Tesla Lies, Ford Tries, Rivian Dies | In Depth

[@NowYouKnowChannel]

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[@gwgans]

Tried this brand when they sponsored Lex’ podcast. Our house’s verdict: inedible. YMMV

[@clivemarriott7749]

I don't eat breakfast cereal but I'm pleased that you are supporting this brand. It seems that keeping the sugar down helps protect the body from diabetes in later life.

[@glike2]

AC recirculation mode saves a lot of energy, but you need to have a little CO2 sensor to tell you when to occasionally get some fresh air. On long trips I am able to use recirculation at least 90% of the time. Also the cold air increases the density of the air which increases the aerodynamic drag so if you slow down a little bit it will compensate for that

[@glike2]

Can you make a shorter version of this with Tesla information only? I want to share it but it's too complicated for somebody that just has a Tesla and is confused about....

[@steveperreira5850]

Sorry to say, better check your thermal dynamics, all internal combustion engines are more efficient with lower external temperature. There are no exceptions. I’m not advocating for ice cars. Not at all. I’m an electrical engineer and I’m totally on board on EV‘s, in fact I worked on them. The efficiency of any heat engine is increased when the temperature between the outside air and the combustion temperature inside the engine are increased, so more efficient if the outside air temperature is lower, or The combustion temperature is higher. As for friction in the bearings and the fluids, this is temporary, only for a minute or two, as they heat up quickly with the engine running and the wheels moving. Please make corrections, as people will start believing this boloney that seems like common sense, But it is not right.

[@pjcornelius]

This is why I have always set my Model X (for entire six years I’ve owned it) to display charge level as percentage rather than miles. Of course I live in the mountains of Colorado and with temperatures often well below 0 degrees Fahrenheit and snowy conditions I am accustomed to significant range loss in winter. 40% is not unusual. I’ve never found the “miles” display useful. I prefer to see the charge percentage.

[@tonydeveyra4611]

I live in SoCal but have taken my Model Y LR on some road trips to fairly cold places. I always thought that range losses like 40%+ were the result of the battery being cold soaked from sitting overnight. If the car was plugged in and able to use grid power to keep its battery warm and you can start off with a warm battery, the range loss *should* be much less...right? Maybe closer to 20-30% or so? This is what I remember experiencing when I was road tripping through idaho and utah last winter, primarily using superchargers and RV park L2 plugs.

[@gordongekko4752]

@@tonydeveyra4611 Here is how I do it. 1. Charge your Tesla overnight until departure for work or a trip in the winter. 2. Go to your Tesla app - Schedule - turn on Precondition (which sets your climate and preheats your battery) - set time to 30-minutes prior to your departure in the winter. 3. Unplug your charger from your Tesla and drive to work or a trip in the winter. 4. Problem solved

[@doates625]

Same here. Mileage may feel more intuitive but it's misleading. Over time I've grown a strong intuition for battery percent usage based on distance, speed, weather, etc.

[@pjcornelius]

@@gordongekko4752 All of your suggestions are good and will help a lot. I’ve driven in 6 Colorado mountain winters and that is what I do (although charging overnight is a bit misleading as you should try your best to reach your desired state of charge right before you leave). But, even with all that, you will still have significant loss of range in severe winter conditions, just not as bad as it would be if you did not do these things. The important thing is to be aware of all of this and plan accordingly. For instance don’t expect to be able to make a trip that is easy in the summer with 20% battery remaining without making a charging stop in the winter. Once you get used to it and know what to expect it is easy to adapt and it becomes second nature. And of course the Tesla charging network helps tremendously, I have made several cross-country trips in summer, and some fairly long winter trips, all without issue after just basic planning and using common sense.

[@FC-jh6wg]

So my experience and habits are totally different: I never used the % other than setting it up for charging level because over time you lose battery range. That’s about it! Whenever I drive the car I ALWAYS use the mileage metric and know that I have to rely on the route planner estimate instead of the one always displayed in the instrument cluster. That is it! Given that route planner is so good there is no misleading looking at km/mile! Don’t understand why you would like to convert distance in %. Not intuitive at all! So if I go 150km and my route planner says I have range for 120km, I know I will make it. That’s simple. Don’t care about knowing I will arrive w/ 10% left in the battery… Besides, the route planner would tell me (displays both) if ever I need to. Am I missing something everyone figured out despite my 5 years of ownership and close to 10 years reading everything about Tesla?😅

[@larsdrakblod240]

i LOVE episodes like this, when you show REALITY, NOT what something hypothetically can do... you guys rock!!

[@James-kg1wf]

Agreed as most videos are just ignoring the reality and trying to show how great these bevs are and not the bad. The current issues still being relevant and no solution coming anytime soon that is actually being tested in the real world will probably allow fcev vehicles of all types to takeover the market in the end. I could be wrong however looking at all the vehicles and technologies the bev's aren't innovating fast enough for the real world adoption to actually take hold. Also this doesn't even take into account the fact that the face value price is increasing and not decreasing in price which is terrifying.

[@rvboyett]

As a Rivian owner, I really hope you fellas give an update on the problem you experienced. Thus far, my R1T has been pretty solid but that kind of issue is concerning.

[@billsrelectric]

I have not seen that issue from any other Rivian owners....

[@rvboyett]

@@billsrelectric nothing here either. The only issue I’ve had is the dumb tonneau cover. Other than that, my truck has been pretty much flawless.

