Terraforming Mars: Ares Expedition Review - It's Time To Skip Past Mars

[@tberceau70]

Yea my first play of this was with 4 players, and it took slightly over an hour. I like it a lot. As someone who always thought about getting TM, but passed due to the length and ugly components. This looks nicer plays faster, and is honestly a lot of fun. Not every game needs a lot of interaction.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I'm shocked it only took you just over an hour with 4 - that must have been some speedy turns. And no, not every game needs the interaction but this game is typically 90 min with 4 and this game doesn't warrant 90 minutes when my personal turn takes 5 seconds.

[@magnusjakobsson7424]

I liked this solo. Also played with 3p but I'm with you that 2p might be best, depends on the group perhaps.

[@DumahAtreides]

I'm happy with the length of Terraforming Mars (original) - especially at 2 or 3 players and find the tableau is so satisfying to build out in that game. Ares though...100% agree it doesn't offer real value for a still fairly lengthy game. It's random luck deck scrolling. Race for the Galaxy hits the right note for it's style and you might as well just call it the best TM light game.

[@renatechandler9375]

I can't comment on the player count because I've bought it for pure solo playing. But that is great. Played it for the first time yesterday. Lost twice , but will try to save Mars for future mankind next time.

[@MisterAbysmul]

Ares Expedition totally replaced TM and San Juan for us. Ares is a 10 for us. I'm still keeping RFTG and expansions, just can't cull it.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

A 10? Wow! :-)

[@bennyvde9282]

Your „anger“ is sooo entertaining and informative aswell 😃😂👍🏼

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Ha ha I'm glad it covers both!

[@TSwizle95]

Wouldn’t adding played decrease the play time because the temp, oxygen and water tiles are being move or flipped more often?

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Extra people thinking of what to do and doing multiple phases each round doesn't balance that out.

[@bigaleka92]

Hi Luke. I always love watching your reviews, no holes barred opinions. I often agree with you too. This time however I’m struggling. I get the luck element of drawing cards, but this is the same as the main game, in fact you can draw more cards in this game. I like the more streamlined approach. This game is a 9/10 for me, loving the sound of the future expansions too.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Thanks for sharing! Glad it's a keeper for you!

[@shannimarmen8201]

Need to have setup time plus time per player on boxes now.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I agree! And more accurate times for player counts.

[@TheRatedOniChannel]

One thing that I found so incredibly fun about this game is that it makes you think about what others will do, with the mechanic similar to Race for the Galaxy, so it was pretty fun, it wasn't long, considering my group and I have played the OG Terraforming and can go through our turns quickly. Also, I love the new artwork on the cards, the original looks like they took stock photos from the internet at random and just paste them, now these ones do have consistency in artwork style.

[@Therisktaker3]

Sorry that you didn’t like the game, but like you said there are plenty of other games out there. I have both Tm and ares and I like them both. I play 2 player and can get both completed in under an hour so time is not an issue. In ares I find that the ocean tile section of the board is redundant because there is no area control so it could just be a random stack of tiles you collect. I also wish that the scoring board and tracking oxygen snd heat was better. The cube didn’t quite match up on the spot almost like the cube was too big or the board was too small. I have RFTG, Roll for the Galaxy, frontiers, and jump drive and I like race the least, but I still really enjoy it, but that game I can complete 2 player in less than 20 minutes. So ares is like a long race with other objectives or a slightly shorter Tm with no area control and phase selection. Thanks again for the review always good to hear of other perspectives.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Great to hear and read! Thanks!

[@evanhaut]

I agree completely!

[@jessicaw462]

It's a shame you didn't like this one more! I find Terraforming Mars OK but I like Ares Expedition a lot. I have only ever played it at 2 so maybe that's why, the player count scaling doesn't bother me because sadly I more or less only play any game at 2 (I don't have a game group 😢). The improved art and components are a real plus, it's a lot of fun and a lot quicker than Terraforming Mars which even at 2 players can drag. Thanks for the review!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I wanted to like it more, as I like the premise of TM, but not the execution. If you play it at two you are getting the best experience I think.

