EVIL LACKEYS - Terrible Writing Advice

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

Henchman: "Hey, I noticed something. The heroes usually win because of the Power of Friendship. So I was thinking, we have a bunch of us, right? Doesn't that mean we have more Power of Friendship?" Other Henchman: "We're not friends." Henchman: "...Oh..."

[@sempersolus5511]

Other Henchman: "There _is_ a Power of Mild Workplace Cameraderie Forged Through the Adversity of Drudgery, but that's not even strong enough for me to remember your name."

[@Eric6761]

@@sempersolus5511 Henchmen: Actually we hate you, you slaughtered my friends and family and forced the survivors of my village/city/planet/whatever the setting is to work under you, hell i gonna be honest, we are losing on purpose! How do you think the heroes got the artifact that easy? Or basicaly unlock New powers? Hell we are the ones supluying them! We just pretend being incompetent around you, We could easily kill The MC like really easy from chapter 1 through 10 but we lost on fucking purpose

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

*Henchman:* "Oh Power of Friendship! Since we are a bunch of us, that does mean we can have you?" *Power of Friendship:* _"I missed the part where that's my problem."_

[@iwannareadforever8185]

@@Eric6761 I want that to actually be in a story now

[@Eric6761]

@@iwannareadforever8185 never thougth on that

[@PossumReviews]

I think the real reason minions in movies often wear face-concealing masks and helmets is so they can use the same extras and stunt men over and over without the audience knowing.

[@chee.rah.monurB]

Not to mention how that sort of equippment is standard issue in everything from sports to S&R missions (can you recognise a rugby player or army pilot without the convenient name & number on their clothes?). Also hello there,I love your videos,nice seein you here.

[@generic840]

Also it helps dehumanize them and show them more as pawns than actual people

[@DanielCastillo-go9gv]

@@generic840 It also helps the hero to disguise himself and go unnoticed.

[@TomasioTV]

Oy gevald it's the Possum! Great fan.

[@annasolovyeva1013]

I recently saw a movie about a conflict, where the "good" and the "bad" sides had nearly identical gear. So what they did - they gave the enemy side balaclavas.

[@kaisermaximal8123]

Fun fact: The Nazis had an interrogator who's main tactic was being nice. He would take POWs on walks and give them good food and friendly conversation. He would then extract info when the prisoner leasts expects it and they would let something slip. He was known as one of the best interrogators in Germany

[@nobledamask]

There are few things scarier than a Nazi that understands how to weaponize the Power of Friendship.

[@mariustan9275]

Oh yeah! His name is Hanns Scharff. I really liked this guy because unlike other interrogators who use torture/force which can be withstood with enough will, this guy utilised the power of friendship. One of his tactics was basically saying: "Hey man, I wanna work with you, but if you don't give me more information than your name, rank and serial number, I have to send you to the gestapo." Naturally the gestapo was considered far more dangerous and would usually gain basic information. Plus he would treat captives like friends, sharing jokes, food and even alcoholic beverages. If I wanna make a sympathetic evil minion, I'd make one based on this guy.

[@supremecaffeine2633]

​@Marius Tan I'm surprised at how little simple alcohol is used to extract information. It literly reduces a person's inhibition.

[@minnion2871]

@@mariustan9275 So basically classic Good cop Bad cop, where this guy was the good Cop to the army of Bad Cops the Nazis were known for being?

[@antonioyeats2149]

The original 'good cop' xD

[@JJ-qv1to]

You don’t want your lackies be caught lacking in your stories

[@blazingblaze250]

Take my like and never come back

[@hamstsorkxxor]

Yes, try hard not to be crackalackin'!

[@supersharkboiii]

take my like and dont leave, just stay right here forever

[@idontknoq4813]

DAMMIT

[@moonlightflora5876]

take my like. just do it

[@Sir_Lorekeep]

11:49 I absolutely hate the trope of “I can’t let vengeance consume me or I’ll be just as bad as [dude who really does deserve it]!” only after the protagonist has killed in the double or triple digits all of the minions of the evil boss as though those guys lives don’t matter, and then the protagonist leaves feeling morally superior for arguably sacrificing the lives of all the villain’s future victims for a sense of self righteousness.

[@chansesturm7103]

I think it'd be interesting if a story did that, but in such a way that showed how the protagonist really only sees those they consider their equal-that is, those with immense power such as themselves-as truly human, and thus worth not killing. Anyone who was weaker than themselves they encountered in the story was only spared by virtue of supporting the protagonist or otherwise not getting in their way. This would, of course, be enhanced by several close-calls earlier in the story where they did in fact come very close to killing a well-meaning but perhaps annoying minor character who the protagonist saw as an obstacle despite their intentions.

[@spacebassist]

Bro you can't just post obi-wan spoilers like that Also, like hell. You can quit vengeance, it happens when you get your revenge

[@KeeperoftheNight]

It's my least favourite trope too. Like, in principal I'm against the death penalty, and I'm especially against some vigilante thinking they can be judge, jury, and executioner, but if someone deserves to die for their crimes, it would be the guy who committed genocide (or was a mob boss or what have you), not his soldiers?? How do even well respected screenwriters completely miss that?

[@jacksonhoiland2664]

​@@chansesturm7103 that would be interesting and all though I have not read the series doctor Manhatten is from I think it has the idea of heros not considering those weaker worth keeping alive in it. The problem is most writers attempting this would likely not do it well as it seems like it would be difficult and could easily just lead to the story being overly edgy.

[@mariustan9275]

@@KeeperoftheNight Yeah. That's like sparing Hitler after killing an entire Wehrmacht unit.

[@Doctorgeo7]

I remember that in Kim Possible, there is a corporation that contracts out minions. They even offered tiers of minions to contract. The main villain Draken couldn't afford the better minions, so his tended to be incompetent. Funnily enough, there was an episode where they became competent and more confident in themselves. Later in the episode, they were "defeated" when Kim's partner Ron convinces them that being Draken's henchmen was too dangerous. So they all told Draken they were quitting.

[@saparapatepete]

This is hillarious....and also shows an interesting point. While many villains have the resources to get some minions to work under them, there's still a limit if we go for a bit of realism. Where are they getting their henchmen?, are they hiring trained mercenaries?, a bunch of street bums?, indoctrinated followers?, are they human?, are these robots built for combat?, undeads like zombies and skeletons?, trained beasts?, are the henchmen mind controlled victims of the villain's powers? One can ask lots of questions.....

[@gorkemaykut5230]

​@@saparapatepete there was a show about an AI predicting potential criminal activities by using public information to save human lives and at some point their main antagonist became much more advanced version of that AI where they also had access to more private information on their citizen but the problem is under this new regime even though they were invading people's privacy they were also providing way more safety so the question became how much are you willing to give away from your freedom to get the perfect safety In one of their quarrels our main cast was trying to acces a computer but one of scientists of the enemy used himself as a sacrifice to blow up the access panel cause if he were to die during his job his family's future was basically guaranteed to have no financial problems That goon believed in what they were doing to the point where they were sacrificing their lives to protect it

[@Danielss250]

I think this thing about the villains killing their own men came from Darth Vader, being one of the most iconic villans of all time and all that, however ppl fail to notice that he never killed the little guys, he never kills or tortures random trooopers, he only killed the incompetent high ranking officers who failed at their job, they make it clear that the empire got too big to manage correctly and that there are way too many incompetent ppl in high military positions. In fact on episode 5 there is a scene where one random guy goes to vader's room to give him a message from the emperor and he sees vader without his helmet, a prime case for a mediocre villain to kill his own men out of some sense of insecurity, but Vader doesn't do that because he actually has a brain instead of being just a mindless insecure psychopath, in fact he barelly reacts to that at all, he just goes business as usual.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

I think Darth Vader had a long history of awful familial trauma (including probably a mix of depression, narcissistic tendencies and PTSD amongst many others), that’s why.

[@louisduarte8763]

Because professionals have standards, that's why. And he choked that one admiral on the Death Star for basically insulting his and The Emperor's religion.