[@alexzz1234]

They didn’t do a full restart (hazard light + left button). Just a restart of the dash screen

[@leechild4655]

@@alexzz1234 i was going to say, try toggling the whole thing off and on again. ever had a computer that didnt start right so you shutdown and do it agai and wha-lah works nearly every time

[@phenolica]

@@alexzz1234 exactly. I’ve had quirks like this in my Tesla 3 that have been remedied with a reboot. They should have done that and been complete - and not just chalked it up to the idea the Rivian coudn’t handle the cold (which might be misleading)

[@JohnJohnson-rl7fq]

I love the nuance and insight! I bought a used model3 instead of a Chevy bolt because of your honesty about EVs. It all boiled down to the Tesla supercharger network.

[@TKevinBlanc]

If it's not a Tesla, it's probably best thought of as a second car.

[@jacobcarlson4010]

Not necessarily. For me, my Nissan LEAF is actually the most sensible choice. I live out in a small town, where the nearest supercharger is 58 miles one-way away; that’s fully 2.21x the distance to the nearest city that I go to shop at. So the supercharger network adds basically no value for me. And I’m a fairly old-school guy; I like having buttons for climate control, radio, etc. So the ergonomics of a Tesla would be completely wrong for me. And I may be in the vast minority of people, but I prefer a vehicle that takes a little bit of skill to use effectively; route planning goes far beyond just where chargers are located and “true or false, I can get to them” (though that may just be my background as a trucker talking). And last but certainly not least is the fact that my LEAF only cost 14.4k, while the cheapest Tesla within 500 miles is 3.7x my earnings from last year (before other expenses like insurance, my house, utilities, etc.) Point blank, teslas are not always the best value. Buy what actually makes sense for your situation.

[@JohnJohnson-rl7fq]

@@jacobcarlson4010 I bought a leaf for 8,000 in 2020. It cost 75 bucks to register for 5 years. I am going to drive it until it doesn’t drive anymore because of the satisfaction of all the cost savings. It is not as fun to drive as my Tesla, but I get so much out of it for so little expense. It just makes me smile.

[@jeffharrison6059]

One difference on the comparison of Bjorn's Tesla range loss to your Ford range loss: He was driving in -4°F temperature, and your temperature was 19°F (which I assume warmed up as your time went on). That's a huge difference in temperature with regards to EVs and especially heat pumps.

[@ChiSpire]

actually it was -13°F when Tesla was tested. Look at this video at 16:40 it the display shows -25°C which equals -13°F. So the Ford was tested in 38°F warmer conditions. Seems like a fair comparison 🙄

[@dhui777]

“One night in the cold is too much for an adventure truck.” Great line! 😂

[@usa-ev]

Yes, you were freaked out by the Ford's accurate range estimate this first time. But you won't be freaked out next time. You'll know if it says you can get there that you can get there.

[@matthewboyd8689]

Probably due to non efficient heating, for both the battery and cabin heating. But a standard metric is you loose 1% of range for every 2°F under 60°F or 1°F over 70°F

[@davwill124]

best to pr heat the battery before you disconnect from the charge station. that way the charge station is proving juice to pre heat it

[@reiniernn9071]

@@davwill124 Biggest energy loss : every 3 degrees celsius lower we have 1% more drag. A heatpump system (which I have in my ioniq 5) uses , temp -6 celsius) between 600and 1 kw of energy. Depending on my speed (highway or local) I loose 5% to 10% of range due to heating. Another 6% due to extra drag. Makes 16% less (on 430 km that is 70km.) My previous leaf would cost me 30% of range with -6. In the Netherlands it is selden below minus 2 celsius....My range experience is 380 km with that temperature..less energyloss for heating and drag. For the rest...More than enough 350KW chargers around to charge when needed (but I always check before I start their locations...just in case I cannot reach the planned one) And when I cannot reach any 250LW+ charger I'll look for the fastest one below that charging speed (happens outside main routes )

[@catbert7]

@@davwill124 If it's been charging the battery should already be heated. The point of pre-heating is to get it to charging temp when it hasn't been charging.

[@MikeSmith-tu1ln]

What about a traffic jam or major accident on the way ? Will you “ get there “ ?

[@klantic2]

So what happened with the Rivian? Did a reboot work? What was the end result?

[@DaNerd01]

ya, why didn’t they try a hard reboot. The reboot they tried on video was only for the infotainment. And no follow up, common guys!?

[@Glenhh]

@@DaNerd01 How do you hard reboot a BEV?

[@Kevin-bl6lg]

@@Glenhh you knock hard on the starter motor

[@senorpepper3405]

@@Kevin-bl6lg with a ball peen hammer😂

[@vuongdo1401]

Try using this cheat code for extra 30% -Up, up,down,down,B,A,B,A,Select,Start.

[@__-pl3jg]

Thanks for sharing some unbiased experiences with Rivian and Ford. Everyone else on KZbin only ever share the rosey features of their EV's.

[@Krazilok]

I think you're just not watching the right channels. I literally cancelled my F150 Lightning order after I saw a bunch of towing tests done by other youtubers. Thought I would trade in my current F150 for the Lightning but looks like that wont happen for a while.

[@slydermartin6008]

Rosey? K. The EV is DEAD...as are the brains of people that buy them.

[@__-pl3jg]

@Slyder Martin - It makes more sense after you drive one a while. I recommend using the Turo app to rent a Tesla for your next road trip. Also, once you crunch the numbers on paper you'll see that a $60k Tesla sedan costs the same over 5yrs as a $35k gasoline sedan. The reason people are buying EVs isn't because they're green. It's because it's cost advantageous. The one downside of all EVs in relation to ICE's is range. But the only reason the range is so limited is to cut down on cost. In 2-4 years when current battery technology finally makes it into widescale manufacturing things are really going to take off.