[@scilla359]

I liked TM but not enough to keep for solo (mostly). I was intrigued by this because I love card combo play and Space and I’ve never really played Race For the Galaxy. I am now conflicted after watching your review 🤔 This was on my “if I see it for cheap enough, pick it up”.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

It isn't cheap unless you buy the one with poor components!

[@davidjackson9426]

Thanks for the review. Regrettably I don’t think this is going to be for me. All I kept thinking was I would prefer to play Race for the Galaxy. Not played the original Terraforming Mars (mainly down to the components - publishers release your games with decent components; if you can’t put the love into what you are producing why should I want to play your game) and not sure I will play this one. I had a feeling the solo mode would be a luckfest after watching a couple of plays. Saying all that am bound to end up playing this one day and will probably love it 😂

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I doubt this would replace RftG for many!

[@CarlosRodriguez-ez3ls]

Thanks Luke! I'll stick with TM+Prelude.

[@brotherhorus4316]

Nice review, mirrors my opinion of the parent game👍😂

[@mikolajwitkowski8093]

So it's a good 2 players game, since it is the only player count that exists in real life, that's pretty good.

[@RaduStanculescu]

I like New Frontiers (RaceFTG moved back toward Puerto Rico) more than either Race FTG or Ares. Still feel like even that one is best with 2 because it's more interesting when each player has two spots in the round order track. And if I want TMars with 3-4 players I still love the original much more than Ares.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Never got into the Race series really. San Juan was my replacement for Puerto Rico.

[@RaduStanculescu]

@@TheBrokenMeeple I really love San Juan, but the displayed development tiles in New Frontiers make it more strategic and more interesting to me.

[@Platonick66]

In my group with Prelude we play TFM in around an hour, sometimes under. Ares actually takes longer.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

An hour? How many players? I'd have to see footage for that one 😅

[@Platonick66]

@@TheBrokenMeeple 4 of us who know the game well and one who likes to terraform quickly - they also end incredibly close

[@wiirown_gerrard]

Totally agree with you on both TMars and Ares. I hate the artwork on TMars. It just looks like made with MS Powerpoint.

[@nickhilbert750]

do you sit and watch each players turns?, i happens al at the same time most of the time, cant see how you get over 1 1/2 hrs even 4 handed

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Teach, 4 people thinking and talking. Are you playing in speed mode with no discussion?

[@nickhilbert750]

@@TheBrokenMeeple I wouldnt include teaching, as people learn at different rates, so any game can take way over time teaching, no 1 1/2 is max for 4 handed with discussion, but not explaining every thing as everyone watches, Usually goes something like Im play this for 10 minus 2 and that gives me this, yeah im playing this same cost but i get an ocean etc I need animals, but i dont have the temp atm, ill play this instead, etc. I think like me, and my kids, you allready know what your next turn or two looks like, so you can rattle them off, Im lucky i dont play with people who look at the cards when its their turn and then explain them all, Perhaps your getting alot of AP from others with this which i can see happening

[@wishmeheaven]

Thank you for your inputs. You treated them and throw them as if they not but the phase tiles are quite useful. Their position on the table should be approachable for all player obviously. Why they important? It happened a lot (3P game) that I forgot what phases have been chosen by the players, and that my activity in a particular early phase is determined by the next ones to follow. I really disagree with the way that you represent that issue, and the disrespect that you treated those components (after they being really helpful for me during my game) was only made me think: "OK, he clearly missed the point". The purpose of the phase tile is that in any time during the current phase, you will be able to calculate your moves (if needed) towards the next one.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Everyone plays a card for what phase they want in the round. You can see those cards. So why have the tiles which simply copy what the cards are already doing? :P

[@wishmeheaven]

