improve upon is very easy to see. However, the closer you are to the line. The harder it is to see what exactly you need to work upon. If your offensive shots are consistent and your consistent shots are offensive, it can hard to tell which to work on. And when your right on the line, there is a level of indecisiveness. Movement on the graph happens in steps, you go right one, you go up one or vise versea. You can’t work on consistency and offensive at the same time. Improvement when you are close to the line means to to actively choose to perform worse in some capacity.

[@commondirtbagz7130]

I’m not gonna lie, you’re explanation of why pushing isn’t bad really changed my view on tennis as a whole and made me a better player. With that in mind it made this scale make a lot more sense.

[@seanlangille9667]

I had this realization a few years ago (the tradeoffs between offense and consistency, especially at the NTRP 3.5-4.0 level) and noticed how many points/games/sets I was losing due to poor shot selection and over-enjoyment of that temporary rush from hitting a crazy winner. Improving my shot selection (and consequently my consistency) made a huge difference in the total number of matches won - I went from streaky winning and streaky losing to more consistent wins. I'm working to tune my offense more now - I play primarily against NTRP 4.5 guys (UTR 7-9 range) and consistency alone is tough to win points with, unless you have world-class conditioning and speed. Picking those spots to move forward and finish at the net seems absolutely critical, regardless of playstyle, if you want to win at 4.5 league matches/tournaments.

[@Wannabe-Pro]

I once bowled a strike. Dang, I can’t understand why I’ve never bowled a 300. Another great video @ET

[@tmass1]

ok no imagine only going for 1 or 2 pins. that's a pusher

[@johnnybgood1169]

I feel that UTR will ultimately replace NTRP in the US because the algorithm underlying it fully prioritizes match results (wins and losses) as well as the strength of the opposition. NTRP has always put too much emphasis (at least in my experience) on technical ability.

[@laurent9752]

@@MichaelDarlingCo I am confused. NTPR take in account the number of game win ? I thougt that was UTR. I though NTPR use the number of games only to control that you are in the right division.

[@tennisbuddys]

Love this video, thank you! This will be great for my tennis program. Especially teaching the adults as they just start playing leagues but many feel like they are already a 4.5 because they have watched so many youtube videos yet lacking in the very basic techniques, control, consistency to begin with:) These are the players who struggle the most and get stuck and start having less fun. Great content very helpful to explain to students in all categories and age level!

[@dorothieedinger8438]

After playing doubles many years in the USTA, I found that ratings could depend a lot on whoever your partner was -and that could depend on the captain of the team. If one was a high 3.0 and played with a new 2.5 or 3.0 with no wins, that could keep your rating stagnant no matter how well you played. Ironically, the USTA player guidelines puts me at the 3.5 level which I have been at previously. Playing up a level to experience what you may need to improve is not an option as it once was.

[@miguelbarahona6636]

1:40. For those who are searching: GOAT: any of various hollow-horned ruminant mammals (especially of the genus Capra) related to the sheep but of lighter build and with backwardly arching horns, a short tail, and usually straight hair.

[@BlueberrySwede]

Very clever breakdown of tennis levels!

[@WalkerKlondyke]

Can't wait to see your match with Ben/MEP! Looking forward to the insight shared between games.

[@EssentialTennis]

I'm super excited about it as well!

[@thomasmedeiros5722]

In my experience over 40 years of playing and coaching many players reach a plateau or ceiling and never advance. At the lower rating it relatively easier to improve. However many players do not have the drive, interest or time to train and practice. You have to be willing to change your game and improve skills. Many 4.0 players just hit the same mediocre backhand or serve and play the same players year after year. Personally at the 4.5 level I spent two seasons working with a coach on my serve and volley game. The work paid dividends because I developed the skills to play all court offense and defense tennis. I was fortunate to have skilled hitting partners to practice with so the more you hit with these guys the more you improve.

[@rhmerkin]

Instead of Trolls, I've always referred to *those* players as Loose Cannons. Great video, loved the galaxy between 5.0 and GOAT

[@AcingTennis]

I'm a huge fan of the UTR system. Wish it was all we used. The difference in each NTRP category is HUGEEEE. And I like the idea of putting women and men in the same rating system so they can compete against each other. Not to mention the incentive to lose to not go up in rating in NTRP... Each match and each game matters in UTR and changes constantly to keep you accurately rated - love it. Also LOL @ "Goat Zone"

[@rsmith02]

This was great and the conclusion I came to after playing college tennis. I'd never get to the next level (as an attacking/net rushing player) without rebuilding my game around a more consistent core. I started to take pace off and get more selective about my shots and switched to a racquet that would also reward this type of play in the long run. I hope to keep to the middle of the path!

[@littleguylearns816]

As someone who is coming back to tennis I loved this so much!