[@slydermartin6008]

"In 2-4 years when current battery technology finally makes it into widescale manufacturing'.....Been around long enough to KNOW what bullshit is. Pushing Inferior Technology against PROVEN Technology? Yeah....The "Future" of that looks like the 1200's. Hmmmmm....Have you read about the FODD SHORTAGES IN THE TIME OF THE GREATEST FOF REVOLUTION IN HUMANITY? No. No.

[@slydermartin6008]

@@__-pl3jg STOP! You're going to hurt yourself. Every bit of that is Bullshit. Every bit of that is Anti Human. But... You... That!

[@wallykramer7566]

But what about the Rivian? Did plugging it in help? Maybe it needed some other kind of service? Did the display(s) come back on? Or do you have to replace the whole vehicle?

[@RexKarrs]

My Tesla does that, if I don't drive it very often. If I wait a few minutes, the displays gradually come back to life. Inconvenient, disappointing, but not fatal.

[@castortoutnu]

Imagine your Rivian crapping out after a night camping in the mountain 🙃

[@thebackyardhomestead1510]

Thats actually legit scary. Thats gonna get someone hurt

[@rngalston]

wonder if the screens(and power steering) would've come back on after muscling it down the MT a bit...

[@reggievonramstein]

@@rngalston but how do you even drive without screen and power steering?

[@ryandiehl303]

imagine your ICE vehicle not starting either. ICE vehicles are known to fail as well... they aren't infallible.

[@rngalston]

@@reggievonramstein I've done it in a loaded 3/4 ton Chevy truck-it's called rolling down hill. It WAS in an ICE so a little different. Scariest part was trying to stop with no power brakes. Wonder if the Rivian's brakes were effected...

[@johnnyli4702]

Did the Rivian start up again after charging or are the screens still knackered?

[@waqasakhtar7592]

Looks like Rivian is becoming Range Rover of EVs 😂

[@TraditionalAnglican]

Or pre-Ford purchase Jaguar when the electronics were by “the Prince of Darkness”, Lucas Ltd.!

[@slydermartin6008]

@@TraditionalAnglican"Lucas Prince of Darkness".......Oh Man!!!!!! That one takes me back! Almost peed myself!

[@dannylemmon7123]

Switching to percent and letting the routing tell you when to charge is the best way to fight range anxiety. I'm pretty sure Teslas can still display miles remaining though.

[@h2o_dug]

There is a vehicle setting to display % or miles

[@jlfliberty]

@@h2o_dug Thank you, I lost much respect for honest technical truth of Tesla as a reliable company watching this video. You have restored faith in the product. The guys making this video should have stated this fact that range left is an option for those that could care less about fear and feelings. Just the facts.

[@flygonc3717]

How do you review ev vehicles and not know how to change percentage to miles, not a lot of confidence in these guys 🤔

[@TSLApilot]

It should be noted that rated range assumes a percentage of slower city driving. Even in the summer I don’t expect to get 300 miles range at 75mph. I expect to charge about every 3 hrs on a long road trip.

[@michaelholliday100]

I also stop about every 3 hour, because my bladder cannot go any further. I pick a Supercharger with carryout food and a bathroom and by the time I get back to my Tesla it is ready for another 3 hours...

[@dwalley1234]

Great video Zac and Jesse. I live in Ontario, Canada and drive and old model x90 with only 340Km (212miles) of range at best and yet I have never been seriously challenged by range anxiety in winter. My range will drop to 210Km (132miles) in temps of -20c but the Tesla superchargers always save the day with their frequency along the trip and their speed . Never been an issue - sure the car says I will arrive with only 18% left on the battery, but it is very accurate. Yers, if I worked it out I would find that my range has dropped 40%, but it keeps me informed. I have to charge more frequently, but that is OK. I am never left stranded wondering where I can get a charge, and our chargers are much more scarce than in the US, but still very plentiful. That is why I will never own another brand of EV. I am loyal to Tesla.

[@sammybully5030]

but on long travels who wants to travel extra distances to charge for 20mins.... I have 2 Y's long range but thats what I hate about long travels in EVs.

[@jlfliberty]

@@sammybully5030 Thanks for the candid truth of an adult. Too many only reveal their heartfelt devotion to brand while white washing the facts.

[@danddietz]

Same issue with my 500e. In the winter, if I need the full range, I charge it to 80% over night. Then I charge to 100% in the morning. That charge just before use does wonders.

[@usa-ev]

How do you stop the charge at 80%? (Fellow 500e owner here.)

[@danddietz]

@@usa-ev I use OpenEVSE as my home charge system.

[@usa-ev]

@@danddietz Oh, nice, I just got mine going (although it is a couple of years old now). Can it read battery percentage from the car?

[@danddietz]

@@usa-ev Sadly no. So you can use the can bus to do that then send it back to OpenEVSE. (I have a raspberry pi for doing all that). Or low tech option is to just set the energy limit when you plug in. Target % - current % / 6 = energy limit.

[@danddietz]

@@usa-ev Example: I’m at 35% and want to be at 80%. I take (80 - 35) / 6. So I would pick 7kWh from the Energy Limit drop down. It’s a bit annoying to pull out your phone to put the energy limit in, but it saves from charging to 100% all the time. And no coding. Depending on your battery you might need to divide by 5 or 6. That’s just my rough percent to kWh conversion factor.

[@WinstonFiore]

Oh man I remember renting a Model Y on Turo on a trip to visit my family in the midwest. This was my first experience with an EV, and I was pumped. Parked it outside in the cold overnight and came back to it the next day. I don't know that the battery depletion was as bad as this, but it was pretty bad. Definitely a wtf moment

[@catbert7]

@@tedmoss Not really, no. Warming up the battery helps a bit and you get a bit back as you drive but you simply cannot travel nearly as far in the cold as you can in moderate weather, for all the reasons they listed in the vid.