@@TheBrokenMeeple open your eyes/mind, and only then - read my words. If you still disagree, so be it. We will agree to disagree: I looked which tiles have been flipped and if they were relevant for the current round several times during the game.. That happened mostly to see WHAT PHASES OTHER PLAYERS HAVE CHOSEN, and - as a result - to know what they WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CHOOSE NEXT ROUND. That knowing, helped me picking which cards should I use on this phase and/or round and which might be use in a better opportunity (such as the next phase that I will choose, or the one that the other player won't). All those decisions were possible thanks to those phase tiles which were approachable on the table all along, in a range of sight, as an another tactical tool.. I suggest that you will reconsider their influence and assistance on your tactics, Or at lease, reconsider the fact that their presence has much more depth than an aesthetic annoying insignificant reminder to represent the chosen phases..

[@radioactiveali4619]

Weird. Lots of people are saying this is actually longer at lower player counts as there is less people doing the actual terraforming.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

But two people can do turns quicker than 4. People seem to think that everyone churns out decisions like a super computer. In reality, people freeze up, they talk to each other, they think about their turns, they have multiple actions to resolve.

[@kevindelord]

Thanks Luke, great video! I loved your honesty hahaha

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

That's how I roll! :P

[@maomao180]

Glad to see someone else feeling like Terraforming Mars is overrated.

[@clvrswine]

It's a bore.

[@Duxa_]

I think you are playing Race for the Galaxy wrong at 2. You are supposed to change the phase rules when playing with less than 3.

[@boardgametrucker9376]

Great review

[@unraveledgamethoughts3841]

I haven't felt the need to explore this game due to having TM and liking it fairly well. While I think this would be enjoyable I just don't really want a game that's so similar in theme to a game I already have.

[@paulhamrick3943]

Wow I can't believe how much you hate terraforming mars. I agree it's too long but.... I don't know i've had some epic games that were nail biting and felt like a grand strategical experience. With that said, the last two times I've been offered to play a game I've skipped because of the length (I ended up playing 7 Wonders, Carcassonne, and Patchwork in the time it took them to play TM).

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

It's got its fans for definite which is cool!

[@jennyschroeder1717]

Is the original game worth it for solo player?

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Honestly I'd rather play ark Nova. TFM wasn't great in solo for me as it has the same card issue.

[@jennyschroeder1717]

@@TheBrokenMeeple thanks!

[@koffiegast]

I play TFM all the time, we finish 1-to-2h with 4p. We play with prelude, promos, selfmade rebalanced milestones/awards and modular board for variation. Anyone playing 3h over is either totally new to tfm, everyone is delaying terraforming or just AP. My first game of TM Ares took 3+hrs with 4p. Im not kidding. One person is slow and everything becomes slow, every single action. The board with oceans didnt make any sense to me, and the cards that are retroactively bumping production just became slower in the end. I was surprised, but this aint it for me. TFM Light will be the dice version I think

[@ianevans6909]

Love the channel, love your energy and enthusiasm - but you are soooo wrong about this game, which is an excellent tableau builder with a pretty strong and interesting theme and in which the play goes by pretty swiftly at 2,3 or even 4. Maybe you need a different gaming group if their AP is that bad? Anyway, enjoyed the review as always, even if I disagreed!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Different groups, different folks, the game never goes as fast as the box claims. 2 players it can go a bit more nippy but whoever plays at 2 :P

[@nebwatts3425]

you also don't draft in race for the galaxy! :) random draws determine the winner

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Agreed really, I don't play that game.

[@GaryLutchansky]

When you stated, "Why it seems to take everyone else about 100 years to do their turn is beyond me", I laughed. Rather than a criticism of the game, you seemed to be critiquing your gaming partners. Suggestion: Don't let them watch this video and consider different gaming partners. My experience with TM Ares Expedition is different than yours. Only solo so far. Won 4 of 8 games with the most recent loss a learning experience on what to do differently next time. Playing solo with a limitation of 25 rounds vs. 2+ player goal of the most VP should lead to different playing styles to win. I'm finding the game interesting to the point of entertaining, though I do recognize your frustration with respect to the cards ... cards that combo are often far apart or unreachable in the deck. In my victories, I find the engine building kicking in near the very end and, at that time, choices I make a critical for success. I like that. Now I'm curious about your channel. I'm curious about the games you really like because I bet they're really good. Thanks for the video.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Welcome aboard, thanks for sharing!

