Tesla 12V Battery Dead Again

Well, the 12V battery in my Model S needed to be replaced again, but it took nearly 3 weeks this time because Tesla didn't have any batteries. Also, there's a new 12V battery available for the older Model S & it requires a software configuration change as part of installation. While I'm at it, I also cover some Tesla 12V system basics.
Resources:
My Twitter thread about this issue (with part numbers): PT...
How to take apart a pre-refresh Model S frunk: • Quick DIY: How To Disa...
How to take apart a refreshed Model S frunk: • Take Apart Tesla Model...
How to take apart a Model 3 frunk: • What's Under The Model...
Model 3 rear bench removal: • Tesla Model 3 Rear Ben...
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Disclosure: The creator of this video is a Tesla owner and is long $TSLA.

[@floridagarye9288]

Best explanation I’ve heard about the 12v and battery pack. Well done.

[@derkogen3290]

axaxaxaxa all wrong

[@Mike-kr5dn]

@@derkogen3290 axaxaxa? Are you russian?

[@mediaaccount167]

Tesla really needs to improve service and MOST IMPORTANTLY HIRE HUMANS to answer service phone calls.

[@derkogen3290]

xa xax a xa x ax a no

[@wjun0131]

Their margins too tight, they are still losing money.

[@wjun0131]

@DrgnFlys opportunity cost

[@Xanthopteryx]

@DrgnFlys That was only because they sold emission rights. On a yearly basis, there are only losses.

[@DDumbrille]

What large company -- let alone small one -- hires HUMANS to answer phones? What is this...1977?

[@kemchobhenchod]

It is so cathartic to see someone voicing the severe issues I've had with Tesla service over time. Please keep sharing your experience, it's so important.

[@lizmasi9918]

Man, this makes me not want to buy a Tesla until this get straightened out.

[@oisiaa]

Nah, Tesla is totally worth it. Remember, you don't have the other maintenance of a normal car. The Model 3 and Y are better about this too.

[@gwarlow]

Liz Masi Were you about to purchase one just before you saw this video? Which model were you going to buy?

[@lizmasi9918]

@@gwarlow actually if I were to buy a Tesla it would be the house glass solar system and powerwall. Then a SUV style car with a 400 mile range.

[@lizmasi9918]

@DrgnFlys well, I have a Ford hybrid now and hopefully when it goes belly up tesla will have what I want. But in the meantime I just bought the stock.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

oisiaa And if parts fail under warranty you have to deal with Tesla service. Just watched a video where Tesla charged a customer for their tow truck driver damaging his car. The car was 4 months old. It seems common if anything goes wrong you’ll lose your car for a undetermined time.

[@hcw0818]

This information about how 12V battery is being used by the car is very helpful. Thanks! Tesla's service still sucks and the worst part is usually the communications. Being able to schedule an appointment in the Tesla app is quite convenient, but having to communicate over texts only for the rest the service when they only reach out to you or reply your texts one day before the appointment definitely causes customers a lot of inconvenience, especially when loaners are no longer provided and Uber can't work for your transportation needs.

[@Carras02]

it's 2.5 years later and I just had a similar experience... I received 3 erros one morning and was able to make a same-day appointment at the closest service center - I was off to a great start. I went to my appointment and after waiting and waiting (and taking time off work) the service guy tells me they didn't have any in stock and they are on back order. He directed me to a roadside vendor which had the battery, and installed it. All said and done, I lost a few PTO hours and a few hours of my life which could have been avoided. I snagged my M3 in 2019 and had no clue the 12V was something I would need to replace in a few years. Tesla should really sell/ship these batteries directly. It's so easy to replace.

[@patriciacorahharter5447]

Come on Elon, this can't be more difficult than relanding a rocket. FIX IT.

[@derkogen3290]

axaxaxaxaxaxa no

[@zeeryos102]

Awesome! You've answered many questions I have been looking for. :). Much appreciated Alex!

[@sarevok6]

I was in the middle of a road trip to northern MI in Hiawatha last weekend when the notification came on and ordered the Ohmmu battery. Yesterday my neighbor helped me swap them out, but I was close to having a panic attack with how difficult it was lol. And the entire front of the car was spread around on the driveway the whole time. It also took a huge hillbilly to pull it out of the crevice it's in. I'm glad it's over and curious to see how long the lithium phosphate battery lasts.

[@martialman.4563]

I'm dealing with Teslas poor service now, for the 8th time, on a car less than 2 years old.

[@donmago]

Thanks for the great explanation. I have a 2020 Model 3 this helped me, too. My 12v battery failed in South Florida sun at 2 yr 3 mos. Tried using Tesla App to schedule 12v battery service. App was a pain and didn't get the job done. Need App to directly list 12v battery, not main power batteries. Called local Tesla Service Center, rep asked me to bring in. Was at Service Center in ten minutes, Rep had battery ready and changed it in less than 15 minutes. Rep also recalibrated window position, a must do whenever disconneting main and 12v power. All under warranty and all ok in a flash.