[@Aredel]

Vader actually killing people didn’t start until Episode 5. In A New Hope, Tarkin kept him on a tight leash, so he couldn’t actually murder any of his subordinates. In Empire Strikes Back, Tarkin is dead, and Vader is losing his mind trying to capture look, so he’s snapping and strangling the big-wigs who fuck up in delivering his prize.

[@bloodysimile4893]

​@@Aredel rebels pilot who were kill by Vader on the assault first Death star: Are we a joke to you? Also Vader didn't like the Death Star. Neither did Thrawn.

[@WhiteFangofWar]

Vader still remembers when the Clone Troopers were badass and worthy companions in war.

[@honestkyn718]

Every good villain needs marketable lackies that can't win but are still a threat

[@eyesack6845]

Remember when stormtroopers were actually a threat?

[@Eric6761]

​@@eyesack6845 no

[@honestkyn718]

@@Eric6761 remember when they killed Luke's aunt and uncle? Also remember how Finn has no problem killing them even though he was deeply affected by one's death? Star wars has a weird relationship with then

[@Eric6761]

@@honestkyn718 Love and hate but at least they are marketable... probably Disney

[@Kris-wo4pj]

@@Eric6761 very first movie (4th one in timeline) were told to miss on purpose by vader cuz he didnt want them to kill leia after they wiped all the rebels in under 5 seconds. since then everyone makes stormtroopers cant shoot jokes that it became canon cuz lucas is a hack.

[@UXMetalVTuber]

Always remember to make them completely brainless and unable to have an opinion, think for themselves, or have any personality overall other than being a dummy for the heroes to beat up!

[@undernetjack]

Exactly! How else is the underpowered hero supposed to advance through the Enemy stronghold!?

[@Eric6761]

​@@undernetjack also ask makes authors ask themselves, If the villain it's that powerful why needing lackeys? I mean it's not like the villain needs to assert his dominance when just their Power is above anyone and it's not like he wants to rule the World or anything

[@georgiykireev9678]

​@@Eric6761 that bit can actually be explained - projection of power. You may be powerful beyond comprehension, but a single entity can (usually) only be in one place at any given time. Henchmen allow you to work towards multiple goals at once instead of chasing your enemies around on your own like a dumbass. Granted, this falls apart when the powerful villain sits back and does nothing until the henchmen are gone, but just having them makes sense

[@ignatius929]

This advice also works perfectly when making side characters for the hero. Especially in harem, doubly so in isekai, since a woman only role in life is to serve the man.

[@mariustan9275]

I mean what else are we gonna do? Make the mooks sympathetic and show how the villain is conscripting these poor peasants who just wanna farm? Thats dumb! We might accidentily make the protagonist look like a murderer and add moral complexity to the story!

[@ActiveAdvocate1]

"You're supposed to swoop in, sword drawn, banner flying--that's what all the other knights did!" "Yeah, right before they burst into flame." "That's not the point!" Substitute the word "knights" for "minions", and you have a poorly-written fantasy army.

[@shadowcween7890]

Makes me think of the scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail where he just starts killing wedding goers for no real reason other than misunderstanding

[@Yggi11]

What is that from?

[@SirNeutral]

@@Yggi11 Shrek

[@lordanubis1458]

​@@shadowcween7890 That was the part with the prince that wants to sing and get out of an arranged marriage right?

[@ActiveAdvocate1]

@@Yggi11, Shrek.

[@boid9761]

This video perfectly encapsulates what I loved about The Incredibles' goons. Syndrome actually gave them guns and specialized equipment, they actually know how to deal with Supers, like that scene where a goon tried to find Violet and used dirt in the water to find her. But the best one by far is the fact they do not faint immediately when punched by Dash

[@FirstnameLastname-bp2pg]

That movie was able to make the heroes feel strong without sacrificing the minions’ intelligence.

[@boid9761]

@@FirstnameLastname-bp2pg It's the exact same feeling as having your younger cousin compete with you in a game and not holding back. It made his victories much more authentic

[@Caldella]

I loved the mom's monologue in that movie, too, where she explains to Dash/Violet that the bad guys on the island aren't going to be like bad guys in TV shows and hold back because the two are kids. It did a great job of conveying the actual threat of the villains while staying kid-friendly.

[@diegodunn-humphrey512]

Incredibles is peak ​@@Caldella

[@dbsommers1]

I remember having an evil overlord inform a henchman he had failed him for the last time… He fired him on the spot. And no severance package. He had to be dragged off by other minions as he cried out he couldn’t make rent with no severance package. Hey, it was still evil.

[@bigman1163]

10/10

[@Sorain1]

My God, that's so evil, letting the world do the torturing to death for him! It's also brilliantly efficient.

[@kompatybilijny9348]

I had my main villain do the same, but to a guy he made general simply because of politics and promises with his family. He strips him of his rank and tells him to send someone with at least half a brain as replacement.

[@isuckatusernames4297]

corporate dakr lord

[@saparapatepete]

Hillarious subversion XD

[@mesektet5776]

When making evil lackeys, remember your protagonists are small parts of the world. Each evil lackey will have dealt with at least a dozen troublemakers before and adapted since then. Creating a competent, set of lackeys with a savvy ruthless nature will make the story come alive. Adapting to said lackeys will give the protagonists growth. This is why lackeys like Arachnos or the Guild of Calamitous Intent make such an impression.

[@louisduarte8763]

The Guild seem to have the most capable and competent henchmen in the Strangers and Blackout troops. More so than the Monarch's Henchmen, and maybe Baron Underbheit's former soldiers, Monstroso's Associates, and whatever those guys who work for Wide Whale are called.

[@marocat4749]

Hell if they are good enough and have reasonable doubts, they might can get turned into a decent antihero , or help the heroes at least. It looses any impactif you do it to everyone, but some, make probably either a third oparty if they are fed up with their boss, or antiheroes.

[@BlackIce3190]

Another City of Heroes player. Ballin’.

[@mesektet5776]

@@BlackIce3190 "Heroes"? All hail Lord Recluse!

[@JoshTigerheart]

There's just isn't a better way to make a bunch of mooks actually feel threatening than letting the player tear through street gangs no problem and then hand them their butt on a platter by same-level mooks. Gotta love Arachnos!

[@hexcodeff6624]

Batman Begins is a perfect example of "I won't kill a man, except for 30 of these background characters"

[@GrndAdmiralThrawn]

Assassin’s Creed II

[@jackbaxter2223]

@@GrndAdmiralThrawn Assassin's Creed II is made worse by the fact that the final act starts with Ezio assassinating the main villain, only to learn that it was a double. So then he slaughters his way through the guards, then decides to spare the villain he had been trying to murder 30 minutes earlier!

[@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457]

​@@jackbaxter2223 Even back, when I was twelve, I thought that was the stupidest thing, I have ever seen.

[@Robohead-z6z]

But that’s okay cause they’re background characters and no one cares about them. 🙃

[@YEY0806]

​@Invisble748, they don't have a unique character model. Therefore forfeit

[@SmartAlec1]

The best way to write a lackey is to have their boss end them for counter productive reasons, obviously.

[@Eric6761]

The 3 soldiers left: Steve the Commander who is the pet of the Dark lord, Jerry The lackey and Carl, yeah just Carl, he was a pizza delivery guy who was forced to become a lackey

[@sempersolus5511]

@@Eric6761 "Sire! I have returned from Western Lands with the item you have requested!" "Uh, great! You've been promoted to general."

[@brennonlewis]

​@@sempersolus5511 not wrong at all with some franchises

[@IFuckingLoveFrenchToast]

"Get me a coke" "Is pepsi ok?" "Death"

[@danpop1235]

if done well that can be used to show how evil the boss is. and it could even be used to defeat the boss by getting the lackeys to rebell. createing an intresting story beat.

[@PossumReviews]

11:23 - 12:45, this reminds me of the Disney Star Wars sequel trilogy. One of the worst things about it is the way they wasted Finn's potential as a character. As a former storm trooper, he could have had an internal conflict about fighting his former brothers-in-arms. He could have been a deep and complicated character with a lot of emotional baggage, struggling to overcome a lifetime of indoctrination, and all sorts of themes could have been explored as he fulfilled his arc. But instead, he just yells "whoo" as he kills his former friends and gets reduced to Rey's bumbling sidekick.