[@HieronymusLudo]

Must be the game group, I played 4 player in under an hour and a half. Yes it is multiplayer solitaire, the other players wouldn't play it again and much prefer TM. I like it a lot for the solo mode, and it is far less random than implied.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

90min with the rinse repeat game play and random card draws is pretty long for what this game is. It's really just for solo but then it's even more about what cards you draw as many of them are dead draws for the solo "race to the finish" style of play.

[@artemlarionov7084]

Every game can be very slow with slow players. Can't understand your critique, because you literally show that it can be played fast by your example. And why you haters of TM always always forget that TM is not only card game but also tile placement game with great interaction in this component? TM has a good amount of interaction. And the last one. Are you really played TM:AE with 3 or 4 players because there are a lot of people on BGG say that 2p game is slow because there is not enough actions (phases) on every round? It seems like in parent game where player count doesn't really extend game length (of course if you have not seriously AP players).

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Player count drastically affects game length on the parent game! Like crazy. I can play this fast, but then half of that is from being bored at the rinse repeat nature of the game. Also the "interaction" in TM is not significant enough to justify drafting for three hours. I build a tree, you build a city next door. You stole my objective, done and dusted. The negative effects from cards are also unwarranted in such a long game. For most part I'm just playing my own game of juggling microbe cubes.

[@artemlarionov7084]

@@TheBrokenMeeple Almost all games except dudes on map have even less ""interaction" with such attitude. Yeah, and skilled players will win every time if you think that those interactions on map are insignificant. And by the way, drafting is ALSO very good interaction of players. So, yeah, there is a lot of interactions if you count all possibilities, and I'm not even talking about game tempo adjustments that players can consciously do in high player count games. Also about game length. Sessions in my game group tend to end in 2 hours top, and have no significant difference of players count (3 or 4) because game with 4 players cuts long 10+ generations, of course if people are know what they're doing. And by the way we have one tend-to-AP player. But it's a slightly off-topic, let's return to TM:AE. Are you really have played this game with 3 or 4 players (or other way round with 2 players)? We have simultaneous planning step, that lasts as long as only slowest player thinks. Then we have simultaneous resolve step, that lasts as long as only slowest player thinks. To end this game you need to make let's say hypothetically atleast 30 actions. In 2p games you can make 2 actions maximum in round, but in 3p you can make 3 actions. Also, now we have 3 players who simultaniously working for the end, and now there is no need even in 30 actions but only in 25 (hypothetically, I can't tell exact numbers). There is no way that 3p game of TM:AE will last longer than 2p with normal players. It should be even shorter as many people on BGG point out.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

More people having to take turns = more time. You may need more rounds in 2P, but 2 players don't take as long to process actions and think about their turns as 4P do. And 3-4 actions a round doesn't mean you've achieving something in all 3-4 actions. You only have so many cards and so much cash to play cards with. If you don't have any cards with actions on them, that phase achieves nothing for you without a ton of spare cash. Production + Research are the only ones you're guaranteed something. Also if the phases duplicate which in a 3-4 player game happens in 95% of rounds, you're not doing the full amount of actions in a round.

[@draganvelickovic8830]

Thanks for the review and for saving me bothering with this one as it sounds like a bit of a luck fest. If I wan't to play a card game like this then I much rather play San Juan and if I want to have a Mars theme in my game then I much rather play On Mars. It seems to have inherited a lot of the issues of Terraforming Mars without making enough improvements.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Yes San Juan is easier and quicker.

[@deepdivemusicreactions]

🤔 I could say a few things about TM but being too long is not one of them. You probably didn't play with people who can play it in Dominion speed.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Those people are few and far between. And it only takes one to slow things down. Even at a decent speed, the tracks don't ramp up fast enough, you have to play with Prelude or use the the starting resource variant to shave off a few rounds.