[@WanderlustWonderscape]

My car bricked itself. When I used to app to make an appointment, I then discovered the four warnings about the low voltage battery that happened two days earlier. I had two days warning, and I didn't even see the warnings until I tried to get into the car and it was dead. The car and battery are four years old. Strangely, I can honk the horn, flash the lights, and vent only the two right side windows using the app (Model 3 DC converter always active). I was able to then open the right side door by poking a stick through the partially open window to hit the button. The left side doors are completely dead. The car and computer are non responsive. Fun stuff.

[@markusstrobl1067]

Good video. A small point: AFAIK Tesla has never used AGM batteries, they have always been flooded. Also, A few years ago I started using a battery tender on my Model S when parked in the garage. Remains to be seen if it extends the life of the 12V but in theory it should.

[@AlexVenz]

The C&D Technologies DCS-33UNCR and its AtlasBX replacement are both AGM batteries. It's in the spec sheet of the C&D Tech battery & written right on top of its AtlasBX replacement.

[@markusstrobl1067]

@@AlexVenz I have the C&D and thought AGM wouldn't have the fill openings/covers, but you're right. I found the C&D DCS+ spec sheet and it does indeed state it's AGM. My battery tender has a special mode for AGM so I've switched it over. Thanks.

[@macgreiner]

Super helpful video Alex.

[@Teslastorymma]

Epic info. Loved it. That explains why my battery since purchasing my M3P in 4/2019, hasn’t died and I haven’t gotten any messages and everything seems ok.

[@jamesyoung8797]

With Tesla I quickly learned to forget making phone calls, either use my app to schedule a mobile service if not an emergence, or use the app to call roadside assistance. I don't use any other communication options.

[@martialman.4563]

I have had good luck with emails to parts department.

[@sarevok6]

@@martialman.4563 how did you get their email address?

[@martialman.4563]

@@sarevok6 Tesla website.

[@hotdog5966]

what can I do to extend the life of the 12volt battery on our X ? 2020 X 28000 miles parked in garage not driven much but tomorrow will be the third battery, original lasted 2 years last two only last approx 365 days. can I shut something off when its parked?

[@aussie2uGA]

I'm sure when Tesla was deciding on which deep cycle battery to use, the guy who said "one like a golf cart!", is no longer working there.

[@gwarlow]

Aussie2u Yes. What was that guy's name again? It was in their last shareholder's report. I've misplaced my copy. Could you look it up please. Thanks in advance.

[@pippipster6767]

So will the car drive for quite a few weeks then with this replace the battery warning?

[@xeniavader]

Great video.... EXACT thing happened to me. I had to trickle charge the 12volt for 2 weeks. Car wouldn't drive until I charged it.

[@j.d.mcginn6946]

why isn't the 12 volt battery kept charged by the 100 kwh big one?

[@grayman4587]

This is odd. There are tons of deep cycle batteries (basically the same size) that have 90-105 amp hours

[@Superdupershaun]

The issue is they do not communicate with Tesla's computer system.

[@rapierville]

@@Superdupershaun maybe you could elaborate - is there an electronic comm outside of the 12 V? What function does it perform?

[@TRYtoHELPyou]

Service appt tomorrow for a door handle. We shall see how that goes. Should I tell them rain leaked thru the other day from the roof? Perhaps one thing at a time :/

[@AlexVenz]

It's probably worth mentioning...

[@avesraggiana]

No, no, no. TELL THEM. They will list any and every concern that you bring up at your appointment. They'll fix what they can while they have your car. If they cannot fix your other gripes within the same service appointment, they will address them on a subsequent visit, probably when the required part comes in.

[@mts982]

Should tesla have a 2nd 12v installed in their cars or better yet, have solar like the polestar to keep battery charged?

[@carholic-sz3qv]

or a solar panel to cool the car and charge the 12v battery during parking in sommer

[@marcel151]

Le Chat Botté Cooling an EV with Solar Power? Why? Solar panels on a car don‘t deliver enough power for AC. You will only have a fan that blows. Just use it for charging the 12V and/or HV-Battery.

[@carholic-sz3qv]

@@marcel151 yes the fans can cool the car and thats whyt toyota has been doing on the prius prime a decade

[@marcel151]

Le Chat Botté Did I say that? I said that AC isn‘t used. That‘s what matters here. I used to have an Audi A6 C5 with solar roof, just the fans are used. Useless when you have 30 degrees C outside.

[@mohomedmihaz1279]

Hi great video helpful👍 I just want know about Tesla model 3 after replacing pyro fuse still gear liver is not responding is there any program has to be run ???

[@BananeDollar]

How did you leran all this stuff. trial and error? I can't realy beleve that Tesla is providing some sort of manual for these type of repairs or disassemblies.

[@dilloncassell]

Would a trickle charger help with the longevity of the battery in time periods where the car won’t be driven for extended periods of time?

[@67daltonknox]

The HV keeps it charged.