[@spectroelectro3772]

I remember someone once commented that they believed Finn was meant to be the main character, but since China and feminism, they had to create Rey, explaining her being out of place

[@DetectiveNyx]

​@spectroelectro3772 chances are China and Feminism are the excuses given to cover up that he was shunted down the priority list due to racism, because selling that it was #feminism and chinese censorship or whatever generates that kind of outrage that goes ballistic on twitter, but does nothing to improve anything for anyone but the ceos at disney

[@maxthepaladin2147]

Finn: Who are you? Migs Mayfeld: I'm you, but the writers actually explored my potential

[@Aredel]

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY - FN2187 for the course of his career.

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

Just follow the Star Wars playbook: do ALL of this at ONCE, so the audience doesn't know if the mooks of this week are the surprisingly competent elites of the earlier timeline, or the totally incompetent buffoons of the late one! If the _audience_ has no idea how dangerous they are, imagine how frightened the _heroes_ must be!

[@tskmaster3837]

"Only Imperial Stormtroopers are this precise", said someone who should already know better.

[@Kris-wo4pj]

stormtroopers able to clear a ship in 5 mins, able to kill most of the jedis in under a week and turn the tides of a war against druids in under a month but still not able to shoot some druids, a wookie, a princess, a untrained farmer with a lightsaber and a smuggler.

[@MusicoftheDamned]

​@@Kris-wo4pj To be "fair", the competent Stormtroopers were the cloned, retconned ones, so it makes sense that they're exception to the otherwise stupid "rule". (This even though the badness of the writing of the live-action prequels is only topped by the Disney sequels and _Solo_ and perhaps that infamous Christmas special every pretends doesn't exist.)

[@1.-ulysses334]

@@MusicoftheDamned Well the storm troopers in episode 4 did kill everyone on the Tantive IV very easily, and later in the movie we are told that they were given orders to let the rebels escape of the death star so they could track the millenium falcon back to the rebel base. So yeah, sometimes you get a John Wick storm trooper and sometimes you get a jar jar

[@MusicoftheDamned]

@@1.-ulysses334 Ah, right. I forgot about that since like I said, I'm not that big on _Star Wars_ personally outside of both _Clone Wars_ animations. So thanks for the correction even if my amusement still stands about what failures they are overall. Still, it's a pity that after _Episode 4_ they just pretty much stop being competent from then on even after the "deliberate missing" would no longer make sense except maybe when commiting other background atrocities against mostly defenseless people. Actually, was there ever another instance outside of the prequels where Stormtroopers were shown actually winning an engagement by themselves against at least somewhat armed forces? Or is the Ewoks kicking and killing their asses really the only in-movie example of that given the nature of the _Stars Wars_ universe? [/not rhetorical]

[@antoinelachapelle3405]

My favourite minion-trope is soldiers armed with assault rifles *running up* towards a character that is very clearly a master in melee combat instead of using their superior range to land shots while stepping back or at least holding their ground ! Tactics just cramp the evil style and HOW ELSE is my hero supposed to one-punch end their life with a back-flip ???

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

Yeah! Not like they can use backflips to get closer to anyone!

[@kaisermaximal8123]

Here's an idea for a story: An incompetent warlord working for the main villain regularly covers up the mess ups of his goons because he knows hell be killed of anyone finds out about his failures

[@GinHindew110]

Thats the whole chinese government, and thats how things tend to go very bad, because everybody is busy pretending nothing is happening

[@marctaco2624]

This is most of the Galactic Empire

[@StarSage66]

@@marctaco2624 Yep, the imperial officer that doesn't want someone important to realize they screwed up has been the center of more than one Star Wars story.

[@doomyboi]

First day of being a 2nd Century Warlord...

[@patrickmartin2236]

This is quite an historically accurate pitch, actually.

[@ThenameisMarsh]

my favorite trope with evil lackeys: one of the evil lackeys realizes he is evil, and so begins a journey of redemption and swears to convert other evil lackeys to give up their HAHAHAH no he just kills them even though he was just like them yesterday.

[@josecarlosmoreno9731]

Sequel Trilogy Star Wars in a nutshell.

[@phantom1053]

"You're changing sides!?" "Yeah. Turns out we were the bad guys." "Why didn't you just tell us? We would've switched, too!" D:

[@DylanoRevs]

This makes me appreciate "The Raid: Redemption". That movie has evil lackeys/henchmen that are actually threatening. The henchmen uses tactics and advantage in numbers to wipe out most of the hero's comrades until it was just him and a few others. Not to mention that some of them are pretty good at fighting, giving the hero a hard time to proceed. Heck, the final fight of that movie wasn't even done by the hero vs the main villain, rather it was the hero (along with his brother) against a stronger lackey/henchmen named "Mad dog".

[@lukevankleef4245]

I think one big advantage The Raid has is that the titular Raid takes up the majority of the film. Because most of its runtime is spend on raiding the apartment building, the film has to constantly keep the heroes on their toes. As such, the badguys need to remain a threat for basically the film's entire run time.

[@sleepyrowdy1826]

Yeah the machete gang is also terrifying

[@jakeelwell2132]

Good point

[@thegreenrenegade7759]

Fun fact: Hans Scharff was an interrogator with the Luftwaffe during world war 2. And his techniques werent so much torture as say, being nice. Portraying himself as an ally whilst preying on fears of the Gestapo. He would share jokes, homemade food, and even alcoholic beverages. One POW was even allowed to take a BF 109 on a trial run. And his techniques were remarkably effective. Take notes writers. Id love to see more psychological battles whilst being interrogated instead of violence.

[@manicwebb]

Batman Begins totally makes the mistake of forgetting that killing the lackeys still counts as killing. Bruce spends the entire movie talking about how he doesn't kill, making it a core aspect of his character. The problem is that early in the movie, he burns down a building and kills several members of the League of Shadows. He even admits to having watched one of the men die, but the movie's narrative refuses to acknowledge that Bruce is responsible for their deaths and that he violated his own "no killing" rule.

[@Oxtocoatl13]

Also that climactic scene where Bruce and Ras Al Ghul are on the train and he goes "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you", before leaving Ras to die in an imminent train crash, was hypocritical as fuck. If you put someone in a situation where they will certainly die and leave them there, you have killed them. End of story.

[@vectorequinox6202]

@@Oxtocoatl13 All he did was break someone's legs and leave them in a train he set to crash. It's not murder if batman just chooses to ignore causality.

[@matityaloran9157]

To be fair, every live action Batman has a kill count. In the 1966 movie, Adam West’s Batman punches two Penguin henchmen who then literally cease to exist (because of the mechanism the Penguin used to get there) and realizes that they’re dead and he and Robin are somewhat bothered by it but then Batman reckons there was nothing they could do about it. (In the same movie, Bruce Wayne tells the villains that if they’ve hurt his love interest Kitka “I swear by all that is sacred, I’ll kill you all” and the Keaton-Kilmer-Clooney Batman famously killed enemies. Christian Bale’s Batman doesn’t acknowledge it in Batman Begins but he acknowledges it when he kills Two Face in the Dark Knight and when he’s called out for killing Ra’s al-Ghul in The Dark Knight Rises he says it was necessary rather than saying “well, technically I didn’t kill him”.

[@HMNCLunar]

@@matityaloran9157 Don't forget Pattinson in the car chase! Loved the movie tho, but I don't really think the number of casualties there was 0.

[@matityaloran9157]

@@HMNCLunar Good point

[@HurtFrej]

"To acknowledge the humanity of an evil person is to acknowledge one's own potential to fall to evil and thus guard our hearts against it." - That is a a really nice quote! I might use that, is it your own?

[@BX--nq6gf]

Evil Minions are one of my favorite troupes. You don't understand. I LOVE making the evil army grunts have tons of character, fleshing out their heroes and rank structure, considering each individual minion and how they feel. I LOVE making minions component and dangerous, it's my favorite thing to do in writing.