[@garywicenski184]

GOM ! great job explaining how the different range estimation systems work. I have a 2021 40kw Leaf my first ev (fancy golf cart) :) Thanks to you guys I have learned lots about EVs. Next one will have a T on the hood because of all the advanced tech and better charging network from Tesla. CCS vehicles have lots of catching up to do! so until then .....thx

[@Ben-fe1ft]

What did it take to get the R1T going?

[@sybaseguru]

In cold weather (

[@michaelholliday100]

Do you pre-condition prior to trips? I am in Ohio and even when it is 10 to 15 degrees Fahrenheit with the heat set to 70 degrees and Automatic Climate Control I only lose about 10 to 15%.

[@patrickshelley09]

@@michaelholliday100 His car is three years old and may not have a heat pump. I have a 2022 model 3 rwd and lose around 15 percent range in the cold, if I precondition. I'm just north of you in the mitten.

[@ironborg6405]

Who’s getting a Tesla with these new prices?! I just canceled my bolt order lol

[@chriauc2976]

Lier lier your pants are on fire Like a baby price drop would change your mind … BOLT city car vs Tesla road trip /city car Dam you stock pusher your part a FUD against Tesla and its boi

[@ironborg6405]

@@chriauc2976 What are you even talking about? Tesla lowered prices last night in the USA

[@paulhailey2537]

LMFAO A BOLT WHAAAAA WHAAAAA WHAAAAA

[@bobbycake8077]

Lol hoping bolt gets a bigger price drop perfect car for my kid

[@MikeSmith-tu1ln]

Probably better off with the Bolt.

[@PurpleSideBlack]

Bjorn Nyland was in winter conditions in -20°C. Thats really cold. I've driven my Model 3 LR in -30°C multiple times for my 150km round trip commute. Worked fine but it was between 35 and 40% range loss. Big battery and I can charge at home and work. Still could have done the round trip no issues. 568km range EPA is still 312km with 45% range loss. 187km range if you run between 80% and 20% SOC.

[@phillipsusi1791]

Is the range loss due to burning more power running the heat, or just that they don't want to let the battery discharge as much when it's that cold? In other words, does it actually take more power to recharge it after the same drive in the cold? I haven't noticed any loss on my model 3 standard range this winter but I do live in Florida so it's only been getting down to the 40s F ( maybe 6 C ).

[@beefuzzy310]

2022 MYP, 306 mile range. My commute is 102 miles round trip. I cannot drive it twice without charging. No matter the time of year or outside temp. Generally the trip is 30-35% battery each way. After 1 year, we now estimate real range is 170-250 miles.

[@Chris-ew9mh]

No Display screen on the Rivian at startup just because it's 19F?

[@babstude]

that was VERY interesting guys !! I consider myself an "EV winter snob" since I've driven the Model S through 7 Canadian winters so far with no issues but I still learned a lot from this vid - thank you thank you !!!

[@jooot_6850]

mmmm… big V8 nice and warm…

[@EmilyChuu]

@@jooot_6850mmmm…. no range anxiety and ez too find gas…

[@davebarron5939]

I struggle with your "loss comparison", my 79 Chevy big block gets the same mileage from 20F below zero, to 90F+ temperature, doesn't change it at all. One thing that DID come to me listening to your presentation, how does the typical snow / ice covered roads effect the "Re-Gen" that is always taunted by the rose colored glasses crowd.

[@wineberryred]

I think we can say that the Rivian range goes to zero when it gets cold.

[@Teamvenomracing]

Not even close to true. Mine has been flawless, even below zero.

[@relativeus]

@@Teamvenomracing how long have you been driving your Rivian? I mean, my tesla has done this before where the screen disappears. A reboot remedied it. I never have had the driving capabilities or power steering affected during the blackout.

[@JohnStacy]

I own a Rivian and live full time in colder weather and this has never happened to me. I have had 0 issues in the cold

[@Teamvenomracing]

@@relativeus two months now. Been super cold at times. No issues so far.

[@hobz7782]

I had my Model 3 display go out while driving!! Not only do i lose access of GPS but I couldn't even know if my blinkers were on or off.

[@nemesis1134]

The Tesla range estimator has been amazing for me, time and battery capacity are spot even with long drives, detours and heavy traffic, just very satisfied with it almost like my assistant - who would probably not calculate wind velocity either.

[@sm8100]

One thing for the Tesla. If you long press the battery percentage icon, it will show you the range in mi/kms. Not sure of its accuracy of prediction though.

[@marchelgeson]

So what ended up being the problem/solution with the Rivian? You kind of left us hanging there.

[@Curbow5]

At 17:38 you show 66%, if you tap on that number it will you show mileage left. I assume the mileage would be different at different temperatures for the same 66% value?

[@toolp5770]

Sadly that is not the case. I have my Model 3 on percentage because of this.

[@4LXK]

Was doing a Sweden road trip a week ago and you are on point on how much work the planning does. With the (partially open to non-Tesla) superchargers every 50km or so it didn't matter too much though, despite a snow storm and constant rain at around 0-3C and overnight street parking.

[@1chipmaynard]

My cousin's husband has an R1T, and took it to visit her parents in Maryland at Christmas. When they wanted to leave Christmas afternoon, the Rivian was unresponsive in the driveway like yours. Haven't heard how it was resolved.

[@JonathanKleinfelt]

We need a follow up on what happened to the Rivian

[@Teamvenomracing]

Low voltage, 12 volt battery, failed.

[@JonathanKleinfelt]

@@Teamvenomracing That seems odd for a less than 1 year old vehicle/battery. DId weather influence the low voltage or maybe an older battery used in the Rivian manufacturing process?

