Tesla Model 3 - First Look under a Performance AWD (P3D)

[@MrMysterious420]

Rich sent me, please continue updating us on your progress. This is highly interesting and you have some unique knowledge of Tesla components!

[@Ingineerix]

I'm currently trying to get my shop moved from it's current location of 17 years here in Berkeley, and it's consuming all my time. This is why I haven't had free time to do more videos recently. When I get settled in at the new location, I will resume making videos, including a new series on the Sprinter Conversion. Be sure to Subscribe to see my future videos!

[@theshavingsoapchannel8449]

@@Ingineerix We'll all be here anxiously waiting! :)

[@Ryukachoo]

@@Ingineerix Wait you guys were in Berkeley all this time? Damn, and I was thinking of renting a stall for my own Corvette C3 conversion. Where's the new shop?

[@Wookey.]

@@Ingineerix Yeah I just got here via Rich too. I am _extremely_ interested in your sprinter conversion as I've been planning exactly that - something the size of a sprinter or master with a tesla drivetrain to get a useful-range camper van. As no-one is making such a thing at the moment it seems like I might just have to DIY. Glad to see someone else has the same idea (it's a fairly obvious idea!), especially someone with your relevant expertise. Subscribed :-) I have a house-upgrade project to finish (1960 house->passivehouse (EnerPhit) retrofit) before starting that so I can follow your efforts for a year or so first. I'm an embedded linux dev so was amused to see Tesla doing something as dumb as putting /var/log/* straight into the flash filesystem. As you say I guess they didn't employ any decent embedded engineers :-) I just discovered the openinverter guys this week too - turns out there is loads more good stuff going on than I'd realised.

[@seenstee]

I love these videos. Keep up the great work!

[@Laserblade]

Thank you Phil, you have helped me (and many others) understand these machines much better. If I knew your location I would route my travels that I might shake your hand someday and express my appreciation personally.

[@Ingineerix]

I'm in the San Francisco area. (Berkeley)

[@144Donn]

Ingineerix always makes one feel as though they are upgraded to an associate Engineer. Wonderful work!

[@mynewschannel3100]

@Rich Rebuilds brought me here :) Great channel

[@Ingineerix]

Thanks! Move videos coming once I get my shop moved to a new location.

[@snoozieboi]

@@Ingineerix Came from Rich too, your info about the SSD problem is such a major issue that you should make a separate video series on it. What are people's options? What about EU owners? Having this issue in a car would be like a rain cloud following it everywhere. Maybe you and Rich can escalate the awareness in a tidy way for Tesla to notice.

[@MrPnew1]

Thanks Phil Rich sent me too. I loved the video where you talked about the relentless writing of data to that chip that ultimately gives up the ghost due to a finite number or write cycles. Good content right there.

[@Bo12346hhgfgdg]

I was once told by a Tesla "enthusiast" that you didnt have any oil in anything so there was never an oil changed needed on a tesla. Puzzled, knowing it has motors, my simple response was what did you think the motors stayed cool with, hopes and dreams or oil? Naturally, his response was hopes and dreams.

[@Ingineerix]

There's definitely oil, but it's fully synthetic and designed to last the life of the car. So the "no oil changes" part is correct, though personally I think changing the lubricant every 50k is cheap insurance, so that's what I advise.

[@Bo12346hhgfgdg]

@@Ingineerix well of course Telsa like all other car manufacturers is gonna pitch the "lifetime oil" bs, thus passing on the enormous cost for consumers to fix once you are out of warranty. You gotta love the marketing games they play at our expense. There is NO synthetic oil in existence that is gonna las the life of the car. As time will tell once many Telsa owners are stuck with enormous repair bills because the motors overheated or seized due to unchanged oil, this "lifetime oil" that is used as a marketing scam hopefully will be put to bed for good.

[@theshavingsoapchannel8449]

I've learned so much from your channel! It's been a while since you last uploaded, and hope everything is going well with you. Your content is missed; hope you'll start uploading again soon! Edit: just read a comment of yours stating that you're in the process of moving. That can't be easy! Your videos show how packed your old shop is/was with equipment. Best of luck with the move, and really look forward to seeing your new setup!

[@tonystark6263]

Rich sent me, excited to see more videos like this!

[@Ingineerix]

I'm moving, but once in my new shop, videos will be coming again!

[@Antonis76]

Rich definitely sent me here. I am enjoying your content as well. Keep it up

[@chuckboyle8456]

Very nice review, excellent presentation...thanks! Your getting much more proficient with the new gimbal cam.

[@Ryukachoo]

Praying for updates on model 3 motor hacking. It's like nobody has even tried to make open source controllers for them yet, or if they have, they're being very quiet about it

[@Ingineerix]

I have a controller that allows the 3 drive unit to run outside of the car. However, it's not open-source.

[@Ryukachoo]

@@Ingineerix Ah, that's kind of a bummer but at least that means the m3 controller isn't too difficult to hack if you managed it so fast. Personally I've been looking at those super high featured all-in-one controllers like the T-1C, huge price be damned. How much power can you squeeze out of that rear drive unit at like 350 volts anyway? And is the rear drive unit from the performance model 3 physically different from the regular rear drive unit?

[@Ingineerix]

Thanks for the insult. No cake for you.

[@Ryukachoo]

@@Ingineerix Sowwy :( , I'm not good enough to put together a complete system from a few different controllers and components communicating with each other , but for people that are, and want to get that perfect setup, I'm sure your controller will be great

[@turbomar6667]

I can imagine how quickly this neat setup gets ruined by our Canadian road salt! Keep these high quality videos coming!