[@SwaggyG_2102]

With the trope of how often villains kill their henchmen for failing them, regardless of the seriousness of the situation or how many times they failed, it makes me wonder just HOW these villains managed to get their hands on so many goons that are loyal to them, and not willing to backstab them, if not run away, at a moment's notice.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

Maybe they are too unempathetic due to awful choices that they made when they’re once good guys (or years of terrifying abuse), so they have an army of unlucky mooks in the midst of their lairs.

[@vladprus4019]

Fun fact: In the Qin empire, in China the some of the revolts that brought the end of that empire broke out because some officers didn't manage to fully got their (relatively minor) jobs done over stuff out of their control. Punishment for that was death, so those officers just decided that when such problem happened they could as well rebel.

[@Aredel]

@@vladprus4019 and because of this, vital information rarely reached the Emperor’s ears, so uprisings and foreign invasions were a constant matter and he was completely clueless about them.

[@matityaloran9157]

The Joker, as portrayed in The Dark Knight, does that by exploiting the criminally insane

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

@@vladprus4019Yep, Lu Bang, founder of the Han Dynasty, was a minor officer who was late to a military muster and since the punishment for that is death, he decided to bring his men into the mountains and rebel, eventually becoming a major warlord and then emperor.

[@rowboat3940]

There's only two ways to show how dangerous lackies are. Have them treat civilians badly, or have them outgun the local police/rebels.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

And these are not mutually exclusive, worth keeping in mind.

[@chopperjoe1998]

Treating civilians badly should instead be used as a way to showcase how corrupt/tyrannical/abusive a faction or entire regime can be, but not exactly dangerous.

[@ChaosRayZero]

I think this is one of the more subtle reasons everyone remembers "Adventure era" *Dr. Eggman* being a serious threat. He's always been a grinning goofball who wants to take over the world and _he never stopped being that,_ but at least in *Sonic Adventure 2* and *Shadow The Hedgehog* it was largely implied *his robots could outgun an organization that* *_literally calls themselves G.U.N._* In the former game you got to play as Eggman in the pilot seat of one of his mechs and _blow the military's defense robots to smithereens yourself!_

[@evelynivy6124]

Honestly, this makes me really want to see a second part to the episode on power fantasy. It seems like poor attempts at power fantasy are at the core of a lot of the issues presented here (as well as in several other episodes), and so it'd be really interesting to further explore why power fantasy ends up hitting these pitfalls, and how that can be avoided.

[@Petrico94]

Simply it's the goal to have a self insert that accomplishes major feats and good wins. The whole point is escapism from real world grey issues like doing amazing things is either hard or unlikely usually done by a large team and generations of study, and conflicts usually have a silver lining to why the other team is fighting or needs to take a stand, or the larger more obvious team is doing questionable actions like an empire. It's more like a tire hurdle stepping in each pitfall and moving on top the next cause jogging is too basic.

[@MoffMuppet]

Don’t forget to add that random lackey that actually manages to fight our heroes for ten seconds. Not enough to actually harm them, mind you, but enough that they will be singled out forever as the biggest badass the heroes will ever face.

[@anusaukko6792]

Will never forget that random shinobi who fought Madara in an even exchange for like 6 seconds before he got killed, absolute legend was probably the best ninja from his entire village.

[@77professional]

Saw this somewhere else a long time ago: "Minions: Evil/Competent/Loyal, pick any two.

[@matityaloran9157]

Fagin from Oliver Twist hired Bill Sikes who is the first two but despite not feeling a particular sense of loyalty to Fagin (and being a brutal, sadistic, child-killing thug) still has a behavioural code that Fagin can exploit

[@purplehaze2358]

That rant on the dehumanization of evil lackeys immediately called to mind the quote, "He who fights monsters risks becoming one themselves".

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

"Beware when fighting monsters, lest ye become a monster; for when you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." --- Friedrich Nietzsche

[@etharchildres3976]

My favorite minion characters are the kind that try to have agency outside of the main villain’s plan. Mr. Pickles and Mr. Trout from Boxtrolls, Saruman (Yes, technically he is Sauron’s minion), and Sandor Clegane from A Clash Of Kings. All of them try to break off from their leader in some way, they want to be in charge, and make decisions. It's fun.

[@unicorntomboy9736]

I always think of Assassin's Creed guards

[@lordanubis1458]

Kefka from FF6 is also another prime example of a minion that takes on the role of the big bad, nowadays the game is well known as the one where the evil clown manages to end the world

[@etharchildres3976]

@@lordanubis1458 I love Kefka too. In FF5 they had the same kind of gimmick where there was a colorful minion who attacks the party on the behest of the BBEG, and if you played that game first you may think Ghestal was the final boss. But at the end of act 3 Kefka subverts this beautifully and you have one of the most iconic moments in the series.

[@snailofkale]

mine are the super paper mario villain troupe ^-^

[@ChaosRayZero]

@@etharchildres3976 Sounds like what TV Tropes calls "The Starscream." Although a quick glance over a wiki about one of those Boxtrolls guys sounds more like "Heel-Face Turn."

[@blandpotato545]

Remember in the Batman when the riddlers goons were literally just redditors. And they were still smarter than 90% of goons.

[@Petrico94]

There's this one scene in the animated series where one guy is smart enough to see Batman and just shut the door. Half these guys probably dropped out of highschool but this one guy has been working long enough not to get in Batman's way when he does prowl around.

[@goldenfiberwheat238]

They were 4chan users

[@louisduarte8763]

@@goldenfiberwheat238 Or 8-chan.

[@supremecaffeine2633]

My money's on 4chan users. Those madlads are better than any alphabet agency when motivated.

[@romulusnuma116]

​@@goldenfiberwheat238 they were both I bet

[@LunaRoseManor]

I'm glad this episode addressed the normalisation of torture in media. Turns out people don't typically respond well to being dangled upside-down over a fire escape and will just tell you things if you're nice to them.

[@anthonyschlott916]

I still have a few visceral memories of watching Jack Bauer strapping people to chairs and beating them to death as a young kid. Entertainment-wise, there is something intensely fascinating about seeing a character so worn down from desperation that they resort to tearing off fingers.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

TWA has mentioned this several times now, but tbh I can't recall any story with a hero torturing anyone, except asoiaf I guess but that doesn't really count. And here you are telling me that it's normalized, so I'm confused.

[@nonamepasserbya6658]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 It's anime, edgy stuff like Attack on Titan and Tokyo Ghoul

[@danielstreeter6738]

"people...will just tell you things if you're nice to them." You haven't read many prisoner of war accounts, have you?

[@anthonyschlott916]

@@nonamepasserbya6658 Love TG & AoT

[@IronicCliche]

I know I've seen at least one series where the dark lord that constantly kills his minions actually gets assassinated before the heroes show up. I remember it being really good.

[@aokhoinguyenang3992]

One of my favorite trope is brave/stupid henchmen. Like in Fist of the Northstar, they just saw Kenshiro walkthrough a falling building cutting a chunk with his head & say we can take him

[@conradojavier7547]

What Ken gets his Ass kicked by Thouzer or Raoh/Ken-Oh?

[@darkestccino5405]

While watching through Avatar 2, I was unironically rooting for the villains by the end of the movie, because the movie had unintentionally made them the underdogs.

[@yehuda8589]

Golden Kamuy does an amazing job writing its lackeys. Unnamed lackeys feel incredibly threatening thanks to the fact that almost all of them are veteran soldiers making it believable as to how they're able to easily adopt military formations and strategies when fighting the protagonists; and the manga doesn't just pay lipservice to how tough they are since there are many times unnamed lackeys inflict serious wounds against important characters in the story. Golden Kamuy is just seriously incredible, I've never seen another series with so much attention spent giving complete arcs to even the most minor of characters.

[@patricknaughton6636]

How impressed I am with Golden Kamuy's ability to keep unique, threatening villains onscreen without being afraid to kill them off is second only to how impressed I am that they're 4 seasons into an anime written for the 18-35yo male demographic without a single drop of weird fanservice shots or titty jiggling. It's nice to be able to watch anime with my bedroom door open for once.