[@SteveAckley1]

Enjoyed the video. What are your thoughts on UTR “replacing or supplementing” NTPR ratings to help reduce sandbagging and promote level play?

[@kingtrawal]

that's the way it should be

[@2ddw]

I would argue for a couple of changes to the diagram: 1)The vertical line separating the Aggressive Baseliner and the Troll Zone should run vertically down as it does now and then curve and become asymptotic to the upper blue angled line. The argument here is that even at the lower levels I find players trying to hit aggressively from the baseline and at even lower levels it is bonk with aggressive placement 2) Mirror image on the horizontal line separating counter puncher and pusher. I think it is also more realistic if the horizontal and vertical axes are actually a log scale. I observed that with many juniors starting development of their game, they fall into two categories: a) consistent pusher with soft balls b) inconsistent hard hitter. Those who eventually achieve *both* - usually around 15-16 yrs - can then go on to be really good.

[@mikecbrblue]

Great description of the levels.. makes me think about my own game and when i play different styles. Loving your work.

[@warrenfriedl1117]

Can you explain the ratings levels? Not sure what makes a 1.0 or 2.0 or 3.0 what they are rated. Can you walk through the path from starter player through all the levels. Thanks

[@tennisforgood]

Hi Ian. Fun video. I'm a club-champion level player (mid-to-high 4.5) and I have been known to fantasize about a hitting session with the GOAT. I just went out with a fellow teaching pro and we probably hit 100 balls back and forth without an error in an early rally. Solid ball-striking, not pushing. People watching were probably impressed; hell, I was! I totally agree that a galaxy separates me from the 7.0-level players. But what precisely makes them that order of magnitude better? Their foot speed? Their technique? Their weight of shot? All of the above? How much would Federer have to ramp it down to have a friendly knockabout (just rallying) with the likes of me? I want to see past the galaxy beyond watching clips on KZbin.

[@rajjoshi1111]

Nice explanation. I got some understanding about my level after watching this video. I think, all the amateur club level players should watch this video for self assessment and for getting ideas for personal tennis skill development. Great work man !!

[@SquatLife]

Great model. Love the Troll Zone. I wonder if aggressive baseliner would be more in the center around your NTRP 4.5-5.0, kind of like a Venn diagram between counter-puncher and net rusher.

[@dartmouthhoop]

What would you say most differentiates a 3,5, 4.0 and 4.5 most simply? Thanks

[@EssentialTennis]

Look at the chart, Jim! A 4.5 has dramatically more ability to hit offensive shots WITHOUT missing and beating themselves compared to a 3.5 🙂

[@dartmouthhoop]

@@EssentialTennis Oh I know....just not sure it's (not your chart, just in general) really explained that well across the board, across the country... i.e. is a 3.5 in Massachusetts a 3.5 in say Florida etc?

[@dartmouthhoop]

@@bmrrogers Thanks Brandon...that's basically what I was looking for....well put!

[@dartmouthhoop]

@@bmrrogers Yeah, that basically summarizes what I've thought over the years...I've probably been anywhere on the sliding scale of 3.5-4.5 for the last 20-25 years or so depending on how much I've been playing etc. Good serve, a bit of a shaky backhand...pretty consistent if playing well etc, decent court coverage but it's getting tougher at 57 lol

[@peterdrury5627]

Thanks for this--puts the different aspects of our sport in perspective.

[@EssentialTennis]

Our pleasure!

[@stevlehr]

When I regularly played NTRP tournaments, I tried to rate in the warm up the consistency of my opponent, compared to my own consistency. If I believed I was more consistent, I went for that, even if it meant a long match. If he seemed more consistent, I shortened points. I played a 4.0 mixed doubles event with a woman (Hi Cheri!) I had known for a couple years but never played with. Before our first round, she told me she would be the consistent partner who set me up to hit winners. That worked - we won the event in four rounds on a weekend. She had been my team captain a year or so earlier.

[@elcherry]

I think that's a good strategy. Just like in poker - if the table is aggressive, play tight; if the table is tight, play aggressive.

[@MarkSansait]

Is it bad that I'm hovering at the 9UTR and still a 4.5 NTRP? Of course not because USTA is really, really convoluted with their rating system. (UTR isnt perfect, but its much better for gauging singles performance.... doubles is another story.) I am loving Ian calling out the keyboard warriors - gotto get the trolls out of their caves. Love this analysis Ian!

[@tmass1]

I'd rather spend time actually devolving a hard shot than just staying comfortable dinking it in. you can't learn 'fast' by going slow. this is a sport

[@Murmurrr]

Or you know, you could stay between the tram lines

[@ugvlogs.7730]

love your videos I've improved a lot after watching them

[@EssentialTennis]

So happy to hear that!

[@elunsford61]

Great job, Ian! Very well analyzed and common sense approach to your describing the different style of play. Well done, Coach!