[@pepstein]

Turbomar keep in mind he removed the covers before shooting this video, so he could get a good look at the internals. Even so, I'm are Canadian winters will be hard on it. They're hard on everything.

[@Ingineerix]

Yes, normally all this is covered up. Obviously the salt will still affect it somewhat, but Tesla appears to use all galvanized steel in the bodywork. Forged aluminum will start to look cruddy, but a little superficial corrosion will not affect it's performance.

[@WANDERER0070]

Id get all the steel frame undercoated anyway just to be sure

[@TabsT-vy5jy]

Rich rebuilds sent me here

[@Ingineerix]

Welcome!

[@craigslist04]

Rich rebuilds sent me here!

[@Ingineerix]

Welcome!

[@tigeroll]

Best view I've ever seen of a Tesla. Now I want one.

[@WANDERER0070]

tigeroll Half a milion people waiting in line already,, ,I just wish that GM and other companies got in the EV game too

[@kevinisawake]

PHIL - where are the videos for 2019 man? Just registered to you after watching the video you took with Rick Rebuilds. I wanted to see the progress with the VAN rebuild using the Model 3 systems.

[@Ingineerix]

I'm currently trying to get my shop moved from it's current location of 17 years here in Berkeley, and it's consuming all my time. This is why I haven't had free time to do more videos recently. When I get settled in at the new location, I will resume making videos, including a new series on the Sprinter Conversion.

[@johnguarino6891]

Nice video. It's nice to see all the mechanic part of the car

[@stevebakker6884]

Thank you so much for another great video. I just realized I need to go back and up vote all these new ones.

[@Ingineerix]

Thanks! The better they are rated, the more people will get to see them.

[@pault5179]

Steve bakker Their descriptions are good as well

[@JohnSmith-rf1tx]

Nice vid, +1. I'd also like to hereby nominate "Raceway" as a replacement name for the "tunnel" passage in the batteries. This is what SpaceX calls the channel that runs down the exterior of their rockets to protect all the cabling/wires that they don't want to run through the LOX/RP-1 tanks. Not sure if it's a general rocket industry term/name, but I like it and I think it would also work well in this instance.

[@Ingineerix]

Yeah, I like raceway too! =)

[@djgarrett21]

Yes, raceway is an industry term for the external bundle of cabling running down the side of a LV.

[@hondaguy9153]

A raceway is used for wiring in many instances. Works great in my book.

[@Mr5Stars]

Hi Phil, Loved the video with you and Rich. How can I turn OFF the Lynux System Logging to avoid burning out the chip you mentioned in Rich rebuilds video?. I drive my Model 3 A LOT ( 17k miles in 10 Months), I am not an engineer or tech guru, Is this something we have to mail you the chip, or can you show us via a KZbin video? Thanks for the video and the great info.

[@wstoettinger]

I'd like to know that too! or somebody who can do that on Central Europe

[@Ingineerix]

Unfortunately it can't be done remotely anymore. Tesla works really hard to keep us out. The only way right now is to send me the Tegra module. I'm hoping the exposure will encourage them to fix this issue. Let's hope!

[@josharmour]

@@Ingineerix you think it's possible for someone to uncork an awd to be a performance?

[@Ingineerix]

Yes, but it would most definitely void your warranty.

[@reviewcrewforyou]

@@yoitsz will they not just sell you another key card for 5 bucks since you own it?

[@tonydee3137]

Hi there, I went to the Patreon website but gave up trying to find you in the middle of all the available categories. It may be an idea to add it to recomended link in your clip. I went to look whether I could make a donation to your efforts.Great video with beautiful delivery.

[@eddyrelik]

No Nut on the Motor Mount Bolt! @1:05. Hope you put it back on!

[@Ebbrush3]

looks like the nuts is welded to the frame.....

[@keeshaasnoot]

Thank you very much for another interesting video! Looking forward to the next one! :)

[@hiteshpatel3910]

Can you make a video of what component hardware/software makes difference between dual motor 3D v/s performance dual motor P3D?

[@imho7250]

@1:50 it looks like it still has the harmonic damper (best guess) tie wrapped to the upper control arm. I know Sandy Munro was speculating that it wouldn’t be needed on the front motor version, but based on where it’s located, it wouldn’t be affected much by the front driveline mass. Are there any other guesses as to the function of this aside from harmonic damper?

[@Ingineerix]

It's an anti-resonance damper. It lowers the fundamental frequency to improve NVH and/or handling.

[@ghangj]

Rich hasn't reached his FINAL FORM

[@wstoettinger]

rich sent me! keep up the good work!

[@typxxilps]

Like your TESLA FIRED SPRINTER project you were working on during rich rebuild video

[@Ingineerix]

Thanks! I am in the middle of a move, but I expect to post more videos once moved. Subscribe to my channel for updates on the Sprinter project.

[@christophercrim919]

Hey Phil, I remember meeting you back at the Nissan LEAF meetups in 2011/12, etc. - and I really appreciated your nice little modifications for the LEAF including the EVSE upgrade and the HVAC control tweak. (I later moved to a RAV4 EV and then last year to a Model 3.) Anyway, I just saw your video presentation with Rich on your Sprinter electric conversion based on the Model 3. That looks fantastic! I would love to get a short wheelbase Sprinter or Transit van converted to electric for a fully electric camper van conversion. I'll be watching to see how that goes and if you ever decide to offer that as a paid project. Cheers!