[@davidlemieux2606]

Great summary - I'm really enjoying your videos. I just pulled apart my frunk in my 2017 MS to check the suspension air lines for a possible leak (no luck though, which means I'll be replacing my front air springs). While in there, I noticed my 12v battery is what you described as the old type (black box, red top, etc.). It also had as much dust and dirt on it as the rest of the frunk and even had a sticker on it with my car's VIN code (both written out and qr-code). I take this as an indication that it's likely the original battery, but wanted to get your thoughts on that. I can't imagine a replacement battery, even one installed by Tesla, would have a sticker like that on it. My car is nearly six years old and has 174,000kns.

[@hajaralial-mousawi9864]

Hi... thanks for the video...and I have Tesla model s..My question is..How to charge the 12V.battery? I mean in which way you can keep it charged? If I put the charger cable in the car all the time .it will help or not? Thanks 😊 My regards Ali from Norway

[@SirHackaL0t.]

But why are the batteries dying so quickly? My last car was a BMW 320D which did start/stop for 8 years and was still on the same battery when I sold it.

[@johnhulen1877]

On a Tesla model S, is the 12 Volt DC to DC converter separate from the battery charger? Or does the 12V output voltage of the DC to DC converter vary with the state of the battery, and the charging algorithm?

[@dogphlap6749]

+Alex Venz I've just replaced my 12V battery, the car is 4 years and 4 months old so I figure the battery had to be at least 4.5 years old. I put a 12V 40Ah LiFePO4 battery in there. 3 weeks later the car is still running, it has not caught fire and the DC to DC converter is still functional. This is a science experiment. Prior to replacing the battery I had some weird stuff happening e.g. trying to start the car after it sitting plugged in overnight in my garage it might take 20 seconds or so after stepping on the brake pedal for the 'P' to appear in the driver display. I thought it was the beginnings of the eMMC failure I have read so much about but that problem has not re-occurred since I replaced the 12V battery. Is it conceivable the temporary failure to bring up the driver display 'P' or neither display or select 'D', 'N' or 'R' was a symptom of a failing 12V battery ?

[@vax31j]

My Chevy Volt battery died and I got multiple failure errors. Right now I have the same issues as you with my 2018 M3. I too am embarking on a 12V 50Ah LiFePO4 battery experiment. I hope yours was successful.

[@dogphlap6749]

@@vax31j That Li-ion battery has been in for about 3 years I guess, zero problems so far.

[@phyllisp3780]

You mentioned the model 3 does not require the 12v to be connected to function. When my 12v failed, I had multiple malfunctions and my car barely made it home (door locks, windows, and over power up). Shouldn't the DC DC converter have maintained enough voltage for the car to run properly? Also, after switching to a Ohmmu lithium 12v battery, the car functioned well for only 7 months and then the change 12V battery indicator has appeared.

[@AlexVenz]

Correct, not everything works when the Model 3's 12V battery fails and it's operating only on the DC-DC converter. Why did Tesla do this? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Dunno. As for the aftermarket Li-ion battery, the car's software is configured for the AtlasBX battery and the aftermarket battery's internal BMS is basically having to act as an intermediary between its battery and the car... weird things could happen, depending on what Tesla does to their software. I'd suggest checking with Ohmmu since they have a pretty good warranty.

[@jeffbosio]

Great video. If I am sitting in my model Y watching my sons soccer practice,watching you tube - is that using the 12V ? I’ve been turning on the AC thinking it would draw from the high voltage battery. Thanks !

[@Tom55data]

As long as as the car is working as intended, and the 12V battery is OK, and the DC to DC converter is working you are effectively running AC from the traction battery - since the car keeps charging the 12V battery - the 12V battery just becomes a component that can maintain any current required - while the DC-DC charging system is a single power source that works intermittently as the same power.

[@stephenodysseas6739]

I'm about to replace my model S refresh battery and wondering if I can connect both batteries as the old one still has life in it and can hopefully add longevity to the new battery ? Do I just connect a positive and a neutral wire between the 2 batteries terminals ? Thanks in advance

[@AlexVenz]

Logistics of properly and safely securing a second 12V battery, running wires, etc. aside, I do not recommend doing this. Not only is there little point in tying a failing battery to a good one, Tesla actually has charging profiles in their software specific to the 12V batteries they use.

[@stephenodysseas6739]

@@AlexVenz makes sense thanks again for the quick reply your videos are very informative

[@Hogger280]

Sounds like the DC/DC 12V batt management software is cycling the battery too deeply. A 12V batt. in an ICE typically lasts 4 to 6 years and if the tesla kept its 12V batt charged up better it would last much longer too,

[@Tom55data]

Thank you, great informative video Please allow me to add a more general comment to put this in context. All cars (ICE cars included) except very old ones, will discharge their 12V battery when the car is off as they have security systems that run all the time. Since ICE cars are running deep cycle discharge on a high-crank current battery if left a long time - it really does ruin the battery. The AA/AAA are having many call outs with cars not starting as they have sat around a long time during covid-19. The Tesla is at least easier to change the 12V battery and it is still a DIY option and it does not throw a complete tantrum when disconnected like some more recent EV cars - but the 12V battery is weak component in all cars. Many recent EV's that have come onto the market cannot boot from scratch properly if they 12V battery is disconnected even for a fraction of a second, and you would be unwise to DIY this without a second battery or regulated power supply to maintain the power. EV's manufactures are using a cheap 12V battery as a stable source of low voltage power cos it is easy and these batteries are robust under different load conditions, but don't have a good lifetime.