[@brunop.8745]

@@patricknaughton6636 you should read the GK manga, it's a masterpiece (it's also chock-full of fanservice, but it does it to the *dudes* instead of the girls, funnily enough)

[@julietkilo9716]

Men of culture

[@tombrady1434]

After seeing the video, I was about to write more or less the same comment. From time to time, I actually reread the chapter where a random nameless dude continues to fight for a moment after being stabbed through the head.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Let's give those underlings/lackies some slack! Even if they are often beaten by heroes in any shapes and sizes and got berated when they failed their mission, at least they sacrificed themselves to fight for their loyalty to their villainous boss.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

Nice speech!

[@secretname2670]

"Deserting from duty? What's that? Obviously if someone is your boss you have to commit your whole life to them even if they treat you unfairly and poorly. I know that because i worked under a boss i was too scared to criticise or resign from work."

[@pRahvi0]

@@secretname2670 "Yes, that's good. Put that in the script. And no counterarguments if you don't want to be transferred from script team into toilet cleaning!"

[@solbadguy9025]

Love that nod to Fist Of The North Star/Hokuto No Ken. Now that you tackled Evil Minions you're one step closer(a small one but a step nonetheless) to a TWA episode on Tokusatsu Hero shows(Power rangers, Super Sentai, Kamen Rider and so on). Looking forward till that day comes.

[@conradojavier7547]

Kenshiro is a Fat Shamer for killing off Mr. Heart.

[@lordanubis1458]

​@@conradojavier7547 Take it easy, son. It's just a drawing

[@sirkillalot9892]

@@CCLOSPINA It depends on each installment whether they are physically capable of creating more than one monster.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

@@CCLOSPINA it also depends on how heinous they are.

[@AidanDaGreat]

totally did not misread Super Sentai

[@SupremeViola]

One reason for dehumanizing the lackeys is, unfortunately, the way ratings systems work. If the enemies the hero cuts through are too human, that can be the difference between PG and PG-13. This is part of why the Telmarines in the more recent Prince Caspian film had to wear face-covering helmets.

[@beomcheolkim8543]

For those who want an interesting take on the Evil Lackey trope, I recommend the Black Company by Glen Cook. It's a dark fantasy novel featuring an elite mercenary group called the Black Company hired by a tyrannical sorceress to be her evil lackeys against a rebellion led by a Chosen One. It is written in the viewpoint of one of the evil lackeys, the chief medic no less, and the company do all the things the video says "not" to, especially the Mook tactics 101.

[@jackbaxter2223]

The whole series is good, but the first book is amazing. My favourite thing they did was pile a load of gold on a table in the middle of the city with the sorceress setting up an enchantment that would kill anyone who touched it, unless they first placed the severed head of the rebel leader on a plate. Then they put up signs explaining how it worked and let things happen. Of course, when they killed the rebel leader themselves the first thing they did was use his severed head to steal the gold.

[@RekkinOnTheInternet]

Black Company is so incredibly good. It also makes some interesting comments to the effect that the areas of the country subjugated by The Lady are actually quite stable and have a decent standard of living, while everywhere the Rebels have "liberated" are in total anarchy and chaos. Also, it takes a while to get there (it's in one of the later books), but the company wizards enchant everyone's teeth to protect against disease. How's that for a fun little detail?

[@AtilaElari]

The text insert on 11:50 about humanizing evil characters so we could acknowledge our own capacity for evil really got me. More than I expected, really. A very important point that should be talked about way more.

[@Prototype-357]

Does anyone know any stories where a mook survives the protagonist's attack on their battalion but all their fellow minions got killed and later on they found out the protagonist ended up sparing the life of their evil boss which pushes the minion to get revenge for his fallen comrades? I've been searching a while but I can't find it :(

[@Eric6761]

Ehh... kinda Doctor Gero?

[@iwannareadforever8185]

write it that would be awesome

[@SlapstickGenius23]

@@Eric6761 That’s Right, Gero Williams in Dragon Ball Z!

[@davifernandopereiraborges5168]

​@@Eric6761 more or less,goku not killed all red ribbon soldiers

[@Eric6761]

@@davifernandopereiraborges5168 but 90%

[@planetbob6703]

Don’t forget to introduce the concept that the henchmen are forced into service. Maybe have one of the main characters be one of them but desert at the start of the movie. This will set up an interesting moral conundrum wether the reader/viewer should truly be celebrating when the heroes mow down hundreds of them. You don’t have to actually go through with it if that’s to much work. The enemy grunts are just as disposable as before by the end of the movie and we’ll drop that storyline by the sequel!

[@mariustan9275]

Didn't some of the sequal star wars films do this, with Finn? But then again it wasn't explored at all and Finn doesn't seem to show any remorse gunning down his former comrades.

[@emblemblade9245]

@@mariustan9275 Yes, OP’s comment was a clear reference to Finn

[@mariustan9275]

@@emblemblade9245 Oh I thought apparently there were many instances of this.

[@ConnanTheCivilized]

True, but I think we need more stories with main characters faced with draft notices or economic hardship tempting them to serve shady powers that be. It’s hard to get behind ‘heroes’ who never face the same hard choices as the public they are supposed to be so much cooler than. Edit: Yes, the Star Wars Sequels did this, then quickly abandoned any characterization.

[@mariustan9275]

@@ConnanTheCivilized I like this idea. Show the heroes having to face things like "My mom is sick but the medicine is so expensive I need to fight for the evil empire to buy it". I'd be interesting to see how heroes put up with sitatutions liek these.

[@ShanRenxin]

As someone who worked in a call center, that bit with the IT guy saying the job gave him a “well of hatred for humanity “ is too, too relatable.

[@markcochrane9523]

In Hokuto no Ken's defense, the mooks are 7-9 foot tall strongmen who are used to steamrolling half-starved normies, and they do use the basic tactics of attacking foes all at once, attacking from behind, etc.

[@gideonbrown4215]

“To acknowledge the humanity of an evil person is to acknowledge one’s own potential to fall to evil and thus guard our hearts against it.” TWA dropping more wisdom than Confucius tonight!

[@pRahvi0]

That sounds like something Confucius or some guy like that might have actually said - really or at least allegedly.

[@SuperboyLilly]

What's TWA?

[@gideonbrown4215]

@@SuperboyLilly Terrible Writing Advice.

[@SuperboyLilly]

@@gideonbrown4215 I honestly thought you were talking about some show or movie. 🤦

[@Goldenleyend]

I think you skipped addressing the elephant in the room. Attacks, strategies and even thoughts from the lackeys requires counter attacks, counter-strategies and counter arguments respectively from the heroes. Basic thoughts I can make, but a counter to them? Too much work, lets just stay on step 1 for heroes and have lackeys somehow be below that.

[@GrndAdmiralThrawn]

15:04 This praising of the henchmen’s mooking is absolutely going in my parody superhero world. After all, henchmen competence is defined by how well choreographed the fight scenes are and how many times they can get the hero to showcase their powers.

[@matityaloran9157]

In Buzz Lightyear of Star Command Episode One The Torque Armada, the villainous Zurg praises his grubs (science lackeys) for their work to incentivize better productivity instead of being his usual angry and meanspirited self but then he finds out that the “unbreakable” metals used to restrain Buzz Lightyear and his team were actually just “very difficult to break” so Zurg reverts back to his old self in relation to his henchmen

[@GrndAdmiralThrawn]

@@matityaloran9157 I loved that show! I wish they would put it on Disney+

[@matityaloran9157]

@@GrndAdmiralThrawn Agreed

[@mackerelmafia2898]

"The punishment for failure is death, Admiral Karath. But the failure was Calo's, not yours. You may rise." -Darth Malak

[@MusicoftheDamned]

Oh gods. Thank you for this. The entire "less 'heroic sadism' please" at 11:20 is honestly what bothers me the most, even more than the sheer stupidity tactics, and I say that as a misanthrope. Depending on how (frequently) the author uses it, it can potentially say some rather disturbing things about them.