[@Ingineerix]

I'm currently trying to get my shop moved from it's current location of 17 years here in Berkeley, and it's consuming all my time. This is why I haven't had free time to do more videos recently. When I get settled in at the new location, I will resume making videos, including a new series on the Sprinter Conversion. Be sure to Subscribe to see my future videos!

[@kevinbreslin5718]

You might want to put some contact info or link to your shop in the description or your about section. Thanks for sharing the knowledge

[@Ingineerix]

My email is in my channel information. Feel free to contact me there.

[@craigslist04]

Hope to see more on the Sprinter Van / Model 3 conversion. This is great content. Thanks...

[@Ingineerix]

I'm currently trying to get my shop moved from it's current location of 17 years here in Berkeley, and it's consuming all my time. This is why I haven't had free time to do more videos recently. When I get settled in at the new location, I will resume making videos, including a new series on the Sprinter Conversion. Be sure to Subscribe to see my future videos!

[@craigslist04]

@@Ingineerix , Subbed as soon as I saw Rich's video. What city are you moving to? The secondary market for Tesla parts is going to be big, Conversions and Offgrid energy storage applications.

[@mikeedward2827]

Nice to see you evolved from jumping Peugeot's over the Dequindre bump 🤘😆🤘 -Lasiuta

[@Ingineerix]

A Tesla is MUCH more fun to jump! =)

[@czealtamahawk1228]

new subscriber. Thanks for what you do. Can you install 2.5 MCU with my 2016 Tesla Model X 90D???

[@Ingineerix]

No, Sorry. Retrofits are complex and costly, which is also why Tesla doesn't usually offer them either. I recommend you sell the 2016 and buy newer. (Then you get a warranty too!)

[@czealtamahawk1228]

@@Ingineerix Thanks bro. Can I visit you this August?

[@maxmoq8423]

awesome content! can you do a video showing how the air vent works internally?

[@norbertbajgyik1607]

Hi, I m sooooo happy I find you channel :)))) I have a model 3 and is salvage title :((( but you just gave me hope , Is there any way I can get in touch with you other then here? Thank you

[@salocin911]

Rich Sent me!

[@Ingineerix]

Welcome!

[@Zspeed]

Supporting your channel!!!

[@Ingineerix]

Thanks, Appreciated!

[@ShaneXman]

Awesome! Thank you. :) -Shane

[@hubmartin]

So the rear motor has permanent magnets (pmsm?) and the front has induction coils to create magnetic power like model S/X? Is this to get more efficiency by using different motor in different speeds? Thaks for awesome videos, it would be great if you take hi-res photos of the pcbs so we can see chips part numbers. Thank you.

[@MsSomeonenew]

Well you can never freely spin any permanent magnet motor, so I imagine that is why they it's only on the rear which will be the main drive unit and the front can be turned off for most of the time.

[@hubmartin]

MsSomeonenew right, the cogging effect is the issue. In model s/x they use front or rear motor based on a electric efficiency within certain speed ranges. In model 3 the rear motor will need to be active basically all the time and the front one will add more torque, grip and power.

[@Ingineerix]

Yes,, my understanding is the rear motor is more efficient at lower speeds, so most of the low-speed driving is RWD while at higher speed the induction motor is king, so they send the torque there. When you punch it, both come online.

[@imho7250]

My guess is on the S/X, with 2 induction motors, of various power, it will choose front, rear or both as needed for efficiency, but the model 3 will be rear motor all the time with front motor only used for acceleration. And as mentioned you cant freewheel the PM motor without electrical drag, which is why they didn’t use 2 PMSR motors. Also, all those who were expecting the dual motor 3 to have better range will be disappointed, because the front motor can only add drag from the drivetrain losses without being able to make up for it by letting the rear motor freewheel and run the front motor under a higher load where is it more efficient. But Tesla has done a good job hiding that fact, and making it appear all the 75 kWh cars get 310 miles range, but the EPA let the cat out of the bag with their MPG-e rating. Now we just need someone to do some real world range tests.

[@berndm9411]

from what I have learned, the rear motor is a Permanent Magnet Switched Reluctance Motor. Sounds a litte complicated but you can look it up here: cleantechnica.com/2018/03/11/tesla-model-3-motor-in-depth/

[@PowerlabsDiesel]

Holy shit ! An oil filter !!

[@gerbertmorataya9636]

just read an update on this gen 2 drive units, changing oil type and maybe the process on how is serviced I think. Gearbox Fluid - Front Drive Unit (2nd Generation) (Drain and Refill) Correction Code 39300202 Revision History: • 2024-02-28: Updated gearbox fluid. Wondering why the change?

[@Ingineerix]

The reason is clearly spelled out in the service manual under fluids: "To reduce gearbox fluid variances and improve drive unit efficiency, service centers are to transition to KAF1 gearbox fluid for all vehicle drive units. When refilling or topping up drive unit gearboxes, first deplete supplies of the specified SK 212-B, ATF-9, and EDF2 gearbox fluids, and only then substitute with KAF1. KAF1 gearbox fluid is fully backwards compatible with the SK 212-B, ATF-9, and EDF2 gearbox fluids, and incidental mixing of the specified fluid with KAF1 is permitted. Eventually, service centers will only stock KAF1 fluid."

[@bradallen1832]

How are you? No public appearance on KZbin or TMC for a few months. I hope you're well!