[@AbJsm]

How frequently the 12v battery for tesla model 3 has to be replaced ?

[@AlexVenz]

Unknown at this point, but it shouldn't be as bad as the older Model S due to the differences mentioned in the video.

[@MattLesak]

It’s funny how 12v batteries give several EVs problems. Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt and Volts, Tesla, etc. There has to be a better way. I’m curious as why Tesla hasn’t used a 12V capacitor based solution since it can keep the 12V charged even with the car being “off”?

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

Matt Lesak A while ago Elon said that the Model Y won’t have a 12 volt battery, but we’ll have to wait and see. It’s supposed to have a lot less wiring, too.

[@MattLesak]

Mitchell Barnow true. I recall that now. I’m assuming they figured this out.

[@AlexVenz]

A cap large enough to keep the 12V battery topped up and prevent cycling may as well replace the 12V battery. Remember, a Model S can cycle its 30Ah 12V battery multiple times per day just sitting idle.

[@MattLesak]

Alex Venz there’s a video (I’ll try to find it) of a guy who made a battery combination of 12V 10ah LiFePO4 and 12V super caps for his ICE vehicle. It worked great. What it showed me is there’s a better way to solve this for all vehicles. The insanity of still using Pb batteries on cars, let alone EVs, is maddening.

[@MattLesak]

Here’s the playlist. kzbin.info/aero/PLZh_n9jIHntssGtG4j5yMrm4NPTZVS_iH

[@arisnavarro]

I have a 2021 model Y LR. Does anybody know whether a portable jump starter will work to jump start the electronics system if the 12 volt battery dies on me? My scenario is that I'm on a road trip somewhere, the car is parked in a secluded place where I don't have cellphone service and the 12 volt battery dies. The car goes to sleep eventually and so my electronic locks are nonfunctional. I would then have to pop open my frunk with an A23 12 VOLT battery from the access panel in my tow hook. Now, since my DC to DC converter went to sleep and the 12 volt battery is dead, can I use a 12 volt lithium jump starter to wake up the computer and essentially wake up the DC to DC converter and ultimately be able to put the car in drive to be able to drive home or to the nearest service center to get the 12 volt battery replaced? I'm just trying to be prepared so I don't get stranded somewhere.

[@iPhil77]

Is the M3 12v battery end-user replacement or its a mobile service replacement only?

[@AlexVenz]

Like the Model S, the Model 3's 12V battery is user replaceable but you're still stuck buying the battery from Tesla (unless you're going aftermarket LiFePO4). The software configuration shouldn't need to be changed unless Tesla gives you a different battery than what was previously in the Model 3.

[@rickduva]

My 3 was replaced under warranty with a Hankook and no software needed.

[@kardy12]

Thanks, that was very informative - haven’t had this problem so far, but I’ll definitely save a link to your videos on how to replace it! Does the high voltage system get disconnected also when sentry mode is running?

[@AlexVenz]

Off the top of my head, I'm not sure about the status of the main pack while running sentry mode in the Model S. My S is a Hardware 1 car, so I can't test that myself.

[@aaronwadzinski5761]

I found out how NOT FUN it is to get to the battery in my newly-acquired 2014 model s 60 (single motor variant) ... Quite the nightmare, under the cabin air filter intake under the passenger-side lifting-strut for the frunk hood. FML.

[@AlexVenz]

@@aaronwadzinski5761 Oh, yeah... The older RWD model is a real pain when it comes to 12V replacement. The dual motor Model S is way easier.

[@av8rshane491]

My 2018 model 3 original battery lasted 2 1/2 years before I got the replace 12 volt battery message. I opted for a LiFePO4 battery from Ohmmu after reading review and everyone said they were lasting longer. It was over double the price of the Tesla battery. 15 months went by and back came the replace 12 v battery message. Contacted customer support at Ohmmu and they said it was a compatibility issue with software and asked that I charge it. It wouldn’t take a charge from my battery minder. They said I needed to charge it with a 0-30volt 5 amp adjustable power supple that allows you to set voltage and amperage. Most people don’t have those in their garage but I have a hobby flying Electric RC airplanes so it wasn’t a problem and I charged it back up and reinstalled in my wife’s car. 2 days later message came back. Ohmmu replaced the battery after that and no problem so far. They had a petition on the website to ask Tesla to address the problem with software and if owners filled it out they were going to submit to Tesla. I really don’t like having doubts about the battery when it’s my wife driving it so I think if I were to do this over I would have stuck with the OEM replacement. Other than the 12 volt battery problem the car has been perfect for 4 years and over 100k miles. Wife loves the car.