[@Stolovky]

But then again, TM original is not a bad game so I still gotta take you with a grain of salt :D :D

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Saw 5 others play today, 3-4 hours and that was using Prelude as well. . . . just too long.

[@nickhilbert750]

also this game isn't hard at all, i have only ever lost 1 game, I just think you are to impatient for tableau building,

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

As in the entire genre of games which covers thousands of games including one of my favourites, Empires of the North? This game is too swingy with the cards. A bunch of them suck in solo mode because they are only half decent in multiplayer. So you are actively relying on draw luck to get a good engine going.

[@nickhilbert750]

@@TheBrokenMeeple The cards are still worth 3MC, there less than 15 cards that are just VP based, I'd say the biggest negative to this game is that it is too easy to win, by the final turns you end up running a great heat/plant engine, or an MC engine to buy the o2 and Temp., I think where people fall down is that they dont play to their initial corps ability, and teir eary card draws, If you try to build an engine you want, rather than the one given at the start then you struggle, I think thats the puzzle here

[@andrethannhauser6302]

TFM solo is great when you play with the drafting version. It take about 80-90 min. Yes, TFM takes 3hrs in a four player game...BUT everytime it's epic and fully worth the time. Most epic Euros take that long. I dont need to play Ares Expedition. I have enough only card games and TFM is much more than that because a lot of interaction and VPs come from the tile placement....while the different boards (with Hellas & Elysium) offer variety. The drafting is so great and neccessary in TFM so I dont get the change in Ares Expedition not having it.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

TFM doesn't feel epic to me though. Its a drafting game with a board element (which is mainly a glorified timer track) for 3 hours. It becomes rinse repeat too soon with a lot of downtime. I love drafting but I wouldn't play 7 Wonders for example for 3 hours.

[@andrethannhauser6302]

@@TheBrokenMeeple TFM at least is an engine builder in which you can actually use your engine and where it doenst end when you normally would think your engine has just been built. ;-) And IF you play every game the game you show it in this video I would doubt I would ever like to play with you. ;-) The sense of mid to heavy strategy games partly IS to have and take some time to think about your options. A lot of game designers keep stating that the formula to a good game is to create interesting options. And when you just use your gut feeling to take quick decisions you definetely do NOT honour the work that designers put into good games. All reviewers who keep whining about AP in any game might just play the wrong games. So playing a heavy euro game which takes about 3 hrs with 4 players to me is the normality....else I can play a family game or a filler.

[@TheLuminousCleric]

Thanks for this review. I am going to skip it. Retail is lacking, and I already enjoy the OG Terraforming Mars.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Understandable!

[@Stolovky]

Gotta agree with you dude - it was one of my most anticipated games of 2021 and it turned into the biggest flop. I felt very very lonely in a 3p game, nobody cared what anyone else is doing.....no awards, titles, ground game on the map.....hard pass and happy in hindsight I did not back....

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Well a couple of award tiles and the odd tree next to a city doesn't exactly make me feel like I'm in a crowd in TM either.

[@Stolovky]

@@TheBrokenMeeple sure but it was something. But in Ares, they just gave up on completely

[@Vadimaster]

Yeah, too long and if you are unlucky with the draw, an opponent can take a big lead over you. This went out of the door in a hurry. Not up to my expectations…

[@IDM29]

Too Long, Better to play gloomhaven the shorter masterpiece in which you pass an hour only to prepare a skirmish scenary.

[@thomasgraham5281]

Dude, Terraforming Mars is a two and half hour game, it is not a six hour slog.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Usually 3 hour slog but for a drafting game with card drawing luck involved that's insane.

[@Ronindennis]

@@TheBrokenMeeple Yeah man, ANY game that is two and a half hours long has to justify its presence. The only game I tolerate is Anachrony, and only because it refreshes the game halfway through.

[@paulhamrick3943]

One thing to note: Race for the Galaxy is one of the most hideous games ever made.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Agreed, the artwork is very dated!