[@Ingineerix]

Just busy working for a living! More vids soon!

[@KallMeKG]

Any chance Tesla could add the Performance software to a regular LR AWD? People say different inverters, different motors, etc. Tesla has been back and forth with their answers on this also.

[@Ingineerix]

Depending on when your car was built, maybe. Tesla will not do it, and you can't do it yourself. Advice: Sell it and buy a P3D. Even if you somehow got it done, you'd definitely lose your powertrain warranty. If you want to go this route, you'll save a bundle by selling this one and buying a salvage P3D. (What I did)

[@mct75]

That's really neat!

[@teslapilot3931]

Great video!

[@martincarrillo4720]

nice video. i just subscribed since i like your content. quick question do you think the rear motor could fit the front with minor fabrication?

[@Ingineerix]

No way, it's essentially "reversed" so wouldn't fit in the clearance provided.

[@mtd3358]

Great and awesome! Thanks! Is this now the performance with the additional performance upgrade package as well?

[@mcplutt]

nope

[@efuseakay]

Looks like the front sway bar may be easier to remove compared to the rear?

[@LuficariusRatspeed]

The front and rear inverters are not the same. They have different computers. Also, the drive units have the same gears for the front and back. The only major differences are the size and type of the rotors and stators. Also, i'm a little confused about what you're saying about the coolant cooling the front and back of the motor. There's two liquids. The blue stuff cools the inverter and it comes back out of the second inverter port. The other liquid is the transmission fluid and that stays in the gear box all the time. You said "inverter" twice. I think you meant stator

[@Ingineerix]

There is no "computer". The TMS320 Dual-core DSP ris on the inverter PCB and it runs the show. The difference is the firmware loaded onto this. When I say "front" and "back" I mean front drive unit and rear drive unit.

[@Matthewjo22]

Hi man I loved your video , just I have question have we can work on Tesla safe , how can I disable the height voltage for example when I replacing drive unite

[@Ingineerix]

If you disconnect the 12v power at the negative terminal and on S/X pull the first responder loop that will make the car safe. In 3, you have to disconnect the connector under the back seat, right side after removing 12v power.

[@GOVAUS1]

Did you remove the nut from that mount bolt @1:03? or is it just threaded through?

[@Ingineerix]

There is a weld nut on the subframe. (you can see it on the right)

[@oliverzahn6398]

Thanks for the great video. You previously suggested that the rear motor inverter of the performance supports higher current (800A) than that on the regular AWD (500A). Did I understand that correctly? If so, is that still your best guess?

[@misterg4059]

Can you do a segment on model 3 bumpers, I have seen reports of bumpers falling off in the rain.

[@Ingineerix]

This is BS. If you drive any modern car with a BUMPER COVER (not Bumper) through deep water at speed, the pressure is enormous due to the weight of the water X speed. Bumper covers on modern cars are a relatively thin polymer and can easily get torn off when you are talking thousands of pounds of pressure. The BUMPER is underneath this cover and of course does not get affected. I've only heard of 2 covers coming off, and both were driven though deep water flood conditions.

[@reviewcrewforyou]

Phil thanks so much for all the info you have given us and the video you did with rich. You talked about being able to control model 3 inverter/motor without the car as long as you had vsc(i think it was called) Is this board part of the other boards or separate? Does this mean it's totally possible to swap just battery modules,motor/inverter, pedal, brake switch? and control it with something else? What controller would work as an example soemthing like TC1 from ev controls? I thought it would be a while before being able to swap in model 3 drive units but that makes it sound possible. Thanks!!!

[@Ingineerix]

Yes, I have a controller that can be programmed to do any level of systems bypass. Contact me directly, my email is in the channel description.

[@danoberste8146]

Are the front springs really the same as the RWD? I can't remember where, but I saw an underside video of the RWD shortly after they came out that showed the springs were not on the forked riser like you showed. They were in the way of the path of a front axle and the commenter pointed out that they would have to move them to accommodate the front axles. Just curious. When did you get your RWD? Could it have been a later version than the ones that came out last year? BTW, thanks for the video!!!

[@stevedutcher3875]

Can you install a Bolt EV components into a Sprinter and convert it to electric with the 60kwh battery pack?

[@Ingineerix]

I'm sure it could be done, but I don't know anything about the Bolt. Significant reverse-engineering has to be done for such a project, so it really consumes a lot of time. I'm sure in time people will start working with Bolt systems....

[@Dr.Know_4U]

You say the front motor is AC induction? Wouldn't you expect three conductors for a three phase induction motor?

[@Ingineerix]

There are, keep in mind the inverter is integrated, so the 3 phase conductors pass inside the housing from the inverter side to the motor stator.

[@timothysuhr7903]

Off topic just a little. I have a Toyota Prius with a Hymotion kit. It needs to be repaired. Can your shop look at it?

[@Ingineerix]

No sorry, I don't have the time to take on something like that. Maybe contact Carolyn at Luscious Garage in SF or Jason at Argonaut Garage in Berkeley.

[@imho7250]

I hope you can get a non-performance AWD up on the lift soon to see if you can notice any visible signs of where the $10,000 was used, and what you would estimate the cost in parts to get an extra 100 kw from the battery to the pavement if you already have an AWD.

[@dani43321]

IMHO I'm fairly sure there is no difference. The cars are the same, it's all software.