[@Teamvenomracing]

@@JonathanKleinfelt I feel its a combination of saftware not keeping the battery charged via the high voltage battery, and probably shelf life. These batteries might be a few years old before we receive the vehicles. I'll try and find out if mine have a date on them.

[@Teamvenomracing]

@@JonathanKleinfelt I agree. Not sure what happened or what their fix is yet. So far, my R1T has been great. Hopefully its been resolved.

[@WillTheBassPlayer]

The thing I've noticed over the years is, Tesla always claims the biggest number as possible to look as good as possible, even if that means struggling to deliver. Ford always seems to give a conservative number that's likely to be correct, even if less illustrious

[@brilanto]

Does FORD indicate or advertise the conservative range?

[@WillTheBassPlayer]

@@brilanto Usually its in the advertising. obviously in winter its less, but I have seen reports of Ford EVs getting better than advertised range in perfect conditions (more so in the Mach E than the Lightning, but the lightning too). I remember when the PHEVs that Ford had would say max was like 21mi, when a light foot could get you into the 40s. And of course this is all anecdotal, but I def would expect a Ford to hit Max advertised range before a Tesla

[@tfragia1]

Took a trip last year in MN when temps were well below zero °F. Pretty close to %50 loss in range. Made it to a super charger though. 👍 Looking forward to your Rivian adventure. 🙂

[@highrzr]

My ICE vehicle doesn't loose anywhere near 30% range in the winter. At most it's about 10% which is mostly from idling more. So basically, EVs are really only good for around town, short trips, and 35 MPH or less driving in warm climates. When you take into account the premium you pay over an ICE vehicle even with the cost of fuel, it's just a financially unfeasible and irresponsible decision to own one. Basically just toys for the wealthy.

[@lunchrevisited]

Great topic and very important. Please go deeper and include some tests using the battery preconditioning features. My model 3 warns me that regenerative braking will be reduced until the battery is fully at temp, so part of the cold weather range loss is due to that, and can be prevented by running the cabin heater for a few minutes prior to departure. I'd like to know the actual impact that has on overall range.

[@dwalley1234]

Running the cabin heater before a trip keeps the occupants warm but does not seem to help with battery rechage when braking - not that puts a lot back into the battery, 5-10% at best

[@finaltouchlawnapplications3924]

Aaaaaamazing! Second time watching this during the week. Thanks so much guys. This is the type of episode I’ll be sending to my parents. We were just talking about this exact thing last night over dinner when my mom mentioned she read something saying that Teslas have a fifty percent loss of range in the cold. I said, nope, only thirty to forty percent in New Hampshire and then Norway where it is the coldest. We talked about many positives of Teslas over everything things else because of its on-board software, route planner and the amazing super charging network. All for now. You guys stay warm!!! -Lee

[@briantrent5020]

I know this was a test, but I’m wondering what the range of the Lighting would have been if they left it plugged in till they left. I don’t know if the Lightning has a way to precondition, but that could make a difference too.

[@dogtato]

it's relevant to test it this way if you were going to take it camping in the cold

[@mikeflanary642]

@@dogtato "camping in the cold" 🥶

[@E-Nigma_]

@@mikeflanary642 people do it all the time.

[@mikeflanary642]

@@E-Nigma_ If it were me, I'd find an RV/camper campground to plug the truck into. I'm in New England though, not many campgrounds open this time of year. In the south, maybe

[@E-Nigma_]

@@skellington2000 no. A lot of people camp during the winter, generally. Why does everyone have to try to make other people sound stupid? The reason people have something to say is because people USE THEIR trucks for camping, especially winter camping. So, it is very rational to consider an EV truck’s performance in the cold.

[@widi.1984]

My model 3 drives me nuts when we drive in the Rockies. I can barely rely on estimated range. I can start a 60 mile trip in the winter and will first display that I'll have 10-15% battery left upon reaching destination. But the % start dropping like a stone usually in the last 20 minutes... I'm regularly loosing 50% of range on a route despite driving at speed limit and keeping it cool.

[@PlausibleParadymes]

Thanks for the great episode... Still waiting for closure on the Rivian situation though LOL

[@rmkep]

This Episode should be called "It's the Superchargers Stupid 2". Nice work guys!

[@derkarhu5079]

I'll take ford's approach, happily, rather than depending on setting up a trip to get 'true range', which would change the second that i diverted from that trip...very interesting review

[@usa-ev]

💯

[@catbert7]

Agreed. Defense of being lied to is ridiculous.

[@JoeTomasone]

OK, but range can very based on destination. Without knowing if you are - for example - changing elevation significantly can alter the actual range dramatically. Highway versus city driving, speed, wind, road conditions, and more can definitely make the Ford’s pre-departure estimate a “lie” as well.

[@onlineactivityvideo]

After 2 years owning aTesla model 3 sr I can tell I never have experienced any range anxiety even in the winter going in th mountains. In these 2 years Tesla added about 50 high power charger spaces within 100 miles from home. I cannot imagine going to another brand.

[@mikldude9376]

how wonderful it can make 100 miles🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.

[@Unclewalnut]

As influencers and enthusiasts in the EV space, I am surprised at the lack of knowledge these guys have for their own vehicle. When I took delivery of my Rivian, I asked what I may experience and what troubleshooting I could do. I was told if anything happens with the display(s) to do an infotainment reset. I get that they were strapped for time, but they couldn't do a Google search? The first result when searching "Rivian blank display" gives you the solution... As an owner of a Rivian in a cold climate, I haven't had any problems, but if I did I would sure as heck be a little more understanding and try to fix the issue rather than throw my hands in the air. It is a computer and computers sometimes need a reboot. A quick reboot still beats the hassle I went through when my ICE vehicle didn't want to start in the cold. Infotainment Reset Hold the far left and far right buttons on the steering wheel for about 15 seconds. This fixes issues having to do with the screens, hotspots, Alexa not working, glitchy navigation, etc. Full reset Hold the far left button on the steering wheel and the emergency flasher button for about 15 seconds. The entire computer will restart.