[@ryanaing5302]

It does remind me of things like Batman and Superman's whole shtick, if I'm using the correct example. Then again, that felt needlessly edgy with the way they were handled for a time. And then of course, there's Steven Universe's whole debacle and everyone's harsh criticism towards its messages and themes, especially when it concerns a certain despicable individual on KZbin that made such a scene at the time.

[@MusicoftheDamned]

@@ryanaing5302 Eh, it's far more Batman's schtick than Superman's, who if anything tends to hold back a lot and tries to deescalate first, to the point that he ends up quite taking a few hits he shouldn't, especially given his super speed. Unless you meant that horrible movie _Batman v. Superman_ movie where Supes was a dour, forced Jesus analogy (if Jesus was emo and a tad misanthropic) and Batman was an outright psycho who killed people. If so, then none of the DCEU portrayals of "heroes" under Snyder's cynical and idiotic pen are the norm, thankfully, unless the characters have turned outright evil or are being written by the equally edgelord Frank Miller. (I can't comment about _Steven Universe_ since all I really know about that series are the controversies, particularly of the "Change Your Mind" (?) series finale episode, and that "Lesbian Space Rocks" meme.)

[@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457]

​@@ryanaing5302 What was the steven universe's controversies?

[@ryanaing5302]

@@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457 The show itself, or something outside of it?

[@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457]

@@ryanaing5302 Both?

[@Alverant]

How loyal are the evil minons? Can the hero say, "Work for me and I'll give you a raise! Health insurance included even dental!"

[@Eric6761]

And not kill you all for the minor error you commit

[@nonamepasserbya6658]

It depends, if the hero is rich or a noble then it's possible, if they are anti heroes, don't bother because to them, vengeance is above all and less minions = less mouths in famines

[@mariustan9275]

@@nonamepasserbya6658 I think in this case it's a hero prince who just tells the other army on the other side of the battlefield he'll pay them more and not kill them for failure. Cue an entire legion's of units deserting.

[@AtreVire]

8:27 that's a really good point, all things considered. You could beat most benders with bows and arrows if they weren't paying attention. But I guess since it's a kids show, they had to make some concessions

[@matityaloran9157]

Zhao uses archers against Aang in Season One

[@sheenyhive]

@@matityaloran9157 Just once. And never again for some reason.

[@matityaloran9157]

@@sheenyhive To be fair in the episode wherein they were introduced their boss was reluctant to have them used to chase after the Avatar when they were busy fighting an actual war.

[@Aredel]

@@matityaloran9157 Problem is that Zhao was promoted to admiral in that very scene. That's why he was able to take command of them and deploy them against the Avatar.

[@matityaloran9157]

@@Aredel True. Though it does provide an explanation (or at least potential explanation) of their later absence. They were actually needed to fight in the war

[@gongozar]

Evil lackeys is a trope that's actually handled amazingly in One Piece. All the elites are legitimately elite, usually requiring the heroes to awaken new abilities in order to defeat them. And even the regular foot soldiers have their own agency, making decisions based on changing circumstances. Like when one group of lackeys decides to totally change their allegiance after their commanding officer callously uses a biological weapon indiscriminately while openly stating that their lives don't matter. There's another group of lackeys that is only following a guy because they believe he genuinely cares about them and when he betrays them for his own ends, they're hurt and upset. Meanwhile, the one villain who uses literally brainless lackeys (zombies) only does so because he was scarred from watching his entire crew get slaughtered and doesn't want to ever experience that pain again.

[@joegaddy2030]

I agree with what you said. However, one thing never really made sense is why people join the Marines. If people know how shitty the celestial dragons are and the celestial dragons are protected by the Navy than shouldn't everyone also hate the Navy?

[@gongozar]

@@joegaddy2030 It's a great question and I think there are a few things that can give an answer to it. The first is that it seems very few people actually know about the Celestial Dragons. None of the Strawhats did, for example. And it makes sense considering that we've barely seen the Celestial Dragons outside Mariejois. I think the one exception is where the Donquixote family decided to live after abandoning their nobility, because everyone there knew who the Celestial Dragons were and hated them for it. Other than them though, most people only know of the World Government and even then they know very little about it. But I feel like the real reason people don't hate the Navy is because it's the only thing standing between them and the world's most notorious pirates. The World Government's propaganda is so effective that people really believe the pirates are far worse than anything else. Don't forget that Ace was absolutely despised by the common people of the One Piece world because of his father, even though we've never actually seen Roger do anything bad in the places he visited. But beyond that, it's all the people have ever known and it just seems right to them. Keep in mind that the One Piece world is still mostly dominated by monarchies so its people don't question why some people get the right to rule others and do what they want... Until the Revolutionary Army shows up and shatters that worldview, often leading to that country's monarchy being overthrown and abolished. Just for the record though, the three examples in my original comment were Queen's subordinates on Onigashima, Caesar Clown's henchmen on Punk Hazard, and Gecko Moria's zombies on Thriller Bark

[@ArcanineEspeon]

As an aspiring Pokémon fanfic writer, one of the things I spend the most time wondering about is how the one Grunt I gave all the funny lines to (so the others could be anything resembling a threat) not only keeps his job, but gets to participate in the big jobs that are important enough for the heroine to stumble in to. I already gave him a weird skill that makes him useful, but didn't justify him being in the plot or being kept around once he outlived his usefulness. Then my first idea was some convoluted scheme that involved one of his Pokémon that had a poseable thumbs writing an airtight contract for him and getting away with it because there is no Pokémon BAR. It was hilarious in my head, but barely made any sense. Then my partner just said "What about...nepotism?" Much more simple. But then that raised the question, why not just give Jerry a do-nothing job? Well, I already decided long ago that Jerry's Pokémon are smarter than he is, and then at the same time as the lawyer idea I decided that I wanted him to have something stupidly strong that makes no sense, such as Lucario or Kommo-o. Then more recently I decided that Jerry's Pokémon actually do not resent him, they are protective of him. He's THEIR idiot. So, thank you JP for indirectly helping me make a new connection and come up with a new idea. The connection: Jerry's Pokémon are actually really strong, no thanks to him, but he's just kind of part of the package deal. The idea: Maybe, despite spouting weird quips, having boundary issues and being generally oblivious, Jerry is actually really good at following orders.

[@ChaosRayZero]

"Jerry's Pokémon are actually really strong, no thanks to him, but he's just kind of part of the package deal." What I'm about to say to this depends on which evil organization he's working for, but you referring to him as a "Grunt" immediately made me think of *Team Rocket.* If _it is_ the big R that values his strong Pokémon more than they value him, _isn't forcefully taking strong Pokémon away from their trainers kind of the organization's whole MO?_ 🤔 (Same question if he works for Team Snagem or the like.)

[@ezrabraman6437]

In all seriousness I like how in the she-ra remake they occasionally cut to a squad of random goons to show that they are people too, also they win sometimes though they do fall into the classic trap of attacking one by one rather than all at once

[@nicolausg7058]

It reminded me about the Stormtroopers from the Star Wars and thier aim. Turns out, they were supposed to miss, so Skywalker and firends could save Princess and then later lead the Imperials to the Rebel's base. Quite clever, wasn't it ?

[@Kevkev1382]

I love how greed accuses the general of using a strawman argument and then immediately goes for a personal attack. It's a really good reference to the fallacie episode

[@coltpiecemaker]

Something to note about lackeys is that whenever you actually decide to focus on one to develop their side of the story, always make sure they turn into good guys in the end so that the audience will never feel conflicted about sympathizing with a bad guy! Just remember that all villains will automatically turn good when confronted with the lackluster ethics of their superiors, and will never try to justify their acts or, heaven forbid, actually have good reasons for being on team bad guy. Nope! All evil lackeys are just good people who have never had to do anything wrong up until a certain point, or are just brainwashed zombies who do everything they are told without thinking.

[@G102Y5568]

"Wait you never said we were going to kill them! I thought you just needed their wings!" "You naive girl, what did you think I would do after I captured all the dragons? Open a zoo?" "This is wrong! I quit!"