[@imho7250]

Daniel Blanco, maybe that’s why they jacked up the price of the front motor to $5k without increasing the price of performance version. That would probably make the $54k AWD a better value, since later Tesla may offer uncorking. From a resale value, the derated AWD should hold value better than the one always pressed to the limits. Not only electrically, but also the reduction gear and bearings will last longer when only run at 80% peak torque.

[@Ingineerix]

Like most things in our world, when you opt for the top tier, you are mainly generating profit. Using my food analogy again, where is your $ going when you eat at a $250 a plate French restaurant when you can buy the ingredients for less than a tenth of that?

[@mcplutt]

The $10k is for you to be faster. It will last just as long for normal driving. Not everyone is flooring it all the time.

[@imho7250]

Svein Hanssen, this is your expert engineering analysis? So using the same logic, the non-performance AWD can use lighter duty components, since the power is only used occasionally, right? They can just use half-shafts and reduction gear from a BMW i3 and save some money, right? I’ll stick with my original analysis that derating the drive system will make it last longer, since that’s pretty much understood in engineering. If Tesla can use the same drivetrain components in a car which can do 0-60 in 3.5 seconds in a car that is limited to 0-60 in 4.5 seconds, that is the same as derating the drive train to 75%, and it will reduce failures caused by excess loading on gear teeth and bearings.

[@arthurchesteriii9671]

Awesome! - So with this car not having the upgraded calipers and wheel package, did it still come with the Dual Motor badge?

[@Ingineerix]

Yes, the owner had it removed though, as he wants stealth.

[@christianhunter460]

How do we contact you?

[@tonystark6263]

What city are you in?

[@christianhunter460]

@@tonystark6263 York, Pa. East coast. I am looking to buy a p85 and if it needs work I need a good place to send it.

[@tonystark6263]

@@christianhunter460 I was going to say try Rich rebuilds but you probably already know about him.

[@christianhunter460]

@@tonystark6263 Yes love his channel. The last video he did that featured you and the memory issue kinda put me off and if I have that issue I would want your support. Of you and rich are working together I will take it to him.

[@Ingineerix]

My email is in the channel information. I'm (currently) in Berkeley California (San Francisco area), but in progress of moving, but it will be somewhere relatively close by.

[@TomCameron]

If you live near Rich (Car Guru / Rich Rebuilds) and you haven't looked under a P3D+ by the time I get mine, I'd be willing to bring it by. But I assume by the time I get it you'll already have had a million offers or so.

[@Ingineerix]

I'm in Berkeley California, other side of the country from you guys. I do help Rich remotely with all his internal work, such as reflashing, etc. But thanks for the offer! If anyone else in the SF Bay Area wants to bring their 3 by with the performance options package, I'd love to see the differences.

[@dcsjyt]

Ingineerix So you’re Rich’s secret Tesla guy. Thats Awesome!! Now I understand why you seem very knowledgeable of all the inner workings. Absolutely love the up close videos and your excellent knowledge in explaining the internal workings. It really takes the mystery out the rolling tech. How is it that you have the ability to access the Service Maintenance and play with programing. Are you a Current or former Tesla software engineer? Side question. Are there under body closing panels to protect the drive units and sub frame from the elements?

[@RobertHutton]

He's outlined this before. Requires soldering work on the mainboard to access the restricted software areas.

[@Ingineerix]

No, I'm not an Ex-Tesla employee. They don't allow their employees to do stuff like this! It's not really feasible to access the service menus until such time as Tesla decides to open it up.

[@howeyman09]

The front motor is an induction machine, but the rear is a reluctance?

[@20karun]

howeyman09 its a permanent magnet synchronous machine. Smaller size for the same power but more expensive

[@Dave-ms1wi]

Does non performance and performance have the same motors?....if yes then difference is software?

[@taipoxin]

Same motors and battery, however it's been debated if the inverters or any other power related hardware are actually the same. Perhaps @Ingineerix could confirm the differences?

[@hotrail8295]

Not just software. Different inverter, and different spec rear motor. Also, the motors on the Performance editions are "burned in" for a longer period.

[@ShaunRF]

Btw, are the shocks Bilsteins? I hope so, since they are relatively easy to revalve and service.

[@Ingineerix]

I can find no indication of the manufacturer on the units. They have all Tesla markings.

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

They are almost certainly OEMed from Bilstein, Sachs, or some other standard German supplier, but that's speculation on my part.

[@puffpio]

Does the front driveshaft go *through* the front strut? Seems like they elongated the forked end of the strut to create a hole for the driveshaft?

[@Ingineerix]

Well, that's all semantics. But basically yes, either way a different part.

[@davidellison4750]

I too came from a Rich Rebuilds link. Regarding that memory chip that tends to fail with the constant writes, would it be possible to install a socket so the user could simply pop out the failed chip and pop in a new one every 4 years or so?

[@linemanap]

That was only on older model S cars they're replacing them with the latest mcu for around 2k

[@imho7250]

Another intriguing question you might see the answer to is why the 19” wheels aren’t available on the performance version, but are available on RWD and AWD version. Since this is a simple swap, unlike paint color, I can’t believe it’s connected to keeping it simple, so are these calipers slightly thicker such that the 19” wheels don’t clear? I thought Elon said even the base performance model would have better brakes. Any idea why Tesla wouldn’t offer something between the standard wheels and the $5000 package with 20” wheels?

[@pepstein]

IMHO the rotors are also larger, and that's probably why only 19 and 20 inch wheels fit.