[@BensEcoAdvntr]

These folks are enthusiasts of Tesla, not EVs generally.

[@Uriah625]

Although not exactly a fan of having to reset a computer on a vehicle, cold can certainly effect any vehicle. Besides the potential of gelled fuel, diesels engines do not like the cold. Funny to think that you have to plug in a diesel. Gas engines have their issues too. Any water in the system will freeze and you’re going nowhere. Not too mention they run weird until they warm up. The most ironic part about ICE vehicles, they have a battery. I’ll tell ya, when it’s really cold out I just pray my battery is good enough to start the vehicle to begin with.

[@stevestevens9068]

My 6 yr old Tesla Model X with 70,000 miles gets me everywhere I need in Colorado Winters... I even do attach a snow plow on the rear hitch mount - and back out of the garage plowing my drive / sidewalk / and school bus stop.

[@JDTaylor]

Guys, you should never leave any EV at 100% for any long length of time and you should prewarm the vehicles while still plugged in just before leaving. Being a happy Rivian owner, I would really love to know what were the issues and the solution to the R1Ts problem! One of the nice options on the Tesla is you can schedule a departure time (car charged, warmed, and battery prepped).

[@XKS99]

I think LFP battery cars are happy at 100%.

[@JoeTomasone]

Correct. At least for Tesla, who says that LFP batteries should be charged to 100% and Li-Ion to 80% or 90% (depending on who you believe), and to 100% just before a road trip.

[@netgnostic1627]

" ... prewarm while still plugged in." I live in a condo complex with no power available in the parking lot. There are lots of people like me who live in apartments etc. with no charging at home. (I don't have an EV yet, but our Canadian winters and cold-induced range reduction will stop me from getting one for a while.) I have read that the sodium-ion batteries that might become available this year work much better in winter. I'll wait and see while I keep saving my nickels and dimes.

[@XKS99]

@@netgnostic1627 I’m a big EV supporter but honestly if you don’t have home charging don’t do it unless you live next to a public charger.

[@diyi75]

A word about ICE and cold weather. I've never noticed an actual mileage drop in cold weather that I couldn't rule about road conditions & driving habits. Maybe for other components but as far as the engine and transmission is concerned, they love cold air.

[@michaelsmithers4900]

If the car is parked in a warm garage… how does that effect things? Would the tesla be minimally effected bc it starts warm then uses waste heat to maintain itself?

[@BenefitOfTheDoubtInquiry]

The preconditioning also makes a huge difference. For road trips I schedule departure time and arrange the charging to run up until about an hour before departure time, so it can pull power from the house to warm the battery and cabin, while having the charging end close to departure the pack will be warmer to begin with. I have a model 3 from 2020 that doesn't have a heat pump, so I lose maybe 25% range vs the new ones that lose about 15%.

[@sandybayes]

You provide such an essential service being more concerned with truth rather just brand. That's the main problem I have with total Tesla fans. They hesitate talking about any negatives of the brand. We as consumers certainly don't need brand support at any cost!

[@knclark513]

Thanks for sharing your experience. As a Ford engineering manager, I can assure you multiple Ford engineers are listening to your channel and internally discussing the EV charging experience. Even though its Saturday, we are not taking a day off. Chat again during your next product review.

[@johnlynch5007]

Great Video Guys. A couple weeks back I used my 2021 Model Y to tow a trailer from Carlie PA to Pittsburgh, PA. This is a 204-mile trip. The temperatures were below freezing and we had to stop at 3 superchargers on the way. Sorry I did not do a video. I have a couple pictures.

[@matthewboyd8689]

Tesla said they have the ability to build a car half the price of the Model 3. It's hard to imagine, but I know it won't come out until at least a year after the Cybertruck is done scaling up and might only be robotaxis, but I'm excited. Getting the Aptera, then the "Model 2" if they ever sell it.

[@rngalston]

Yeah, the Aptera should come out before the Model 2!

[@zackd4457]

On our 2006 Buick Lucerne 3.8L I get a 25-30% reduction on full tank in Winter as well!

[@celtics2008champs1]

Tesla DOES show remaining miles, it can be set for either percent OR miles driven. One can tap on the number to change to % or miles. Great show !!!

[@DeadWifes]

👆 came to say this. Think most of us forget though because really who uses it (:

[@rkalla]

Guys this was absolutely fantastic - reality, not marketing. Keep up the good work!

[@simonthebroken9691]

FYI... I get 12 mpg in my pickup for summer. I get 9‐10 mpg in winter. ~20% range loss. Same route & drive style. I get 5-6 mpg towing 10k anytime @ 75 mph. That's ~50% range loss. Still looking forward to upgrade to ev. Don't know when yet.

[@goshnodo]

There's no reason to lose to miles per gallon in the winter for a gas/diesel. What kind of truck?

[@gp2003gt]

You talked about the infrastructure for charging, Norway is far and above anywhere else, hats of to them.

[@MarkBarrett]

I've seen computer monitors that won't work in freezing temperatures. Turning the heat back on in the house, allowed the monitors to work again.

[@marchelgeson]

I've had that same experience. Doesn't explain the loss of power steering though. That seems more troubling to me.

[@richardgarlick8113]

Stay warm Boys ! Thanks for all the Great Content and Great Insight !

[@PatrickdaStarr]

Thank you guys for the great content on EV’s. Could you do a video on some possible options to jump or recharge an EV if you ever run out of battery while traveling?