[@jamesvalenza9333]

OK I am working on a 2021 Model 3 for police use, I need to power the emergency equipment (lighting, radio, siren, mobile data computer) is there a current draw rating on the 12v battery under the Frunk? I would think that the police equipment load would be around 30a, Is there a better place in the car to obtain this load? we also know TESLA does not recommend wiring into the battery but looks like police TESLA's are becoming a reality in Law Enforcement.

[@AlexVenz]

There is a limit to how much extra load you can apply at the 12V battery connection before the car starts throwing errors and getting generally unhappy with you, I just don't recall what that limit is off the top of my head. It's also possible to circumvent this by connecting directly to the DC-DC converter that supplies 12V to the car from the high voltage battery, but this approach has its own considerations. Given my unfamiliarity with the specifics of police equipment, I'd advise either reaching out to Tesla directly or to one of the police departments who have already successfully integrated their equipment into Tesla vehicles.

[@jamesvalenza9333]

@@AlexVenz I tried reaching out to the up fitters that other departments used to install them and they will not give any info as they are doing, and try getting any help from TESLA is not working, so to understand, on a Model 3 the 12v battery as long as the traction battery is good will always be charging from the DC to DC converter?

[@AlexVenz]

@@jamesvalenza9333 The traction battery maintains the 12V battery charge via a DC-DC converter, correct. When the car is active, the process is mostly continuous. When the car is in a sleep state, loads drain the 12V battery and the DC-DC converter is engaged as needed to recharge the 12V battery.

[@jamesvalenza9333]

@@AlexVenz Thanks makes sense, So the positive cable at the battery is run to the terminal under the rear passenger seat, so we could possibly use (12v with inline fuse) 12v from that terminal to run and power rear mounted squad radio?

[@AlexVenz]

@@jamesvalenza9333 That approach would save you a wire run from the front to the back, yes.

[@peteroffpist1621]

If you drive every day and exercise the 12 volt battery you can easily get 5 years out of it. If you leave it for a week or more you can run into problems. So if possible let someone drive it while you are away.

[@AlexVenz]

That may be the case for ICE cars, but not Tesla.

[@DavidDrivesElectric]

Yes it is impossible to get those batteries from anyone but Tesla. I tried. My 12 Volt battery never had issues. It lasted 4 years and only died because I messed it up (don't ask how). I believe the old cars and old DCDC converters work great and keep the battery healthy. I believe when they changed to the new DCDC converter they messed something up which causes so many of the 12 Volt batteries to die. There was also an issue in the early years when Tesla got bad quality batteries from their supplier and that caused a lot of dead ones.

[@AlexVenz]

You know I'm going to ask about that battery story at some point... 😉

[@DavidDrivesElectric]

@@AlexVenz I hooked up a 12 Volt inverter to my car and put a 650 Watt load on it. After 10 hours or so the fuse blew, 12 Volt battery got drained to 0 and the car would not even allow me to charge it! I had it towed to the service center. Lesson learned.

[@AlexVenz]

Oh, yeah, that'll do it...

[@michaelvan9659]

Down the Tesla!

[@g00glechr0me8]

The 12 volt battery should charge when the car is plugged in and/or "running/driving"....there's no reason it shouldn't stay charged up and last for many years....something seems wrong.

[@bigdougscommentary5719]

27K miles on both Model 3’s and no 12V problems. There are replacement batteries for the Model 3 all over the internet. You can even get a lithium replacement from Ohmmu if that strikes you. None of this is rocket science. His first battery lasted 3 years, pretty normal for car batteries in general.

[@AlexVenz]

As discussed in the video, I don't expect the Model 3 to have the same 12V battery issues as my old Model S due to significant differences in the 12V systems and the way they operate. My original Model S 12V battery lasting almost 3 years seems like somewhat of an outlier, given that it was one of the notorious red batteries (many owners were having to replace those annually). The second battery was the newer red top/black bottom C&D Tech battery, which was supposed to be an improvement but only lasted 15 months. 12V batteries appropriate for my Model S aren't easy to come by without resorting to buying through Tesla or opting for an aftermarket LiFePO4 battery.

[@sarevok6]

I just bought the Ohmmu, hoping it lasts longer than the last one.

[@Anthony__420]

I replaced my Lead acid with the Ohmmu in July. Then in October I started getting warning alerts again for low voltage. Tesbroes we’re great and sent me a new one and now no issues

[@jwbjpb1338]

My Tesla 3 12 V battery just died...died...died...had to be towed to the dealership. 24 hours later? Still without my car. Two issues - 12 V battery should be better and Tesla service needs to improve.

[@fngcobo9278]

Was your car sorted? And how much did Tesla charge for new battery? My car got towed away last week, and I’m still waiting for my car to be fixed.😢

[@jwbjpb1338]

@@fngcobo9278 I sold my Tesla. Issues galore and I sold it

[@jwbjpb1338]

@@fngcobo9278 I can’t recall the cost of the new battery but mi replaced the tires too often too

[@AbJsm]

how long does 12V battery take to replace for tesla model 3?