[@Janoha17]

X9 from Samurai Jack.

[@nonamepasserbya6658]

Well yeah, they didn't sign up for it to begin with since they were forced to work under the Dark Lord of Colonialism. Of course they would defect to the heroes side at any possible opportunity if they see that the grass is greener on the other side Hell even the colonial invaders themselves uses that tactic. When the US tried to invade Vietnam they used Japanese POWS to fight to feign "non involvement"

[@Cheesesteaks4Life98]

Don't forget to make sure that the the villain's top lackey has a 50% chance of defecting to the heroes or betraying the villain and seizing power for themselves causing the villain to run to the heroes for help. Now both of these could allow for interesting dynamics between the top lackey or betrayed villain and the heroes. Do the heroes fully trust them? Are they really defecting/pleading for help or is this just a ploy? Nah its much better to have them just 100% pull a Heel-Face Turn and fully join the good guys and make them fully trust them.

[@kevinblount7142]

Sometimes, their defection is due to their former boss treating them like crap one too many times. Somehow, the villain is ALWAYS surprised by this.

[@Asterion608]

I imagine when you jabbed at Fist of the North Star you have only watched the animation or videogames. In the manga the lackeys did try every single tactic under the sun and more, every single type of ambush imaginable, flanking, surrounding, attacking from the sky with any number and weapon imaginable. Is just that the martial art that Kenshiro uses literally haves a technique to counter anything on existence no matter how absurd or specific the situation.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

Hahaha, the manga is such a Shōnen Jump classic!

[@adamvegas5951]

I’m reminded of the throwing dynamite meme which is also from the fist of the North Star anime iirc

[@vectorequinox6202]

Yeah, in the anime it was definitely more of a problem of animating super elaborate fights every time a few guys shows up would have killed their budget.

[@Asterion608]

@@vectorequinox6202 Indeed, specially with the overly detailed art style of Tetsuo Hara.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

...where did he Anything fist of the north star?

[@andrewmcguinness1845]

I had this thought earlier today: why not have the villains and their minions use the power of friendship, just like the heroes? That could be really fun.

[@Petrico94]

There's no shortage of bad guy team ups, problem is they're against their same counterparts so it's just winners vs losers chess, or they're too selfish to get a competent organization going. But I'd also like a legit friendship based evil organization that is more well knit than the heroes and gets dangerous powers to defend their own. Or would friendship corrupt their evil ways until they're at an impasse, betray the co-darklord who got you here for ultimate power or sacrifice your own greed that drove this pairing.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

OSP has a Trope Talk that briefly touches the thought.

[@astitvavarma1079]

@@Petrico94 the red lotus from Legend of Korra

[@sarafontanini7051]

that's something i have planned for a fanfic I am writing. with two flavours: a set of villains purposely using the power of friendship for their own methods while being still selfish and having their own reasons to go with the plan (FOR NOW) and a second set who are jsut genunely friends who all want the same thing.

[@louisduarte8763]

@@Petrico94 Know what there aren't enough of? Straight-up villain-on-villain fights. In comic books, superheroes fight each other a lot (especially at Marvel), but what about the villains? Why don't they try to kill each other over who gets the honor of killing the hero they both hate? It felt like a breath of fresh air when DC had "The War of Jokes and Riddles", when The Joker and The Riddler split the other Gotham-based Bat-villains into 2 factions and fought each other.

[@ailius1520]

There was a great example of evil lackeys in the beginning of "Saving Private Ryan" where after D-Day there were a couple unarmed Czech guys who were surrendering and we saying, in Czech, something like "don't shoot us! They forced us to fight! We only pretended to shoot at you" only to be heroically shot by a couple allied soldiers who followed it up with a snazzy one-liner about boots.

[@Jacob_The_Human]

I just realized, we are only 19! Episodes away from twa ep100! Can't wait to see what jp has in store for us!

[@remixtheidiot5771]

"how to write milestone videos" or something.

[@thewhiteeagle9861]

Half the reason I watch TWA is the villains fight against Greed. Greed makes some good points and the villains are, well, villains and yet I’m still routing for Greed’s defeat. I’m really hoping somehow the General pulls off a win even knowing he would be awful and cause untold suffering upon the federation populace.

[@Superkid33]

Same! XD it’s the only KZbin channel I’ll watch the sponsorship sections. I’m fully invested too. I wonder if the ancient conspirators will try to manipulate things to get Chainsaw guy elected

[@eeg-rh7jv]

Greed is such a good vilain. He's cunning, persuasive and charismatic. And in a mainly light hearted story he is mainly the only one that is a credible threat

[@anonimanonim2710]

4:47 I instantly thought of the storm troopers! Their marksmanship is truly without equal!

[@heartlessmushroom]

This video made me realize how utterly *terrifying* evil lackeys would be if written to be competent. Samurai Jack, especially Season 5, did this incredibly well.

[@dakat5131]

Kind of funny how Star Wars shows the bad guys hassling commoners, but then they'll also have stuff like "Ohhh nooo those planets we've never seen before and have no personal connection to the protagonists just got destroyed". (Alderaan, though not fleshed out at the time at least had personal stakes for one of the protagonist. The other planets were more associated with characters who from what little we can gather made it a point to not be involved with the main characters, lol)

[@Ismatic1906]

The eyes on greed moving is absolutely terrifying. Good work

[@Crystal_Remorhaz]

You know, I'm really liking the political debates at the end! No moderation, blatant government corruption, petty squabbles that destroy any basis for discussion, and only two potential candidates, both of which are almost equally terrible. It's just like real American politics, so relatable!

[@SlapstickGenius23]

😂 True for the majority of less sane nations. That includes most of India (except for the southwest and far northeast, which are trying their best with saner politicians on board).

[@ramenbomberdeluxe4958]

Eh, conservative politicians are generally the worse choice, the only difference is that in America, both are conservatives, one is just willing to concede inches of actual progress while the other thumps their chest and roars obnoxiously against the very thought of progress.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 India has various political parties of different wings which reluctantly take turns. I’m not going to talk about the BJP much. I think it’s likely because they are the (ultra) conservative Bollywood celebs’ political party of choice.

[@bloodysimile4893]

Ancient Rome senators: You call that a debate?

[@myriad9597]

​@RamenBomberDeluxe What is meant by "progress"?

[@ChristianDall-p2j]

0:39 “the march of the mooks!” Thats a great first…….… letter rhyme!

[@xx_squirtle8621]

I’ve seen an episode of a show where a goon actually succeeds in what he was assigned to, only to bungle it and not escape, making it easy for him to be caught

[@Ded-Nside3825]

I really love the timeline you made of the Imperial Trooper’s gear/recruit quality degrading over time as they rack up more losses.

[@videakias3000]

in super hero stories, the rules about guns are these: does the hero have a way to deal with the bullets?(like bulletproof body or a forcefield?) if yes then the bad guys can shoot the hero to their hearts contain. if not then they either don't use guns at all or their aiming is so bad that they hit anything but the target.

[@Aredel]

Or they run straight at the hero, practically nose-to-nose with them before they even consider firing their weapon.

[@TheCrimsonElite666]

I think of Benny from the Thief franchise when it comes to a stupid lackey done right. The game portrays him as an utterly incompetent guard, but his dialogue is done in a way that makes him such a lovable oaf, especially in The Metal Age. It helps that you're discouraged from killing humans in the game, and getting spotted by almost any guard is dangerous since you're a thief not a warrior. The guards in general have so much character through their dialogue, but Benny stands out the most.

[@geoffreywilson7008]

There's also the implication that Benny wasn't always like this, and Garret's proficiency as a thief has worn him down into a drunken shell. Who wouldn't turn to drink after the dozenth time you could do nothing to stop the master thief, who KEEPS picking the establishment you just got hired at as a mark, getting you canned 'again'.

[@Thescott16]

The shade being thrown at the formulaic, mediocre anime that have been pumped out en-masse the last few years is very welcome.