[@mikeflanary642]

Call AAA and have them tow you on a flat bed to the nearest charger (hopefully a DCFC).

[@catbert7]

@@tedmoss It's not that simple, unfortunately. EV batteries are dangerous if misused, so they will not accept charge without the appropriate software handshake.

[@badgerdad777]

I always check battery percentage on my leaf. If I get with my destination with over 50% of my charge remaining I'm ok. In very cold temps with a degraded batter I sometimes slow down to like 45 mph and it helps allot.

[@John101B]

There are two ways to get to the accurate mileage info - one was mentioned in this video. It has insane amount of details on what the car thinks you will arrive with, and it is quite accurate. The second is just click on that "%", and it flips the unit to the mileage. Also, Bjorn's car was tested at MUCH lower temperature, so a bigger drop is not surprising. Nevertheless, I use the battery chart screen when I feel I'm going to arrive low. It works and I routinely arrive home under 10% with zero anziety.

[@kevinhelenius1573]

I live in B.C. Canada. When I got my Tesla 3 in Novemer 2018 there was only one super charger between my home and Vancover about 700k. It was snowing the day I picked up my Tesla and I was a little concerned on my way home as my only charge point at that time wa Hobe B.C. which is 450k from my home. I made it home with 3% charge left in my battery. Since I have made that trip numerous times and in the past year several more chargers have come into service. My wife and I have made many extened trips around north america and have had no charging issues. We have ocationally had to use destination chargers but used the time to do a little exploring, or have a nap.

[@johnwitkowski8462]

I don't consider the range rating as lying because the route planning is very clear and pretty accurate on how far you can drive.

[@davidbryant2872]

Exactly!

[@brucewrandol]

Good information. We have noticed that our EV6 suffers some loss. However we live in Portland, Oregon and we don’t have great distances to drive. Senior citizens don’t wander far from home.

[@daves0811]

I took delivery of my 2022 MYLR in September. Now I’m really considering also buying a MXPlaid. Omfg! So tempting with the new price drop.

[@r.a.monigold9789]

Experimenting with a new way of driving (living a new, normal life) is challenging. It is also boring - but the work is worthy and the results important. Even Superman had to do boring stuff to work his powers into a situation - like slowing the Earth's rotation to save Louis Lane. Once the Earth had slowed, all Superman had to do was fly in one direction for several hours (boring). But he did the boring stuff to save lives. Both of you are also doing important testing that is also boring but also may save lives. Thanks to the entire team for the results. Almost not boring - ALMOST.

[@jeffmckie7300]

Seems more fair and reasonable to charge so that the vehicle finishes shortly before leaving and and preconditions before leaving also. Exercising the battery from hot to cold to hot probably causes some expansion and contracting possibly physically damaging the battery too. You want to charge at night rates anyway. I do this with my model 3 and have much less cold weather loss than you did. I charge As slow as possible right up to departure time.

[@beefuzzy310]

I use to do this. First power outage changed my mind, I now charge at max after peak ends.

[@finish_my_projects]

Lol EVs are scam

[@jstar1000]

In a tesla when it shows you the percentage you just click on it (touch the percentage number) and it turns to miles, it just defaults to percentage.

[@MurF-A-ZoiD]

Great work guys like always much love here from Fresno, California

[@caseyford3368]

I keep telling people. Have a mechanical direct connect to the axle of EVs and solar, to super charge them. No more plugging in. Use V2G tech to transfer extra energy to the power grid so your vehicle doesn't start on fire or blow up from over charging. It should be easy to make the connection manual. In case the V2G tech isn't functioning correctly for some reason.

[@usa-ev]

What became of the Rivian? Pluggin in fix it?

[@StalkedByLosers]

Yes. Lithium Ion batteries freeze. The colder they get the harder it is to flow electrons in and out. It won't fully charge and won't want to give power. Best solution is to garage it and keep the temperature above 45degF.

[@howebrad4601]

Just imagine what it would do if it were cold. No offense but 19 isn't really very cold. We get a fair number of nights here where it's minus 20F, and highs of minus 10. Thanks for attempting to be honest here. Now throw a 8000lb trailer behind and repeat the test. Lastly, yes all vehicles have less range when it's "cold", however a gas vehicle can easily be refilled in minutes. That's why the issue of range isn't even a discussion point for most gas vehicle owners.

[@williambasinger5859]

How about turning on the truck for 20 or 30 minutes with it plugged in to condition the battery before your cold drive?

[@usa-ev]

Yes! Everyone is doing these worst-case cold-soak range tests. Nobody is doing a range test on how reasonable normal people would be using their trucks.

[@FuslieNTR]

When the weather went in the single digits and it rained before the temperature dropped 50 degrees overnight. It froze my Tesla and I didn’t know I had to winterize the car. The window and door handle were stuck and had to use a blow dryer

[@Maserati7200]

In teslas, if you leave your car plugged in after it’s done charging, you can warm up the battery and cabin using the charger so as to maximize range. I’ve always done this before leaving on long winter trips - just warm up through the app about 10-15 minutes before you want to leave. I’m guessing the ford and Rivian have similar features. I think it would’ve been more fair to at least do another test using the feature to pre-warm the battery and cabin

[@Ultrajamz]

The thing is, if I need to use trip planning or if I need an unplanned charge, then EVs aren’t ready for prime time.

[@phillipsusi1791]

To be fair, this sounds much like saying that if I need a gas gauge on my car to tell me when I need to put gas in, then they aren't ready for prime time. My horse can still get me home even if he's hungry.