[@AlexVenz]

I show the Model 3's 12V battery toward the end of the video and there's a link in the description to my video about taking the 3's frunk apart. It's actually a faster and easier process in the Model 3 than the Model S.

[@AbJsm]

@@AlexVenz I mean do I have to replace the 12 battery every 2 years

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

Alex Venz I hope that the Model 3’s 12 volt battery will last longer due to the DC to DC converter location? What is your opinion about the Battle Born or other lithium 12 volt replacement batteries and wouldn’t the computer need programming so that they’ll work properly? Thank you so much, Alex! Another awesome video!

[@AlexVenz]

The Model 3 hasn't really been out in quantity long enough to have good feel for 12V battery life but I suspect it should fare better than the Model S. I haven't heard of many needing 12V battery replacement thus far, but it'll take at least another year or so to know.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

Alex Venz It seems like the Model 3’s been out for a long time because we heard about it forever and there are 100’s of thousands of them out in the world.

[@parthasarathyvenkatadri]

Couldnt tesla have a isolated set of li-ion cells within the battery to take care of the 12 v supply ... that way it would last much longer...

[@AscendedSaiyan3]

Ohmuu battery, for Tesla, would keep everything going smoothly.

[@GaryKettwig]

Agree, we use one in our MX. Lights are brighter, music is fuller....

[@67daltonknox]

Does it void the warranty?

[@GaryKettwig]

@@67daltonknox , not in calif. You are able to use aftermarket items without voiding warranty www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a15840066/not-all-aftermarket-parts-will-void-your-warranty/

[@AscendedSaiyan3]

@@67daltonknox No, it does not void the warranty.

[@toddschroeder8971]

such a great video!

[@mts982]

Maybe when you go on vacation, keep a battery conditioner on the battery.

[@Neojhun]

Or J1772 protocol based charger incl Tesla need a low power mode for trickle charging.

[@epigeneticnerd4244]

My car just started notifying me of the 12v issue yesterday and it's already having issues rolling up windows, brakes, no cruise control, reverse cam doesn't work. It's a mess. The windows aren't even sufficiently rolling down upon opening the door. So it's rubbing against the window trim... This is my only car! Does anyone know how hard it is on the car or main battery to run it with a dying 12V?

[@stevhn]

4.5 years on my Model X and my card completely died needing a 12 volt battery replacement for the 3rd time. Can’t even get into the car

[@ne0nZchr0me]

Do all tesla models have this??

[@AlexVenz]

Like I said in the video, all Teslas have 12V batteries, but short 12V battery life isn't limited to just Tesla's EVs. That said, it may not be as much of an issue in the Model 3 (or, presumably, the upcoming Model Y) due to design differences in the 12V system.

[@neliosamch3195]

All new Tesla charge the 12 v battery after the voltage drop below 12 volts.

[@AlexVenz]

12.1V is about 50% SoC in a typical six cell AGM battery, so, uh, I sure hope it would charge. I think what you're trying to describe is what I was covering in the video about the Model 3 keeping its DC-DC converter running and likely reducing the cycling of the 12V battery, which should improve its lifespan.

[@neliosamch3195]

@@AlexVenz Yes, I saw your video. Very informative. I still have original 35amp 8 year old battery but I have a 35 watts solar panel and a 10amp controller that keeps the battery at 14.2 v during the day. Yes my ev is that old and the drive battery is about 90% capacity.

[@brittanyb.6976]

Mine is saying needs replaced but I just got my car in dec .. :/

[@sarevok6]

I hope they replaced it under warranty for you. 7 months seems crazy

[@ItsBinhRepaired]

Old navy active, the poor man's Tesla clothes. Lol jk I wear it too. XD

[@AlexVenz]

It's comfortable...

[@ItsBinhRepaired]

@@AlexVenz haha I know :P I was just messing with you.

[@nigelweir3852]

Tesla seems to use a lot of energy when not going anywhere , cycling through both the 12volt and traction battery much quicker than many other simpler ev’s , new battery 12 volt after 3 years ok , 1 year ridiculous, why can it not all be switched off by the user , is this just to keep the traction battery at optimum temperature for charging but reducing its longevity, big battery not a problem small battery significance greater

[@AlexVenz]

The high idle consumption mostly comes from running the car's computer systems and cellular communications (keeping the car awake for somewhat quick app access, proximity key detection on approach, downloading software updates, etc.), but the coolant pumps also contribute some. Activating newer features like sentry mode significantly increases idle power (Autopilot computer spools up for vision processing and, presumably, monitoring of the ultrasonic sensors). Users can reduce idle power by disabling features that allow for more rapid app access (or by completely disabling remote access) and there is an option to manually shut the car down, but all of these things reduce convenience and usability. The impact on the traction battery due to the idle power consumption is negligible from an overall battery longevity/health standpoint.