[@lazydelibird]

I like the consistency of inner critic's 76 hour review on star stars being used in 7:53

[@RacingSnails64]

" *A basic flanking maneuvere* " got me more than it should've. "A writer's love will show through their work, and their neglect." OH GOSH THAT ONE JUST HURTS, TOO TRUE LMAO.

[@ajardoor]

One of my favourite bits in Metal Gear Solid 3 is the sequence where you have to take out a squad of elites (I believe this is just before the cutscene where Ocelot enters the story and the elite squad is his own personal unit). The elites use actual sweep and clear tactics, even throwing in grenades into a room where they think you’re hiding. They have a guy on the roof as overwatch, they work in pairs, they patrol pretty competently. And credit where it’s due, the Batman Arkham games did make sure the Mooks (despite clearly being common variety street crooks in most cases) actually use escalating tactics in response to Batman beating them as each game and the series goes on. They start forming up into pairs if you take out enough of them, they get better weapons and gadgets (shields, knives, heartbeat monitors, blowing up gargoyles, snipers, detective mode scanners, radar jammers, heavy machine guns, medics, electro-shields, land mines) to use against you, they start moving out in bigger numbers, etc. The titular Arkham Knight even has his gimmick as “actually informs the Mooks what to do to foil your tactics in real time.” Writers and game designers, learn from this.

[@TheEvilpossum]

A fantasy movie that did goons pretty well is Krull. The guys in the suits were clearly struggling to move, but the result was storyboarding and choreography that emphasized them appearing in unexpected places to ambush or cut off the heroes. Plus, their boss actually keeps track of the good guys well enough to stop almost all their plans.

[@wahoobidy4912]

11:53 I'd like to give my interpretation of dehumanized characters. Sometimes, it's simply fun to watch the very evil villain caring for no one but themselves and there own selfish desires. It also can give a very satisfying end where the villains view on themselves or something are challenged and are forced to face there own inter flaws and imperfection. I think overly sarcastic production gave a good explanation of what makes those characters memorable. You should do a video with them tbh, could be a fun colab between the 2 of you.

[@leolightfellow]

I second this. I love both channels too.

[@shrekatemyonions]

The bit where he talks about the various tactics minions could use to become a formidable threat (specifically retreating and regrouping) reminds me of how bandits in Skyrim will straight up shout “We are routed, fall back!” when about to die. To which, of course, the other bandits will charge in and suffer the same fate

[@karlgrimm3027]

The 1990 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie put a surprising amount of thought into there lackeys recruitment, some even have a character arc.

[@ramenbomberdeluxe4958]

Awaken, dearest! A new round of awful literary assistance is out!

[@Peteman]

The sad thing is that recent events have convinced me it's not unrealistic for generic enemy mooks to be pointlessly cruel and stupid and that people really will loyally serve an asshole who will throw them under the bus the moment they lose their utility or just tell them stuff they don't want to hear probably because they think they are a cut above the other losers who failed the boss. Or to quote OSP's Trope Talk: Cursed Artifacts: n+1: "RIP to the last [n] guys but I'm different!"

[@RIlianP]

My favorite part is when a hero's relative, lets say a sister or mother, gets harassed by some mooks in chapter one, the hero defats them (power of chosen one and plot armor) with some added attempts for a tension, but the hero does not finish off the bad guys and lets them escape, because being noble goes hand in hand with being stupid. The the hero goes on a journey leaving his sister/mom/love interest (or all three at once, depending on how isolated is the village) in the same place, without any attempt to conceal or hide her or even leaving enough food for her to last the winter (she is ademsel in distress, she doesn't have the right of independent thought). And in the end of the journey when he is back from defeating the BBEG against all odds, she is still there unmolested and not starving, sucked on rock or something , because the mooks did not have enough brain cells to check on her so they can get their revenge, peak shounen manga writing right there.

[@maglev0789]

I'm not entirely sure if they qualify as "lackeys" so-to-speak but the hyenas from The Lion King are a great example of an antagonist group done right.

[@tskmaster3837]

Not the same as "Being Evil to Lackeys".... which seems to be OK from both sides. "You have outlived your usefulness" meets "disposable faceless mook army". And the name of that character is.... Captain Phasma.

[@Harmonica821]

I like how JP still didn't drop his gripe with the shield hero being a slave owner and no one seems to have a problem with it lol

[@92JazzQueen]

I think it's annoying

[@MathematicalVoid]

The funny thing is, Mario, of all things, does a pretty good job of avoiding some of these problems. Though, granted, a lot of them are avoided because "game design," like whether or not elite minions are more of a threat, or because there's usually not enough plot to have the problem in the first place, like heroes torturing them. But Bowser usually cares enough for his troops to make it believable that they would be loyal to him, even forgiving three for betraying him to another bad guy in Bowser's Inside Story, since he had reason to believe that they might've been mind controlled, and in Super Paper Mario, Count Bleck treats his minions like family. And there've been plenty of moments where minions are given humanizing moments, like the cafes in Origami King, or the original Paper Mario having some of them run a game show after Chapter 5, which Bowser learns about once it's over and is more disappointed he didn't get to be a contestant than anything. EDIT: Oh, mostly dang! I forgot about that one Shy Guy in Color Splash who talks about the life of a lackey!

[@kaiosamatlj4031]

I would say that Legend of the Seven Stars was the game that started this. Being a JRPG it was the first time we've see the minions and Bowser have dialogue, and the fact that the plot involved Bowser losing his castle to another villain does help a little bit. And in one moment of the game we do meet some ex-minions of his army that decided to leave for their own reasons and he's not pissed about it.

[@saphiriathebluedragonknight375]

I love Bowser more than any other Mario character. He's a good dad, and generally fair to his minions. Why is he that bad guy again? Peach should just marry him, and end the war between their kingdoms. Not like she's marrying Mario anytime soon.

[@spindash64]

On the flip side, I love when the red shirts on the friendly side AREN’T red shirts just there to die or to need help. Farmer Jenkins isn’t gonna just sit there and let you have _all_ the fun saving his cows from UFOs when he still has Grandpappy’s old Bazooka

[@deltarno7502]

Aang being worried about the one episode archers made me giggle. Followed by "Batman villains have many weaknesses, but their HR department is not one of them."

[@presidentofthegalaxy3642]

To be fair, there are real life examples of the "killing minions due to failure" thing. Shaka Zulu would have entire armies slaughtered upon their defeat (alongside their parents, Spouses and children) though it should be noted he was a egomaniac who was wildly incompetent in manners outside of military ones

[@SlapstickGenius23]

Didn’t you mention that Shaka Zulu was a serial offender in terms of having mates? He mated not only upon one night stands, but also upon anything that moves, that’s why.

[@Dr_zevia]

And remember, never try to look into why the villain has managed to acquire so many lackeys and their personal reasons for joining his evil army, such as maybe they didn’t want to but poverty (which may have been caused by the villain themself) forced them into taking any opportunity they could. And definitely don’t use the methods that the villain uses to recruit lackeys as a way to show the cruelty of their regime.

[@eeg-rh7jv]

And make sure that the Vilain's army which is driven by fear is somehow an hyper competent force who has defeated all of its enemies besides the protagonist because fear is the best motivator even if realistically it would lead to an army of backstabbers that won't hesitate to switch side if they're losing.

[@borekminer]

if the minions actually were as capable as a real life force than that would add so much tension,like id be FEARING about the hero if a lore accurate elite guard force of an evil dictator that owns the galaxy just APPEARED out of nowhere

[@Csp499]

11:45 Basically a more succinct, less sweary version of what comes through my head when I hear the bleating of "stop trying to humanize your villains!".

[@Starsmasher287]

0:34 Damn! Dark lord must have watched your episode on reboots cause he got a glow up!

[@aokhoinguyenang3992]

In Space Battleship Yamato 2199, after the heroes destroyed the space gate system that the Garmillar empire used(prevent troops from quickly reinforce their homeworld), the empire had to use cadets & retired soldiers to bolster their defence

[@petrairene]

Hey, JP, you could do a video about assassins, particularly girl assassins. Kickass princesses would also be great, as well as dragon riders, farmboy with a secret past and thieves guilds. Tons of awful clichee material to be found there.