[@Ingineerix]

It appears the 19" wheels may fit, but not the 18's. If you don't opt for the $5k performance options, you can get a car like the one I looked at in the video. Base wheels/brakes, but the same performance drive units.

[@imho7250]

Ingineerix, but you can order the 18” aero wheels with the $64k performance version, but can’t order the 19” wheels, only can jump up to 20” wheels included in the $5000 package. That was the confusing part because I would think some might want a $1500 solution.

[@xboxice2005]

Or is the oil in there to cool the gears,as in gear oil?

[@Ingineerix]

This is to make the Dexron VI that lubricates and cools the drive unit last a lot longer. If you remove the particulates, you have less wear on the mechanicals. This isn't an internal combustion engine with crazy thermal deltas and nasty carbon blow-by contaminating your lubricant. All heavy mechanical systems need lubrication to make sure they last. Tesla also uses this lubrication to cool the motor. (see my other videos for more info on cooling) Tesla says the lubricant is good for 250k miles.

[@xboxice2005]

Ingineerix make sense 🤙😎

[@timothyrichey12]

Looks great except for that oil pump power cord, to much slop. It needs another clip closer to the connection

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

Keep in mind, everything shown in the rear and front undersides are normally behind plastic covers. Those have been removed for the video. Only parts of the suspension are exposed normally.

[@Battlefresh]

I wish Tesla would allow non-performance dual motor owners upgrade to M3P power spec. They are mechanically identical so it could be an over the air software update. They could make some good money from it!

[@treborsirrah7916]

are they exposed wires at 2:28

[@Ingineerix]

Not really, as the entire bottom of the car is closed up. It's normal for wires to be "exposed" like this right before the connector, as this helps reduce stress on the terminations.

[@treborsirrah7916]

ok, thanks

[@uighkgui]

Hey Phil, do you think the tesla autopilot could be retrofitted into a different car? Would it work even though the sensors would be at different positions? Would they need to be recalibrated?

[@Ingineerix]

I don't think this is feasible. Look at CommaAI's solution if you want to roll you own.

[@uighkgui]

@@Ingineerix thx for the answer! I'm following Comma AI since the beginning already, but teslas auto pilot seems way more advanced in the meanwhile. Guess i will have to wait more then..

[@Ingineerix]

It would be a massive effort, likely on the order of thousands of hours of reverse-engineering and work. Custom controllers, etc. Then still without the source code, you'd still never get it to work right.

[@xboxice2005]

What's with the oil looking filter🤔

[@Ingineerix]

This is to make the Dexron VI that lubricates and cools the drive unit last a lot longer. If you remove the particulates, you have less wear on the mechanicals. This isn't an internal combustion engine with crazy thermal deltas and nasty carbon blow-by contaminating your lubricant. All heavy mechanical systems need lubrication to make sure they last. Tesla also uses this lubrication to cool the motor. (see my other videos for more info on cooling)

[@kellylyon6939]

So in your opinion, what are the chances of being able to upgrade a AWD to a Performance or offering some kind of performance increase for AWD cars? Seems like for the Performance upgrade all that is required is swapping out the rear inverter, but I'm not sure how involved that is.

[@Ingineerix]

Even if this is achievable, are you going to risk your drivetrain warranty? Maybe after 8 years I'll look into it.

[@taipoxin]

@@Ingineerix Can you atleast confirm if the inverters are different between 3D and P3D? This is a hotly debated question.

[@Dad-bl3ch]

how is the sprinter van project doing

[@Ingineerix]

This is what that project became: www.maxwellvehicles.com/ (But I intend on picking it back up soon once my new shop construction is finished)

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

Thanks so much. Is the blue and orange tape factory or yours? By "stabilizer" do you mean anti-roll bar? Not to be pedantic, but if so, would appreciate the correct term being used. Also I took Performance Model 3 with the Performance Upgrade option (performance wheels and tires, brake upgrade, etc.) for a test drive, and it is incredibly good. Feedback during near limit cornering is delicate and extremely communicative. The car is very controllable and easy to drive near the limits. At normal low power driving, the car moves incredibly effortlessly for anyone with performance driving experience. This is a superb car for someone who appreciates fine engineering. Drive one and see.

[@micmag2375]

Loanword Eggcorn stabilizer is a correct term where I come from

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

Agree there are different names for it, and it's important to have some agreement about names of things. If we mean the torsion spring that links the left and right suspension arms together to counteract roll, most engineering books I've read call those anti-roll bars. Sway bar is a common aftermarket name in the U.S. Stabilizer bar is another name, but my understanding is that anti-roll bar is the most technically accurate and is preferred.

[@Ingineerix]

Tesla's documentation calls it a "Stabar". Go figure. I've always known it to be a Stabilizer, but I agree;; anti-roll is a better descriptor.

[@imho7250]

Loanword Eggcorn, don’t forget “sway bar” and anti-sway bar”, which is what they called them back in the old days. LOL

[@izybit]

The tape hides the serial numbers for the video.

[@mleitner0]

Is the rear motor larger on the S loots the same but has a sport PN ? Any idea what it's maximum current draw is?

[@Ingineerix]

We are talking about 3 here, not S, but the rear inverter is tuned to 800A for performance, and only 500A for normal.

[@mleitner0]

Ingineerix sorry i did not proof read my msg... The question I was asking was did it have a sport PN or any that would make it different from the normal motor. The model S P serious has a sticker staying sport or preformace. Thanks for the reply.