[@realbillwhite]

Gee, maybe there's a reason that Tesla directs you to the App. Perhaps it's the most efficient method of communication with the company. It's just a shot in the dark, but I figure that may have something to do with it.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

Bill White That doesn’t seem very efficient when they forget who you are and have to go through the process again.

[@realbillwhite]

@@Robert-cu9bm Stop whining. Tesla is a company growing at fantastic rates due to a superior product. They will experience growing pains. Get over it. It's not an attack against you or your entitlements.

[@sarevok6]

If you've ever used it you'd know it is hardly efficient.

[@Yahgiggle]

The software will most likely be a optimized charging algorithm to prolong the life of the battery, you are way over thinking it, i would buy a 12 volt solar panel for maintaining the charge level and use it when going away, AGM is a dumb technology this would work fine

[@Just-In-Credible]

I just got a battery yesterday. $85, and they had it done in minutes.

[@deltacx1059]

8:19 labor cors for installing a new battery, that's funny.

[@Neojhun]

Flashing a Battery Charger Profile is annoying. It's not a simple plug and play. More like a sketchy trial and error. These are Dumb Batteries with no eletronics BMS, similar to Raw LiPo & 18650 cells. The best way to charge a Deep Cycle AGM is with a programable smart charger that can be fine tuned with a Charging Map Profile. Tesla Ranger needed to flash a New Map for a different type of AGM battery.

[@deltacx1059]

@@Neojhun I know ,it's just something you don't hear about often

[@Robert-cu9bm]

Neojhun Meanwhile the rest of the world using Agm batteries just charge them. And funny they don’t die every year.

[@drdremd]

Lucky you are only 60 miles from service center, I'm 200 miles.

[@AlexVenz]

Ouch... that's a long way to go for parts/service.

[@frederickwalker4450]

So glad I drive a Bolt EV!

[@Sanjay9442]

What AAA takes an hour to do, Tesla promised to do for me in 2 weeks while I had a totally dead car due to totally dead 12 V battery. Tesla did not have the battery in stock. No back up transportation. Will never buy another Tesla again. When I pay $70 K plus for a car, I expect that level of service. Tesla service sucks.

[@DanFrederiksen]

Are you sure it's true that when the car is 'off' that it runs entirely from the lead acid? and only pulse replenishes from the HV pack. Because that would be an unbelievably poor engineering choice, to constantly cycle the lead acid. Tesla cars historically drink a lot of juice when 'off'. I hope the contactors only disconnect the drive electronics and still supply the computers from main pack via DCDC. And further, the lead acid should never have been in any of the cars. You can easily have a 12V aux from a tiny lithium pack and should only ever be used if the main pack fails like in a crash for blinkers and connectivity.

[@AlexVenz]

In the case of my Model S, yes, I'm sure. Tesla went with deep cycle batteries and revised their 12V battery management software multiple times to reduce the impact of the cycling, but it's generally why 12V batteries don't last long in the S. As I mentioned in the video, the Model 3 is different and we have yet to see how well its 12V battery holds up.

[@DanFrederiksen]

@@AlexVenz that is truly unimpressive if that's the case. But it sort of makes sense with the DCDC being put in the pack in model 3. They could just have placed the DCDC right by the HV terminals so there is no significant length of HV wire always live. Cycling through a lead acid, especially considering the extreme vampire drain on S suggests that it was headless chickens designing the car and no one had an overview. How often does it cycle?

[@AlexVenz]

Every engineering decision comes with trades and I'm not going to claim that I know all of the factors that went into this decision for the Model S. That said, they've made significant software improvements over the years to reduce idle load and 12V battery cycling, but it's hard for me to tell exactly the rate of cycling at this point without rigging up some sensors. If I had to guess based on reduction of the high voltage pack's state of charge, maybe a couple cycles per day.

[@DanFrederiksen]

@@AlexVenz do you happen to have a clamp meter? engineering choices are only trade offs when they are optimal. There is such a thing as bad design and Tesla is surprisingly guilty of this in a few areas. Vampire drain and use of large lead acid battery are the most clear cut errors in judgment. Particularly vampire drain has been inexplicably persistent and was a problem from day one of the roadster in 08. Founder Martin Eberhard groused about it when he took delivery of his which is a bit ironic because he was in charge of the car's development. And it's been a big problem ever since. Model S default burns off so much energy sitting still that it takes a 1000 watt solar installation just for the idle. enough to match a short commute worth of travel every day and that's inexcusably poor engineering.

[@AlexVenz]

A short commute of travel every day? On current software, my old Model S only drains in the low single digit RM per day. That should work out to somewhere around 0.87-1.74kWh/day, depending on a few factors. I do have a clamp meter but not one with data logging, which is what I'd need in order to capture this since, presumably, the idle load isn't constant.

[@sriontube]

DC batteries work only in DC and not in LA -- sorry for the poor joke.

[@ManMountainManX]

TY> ..