[@primoroy]

2 points #1 I would have left both vehicles plugged in to keep the batteries warm in that weather. #2 Everyone is use to analog gas gauges that give you full, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, and low fuel warning. What's the big deal about the same info in batteries?

[@thepedalguy2932]

If you left the truck plugged in overnight and preheated the cabin before the trip , which is how they say to run EVs in cold seems you would be better off

[@davidkannheiser8748]

You can see the battery miles in a Tesla if you tap the battery icon it will switch back-and-forth between percentage and miles.

[@Snerdles]

How much do you lose if you precondition and preheat the cabin while still plugged in?

[@brucec954]

Always a good move for range if possible, not to mention more comfortable when you get in.

[@Snerdles]

@@brucec954 I'm just curious about how much range you save by not having to bother wait for the battery to warm and only having to keep the cabin warm rather than being it up to temperature.

[@jokedog]

So glad you're talking about this as other Tesla bulls don't. This will be the BIGGEST adjustment for transitioning to EV. I get only half the range (150 miles) on my Model Y LR (325 miles) on my skiing road trip in the northeast forcing me to charge every 100 miles which is about every 1.5hr (b/c u don't want to arrive with 0% left but about 20%. That's too often.

[@iBackBeat]

Interesting episode.. and nice music at the end by the way 🎶🙏🏼!

[@phillipsusi1791]

I got my wife a Tesla model X in 2016 and I got a model 3 standard range this year. We live in Florida so have never driven in sub freezing temperatures, but it has been getting down into the 40s here the last few weeks and I just plugged my model 3 in to recharge it last night for the first time in 3 weeks. I consistently get more than the "standard range" ( been averaging 180 Wh/mi instead of 225 ) even in these last few cold weeks. The only effect that I have noticed the cold has is that the car limits the peak regenerative breaking power. Unless things change drastically with another 10 or 20 degrees of cold, I think you're wrong about Tesla "lieing" about the range.

[@roguedogx]

7:25 it also wouldn't fix the issue. part of the air conditioners job is to dehumidify the cabin so that this doesn't happen. when you turned the AC off, humidity built up, and the windshield fogged up. blowing air would not fix that issue at all.... beyond possibly making a little space under the defroster to look out of, and that's not fixing much of anything.

[@jeanchapa6041]

My M3 is set to show the distance remaining, not the %. I'm sure you are aware of this setting, not sure I understand your point.

[@Sloneoak]

Between Tulsa and Dallas, there is one Tesla charger at Dennison TX. In winter with a 50Knot headwind my Plaid will just make it with 12% battery left. My Granddaughter gets routed through OK City if she tries the same trip in her RWD Model 3. Of course, the 85mph speed limit on the Turnpike doesn't help.

[@RonnieRLD]

Can't you change the setting in a Tesla so it shows distance instead of percentage? But like you said it's probably best to have the percentage instead. And why did you unplug the trucks over night? Wouldn't keeping them plugged in help keep the battery at a good temp for when you are ready to go in the morning?

[@jescocom1]

I don't know if the newer Tesla's have changed, but my 2017 Model X lets me switch from percentage to miles displayed. I had to drive over 130 miles, one way, from Memphis to Northern Arkansas soon after I bought my Model X 90D and, although it was advertised with 265-mile range, actual driving miles is about 235. The only chargers on route, (actually a little off route) was a hotel in Jonesboro, AR. I made the route twice. The first time their charger added 44 miles/hr. But the second time it only charged at 18 miles/hr. The difference was the first time their chargers were powered with 240v and the second time it was only 308v. Undoubtedly they had changed from single phase electricity to 3 phase electricity which is cheaper for them. Because of that, I had to wait another hour and still didn't have enough to get home. For the rest of the trip, instead of driving 3 miles over the posted speed limit, I drove 10 miles under and on the expressway, I drove 45mph and got home with 6 miles of charge. I had gained about 30 miles by driving slower and letting autopilot start and stop.

[@lopezb]

Great video. Just a thought: the Tesla route planning sounds great, but what about the spontaneity of driving along and changing your mind? "Hmmm...let's turn off here and take that other pass which is more scenic..." or off-roading.

[@adam-newbloom]

I'm actually on a road trip back from Minnesota in my Tesla Model y. I took this car on this trip test out the range and it is significantly less with the cold temperatures. However the accuracy of the navigation and estimated percentage at the next supercharger is pretty spot-on. The car even adjusted for a 17 Mi an hour headwind. After this trip, I definitely have more confidence in trusting the system to get me where I need to go.

[@motofunk1]

Do a survival situation cold weather challenge simulating a stuck in the snow situation.. How long can it run the hvac in the driveway. Not sure what temp to make the car or to use an on off type use plan, but come up with something to show us.

[@usa-ev]

It can power your house for > 3 days.....

[@motofunk1]

@@usa-ev Not when its cold.

[@teamsrx]

We have a 21 Mach-E 4x standard range and this is the second winter, My wife uses the car daily to drive 110 miles round trip and she never worries about range. You set the car to pre-condition in the morning when its still plugged in and you lose none of your range to do that process. Also as you drive more the car will "guess o meter" gets way more accurate. We do set the car to charge to 100% in winter and 85% in summer to account for the extra usage in the winter. Our efficiency is 3.8 in summer and 2.8 in the winter. I do wish there was a better charging network but where we live and her commute would be no different in a Tesla vs the Ford as there is no superchargers around here (Tesla or anyone else). So for use we would want more accurate range then to be lied to since we cant rely on supercharging (There are only destination chargers on her route as well as other level 2 charger)

[@colinsnee5894]

So after these experiences living in Massachusetts with the Rivian, and the cold weather issues, would you recommend someone living in MA buy a Rivian? Seems it’s not ideal for those who live in this area, is that your thought?