[@aussie2uGA]

Interesting that in the S&X, I've always head they can pump 1500A for short periods (ludicrous). With the newer 2170 batteries, I'm thinking 800A is still probably very shy of what they could eventually feed the motor. Speculation here but something tells me if marketing allows it, all the dual motor cars could get much quicker in the future.

[@sooocheesy]

@@Ingineerix Any thoughts on the "the LR AWD just a software detuned Performance" debate?

[@ShaunRF]

Is the inverter on the rear motor actually physically different from the RWD model, or are there just higher software limits due to selecting the best from each batch and extra testing(double burn in quote from Elon)?

[@stevebakker6884]

Elon has indicated the latter. They're all the same, they just pick the 'best of the litter for P3D

[@ShaunRF]

That has been my supposition as well, just looking for physical confirmation.

[@Ingineerix]

I think the Performance 800A inverters are the same exact units used in the RWD drive units and in the front of the AWD cars, but they have better matching on the 6 groups of 4 SiC FETs so they can run overall higher current. Same parts, just better "binning" if you will. Since the FETs are in parallel groups of 4, if one has lower RDSon than the others, then it will take too much of the load. So if you can match them closely, they will share well and you can put more overall current through the group without danger of blowing one up.Don't take my word for it, Elon even tweeted it: twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998015873167208448?lang=en

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

Agree.

[@dani43321]

Ingineerix Do you think the AWD rear motor uses a different inverter? Also, unrelated: can you determine the "resolution" of the AC curve based on the number of FETs?

[@mohdysf]

Is it possible to remove the mcu without cooling system

[@Ingineerix]

It's called the "ICE" in the Model 3, and no, you do have to disconnect 2 coolant lines at the firewall. It's possible to do this with some silicone plugs and not make too much of a mess.

[@Nickrapper73]

Hi Ingineerix. I heared that in newer M3 from mid of this year there are build in a 990 DU. Older models have a 980 DU. Do you know the difference in between of that DU?

[@chowner]

So that's just a dual motor not a performance then?

[@thebungholebourbonlounge482]

So, there is oil in the cars? Has the twist off filters, do you have to change oil? Frequency?

[@mcplutt]

Rarely.

[@Ingineerix]

250,000 miles. Not Oil, but synthetic gear oil (Dexron VI).

[@jamesdougall]

Any chance you can flick the car into developer mode and see what limits the PCS and inverters are set to?

[@Ingineerix]

This wasn't my car, and there's no "flicking". It's a crazy process that involves soldering and there's no way I'm going to risk it on a car I don't own.

[@jamesdougall]

:) understood - I did see one of your previous comment re. having to solder things. Still great vid - interesting stuff. Cheers

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

The previous videos are from a Long Range single motor Model 3 that was a scrapped salvage car that was crashed. This is a different car.

[@jermainec2462]

wait ... oil pump ?and it that A black oil filter ? if so what does a tesla need with a oil and oil pumps ???

[@Ingineerix]

This is to make the Dexron VI that lubricates and cools the drive unit last a lot longer. If you remove the particulates, you have less wear on the mechanicals. This isn't an internal combustion engine with crazy thermal deltas and nasty carbon blow-by contaminating your lubricant. All heavy mechanical systems need lubrication to make sure they last. Tesla also uses this lubrication to cool the motor. (see my other videos for more info on cooling) Tesla says the lubricant is good for 250k miles.

[@jermainec2462]

Ingineerix well damn I learn something new everyday ... Always thought the unit was cooled by air alone ... That's good thx for the info

[@russr1123]

What are your thoughts on efficient between the RWD and AWD. Specifically, how do they claim the same range.

[@Ingineerix]

The AWD is only slightly less efficient than RWD. I think the difference will be lost in the noise. A temperature difference of 1 degree colder will probably make AWD the same range as RWD.

[@russr1123]

Ingineerix thanks for your response. How is the AWD slightly less efficient than the rwd when on the model S, the opposite is true?

[@portlandcurry]

If it has an oil pump, why doesn’t it need regular oil changes?

[@WANDERER0070]

Portland Curry Im guessing the oil doesnt deteriorate like in ICEngine,,theres not even a transmision here just a diferential with gears...even regular cars or trucks dont need to change oil in diferential rear end,,unless maybe you drive in deep water and contaminate the oil..I wonder how well this cars motor is sealed

[@Pikminiman]

It filters metal particulates, is changed every 100k miles or so, and the oil never has to be changed.

[@Ingineerix]

I've answered this about 100 times now, please look at the other comments and expand the answers.

[@portlandcurry]

Ingineerix Surprised you’d take the time to write this response at all. Seems like you coulda just answered the question and then saved from sounding a little terse. Sorry to waste your time. Also, I take exception to the titles of your videos. By revealing the truth you imply there are lies. But your videos are scientific and engineering based. Kinda misleading don’t you think? Why such shocking titles. Fake news. That being said, I really liked the videos. Just seems like you might be a little burnt.

[@V10PDTDI]

No new video updates ?

[@Ingineerix]

Soon!

[@Kirkbdavis]

@1:12 if you listen closely, you can here Elon cawing in the background

[@Darktitan665]

If I decided I wanted to make my RWD model 3 an AWD model 3 (I might move further up north where there is snow in several years) could I purchase the cost of the other motor and have them install it? Or no because they'd have to poke new holes in the battery pack and that's a no no?

[@Ingineerix]

Never going to happen. Lots of changes, so the cost of labor/parts exceeds the difference in value. Sell it, buy AWD.