[@51ayushugale9f4]

Pl. Can you tell me how to win match when we are lefty.

[@Naomi-gr7fm]

Also, loving the content! 2020 has really been this Channel's year in terms of quality and production. Hope that ankle is recovering well and feeling better, Ian! 🦶

[@gretchenlittle6817]

My only criticism is the title -- I guess I thought you'd explain how ratings work, as in how they're calculated. As far as examining different styles of play, I think you're spot on. I will always be more offensive minded personally, mostly because when I started playing I was overweight and couldn't last in long rallies -- no winner, no point. Strangely enough in my 40s I finally got my weight under control and now use agility to my advantage, but I still do it with an offensive mindset. At the recreational level I think if you want to be a quality "consistency" player you have to work harder on your fitness and conditioning, because without those you're sunk. A really solid ball striker can still win rec level matches, even if they're not as fit.

[@stilllifeproductions5017]

Thanks for this! Notice also, the lack of the technical aspects in the lower level players featured, as well as the little bad habits like not using the non-racket hand in ready position, etc...

[@EssentialTennis]

Glad you enjoyed it, Still Life!

[@codenamegrimlock7510]

superb breakdown, really helped with clissifying where my daughter is, do you hae a PDF of the final diagram? so I can show to my daughter please? thank you, keep up the amazing work

[@philiprobbins6200]

Excellent video. Ian's remarks on the "troll zone" mentality (prevalent among "keyboard warriors") are spot-on. Good players strike the right balance between consistency and offense. Aggressive players don't criticize an opponent's more defensive (consistency-oriented) playing style when they lose; instead, they try to improve their own consistency.

[@markoshun]

One offensive strategy that often gets over-looked in the pusher/counter-puncher category is the strategy of making the other person hit uncomfortable shots by using spins, variety, and placement rather than going for 'winners', like hitting a 1st volley at their feet rather than the back corner.

[@EssentialTennis]

🙏🏽

[@johnnieblackwell]

Just curious as to why you didn't conclude your graphs with the very top numbers (7.0 NTRP/16.5 UTR), for more context. That would have been informative.

[@carseye1219]

Enjoyed this! As someone who also coaches another sport, I was immediately able to place individuals into those categories. Also, as an older dude, I see many more "perfectionists" in kids than I used to. They feel they are judged by every result of every point. My first tennis coach would say things like "that was the right choice of shot but you needed to play it with more margin". Kids don't understand things like that now. They are only interested in "did I win the point?". Hence, more pushers. I am going to try to make them let their "inner troll" out to play more.

[@EssentialTennis]

Love it! Thanks for posting your thoughts, great stuff.

[@redrocklead]

Tennis and golf are not good for perfectionist. I recommend bowling, darts, pool, and horseshoes for those seeking attainable perfection. It might be a coincidence these sports are also ones where alcohol is oft consumed actively by those attaining perfection.

[@carseye1219]

@@redrocklead My post was a little clumsily worded. I should have put it that modern kids are less "process" and more "result" oriented. Things like "don't try to actually learn this material but do this and you'll get a high SAT score".

[@redrocklead]

@@carseye1219 I buy that. I coached lax and when new players were successful I often say how did that feel? I would say try to hit the pass, shot, scoop whatever and get that feeling again rather than breakdown technique good or bad.

[@icebear326]

That's very true. Many kids in 14 and under that are around 10-11 UTR are way more on the consistency side. They have super long rallies of simply slicing a bunch of high percentage shots so that they don't lose the point. This will go on for a really long time until someone finally ends up giving the point up, somehow missing, or finding a way to get to the net very safely to put it away

[@ChrisO-ig9br]

I am hosting a member ratings day at my tennis club. Any suggestions what format would be best?

[@ghjkffaqt5561]

Question like you said about the consistency and power and stay on those railroad lines, what would be the strom area leval

[@tensaijuusan4653]

This video was very interesting and also entertaining - good job Ian. What you have to say about the "trolls" is so true. I am a 65 year old left handed "pusher" with counter punch abilities and nothing pleases me more when a tennis "troll" with faster and more powerful shots than me eventually gets annoyed and frustrated when he or she loses and then makes some absurd accusation. Hahaha.

[@sunshine1days342]

I would also add footwork onto it. I think speed and agility are important too. I liked this.

[@Tennisbull-match-statistics]

I wonder if fast guys tend to be pushers?

[@sunshine1days342]

@@Tennisbull-match-statistics I don't know...some? I know I counter punch, but my feet are slow! Yikes!

[@D_LEGEND]

I like the video, and I especially like that the GOAT was left there for Djokovic as he is the one of the Big 3 that really is right on that line :D

[@avinashdalal716]

Great video. I’ve been looking for this type of breakdown. Many thanks! It would be interesting to breakdown the features of consistency and of offense. Then for each feature, how a tennis player can inspect their game to quantify their performance in that feature. Ultimately this would give the rating. If there is enough data of players then the tram lines can be formed! Just sayin...