[@firstname7780]

All premium owners I know, whom care about their cars, use smart trickle chargers for their batteries. A premium German Bosh battery is 300-400USD. Can last 4 years ill maintained, or 10+ maintained. Many car makers deliver the cars with smart chargers. In Tesla's case, it is an unforgivable omission- that 12v should self trickle charge, or charge when plugged inside the wall. given the nature of the car, the system should self trickle charge.... Alas, the other option is wall trickle charging..

[@Xanthopteryx]

Use CTek chargers - they are Awesome!

[@firstname7780]

that is what i use. But would never expect this on a tesla

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@firstname7780 For what i have seen, expect everything with a Tesla.... Battery drain, door handle problems, bugs, rust, bad paint job, bad custom service, ...

[@bigfatbaataed]

Maybe buy a 2nd backup battery when they replace the one in the service call & trickle charge it once a month until you need it...

[@67daltonknox]

Lead acid batteries deteriorate when stored, even with a float charger.

[@sauxsaux9384]

Tesla Supercharge is just a fantasy.

[@sarevok6]

It's a pretty awesome fantasy because I use them all the time

[@brian1nmbsc525]

Man Alex you sure do have a lot of problems with your cars. We have had our M3P 16 months and 30,000 miles...nothing! Have you considered contacting an exorcist? Maybe your house was built on ancient burial grounds or something. LOL

[@AlexVenz]

Pretty much all of the problems have been with the Model S, which kinda makes sense. The Model 3 has been good, aside from the charge port control module that had to be replaced right after delivery & the occasional banging noise with temperature/elevation changes (there's a TSB for the battery case vents that I'll have taken care of whenever the car goes in for its Autopilot computer upgrade).

[@Thomasuki267]

You don't buy a car when you buy a Tesla, you buy a platform for permanent subscription charges. No thanks.

[@oisiaa]

I'm surprised Tesla hasn't gotten together with a lead acid battery manufacturer to develop a "Super deep cycle battery".

[@Robert-cu9bm]

oisiaa Lead acid are crap a deep cycling. Agm is better and LiPo is better again.

[@oisiaa]

@@Robert-cu9bm AGM is lead acid.

[@chasecorpus9181]

lead acid, more like, DEAD acid

[@Chrisb8s]

My 12v battery went out twice in one year. Tesla removed my high voltage battery and checked all those connectors and cleaned them. Since then the 12v battery had been good. Last week I had a freaky alert. In the middle of supercharging (290 miles from home). My car stopped charging and alerts said.”may not start” “top speed limited , no regeneration”.car needs service”. “May not supercharge” I was able to supercharge 80 miles away and made it to the service center. Want to guess what failed ? ( not 12v battery).

[@AlexVenz]

Was it the DC-DC converter?

[@Chrisb8s]

@@AlexVenz cooling/heating fan failure :) yay,, still under warranty. I am hoping that before I hit 100,000 everything gets replaced.

[@Chrisb8s]

I am at 96.000 miles

[@AlexVenz]

HVAC blower fan failure caused all of those errors to pop up? Wow...

[@Chrisb8s]

Alex Venz not the hvac. The fan to cool and heat the battery.

[@michaelrbodner]

Mine died on my Model 3 without warning 😢

[@AlexVenz]

No warning at all? Unusual. Maybe a cell shorted or something? 🤷‍♂️

[@michaelrbodner]

Alex Venz yeah I thought it was strange, but they towed me in and had me up and running the next day. Great video by the way!!

[@PlanetEntropy]

Michael Bodner Mine did the same last night. Completely bricked my car with no warning. And if you go on the Tesla Motors Club forums, you’ll find this is an alarmingly common problem for model 3 owners. My car is 29 months old with 12,000 miles. Seems to happen most often around the 24 month mark.

[@michaelrbodner]

PlanetEntropy my wife also has a Model 3 and it happened to her as well. For both of our cars it was exactly at the 18 month mark.

[@robert5008]

Add another reason not to buy the Tesla brand.

[@jamescox2894]

Can you just ever answer the questions without an unnecessary paragraph of info nobody asked about.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

Tesla customer service is a complete nightmare. I don’t understand how Tesla is going to stay in business with the way that they’re going???

[@AlexVenz]

The products do go a long way toward making up for the company's deficiencies, but they will have to address the customer service and communication issues at some point.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

Alex Venz I hope that it’s sooner than later. They have to think of themselves as a car manufacturer and they have to satisfy customer’s wishes. It’s not a cellphone 📱 that they’re selling here, it’s a huge mechanical device, that happens to be very complicated. It doesn’t have all of the mechanical bits, but it’s got electronics that are hard to diagnose. If you have an engine that’s leaking oil from the valve cover gasket, it won’t stop the engine from running, it only makes a little mess that only people like us would notice.

[@67daltonknox]

Because Tesla is not a product so much as a religion and having got the word, the faithful wear their flagellation scars with pride.

[@67daltonknox]

Because Tesla is less a business than a rel gion and the faithful wear their flagellation scars with pride.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

dalton knox And mainstream customers who see a car a just a way to get from point A to B. Won’t drink the Electric Jesus cool aid.

[@roger_is_red]

ha don't give a rats a**