[@TheBiotour]

@@Ingineerix what all parts are required besides front shocks, front motor, half shafts, harness, power cable, cooling? Lets say 5 years from now parts are a lot cheaper, warranty is expired, and software can still be cracked. this HAS to be possible to do. and im sure labor isnt as hard as doing the equivalent to an ice vehicle.

[@figueroaj3ify]

Excellent work, keep it up. Would you ever work on Fiat 500e?

[@Ingineerix]

Outside of my own, I really don't touch other people's cars physically. I only help people with diagnostics and that sort of thing. My day job is as an Engineering Consultant. Sorry, I really know nothing about Fiat's systems, so I would be a poor choice.

[@figueroaj3ify]

@@Ingineerix Good to know, thank you responding and for sharing thy knowledge.

[@marc_benton]

Since the inverter and rear motors are the same as the RWD, would it be really difficult to mount a front motor in a RWD car and change the software in order for it to work?

[@GeraldMMonroe]

Where would you get a front motor from? It's probably possible, but you would somehow need the software image for the key systems that are different, and a source for a front motor. Tesla won't sell one as it's a HV component, so you maybe could get it from a totaled M3.

[@marc_benton]

Gerald Monroe yes, I was thinking you could get a wrecked one (eventually).

[@Ingineerix]

It's possible, but you'd have to change the hubs, the struts, the wiring harnesses, and have root access to flash the software and enable the front drive unit. You are better off paying Tesla for the upgrade.

[@ClockworksOfGL]

Marc Benton - You wouldn’t gain much, at least in terms of mileage. Tesla uses induction in the front because a) They’re capable of huge power output for short periods of time, and b) There’s almost no drag in low/power situations. Basically, they’d use the more efficient rear motor for everyday driving and tap into the front induction motor when the car needs it. Otherwise, that front motor is basically hanging around doing nothing. The rear motor (with its permanent magnets) doesn’t have that ability. If it’s spinning, there’s power being moved around. It’s a smart design for an AWD vehicle. And I didn’t even answer your question, so there’s that....

[@L3uX]

Ingineerix For hub, which part are you talking about? The knuckles are the same. Wiring Harness wise, is there a secondary wiring harness one would have to change or are you talking about HV? Also, cooling system to the superbottle (cooling unit) routing would need to be changed from what I’ve seen.

[@keeshaasnoot]

Any news about the air suspension?

[@Ingineerix]

I have not taken a car with it apart. Send one over and I will! =)

[@mcplutt]

No Model 3 SAS until 2019.

[@hotrail8295]

@@mcplutt - and not even now - 2019..

[@HodgePodgeProducts]

Doesn't the rotor need to be cooled in induction motors?

[@stevebakker6884]

It gets hot. He did indicate cooling lines going through the front motor

[@HodgePodgeProducts]

More specifically, I mean the S and X had cooling problems with their induction motors preventing them from doing well on the track. But the 3 doesn't seem to have that issue so I'm wondering how they are cooling this one so much better.

[@Ingineerix]

The rear motor is not induction, so no heat in the rotor. See my other videos and read the descriptions and comments where I explain this.

[@HodgePodgeProducts]

Ingineerix Yes, but the front one is so it should have the same issue, no?

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

The front motor does about half the work of the rear motor. Yes, the front motor is induction and will heat more, but it also does much less work than the rear reluctance motor. Any excess motor heat at front will matter less than the heat of the rear induction motors in Models S and X. And yes, all of the motors are liquid cooled.

[@lauril1377]

No new videos planned?

[@Ingineerix]

Yes! What would you like to see/learn?

[@lauril1377]

@@Ingineerix Just discovered this channel today and watched through most videos. Have my Model 3 ordered in Europe and waiting for something else than top-spec version coming... Noticed you hadn't uploaded anything for months. I hope you're doing new videos just like these! The developer-menu video was very interesting, didn't see that info on forums yet (haven't searched for). I enjoy your comments as you know what you're talking about. Many car-enthusiasts can't go too much into electrical details without speaking nonsense ;) Keep up the good work! Idea - developer menu values during driving. To get a better understanding of why regen is limited sometimes (cold battery) and what are the actual values (reverse engineering Tesla values and thresholds)

[@DocLulzson]

Anyone ever tried to get a Tesla system image running in a VM yet?

[@Ingineerix]

Yes, I've done it. Doesn't get you much without the rest of the car.

[@andyfeimsternfei8408]

What's your background?

[@Ingineerix]

Electrical Engineer

[@andyfeimsternfei8408]

@@Ingineerix Automotive?

[@Ingineerix]

I have worked in many fields, and presently run an engineering consultancy.

[@andyfeimsternfei8408]

@@Ingineerix Cool, looks like your having fun. I enjoy your work with Tesla. I have worked for many years in electrical and mechanical engineering. A lot of work with VFDs. Amazing what you can do with an electric motor! Thanks for the show.

[@jptrainor]

The front suspension has two lower ball joints. That's unusual. Does anyone know why?

[@jptrainor]

I sorted it out. It moves the center of rotation out thus reducing the scrub radius (to zero?).

[@sagarmeena0210]

man Tesla technology is out of this world

[@kevinwiltshire2217]

Nikola Tesla that's what everyone thinks buts it's not

[@sagarmeena0210]

if you think its so easy why not lets start our own company...partnership, lol

[@mcplutt]

It's not out of this world, but it's the first in this world.

[@sagarmeena0210]

Agree...Tesla has started the BEV industry and now leading it.