[@albertleines1149]

I was at the troll zone for 2 years. I use to hit super hard and not improve. Now I'm pusher and net rusher. I'm learning more about it rather than just playing.

[@larrymorritt]

Loved this! Great work!

[@user-vk9uu1rz1k]

I really love this video. Finally got a bit of an explanation.

[@Dom-yv4nq]

In short, I'd urge persons to not "self-evaluate" but rather have themselves assessed by someone knowledgeable in the game, preferably at your club or place of play. I say at your club because as Ian accurately states, ratings shift from place to place. At one club I was a 4.5, at another I was assessed as a 5.0. I didn't think either assessment of me was wrong either. The 4.5 club had some really strong players.

[@katmacrone]

Any chance we could get a video of what is typical of a 3.0 3.5 4.0 etc?With no USTA play due to covid trying to self rank is difficult.

[@barryjohnson1330]

Ian and all, so what's your take on UTR? I play at a club regularly and play USTA leagues. Just started back a few years ago a 55, with COVID and rate freeze still a 3.0 but play 3.5 as well. Working on getting my 30 year old game dusted off, and trying to get back into shape. Really enjoy the game, competing, comradry, and would like to get to 4.0 level as a goal. UTR seems great for tracking rating more accurately, but sounds like a collection of short matches. Probably great if your looking for college play or trying to pursue pro career, but not seeing a real benefit for a club player? Missing anything?

[@Duguro]

Thank you for this, I enjoy the rating breakdown and differences between aggression and consistency. Is there a similar breakdown for doubles. You'll have more variables with having partner matchups and playstyles but there are often differences in opinion on more ideal team lineups. Two aggressive players vs two consistent or one aggression and one consistent. The doubles game has changes so much and going between one up and one back vs both up keeps changing. I'd love more videos on doubles tactics and strategy in the mix. Thank you for what you do, all the best.

[@pyro3452]

How do I test where I am at on the graph?

[@FootFaultTennis]

Just to be clear, 'super scientific' 😂. Definately used to be in the troll zone, now i would say i'm an aggressive baseliner, i guess a mid 2000's Federer type, able to be defensive, and able to come to the net, but prefer the aggression from the baseline.

[@EssentialTennis]

Good for you, Foot Fault! Way to work on your attitude and outlook on the game.

[@FootFaultTennis]

@@EssentialTennis Thanks, i've certainly changed from a 'hit a winner or UE' to a 'set the point up and wait for the opportunity' type of player. Completely changing my technqiue on forehand and serve to help with the consistency also.

[@SomeoneYouKnow2671]

I think I fall into the same category, altough my net game still needs some improvement

[@FootFaultTennis]

@@SomeoneYouKnow2671 I'm quite lucky, I have quite a big serve compared to my height, so i often don't need to do too much work when at the net.

[@gtelephone]

Awesome video. But how to go from a "consistent" player to more of an "aggressive" player? And few channels mention how to move and where to stand in doubles...

[@michaelramey7267]

If someone's speed was limited by age/health/injury would it be more beneficial to lean towards offense (not necessarily charging the net type of O) or consistency (~keep pace slower to not give opponent your ball speed to work with)?

[@adamae.7246]

I think you have to develop both but, especially on a match situation, you will focus more on offence to end the point quickly. Althought it can depend of what type of player you are playing against and your own remaining possibilities due to injury, for example. So, you have to adapt your strategy every time and for each player you are facing.

[@MarcoSolidx]

Great video, One suggestion tough; I know NTRP ranks based on your wins and vary depending where you play; but you could do a video showing a example of a regular 3.0; 3,5; 4... what set of skills one generally have. Also I got a question, if a player moved to USA and never have played a usta/ntrp match and want to play a amateur tournament, how’s gonna be his rating to have even matches?

[@EssentialTennis]

Great suggestions, Brandon!

[@1Arano]

Great video Ian. -- IMO the best way to maintain this "balance" is by taking as many private lessons as you can afford with a competent coach who can gradually bring you up and work in the proper technique for you to develop consistency and offense as you move up and get better.

[@EssentialTennis]

In person coaching can definitely be super helpful!

[@1Arano]

@@EssentialTennis of course combined with binge-watching your videos and maybe purchasing one of the great courses ET offers! ;)

[@robertocfaguiar]

Very clear explanation men.

[@grucacious]

Love the analysis! I definitely feel like I used to be more of a pusher, but I'm working on my offensive side. Hoping to film myself for the first time tomorrow in a friendly game, so not much looking forward to watching that back!

[@EssentialTennis]

YES! Good for you, Neil! You're going to learn so much about yourself.